[AccessD] OT: the "Education" system

Jim Lawrence (AccessD) accessd at shaw.ca
Thu Jun 12 21:07:06 CDT 2003


My father had a fairly different view of the world, from many here. Real
men, didn't work in offices they built and fixed things. There were men with
trades and then there were 'whimps'. He working in construction all his
life, ran his own construction company until he retired and was proud of his
superiority. A sort of inverse snobbery. :-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:56 AM
To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'
Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system


I wasn't even taking gender into account.  I have seen both men and women
'bow' to someone with a degree.  I know I am a little stubborn <evilgrin>,
but I stick to my guns with what I know.

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: Wortz, Charles [mailto:CWortz at tea.state.tx.us]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:22 AM
To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system


Drew,

I think it is a cultural thing.  Many women are trained from childhood
to be submissive.  Thus, unless they get assertiveness training, or have
made a significant accomplishment such as getting a degree, they tend to
be submissive as adults.

Charles Wortz
Software Development Division
Texas Education Agency
1701 N. Congress Ave
Austin, TX 78701-1494
512-463-9493
CWortz at tea.state.tx.us



-----Original Message-----
From: Drew Wutka [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com]
Sent: Thursday 2003 Jun 12 11:11
To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'
Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system

Interesting.

I have never really felt 'downhill' though.  In fact, many times I feel
like I am uphill from people with degrees, because I see the solution,
and they are flapping in the wind.  Oh well.

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: Tina Norris Fields [mailto:tinanfields at torchlake.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 6:59 AM
To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system


Martin, you may have to go get that degree, just to shut them up.

After some 14 years of experience as an export manager, with a side
interest in office automation and the stuff that supports it, I one day
found myself needing a new job.  I had no degree, just knowledge.  I had

come from the midwest, where "equivalent experience" was a qualifier for

those without the academic credentials.  But, I was in New England
(Boston, to be exact), and "equivalent experience" carried no weight
whatsoever.  I actually got turned down for a position where the only
other candidate was a recent graduate with a degree and no experience -
degree NOT in international trade or business, by the way.  The
interviewer said:  "I couldn't justify choosing you over a degreed
person."  Wow!  I did go back to school at New Hampshire College (now
Southern New Hampshire University) and got my degree in Business and
Computer Science.  Now, I teach adults how to use computers - from the
complete "newbie" who doesn't know where the ON switch is, to folks
wanting to learn any of the Microsoft Office Suite programs.  I also
develop Access database applications and stuff for private clients.
 It's fun.

The thing that really surprised me was that after I had my degree, I
felt different in those meetings with other staff.  I hadn't realized
that I had felt "down hill" from everybody before the degree - but I did

notice the change in my level of confidence once I was wearing my gold
key (yes Summa Cum Laude - motivation is a wonderful thing).  So, in
your "free" time, Martin, why not enroll in a college or university that

offers a complete degree in your area of interest via the Internet?
 When you get your gold key, those pompous jerks will have to shut up.

My local college hired me from time-to-time as adjunct faculty when they

needed my knowledge and they couldn't get anyone with the academic
credentials to teach the class (summers, especially).  I still work as a

contract instructor for the Extended Education Services division of the
college - teaching adults who really want to know the stuff.

Tina
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