Drew Wutka
DWUTKA at marlow.com
Fri Mar 28 13:57:00 CST 2003
Go for it. Keep one thing in mind, when you take on a development project, be it a full time or contract position. There is ALWAYS a way to do something, and, more importantly, there is usually a better way too!<grin> What I mean by that, is that when you walk into a situation where you are saying 'I am here to do yadda yadda', you MUST extrude the confidence that you can do whatever is asked of you, and that you know the best way to do it. That is the beauty of resources like the List. Just knowing about the List gives you the backing needed to follow through with claims of 'guru-ness'. If we (as a group) can't solve a problem, I quite frankly would be flabbergasted! <grin> Drew -----Original Message----- From: Hollis,Virginia [mailto:HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:28 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: RE: Re[2]: [AccessD] OT:Building your business was... Rate for fi rsttime Well, I don't make anywhere even near 40K a year. That is very interesting to know, how underpayed I really am and what they are getting for next to nothing :-(. I have a degree and some experience - so I fit somewhere in between, I do not have the experience most have on the list. My databases all turn out to be very similar. I am going to do the job as a contractor, it will be nights & weekends. Still need to discuss the pay with the company - this has been a big help. I especially liked the (Virgin comment & I am "cheap" LOL) I really got a good laugh out of that :-). When I got my personalized license plates I wanted my name on the plate - well Virginia was too many characters - sure didn't want to abbreviate and use "Virgin". Anyway, this is a big step for me. Like Ron, there is always that worry of messing up or running into a problem I can't solve. It is different developing where I work full time, I am here to fix the problems or even add new features the user wants. Still undecided on the fee - thinking somewhere in the 25-35 range or a bit higher for negotiating purposes, sure not 10.00! Like someone suggested, start high & negotiate from there. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hshhp.org] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 5:34 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: Re[2]: [AccessD] OT:Building your business was... Rate for firsttime >>times are tough right now << Very true. We just hired a junior level Access developer (job was posted on Hotjobs.com) and I got resumes from all over the world and from every kind of over qualified person (Masters in CS, Project mgrs with 10+ yrs. experience, experienced web developers, etc.). But it truly depends on where you're living. Here in NYC area that's a starting salary at junior level and maybe a bit low at that. If you want to do consulting you really have no choice except to jump right in do you? Unless you can find work on someone else's project to get some experience. Concern yourself with what you already know how to do and how that can help the prospective client. If a client asks for something you don't know you can tell them you'll research what it takes to to what they need. If your research tells you you can do it great, if not let them know up front. HTH, Jim DeMarco Director of Product Development HealthSource/Hudson Health Plan > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:50 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: Re[2]: [AccessD] OT:Building your business was... Rate for firsttime > > Ron, > > Compensation (in which I include salary) depends very much on where > you are. Places like NYC or San Francisco command as much as 50% > higher salary than other lower cost areas. > > That said, you'd have to be in a low cost area for $40k to be a good > salary for the job description you quoted. That said, times are tough > right now which means that lots of people with your qualifications (or > better) are unemployed and willing to take jobs at less that they > would have 2 years ago. > > When I got to Connecticut I "accepted" a job at $60k with a > description similar to what you describe. That was at the low end. In the boonies in Alabama or the likes that would probably have been in the stratosphere. As my brother-in-law said (in the suburbs around Nashville) - making $60 k a year (which he was) he was up there with the doctors and lawyers. > > One way or the other, 40K is probably low during good times. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ron Allen > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:32 PM > To: Jim Hewson > Subject: Re[2]: [AccessD] OT:Building your business was... Rate for > first time > > > JH> I work for a company that contracts my database development > JH> services to clients. My rates to develop Access databases range > JH> from $65 to $125 per hour depending on the location of the > JH> customer (San Antonio vs DC), location of the work (customer site > JH> vs my office) and complexity of the project. I can assure you, I > JH> do not get the full amount. Most of database developers (Oracle, Access, SQL Server, etc.) are salaried. > > I have a couple of questions in this thread. > > First, I am a salaried developer. I work with SQL Server, Oracle, > Access, Visual Basic, and do all kinds of incidental but necessary > stuff too (DOS batch files, UNIX shell scripts, manual and other > writing, even some very basic graphics work for manual illustration > screen shots and program icons and such). I have an excellent health > benefits package, dental plan, vision plan, pension plan, 401K, and > yearly cost of living raises plus yearly profit-based bonuses. I work > a base 37.5 hours per week, and receive either comp time or time and a > half at my employer's discretion for any hours beyond that in any > given week. I don't want to quote my actual salary quite so > publically, but let's assume for argument's sake that its about > $40K/yr. I feel I am doing very well for a self-taught programmer > with> > no degree who turned his hobby into a profession, but I have > sometimes wondered where that salary range, all things being equal, > falls for positions of this type. I'm very happy where I'm at, but > when speaking to others I sometimes get the feeling that I'm underpaid > and sometimes get the impression that I'm overcompensated. It would be > nice to have some solid idea. > > Second, I have considered attempting some consulting work on the side. > I understand the need to decide on a reasonable rate and then stick by > it. What I have concerns about is, what happens when a client needs > something that I don't know how to do without learning first or > (shudder) what happens if I screw something up? I'm a little dual > personality about my skills; I'm proud that I'm come as far as I have > with no formal training and no credentials, but it also causes me to > think twice about trying independent work. So the question is, I'm > actually pretty good, but am I good enough? How do you tell, other > than by jumping in? Should that affect the rate at all? > > Thanks for any considered response. > > Ron > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Is email taking over your day? Manage your time with eMailBoss. > Try it free! http://www.eMailBoss.com << File: ATT281399.txt >> ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from HealthSource/Hudson Health Plan (HS/HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. 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