MartyConnelly
martyconnelly at shaw.ca
Sat Mar 1 11:40:01 CST 2003
Doesn't anyone use tire chains anymore, they have quick strap ons now, not the old leather belt strap ons. They won't let you over some passes at times in washington state without them. Worthwhile in winter to keep a set in the trunk, along with a big bag of kitty litter, shovel,space blankets and a couple of candles. Kitty litter provides better traction than salt (salt only works at certain temperatures) and a 30 lb bag gives a little extra rearend traction. Candles (windows cranked down slightly) when lit will keep the internal heat in a car slightly above freezing even at 30 below so you don't have to run out of gas keeping the car heated or even worse if the exhaust gets plugged by snow. Drew Wutka wrote: >Maybe it's the weight distribution of that Caprice that makes it feel much >better on the ice. I spent some time in Idaho...early driving years...which >definitely gets the winter roads. In fact, the truck I had then was a >snowplow for most of it's life...however, the guy I bought it from put a >brand new engine in it, along with all sorts of other tweaks...including >putting 38" Mudders (can't remember the brand anymore) on. Man, I loved >that truck. It got great traction in the mud (obviously), pretty good on >road, excellent off road, and snow wasn't too bad either. But ice and >rain...LOOK OUT! (I usually drove my roommates car in the icy weather, >because those mudders had close to 0 traction on ice.). When I moved to >california later with that truck, that's when I learned how horrible mudders >do in wet weather (well wet with a little sprinkling of engine oil) <VBG>. > >I have to admit my current 'new(er)' car has a decent traction system, Front >wheel drive, and it drive quite nicely with this weeks weather. Though it's >a small 'mid sized' car, and the Caprice is a monster car. So even though >both handle themselves well, I would have still have prefered driving my >Caprice...with that much more room and steel between me and the other >'drivers'. > >Personally, I swore I would never live in a 'hot' state (not after 2 tours >in the Persian Gulf....inside an engine room....) I wanted to stay in >Washington...but somehow fate kicked me to Dallas...go figure! > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: Henry Simpson [mailto:hsimpson88 at hotmail.com] >Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 10:46 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday: Ice Adventure! > > >With boats the steering is generally done at the propulsion end. Same is >true of most jet propelled aircraft. How many semi tractor trailers have >propulsion at the back trailer wheels. You really can't compare apples and >marshmallows or cars and ski doos. > >Where I live we often have snow for six months of the year. Generally >speaking, it is far more important to be able to stop or turn than to >accelerate. Traction at the drive wheels in the direction of propulsion is >necessary for getting in motion but, like flying, if you can't land, then >you had better not be taking off. > >Where the rubber meets the road is the prime consideration. Proper tires >will give you traction forward, backwards and lateral. Any attempt to >exceed the coefficient of friction will yeild a skid. If this happens while > >a vehicle is in motion in a turn, that end of the vehicle where traction is >lost will slip sideways with the centrifugal aceleration. If it's rear >wheel drive, the back whips around since the lateral forces are in addition >to the propulsive forces and they exceed forces on the passive wheels. Once > >the skid starts, the motion is lateral to the direction of travel and after >it exceeds 10 or 15 degrees, there is progressively less chance of stopping >the skid by steering into it. > >On a front drive vehicle, it is trivial to regain control. The centrifugal >forces slide the front end of the car in its direction of travel. The car >doesn't turn as well but you don't need to turn into the skid nearly as much > >as with a rear drive vehicle to maintain control. Sure you're going to >drift wide of your intended course but the same is even more true of a rear >wheel drive vehicle. In either case, if you have better tires, it benefits >both front and rear drive vehicles. > >One additional factor which makes all the difference in getting a car in >motion is the fact that the weight distribution of rear drive and front >drive cars is such that front wheel drives have, in the vast majority of >cases, a greater proportion of the weight over the drive wheels. The 50/50 >of a BMW is brilliant for dry pavement high G manouvering but in snow, the >61/39 of a VW Golf means that when acceleration is traction limited, with >equal tires, the Golf is going to leave the BMW in the flurries. The old >Beetles with their rear engine rear drive were acceleration monsters but, >that heavy rear end was a weather vane in a skid. Don't be going there. > >I've driven front and rear drive cars and my current commuter vehicle has 4 >wheel drive capability. When it gets real slick, I get out and lock the >front hubs. The last time I engaged them during a commute was last winter. > >I find that the biggest advantage of driving in 4wd mode is that I can get >out of the way of all the incompetent drivers. Although 4 times 0 traction >is 0 acceleration, 4 times 20 foot pounds acceleration is double 2 times 20 >foot pounds. A four wheel drive can out accelerate and out climb any two >wheel drive vehicle with similar tires. In a skid you get a relatively >controllable four wheel drift and, if you have a manual transmission, you >have very smooth engine braking signficantly superior to that which you get >with an automatic. Absolute best is AWD with electronic traction control >(braking on spinning wheels). I've driven for over 33 years of 6 month >winter and have never had a traction loss induced accident. The most >driving fun I ever had was an 81 Tercel front drive sub compact. In reverse > >at speed, blip the throttle when you haul on the wheel and the heavy front >weather vanes around like an arrow. Hit the clutch and throw her into 2nd >and you're off like a bullet in exactly the direction you were headed in >reverse. Going forward, haul on the park brake and your back will whip any >direction you please because your front wheels are still pulling and in >control. Great for sliding sideways into that parking spot that you >couldn't parallel park into. > >The worst snow drivers I ever met are warm climate immigrants who grew up >without learning to drive until later in life. Next are people who lack >winter driving experience. I remember driving through northern California >and once over Denver. The roads were closed because people were all over >the road, in ditches and slid against guard rails on those fancy steep >banked mountain roads. In Denver, we told them we're from Canada and they >let us pass through after turning around several thousand cars. In >California, I just ran the road block because they insisted we put on chains > >and I didn't have any and have never had the need for them driving a >passenger vehicle. It was no worse than conditions we experience driving >across town several months of every year. I suppose they truly believed >they were saving us from certain death but I couldn't allow myself to be >governed by a bunch of misguided lunatics. I'm very pleased not to be in >the DFW region this week because it would have seriously tried my patience. > >Hen > > > > >>From: Drew Wutka <DWUTKA at marlow.com> >>Reply-To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>To: "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday: Ice Adventure! >>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:53:40 -0600 >> >>I live in Mckinney, and work in Dallas, so I know what you are talking >>about. I drove home Monday night at around 1 am. It took over 2 hours to >>get home, however, at least most of the road was 'ice chunks', it hadn't >>glazed over yet. >> >>However, one thing is for sure, Texans don't know how to drive in rain, >>snow, or ice. Especially ice. Somehow, a texan in a 4WD vehicle thinks >>they have more traction by having four wheel drive. Not quite, you just >>have a vehicle that has 4 powered wheels with no traction! <VBG> I even >>heard a newsperson tell people that they better use front wheel drive >>vehicles. Why? Have you even seen a snow mobile with it's 'skis' in the >>back? No, the tread is in the back, and the skis are up front steering. >>When you have slippery terrain, the last thing you want is the 'turning' >>mechanism trying to 'pull' your vehicle. That just causes your back wheels >>to spin out behind you. You need a rear wheel drive vehicle, that is >>pushing your front wheels/skis. >> >>Just my observation. I stayed home Tuesday, spending most of the day >>badgering my DSL company...hehehehe Then Wednesday I had to find a doctor >>who was open, so I could get a sinus infection cleared up. Hot cold hot >>cold...means Drew is gonna have his teeth hurting from a sinus infection! >><VBG> >> >>I must say, I will treasure Tuesday for some time to come. My 4 year old >>daughter and I went to check our mail (which is up a pretty big hill....) >>on >>Tuesday, and she just had the time of her life slipping and sliding all >>over >>the ice (none of her shoes have 'rugged' soles, they're all pretty 'flat', >>I >>have a good pair of hiking sneakers with almost cleat like tread.). Not >>too >>mention I ice skated a lot as a kid, and my late teens (bet none of you >>knew >>I got 2 silver medals for figure skating in the junior olympics (I think it >>was in Calgary...but I was between 8 and 10, so geography wasn't my strong >>point then.....)). >> >>Personally, I think the snow storm was a plot to keep me from getting my >>flat screen monitor this weekend. (It is now 'marked' for Monday). It was >>probably sitting on I-35 since Tuesday......it better not have cracked in >>the cold! <VBG> >> >>Drew >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Elam, Debbie [mailto:DElam at jenkens.com] >>Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 6:05 PM >>To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' >>Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday: Ice Adventure! >> >> >>Since it is Friday, I thought all of you might be entertained by my ice >>storm mishaps. >> >>As many of you probably heard, Monday night the DFW area was hit with a >>winter mix storm. This one was almost entirely sleet, but enough freezing >>rain to weld it together and give it a slick crust. >> >>I have a VBA training class this week. The trainer came into town for this >>week only so there was no way to make the class up. I was determined then >>to make it in to work despite the ice. >> >>Tuesday morning was not bad in spite of the layer of ice on the streets. >>Only a few spots were so slippery that driving slow was not enough to >>compensate. I drove to the park and ride and got on the bus and made it in >>just about double normal driving time. Coming home was a different story. >> >>First, I arrived at the bus stop around 5:00. Another woman had been >>waiting since 4:00, but no busses had come by. She called Dart (Dallas >>Area >>Rapid Transit) and discovered there were fewer than normal busses due to >>driver absences and the first bus had gotten stuck on another street. >>Eventually the bus after showed up. We got stuck with the wheels spinning >>a >>couple of times in downtown, but the driver managed to get us started again >>in a few minutes. >> >>On the freeway home, 3 18 wheelers had slid slightly sideways and one after >>the other blocking the entire freeway. Forced to exit we got stuck on the >>service road. A roving band of helpful men were walking the area with >>shovels and broke the ice under the wheels of our bus and other stuck >>vehicles. We were on the way again. >> >>We stopped again when the driver realized the side street she had chosen >>ran >>through a large gully. The bus would never had made it up the other side. >>Turning around was hampered by drivers going ahead of the bus then behind >>it, then ahead. Because of this we were stuck across several lanes or >>traffic when letting us go would have gotten us out of everyone's way in 5 >>minutes if traffic had stopped for us. >> >>Once turned around we make good progress for awhile. Then about 2 miles >> >> >>from the park and ride we come upon a handicap bus stuck near the top of a > > >>low incline. Breaking our momentum was deadly we got stuck at the bottom. >>I considered walking to the park and ride, but did not get desperate enough >>to do it until we had been there for nearly 2 hours. At this point my >>normally less than 1 hour bus ride had taken over 5 hours. >> >>I bailed from the bus, intending to walk to the park and ride and get my >>truck. It was slippery enough I chose to walk in the grass. It was harder >>and I had to stomp a little to break through the ice crust, but I only fell >>down twice. >> >>On the walk I encountered cars that had either slid into drainage ditches, >>or were unable to get enough traction to move every 200 yards or so. This >>was demoralizing enough that I decided, if I tried to drive home, I would >>end up abandoning the truck or sleeping in it. The park and ride was a >>much >>better place to abandon and I decided to try to walk the rest of the way >>home. Unfortunately this is another 5 miles. Do-able, but tough. >> >>I called Hunter to tell him of my decision. He talked about coming to get >>me, but we discarded that idea since he would likely just end up abandoning >>or wrecking our other car too. Then he realized we have an ATV that could >>make the short trip if anything could. We agreed to meet partway. He had >>one bad spot getting to me. He yielded to a truck coming the other >>direction (it needed the momentum a lot more than the ATV) and ended up >>sliding into a ditch that was deep enough to have liquid water in it. So >>Hunter, rather wet and cold by that time, finds me at the agreed meeting >>place. I get on the back of the ATV, hold on tight and see a blur because >>my helmet visor fogs up. we make it home with no more incident, just a few >>slightly slippery corners. We made it home about 1:00 AM. >> >>To top all of this off, I had lost my voice due to the crud going around, >>and I was hacking up some really disgusting stuff. Everyone was very >>concerned that I had gotten too cold while walking, but actually I was too >>hot. The stomping gait was so energetic that I was sweating for much of >>the >>walk. The only really cold part was on the ATV. For the most part, the >>drive just cooled me down to normal. There was ice on the back of the seat >> >> >>from the storm and my rear melted it during the drive. Needless to say > > >>this >>got my rear soaked and THAT was cold. >> >>I did not even attempt to leave the house until 5:00 PM the next day when >>we >>could finally see the road where the 34 degree temperatures and a little >>traffic had melted it. The driveway still nearly trapped us though. >> >>I found out yesterday that the bus never made it to the park and ride. >>They >>got out of the spot where they were stuck, but had to turn around and only >>got a little closer before they gave up at 11:00. A few brave souls gave >>the others rides the rest of the way to the park and ride. everyone I >>spoke >>to had not made it home in their cars. They had to abandon them along the >>way as they got stuck too. One woman nearly slid into a creek, and >>abandoned the car rather than take the chance of sliding off the bridge >>while she tried to get unstuck. She had a tow-truck pull it to a melted >>spot late Wednesday and drove it home then. >> >>Debbie >> >> >>- JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject >>to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) >>strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this >>message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. >>If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender >>(only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is >>a >>violation of federal criminal law. >> >> This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the >>sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement >>by electronic means. 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