[AccessD] Slashdot: SQL vs Access for Learning Database Concepts?

Susan Harkins ssharkins at bellsouth.net
Fri Dec 12 12:04:13 CST 2003


If the person being trained is going to be so involved with the data that
they need to write SQL statements, then Access probably isn't the best tool.
There's SQL and then there's Jet SQL, Transact-SQL, Oracle SQL, and on and
on. You wouldn't use Oracle to teach someone Transact-SQL, so why use
Access?

On the other hand, an .adp file uses Transact-SQL against SQL Server tables.
In addition, the objects are very similar to those in SQL Servers -- views,
stored procedures, etc. are all used in SQL Server, but not the traditional
mdb file. So, using an .adp file would work very well in a training
environment, I would think.

Susan H.


> IMHO, the Access query designer is a rotten way to teach someone how to
> write SQL code.  I have developed Access apps for 8 years now, and I still
> cannot get more than 2 tables to join without using the QBE grid.  For
> example (using the Northwind database), if I wanted to join the Orders
table
> to the Order Details and Employees tables in Transact SQL, it would look
> like:
>
> ---
> SELECT Orders.*
> FROM Orders
> INNER JOIN [Order Details]
> ON [Order Details].[Order ID] = Orders.[Order ID]
> INNER JOIN Employees
> ON Employees.[Employee ID] = Orders.[Employee ID]
> ---
>
> Simple, intuitive, easy to learn.  In fact, I wrote that snippet just now
in
> this email because it is so simple to do.
>
> Access, however, looks like (taken directly from the QBE grid contents):
> ---
> SELECT Orders.*
> FROM Employees
> INNER JOIN (Orders
> INNER JOIN [Order Details]
> ON Orders.[Order ID] = [Order Details].[Order ID])
> ON Employees.[Employee ID] = Orders.[Employee ID];
> ---
>
> How the h*ll are you supposed to teach the rules of this join syntax to
> someone just learning SQL?  You could spend weeks just teaching them the
> various Jet engine rules for bracket placement!
>
> When I took SQL Server in college, we didn't have any visual design tools
to
> use, just the query analyzer.  Students completely new to SQL in general
> were writing complex queries after the first day!
>
> OTOH, the Access QBE grid is far more useful than the one in Enterprise
> Manager, which is a good thing since I need to use it for virtually all of
> my Access queries.  Whereas I tend to manually type 90% of my SQL Server
> queries in the query analyzer.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research
> [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil]
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:22 AM
> To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'
> Subject: [AccessD] Slashdot: SQL vs Access for Learning Database
> Concepts?
>
>
> This was posted on Slashdot last night.  I'm sure some of the folks on
here,
> (like maybe Susan Harkins, Martin Reid, and John Colby), might have an
> interesting opinion about whether or not Access is a good "training
vehicle"
> for
> learning SQL.
>
>
>
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/11/1811206&mode=thread&tid=146&
> tid=
> 185&tid=99
>
> P.S.  About midway down in the reader postings, there are links to several
> articles comparing the pros and cons of Access [SQL] to other SQL
products.
>
>
> Alan C. Lawhon
>
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