From lawhonac at hiwaay.net Sun Aug 1 01:11:40 2004 From: lawhonac at hiwaay.net (lawhonac) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 01:11:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition Message-ID: I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Aug 1 05:04:04 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 12:04:04 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Hide Autonumber In-Reply-To: <001101c476f0$f73d6100$3664fea9@OneVoiceLaptop> References: <001101c476f0$f73d6100$3664fea9@OneVoiceLaptop> Message-ID: <1594208000.20040801120404@cactus.dk> Hi Stephen > Does someone know how to format an autonumber field so that the text > (autonumber) is not visible? 1. Rename the textbox with the Autonumber to something else than the ID field, say txtID. 2. Adjust the ControlSource of txtID to the an expression with the ID field: =[ID] 3. Set the format of txtID to Number. Now txtID is "true Null" when Autonumber is Null. /gustav From snegus at ovasia.org Sun Aug 1 09:23:53 2004 From: snegus at ovasia.org (Stephen Negus) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 22:23:53 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] Hide Autonumber References: <001101c476f0$f73d6100$3664fea9@OneVoiceLaptop> <1594208000.20040801120404@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000d01c477d3$2cdd9360$3664fea9@OneVoiceLaptop> That works. Thanks Gustav. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Hide Autonumber > Hi Stephen > > > Does someone know how to format an autonumber field so that the text > > (autonumber) is not visible? > > 1. Rename the textbox with the Autonumber to something else than the > ID field, say txtID. > > 2. Adjust the ControlSource of txtID to the an expression with the ID > field: > > =[ID] > > 3. Set the format of txtID to Number. > > Now txtID is "true Null" when Autonumber is Null. > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Aug 1 10:59:05 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:59:05 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk Message-ID: <1722473356.20040801175905@cactus.dk> Couldn't someone get this address off the list? Every time I post something to the list, I receive back two messages like this, first with a "delay" then with a "failure": --- This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, due to being unable to connect successfully to the destination mail server. meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk --- From bheid at appdevgrp.com Sun Aug 1 13:39:19 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 14:39:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3091BE0A@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB6F4@ADGSERVER> I was wondering where these were coming from. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk Couldn't someone get this address off the list? Every time I post something to the list, I receive back two messages like this, first with a "delay" then with a "failure": --- This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, due to being unable to connect successfully to the destination mail server. meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Aug 1 14:13:50 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 12:13:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk In-Reply-To: <1722473356.20040801175905@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav: I was wondering where those messages were coming from...Bryan Carbonnell would be a logical choice but he should be just starting a two week holiday. Is there another designate for system support? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 8:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk Couldn't someone get this address off the list? Every time I post something to the list, I receive back two messages like this, first with a "delay" then with a "failure": --- This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, due to being unable to connect successfully to the destination mail server. meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk --- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Aug 1 16:46:10 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 22:46:10 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c47810$f5acaa00$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I know Bryan was emailing the perp but as you say he (Bryan) will be on holiday now. I believe John Bartow and Francisco have the wheel while he's away. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jim Lawrence (AccessD) > Sent: 01 August 2004 20:14 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk > > > Hi Gustav: > > I was wondering where those messages were coming from...Bryan > Carbonnell would be a logical choice but he should be just > starting a two week holiday. Is there another designate for > system support? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 8:59 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk > > > Couldn't someone get this address off the list? > > Every time I post something to the list, I receive back two > messages like this, first with a "delay" then with a "failure": > > --- > This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. > > Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, due to > being unable to connect successfully to the destination mail server. > > meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk > > --- > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sun Aug 1 18:59:55 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 19:59:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk Message-ID: <20040801235955.LYUN1916.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> Your lucky day folks. I was helping my wife send an e-mail while on vacation and decided to check mine. The offender is now postponed. In future, could this be brought to my attention off-list. Please and thanks, -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Unfortunately common sense isn't so common! From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Aug 1 20:06:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 20:06:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB203@main2.marlow.com> Ditto.....didn't think it was list generated, but I must have gotten about 50 of these in the past 2 weeks. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 10:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk Couldn't someone get this address off the list? Every time I post something to the list, I receive back two messages like this, first with a "delay" then with a "failure": --- This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, due to being unable to connect successfully to the destination mail server. meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk --- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Sun Aug 1 20:20:48 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:20:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database Message-ID: <00f501c4782e$f1687500$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Does anyone know of any shareware utility that will count lines of code in an Access 97 database (and possibly provide other statistics)? Thanks, Barb Ryan From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Aug 1 22:15:03 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 20:15:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk In-Reply-To: <20040801235955.LYUN1916.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> Message-ID: Thank you for ruining your holiday...Your wife must be extremely understanding. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 5:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk Your lucky day folks. I was helping my wife send an e-mail while on vacation and decided to check mine. The offender is now postponed. In future, could this be brought to my attention off-list. Please and thanks, -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Unfortunately common sense isn't so common! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Sun Aug 1 22:23:17 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:23:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query through VBA Message-ID: <013b01c47840$0dd41760$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all Say I have a query called sel_qry_AllOrders. It simply shows all order details The SQL for sel_qry_AllOrders is..."SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders;" Is it possible for me to get the query object and 'read' its SQL syntax eg pseudo code Dim MyQuery as query query = "sel_qry_AllOrders" debug.print "All orders query as SQL = " & SomethingCoolHereThatGetsTheSQLComponentOfTheQuery and have the debug result say All orders query as SQL = SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; Many thanks Darren From Developer at UltraDNT.com Sun Aug 1 23:01:44 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 00:01:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query through VBA In-Reply-To: <013b01c47840$0dd41760$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <000201c47845$6fc64d80$0201a8c0@COA3> Dim q as DAO.Querydef Dim s as string Set q = currentdb.querydefs("sel_qry_AllOrders") S=q.SQL ' S now holds SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; Happy coding, Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:23 PM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query through VBA Hello all Say I have a query called sel_qry_AllOrders. It simply shows all order details The SQL for sel_qry_AllOrders is..."SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders;" Is it possible for me to get the query object and 'read' its SQL syntax eg pseudo code Dim MyQuery as query query = "sel_qry_AllOrders" debug.print "All orders query as SQL = " & SomethingCoolHereThatGetsTheSQLComponentOfTheQuery and have the debug result say All orders query as SQL = SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; Many thanks Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon Aug 2 00:26:03 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:26:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query throughVBA References: <000201c47845$6fc64d80$0201a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <028801c47851$34eabe60$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Steve This is way cool - I can see the potential already I have a new challenge - can this be done where the Me.recordsource for a form is a query, but changes between 3 or 4 queries, dependant on users selection? instead of the qrydef object? Many thanks Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 2:01 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query throughVBA > Dim q as DAO.Querydef > Dim s as string > > Set q = currentdb.querydefs("sel_qry_AllOrders") > S=q.SQL > > ' S now holds SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; > > Happy coding, > Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:23 PM > To: AccessD List > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query through > VBA > > > Hello all > Say I have a query called sel_qry_AllOrders. It simply shows all order > details The SQL for sel_qry_AllOrders is..."SELECT tblOrders.* FROM > tblOrders;" > > Is it possible for me to get the query object and 'read' its SQL syntax > eg > > pseudo code > > Dim MyQuery as query > > query = "sel_qry_AllOrders" > > debug.print "All orders query as SQL = " & > SomethingCoolHereThatGetsTheSQLComponentOfTheQuery > > and have the debug result say > > All orders query as SQL = SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; > > Many thanks > > Darren > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 2 01:59:52 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:59:52 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database In-Reply-To: <00f501c4782e$f1687500$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <001b01c4785e$4fa949d0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Barbara If you don't get any other responses I've got some code to count lines of code and store results to a table. No other stats though. I'll send it to you off-line if you want. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Barbara Ryan > Sent: 02 August 2004 02:21 > To: Access List > Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database > > > Does anyone know of any shareware utility that will count > lines of code in an Access 97 database (and possibly provide > other statistics)? > > Thanks, > Barb Ryan > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 2 02:02:36 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:02:36 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query throughVBA In-Reply-To: <028801c47851$34eabe60$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <001c01c4785e$b15cbb80$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Hiya Darren, Yep, in Steve's answer just replace Set q = currentdb.querydefs("sel_qry_AllOrders") with Set q = currentdb.querydefs(Me.RecordSource) -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: 02 August 2004 06:26 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of > a query throughVBA > > > Hi Steve > This is way cool - I can see the potential already > > I have a new challenge - can this be done where the > Me.recordsource for a form is a query, but changes between 3 > or 4 queries, dependant on users selection? instead of the > qrydef object? > > Many thanks > > Darren > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 2:01 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of > a query throughVBA > > > > Dim q as DAO.Querydef > > Dim s as string > > > > Set q = currentdb.querydefs("sel_qry_AllOrders") > > S=q.SQL > > > > ' S now holds SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; > > > > Happy coding, > > Steve > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Darren DICK > > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:23 PM > > To: AccessD List > > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query > > through VBA > > > > > > Hello all > > Say I have a query called sel_qry_AllOrders. It simply > shows all order > > details The SQL for sel_qry_AllOrders is..."SELECT tblOrders.* FROM > > tblOrders;" > > > > Is it possible for me to get the query object and 'read' its SQL > > syntax eg > > > > pseudo code > > > > Dim MyQuery as query > > > > query = "sel_qry_AllOrders" > > > > debug.print "All orders query as SQL = " & > > SomethingCoolHereThatGetsTheSQLComponentOfTheQuery > > > > and have the debug result say > > > > All orders query as SQL = SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; > > > > Many thanks > > > > Darren > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon Aug 2 02:14:03 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:14:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query throughVBA References: <001c01c4785e$b15cbb80$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <02c301c47860$4a52cb30$48619a89@DDICK> Hey Andy SYWYEmigrate :-)) Thanks for the reply I actually did that many thanks Have a great day Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query throughVBA > Hiya Darren, > > Yep, in Steve's answer just replace > > Set q = currentdb.querydefs("sel_qry_AllOrders") > > with > > Set q = currentdb.querydefs(Me.RecordSource) > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > > Sent: 02 August 2004 06:26 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of > > a query throughVBA > > > > > > Hi Steve > > This is way cool - I can see the potential already > > > > I have a new challenge - can this be done where the > > Me.recordsource for a form is a query, but changes between 3 > > or 4 queries, dependant on users selection? instead of the > > qrydef object? > > > > Many thanks > > > > Darren > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 2:01 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of > > a query throughVBA > > > > > > > Dim q as DAO.Querydef > > > Dim s as string > > > > > > Set q = currentdb.querydefs("sel_qry_AllOrders") > > > S=q.SQL > > > > > > ' S now holds SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; > > > > > > Happy coding, > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Darren DICK > > > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:23 PM > > > To: AccessD List > > > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query > > > through VBA > > > > > > > > > Hello all > > > Say I have a query called sel_qry_AllOrders. It simply > > shows all order > > > details The SQL for sel_qry_AllOrders is..."SELECT tblOrders.* FROM > > > tblOrders;" > > > > > > Is it possible for me to get the query object and 'read' its SQL > > > syntax eg > > > > > > pseudo code > > > > > > Dim MyQuery as query > > > > > > query = "sel_qry_AllOrders" > > > > > > debug.print "All orders query as SQL = " & > > > SomethingCoolHereThatGetsTheSQLComponentOfTheQuery > > > > > > and have the debug result say > > > > > > All orders query as SQL = SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; > > > > > > Many thanks > > > > > > Darren > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 2 02:33:35 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:33:35 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database In-Reply-To: <00f501c4782e$f1687500$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> References: <00f501c4782e$f1687500$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <1591714655.20040802093335@cactus.dk> Hi Barbara > Does anyone know of any shareware utility that will count lines of > code in an Access 97 database (and possibly provide other > statistics)? No, but this freeware util from FMS will do: http://www.fmsinc.com/free/utilities/fmspower.htm It includes a "Database Complexity Meter" which returns statistics on your database including the number of modules and code lines. /gustav From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Mon Aug 2 02:51:28 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:51:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so you can work on the database? I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually always around when the databases are being used. I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await keenly for an answer. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Try this: Public Function HideDBWindow() On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err ' select a tab in the Database Window DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True ' Hide the database window DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide HideDBWindow_exit: Exit Function HideDBWindow_err: MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" Resume HideDBWindow_exit End Function Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but that's not the point here). I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. Thanks! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 2 02:37:20 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:37:20 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk In-Reply-To: <20040801235955.LYUN1916.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> References: <20040801235955.LYUN1916.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> Message-ID: <801939528.20040802093720@cactus.dk> Hi Bryan > The offender is now postponed. Thanks. > In future, could this be brought to my attention off-list. Sorry, but I had forgotten you were in charge of this. /gustav From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon Aug 2 05:12:04 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:12:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window References: Message-ID: <002801c47879$2a44e2b0$3f669a89@DDICK> Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually always > around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only the > required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await keenly > for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do this > through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup menu? > I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Mon Aug 2 06:33:52 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:33:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database References: <00f501c4782e$f1687500$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> <1591714655.20040802093335@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000c01c47884$96924100$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Thanks, Gustav. I downloaded the add-in ---- it looks pretty neat. However, I've tried running it 3 times on a large Access 97 app and receive a fatal error about the time that it's counting queries. I was able to successfully run it against a smaller app though. I would like to try to get this to work! Andy, would you mind sending me your cose to count lines? Thanks, Barb Ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 3:33 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database > Hi Barbara > > > Does anyone know of any shareware utility that will count lines of > > code in an Access 97 database (and possibly provide other > > statistics)? > > No, but this freeware util from FMS will do: > > http://www.fmsinc.com/free/utilities/fmspower.htm > > It includes a "Database Complexity Meter" which returns statistics on > your database including the number of modules and code lines. > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 2 06:35:13 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:35:13 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database In-Reply-To: <000c01c47884$96924100$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> References: <00f501c4782e$f1687500$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> <1591714655.20040802093335@cactus.dk> <000c01c47884$96924100$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <12516213153.20040802133513@cactus.dk> Hi Barbara You could report that to FMS - or export your forms, reports and modules to a new db and run the util from there. /gustav > Thanks, Gustav. I downloaded the add-in ---- it looks pretty neat. > However, I've tried running it 3 times on a large Access 97 app and receive > a fatal error about the time that it's counting queries. I was able to > successfully run it against a smaller app though. > I would like to try to get this to work! From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Mon Aug 2 06:53:01 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:53:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database References: <00f501c4782e$f1687500$0a00a8c0@cx470148a><1591714655.20040802093335@cactus.dk><000c01c47884$96924100$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> <12516213153.20040802133513@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001501c47887$436c36e0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> I got it to work! --- I compacted the .mdb first. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database > Hi Barbara > > You could report that to FMS - or export your forms, reports and > modules to a new db and run the util from there. > > /gustav > > > > Thanks, Gustav. I downloaded the add-in ---- it looks pretty neat. > > However, I've tried running it 3 times on a large Access 97 app and receive > > a fatal error about the time that it's counting queries. I was able to > > successfully run it against a smaller app though. > > > I would like to try to get this to work! > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon Aug 2 06:45:26 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:45:26 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Hide Queries via VBA Message-ID: <000701c47886$349ece30$3f669a89@DDICK> Hello all The following code hides all the tables in a dB- cool and it works well But there seems to be no "dot attributes" (.Attributes =) setting for Queries from the QueryDefs object I basically wanna run some enumerating code like below and hide queries, forms etc Any ideas? Many thanks Darren Function f_HideAllTables () Dim db As DAO.Database Dim tbl As TableDef Set db = CurrentDb() For Each tbl In db.TableDefs tbl.Attributes = 2 Next Application.RefreshDatabaseWindow end function From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Mon Aug 2 06:51:55 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 06:51:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003, Runtime, and Built-in Security Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630509326@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> I have an Access 2003 FE, using the Access 2003 runtime. Every time someone opens the app. I get one of those security warnings on the user's machine. I am pretty sure that this is this a Digital Certificate issue. Do I need to go to each desktop to create a cert, or can I distribute the one I created for the test/development machine? And how do I distribute it? Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI www.outbaktech.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 2 07:19:27 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:19:27 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003, Runtime, and Built-in Security In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630509326@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> References: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630509326@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <11418867359.20040802141927@cactus.dk> Hi Jeff You could have a look at Helen's article (part one only, part two I haven't seen yet) http://www.helenfeddema.com/access.htm on this topic: accarch119.zip /gustav > I have an Access 2003 FE, using the Access 2003 runtime. Every time > someone opens the app. I get one of those security warnings on the > user's machine. I am pretty sure that this is this a Digital > Certificate issue. Do I need to go to each desktop to create a cert, or > can I distribute the one I created for the test/development machine? > And how do I distribute it? > Jeff Barrows > Outbak Technologies, LLC > Racine, WI > www.outbaktech.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 2 07:31:51 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:31:51 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database Message-ID: <20040802123148.E6679250485@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Barbara I See you got the info from FMS. I won't bother sending mine unless you really want me to. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database Date: 02/08/04 11:26 > > Thanks, Gustav. I downloaded the add-in ---- it looks pretty neat. > However, I've tried running it 3 times on a large Access 97 app and receive > a fatal error about the time that it's counting queries. I was able to > successfully run it against a smaller app though. > > I would like to try to get this to work! > > Andy, would you mind sending me your cose to count lines? > > Thanks, > Barb Ryan > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk> > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 3:33 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database > > > > Hi Barbara > > > > > Does anyone know of any shareware utility that will count lines of > > > code in an Access 97 database (and possibly provide other > > > statistics)? > > > > No, but this freeware util from FMS will do: > > > > http://www.fmsinc.com/free/utilities/fmspower.htm > > > > It includes a "Database Complexity Meter" which returns statistics on > > your database including the number of modules and code lines. > > > > /gustav > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Mon Aug 2 07:43:49 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:43:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database References: <20040802123148.E6679250485@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <005001c4788e$5c216c80$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Yes .....the FMS worked so I won't need your code.....but thanks anyway!.................Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database > Barbara > I See you got the info from FMS. I won't bother sending mine unless you > really want me to. > -- > Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > --------- Original Message -------- > From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database > Date: 02/08/04 11:26 > > > > > Thanks, Gustav. I downloaded the add-in ---- it looks pretty neat. > > However, I've tried running it 3 times on a large Access 97 app and > receive > > a fatal error about the time that it's counting queries. I was able to > > successfully run it against a smaller app though. > > > > I would like to try to get this to work! > > > > Andy, would you mind sending me your cose to count lines? > > > > Thanks, > > Barb Ryan > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk> > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 3:33 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database > > > > > > > Hi Barbara > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any shareware utility that will count lines > of > > > > code in an Access 97 database (and possibly provide other > > > > statistics)? > > > > > > No, but this freeware util from FMS will do: > > > > > > http://www.fmsinc.com/free/utilities/fmspower.htm > > > > > > It includes a "Database Complexity Meter" which returns > statistics on > > > your database including the number of modules and code lines. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From actebs at actebs.com.au Mon Aug 2 07:49:50 2004 From: actebs at actebs.com.au (ACTEBS) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:49:50 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Anyone have a SpeedStream 5260 DSL modem? Message-ID: <2025BB6F17FCB54791F23CD505583328041B91@starfleet.unknown.local> Drew, I think you'll find there are more elegant solutions to this. I would recommend you leave the modem as just that a fully bridged modem that hooks up to smoothwall, a linux based firewall with a wonderful browser based administering tool. You can check it out at www.smoothwall.org All you need is an old PC 486 or better with 64Meg of RAM 2 x network cards and you're away. So simple to set up and so much more secure than those inbuilt firewalls the modems come with. I've been using it for the past 6 months and have been blown away by it's flexibility and robustness...Best of all it's free - can't do better than that! HTH Vlad www.actebs.com.au -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Saturday, 31 July 2004 8:05 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Anyone have a SpeedStream 5260 DSL modem? Just curious. Had to jump through some hoops with my DSL provider, and in the end, I ended up with a new DSL account, which still has static IP's, but uses PPPoE. A complete pain. Didn't want to install EnterNet 300, so I bit the bullet, and tried the hack to upgrade my DSL modem into a full blown DSL Modem/Router (firewall, PPPoE, DNS, etc.). Had to do some web research to pull it off, but if anyone on the list has a SpeedStream 5260 (which has an actual model number that says 5660), let me know, I can give you exact steps (and the firmware upgrades you'll need) to pull off the upgrade. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 2 08:11:41 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:11:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] W2K Setup & Admin Principles Message-ID: <20040802131138.C3D54250D38@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Hi all I've asked a question on the Tech list about setting up W2K workstations, esp about installing software so that it can be used by multiple users. If anyone thinks they may be able to help I'd really appreciate it if they'd post to the thread, and join dba-Tech to do so if they haven't already (http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech). Many thanks. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 2 07:57:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:57:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] JPEG Progress Dialog (was: The Annoying Flash - Redux) In-Reply-To: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk> References: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <12521132256.20040802145712@cactus.dk> Hi all I had to deal with this last week, and it seems to be a Windows XP thing: If run under Windows XP, the relevant section is HKEY_CURRENT_USER while under earlier Windows versions it is HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE. /gustav > Hi Rocky et all > (resume: The Annoying Flash is the Windows progress bar which pops in > front when you assign a JPEG file to a picture control in Access; when > the picture is small, you won't see any "bar" but only a flash of > "something", thus no bar at all is preferable). > Recently, I noticed this as well but under some different conditions: > A97 on WinXP where A2000 and Access XP are installed as well. > It seems that the key to change is not (at least in some cases) the > one found under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE (as the code below assumes) but the > equivalent key under HKEY_CURRENT_USER. > Perhaps the only safe way for your app is to change both keys. It > shouldn't do any harm. However, I've adjusted my code to change it > when needed and then set it back when the user closes the form where > pictures are selected. This is not foolproof, I know, but it has > caused no problems yet. > /gustav >> Hi Rocky, >> I have used the registry setting in code in an ADP (A2K) I am currently >> working on and it worked fine. There was no initial change, however the >> progress box now does not appear. I assume it was either due to a system >> restart or the compacting of the app... I'm not sure. But it does work. >> Regards, >> Matt Pickering >> LUPO DATA CONCEPTS LTD >> http://www.lupo.net.nz >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >> Beach Access Software >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:44 PM >> To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> Cc: Gordon Bennett >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux >> Gustav et al: >> Here's a mystery. That code which suppresses the annoying flash works in an >> A97 mdb but not in an A2K mdb. Even if you don't use the code but manually >> change the key to No, the progress bar flash still shows when setting the >> picture property in the image box to a jpg file. Convert the A2K mdb to A97 >> and the progress bar goes away. So it's not in the code which changes the >> registry key. There's something about A2K which apparently is showing the >> progress bar despite the reg key setting. >> Any ideas on what's going on here? >> TIA and regards, >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >> Beach Access Software >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:52 PM >> To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash >> Gustav: >> That worked perfectly. Thank you. Solves a small but annoying problem which >> will definitely improve the quality of my products. >> Best regards, >> Rocky >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:28 PM >> To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash >> Hi Rocky (and Seth) >> Did some digging and found a short API routine from April last year by >> Albert van Bergen (left the list I believe). I brushed it a bit. >> Copy and paste this into a new module for testing (beware of line >> breaks): >> >> Option Compare Database >> Option Explicit >> Public Const HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE = &H80000002 >> Public Const REG_SZ = 1 >> Public Declare Function RegCloseKey Lib "advapi32.dll" ( _ >> ByVal hKey As Long) As Long >> Public Declare Function RegCreateKey Lib "advapi32.dll" _ >> Alias "RegCreateKeyA" ( _ >> ByVal hKey As Long, _ >> ByVal lpSubKey As String, _ >> ByRef phkResult As Long) As Long >> Public Declare Function RegSetValueEx Lib "advapi32.dll" _ >> Alias "RegSetValueExA" ( _ >> ByVal hKey As Long, _ >> ByVal lpValueName As String, _ >> ByVal Reserved As Long, _ >> ByVal dwType As Long, _ >> ByRef lpData As Any, _ >> ByVal cbData As Long) As Long >> Public Sub WriteRegistry( _ >> hKey As Long, _ >> PathVar As String, _ >> ValueVar As String, _ >> DataVar As String) >> Dim hCurKey As Long >> Dim Result As Long >> Result = RegCreateKey(hKey, PathVar, hCurKey) >> Result = RegSetValueEx(hCurKey, ValueVar, 0, REG_SZ, ByVal DataVar, >> Len(DataVar)) >> Result = RegCloseKey(hCurKey) >> End Sub >> Public Sub ShowJpegProgressDialog(ByVal booShow As Boolean) >> Dim PathVar As String >> Dim ValueVar As String >> Dim DataVar As String >> PathVar = "Software\Microsoft\Shared Tools\Graphics >> Filters\Import\JPEG\Options" >> ValueVar = "ShowProgressDialog" >> DataVar = IIf(booShow = True, "Yes", "No") >> Call WriteRegistry(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, PathVar, ValueVar, DataVar) >> End Sub >> From GregSmith at starband.net Mon Aug 2 09:11:12 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:11:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar Customize Function In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1333.216.43.21.235.1091455872.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hello everyone! This is a 'refined' repeat of a question I asked on Friday and I "thought" I responded to another question about it last night...but my repsonse is not here...so I'm going to try again. Access97, by the way. I want to be able to have the "customize" function that appears when you RMC (right mouse click) .... NOT appear. I know you can do this through Access's tools (unclick the checkbox), but I need to be able to enable/disable it through the code. As long as that function exists for any users, they can 'create' their own toolbar or menubar and do whatever they want. You can disable the RMC menus for a FORM, but that does not affect the RMC on the toolbars. Tried that. Of course, if there were a way to disable the RMC for the MENU's through the code...that would work. However, I've not been able to discover how to do that. As always, TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net From michael.broesdorf at web.de Mon Aug 2 09:46:03 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:46:03 +0200 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar Customize Function In-Reply-To: <1333.216.43.21.235.1091455872.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: Greg, try this: CurrentDb.Properties("AllowToolbarChanges")=true/False And maybe these are of interest, too: CurrentDb.Properties("AllowFullMenus") CurrentDb.Properties("AllowShortcutMenus") CurrentDb.Properties("AllowSpecialKeys") CurrentDb.Properties("AllowBuiltinToolbars") AFAIK, you'll have to restart the application for changes to take effect though... HTH, Michael -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Greg Smith Gesendet: Montag, 2. August 2004 16:11 An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Betreff: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar Customize Function Hello everyone! This is a 'refined' repeat of a question I asked on Friday and I "thought" I responded to another question about it last night...but my repsonse is not here...so I'm going to try again. Access97, by the way. I want to be able to have the "customize" function that appears when you RMC (right mouse click) .... NOT appear. I know you can do this through Access's tools (unclick the checkbox), but I need to be able to enable/disable it through the code. As long as that function exists for any users, they can 'create' their own toolbar or menubar and do whatever they want. You can disable the RMC menus for a FORM, but that does not affect the RMC on the toolbars. Tried that. Of course, if there were a way to disable the RMC for the MENU's through the code...that would work. However, I've not been able to discover how to do that. As always, TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 2 10:27:03 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:27:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition Message-ID: What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From GregSmith at starband.net Mon Aug 2 10:48:20 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:48:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: AW: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar Customize Function In-Reply-To: References: <1333.216.43.21.235.1091455872.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: <1457.216.43.21.235.1091461700.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Michael: All of those DO work...(I'd forgotten about the "AllowToolbarChanges" property...). And they do require a restart of the app to take effect. Which makes it a little awkward (for the programmer...who'll have to login to the app twice to get everything back to 'programming normal'...), but the normal users won't know any different since it'll be in their mode of not allowing any changes when they login. The programmer will have to make sure of that, of course. If this is the only option (having to restart the app) available, then I'll have to live with that. Thanks again Michael. I appreciate your help! Greg gregsmith at starband.net > Greg, > > try this: > > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowToolbarChanges")=true/False > > And maybe these are of interest, too: > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowFullMenus") > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowShortcutMenus") > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowSpecialKeys") > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowBuiltinToolbars") > > AFAIK, you'll have to restart the application for changes to take effect > though... > > HTH, > > Michael > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Greg Smith > Gesendet: Montag, 2. August 2004 16:11 > An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Betreff: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar Customize > Function > > > Hello everyone! > > This is a 'refined' repeat of a question I asked on Friday and I > "thought" I responded to another question about it last night...but my > repsonse is not here...so I'm going to try again. Access97, by the way. > > I want to be able to have the "customize" function that appears when you > RMC (right mouse click) .... NOT appear. I know you can do this through > Access's tools (unclick the checkbox), but I need to be able to > enable/disable it through the code. As long as that function exists for > any users, they can 'create' their own toolbar or menubar and do > whatever they want. > > You can disable the RMC menus for a FORM, but that does not affect the > RMC on the toolbars. Tried that. > > Of course, if there were a way to disable the RMC for the MENU's through > the code...that would work. However, I've not been able to discover how > to do that. > > As always, TIA! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > From michael.broesdorf at web.de Mon Aug 2 11:16:14 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:16:14 +0200 Subject: AW: AW: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar CustomizeFunction In-Reply-To: <1457.216.43.21.235.1091461700.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: Greg, if you find a way to make it happen without a restart I'd be interested as well! A workaround would be to create an application launcher that takes care of it from the outside... Michael -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Greg Smith Gesendet: Montag, 2. August 2004 17:48 An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Betreff: Re: AW: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar CustomizeFunction Michael: All of those DO work...(I'd forgotten about the "AllowToolbarChanges" property...). And they do require a restart of the app to take effect. Which makes it a little awkward (for the programmer...who'll have to login to the app twice to get everything back to 'programming normal'...), but the normal users won't know any different since it'll be in their mode of not allowing any changes when they login. The programmer will have to make sure of that, of course. If this is the only option (having to restart the app) available, then I'll have to live with that. Thanks again Michael. I appreciate your help! Greg gregsmith at starband.net > Greg, > > try this: > > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowToolbarChanges")=true/False > > And maybe these are of interest, too: > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowFullMenus") > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowShortcutMenus") > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowSpecialKeys") > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowBuiltinToolbars") > > AFAIK, you'll have to restart the application for changes to take effect > though... > > HTH, > > Michael > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Greg Smith > Gesendet: Montag, 2. August 2004 16:11 > An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Betreff: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar Customize > Function > > > Hello everyone! > > This is a 'refined' repeat of a question I asked on Friday and I > "thought" I responded to another question about it last night...but my > repsonse is not here...so I'm going to try again. Access97, by the way. > > I want to be able to have the "customize" function that appears when you > RMC (right mouse click) .... NOT appear. I know you can do this through > Access's tools (unclick the checkbox), but I need to be able to > enable/disable it through the code. As long as that function exists for > any users, they can 'create' their own toolbar or menubar and do > whatever they want. > > You can disable the RMC menus for a FORM, but that does not affect the > RMC on the toolbars. Tried that. > > Of course, if there were a way to disable the RMC for the MENU's through > the code...that would work. However, I've not been able to discover how > to do that. > > As always, TIA! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From alan.lawhon at us.army.mil Mon Aug 2 11:37:33 2004 From: alan.lawhon at us.army.mil (Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:37:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition Message-ID: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E1744906C@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Charlotte: It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include Access.) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 2 13:26:57 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:26:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition Message-ID: But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which version of Office you were talking about. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition Charlotte: It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include Access.) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 2 13:42:47 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:42:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003, Runtime, and Built-in Security References: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630509326@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <410E8B27.8090807@shaw.ca> Assuming you are not going to spring $ 400 for a version Veritas 2 year certificate. and 'Class 2' certificates for individual developers, are unobtainable, as no CA Certificate Authority currently sells them. I never got as far as network deployment. Selfcert won't work you need makecert I got it working standalone with this makecert call Since I have a standalone version of Access2003, I had to download makecert from here, standalone version of 2003 doesn't have makecert installed. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;828407 I created certificates with these parameters in Start-->Run C:\Security\Makecert\codesigningx86\makecert -sk SelfSignedCerts -n "CN=MyCert" -b 01/01/2003 -e 01/01/2009 -ss My -r -eku 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.3 or : Use makecert.exe with the "-pe" option to create and store the certificate with an exportable private key: This maybe necessary for network deployment but "pe" only available with makecert.exe version 5.131 or higher. makecert -r -pe -n "CN=Your Name" -b 01/01/2000 -e 01/01/2099 -eku 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.3 -ss My Then you can export the certificate from the certificate store, including the private key. after install of certificate; see it listed on the Trusted Root Certification Authorities tab in Certificates window (CntrlPanel-- > Users --> Advanced). Forgotten how to attach to mdb but it should be here in the url below To set the security level. It's under tools --> macro --> security Here is description of how to sign vba project with certificate http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/odeopg/html/deovrsigningvbaproject.asp and http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/security/security/makecert.asp Two caveats You need Jet 8 SP installed to stop squawking messages about unsafe SQL expressions. Setting security to Low and then running the macro does not register the certificate in the trusted sources list. Security must be set to Medium or High before any certificates are posted to the trusted Trust Publishers list. In cases where security is set to High on all computers, a Selfcert.exe-signed macro can be deployed, but it does not have a secure enough certificate level for use by other users who are running with the High security level. Only a certificate issued by a certificate authority can be used to provide a distributable certificate and signature to others and still pass through Medium and High security levels in Office. Theoretically, you could tell your clients to use selfcert to create a certificate on each workstation, but even if they were willing to do this, your db security may prevent them from opening the VBA project to add digital certificate. If you are developing in-house applications, talk to your network administrator. Using Certificate Server on Windows 2000/2003 Server, an administrator can create a certificate that will be valid across the domain. Also to see if personal certificate is installed properly run certmgr.exe This is supposed to work but I never got this far. Since I couldn't find out how to network deploy a makecert certificate. This assumes Jet SP8 installed 2. Before you create the MDE file, go to modules open one and in VB assign a digital certificte to it. 3. Make the MDE 4. Open the app on users pc, when it asks if you want to Block unsafe expressions answer yes. 5. The next window should tell you that there is a Digital Certificate. Click on Advanced and install the Certificate. 6. Open the database 7. Close the database and reopen it. You should now have the option of checking the box to always trust apps with this digital certificate. Check that and open the database. 8. Close the database and reopen it. It should open without any prompts, at least mine do now. -------------------------------------------------------------- A couple of other ways around this. Get your network guy to change the following registry settings of the following key, should help you change the security level of the macro in Access 2003. He should be able to change this globally across the network for each client PC, there is even a way to do this from Access VBA code using WMI with proper network permissions. HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\11.0\Access\Security\Level If the value is 1, then the macro security of Access 2003 is set to low. If the value is 2, then the macro security of Access 2003 is set to medium. If the value is 3, then the macro security of Access 2003 is set to high. WARNING: If you use Registry Editor incorrectly, you may cause serious problems that may require you to reinstall your operating system. Microsoft cannot guarantee that you can solve problems that result from using Registry Editor incorrectly. Use Registry Editor at your own risk. Or You could also put this vbs code in a file to execute in a user's shortcut. Just create .vbs file and add to desktop shortcut. You can create a VB script file with this code and start your app using this. (Code is from an MS MSDN article) http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=235422 This will have problems if vbscript disabled or you are using mdw security add to file MyMDB.vbs Const cDatabaseToOpen = "C:\.mdb" On Error Resume Next Dim AcApp Set AcApp = CreateObject("Access.Application.11") If AcApp.Version >= 11 Then AcApp.AutomationSecurity = 1 ' msoAutomationSecurityLow End If AcApp.Visible = True AcApp.OpenCurrentDatabase cDatabaseToOpen If AcApp.CurrentProject.FullName <> "" Then AcApp.UserControl = True Else AcApp.Quit MsgBox "Failed to open '" & cDatabaseToOpen & "'." End If Jeff Barrows wrote: >I have an Access 2003 FE, using the Access 2003 runtime. Every time >someone opens the app. I get one of those security warnings on the >user's machine. I am pretty sure that this is this a Digital >Certificate issue. Do I need to go to each desktop to create a cert, or >can I distribute the one I created for the test/development machine? >And how do I distribute it? > > > >Jeff Barrows > >Outbak Technologies, LLC > >Racine, WI > > > >www.outbaktech.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Mon Aug 2 14:50:05 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:50:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003, Runtime, and Built-in Security - SOLVED Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305003269A@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Thanks to all for the ideas, suggestions, and links. Marty had exactly what I needed, a registry setting needed to be changed / created. Worked like a charm! Using the Access Runtime, I had no way to set the local Security Level. -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Mon 8/2/2004 1:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003, Runtime, and Built-in Security A couple of other ways around this. Get your network guy to change the following registry settings of the following key, should help you change the security level of the macro in Access 2003. He should be able to change this globally across the network for each client PC, there is even a way to do this from Access VBA code using WMI with proper network permissions. HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\11.0\Access\Security\Level If the value is 1, then the macro security of Access 2003 is set to low. If the value is 2, then the macro security of Access 2003 is set to medium. If the value is 3, then the macro security of Access 2003 is set to high. WARNING: If you use Registry Editor incorrectly, you may cause serious problems that may require you to reinstall your operating system. Microsoft cannot guarantee that you can solve problems that result from using Registry Editor incorrectly. Use Registry Editor at your own risk. Or You could also put this vbs code in a file to execute in a user's shortcut. Just create .vbs file and add to desktop shortcut. You can create a VB script file with this code and start your app using this. (Code is from an MS MSDN article) http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=235422 This will have problems if vbscript disabled or you are using mdw security add to file MyMDB.vbs Const cDatabaseToOpen = "C:\.mdb" On Error Resume Next Dim AcApp Set AcApp = CreateObject("Access.Application.11") If AcApp.Version >= 11 Then AcApp.AutomationSecurity = 1 ' msoAutomationSecurityLow End If AcApp.Visible = True AcApp.OpenCurrentDatabase cDatabaseToOpen If AcApp.CurrentProject.FullName <> "" Then AcApp.UserControl = True Else AcApp.Quit MsgBox "Failed to open '" & cDatabaseToOpen & "'." End If From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon Aug 2 20:34:05 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:34:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question Message-ID: <009d01c478f9$f71031c0$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all Time for charts My Q has 2 parts I have a table that records the dates of occurences - so far so good. The table name is tblOffences, the Field is called OffenceDate (very original - I know:-)) Date /Time data format Date Format = dd/mm/yyyy PART1 What I need is for the crosstab that is going to display my chart to break down all the occurence dates into 'day' groups. IE show all the offences throughout the year that fall on a monday into the monday group, tuesday occurences into the tuesday group etc. I want that bit to be my row heading. The column heading is to be Periods 1 through to 6.This is also captured with the Offence date. EG Each record captures Offence date - 1/1/2004, Period1 PART2 Then I need a sum of 'em. EG over the whole year 100 occurences on Mondays, 200 on Tuesdays 120 on Wednesdays etc. Of course I have dates that span the whole year, I just want to know what the syntax or procedure is for putting a years worth of data into 1 of 7 groups (ie each dayo the week) Any suggestions? Many thanks in advance Darren From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Aug 3 00:38:51 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 15:38:51 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question In-Reply-To: <009d01c478f9$f71031c0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <410FB18B.11226.15AB6EF1@lexacorp.com.pg> On 3 Aug 2004 at 11:34, Darren DICK wrote: > Hello all > Time for charts > My Q has 2 parts > > I have a table that records the dates of occurences - so far so good. The table name is tblOffences, the Field is called OffenceDate > (very original - I know:-)) Date /Time data format Date Format = dd/mm/yyyy > PART1 > What I need is for the crosstab that is going to display my chart to break down all the > occurence dates into 'day' groups. IE show all the offences throughout the year that fall on a monday into the monday group, tuesday > occurences into the tuesday group etc. > I want that bit to be my row heading. The column heading is to be Periods 1 through to 6.This > is also captured with the Offence date. > EG Each record captures Offence date - 1/1/2004, Period1 > > PART2 > Then I need a sum of 'em. EG over the whole year 100 occurences on Mondays, 200 on Tuesdays > 120 on Wednesdays etc. > > Of course I have dates that span the whole year, I just want to know what the syntax or procedure > is for putting a years worth of data into 1 of 7 groups (ie each dayo the week) > Select Distinct(Weekdayname(Weekday(OffenceDate)), count(OffenceID) from tblOffences Group By Weekdayname(Weekday(OffenceDate)) Order By Weekday(OffenceDate) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 3 00:58:35 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:58:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question References: <410FB18B.11226.15AB6EF1@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001f01c4791e$ea616e10$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Stuart Many thanks for the reply - times zones and all :-)) It is failing on the WeekDayName portion of the SQL. Is that a function you have that I don't? I managed to get the following working - promising, but not there yet SELECT DISTINCT Weekday(OffenceDate) AS Expr1 FROM tblOffences Group By Weekday(OffenceDate) Order By Weekday(OffenceDate) Many many thanks again Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question > On 3 Aug 2004 at 11:34, Darren DICK wrote: > > > Hello all > > Time for charts > > My Q has 2 parts > > > > I have a table that records the dates of occurences - so far so good. The table name is tblOffences, the Field is called OffenceDate > > (very original - I know:-)) Date /Time data format Date Format = dd/mm/yyyy > > PART1 > > What I need is for the crosstab that is going to display my chart to break down all the > > occurence dates into 'day' groups. IE show all the offences throughout the year that fall on a monday into the monday group, tuesday > > occurences into the tuesday group etc. > > I want that bit to be my row heading. The column heading is to be Periods 1 through to 6.This > > is also captured with the Offence date. > > EG Each record captures Offence date - 1/1/2004, Period1 > > > > PART2 > > Then I need a sum of 'em. EG over the whole year 100 occurences on Mondays, 200 on Tuesdays > > 120 on Wednesdays etc. > > > > Of course I have dates that span the whole year, I just want to know what the syntax or procedure > > is for putting a years worth of data into 1 of 7 groups (ie each dayo the week) > > > > Select Distinct(Weekdayname(Weekday(OffenceDate)), count(OffenceID) > from tblOffences > Group By Weekdayname(Weekday(OffenceDate)) > Order By Weekday(OffenceDate) > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 3 02:36:55 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:36:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Brilliant, Darren (and to my shame not so unobvious). Many thanks for that. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually always > around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only the > required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await keenly > for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do this > through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup menu? > I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 3 02:56:07 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:56:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually always > around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only the > required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await keenly > for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do this > through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup menu? > I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Aug 3 04:36:17 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:36:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT- Files To Psion Handhelds Message-ID: <12730068.1091525777061.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> To all, I have been given the excellent task of taking over someone?s project (as they have left the company). I basically have to import a .csv file in Access the from that data, create the following 3 files for our psion handhelds (NEVER done this before, so need all the patience and help one can get). Apparently I write out to three files as Binary access .DAT, .IDX, .ID1. The .DAT file contains every record with the following detail. PackedBarCode, strItemCode, strDesc, strSPK PackedBarCode = 14 digit barcode compressed to 7 bytes. strItemCode = Uncompressed 8 character code. strDesc = Uncompressed 40 character description. strSPK = Uncompressed 7 character packsize. The .IDX file contains every 128th record with the following detail. PackedBarCode, Offset PackedBarCode = 14 digit barcode compressed to 7 bytes. Offset = Position of the PackedBarCode in the .DAT file (4 bytes) The .ID1 file contains every record with the following detail. strItemCode = 8 character uncompressed ItemCode Offset = position of the ItemCode in the .DAT file (4 bytes) Has anyone ever worked with psions, and know a fool proof way of doing this, I have a meeting in Doncaster on Thursday with the client and would really like this section to be working. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Tim.Pain at sc.akzonobel.com Tue Aug 3 04:41:26 2004 From: Tim.Pain at sc.akzonobel.com (Pain, T. (Tim)) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:41:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] QBF conversion Message-ID: <06C47F476BB98749805A687202F1A2445AF4C4@hhmn41.d20.intra> I downloaded a copy of Duane Hookom's 'Query By Form' from RogersAccessLibrary, as mentioned here about a week ago. A nice piece of software, that is almost perfect for what I need. Except that it uses DAO, and I need it to use it in a .adp. Does anybody have anything similar or perhaps a conversion that I can use in a .adp? Many thanks Tim Pain From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Aug 3 05:59:27 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:59:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT- Files To Psion Handhelds In-Reply-To: <12730068.1091525777061.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <410FFCAF.6895.16D0F3EF@lexacorp.com.pg> On 3 Aug 2004 at 11:36, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > To all, I have been given the excellent task of taking over someone?s > project (as they have left the company). I basically have to import a > .csv file in Access the from that data, create the following 3 files > for our psion handhelds (NEVER done this before, so need all the > patience and help one can get). Apparently I write out to three files > as Binary access .DAT, .IDX, .ID1. > > The .DAT file contains every record with the following detail. > > PackedBarCode, strItemCode, strDesc, strSPK > > PackedBarCode = 14 digit barcode compressed to 7 bytes. > strItemCode = Uncompressed 8 character code. > strDesc = Uncompressed 40 character description. > strSPK = Uncompressed 7 character packsize. > > The .IDX file contains every 128th record with the following detail. > > PackedBarCode, Offset > > PackedBarCode = 14 digit barcode compressed to 7 bytes. > Offset = Position of the PackedBarCode in the .DAT file (4 bytes) > > The .ID1 file contains every record with the following detail. > > strItemCode = 8 character uncompressed ItemCode > Offset = position of the ItemCode in the .DAT file (4 bytes) > > Has anyone ever worked with psions, and know a fool proof way of doing > this, I have a meeting in Doncaster on Thursday with the client and > would really like this section to be working. I haven't worked with psions, but I've done plenty of work with importing/exporting files. The destination shouldn't really matter (unless you need to worry about things like line terminator characters.) >From you description, there are no line terminators, this is a straight data stream so it should be fairly straightforward. This solution makes a couple of assumptions: 1. The PackedBarCode is just a set of seven ASCII characters in the normal range 32-127. 2. The Offsets are stored as Longs using the same method as Windows. Here's one way. Untested, but it should be close. Let me know if it needs tweaking: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Type myExport PackedBarCode As String * 7 strItemCode As String * 8 strDescr As String * 40 strSPK As String * 7 End Type Type myIndex PackedBarCode As String * 7 Offset As Long End Type Type myIndex1 strItemCode As String * 8 Offset As Long End Type Function Getdata() As Long Dim lngRecord As Long ' Record Counter Dim varOutput As myExport Dim varIndex As myIndex Dim varIndex1 As myIndex1 Open "Import.csv" For Input As #1 'Initialise output files as zero length Open "Output.dat" For Output As #2 Close #2 Open "Output.idx" For Output As #3 Close #3 Open "output.id1" For Output As #4 Close #4 Open "Output.dat" For Random As #2 Open "Output.idx" For Random As #3 Open "output.id1" For Random As #4 While Not EOF(1) lngRecord = lngRecord + 1 Input #1, varOutput.PackedBarCode, varOutput.strDescr, varOutput.strItemCode, varOutput.strSPK varIndex1.strItemCode = varOutput.strItemCode varIndex1.Offset = (lngRecord - 1) * 62 + 8 Put #2, , varOutput Put #3, , varIndex1 If lngRecord Mod 128 = 0 Then varIndex.PackedBarCode = varOutput.PackedBarCode varIndex.Offset = (lngRecord - 1) * 62 + 1 Put #4, , varIndex End If Wend Close #1 Close #2 Close #3 Close #4 End Function -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 3 06:30:31 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:30:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question In-Reply-To: <009d01c478f9$f71031c0$48619a89@DDICK> References: <009d01c478f9$f71031c0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <3615961601.20040803133031@cactus.dk> Hi Darren What are the periods? /gustav > I have a table that records the dates of occurences - so far so good. The table name is tblOffences, the Field is called OffenceDate > (very original - I know:-)) Date /Time data format Date Format = dd/mm/yyyy > > What I need is for the crosstab that is going to display my chart to > break down all the occurence dates into 'day' groups. IE show all > the offences throughout the year that fall on a monday into the > monday group, tuesday occurences into the tuesday group etc. > I want that bit to be my row heading. > > The column heading is to be Periods 1 through to 6. > This is also captured with the Offence date. > EG Each record captures Offence date - 1/1/2004, Period1 From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 3 06:53:57 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:53:57 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question In-Reply-To: <009d01c478f9$f71031c0$48619a89@DDICK> References: <009d01c478f9$f71031c0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <417367893.20040803135357@cactus.dk> Hi Darren > I have a table that records the dates of occurences - so far so good. The table name is tblOffences, the Field is called OffenceDate > (very original - I know:-)) Date /Time data format Date Format = dd/mm/yyyy > > Then I need a sum of 'em. EG over the whole year 100 occurences on Mondays, 200 on Tuesdays > 120 on Wednesdays etc. > Of course I have dates that span the whole year, I just want to know what the syntax or procedure > is for putting a years worth of data into 1 of 7 groups (ie each dayo the week) Stuart's WeekdayName() is a newer function from A2000 or A2002. So, for you with A97, that would be: Select Format(OffenceDate, "dddd", 2) As DayOfWeek, Weekday(OffenceDate, 2) As DayNumber, Count(OffenceDate) As OffenceCount From tblOffences Where Year(OffenceDate)=2004 Group By Format(OffenceDate, "dddd", 2), WeekDay(OffenceDate, 2) Order By WeekDay(OffenceDate, 2); /gustav From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 3 08:34:49 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 14:34:49 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which version of Office you were talking about. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition Charlotte: It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include Access.) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 3 08:54:29 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:54:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040803135432.MLTI1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Do you really have to move it to another table? You could just add a field -- Active/Inactive -- something like that. You'll have to remember to update all your queries, etc., but unless there's some reason to really need to move it to another table, I don't think I'd bother. Susan H. Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 3 08:56:34 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:56:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001901c47961$b372cb90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Paul, Create a "deleted" flag in the table. When the user does the delete, mark the record as deleted. The form only displays records with the deleted flag = false. You might want to make the deleted flag a date field set to null initially, then set to the data (and even time if needed) of the delete. Now you can run code that really deletes data (or archives it) that is deleted longer than X days ago. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which version of Office you were talking about. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition Charlotte: It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include Access.) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Tue Aug 3 09:08:03 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:08:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E115@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> What she really is telling you that she's not sure if she wants to delete at all. First blush, I think, I would take all deleting capabilities away. In the form properties, change the Allow Deletions to No. Hide the record selectors and add a delete button. Add a small "ysnDelete" Y/N field in the primary table. When the "delete" button is pressed, it would toggle the field to Yes (as in Delete) and then all queries etc. would not show that record. The form could then be refreshed to show that record has been "deleted." Another form could be built to show the "Deleted" records and any record she needs to "Undeleted" could then be reactivated. Any record that truly needs to be deleted can then be separated out and permanently removed. Pros: It's not too difficult to add the field and change a few queries. A little tweaking and it shouldn't be too difficult. Cons: Forms will have to be modified to remove the true delete function of the form. Tracking all queries, forms, reports where the new field could be time consuming. Just one way this could be done. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which version of Office you were talking about. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition Charlotte: It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include Access.) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Tue Aug 3 09:22:54 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:22:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes In-Reply-To: <001901c47961$b372cb90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000001c47965$5dd71110$ac0b6bd5@netboxxp> Paul Johns right, but if you find that there will be more than one delete against the same primary key then a delete flag on its own is not enough, consider an incremented number instead... Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: 03 August 2004 14:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Paul, Create a "deleted" flag in the table. When the user does the delete, mark the record as deleted. The form only displays records with the deleted flag = false. You might want to make the deleted flag a date field set to null initially, then set to the data (and even time if needed) of the delete. Now you can run code that really deletes data (or archives it) that is deleted longer than X days ago. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which version of Office you were talking about. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition Charlotte: It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include Access.) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 22/07/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 22/07/2004 From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 3 09:33:16 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:33:16 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: This is an idea I hadn't thought of. But it seemed to me a separate table would be the handiest place for seeing 'deleted' files, and deciding if some information mightn't be better kept. Many thanks, Jim Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes What she really is telling you that she's not sure if she wants to delete at all. First blush, I think, I would take all deleting capabilities away. In the form properties, change the Allow Deletions to No. Hide the record selectors and add a delete button. Add a small "ysnDelete" Y/N field in the primary table. When the "delete" button is pressed, it would toggle the field to Yes (as in Delete) and then all queries etc. would not show that record. The form could then be refreshed to show that record has been "deleted." Another form could be built to show the "Deleted" records and any record she needs to "Undeleted" could then be reactivated. Any record that truly needs to be deleted can then be separated out and permanently removed. Pros: It's not too difficult to add the field and change a few queries. A little tweaking and it shouldn't be too difficult. Cons: Forms will have to be modified to remove the true delete function of the form. Tracking all queries, forms, reports where the new field could be time consuming. Just one way this could be done. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which version of Office you were talking about. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition Charlotte: It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include Access.) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 3 09:42:32 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:42:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: Yes, that's a good and simple idea, Susan H, thanks very much. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Do you really have to move it to another table? You could just add a field -- Active/Inactive -- something like that. You'll have to remember to update all your queries, etc., but unless there's some reason to really need to move it to another table, I don't think I'd bother. Susan H. Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 3 10:36:09 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:36:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 3 10:51:19 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:51:19 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ranthony at wrsystems.com Tue Aug 3 11:00:08 2004 From: ranthony at wrsystems.com (ranthony at wrsystems.com) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:00:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: <5F21A4E8B8DD734992EF9E70AC9D3064128CBD@mail2.wrsystems.com> Sorry to come in late on this one, but I've got an app that works in a very similar manner. The user can check a record as "completed" using a date field and a checkbox. A report can then be run showing "completed" items ready for deletion. A one-at-a-time or batch deletion can be run, which removes those records from the main table to an "archive" table, which if the need arises, can be used to restore the records to the main table. It also provides for reports to be run on the archived table for historical program reviews, etc. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 10:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Yes, that's a good and simple idea, Susan H, thanks very much. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Do you really have to move it to another table? You could just add a field -- Active/Inactive -- something like that. You'll have to remember to update all your queries, etc., but unless there's some reason to really need to move it to another table, I don't think I'd bother. Susan H. Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 3 11:03:52 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:03:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Sorry, but I don't see how the user could use an app where they saw a form and nothing else. It is possible to float a form by shrinking and hiding the *main* Access window behind it, but it frankly isn't worth the trouble IMO. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 7:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 3 11:17:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:17:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB20F@main2.marlow.com> Okay Paul, my website is finally back up. Goto http://www.wolfwares.com and download the MiniCalendar database. It is in the Microsoft Access section, (MiniCalendar3.zip). It's an Access 97 database. Notice that when it starts, the form is on the desktop. No sign of Access at all. To 'show' Access, hit Ctrl-A (same to hide it again). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 10:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 3 11:25:41 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:25:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Anyone have a SpeedStream 5260 DSL modem? In-Reply-To: <2025BB6F17FCB54791F23CD505583328041B91@starfleet.unknown.local> Message-ID: <002101c47976$851e6500$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Is this thing Linux and the firewall, or do I have to get Linux installed and functioning, then install this? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ACTEBS Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Anyone have a SpeedStream 5260 DSL modem? Drew, I think you'll find there are more elegant solutions to this. I would recommend you leave the modem as just that a fully bridged modem that hooks up to smoothwall, a linux based firewall with a wonderful browser based administering tool. You can check it out at www.smoothwall.org All you need is an old PC 486 or better with 64Meg of RAM 2 x network cards and you're away. So simple to set up and so much more secure than those inbuilt firewalls the modems come with. I've been using it for the past 6 months and have been blown away by it's flexibility and robustness...Best of all it's free - can't do better than that! HTH Vlad www.actebs.com.au -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Saturday, 31 July 2004 8:05 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Anyone have a SpeedStream 5260 DSL modem? Just curious. Had to jump through some hoops with my DSL provider, and in the end, I ended up with a new DSL account, which still has static IP's, but uses PPPoE. A complete pain. Didn't want to install EnterNet 300, so I bit the bullet, and tried the hack to upgrade my DSL modem into a full blown DSL Modem/Router (firewall, PPPoE, DNS, etc.). Had to do some web research to pull it off, but if anyone on the list has a SpeedStream 5260 (which has an actual model number that says 5660), let me know, I can give you exact steps (and the firmware upgrades you'll need) to pull off the upgrade. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Tue Aug 3 11:38:02 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:38:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: AccessD Members in Edinburgh? In-Reply-To: <3615961601.20040803133031@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <00c701c47978$3f430610$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Hello Group: I will be in Scotland next week, attending the Festival Fringe. If there are any AccessD members who will be in the Edinburgh area at that time, I'd like to take the opportunity to meet with you. So, if anyone out there is available and interested, contact me offline -- I'll be happy to buy you a cold one. -Ken From artful at rogers.com Tue Aug 3 16:09:09 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:09:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: AccessD Members in London or Paris? In-Reply-To: <00c701c47978$3f430610$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: <00ac01c4799e$1ea6ad50$6601a8c0@rock> I will be travelling to London and Paris in about late October/early November. Any listers reside in those fine cities? It would be fun to meet up. Contact me off list if in these environs. Arthur From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 3 19:12:22 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:12:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question References: <009d01c478f9$f71031c0$48619a89@DDICK> <417367893.20040803135357@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <004701c479b7$b70487c0$48619a89@DDICK> Perfect!!!! Access 2K - No WeekDayName Function - you are correct Many thanks Gustav cha cha cha Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question > Hi Darren > > > I have a table that records the dates of occurences - so far so good. The table name is tblOffences, the Field is called OffenceDate > > (very original - I know:-)) Date /Time data format Date Format = dd/mm/yyyy > > > > Then I need a sum of 'em. EG over the whole year 100 occurences on Mondays, 200 on Tuesdays > > 120 on Wednesdays etc. > > > Of course I have dates that span the whole year, I just want to know what the syntax or procedure > > is for putting a years worth of data into 1 of 7 groups (ie each dayo the week) > > Stuart's WeekdayName() is a newer function from A2000 or A2002. > > So, for you with A97, that would be: > > Select > Format(OffenceDate, "dddd", 2) As DayOfWeek, > Weekday(OffenceDate, 2) As DayNumber, > Count(OffenceDate) As OffenceCount > From > tblOffences > Where > Year(OffenceDate)=2004 > Group By > Format(OffenceDate, "dddd", 2), > WeekDay(OffenceDate, 2) > Order By > WeekDay(OffenceDate, 2); > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 3 19:42:38 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:42:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes References: Message-ID: <009201c479bb$f1610890$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Paul I rarely let my users 'delete' records In virtually all my tables I have a field called IsDeleted - Data Type = Number All my 'delete' buttons actually set the value for IsDeleted in that record to -1 Then the form refreshes to NOT show records where IsDeleted =-1 That way we can give the appearance (and make yourself look good in the process) of having the ability to undo or rollback when users 'stuff something up' after they have left the record or closed the form I actually then move (at whatever period suits) all records where IsDeleted = -1 to another table or dB I rationalise this to all my users (the ones involved at admin level in the design specs at least) and I haven't had anyone disagree (yet). In fact when you explain the benefits and low overheads al my customers (so far) agree it's a great idea. You can then build them an interface (I do) to recover 'deleted' records or data. I don't let 'em edit data through those interfaces - just recover 'deleted' records or REALLY delete - depending on Logon Permissions. It's all pretty transparent to the users and the Admin people really know what's going on and love the ability of a 2nd chance recovery or proper deletion Hope this helps Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:34 PM Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes > Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? > > The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds > the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it > goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. > > Expert guidance would be appreciated. > > Cheers paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:27 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 > ProfessionalEdition > > > But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which > version of Office you were talking about. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research > [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 > ProfessionalEdition > > > Charlotte: > > It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and > "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version > includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include > Access.) > > Alan C. Lawhon > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 > Professional Edition > > > What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is > something else entirely. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional > Edition > > > I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional > Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go > to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product > available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price > available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what > makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" > which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: > > > Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future > Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software > Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products > sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party > merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. > > > At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 > threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" > shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good > deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is > currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking > at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA > store. CompUSA's store price was > $329.99.) > > I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal > clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, > you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! > > Alan C. Lawhon > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 3 20:44:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:44:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes In-Reply-To: <009201c479bb$f1610890$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <000201c479c4$8e6f5b70$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Agreed. I have an active and a trash flag (Booleans). Active means just that, active in the database, should be showing at all times. Inactive means not ready for archive but still an active record. Trash means someone tried to do a delete. The state table looks like: Active=True, Trash=False - Record is active Active=False, Trash = false - Record is inactive Active=False, Trash=True - Someone tried to delete Active=True, Trash=True - Invalid state. I have relationships set between virtually every parent / child with cascade delete turned off. This causes any attempt to delete where a child record exists to generate a jet error. My error handler simply asks "are you sure you want to delete", and if the answer is yes, clears the active flag and sets the trash flag, requerying the form. All forms display only Active records. Since the active flag was just cleared, the record "disappears" or appears to be deleted. You would not believe the relief on the user's face when you undelete a record they know they shouldn't have deleted. Worth more good will than anything else you can do for them. I am able to prevent deletes on records with no children but in many cases I don't bother. Many times a single record with no children should be allowed to be deleted anyway. Mistaken data entry, trash records etc. Since I use a framework, and this stuff is built into the form class, it is just there, available for any form that uses the form class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Hi Paul I rarely let my users 'delete' records In virtually all my tables I have a field called IsDeleted - Data Type = Number All my 'delete' buttons actually set the value for IsDeleted in that record to -1 Then the form refreshes to NOT show records where IsDeleted =-1 That way we can give the appearance (and make yourself look good in the process) of having the ability to undo or rollback when users 'stuff something up' after they have left the record or closed the form I actually then move (at whatever period suits) all records where IsDeleted = -1 to another table or dB I rationalise this to all my users (the ones involved at admin level in the design specs at least) and I haven't had anyone disagree (yet). In fact when you explain the benefits and low overheads al my customers (so far) agree it's a great idea. You can then build them an interface (I do) to recover 'deleted' records or data. I don't let 'em edit data through those interfaces - just recover 'deleted' records or REALLY delete - depending on Logon Permissions. It's all pretty transparent to the users and the Admin people really know what's going on and love the ability of a 2nd chance recovery or proper deletion Hope this helps Darren From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Wed Aug 4 02:37:50 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:37:50 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Hi Charlotte It would be ideal if upon opening their Access database there was just a form that offered all the Users could need. I'd like them not to be going to tables and queries - and nor to be able to find how to get there. When you offered that neat piece of coding before, you reminded me of what I see as ideal. Of course one can make adjustmentments on Startup. But they quickly learn the Window/Unhide entrance. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 5:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Sorry, but I don't see how the user could use an app where they saw a form and nothing else. It is possible to float a form by shrinking and hiding the *main* Access window behind it, but it frankly isn't worth the trouble IMO. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 7:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Wed Aug 4 02:46:28 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:46:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: Yes, this isalmost exactly what I had in mind originally, though it has to be said that SusanH's idea of adding a field has a lot in its favour. I'd be very keen to see the code that manages this delayed deletion route for you, if possible. It seems to me to be something that everyone needs who has Users not under the direct control. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: ranthony at wrsystems.com [mailto:ranthony at wrsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 5:00 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Sorry to come in late on this one, but I've got an app that works in a very similar manner. The user can check a record as "completed" using a date field and a checkbox. A report can then be run showing "completed" items ready for deletion. A one-at-a-time or batch deletion can be run, which removes those records from the main table to an "archive" table, which if the need arises, can be used to restore the records to the main table. It also provides for reports to be run on the archived table for historical program reviews, etc. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 10:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Yes, that's a good and simple idea, Susan H, thanks very much. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Do you really have to move it to another table? You could just add a field -- Active/Inactive -- something like that. You'll have to remember to update all your queries, etc., but unless there's some reason to really need to move it to another table, I don't think I'd bother. Susan H. Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Wed Aug 4 03:29:51 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:29:51 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: Yes, that is great, Darren. Exactly the sort of thing I had in mind - only much cleverer. Oh yes, I'd certainly tell the User about the recoverability of 'deletes'. It's not putting them in the dark that I planned, just making things recoverable in a simple way. I'm much obliged. Thanks very much for that. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Hi Paul I rarely let my users 'delete' records In virtually all my tables I have a field called IsDeleted - Data Type = Number All my 'delete' buttons actually set the value for IsDeleted in that record to -1 Then the form refreshes to NOT show records where IsDeleted =-1 That way we can give the appearance (and make yourself look good in the process) of having the ability to undo or rollback when users 'stuff something up' after they have left the record or closed the form I actually then move (at whatever period suits) all records where IsDeleted = -1 to another table or dB I rationalise this to all my users (the ones involved at admin level in the design specs at least) and I haven't had anyone disagree (yet). In fact when you explain the benefits and low overheads al my customers (so far) agree it's a great idea. You can then build them an interface (I do) to recover 'deleted' records or data. I don't let 'em edit data through those interfaces - just recover 'deleted' records or REALLY delete - depending on Logon Permissions. It's all pretty transparent to the users and the Admin people really know what's going on and love the ability of a 2nd chance recovery or proper deletion Hope this helps Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:34 PM Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes > Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? > > The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds > the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it > goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. > > Expert guidance would be appreciated. > > Cheers paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:27 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 > ProfessionalEdition > > > But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which > version of Office you were talking about. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research > [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 > ProfessionalEdition > > > Charlotte: > > It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and > "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version > includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include > Access.) > > Alan C. Lawhon > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 > Professional Edition > > > What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is > something else entirely. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional > Edition > > > I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional > Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go > to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product > available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price > available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what > makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" > which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: > > > Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future > Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software > Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products > sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party > merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. > > > At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 > threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" > shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good > deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is > currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking > at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA > store. CompUSA's store price was > $329.99.) > > I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal > clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, > you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! > > Alan C. Lawhon > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Wed Aug 4 04:47:47 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:47:47 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Quite amazing, Drew, but when converted to 2k it doesn't go exactly right - or it may be this computer. Anyway, I certainly see what you mean. Thank you. (I'll try to look it on another machine.) That's a very nice looking website. cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 5:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Okay Paul, my website is finally back up. Goto http://www.wolfwares.com and download the MiniCalendar database. It is in the Microsoft Access section, (MiniCalendar3.zip). It's an Access 97 database. Notice that when it starts, the form is on the desktop. No sign of Access at all. To 'show' Access, hit Ctrl-A (same to hide it again). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 10:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Wed Aug 4 07:50:48 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:50:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED14F@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 4 08:20:16 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 15:20:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED14F@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> References: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED14F@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: <15122724305.20040804152016@cactus.dk> Hi Roz That's really a matter of taste. I see both points but wonder why he doesn't go to the end suggesting random numbers for the details. It's a bit like giving tables numbers for names instead of friendly names. Also, who would those be that would create "arbitrary & meaningless character codes"? You could compromise by creating a Select All query for each table and name the query as you like - then use that and not the table. /gustav > Dear all > I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of > details in our database. > His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be > exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, > X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another > whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. > Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I > would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the > 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for > claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, > whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say > XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. > The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & > meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered > details will be in a sensible sequence. > a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion > of related details > b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code > c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed > Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully > numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule > him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is > (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up > with any convincing arguments. > TIA > Roz From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Aug 4 09:07:15 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:07:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <30785086.1091625575120.JavaMail.root@sniper4.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000f01c47a2c$58b05f80$de1811d8@danwaters> Roz, Personally, I think your contractor has a 'lot of experience' working without good business judgment. Any database is, after all, just a business tool. Maintenance on this system could be very expensive. I take the other direction and provide all my table fields, form controls, variables, recordsets, etc., with full names. An example would be: FinanceDefine (field - text) FinanceDefineValue (field - integer) FinanceDefineDate (field - Date) lblFinanceDefine (label) cboFinanceDefine (combobox) txtFinanceDefineValue (textbox) txtFinanceDefineDate (textbox) In this particular case, there are similar fields for 6 other departmental roles equivalent to Finance. Using a consistent naming convention lets me set up one procedure Function to handle all 7 roles for checking values or formatting. Another strong value for me is that because the code is directly readable, the amount of commenting I need to do is greatly reduced. It takes time to type in the full names, but if I used 'random' names, then with each code change I would also need to retype the comments. I believe that I put in a little extra work up front, with a payback later on of being able to quickly read the code to understand what is happening. Are you really limited to 8 characters for field names? If so, what is the BE you are using? Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 7:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Wed Aug 4 09:23:57 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 15:23:57 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: I have a few minutes for this really interesting idea now. I have the field in the table, and the data type is Number. 1. I am not sure what is meant by "set the value for IsDeleted in that record to -1" (By a bit a coding?) 2. And - sorry - this escapes me too - "Then the form refreshes to NOT show records where IsDeleted =-1" (Via a query?) Be very pleased if you could let me know. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:43 AM From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 4 10:10:38 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:10:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c47a35$36b12190$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Paul, The way I handle this is to have a control on the form which exposes (is bound to) that field in the table, and is called the same thing on every form. In my case it is a Boolean value in the table, and thus a checkbox on the form. The checkboxes are always named chkActive and chkTrash on my forms (in my code). The code that intercepts the delete has access to the form. When the decision to actually perform the "delete" is made, MY code simply clears the active and sets the trash by programmatically manipulating those controls on the form. If you are using a "deleted" field and a text box called txtDeleted then the code would look something like: me!txtDeleted = -1 '(which is the numeric value for True By The Way) Me.dirty = false '(which saves that changed data) Me.Requery 'To cause the form to no longer display the "deleted" record. The form's query has a where clause Select MyData >From MyTable Where Deleted = False Since you just set Deleted = true and requeried the form, the data "disappears" One important thing here though is to NOT try and just capture a delete button click. You should use the BeforeDelete event in the form. In that you ask the question "are you sure", then you cancel the delete (you don't want a delete really happening) and you run the code that sets the Deleted text box, saves the change and requeries the form. The reason I caution against simply providing a delete button and trying to capture that click is that a record can be deleted by selecting the record and using the menu at the top (if the menu is exposed), selecting a record and hitting the delete key, etc. You want to capture ALL attempts to delete the data through the form regardless of how they figure out to perform that delete. Capturing the BeforeDelete event and doing it there guarantees that no deletes will be performed manually through that form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes I have a few minutes for this really interesting idea now. I have the field in the table, and the data type is Number. 1. I am not sure what is meant by "set the value for IsDeleted in that record to -1" (By a bit a coding?) 2. And - sorry - this escapes me too - "Then the form refreshes to NOT show records where IsDeleted =-1" (Via a query?) Be very pleased if you could let me know. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:43 AM -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 4 10:20:28 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 01:20:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED14F@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: <41118B5C.5799.1D7E200@lexacorp.com.pg> On 4 Aug 2004 at 13:50, Roz Clarke wrote: > > Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully > numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule > him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is > (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up > with any convincing arguments. > First question, why are you limited to 8 character names? Unless that is a limitation of the DBMS, and I can't think of one today that has such a limit, there is no reason to do so. Numerics Con: Meaningless numeric names are a good method of "job security by obfuscation". They make code maintenance a bastard even for people who are working with the system regularly. They are a total nightmare for anyone who has to come in later and make sense of what was previously developed. Pro: I can't think of anything MeaningfulNames: Pro: Makes code easier to follow, especially if you use one of the commmon conventions such as Leszynski/Reddick Con: I can't think of anything Try googling "naming conventions database" :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Wed Aug 4 11:05:41 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:05:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form Message-ID: <000b01c47a3c$e498ebb0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> I have a user who wants to be able to print forms. If you use the Print Preview button from the menu, it shows a print preview with no option to print, and no toolbar. When you click File-Close the preview window closes, as well as the form. How can I build Print Preview for a form so the user can back up without closing the form? Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 10:57:35 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:57:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Message-ID: You seem to be stuck in the perennial argument about meaningful vs meaningless keys. I agree that keys that are never exposed to the user should be autonumbers or their equivalent. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "naming details"? You don't name records, you create keys for them. Personally, I prefer meaningless keys, because those are used internally by the DBMS, not by humans. They are used to create and enforce relationships, while some human-friendly value (like an agreed-upon code) is used to provide something the user can recognize for other purposes. If you are working in the tables themselves, you're the one who is wrong because that is a good way to destroy the integrity of the data. Even as a developer, I do NOT create meaningful keys so I can look at a single table and know exactly what each record refers to. I guess that means I'm mostly on the contractor's side in this, although I would go further and use a straight autonumber without any alpha characters or attempt to make the thing partly meaningful. As far as leaving gaps to insert other records, that is a trap because you are depending on ordering by the meaningful PK. In fact, with an additional non-PK user-friendly key, you can order on that and create all the gaps you want. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Roz Clarke [mailto:roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 11:00:26 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:00:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: It's perfectly possible to turn off those features unless a command-line argument is passed when the database is open. I've done that on projects in order to leave myself a backdoor but remove any way for the user to get into the guts of the mdb. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte It would be ideal if upon opening their Access database there was just a form that offered all the Users could need. I'd like them not to be going to tables and queries - and nor to be able to find how to get there. When you offered that neat piece of coding before, you reminded me of what I see as ideal. Of course one can make adjustmentments on Startup. But they quickly learn the Window/Unhide entrance. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 5:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Sorry, but I don't see how the user could use an app where they saw a form and nothing else. It is possible to float a form by shrinking and hiding the *main* Access window behind it, but it frankly isn't worth the trouble IMO. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 7:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dkalsow at yahoo.com Wed Aug 4 11:00:39 2004 From: dkalsow at yahoo.com (Dale Kalsow) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Text Box Exit Function In-Reply-To: <000b01c47a3c$e498ebb0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Message-ID: <20040804160039.37722.qmail@web50407.mail.yahoo.com> I am trying to validate the data in a field when the user exits the field. When I use the field's name (me!fieldname) its value is null even though I have entered something into it. Does anyone know how I get the current value of the text box that I just entered the data into? Thanks in advance! Dale __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 4 11:18:08 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 18:18:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form In-Reply-To: <000b01c47a3c$e498ebb0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> References: <000b01c47a3c$e498ebb0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Message-ID: <6733396000.20040804181808@cactus.dk> Hi Mark Here I have that toolbar - with its own "Close" icon. I think you just need to select this toolbar when your form is shown in preview. /gustav > I have a user who wants to be able to print forms. If you use the Print > Preview button from the menu, it shows a print preview with no option to > print, and no toolbar. When you click File-Close the preview window closes, > as well as the form. How can I build Print Preview for a form so the user > can back up without closing the form? > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 4 11:40:46 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:40:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <018101c47a41$cb307530$6601a8c0@rock> After two decades of propounding standard Hungarian notation, I am now dead set against it, for two reasons: A) You have to read past the prefix to find out what anything relates to. IOW, you increase noise at the expense of signal. B) All objects named thus sort poorly. How does it help you if every cbo is prefixed "cbo"? For the past year or so I have used what I call the "object-action" naming scheme. It uses Hungarian notation but as suffix not prefix. This preserves the sort order in a meaningful way. A couple of examples: CustomerInsert_ap - suffix means application procedure (as opposed to system procedure) CustomerSelectByName_fnt - user-defined function that returns a table of customerIDs and names sorted by name (SQL 2000+ only) CustomerFilter_cbo - combo box that filters the form by selected customer (i.e. show only the orders placed by selected customer) Perhaps the main reason that I have moved to this convention is the ease of teaching it to a new hire, and letting her find her way around the database quickly. "Look for the object of interest, followed by the action of interest, and know what you're dealing with by the suffix." In Access 2002+, this convention is especially profitable, because a single "Queries" tab houses sprocs, UDFs and views. Prefixing them all with standard Hungarian prefixes muddies the water, IMO. My convention lets you type "C" and immediately go to all the "Customer" related stuff. Then you can quickly deduce what's available for re-use, and what sort of object it is. Given the overwhelming devotion to standard Hungarian notation, I expect this message to cause lots of flames and rebuttals. That's why we're here, after all :) Arthur From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 4 11:53:49 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:53:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <018601c47a43$9dbea110$6601a8c0@rock> Well said, Charlotte. I would add that the definition of any column whose subcolumn positions "mean" something is by definition a violation of the standard normal forms. Each column/value should contain precisely one unit of information. Subsetting a column into sub-columns is IMO always wrong. For example: Value: XLW0001 Where XL means Extra Large and W means white. Wrong, wrong, wrong, IMO! This is what columns are for! Even supposing that you might want to search for "XLW", that simply means that you search two columns not one -- i.e. it's in interface issue not a database design issue. Re: your comments regarding autonumbers, I agree 1000%. Gaps are an attempt to insert meaning where none ought to reside. Imagine a chicken farmer trying to create meaningful PKs for the eggs laid by her 10,000 chickens. All I want is a bloddy omelet! Hee hee hee. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? You seem to be stuck in the perennial argument about meaningful vs meaningless keys. I agree that keys that are never exposed to the user should be autonumbers or their equivalent. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "naming details"? You don't name records, you create keys for them. Personally, I prefer meaningless keys, because those are used internally by the DBMS, not by humans. They are used to create and enforce relationships, while some human-friendly value (like an agreed-upon code) is used to provide something the user can recognize for other purposes. If you are working in the tables themselves, you're the one who is wrong because that is a good way to destroy the integrity of the data. Even as a developer, I do NOT create meaningful keys so I can look at a single table and know exactly what each record refers to. I guess that means I'm mostly on the contractor's side in this, although I would go further and use a straight autonumber without any alpha characters or attempt to make the thing partly meaningful. As far as leaving gaps to insert other records, that is a trap because you are depending on ordering by the meaningful PK. In fact, with an additional non-PK user-friendly key, you can order on that and create all the gaps you want. Charlotte Foust From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Wed Aug 4 12:12:30 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:12:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form References: <000b01c47a3c$e498ebb0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> <6733396000.20040804181808@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000e01c47a46$3a4e35c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Gustav, That works if I allow full menus. If I don't, then I just get the preview with no toolbar. I can add a custom toolbar to the form with a preview button, but when I preview I still have that same custom toolbar, since it's the form that's open and not a report version of it. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > Hi Mark > > Here I have that toolbar - with its own "Close" icon. > I think you just need to select this toolbar when your form is shown > in preview. > > /gustav > > > > I have a user who wants to be able to print forms. If you use the Print > > Preview button from the menu, it shows a print preview with no option to > > print, and no toolbar. When you click File-Close the preview window closes, > > as well as the form. How can I build Print Preview for a form so the user > > can back up without closing the form? > > > Mark Whittinghill > > Symphony Information Services > > 763-391-7400 > > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 4 11:52:28 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:52:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED14F@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Roz: You pay the bills and the contractor is the payee. What ever you say goes. No matter how dumb I may feel the client's requests are, if it does not affect the functionality, it is my job to attempt to satisfy them...period. Bottom-line HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 4 12:07:24 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 19:07:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form In-Reply-To: <000e01c47a46$3a4e35c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> References: <000b01c47a3c$e498ebb0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> <6733396000.20040804181808@cactus.dk> <000e01c47a46$3a4e35c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Message-ID: <11136352111.20040804190724@cactus.dk> Hi Mark OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. /gustav > Gustav, > That works if I allow full menus. If I don't, then I just get the preview > with no toolbar. I can add a custom toolbar to the form with a preview > button, but when I preview I still have that same custom toolbar, since it's > the form that's open and not a report version of it. > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> Here I have that toolbar - with its own "Close" icon. >> I think you just need to select this toolbar when your form is shown >> in preview. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > I have a user who wants to be able to print forms. If you use the Print >> > Preview button from the menu, it shows a print preview with no option to >> > print, and no toolbar. When you click File-Close the preview window closes, >> > as well as the form. How can I build Print Preview for a form so the user >> > can back up without closing the form? From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Wed Aug 4 12:40:19 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:40:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form References: <000b01c47a3c$e498ebb0$2201a8c0@PASCAL><6733396000.20040804181808@cactus.dk><000e01c47a46$3a4e35c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> <11136352111.20040804190724@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001201c47a4a$1d386420$2201a8c0@PASCAL> :-( I guess my choice is enable new menus or tell them to live with it? Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > Hi Mark > > OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. > > /gustav > From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 4 12:29:07 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:29:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Arthur, I agree in principle...in fact, before I was "educated" in common coding practices, I too had "naturally" developed and utilized a naming scheme that employed suffixes rather than prefixes. I don't know if you wanted the likes of me on your side;) ...but there it is. IMHO a standard is a standard and one should work to whatever procedure fits his/her style. The point, I believe, is consistency, not conformity. I'm hopeful that the conversation won't raise to the point of a fanatical flame war. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:41 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions After two decades of propounding standard Hungarian notation, I am now dead set against it, for two reasons: A) You have to read past the prefix to find out what anything relates to. IOW, you increase noise at the expense of signal. B) All objects named thus sort poorly. How does it help you if every cbo is prefixed "cbo"? For the past year or so I have used what I call the "object-action" naming scheme. It uses Hungarian notation but as suffix not prefix. This preserves the sort order in a meaningful way. A couple of examples: CustomerInsert_ap - suffix means application procedure (as opposed to system procedure) CustomerSelectByName_fnt - user-defined function that returns a table of customerIDs and names sorted by name (SQL 2000+ only) CustomerFilter_cbo - combo box that filters the form by selected customer (i.e. show only the orders placed by selected customer) Perhaps the main reason that I have moved to this convention is the ease of teaching it to a new hire, and letting her find her way around the database quickly. "Look for the object of interest, followed by the action of interest, and know what you're dealing with by the suffix." In Access 2002+, this convention is especially profitable, because a single "Queries" tab houses sprocs, UDFs and views. Prefixing them all with standard Hungarian prefixes muddies the water, IMO. My convention lets you type "C" and immediately go to all the "Customer" related stuff. Then you can quickly deduce what's available for re-use, and what sort of object it is. Given the overwhelming devotion to standard Hungarian notation, I expect this message to cause lots of flames and rebuttals. That's why we're here, after all :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From MPorter at acsalaska.com Wed Aug 4 12:30:19 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:30:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <635B80FE6C7D5A409586A6A110D97D170E4BB5@ACSANCHOR.corp.acsalaska.com> No flames here, I have made the same change to my naming convention as well. It started with Report-Subreports and Form-Subforms, I was tired of fighting the prefix to find all sub objects to the main object. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:41 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > After two decades of propounding standard Hungarian notation, I am now > dead set against it, for two reasons: > > A) You have to read past the prefix to find out what anything relates > to. IOW, you increase noise at the expense of signal. > B) All objects named thus sort poorly. How does it help you > if every cbo > is prefixed "cbo"? > > For the past year or so I have used what I call the "object-action" > naming scheme. It uses Hungarian notation but as suffix not > prefix. This > preserves the sort order in a meaningful way. A couple of examples: > > CustomerInsert_ap - suffix means application procedure (as opposed to > system procedure) > CustomerSelectByName_fnt - user-defined function that returns > a table of > customerIDs and names sorted by name (SQL 2000+ only) > CustomerFilter_cbo - combo box that filters the form by selected > customer (i.e. show only the orders placed by selected customer) > > Perhaps the main reason that I have moved to this convention > is the ease > of teaching it to a new hire, and letting her find her way around the > database quickly. "Look for the object of interest, followed by the > action of interest, and know what you're dealing with by the suffix." > > In Access 2002+, this convention is especially profitable, because a > single "Queries" tab houses sprocs, UDFs and views. Prefixing them all > with standard Hungarian prefixes muddies the water, IMO. My convention > lets you type "C" and immediately go to all the "Customer" related > stuff. Then you can quickly deduce what's available for > re-use, and what > sort of object it is. > > Given the overwhelming devotion to standard Hungarian > notation, I expect > this message to cause lots of flames and rebuttals. That's why we're > here, after all :) > > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > *********************************************************************************** 4/8/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 4 12:38:57 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:38:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <018101c47a41$cb307530$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <001001c47a49$f05a5670$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Arthur, While I pretty much agree with you I have not yet moved to the suffix method. Further I do have a problem with those developers who name things without using abbreviations, such that you end up with CustomerAddressesSortedByWhoKnowsWhatJustAsAnExampleQSel. At least the object type as a prefix places it at the beginning where it can be found. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:41 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions After two decades of propounding standard Hungarian notation, I am now dead set against it, for two reasons: A) You have to read past the prefix to find out what anything relates to. IOW, you increase noise at the expense of signal. B) All objects named thus sort poorly. How does it help you if every cbo is prefixed "cbo"? For the past year or so I have used what I call the "object-action" naming scheme. It uses Hungarian notation but as suffix not prefix. This preserves the sort order in a meaningful way. A couple of examples: CustomerInsert_ap - suffix means application procedure (as opposed to system procedure) CustomerSelectByName_fnt - user-defined function that returns a table of customerIDs and names sorted by name (SQL 2000+ only) CustomerFilter_cbo - combo box that filters the form by selected customer (i.e. show only the orders placed by selected customer) Perhaps the main reason that I have moved to this convention is the ease of teaching it to a new hire, and letting her find her way around the database quickly. "Look for the object of interest, followed by the action of interest, and know what you're dealing with by the suffix." In Access 2002+, this convention is especially profitable, because a single "Queries" tab houses sprocs, UDFs and views. Prefixing them all with standard Hungarian prefixes muddies the water, IMO. My convention lets you type "C" and immediately go to all the "Customer" related stuff. Then you can quickly deduce what's available for re-use, and what sort of object it is. Given the overwhelming devotion to standard Hungarian notation, I expect this message to cause lots of flames and rebuttals. That's why we're here, after all :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From GregSmith at starband.net Wed Aug 4 12:39:20 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:39:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Test for a Particular Reference in Code. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1265.216.43.21.235.1091641160.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi everybody! I'm trying to distribute an app that I've modified and I'm running into references issues at the client's site. It's in Access97 (but not for much longer). I'm having to reference Microsoft Office 8.0 Object Library (mso97.dll) and I have it update the reference through the code. However, if it already is referenced, then I get the error that you can't have a reference with the same name, etc. What I need to do is test to see if this reference already exists. If it does, then don't add it. But I can't figure out how to test for it specifically. Is there a way to test for a particular reference (in this case, the one for the MSOffice 8.0 Obj lib? TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 4 12:50:49 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:50:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c47a4b$99341640$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> In fact if it were me, I would add at least one field for these codes such that you can specify each part of the whole individually. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Hi Roz: You pay the bills and the contractor is the payee. What ever you say goes. No matter how dumb I may feel the client's requests are, if it does not affect the functionality, it is my job to attempt to satisfy them...period. Bottom-line HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 4 12:54:33 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:54:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: You surprised me John:) I would have bet money that your response would have included a reference as to how it would impact a framework;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Arthur, While I pretty much agree with you I have not yet moved to the suffix method. Further I do have a problem with those developers who name things without using abbreviations, such that you end up with CustomerAddressesSortedByWhoKnowsWhatJustAsAnExampleQSel. At least the object type as a prefix places it at the beginning where it can be found. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:41 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions After two decades of propounding standard Hungarian notation, I am now dead set against it, for two reasons: A) You have to read past the prefix to find out what anything relates to. IOW, you increase noise at the expense of signal. B) All objects named thus sort poorly. How does it help you if every cbo is prefixed "cbo"? For the past year or so I have used what I call the "object-action" naming scheme. It uses Hungarian notation but as suffix not prefix. This preserves the sort order in a meaningful way. A couple of examples: CustomerInsert_ap - suffix means application procedure (as opposed to system procedure) CustomerSelectByName_fnt - user-defined function that returns a table of customerIDs and names sorted by name (SQL 2000+ only) CustomerFilter_cbo - combo box that filters the form by selected customer (i.e. show only the orders placed by selected customer) Perhaps the main reason that I have moved to this convention is the ease of teaching it to a new hire, and letting her find her way around the database quickly. "Look for the object of interest, followed by the action of interest, and know what you're dealing with by the suffix." In Access 2002+, this convention is especially profitable, because a single "Queries" tab houses sprocs, UDFs and views. Prefixing them all with standard Hungarian prefixes muddies the water, IMO. My convention lets you type "C" and immediately go to all the "Customer" related stuff. Then you can quickly deduce what's available for re-use, and what sort of object it is. Given the overwhelming devotion to standard Hungarian notation, I expect this message to cause lots of flames and rebuttals. That's why we're here, after all :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 4 12:56:32 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:56:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <001001c47a49$f05a5670$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20040804175638.EFV1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> While I pretty much agree with you I have not yet moved to the suffix method. Further I do have a problem with those developers who name things without using abbreviations, such that you end up with CustomerAddressesSortedByWhoKnowsWhatJustAsAnExampleQSel. At least the object type as a prefix places it at the beginning where it can be found. ==============But who standardizes the abbreviations? ;) Susan H. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 4 12:57:42 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:57:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Test for a Particular Reference in Code. Message-ID: Greg, This is from my personal archives... ****************** > If IsBroken is buggy how else can I check the references? For A97, this function can be used: Public Function IsBroken97(ByVal ref As Access.Reference) As Boolean ' Alternative method to check if a reference is broken ' as the IsBroken property cannot be used in Access97. ' ' 2000-03-19. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' Refer to this article at Microsoft Technet: ' ' Article ID: Q186720 ' ' The information in this article applies to: ' Microsoft Access 97 ' ' SYMPTOMS ' In Microsoft Access, IsBroken is a property of the References collection. ' The Microsoft Access Help topic on the Isbroken property states the following: ' ' The IsBroken property returns a Boolean value indicating whether a ' Reference object points to a valid reference in the Windows Registry. ' ' Although this statement is correct, to receive this Boolean value ' you must trap for errors that are generated by the broken reference. ' Also, the IsBroken property becomes True only when the file being referenced ' is deleted and the Microsoft Windows Recycle Bin is emptied. ' This article details the steps necessary to receive the Boolean value. Dim booRefOK As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_IsBroken97 If Len(Dir(ref.FullPath, vbNormal)) > 0 Then booRefOK = Not ref.IsBroken End If Exit_IsBroken97: IsBroken97 = Not booRefOK Exit Function Err_IsBroken97: ' Ignore non existing servers, drives, and paths. Resume Exit_IsBroken97 End Function ****************** -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Test for a Particular Reference in Code. Hi everybody! I'm trying to distribute an app that I've modified and I'm running into references issues at the client's site. It's in Access97 (but not for much longer). I'm having to reference Microsoft Office 8.0 Object Library (mso97.dll) and I have it update the reference through the code. However, if it already is referenced, then I get the error that you can't have a reference with the same name, etc. What I need to do is test to see if this reference already exists. If it does, then don't add it. But I can't figure out how to test for it specifically. Is there a way to test for a particular reference (in this case, the one for the MSOffice 8.0 Obj lib? TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 13:00:12 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:00:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Remember though, that the Hungarian naming convention follows the object model, where the object type it the higher level than the individual object. That suggests a prefix. If a suffix makes you happy, fine ... As long as I don't have to maintain your project. ;-} And of course, grouping by name doesn't handle multiple-use objects very well, like that single subreport that shows up in a dozen reports. How do you name it to connect it to every report? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 9:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Arthur, I agree in principle...in fact, before I was "educated" in common coding practices, I too had "naturally" developed and utilized a naming scheme that employed suffixes rather than prefixes. I don't know if you wanted the likes of me on your side;) ...but there it is. IMHO a standard is a standard and one should work to whatever procedure fits his/her style. The point, I believe, is consistency, not conformity. I'm hopeful that the conversation won't raise to the point of a fanatical flame war. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:41 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions After two decades of propounding standard Hungarian notation, I am now dead set against it, for two reasons: A) You have to read past the prefix to find out what anything relates to. IOW, you increase noise at the expense of signal. B) All objects named thus sort poorly. How does it help you if every cbo is prefixed "cbo"? For the past year or so I have used what I call the "object-action" naming scheme. It uses Hungarian notation but as suffix not prefix. This preserves the sort order in a meaningful way. A couple of examples: CustomerInsert_ap - suffix means application procedure (as opposed to system procedure) CustomerSelectByName_fnt - user-defined function that returns a table of customerIDs and names sorted by name (SQL 2000+ only) CustomerFilter_cbo - combo box that filters the form by selected customer (i.e. show only the orders placed by selected customer) Perhaps the main reason that I have moved to this convention is the ease of teaching it to a new hire, and letting her find her way around the database quickly. "Look for the object of interest, followed by the action of interest, and know what you're dealing with by the suffix." In Access 2002+, this convention is especially profitable, because a single "Queries" tab houses sprocs, UDFs and views. Prefixing them all with standard Hungarian prefixes muddies the water, IMO. My convention lets you type "C" and immediately go to all the "Customer" related stuff. Then you can quickly deduce what's available for re-use, and what sort of object it is. Given the overwhelming devotion to standard Hungarian notation, I expect this message to cause lots of flames and rebuttals. That's why we're here, after all :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Wed Aug 4 12:59:53 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:59:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I also do the same with subreports and subforms. It groups all or the related items together and makes it much easier to maintain IMO. "Porter, Mark" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions 08/04/2004 12:30 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" No flames here, I have made the same change to my naming convention as well. It started with Report-Subreports and Form-Subforms, I was tired of fighting the prefix to find all sub objects to the main object. Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ============================================================================== From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 4 13:00:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:00:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB219@main2.marlow.com> What do you mean by 'details'? If you are referring to data within the tables, then you should really split things into separate fields. If a record is for a 'current phase' of development, then you create a phase of development field. If you are talking about object names.....I would go with your approach. My personal opinion of naming conventions is that you should use what makes sense to you, and the system you are working on. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 7:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? << File: ATT04991.txt >> << File: ATT04992.txt >> Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 4 13:00:44 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:00:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Test for a Particular Reference in Code. Message-ID: More from my Gustav archives:))) ... ***************** Hi Mark > Does anyone know of a way to set references through code, rather than > manually checking the references on each PC? I have searched the KB, but > cannot find a thing. Do you wish to add or to check references? This summer Paul Hobbs asked something similarly (we never got any feedback). Maybe you can get some inspiration from this which checks one specific reference; if you experience that it's the same reference that seems to be dropped from your app, you can check for the GUID of this instead for the GUID of Word: Public Sub CheckWordRef() Dim refA As Reference Dim refW As Reference Dim strGuid As String Dim lngMajor As Long Dim lngMinor As Long strGuid = "{00020905-0000-0000-C000-000000000046}" lngMajor = 8 lngMinor = 1 ' Look for the reference to Word in the database. For Each refA In Application.References If refA.Name = "Word" Then Set refW = refA Exit For End If Next If Not refW Is Nothing Then ' Remove the Reference. References.Remove refW End If On Error Resume Next ' Try adding Word 2000 library. References.AddFromGuid strGuid, lngMajor, lngMinor ' Try adding Word 97 library. ' This will fail if Word 2000 library was added successfully. lngMinor = lngMinor - 1 References.AddFromGuid strGuid, lngMajor, lngMinor Set refA = Nothing Set refW = Nothing End Sub Alternatively, you may verify the references: Public Function VerifyReferences(ByVal booErrorDisplay As Boolean) As Boolean ' Verify Access' external references and re-establish these if possible. ' Uses function IsBroken97(). ' ' 2001-07-29. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim refA As Reference Dim refX As Reference Dim strRefFullPath As String Dim booNotBuiltInRefExists As Boolean Dim booIsBroken As Boolean Dim booRefIsMissing As Boolean Dim strMsgTitle As String Dim strMsgPrompt As String Dim strMsgHeader As String Dim strMsgFooter As String Dim lngMsgStyle As Long ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' User oriented error message. strMsgTitle = "Missing support file" strMsgHeader = "One or more supporting files are missing:" & vbCrLf strMsgFooter = vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "Report this to IT support." & vbCrLf strMsgFooter = strMsgFooter & "Program execution cannot continue." lngMsgStyle = vbCritical + vbOKOnly ' Look for the first reference in the database other than ' the built in "Access" and "Visual Basic for Applications". For Each refA In Application.References If refA.BuiltIn = False Then ' At least one not built in reference is in use. booNotBuiltInRefExists = True ' Check if the reference is not broken. If IsBroken97(refA) = False Then ' The first not missing not built in reference is found. Set refX = refA Exit For End If End If Next If booNotBuiltInRefExists = False Then ' Only built in references are in use. ' Nothing more to do. Else If refX Is Nothing Then ' All not built in references are missing. ' Don't remove missing references as there is no way to ' re-establish a reference if its identity is lost. Else ' Remove this not built in reference and add it back to ' force Access to revalidate all references. ' This may or may not rebuild links to missing references. With References strRefFullPath = refX.FullPath .Remove refX .AddFromFile strRefFullPath End With Set refX = Nothing End If ' Check references if any should be missing. ' If so, no attempt to read a reference is done as it most likely ' either is not installed or has been moved to an unknown directory. For Each refA In References booIsBroken = IsBroken97(refA) If booIsBroken = True Then ' Build list of missing files. strMsgPrompt = strMsgPrompt & vbCrLf & refA.FullPath End If booRefIsMissing = booRefIsMissing Or booIsBroken Next ' If any reference is broken, display error message if requested. If booRefIsMissing = True And booErrorDisplay = True Then strMsgPrompt = strMsgHeader & strMsgPrompt & strMsgFooter DoCmd.Beep MsgBox strMsgPrompt, lngMsgStyle, strMsgTitle End If End If Set refA = Nothing VerifyReferences = Not booRefIsMissing End Function Supporting function: Public Function IsBroken97(ByVal ref As Reference) As Boolean ' Alternative method to check if a reference is broken ' as the IsBroken property cannot be used in Access97. ' ' 2000-03-19. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' Refer to this article at Microsoft Technet: ' ' Article ID: Q186720 ' ' The information in this article applies to: ' Microsoft Access 97 ' ' SYMPTOMS ' In Microsoft Access, IsBroken is a property of the References collection. ' The Microsoft Access Help topic on the Isbroken property states the following: ' ' The IsBroken property returns a Boolean value indicating whether a ' Reference object points to a valid reference in the Windows Registry. ' ' Although this statement is correct, to receive this Boolean value ' you must trap for errors that are generated by the broken reference. ' Also, the IsBroken property becomes True only when the file being referenced ' is deleted and the Microsoft Windows Recycle Bin is emptied. ' This article details the steps necessary to receive the Boolean value. Dim booRefOK As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_IsBroken97 If Dir(ref.FullPath) <> vbNullString Then booRefOK = Not ref.IsBroken End If Exit_IsBroken97: IsBroken97 = Not booRefOK Exit Function Err_IsBroken97: ' Ignore non existing servers, drives, and paths. Resume Exit_IsBroken97 End Function Please note that I haven't used these for A2000/2002 - these might behave differently than A97. Also, running any of these functions will leave your app not compiled; this may not cause trouble but you should pay attention. /gustav ***************** -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Test for a Particular Reference in Code. Hi everybody! I'm trying to distribute an app that I've modified and I'm running into references issues at the client's site. It's in Access97 (but not for much longer). I'm having to reference Microsoft Office 8.0 Object Library (mso97.dll) and I have it update the reference through the code. However, if it already is referenced, then I get the error that you can't have a reference with the same name, etc. What I need to do is test to see if this reference already exists. If it does, then don't add it. But I can't figure out how to test for it specifically. Is there a way to test for a particular reference (in this case, the one for the MSOffice 8.0 Obj lib? TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 4 12:00:53 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:00:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB216@main2.marlow.com> There's one of two methods that can be used for Access 2000. One method is to turn the Modal property of your forms to Yes (along with the Popup to Yes, which 97 also needs). However, you can also use the ShowWindow API, again, after you hide the Access window, to show the form again. The 'Always On Top' example database on my site does that, though it also sets the Zorder of the window to -1, which makes the form stay on top of all of the other windows on your desktop, which is probably overkill for what you want. One warning, when hiding Access, reports cannot be previewed. They can be printed, but if previewed, they will show up within the 'hidden' Access window. So if you are going to allow the users to preview reports, you will need to display the Access window for the user (just have the On close event of the reports hide Access again. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Quite amazing, Drew, but when converted to 2k it doesn't go exactly right - or it may be this computer. Anyway, I certainly see what you mean. Thank you. (I'll try to look it on another machine.) That's a very nice looking website. cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 5:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Okay Paul, my website is finally back up. Goto http://www.wolfwares.com and download the MiniCalendar database. It is in the Microsoft Access section, (MiniCalendar3.zip). It's an Access 97 database. Notice that when it starts, the form is on the desktop. No sign of Access at all. To 'show' Access, hit Ctrl-A (same to hide it again). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 10:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 13:04:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:04:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: So how do you name the subreports and subforms that are reused on more than one form or report? Surely you *have* reusable object, right? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com [mailto:jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I also do the same with subreports and subforms. It groups all or the related items together and makes it much easier to maintain IMO. "Porter, Mark" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions 08/04/2004 12:30 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" No flames here, I have made the same change to my naming convention as well. It started with Report-Subreports and Form-Subforms, I was tired of fighting the prefix to find all sub objects to the main object. Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ======================================================================== ====== -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 13:05:12 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:05:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Message-ID: You're a masochist then. If I can't persuade the client that they're paying for my knowledge and expertise, then I get a new client. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Hi Roz: You pay the bills and the contractor is the payee. What ever you say goes. No matter how dumb I may feel the client's requests are, if it does not affect the functionality, it is my job to attempt to satisfy them...period. Bottom-line HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 4 13:08:57 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:08:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: ;) The American Society of Mechanical Engineers ASME Y14.38 "Abbreviations and Acronyms" http://asme.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=36&EXTRA_ARG=&CFGNAME= MssFind%2Ecfg&host_id=42&page_id=1068800&query=y14+38&hiword=38+y14+ Mark ...use it religiously in my work. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions While I pretty much agree with you I have not yet moved to the suffix method. Further I do have a problem with those developers who name things without using abbreviations, such that you end up with CustomerAddressesSortedByWhoKnowsWhatJustAsAnExampleQSel. At least the object type as a prefix places it at the beginning where it can be found. ==============But who standardizes the abbreviations? ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 4 13:16:34 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:16:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Text Box Exit Function In-Reply-To: <20040804160039.37722.qmail@web50407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040804181636.RMG1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Me!fieldname doesn't have a value yet -- are you sure you don't mean Me!controlname? Susan H. I am trying to validate the data in a field when the user exits the field. When I use the field's name (me!fieldname) its value is null even though I have entered something into it. Does anyone know how I get the current value of the text box that I just entered the data into? From CMackin at Quiznos.com Wed Aug 4 13:45:49 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:45:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Text Box Exit Function Message-ID: Once the naming issue is resolved, look at the me!controlname.TEXT property, it will have the current value in the textbox -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Text Box Exit Function Me!fieldname doesn't have a value yet -- are you sure you don't mean Me!controlname? Susan H. I am trying to validate the data in a field when the user exits the field. When I use the field's name (me!fieldname) its value is null even though I have entered something into it. Does anyone know how I get the current value of the text box that I just entered the data into? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Wed Aug 4 13:49:15 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:49:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E13C@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> What about creating a report that looks exactly like the form? On a whim. I copied all the controls on a form and pasted them into a report. Changed the background to match the form. Took out the report header and footer. Used the same record source. The subforms were not changed out. When I did a print preview --- it looked like the form! Buttons and all. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark Whittinghill Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form :-( I guess my choice is enable new menus or tell them to live with it? Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > Hi Mark > > OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. > > /gustav > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 4 13:48:57 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:48:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c47a53$b6df53a0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> LOL. A girl after my own heart! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? You're a masochist then. If I can't persuade the client that they're paying for my knowledge and expertise, then I get a new client. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Hi Roz: You pay the bills and the contractor is the payee. What ever you say goes. No matter how dumb I may feel the client's requests are, if it does not affect the functionality, it is my job to attempt to satisfy them...period. Bottom-line HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 4 13:50:04 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:50:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001801c47a53$df1d7360$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Uh... Did I forget to mention... ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You surprised me John:) I would have bet money that your response would have included a reference as to how it would impact a framework;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Arthur, While I pretty much agree with you I have not yet moved to the suffix method. Further I do have a problem with those developers who name things without using abbreviations, such that you end up with CustomerAddressesSortedByWhoKnowsWhatJustAsAnExampleQSel. At least the object type as a prefix places it at the beginning where it can be found. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:41 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions After two decades of propounding standard Hungarian notation, I am now dead set against it, for two reasons: A) You have to read past the prefix to find out what anything relates to. IOW, you increase noise at the expense of signal. B) All objects named thus sort poorly. How does it help you if every cbo is prefixed "cbo"? For the past year or so I have used what I call the "object-action" naming scheme. It uses Hungarian notation but as suffix not prefix. This preserves the sort order in a meaningful way. A couple of examples: CustomerInsert_ap - suffix means application procedure (as opposed to system procedure) CustomerSelectByName_fnt - user-defined function that returns a table of customerIDs and names sorted by name (SQL 2000+ only) CustomerFilter_cbo - combo box that filters the form by selected customer (i.e. show only the orders placed by selected customer) Perhaps the main reason that I have moved to this convention is the ease of teaching it to a new hire, and letting her find her way around the database quickly. "Look for the object of interest, followed by the action of interest, and know what you're dealing with by the suffix." In Access 2002+, this convention is especially profitable, because a single "Queries" tab houses sprocs, UDFs and views. Prefixing them all with standard Hungarian prefixes muddies the water, IMO. My convention lets you type "C" and immediately go to all the "Customer" related stuff. Then you can quickly deduce what's available for re-use, and what sort of object it is. Given the overwhelming devotion to standard Hungarian notation, I expect this message to cause lots of flames and rebuttals. That's why we're here, after all :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Wed Aug 4 14:00:45 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 15:00:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form In-Reply-To: <001201c47a4a$1d386420$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Message-ID: <000f01c47a55$5c0b74c0$0201a8c0@COA3> Or, desing a report with a BMP (gif, jpeg, whatever) of the form as backround. Place the data text boxes in the same spots, and have them preview that. Steve PS: LOL @ >OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Whittinghill Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form :-( I guess my choice is enable new menus or tell them to live with it? Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > Hi Mark > > OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. > > /gustav > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From CMackin at Quiznos.com Wed Aug 4 14:14:47 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:14:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form Message-ID: If you go that route then you can simply right click the form in the database window and Save As a report. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form What about creating a report that looks exactly like the form? On a whim. I copied all the controls on a form and pasted them into a report. Changed the background to match the form. Took out the report header and footer. Used the same record source. The subforms were not changed out. When I did a print preview --- it looked like the form! Buttons and all. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark Whittinghill Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form :-( I guess my choice is enable new menus or tell them to live with it? Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > Hi Mark > > OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. > > /gustav > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Wed Aug 4 14:48:40 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:48:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form References: Message-ID: <001401c47a5c$0b867e80$2201a8c0@PASCAL> I brought up the idea of making a report, but the client decided they really didn't need this anyway. They don't have access to the db window and stock menus, otherwise this wouldn't be an issue. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mackin, Christopher" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > If you go that route then you can simply right click the form in the database window and Save As a report. > > -Chris Mackin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > What about creating a report that looks exactly like the form? > On a whim. I copied all the controls on a form and pasted them into a report. > Changed the background to match the form. Took out the report header and footer. Used the same record source. The subforms were not changed out. > When I did a print preview --- it looked like the form! Buttons and all. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark > Whittinghill > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > :-( > > I guess my choice is enable new menus or tell them to live with it? > > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:07 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > Hi Mark > > > > OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. > > > > /gustav > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 4 15:06:50 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:06:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <20040804175638.EFV1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <01a701c47a5e$94f7d180$6601a8c0@rock> A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. However, I prefer a tack that says "abbreviations are unnecessary". For example, when any update query hits more than one table, in my book it's called a molecular object, comprised of two or more atomic objects. Any procedure that hits more than one table (i.e. hit = update, delete or insert) is by definition flawed; it ought instead to invoke as many other atomic procedures as are required. These rules keep naming conventions simple, and even better, follow the standard laws of procedural and object programming. IMO. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions While I pretty much agree with you I have not yet moved to the suffix method. Further I do have a problem with those developers who name things without using abbreviations, such that you end up with CustomerAddressesSortedByWhoKnowsWhatJustAsAnExampleQSel. At least the object type as a prefix places it at the beginning where it can be found. ==============But who standardizes the abbreviations? ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 15:12:41 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:12:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form Message-ID: You do realize that printing a form is entirely different from printing a report, right? By default, a form prints one page for every record. Is that the intent?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mark Whittinghill [mailto:mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form I brought up the idea of making a report, but the client decided they really didn't need this anyway. They don't have access to the db window and stock menus, otherwise this wouldn't be an issue. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mackin, Christopher" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > If you go that route then you can simply right click the form in the database window and Save As a report. > > -Chris Mackin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > What about creating a report that looks exactly like the form? On a > whim. I copied all the controls on a form and pasted them into a report. > Changed the background to match the form. Took out the report header > and footer. Used the same record source. The subforms were not changed out. > When I did a print preview --- it looked like the form! Buttons and > all. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark > Whittinghill > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > :-( > > I guess my choice is enable new menus or tell them to live with it? > > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:07 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > Hi Mark > > > > OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. > > > > /gustav > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 4 15:15:16 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:15:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <01a701c47a5e$94f7d180$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040804201519.DJKK1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the list of abbreviations than coding. ;) Susan H. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 15:22:09 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:22:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Susan, I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the list of abbreviations than coding. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 4 15:31:22 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:31:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040804203124.ENDX1792.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I'm just talking about the actual object name abbreviations Charlotte. ;) Susan H. I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust From MPorter at acsalaska.com Wed Aug 4 15:37:48 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:37:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <635B80FE6C7D5A409586A6A110D97D170E4BB9@ACSANCHOR.corp.acsalaska.com> As do I. Do you know how many derivitaves of 'Account' I have to deal with? It's amazing how creative people can be. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Susan, > > I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming > convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. > > One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write > standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're > experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, > and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others > down the road > if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects > and variables > are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like > i, j, k, l > m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat > someone to > a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses > prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, > but it won't take long to learn to translate. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:15 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > > > A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. > > ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the > list of abbreviations than coding. ;) > > Susan H. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > *********************************************************************************** 4/8/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 15:48:45 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:48:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I'm talking about those too. When you're working in code and you can't tell by the name of the object what it is, you have to backtrack and figure it out. In the database window, you can tell by the tab group, but you don't have that luxury in code, so debugging code that refers to opening a recordset on an object named January causes a little trip back to the DB window to see what you're dealing with. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just talking about the actual object name abbreviations Charlotte. ;) Susan H. I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 15:49:58 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:49:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: LOL ... Especially when they're fields in the same table!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions As do I. Do you know how many derivitaves of 'Account' I have to deal with? It's amazing how creative people can be. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Susan, > > I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming > convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. > > One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write > standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're > experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, > and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the > road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects > and variables > are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like > i, j, k, l > m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat > someone to > a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses > prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, > but it won't take long to learn to translate. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:15 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > > > A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. > > ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the > list of abbreviations than coding. ;) > > Susan H. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ************************************************************************ *********** 4/8/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 4 15:57:33 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:57:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040804205737.NGJT8009.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Are we talking about the same thing? I'm not talking about omitting the prefixes -- I'm talking about abbreviating Customer, Invoice, Names, Employees, etc... So instead of frmEmployees, you might have frmEmp You'd need a convention for the convention -- which is OK -- companies should do what works, but for the individual? Nah... unless that's what works for him/her. JC was complaining about developers that don't abbreviate, and personally, I'd find it a pia. If I had to take over an app full of frmEmp's I'd be annoyed with the convention myself. I'd much rather deal with full words. Susan H. I'm talking about those too. When you're working in code and you can't tell by the name of the object what it is, you have to backtrack and figure it out. In the database window, you can tell by the tab group, but you don't have that luxury in code, so debugging code that refers to opening a recordset on an object named January causes a little trip back to the DB window to see what you're dealing with. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just talking about the actual object name abbreviations Charlotte. ;) Susan H. I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 16:07:16 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:07:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: No, we're not and it's probably my fault. I'm on the fence about abbreviations, as opposed to tags or prefixes. We use Rpt to abbreviate "report" in our object names, like "frmDailyRpt", and I'm lazy enought to prefer that to "frmDailyReport", but as long as they're consistent and readable, I'm OK with them. On the other hand, "rptDailyRpt" would look silly, so we use "rptDailyReport"! Either way, it's readable. It's the ambiguous abbreviations that are crazy-making: Dat (is that data or date or a typo or something I haven't thought of?), Wk (is that week or work or wok or someone's initials?), etc. That's where it is up to the company to determine the standards to make sure they're consistent. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Are we talking about the same thing? I'm not talking about omitting the prefixes -- I'm talking about abbreviating Customer, Invoice, Names, Employees, etc... So instead of frmEmployees, you might have frmEmp You'd need a convention for the convention -- which is OK -- companies should do what works, but for the individual? Nah... unless that's what works for him/her. JC was complaining about developers that don't abbreviate, and personally, I'd find it a pia. If I had to take over an app full of frmEmp's I'd be annoyed with the convention myself. I'd much rather deal with full words. Susan H. I'm talking about those too. When you're working in code and you can't tell by the name of the object what it is, you have to backtrack and figure it out. In the database window, you can tell by the tab group, but you don't have that luxury in code, so debugging code that refers to opening a recordset on an object named January causes a little trip back to the DB window to see what you're dealing with. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just talking about the actual object name abbreviations Charlotte. ;) Susan H. I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 4 16:14:39 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:14:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB21D@main2.marlow.com> What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Susan, I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the list of abbreviations than coding. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Wed Aug 4 16:41:07 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:41:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form References: Message-ID: <004a01c47a6b$c0e26b90$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Charlotte, I do realize that printing a form is different, though I never really studied it before today. The user was doing this from the file menu, and after I explained that I couldn't just easily add a Back button to print preview, she just dropped the matter. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:12 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > You do realize that printing a form is entirely different from printing > a report, right? By default, a form prints one page for every record. > Is that the intent?? > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Whittinghill [mailto:mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > I brought up the idea of making a report, but the client decided they > really didn't need this anyway. They don't have access to the db window > and stock menus, otherwise this wouldn't be an issue. > > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mackin, Christopher" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:14 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > If you go that route then you can simply right click the form in the > database window and Save As a report. > > > > -Chris Mackin > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:49 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > > > > > What about creating a report that looks exactly like the form? On a > > whim. I copied all the controls on a form and pasted them into a > report. > > Changed the background to match the form. Took out the report header > > and > footer. Used the same record source. The subforms were not changed > out. > > When I did a print preview --- it looked like the form! Buttons and > > all. > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark > > Whittinghill > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:40 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > > > :-( > > > > I guess my choice is enable new menus or tell them to live with it? > > > > Mark Whittinghill > > Symphony Information Services > > 763-391-7400 > > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:07 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > > > > Hi Mark > > > > > > OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 4 16:32:57 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 17:32:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040804213259.GBLH1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> It's the ambiguous abbreviations that are crazy-making: Dat (is that data or date or a typo or something I haven't thought of?), Wk (is that week or work or wok or someone's initials?), etc. That's where it is up to the company to determine the standards to make sure they're consistent. ======I totally agree. If the company wants them, make the developers use them consistently -- but don't hand one over to me! :) Unless of course, you're going to pay me to memorize them all before I even start. You might as well just put me in the looney bin before I start. :) Susan H. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 16:37:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:37:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Inherently? Nothing. But when you have a long routine (yes, I know long routines are bad and I don't build them that way, but I still have to deal with them) that is passing I into another function or doing some math with it, having no clear indication of the datatype in the variable name makes it more likely that you'll have trouble debugging problems that involve that variable. I believe in saving work down the road by taking precautions up front. Like I said, I'm lazy. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Susan, I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the list of abbreviations than coding. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 16:39:07 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:39:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: >>You might as well just put me in the looney bin before I start. :) Um ... No comment! LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's the ambiguous abbreviations that are crazy-making: Dat (is that data or date or a typo or something I haven't thought of?), Wk (is that week or work or wok or someone's initials?), etc. That's where it is up to the company to determine the standards to make sure they're consistent. ======I totally agree. If the company wants them, make the developers use them consistently -- but don't hand one over to me! :) Unless of course, you're going to pay me to memorize them all before I even start. You might as well just put me in the looney bin before I start. :) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 4 20:25:57 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:25:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Charlotte: I am speaking from the perspective of many of my clients. These are government organizations and their standards are very specific. It is either their way or the highway. With that said, there are of course variations within a theme but the latitude or creativity the developer can exercise is very limited by the technical standards manuals or by the senior government ITS project manager. You can bet that their view of artistic license is on the conservative side. I had the pleasure of writing a document on how a reference document could be written. It was later accepted as a standard. From that day on, all fonts, weight, indentation of any application manuals had to adhere the standard. All submissions were marked up or down by compliance. That process goes doubly for coding. Every table, view, stored procedure field, key and foreign key name must comply. So many lines of explanation for every piece of code and so on. There are many good companies, with good developers out there. If one does not what to comply there is no point in bidding on a contract. I have witnessed a perspective contractor, with an otherwise, perfect bid loss a contract on just a missed signature. It is definitely a buyer market and government clients are extremely rigid...On the other hand they pay very well. ...Betweeen $75 and $140 per hour which can be an excellent way go on even a small three month contract. :-) I may no be able to be bought but I can be rented. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? You're a masochist then. If I can't persuade the client that they're paying for my knowledge and expertise, then I get a new client. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Hi Roz: You pay the bills and the contractor is the payee. What ever you say goes. No matter how dumb I may feel the client's requests are, if it does not affect the functionality, it is my job to attempt to satisfy them...period. Bottom-line HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 4 20:35:29 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:35:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB21D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: It is only wrong if you have in the middle of the for loop something like: if I = 12 and J = 32 then goto faraway :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Susan, I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the list of abbreviations than coding. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 4 20:35:30 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:35:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <20040804213259.GBLH1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: I agree. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's the ambiguous abbreviations that are crazy-making: Dat (is that data or date or a typo or something I haven't thought of?), Wk (is that week or work or wok or someone's initials?), etc. That's where it is up to the company to determine the standards to make sure they're consistent. ======I totally agree. If the company wants them, make the developers use them consistently -- but don't hand one over to me! :) Unless of course, you're going to pay me to memorize them all before I even start. You might as well just put me in the looney bin before I start. :) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Aug 4 20:55:47 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:55:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes References: Message-ID: <007901c47a8f$53afd200$48619a89@DDICK> Demo sent off list DD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:23 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes > I have a few minutes for this really interesting idea now. > > I have the field in the table, and the data type is Number. > > 1. I am not sure what is meant by "set the value for IsDeleted in that > record to -1" (By a bit a coding?) > > 2. And - sorry - this escapes me too - "Then the form refreshes to NOT show > records where IsDeleted =-1" (Via a query?) > > Be very pleased if you could let me know. Cheers paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:43 AM > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 5 04:06:14 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:06:14 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1088648045.20040805110614@cactus.dk> Hi Jim > I had the pleasure of writing a document on how a reference document could > be written. It was later accepted as a standard. From that day on, all > fonts, weight, indentation of any application manuals had to adhere the > standard. All submissions were marked up or down by compliance. > That process goes doubly for coding. Every table, view, stored procedure > field, key and foreign key name must comply. So many lines of explanation > for every piece of code and so on. Sounds like a decent piece of work! Could it be (revised and) brought to the dba site as a guide? I mean, not (necessarily) a guide to follow, but to how such a guide could look and what you need to specify? > There are many good companies, with good developers out there. If one does > not what to comply there is no point in bidding on a contract. I have > witnessed a perspective contractor, with an otherwise, perfect bid loss a > contract on just a missed signature. What are you telling here? No signature, no contract - but why did the signature miss? /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 5 03:51:08 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:51:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB21D@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB21D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <487741551.20040805105108@cactus.dk> Hi Drew > What's wrong with: > For I=1 to 50 > > Next I You don't need the last I; Next will do. /gustav From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Thu Aug 5 04:15:17 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:15:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: Thanks very much, Darren. Look forward to looking inside soon. -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 2:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Demo sent off list DD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:23 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes > I have a few minutes for this really interesting idea now. > > I have the field in the table, and the data type is Number. > > 1. I am not sure what is meant by "set the value for IsDeleted in that > record to -1" (By a bit a coding?) > > 2. And - sorry - this escapes me too - "Then the form refreshes to NOT show > records where IsDeleted =-1" (Via a query?) > > Be very pleased if you could let me know. Cheers paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:43 AM > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu Aug 5 08:30:59 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:30:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB0865065899@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> >You don't need the last I; Next will do. While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions --------------Please open with care!------------ This message has bypassed some of our spam filtering rules. This message was scanned for viruses and executable code has been stripped. --------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Drew > What's wrong with: > For I=1 to 50 > > Next I You don't need the last I; Next will do. /gustav -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Thu Aug 5 08:41:58 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:41:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Thanks, Drew, all noted. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window There's one of two methods that can be used for Access 2000. One method is to turn the Modal property of your forms to Yes (along with the Popup to Yes, which 97 also needs). However, you can also use the ShowWindow API, again, after you hide the Access window, to show the form again. The 'Always On Top' example database on my site does that, though it also sets the Zorder of the window to -1, which makes the form stay on top of all of the other windows on your desktop, which is probably overkill for what you want. One warning, when hiding Access, reports cannot be previewed. They can be printed, but if previewed, they will show up within the 'hidden' Access window. So if you are going to allow the users to preview reports, you will need to display the Access window for the user (just have the On close event of the reports hide Access again. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Quite amazing, Drew, but when converted to 2k it doesn't go exactly right - or it may be this computer. Anyway, I certainly see what you mean. Thank you. (I'll try to look it on another machine.) That's a very nice looking website. cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 5:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Okay Paul, my website is finally back up. Goto http://www.wolfwares.com and download the MiniCalendar database. It is in the Microsoft Access section, (MiniCalendar3.zip). It's an Access 97 database. Notice that when it starts, the form is on the desktop. No sign of Access at all. To 'show' Access, hit Ctrl-A (same to hide it again). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 10:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 5 08:47:37 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:47:37 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB0865065899@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> References: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB0865065899@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <9225530721.20040805154737@cactus.dk> Hi Brett >>You don't need the last I; Next will do. > While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for > readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with > nested loops. A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? Is that you Brett? /gustav PS: --------------Please open with care!------------ This message will bypass some of your spam filtering rules. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > --------------Please open with care!------------ This message has > bypassed some of our spam filtering rules. > This message was scanned for viruses and executable code has been > stripped. > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Hi Drew >> What's wrong with: >> For I=1 to 50 >> >> Next I > You don't need the last I; Next will do. > /gustav From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Thu Aug 5 09:10:34 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:10:34 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: Thanks very much, John. It looks very good. -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Paul, The way I handle this is to have a control on the form which exposes (is bound to) that field in the table, and is called the same thing on every form. In my case it is a Boolean value in the table, and thus a checkbox on the form. The checkboxes are always named chkActive and chkTrash on my forms (in my code). The code that intercepts the delete has access to the form. When the decision to actually perform the "delete" is made, MY code simply clears the active and sets the trash by programmatically manipulating those controls on the form. If you are using a "deleted" field and a text box called txtDeleted then the code would look something like: me!txtDeleted = -1 '(which is the numeric value for True By The Way) Me.dirty = false '(which saves that changed data) Me.Requery 'To cause the form to no longer display the "deleted" record. The form's query has a where clause Select MyData >From MyTable Where Deleted = False Since you just set Deleted = true and requeried the form, the data "disappears" One important thing here though is to NOT try and just capture a delete button click. You should use the BeforeDelete event in the form. In that you ask the question "are you sure", then you cancel the delete (you don't want a delete really happening) and you run the code that sets the Deleted text box, saves the change and requeries the form. The reason I caution against simply providing a delete button and trying to capture that click is that a record can be deleted by selecting the record and using the menu at the top (if the menu is exposed), selecting a record and hitting the delete key, etc. You want to capture ALL attempts to delete the data through the form regardless of how they figure out to perform that delete. Capturing the BeforeDelete event and doing it there guarantees that no deletes will be performed manually through that form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes I have a few minutes for this really interesting idea now. I have the field in the table, and the data type is Number. 1. I am not sure what is meant by "set the value for IsDeleted in that record to -1" (By a bit a coding?) 2. And - sorry - this escapes me too - "Then the form refreshes to NOT show records where IsDeleted =-1" (Via a query?) Be very pleased if you could let me know. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:43 AM -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu Aug 5 09:19:12 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:19:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589A@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> > A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? > Is that you Brett? Um, take a moment to read my response before jumping all over it. I said: > Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing > with nested loops. And yes, it does make a difference, even with a single loop. I don't have to scroll up a page of code to find the loop variable name, hence improved readability. But folks, Gustav is absolutely correct. It is not NECESSARY to specify the variable name in a Next statement. Nor is it NECESSARY to comment your code or use consistent naming conventions. Some of us just do these things for our own *special* reasons ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Hi Brett >>You don't need the last I; Next will do. > While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for > readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing > with nested loops. A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? Is that you Brett? /gustav PS: --------------Please open with care!------------ This message will bypass some of your spam filtering rules. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav > Brock > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > Hi Drew >> What's wrong with: >> For I=1 to 50 >> >> Next I > You don't need the last I; Next will do. > /gustav -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Aug 5 09:30:06 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 07:30:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <1088648045.20040805110614@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav: I will look around and see if I have a copy of the standards document, remove any direct references to the government and it can then be uploaded. It is actually only a few pages long. It was not that the lack of a signature lost the contract, because the contractor was well known to the contract review group...it was just a silly over-sight, that could have been easily rectified. It was that virtually anything could have lost a contractor's application bid, or any contractor, even though the contractor in question was a very competent applicant. My main issue was that competence and capability was not being used as the primary decision guide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 2:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Hi Jim > I had the pleasure of writing a document on how a reference document could > be written. It was later accepted as a standard. From that day on, all > fonts, weight, indentation of any application manuals had to adhere the > standard. All submissions were marked up or down by compliance. > That process goes doubly for coding. Every table, view, stored procedure > field, key and foreign key name must comply. So many lines of explanation > for every piece of code and so on. Sounds like a decent piece of work! Could it be (revised and) brought to the dba site as a guide? I mean, not (necessarily) a guide to follow, but to how such a guide could look and what you need to specify? > There are many good companies, with good developers out there. If one does > not what to comply there is no point in bidding on a contract. I have > witnessed a perspective contractor, with an otherwise, perfect bid loss a > contract on just a missed signature. What are you telling here? No signature, no contract - but why did the signature miss? /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From GregSmith at starband.net Thu Aug 5 09:57:52 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:57:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1534.216.43.21.235.1091717872.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi everyone... Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier post(s) about references and how to find broken ones (I don't have my list here at work so I don't have all the responses). I still have the references issue. And it may be because of how I'm starting the program or how I have the references set. There is only one right now that is giving me the PITA, and it's to mso97.dll in the Office directory. Hard to test that one too, because if you delete it, Access won't start. I can use the References.AddFromFile(...) code to set the reference. But there's a catch-22...if I don't have a reference to the MS Office 8.0 Object library, then the code: Dim cbr as CommandBar fails just before I can set the reference using: SetRef = References.AddFromFile("c:\program files\msoffice97\office\mso97.dll") Actually, in REAL life, I don't like using hard coded paths because in the other computers, who's to say they use this same path. And I just KNOW I'm going to run into this again because within the month I'm converting their entire system to Access XP. So, being more realistic...should I just trap the stinking error if the reference already exists and go on or is there a better philosophy about doing this altogether? I would really HATE to have to go onsite and SET each computer's individual references to the correct ones. THAT would redefine PITA. Probably close to 50 compters. Blech. Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 5 10:01:52 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:01:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589A@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> References: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589A@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <11829985466.20040805170152@cactus.dk> Hi Brett OK, it's not Friday yet but I did read what you wrote: especially. >> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing >> with nested loops. Had you written: >> Makes a huge difference when dealing with nested loops. I would have been silent. So, you would prefer the syntax: If I = 2 Then ' Do stuff End If I Now, did I qualify for joining Arthur's "Club of Pendants"?? /gustav >> A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? >> Is that you Brett? > Um, take a moment to read my response before jumping all over it. I > said: >> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing >> with nested loops. > And yes, it does make a difference, even with a single loop. I don't > have to scroll up a page of code to find the loop variable name, hence > improved readability. > But folks, Gustav is absolutely correct. It is not NECESSARY to specify > the variable name in a Next statement. Nor is it NECESSARY to comment > your code or use consistent naming conventions. Some of us just do > these things for our own *special* reasons ;-) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:48 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > Hi Brett >>>You don't need the last I; Next will do. >> While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for >> readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing >> with nested loops. > A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? > Is that you Brett? > /gustav > PS: > --------------Please open with care!------------ This message will > bypass some of your spam filtering rules. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav >> Brock >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Hi Drew >>> What's wrong with: >>> For I=1 to 50 >>> >>> Next I >> You don't need the last I; Next will do. >> /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 5 10:07:37 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:07:37 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16430331374.20040805170737@cactus.dk> Hi Jim > I will look around and see if I have a copy of the standards document, > remove any direct references to the government and it can then be uploaded. > It is actually only a few pages long. Great! Is Susan still the editor in charge? > It was not that the lack of a signature lost the contract, because the > contractor was well known to the contract review group...it was just a silly > over-sight, that could have been easily rectified. It was that virtually > anything could have lost a contractor's application bid, or any contractor, > even though the contractor in question was a very competent applicant. My > main issue was that competence and capability was not being used as the > primary decision guide. OK, now I got your point. And it is right, people sometimes forget that the client's primary decision guides can be quite different from what you think. /gustav >> I had the pleasure of writing a document on how a reference document could >> be written. It was later accepted as a standard. From that day on, all >> fonts, weight, indentation of any application manuals had to adhere the >> standard. All submissions were marked up or down by compliance. >> That process goes doubly for coding. Every table, view, stored procedure >> field, key and foreign key name must comply. So many lines of explanation >> for every piece of code and so on. > Sounds like a decent piece of work! Could it be (revised and) brought > to the dba site as a guide? I mean, not (necessarily) a guide to > follow, but to how such a guide could look and what you need to > specify? >> There are many good companies, with good developers out there. If one does >> not what to comply there is no point in bidding on a contract. I have >> witnessed a perspective contractor, with an otherwise, perfect bid loss a >> contract on just a missed signature. > What are you telling here? No signature, no contract - but why did the > signature miss? > /gustav From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu Aug 5 10:55:05 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:55:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589C@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> > I would have been silent. Wow! I actually found something that would silence Gustav. Gotta make a note of that... ;-) > So, you would prefer the syntax: > If I = 2 Then > ' Do stuff > End If I Two points here: First of all, that's not valid VB(A) syntax, so it's pretty hard to truly comment on what I "prefer", since I couldn't have possibly used that construct and formulated an opinion based on experience. Right??? However, this is an easy one since your example is clearly not analogous to what I stated. A For...Next loop corresponds to a single loop variable. If statements, Do...While loops, etc. are tied to conditions (I = 2, strLastName = "Jones", etc.), not variables. If I place the letter I next to the End If, it isn't very helpful since it is the condition (I = 2) that is the basis of the code block. Repeating the entire condition string at the bottom of the block would be far too wordy and the code maintainance required would outweigh its benefit. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Hi Brett OK, it's not Friday yet but I did read what you wrote: especially. >> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. Had you written: >> Makes a huge difference when dealing with nested loops. I would have been silent. So, you would prefer the syntax: If I = 2 Then ' Do stuff End If I Now, did I qualify for joining Arthur's "Club of Pendants"?? /gustav >> A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? >> Is that you Brett? > Um, take a moment to read my response before jumping all over it. I > said: >> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. > And yes, it does make a difference, even with a single loop. I don't > have to scroll up a page of code to find the loop variable name, hence > improved readability. > But folks, Gustav is absolutely correct. It is not NECESSARY to > specify the variable name in a Next statement. Nor is it NECESSARY to > comment your code or use consistent naming conventions. Some of us > just do these things for our own *special* reasons ;-) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav > Brock > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:48 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > Hi Brett >>>You don't need the last I; Next will do. >> While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for >> readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing >> with nested loops. > A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? > Is that you Brett? > /gustav > PS: > --------------Please open with care!------------ This message will > bypass some of your spam filtering rules. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav >> Brock >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Hi Drew >>> What's wrong with: >>> For I=1 to 50 >>> >>> Next I >> You don't need the last I; Next will do. >> /gustav -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 5 11:22:54 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 12:22:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB21D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <009c01c47b08$764b2ed0$6601a8c0@rock> Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 5 11:57:05 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 18:57:05 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589C@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> References: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589C@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <3236898437.20040805185705@cactus.dk> Hi Brett >> I would have been silent. > Wow! I actually found something that would silence Gustav. Gotta make > a note of that... ;-) >> So, you would prefer the syntax: >> If I = 2 Then >> ' Do stuff >> End If I > Two points here: > First of all, that's not valid VB(A) syntax, so it's pretty hard to > truly comment on what I "prefer", since I couldn't have possibly used > that construct and formulated an opinion based on experience. Right??? Of course. I was moving along the tangent of Arthur's notes about "revised" syntax on the dba-tech list. > However, this is an easy one since your example is clearly not analogous > to what I stated. > A For...Next loop corresponds to a single loop variable. If statements, > Do...While loops, etc. are tied to conditions (I = 2, strLastName = > "Jones", etc.), not variables. If I place the letter I next to the End > If, it isn't very helpful since it is the condition (I = 2) that is the > basis of the code block. You are right about the Do .. Until loop. However, I find it very analogous to For I = 1 To 50 ' Do stuff Next I Also While .. Wend doesn't use it. Would you like: While N < 50 ' Do stuff Wend N > Repeating the entire condition string at the bottom of the block would > be far too wordy and the code maintainance required would outweigh its > benefit. Certainly. But I have thought about the Next (I) syntax. Though I seldom use nested loops and - when doing so - have found it very easy to keep track of the loops (I mean: one is indented inside another which is indented inside a third etc) I think that Next alone is more safe as it complete eliminates these classic typo errors: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next J or: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next I Using For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next Next prevents and completely eliminates these errors. And I have yet to see a code example where this could confuse a decent programmer. To cut it out: How could the nested For/For/For .. Next/Next/Next loops ever cause an error? /gustav > OK, it's not Friday yet but I did read what you wrote: especially. >>> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. > Had you written: >>> Makes a huge difference when dealing with nested loops. > I would have been silent. > So, you would prefer the syntax: > If I = 2 Then > ' Do stuff > End If I > Now, did I qualify for joining Arthur's "Club of Pendants"?? > /gustav >>> A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? >>> Is that you Brett? >> Um, take a moment to read my response before jumping all over it. I >> said: >>> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. >> And yes, it does make a difference, even with a single loop. I don't >> have to scroll up a page of code to find the loop variable name, hence >> improved readability. >> But folks, Gustav is absolutely correct. It is not NECESSARY to >> specify the variable name in a Next statement. Nor is it NECESSARY to >> comment your code or use consistent naming conventions. Some of us >> just do these things for our own *special* reasons ;-) >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav >> Brock >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:48 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Hi Brett >>>>You don't need the last I; Next will do. >>> While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for >>> readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing >>> with nested loops. >> A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? >> Is that you Brett? >> /gustav >> PS: >> --------------Please open with care!------------ This message will >> bypass some of your spam filtering rules. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav >>> Brock >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >>> Hi Drew >>>> What's wrong with: >>>> For I=1 to 50 >>>> >>>> Next I >>> You don't need the last I; Next will do. >>> /gustav From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 5 13:06:02 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:06:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <009c01c47b08$764b2ed0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040805180602.CCG1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I think is very typical of developers. I've found tech editors hate it and when generally make me rename my variable. They can be real sticklers. Susan H. Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 13:06:16 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:06:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Message-ID: Don't get me started on government contracts. I've had one since last year and have yet to be able to deliver the first project. They don't have time to tell me what they need and the purchase order expires at the end of August!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Hi Charlotte: I am speaking from the perspective of many of my clients. These are government organizations and their standards are very specific. It is either their way or the highway. With that said, there are of course variations within a theme but the latitude or creativity the developer can exercise is very limited by the technical standards manuals or by the senior government ITS project manager. You can bet that their view of artistic license is on the conservative side. I had the pleasure of writing a document on how a reference document could be written. It was later accepted as a standard. From that day on, all fonts, weight, indentation of any application manuals had to adhere the standard. All submissions were marked up or down by compliance. That process goes doubly for coding. Every table, view, stored procedure field, key and foreign key name must comply. So many lines of explanation for every piece of code and so on. There are many good companies, with good developers out there. If one does not what to comply there is no point in bidding on a contract. I have witnessed a perspective contractor, with an otherwise, perfect bid loss a contract on just a missed signature. It is definitely a buyer market and government clients are extremely rigid...On the other hand they pay very well. ...Betweeen $75 and $140 per hour which can be an excellent way go on even a small three month contract. :-) I may no be able to be bought but I can be rented. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? You're a masochist then. If I can't persuade the client that they're paying for my knowledge and expertise, then I get a new client. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Hi Roz: You pay the bills and the contractor is the payee. What ever you say goes. No matter how dumb I may feel the client's requests are, if it does not affect the functionality, it is my job to attempt to satisfy them...period. Bottom-line HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 13:08:04 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:08:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: It's also supposed to be faster because Access doesn't have to attempt to figure out what to increment. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 5:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >You don't need the last I; Next will do. While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions --------------Please open with care!------------ This message has bypassed some of our spam filtering rules. This message was scanned for viruses and executable code has been stripped. --------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Drew > What's wrong with: > For I=1 to 50 > > Next I You don't need the last I; Next will do. /gustav ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 13:11:17 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:11:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 Message-ID: Greg, It is logical that you cannot declare any objects before you verify the references. Even if the Office library isn't the one that's broken, you need to test the references before you do *anything* else, including declare object variables as anything but Object. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:58 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 Hi everyone... Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier post(s) about references and how to find broken ones (I don't have my list here at work so I don't have all the responses). I still have the references issue. And it may be because of how I'm starting the program or how I have the references set. There is only one right now that is giving me the PITA, and it's to mso97.dll in the Office directory. Hard to test that one too, because if you delete it, Access won't start. I can use the References.AddFromFile(...) code to set the reference. But there's a catch-22...if I don't have a reference to the MS Office 8.0 Object library, then the code: Dim cbr as CommandBar fails just before I can set the reference using: SetRef = References.AddFromFile("c:\program files\msoffice97\office\mso97.dll") Actually, in REAL life, I don't like using hard coded paths because in the other computers, who's to say they use this same path. And I just KNOW I'm going to run into this again because within the month I'm converting their entire system to Access XP. So, being more realistic...should I just trap the stinking error if the reference already exists and go on or is there a better philosophy about doing this altogether? I would really HATE to have to go onsite and SET each computer's individual references to the correct ones. THAT would redefine PITA. Probably close to 50 compters. Blech. Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 13:13:45 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:13:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 13:17:35 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:17:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Some of us developers hate it too, probably because you can't count on it being any particular datatype, no matter how any *individual* developer might use it. Wading through a long dBase or VAX routine that uses literally dozens of single letter variables in complex locational calcuations is enough to make you go postal! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I think is very typical of developers. I've found tech editors hate it and when generally make me rename my variable. They can be real sticklers. Susan H. Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 5 13:20:22 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:20:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB22C@main2.marlow.com> While Wend is just like Do Loop, however, in Do Loop, you can put the criteria at the top or bottom, but not both. In VBScript, you can't put anything after next. However, I see no problem with Next i still, because it doesn't harm anything. Also, while writing nested For Next loops, it helps me to remember where I am at when I do that: For i.... For j ..... For k .... Lots of code.... Next k 'Okay, done with k, let's take care of j Do something with j Next j 'okay, done with j, let's increment i Next i I wouldn't put those comments in, just what I'm thinking in my head as I'm coding... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Hi Brett >> I would have been silent. > Wow! I actually found something that would silence Gustav. Gotta make > a note of that... ;-) >> So, you would prefer the syntax: >> If I = 2 Then >> ' Do stuff >> End If I > Two points here: > First of all, that's not valid VB(A) syntax, so it's pretty hard to > truly comment on what I "prefer", since I couldn't have possibly used > that construct and formulated an opinion based on experience. Right??? Of course. I was moving along the tangent of Arthur's notes about "revised" syntax on the dba-tech list. > However, this is an easy one since your example is clearly not analogous > to what I stated. > A For...Next loop corresponds to a single loop variable. If statements, > Do...While loops, etc. are tied to conditions (I = 2, strLastName = > "Jones", etc.), not variables. If I place the letter I next to the End > If, it isn't very helpful since it is the condition (I = 2) that is the > basis of the code block. You are right about the Do .. Until loop. However, I find it very analogous to For I = 1 To 50 ' Do stuff Next I Also While .. Wend doesn't use it. Would you like: While N < 50 ' Do stuff Wend N > Repeating the entire condition string at the bottom of the block would > be far too wordy and the code maintainance required would outweigh its > benefit. Certainly. But I have thought about the Next (I) syntax. Though I seldom use nested loops and - when doing so - have found it very easy to keep track of the loops (I mean: one is indented inside another which is indented inside a third etc) I think that Next alone is more safe as it complete eliminates these classic typo errors: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next J or: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next I Using For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next Next prevents and completely eliminates these errors. And I have yet to see a code example where this could confuse a decent programmer. To cut it out: How could the nested For/For/For .. Next/Next/Next loops ever cause an error? /gustav > OK, it's not Friday yet but I did read what you wrote: especially. >>> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. > Had you written: >>> Makes a huge difference when dealing with nested loops. > I would have been silent. > So, you would prefer the syntax: > If I = 2 Then > ' Do stuff > End If I > Now, did I qualify for joining Arthur's "Club of Pendants"?? > /gustav >>> A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? >>> Is that you Brett? >> Um, take a moment to read my response before jumping all over it. I >> said: >>> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. >> And yes, it does make a difference, even with a single loop. I don't >> have to scroll up a page of code to find the loop variable name, hence >> improved readability. >> But folks, Gustav is absolutely correct. It is not NECESSARY to >> specify the variable name in a Next statement. Nor is it NECESSARY to >> comment your code or use consistent naming conventions. Some of us >> just do these things for our own *special* reasons ;-) >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav >> Brock >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:48 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Hi Brett >>>>You don't need the last I; Next will do. >>> While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for >>> readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing >>> with nested loops. >> A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? >> Is that you Brett? >> /gustav >> PS: >> --------------Please open with care!------------ This message will >> bypass some of your spam filtering rules. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav >>> Brock >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >>> Hi Drew >>>> What's wrong with: >>>> For I=1 to 50 >>>> >>>> Next I >>> You don't need the last I; Next will do. >>> /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 5 13:54:09 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:54:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <16430331374.20040805170737@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040805185410.BHCQ1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Great! Is Susan still the editor in charge? =========Well, I'm not really an editor, but I play one on the Internet. What do you need? Susan H. From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu Aug 5 13:54:18 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:54:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589D@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Gustav, This thread has to end for me. My paid project work is suffering, so here's my last shot at getting my point across. > I think that Next alone is more safe as it complete eliminates these classic typo errors: >For I = 1 To 10 > For J = 1 To 10 > Next I >Next I In Access 2.0, it gives me a "Next without For" compiler error. In Access 2003, VB6 and VB.NET, it me an "Invalid Next control variable reference" compiler error. I'm reasonably sure that there are no versions of VB or VBA that allow this bug to slip past the compiler. In all cases, the COMPILER eliminates the typo error. Still no chance of introducing runtime errors by using my syntax. More safe? From those big, bad compile-time errors? Gimme a break... Next! >Would you like: > > While N < 50 > ' Do stuff > Wend N No Sam, I would not like it in a box, with a fox, on a train, or in a plane. You're repeating the same tired argument with different keywords. As I said before (about the If statements and Do loops), this loop is controlled by a CONDITION, not a counter variable. True, the condition MAY involve the value of a single variable, but what about: ' Wait 1 second While GetTickCount() - lngStartCount < 1000 DoEvents Wend So to conclude, I feel that the extra effort of including the For counter variable with the Next statement is worth the effort because: A) It allows me to tell what block a Next block belongs to, without having to scroll up to the For statement. B) In cases of nested loops, it helps me to ensure that my code is placed within the proper loop. C) Using this syntax does not increase the possibility of runtime errors, but there is a minor chance that it may reduce them (see B). D) Although they are not required by the compiler, I consider them a best practice to improve code readability. As a team developer, I accept the fact that the people maintaining my code may not possess above average code-deciphering skills like Gustav, and instead tend towards average like myself. _I_ find it easier to read and maintain, and obviously there are others who do as well, or else it would have been deprecated in the syntax overhaul of VB.NET. Conversely, I haven't heard a reasonable argument why it would make code harder to read or maintain. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Hi Brett >> I would have been silent. > Wow! I actually found something that would silence Gustav. Gotta > make a note of that... ;-) >> So, you would prefer the syntax: >> If I = 2 Then >> ' Do stuff >> End If I > Two points here: > First of all, that's not valid VB(A) syntax, so it's pretty hard to > truly comment on what I "prefer", since I couldn't have possibly used > that construct and formulated an opinion based on experience. Right??? Of course. I was moving along the tangent of Arthur's notes about "revised" syntax on the dba-tech list. > However, this is an easy one since your example is clearly not > analogous to what I stated. > A For...Next loop corresponds to a single loop variable. If > statements, Do...While loops, etc. are tied to conditions (I = 2, > strLastName = "Jones", etc.), not variables. If I place the letter I > next to the End If, it isn't very helpful since it is the condition (I > = 2) that is the basis of the code block. You are right about the Do .. Until loop. However, I find it very analogous to For I = 1 To 50 ' Do stuff Next I Also While .. Wend doesn't use it. Would you like: While N < 50 ' Do stuff Wend N > Repeating the entire condition string at the bottom of the block would > be far too wordy and the code maintainance required would outweigh its > benefit. Certainly. But I have thought about the Next (I) syntax. Though I seldom use nested loops and - when doing so - have found it very easy to keep track of the loops (I mean: one is indented inside another which is indented inside a third etc) I think that Next alone is more safe as it complete eliminates these classic typo errors: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next J or: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next I Using For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next Next prevents and completely eliminates these errors. And I have yet to see a code example where this could confuse a decent programmer. To cut it out: How could the nested For/For/For .. Next/Next/Next loops ever cause an error? /gustav -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 5 14:11:11 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:11:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB22F@main2.marlow.com> Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kaupca at chevrontexaco.com Thu Aug 5 14:56:21 2004 From: kaupca at chevrontexaco.com (Kaup, Chester A) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:56:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: Select vs. Make Table query Message-ID: <193572B4E0FC1744BEDFEE63F82CEC9E02739646@bocnte2k4.boc.chevrontexaco.net> > When I run a select query vs. an attached Oracle table I get incorrect > results. When I ran the same query as a make table query I get the > correct results. I am doing a match of one field and returning one > field. Anyone seen this before or have any thoughts. > > Chester Kaup > Information Management Technician > IT-MidContinent/MidContinent Business Unit > CTN 8-687-7415 > Outside 432-687-7414 > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > From Drawbridge.Jack at ic.gc.ca Thu Aug 5 15:11:32 2004 From: Drawbridge.Jack at ic.gc.ca (Drawbridge.Jack at ic.gc.ca) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 16:11:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 and A2k with Oracle 9.0.1 Message-ID: <45C67756F7C0F942AD80AE35546F40C20DF7F63E@mb-bp-011.ic.gc.ca> I have 2 databases (1 access 97 , 1 access 2000) both using ODBC to Oracle Ora9.0.1 With Access 97' I can insert records containing memo fields (50 - 800 chars) into Oracle varchar2(4000) column without error. With A2K, similar records with memo fields fail with " ORA-1416 - can bind a long value only for insert into a LONG column." Does anyone have a solution/fix/wrkaround for this? TIA Jack From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 15:19:02 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:19:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 5 15:41:16 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:41:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB232@main2.marlow.com> Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 15:50:49 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:50:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Apparently I'm not making *myself* clear. What is the order of savings between the integer and the long in that loop, and who cares? Neither is going to be noticeable, but if your shop standards say you use the smallest possible datatype appropriate for the operation, then you use an integer for a loop that doesn't require a long. I prefer to avoid floating point creep, but a currency type is larger than a single, so I'm forced by our requirements to use a single where I would rather not. However, if I take the approach that we *always* use singles for this so I don't have to make it obvious, I am a NAUGHTY developer with a high and mighty attitude because I really should know that there is no such thing as ALWAYS and other developers have to be able to read my code without difficulty!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 16:49:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:49:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 5 16:52:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 16:52:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB234@main2.marlow.com> Hiss! As for the order of savings between a long integer and an integer: Private Sub Command1_Click() Dim i As Integer Dim j As Integer Dim dtTemp As Date dtTemp = Now() For i = 1 To 32000 For j = 1 To 32000 Next j Next i Me.Label1.Caption = (Now - dtTemp) * 24 * 60 * 60 End Sub Private Sub Command2_Click() Dim i As Long Dim j As Long Dim dtTemp As Date dtTemp = Now() For i = 1 To 32000 For j = 1 To 32000 Next j Next i Me.Label2.Caption = (Now - dtTemp) * 24 * 60 * 60 End Sub Produced a little more then 25 seconds for Command1 and just under 21 seconds for Command2. That would be aproximately 19% faster. Which isn't something that should be ignored. If you look at the speed versus size issue, are you calculating with the integers more then you are declaring them? (ie, if you run a for i=1 to 100, are you declaring 99 other integers, to save at least 400 bytes?) I then added k (Integer in Command1, and Long Integer in Command2), and compiled the project into an .exe. This time, the Integer took just shy of 12 seconds (11.99999) and the Long Integer too just shy of 6 seconds (5.9999999). So when compiled, the Long Integer is 100% faster then an Integer. I do understand shop constraints, which is why I like not being in a shop. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Apparently I'm not making *myself* clear. What is the order of savings between the integer and the long in that loop, and who cares? Neither is going to be noticeable, but if your shop standards say you use the smallest possible datatype appropriate for the operation, then you use an integer for a loop that doesn't require a long. I prefer to avoid floating point creep, but a currency type is larger than a single, so I'm forced by our requirements to use a single where I would rather not. However, if I take the approach that we *always* use singles for this so I don't have to make it obvious, I am a NAUGHTY developer with a high and mighty attitude because I really should know that there is no such thing as ALWAYS and other developers have to be able to read my code without difficulty!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 5 17:04:26 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 18:04:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB232@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <00d201c47b38$2cd729e0$6601a8c0@rock> You may well be right, Drew, but I can't get my computer to report a difference in the speeds, no matter how high I increase both boundaries. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu Aug 5 17:28:21 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 18:28:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589D@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <000301c47b3b$86f86850$0201a8c0@COA3> Just to throw in another, late, point on this, I do it this way: For I = 1 To 10 Next ' I I throw in the variable after an apostrophe, so it's there, but commented out because somewhere else in my life (VBS?) you *can't* put the variable after the Next because it throws an error. This one method works on both. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 2:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Gustav, This thread has to end for me. My paid project work is suffering, so here's my last shot at getting my point across. > I think that Next alone is more safe as it complete eliminates these classic typo errors: >For I = 1 To 10 > For J = 1 To 10 > Next I >Next I In Access 2.0, it gives me a "Next without For" compiler error. In Access 2003, VB6 and VB.NET, it me an "Invalid Next control variable reference" compiler error. I'm reasonably sure that there are no versions of VB or VBA that allow this bug to slip past the compiler. In all cases, the COMPILER eliminates the typo error. Still no chance of introducing runtime errors by using my syntax. More safe? From those big, bad compile-time errors? Gimme a break... Next! >Would you like: > > While N < 50 > ' Do stuff > Wend N No Sam, I would not like it in a box, with a fox, on a train, or in a plane. You're repeating the same tired argument with different keywords. As I said before (about the If statements and Do loops), this loop is controlled by a CONDITION, not a counter variable. True, the condition MAY involve the value of a single variable, but what about: ' Wait 1 second While GetTickCount() - lngStartCount < 1000 DoEvents Wend So to conclude, I feel that the extra effort of including the For counter variable with the Next statement is worth the effort because: A) It allows me to tell what block a Next block belongs to, without having to scroll up to the For statement. B) In cases of nested loops, it helps me to ensure that my code is placed within the proper loop. C) Using this syntax does not increase the possibility of runtime errors, but there is a minor chance that it may reduce them (see B). D) Although they are not required by the compiler, I consider them a best practice to improve code readability. As a team developer, I accept the fact that the people maintaining my code may not possess above average code-deciphering skills like Gustav, and instead tend towards average like myself. _I_ find it easier to read and maintain, and obviously there are others who do as well, or else it would have been deprecated in the syntax overhaul of VB.NET. Conversely, I haven't heard a reasonable argument why it would make code harder to read or maintain. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Hi Brett >> I would have been silent. > Wow! I actually found something that would silence Gustav. Gotta > make a note of that... ;-) >> So, you would prefer the syntax: >> If I = 2 Then >> ' Do stuff >> End If I > Two points here: > First of all, that's not valid VB(A) syntax, so it's pretty hard to > truly comment on what I "prefer", since I couldn't have possibly used > that construct and formulated an opinion based on experience. Right??? Of course. I was moving along the tangent of Arthur's notes about "revised" syntax on the dba-tech list. > However, this is an easy one since your example is clearly not > analogous to what I stated. > A For...Next loop corresponds to a single loop variable. If > statements, Do...While loops, etc. are tied to conditions (I = 2, > strLastName = "Jones", etc.), not variables. If I place the letter I > next to the End If, it isn't very helpful since it is the condition (I > = 2) that is the basis of the code block. You are right about the Do .. Until loop. However, I find it very analogous to For I = 1 To 50 ' Do stuff Next I Also While .. Wend doesn't use it. Would you like: While N < 50 ' Do stuff Wend N > Repeating the entire condition string at the bottom of the block would > be far too wordy and the code maintainance required would outweigh its > benefit. Certainly. But I have thought about the Next (I) syntax. Though I seldom use nested loops and - when doing so - have found it very easy to keep track of the loops (I mean: one is indented inside another which is indented inside a third etc) I think that Next alone is more safe as it complete eliminates these classic typo errors: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next J or: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next I Using For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next Next prevents and completely eliminates these errors. And I have yet to see a code example where this could confuse a decent programmer. To cut it out: How could the nested For/For/For .. Next/Next/Next loops ever cause an error? /gustav ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 5 17:54:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:54:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB235@main2.marlow.com> Do you have a 64 bit processor, by chance? If you do, then they would take the same amount of time. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 5:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You may well be right, Drew, but I can't get my computer to report a difference in the speeds, no matter how high I increase both boundaries. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 5 18:02:55 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 09:02:55 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4113493F.30389.1C8EC69@lexacorp.com.pg> On 5 Aug 2004 at 14:49, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but > I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has > anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > When something breaks regularly after hundreds of iterations, it is almost always caused by a memory leak. Watch how much memeroy the app is using during execution with Task Manager or PerfMon. Double check that you are explicitly destroying any object variables you create. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 18:24:57 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 16:24:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: Believe me, I know that and that was my first thought ... A week ago. I checked and double checked to make sure the objects are destroyed. I personally write code to destroy them right after I write the declarations, but I've also checked the code written or edited by the rest of the crew to see if I could spot anything. This is making me crazy because there never is an out of memory message, and memory usage in TaskManager is normal. That rhythmic thumping you hear is my head beating against the wall! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 On 5 Aug 2004 at 14:49, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, > but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. > Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > When something breaks regularly after hundreds of iterations, it is almost always caused by a memory leak. Watch how much memeroy the app is using during execution with Task Manager or PerfMon. Double check that you are explicitly destroying any object variables you create. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 5 18:28:44 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 09:28:44 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB234@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <41134F4C.7081.1E0902B@lexacorp.com.pg> On 5 Aug 2004 at 16:52, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > I then added k (Integer in Command1, and Long Integer in Command2), and > compiled the project into an .exe. This time, the Integer took just shy of > 12 seconds (11.99999) and the Long Integer too just shy of 6 seconds > (5.9999999). So when compiled, the Long Integer is 100% faster then an > Integer. > > I do understand shop constraints, which is why I like not being in a shop. > > Nope, you and I just like being the ones to design the constraints for our own one man shops :-) We both have a shop constraint of "Always use 32 bit datatypes unless required to do otherwise by an API" :-) From KP at sdsonline.net Thu Aug 5 19:18:25 2004 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:18:25 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Message-ID: <00a101c47b4a$e4345dd0$6401a8c0@user> Here's a Friday rant - is there a reason that people are replying to emails and putting their response at the bottom of the message instead of at the top? It's so much harder to quickly read through - you have to scroll down and find the response. I know that sometimes you have to do this when you are replying to different *parts* of the message - but otherwise - what the reason? Kath From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 5 19:52:42 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 10:52:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <00a101c47b4a$e4345dd0$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <411362FA.11819.22D6DC8@lexacorp.com.pg> On 6 Aug 2004 at 10:18, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Here's a Friday rant - is there a reason that people are replying to > emails and putting their response at the bottom of the message instead > of at the top? It's so much harder to quickly read through - you have > to scroll down and find the response. > > I know that sometimes you have to do this when you are replying to > different *parts* of the message - but otherwise - what the reason? > My rant would be: Why do people insist on "Top posting" and including *all* of the previous message(s) below their response. The following is stolen from: Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting By A. Smit and H.W. de Haan http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html 1. Because it is proper Usenet Etiquette. Check out the following URL: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html . It is a little outdated but still has a lot of valid points. Let us quote something from this site: If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just enough text of the original to give a context. This will make sure readers understand when they start to read your response. Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context helps everyone. But do not include the entire original! 2. We use a good news reader like Forte Agent. Good newsreaders like Agent put the signature by default at the end of the post, which is the Usenet convention. Microsoft Outlook Express however has some serious bugs. Let us quote someone we know: "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge We are programmers ourselves, and we know it is very easy to implement to put a signature at the end of the post instead of putting it directly above the post you are replying to and can not change the position. Forte Agent has as a feature that reply to a post it will remove the signature (recognizable by '-- ', note the extra space) and everything below it, so it will remove a part of the original message. This is good Usenet practice so Agent is not faulty. Outlook Express on the other hand is faulty, check this bugreport regarding the Usenet signature delimiter. If you want to try Agent, you can get it here. 3. Top-posting makes posts incomprehensible. Firstly: In normal conversations, one does not answer to something that has not yet been said. So it is unclear to reply to the top, whilst the original message is at the bottom. Secondly: In western society a book is normally read from top to bottom. Top-posting forces one to stray from this convention: Reading some at the top, skipping to the bottom to read the question, and going back to the top to continue. This annoyance increases even more than linear with the number of top-posts in the message. If someone replies to a thread and you forgot what the thread was all about, or that thread was incomplete for some reasons, it will be quite tiresome to rapidly understand what the thread was all about, due to bad posting and irrelevant text which has not been removed. 4. To prevent hideously long posts with a minimal account of new text, it is good Usenet practice to remove the non-relevant parts and optionally summarize the relevant parts of the original post, with regard to one's reply. Top- posting inevitably leads to long posts, because most top-posters leave the original message intact. All these long posts not only clutter up discussions, but they also clutter up the server space. 5. Top-posting makes it hard for bottom-posters to reply to the relevant parts: it not possible to answer within the original message. Bottom-posting does not make top-posting any harder. 6. Some people will argue that quoting looks bad due line wrapping. This can simply be dealt with by dropping Outlook Express as a start, and using only linewidths of 65 - 70 characters. Otherwise one has do it manually, and that can be tiresome. 7. A reason given by stubborn top-posters: they don't like to scroll to read the new message. We like to disagree here, because we always have to scroll down to see the original message and after that to scroll back up, just to see to what they are replying to. As a result you have to scroll twice as much when reading a top-poster's message. As a counterargument they say (believe us they do): "You can check the previous message in the discussion". This is even more tiresome than scrolling and with the unreliable nature of Usenet (and even email is inevitably unreliable), the previous message in the discussion can be simply unavailable. 8. Some newsgroups have strict conventions concerning posting in their charter. As an example we can tell you that in most Dutch newsgroups, you will be warned, killfiled or maybe even flamed, if you fail to follow Usenet conventions or if you do not quote according to the quoting guidelines. In general: it is better to practice the guidelines, if one does not want to get flamed in a newsgroup one just subscribed to. We can conclude that there are no good reasons we know of for top-posting. The most top-posts originate from the minimal work people spend on making posts. We think that one should be proud of one's post, that is it contains relevant content, well-formed sentences and no irrelevant 'bullsh*t', before uploading to your newsserver. If the majority of the group will adhere to this convention, the group will be nicer, tidier and easier to read. As a final remark we want to bring non-quoting into mind. This means that the original content of an email or Usenet post is completely removed. It makes it very hard for a reader to find out to what and whom one is replying. This phenomenon can be partly attributed to wrong settings of news- and email- clients, and partly to people who want to start with clean replies. Special thanks goes to P. Knutsen and P. Roskin for giving constructive feedback -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Thu Aug 5 20:17:23 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 21:17:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions References: <41134F4C.7081.1E0902B@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <02b101c47b53$232732d0$6401a8c0@default> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 7:28 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > On 5 Aug 2004 at 16:52, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > > > I then added k (Integer in Command1, and Long Integer in Command2), and > > compiled the project into an .exe. This time, the Integer took just shy of > > 12 seconds (11.99999) and the Long Integer too just shy of 6 seconds > > (5.9999999). So when compiled, the Long Integer is 100% faster then an > > Integer. > > > > I do understand shop constraints, which is why I like not being in a shop. > > > > > > Nope, you and I just like being the ones to design the constraints for our own > one man shops :-) > > We both have a shop constraint of "Always use 32 bit datatypes unless > required to do otherwise by an API" > > :-) And, as long as you're not using VB.Net, you can still say DefLng A,Z ... ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com From KP at sdsonline.net Thu Aug 5 20:42:02 2004 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:42:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message References: <411362FA.11819.22D6DC8@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <00f001c47b56$923e5920$6401a8c0@user> Interesting - but I completely disagree. Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them scroll all the way down to see the latest data? I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and for a list like this where we have already read the original post we only want to read the reply. I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this topic? Kath From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 5 21:04:07 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 12:04:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <00f001c47b56$923e5920$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <411373B7.28075.26ED0AC@lexacorp.com.pg> On 6 Aug 2004 at 11:42, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Interesting - but I completely disagree. > > Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous > form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them > scroll all the way down to see the latest data? > When Access adds a new record to a continuous form/table/query does it add it at the top or the bottom? A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation. Q. Why is top posting bad? > I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and > for a list like this where we have already read the original post we > only want to read the reply And with a long thread with lots of different opinions and branches? Take recent thread about "RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions". Top posts became very difficult to follow. Once the discussion had split off into Integers v Longs, there was no way of telling what the respondent is responding to without scrolling down and then back up again. > > I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most > 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. There's plenty of that. Try gooling ["top posting" "bottom posting"] > I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this > topic? > I know what I'd like it to be -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 5 21:20:25 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 19:20:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message References: <411362FA.11819.22D6DC8@lexacorp.com.pg> <00f001c47b56$923e5920$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <4112EAE9.6090701@shaw.ca> Top Poster are Evil. Kath Pelletti wrote: >Interesting - but I completely disagree. > >Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them scroll all the way down to see the latest data? > >I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and for a list like this where we have already read the original post we only want to read the reply. > >I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this topic? > >Kath > > Bottom poster are even eviler. You have to read all the legal disclaimers and ads to find the message. -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From KP at sdsonline.net Thu Aug 5 21:31:47 2004 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:31:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message References: <411373B7.28075.26ED0AC@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000901c47b5d$85779c40$6401a8c0@user> When Access adds a new record to a continuous form/table/query does it add it at the top or the bottom? A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation. But what would we all *like* it to do? We all write code to reverse it...... Nice talking to you Stuart - I am going to leave this thread - I fear that the result is going to be that everyone starts bottom posting and I'll bitterly regret raising the topic!! Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart McLachlan To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message On 6 Aug 2004 at 11:42, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Interesting - but I completely disagree. > > Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous > form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them > scroll all the way down to see the latest data? > When Access adds a new record to a continuous form/table/query does it add it at the top or the bottom? A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation. Q. Why is top posting bad? > I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and > for a list like this where we have already read the original post we > only want to read the reply And with a long thread with lots of different opinions and branches? Take recent thread about "RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions". Top posts became very difficult to follow. Once the discussion had split off into Integers v Longs, there was no way of telling what the respondent is responding to without scrolling down and then back up again. > > I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most > 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. There's plenty of that. Try gooling ["top posting" "bottom posting"] > I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this > topic? > I know what I'd like it to be -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Thu Aug 5 23:20:24 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:20:24 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs Message-ID: <010a01c47b6c$b247a260$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all I have a crosstab working fine. I have the criteria for this CrossTab typed directly (IE Hardcoded) into the Criteria portion of the relevant column in the Query Design grid If I replace that criteria with say Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID and then run the Crosstab I get an error that says ... The Microsoft Jet Database Engine does not recognise "Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID" as a valid field name or expression The cross tab is fed by a query not a table - So I went to the underlying 'feeder query'... and put in Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID into the 'feeder. Then ran the crosstab again... Same result - same error message. But if I run the 'feeder query' by itself using the Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID in the criteria portion of the grid - all is OK Is it the case that Crosstabs can't handle changeable or form bound criterias? Many thanks in advance Darren From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 5 23:42:12 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 14:42:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs In-Reply-To: <010a01c47b6c$b247a260$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <411398C4.29934.2FF8DF5@lexacorp.com.pg> On 6 Aug 2004 at 14:20, Darren DICK wrote: > > The cross tab is fed by a query not a table - So I went to the underlying 'feeder query'... > and put in Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID into the 'feeder. Then ran the crosstab again... > Same result - same error message. > But if I run the 'feeder query' by itself using the Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID in the criteria portion of the grid - all is OK > > Is it the case that Crosstabs can't handle changeable or form bound criterias? > Yep, this problem bites in a number of situations. My standard solution is to use a static function to store the content of the form's control and use that in the query. Put the following function in a module: Static Function StoredVariable(Optional varInput As Variant) As Variant Dim varStore As Variant 'Initialise the variant if the function is called 'the first time with no Input If IsEmpty(varStore) Then varStore = Null 'Update the store if the Input is present If Not IsMissing(varInput) Then varStore = varInput 'return the stored value StoredVariable = varStore End Function In the query, replace "Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID " with "=StoredVariable()" Then put "StoredVariable Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID" or "returnvalue = StoredVariable(Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID)" in code somewhere before you call the query. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From d.dick at uws.edu.au Thu Aug 5 23:59:20 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:59:20 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs References: <411398C4.29934.2FF8DF5@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <011501c47b72$2222f120$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Stuart many thanks for the prompt reply Does this also work with dates? EG StoredVariable >=Forms!frmReports!txtStartDate and <= Forms!frmReportstxtEndDAte Many thanks Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs > On 6 Aug 2004 at 14:20, Darren DICK wrote: > > > > The cross tab is fed by a query not a table - So I went to the underlying 'feeder query'... > > and put in Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID into the 'feeder. Then ran the crosstab again... > > Same result - same error message. > > But if I run the 'feeder query' by itself using the Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID in the criteria portion of the grid - all is OK > > > > Is it the case that Crosstabs can't handle changeable or form bound criterias? > > > > Yep, this problem bites in a number of situations. > > My standard solution is to use a static function to store the content of > the form's control and use that in the query. > > Put the following function in a module: > > Static Function StoredVariable(Optional varInput As Variant) As Variant > Dim varStore As Variant > > 'Initialise the variant if the function is called > 'the first time with no Input > If IsEmpty(varStore) Then varStore = Null > > 'Update the store if the Input is present > If Not IsMissing(varInput) Then varStore = varInput > > 'return the stored value > StoredVariable = varStore > End Function > > In the query, replace "Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID " with > "=StoredVariable()" > > Then put > "StoredVariable Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID" > or "returnvalue = StoredVariable(Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID)" > in code somewhere before you call the query. > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Aug 6 00:07:02 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 15:07:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs In-Reply-To: <011501c47b72$2222f120$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <41139E96.31093.316494B@lexacorp.com.pg> On 6 Aug 2004 at 14:59, Darren DICK wrote: > Hi Stuart > many thanks for the prompt reply > > Does this also work with dates? Yes, I wrote it to store variants so it doesn't matter what data type you are working with. > EG > StoredVariable >=Forms!frmReports!txtStartDate and <= Forms!frmReportstxtEndDAte > No can't do that , If you have two variables, you will need two stores so create two functions StoredVariable1() and StoredVariable2(). Put Startdate in one, Enddate in the other and set the query criteria to "Between StoredVariable1() and StoredVariable2()" -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From kathryn at bassett.net Fri Aug 6 00:13:26 2004 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 22:13:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <000901c47b5d$85779c40$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <3a5h63$5bsumv@mxip11a.cluster1.charter.net> Kath Pelletti said: > Nice talking to you Stuart - I am going to leave this thread > - I fear that the result is going to be that everyone starts > bottom posting and I'll bitterly regret raising the topic!! Kath, I do it the same way that Stuart does - interspersing quotes and my comments. Once in a while, I'll get lazy and top post, but I always feel guilty when I do, as I realize it IS lazyness that makes me do it. What gripes me is the people who, regardless of top or bottom posting, will quote the entire message and not edit it so that the reply is only to the pertinant part. This message is an example of the right way (IMO) to do that. I only quoted the one paragraph of your message and dumped the rest of the message. Kathryn (I don't shorten mine) Oh, and I use Outlook, and don't have my signature set to automatic, instead I "insert" it (as I have several that are pertinant for specific lists). The one below is my general one. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net From d.dick at uws.edu.au Fri Aug 6 00:28:18 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:28:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs References: <41139E96.31093.316494B@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <012401c47b76$2e7678d0$48619a89@DDICK> Excellent But when I type StoredVariable >=Forms!frmReports!txtStartDate and <= Forms!frmReports!txtEndDAte in say... The OnOpen of the relevant for before I run the crodstab the line in the VBE goes RED and if I run a Debug it highlights that line and says syntax error I have tried enclosing the criteria portion of the line in quotes but that essentially turns it into a string syntax not a dynamc syntax What should I do next? I am most grateful for your efforts and time Many thanks Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs > On 6 Aug 2004 at 14:59, Darren DICK wrote: > > > Hi Stuart > > many thanks for the prompt reply > > > > Does this also work with dates? > Yes, I wrote it to store variants so it doesn't matter what data type you > are working with. > > > EG > > StoredVariable >=Forms!frmReports!txtStartDate and <= Forms!frmReportstxtEndDAte > > > > No can't do that , If you have two variables, you will need two stores so > create two functions StoredVariable1() and StoredVariable2(). > > Put Startdate in one, Enddate in the other and set the query criteria to > "Between StoredVariable1() and StoredVariable2()" > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Fri Aug 6 00:32:46 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:32:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs References: <411398C4.29934.2FF8DF5@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <014c01c47b76$ce4ebac0$48619a89@DDICK> OOps Just re-read the last post Hang on I'll let you know how I go DArren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs > On 6 Aug 2004 at 14:20, Darren DICK wrote: > > > > The cross tab is fed by a query not a table - So I went to the underlying 'feeder query'... > > and put in Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID into the 'feeder. Then ran the crosstab again... > > Same result - same error message. > > But if I run the 'feeder query' by itself using the Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID in the criteria portion of the grid - all is OK > > > > Is it the case that Crosstabs can't handle changeable or form bound criterias? > > > > Yep, this problem bites in a number of situations. > > My standard solution is to use a static function to store the content of > the form's control and use that in the query. > > Put the following function in a module: > > Static Function StoredVariable(Optional varInput As Variant) As Variant > Dim varStore As Variant > > 'Initialise the variant if the function is called > 'the first time with no Input > If IsEmpty(varStore) Then varStore = Null > > 'Update the store if the Input is present > If Not IsMissing(varInput) Then varStore = varInput > > 'return the stored value > StoredVariable = varStore > End Function > > In the query, replace "Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID " with > "=StoredVariable()" > > Then put > "StoredVariable Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID" > or "returnvalue = StoredVariable(Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID)" > in code somewhere before you call the query. > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Fri Aug 6 00:56:58 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:56:58 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs References: <411398C4.29934.2FF8DF5@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <016201c47b7a$2f9c5e60$48619a89@DDICK> Stuart you da man!!!!! Thanks you so much this was really making life difficult for me Now 'tis simple and the users have 'dynamic' charts Thank you so so much This list is Awesome Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs > On 6 Aug 2004 at 14:20, Darren DICK wrote: > > > > The cross tab is fed by a query not a table - So I went to the underlying 'feeder query'... > > and put in Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID into the 'feeder. Then ran the crosstab again... > > Same result - same error message. > > But if I run the 'feeder query' by itself using the Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID in the criteria portion of the grid - all is OK > > > > Is it the case that Crosstabs can't handle changeable or form bound criterias? > > > > Yep, this problem bites in a number of situations. > > My standard solution is to use a static function to store the content of > the form's control and use that in the query. > > Put the following function in a module: > > Static Function StoredVariable(Optional varInput As Variant) As Variant > Dim varStore As Variant > > 'Initialise the variant if the function is called > 'the first time with no Input > If IsEmpty(varStore) Then varStore = Null > > 'Update the store if the Input is present > If Not IsMissing(varInput) Then varStore = varInput > > 'return the stored value > StoredVariable = varStore > End Function > > In the query, replace "Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID " with > "=StoredVariable()" > > Then put > "StoredVariable Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID" > or "returnvalue = StoredVariable(Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID)" > in code somewhere before you call the query. > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Fri Aug 6 03:12:18 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:12:18 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF7334@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Hi I have 2 Access programs that executes on my server every 5 minutes and that among things also opens Outlook to rchive E-mails. The thing is that these apps have run in A2K fine with no problems for years and now with A2K3 give 1 or more sporadic crashes a day. For 1 type of crash I know its connected with sending a fax trough outlook (GFI Faxmaker for Exchange) but the other crashes are totaly random. BUT in both type crashes it is always Outlook that crashes. I was hoping that SP1 for Office 2K3 would solve this issue, but it does not. So my question is not for solving these crashes, they apear to me to be a bug in Outlook, I already invested a lot of time to find a solution. The question is, How can I turn of the Office Crash Analisys. Because each time Access or Outlook crashes, I have to manualy intervean to click on send report. My task sheduler will not continue to exexcute the Access programs (none of both) until this chrash thing is solved. So I believe if the Crash analisys is "off" or at least automaticaly disapears I can sleep again at night... Erwin From mgauk at btconnect.com Fri Aug 6 03:08:23 2004 From: mgauk at btconnect.com (Max14-1) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:08:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <000901c47b5d$85779c40$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <200408060814.i768E1Q01532@databaseadvisors.com> I personally NEVER read a message that is bottom posted. If I cannot see at a glance (Outlook with Reading Pane) what the message is about, then I just dump it. There is no way that I personally have to time to scroll down each and every message to see what the latest input is. I would also prefer to have ALL the history repeated - regardless of bandwith. Again, due to time restraints, if I do take an interest in a subject but it is missing some essential item of information, then I just dump it. This is almost always the case where I see a comment. That?s my take on it. Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: 06 August 2004 03:32 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message When Access adds a new record to a continuous form/table/query does it add it at the top or the bottom? A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation. But what would we all *like* it to do? We all write code to reverse it...... Nice talking to you Stuart - I am going to leave this thread - I fear that the result is going to be that everyone starts bottom posting and I'll bitterly regret raising the topic!! Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart McLachlan To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message On 6 Aug 2004 at 11:42, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Interesting - but I completely disagree. > > Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous > form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them > scroll all the way down to see the latest data? > When Access adds a new record to a continuous form/table/query does it add it at the top or the bottom? A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation. Q. Why is top posting bad? > I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and > for a list like this where we have already read the original post we > only want to read the reply And with a long thread with lots of different opinions and branches? Take recent thread about "RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions". Top posts became very difficult to follow. Once the discussion had split off into Integers v Longs, there was no way of telling what the respondent is responding to without scrolling down and then back up again. > > I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most > 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. There's plenty of that. Try gooling ["top posting" "bottom posting"] > I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this > topic? > I know what I'd like it to be -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 From mgauk at btconnect.com Fri Aug 6 03:16:19 2004 From: mgauk at btconnect.com (MG) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:16:19 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200408060818.i768I0Q10985@databaseadvisors.com> There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may hold some answers for you. Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Cc: Steve White Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri Aug 6 03:25:20 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 9:25:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <20040806082518.27DBC25D7DA@smtp.nildram.co.uk> I've posted this on dba-Tech but copying here for wider coverage. I'd appreciate it if answers were to dba-Tech or, if you aren't subbbed to that (and don't want to), to me off-list. ---------------------------------- W2K as usual. I want to edit the registry to lock down some functionality for a specific user on a machine. I feel, howeverr, that I'm in a tricky situation. AFAIK I can only edit a user's settings whilst logged on as them (i.e. via HKCU). So I have to make sure that that user can do a regedit. One of the reg changes I want is to remove the Run from the Start Menu. I can do that but once I do that how will I ever be able to get back in to change that user's reg settings? By definition if they can't edit the registry then neither can I when logged on as them. But neither can I edit HKCU for THEM when logged on as ME. Any ideas? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From mgauk at btconnect.com Fri Aug 6 03:26:45 2004 From: mgauk at btconnect.com (MG) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:26:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF7334@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <200408060827.i768R4Q21243@databaseadvisors.com> Go to "Start/Help" Search for "report errors" and follow the leads. Basically it is in your System setting. You can stop all error reports, or select which progams to report/not report on. (Control Panel / System / Advanced Tab / Error Reporting - bottom right) Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: 06 August 2004 09:12 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys Hi I have 2 Access programs that executes on my server every 5 minutes and that among things also opens Outlook to rchive E-mails. The thing is that these apps have run in A2K fine with no problems for years and now with A2K3 give 1 or more sporadic crashes a day. For 1 type of crash I know its connected with sending a fax trough outlook (GFI Faxmaker for Exchange) but the other crashes are totaly random. BUT in both type crashes it is always Outlook that crashes. I was hoping that SP1 for Office 2K3 would solve this issue, but it does not. So my question is not for solving these crashes, they apear to me to be a bug in Outlook, I already invested a lot of time to find a solution. The question is, How can I turn of the Office Crash Analisys. Because each time Access or Outlook crashes, I have to manualy intervean to click on send report. My task sheduler will not continue to exexcute the Access programs (none of both) until this chrash thing is solved. So I believe if the Crash analisys is "off" or at least automaticaly disapears I can sleep again at night... Erwin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 From mgauk at btconnect.com Fri Aug 6 03:35:14 2004 From: mgauk at btconnect.com (MG) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:35:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200408060835.i768ZJQ29807@databaseadvisors.com> Access doesn't have to do any figuring. It just pops the stack. My take is that if it is a small coded loop, then I don't add the loopname, otherwise I do, 'cos 1-It aids readability, 2-It helps me keep track of where I am as I am adding the, 3-It also helps with the 'Elseifs' (Yep, I put them there as well), 4- It saves having to comment if the loopname is sufficiently descriptive. Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 05 August 2004 19:08 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's also supposed to be faster because Access doesn't have to attempt to figure out what to increment. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 5:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >You don't need the last I; Next will do. While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions --------------Please open with care!------------ This message has bypassed some of our spam filtering rules. This message was scanned for viruses and executable code has been stripped. --------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Drew > What's wrong with: > For I=1 to 50 > > Next I You don't need the last I; Next will do. /gustav ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Fri Aug 6 05:17:07 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:17:07 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0ADAC6@stekelbes.ithelps.local> I'm not sure if the Windows error reporting is the same as the Office Crash Analisys??? Anyway, this option is only present on a Windows XP computer. My server has a Windows 2000 Server OS. But Thanks anyway Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MG Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys Go to "Start/Help" Search for "report errors" and follow the leads. Basically it is in your System setting. You can stop all error reports, or select which progams to report/not report on. (Control Panel / System / Advanced Tab / Error Reporting - bottom right) Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: 06 August 2004 09:12 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys Hi I have 2 Access programs that executes on my server every 5 minutes and that among things also opens Outlook to rchive E-mails. The thing is that these apps have run in A2K fine with no problems for years and now with A2K3 give 1 or more sporadic crashes a day. For 1 type of crash I know its connected with sending a fax trough outlook (GFI Faxmaker for Exchange) but the other crashes are totaly random. BUT in both type crashes it is always Outlook that crashes. I was hoping that SP1 for Office 2K3 would solve this issue, but it does not. So my question is not for solving these crashes, they apear to me to be a bug in Outlook, I already invested a lot of time to find a solution. The question is, How can I turn of the Office Crash Analisys. Because each time Access or Outlook crashes, I have to manualy intervean to click on send report. My task sheduler will not continue to exexcute the Access programs (none of both) until this chrash thing is solved. So I believe if the Crash analisys is "off" or at least automaticaly disapears I can sleep again at night... Erwin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Fri Aug 6 05:24:09 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:24:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0ADAC7@stekelbes.ithelps.local> You can temporary load the full user registry file (NTUSER.DAT in regedt32) when logged on as administrator. Log in as administrator Run regedt32 Select HKEY_USERS Click File >> load Hive Browse to the NTUSER.DAT file of that specific user Open it Give it a clear Temporary name like TEMP_{name_of_user} You will see a key added called TEMP_{name_of_user} Make your changes.... IMPORTANT ** You need to unload the hive when finished. Select the key TEMP_{name_of_user} Click file >> unload Hive And thats it... I translated from dutch so I'm not sure if the menu name is load Hive or Component.... Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:25 AM To: Dba Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) I've posted this on dba-Tech but copying here for wider coverage. I'd appreciate it if answers were to dba-Tech or, if you aren't subbbed to that (and don't want to), to me off-list. ---------------------------------- W2K as usual. I want to edit the registry to lock down some functionality for a specific user on a machine. I feel, howeverr, that I'm in a tricky situation. AFAIK I can only edit a user's settings whilst logged on as them (i.e. via HKCU). So I have to make sure that that user can do a regedit. One of the reg changes I want is to remove the Run from the Start Menu. I can do that but once I do that how will I ever be able to get back in to change that user's reg settings? By definition if they can't edit the registry then neither can I when logged on as them. But neither can I edit HKCU for THEM when logged on as ME. Any ideas? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Aug 6 06:32:55 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:32:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Exporting Using Code Message-ID: <4941964.1091791975665.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> To all, I have the following code to export a query into an excel sheet: strSQL = "SELECT * INTO " & _ "[Excel 8.0; Database=C:\Email\ProgrammeSummary.xls].? & _ ?[ProgrammeSummary] " & _ "FROM qryProgrammeSummary " Does anyone know if I can use the same method to export to a text file, if so could someone show me the syntax to it, cause I have been playing around with this for the last hour, and can?t seem to do it. Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 07:01:05 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:01:05 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <119179288.20040806140105@cactus.dk> Hi Greg Charlotte is right. If you feel you have a need to fiddle with the references, this is the very first thing to do. No exceptions. Also, doing so will leave your app decompiled and you may need to recompile afterwards. We had a long thread on this topic. Look up the archive on "Broken References in Runtime AXP and A97" of 2003-07-23. /gustav > Greg, > It is logical that you cannot declare any objects before you verify the > references. Even if the Office library isn't the one that's broken, you > need to test the references before you do *anything* else, including > declare object variables as anything but Object. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:58 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 > Hi everyone... > Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier post(s) about references > and how to find broken ones (I don't have my list here at work so I > don't have all the responses). > I still have the references issue. And it may be because of how I'm > starting the program or how I have the references set. There is only > one right now that is giving me the PITA, and it's to mso97.dll in the > Office directory. Hard to test that one too, because if you delete it, > Access won't start. > I can use the References.AddFromFile(...) code to set the reference. > But there's a catch-22...if I don't have a reference to the MS Office > 8.0 Object library, then the code: > Dim cbr as CommandBar > fails just before I can set the reference using: > SetRef = References.AddFromFile("c:\program > files\msoffice97\office\mso97.dll") From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri Aug 6 07:20:01 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:20:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <20040806121959.1AC622521C6@smtp.nildram.co.uk> That sounds just what I need. Brilliant. Thanks Erwin. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Date: 06/08/04 10:25 > > You can temporary load the full user registry file (NTUSER.DAT in > regedt32) when logged on as administrator. > > Log in as administrator > > Run regedt32 > Select HKEY_USERS > Click File >> load Hive > Browse to the NTUSER.DAT file of that specific user > Open it > Give it a clear Temporary name like > TEMP_{name_of_user} > > You will see a key added called TEMP_{name_of_user} > Make your changes.... > > IMPORTANT ** You need to unload the hive when finished. > Select the key TEMP_{name_of_user} > Click file >> unload Hive > > And thats it... > > I translated from dutch so I'm not sure if the menu name is load Hive or > Component.... > > Erwin > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:25 AM > To: Dba > Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > I've posted this on dba-Tech but copying here for wider coverage. I'd > appreciate it if answers were to dba-Tech or, if you aren't subbbed to > that (and don't want to), to me off-list. > ---------------------------------- > > W2K as usual. I want to edit the registry to lock down some > functionality for a specific user on a machine. I feel, howeverr, that > I'm in a tricky situation. AFAIK I can only edit a user's settings > whilst logged on as them (i.e. via HKCU). So I have to make sure that > that user can do a regedit. One of the reg changes I want is to remove > the Run from the Start Menu. I can do that but once I do that how will I > ever be able to get back in to change that user's reg settings? By > definition if they can't edit the registry then neither can I when > logged on as them. But neither can I edit HKCU for THEM when logged on > as ME. Any ideas? > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > ________________________________________________ > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri Aug 6 07:45:31 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:45:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30929096@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB724@ADGSERVER> I'm a top poster also. I admit it. But I think it is a personal choice kind of thing. Most people what are reading a reply to an e-mail either sent the original that is being replied to, or has already read the original posting. It makes sense to me to top post so that you do not have to scroll to the bottom or re-read the original post. Just as in a conversation, when you reply, you do not re-speak everything that was spoken prior to your reply. It really does not matter to me where people post. But one thing that really pisses me off on some of the Redhat/Fedora Linux mailing lists is that it is a giant issue that some Linux gods (as they think they are) have deemed that bottom posting is the law. There have been many flame wars and vitriolic posts over such a petty subject as top/bottom posting that I usually will not post a question (although I have many) or an answer (of which I have few) because it is not worth it to me to get flamed for top posting. So, can't we all just get along? LOL. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:18 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Here's a Friday rant - is there a reason that people are replying to emails and putting their response at the bottom of the message instead of at the top? It's so much harder to quickly read through - you have to scroll down and find the response. I know that sometimes you have to do this when you are replying to different *parts* of the message - but otherwise - what the reason? Kath -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 07:39:17 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:39:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <20040805185410.BHCQ1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040805185410.BHCQ1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <17821471254.20040806143917@cactus.dk> Hi Susan > Great! Is Susan still the editor in charge? > =========Well, I'm not really an editor, but I play one on the Internet. > What do you need? Have a look at Jim's writing. Sounds like it could be a part of the next Many-to-Many issue. /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 07:51:01 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:51:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18522175827.20040806145101@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte The fail on TransferText is probably only a sympton not the error. Or maybe it is; it uses the "external ISAM" I guess. Nevertheless, you could try replacing the TransferText routine with a simple "Open File and read in line by line" routine. I'm sure you know how to this. It may even be faster than TransferText. /gustav > I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the > archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so > I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does > nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To > stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip > file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible > with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The > import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a > while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file > several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 > error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for > databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each > text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having > imported the thing before. > After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI > until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the > database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, > because the module level and global variables are still populated. I > can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access > can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out > of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and > see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can > replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across > machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of > *when* it breaks vary slightly. > I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but > I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has > anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > Charlotte Foust > Infostat Systems, Inc. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri Aug 6 08:02:26 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:02:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Message-ID: <20040806130223.8DB93256DFE@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Ok, I'm taking off most of the original post and the sigs, cos I do when I remember to. Then I'm top posting, cos I too prefer it (flame away if you like). But if I don't see a reply at the top it takes me, what, a second to scroll to the bottom and find the reply. So I prefer top posting but can't get steamed up about it either way. I'm agreeing with Bobby. Live and let live. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > So, can't we all just get along? LOL. > > Bobby > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 6 08:02:21 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:02:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <17821471254.20040806143917@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040806130223.TJXK1756.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> > Great! Is Susan still the editor in charge? > =========Well, I'm not really an editor, but I play one on the Internet. > What do you need? Have a look at Jim's writing. Sounds like it could be a part of the next Many-to-Many issue. /gustav Oh dear, oh dear... Where should I respond... :) Top... Bottom... Maybe on the side???? ;) Send me something. :) Susan H. From JHewson at karta.com Fri Aug 6 08:24:21 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:24:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E14F@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> I agree with Kath. I always top post. In my line of business I receive anywhere from 50 to 60 e-mails a day. I don't have time to scroll down through a post I sent, or that I have already read. If the post is not at the top, I presume the author made a mistake and did not reply. Like Max, I dump a lot of the e-mails. Most of those posts are either relegated to the bottom of the list to be read, or more likely, just dumped. Overall, I probably only get one or two e-mails (excluding this list), without the post at the top, in a week. Like Bobby and Andy, I think we all need to get along.... but if you bottom post, don't expect me to reply. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Ok, I'm taking off most of the original post and the sigs, cos I do when I remember to. Then I'm top posting, cos I too prefer it (flame away if you like). But if I don't see a reply at the top it takes me, what, a second to scroll to the bottom and find the reply. So I prefer top posting but can't get steamed up about it either way. I'm agreeing with Bobby. Live and let live. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > So, can't we all just get along? LOL. > > Bobby > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 08:29:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:29:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting Using Code In-Reply-To: <4941964.1091791975665.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> References: <4941964.1091791975665.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> Message-ID: <10424486369.20040806152932@cactus.dk> Hi paul The general syntax is like: SELECT * INTO [Text;Database=C:\Windows\Temp].[TestDate.txt] FROM tblExportFrom; /gustav > I have the following code to export a query into an excel sheet: > strSQL = "SELECT * INTO " & _ > "[Excel 8.0; Database=C:\Email\ProgrammeSummary.xls].? & _ > ?[ProgrammeSummary] " & _ > "FROM qryProgrammeSummary " > > Does anyone know if I can use the same method to export to a text > file, if so could someone show me the syntax to it, cause I have > been playing around with this for the last hour, and can?t seem to > do it. > Thanks in advance for any help. > Paul Hartland From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 08:39:53 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:39:53 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12025107722.20040806153953@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte > It's also supposed to be faster because Access doesn't have to attempt > to figure out what to increment. This is an old rumour that doesn't hold. Speed is equal: http://www.xbeat.net/vbspeed/c_ForNext.htm /gustav >>You don't need the last I; Next will do. > While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for > readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with > nested loops. From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 09:15:06 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:15:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <200408060835.i768ZJQ29807@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200408060835.i768ZJQ29807@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <17927220621.20040806161506@cactus.dk> Hi Max > Access doesn't have to do any figuring. It just pops the stack. > My take is that if it is a small coded loop, then I don't add the loopname, > otherwise I do, 'cos > 1-It aids readability, > 2-It helps me keep track of where I am as I am adding the, > 3-It also helps with the 'Elseifs' (Yep, I put them there as well), > 4-It saves having to comment if the loopname is sufficiently descriptive. I like that no. 4 argument: lngTables = .TableDefs.Count For lngTable = 0 To lngTables - 1 ' Do table stuff. Next lngTable /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 08:43:57 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:43:57 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB22C@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB22C@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <3225351293.20040806154357@cactus.dk> Hi Drew > For i.... > For j ..... > For k .... > Lots of code.... > Next k 'Okay, done with k, let's take care of j > Do something with j > Next j 'okay, done with j, let's increment i > Next i > I wouldn't put those comments in, just what I'm thinking in my head as I'm > coding... You made me worry for a moment ... /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 09:09:43 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:09:43 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <000301c47b3b$86f86850$0201a8c0@COA3> References: <000301c47b3b$86f86850$0201a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <11226897857.20040806160943@cactus.dk> Hi Steve Now, that's what I call a compromise. /gustav > Just to throw in another, late, point on this, I do it this way: > For I = 1 To 10 > Next ' I > I throw in the variable after an apostrophe, so it's there, but > commented out because somewhere else in my life (VBS?) you *can't* put > the variable after the Next because it throws an error. This one > method works on both. From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 09:17:28 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:17:28 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589D@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> References: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589D@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <727362365.20040806161728@cactus.dk> Hi Brett > This thread has to end for me. My paid project work is suffering, so > here's my last shot at getting my point across. Oh, please don't deprioritize your job because of this endless (now Friday) thread. About the tip on the compiler's catch of those typos: I didn't know that (thanks for the tip). But how should I know? I never make a typo! /gustav >> I think that Next alone is more safe as it complete eliminates these > classic typo errors: >>For I = 1 To 10 >> For J = 1 To 10 >> Next I >>Next I > In Access 2.0, it gives me a "Next without For" compiler error. > In Access 2003, VB6 and VB.NET, it me an "Invalid Next control variable > reference" compiler error. > I'm reasonably sure that there are no versions of VB or VBA that allow > this bug to slip past the compiler. In all cases, the COMPILER > eliminates the typo error. Still no chance of introducing runtime > errors by using my syntax. > More safe? From those big, bad compile-time errors? Gimme a break... > Next! >>Would you like: >> >> While N < 50 >> ' Do stuff >> Wend N > No Sam, I would not like it in a box, with a fox, on a train, or in a > plane. You're repeating the same tired argument with different > keywords. As I said before (about the If statements and Do loops), this > loop is controlled by a CONDITION, not a counter variable. True, the > condition MAY involve the value of a single variable, but what about: > ' Wait 1 second > While GetTickCount() - lngStartCount < 1000 > DoEvents > Wend > So to conclude, I feel that the extra effort of including the For > counter variable with the Next statement is worth the effort because: > A) It allows me to tell what block a Next block belongs to, without > having to scroll up to the For statement. > B) In cases of nested loops, it helps me to ensure that my code is > placed within the proper loop. > C) Using this syntax does not increase the possibility of runtime > errors, but there is a minor chance that it may reduce them (see B). > D) Although they are not required by the compiler, I consider them a > best practice to improve code readability. As a team developer, I > accept the fact that the people maintaining my code may not possess > above average code-deciphering skills like Gustav, and instead tend > towards average like myself. _I_ find it easier to read and maintain, > and obviously there are others who do as well, or else it would have > been deprecated in the syntax overhaul of VB.NET. Conversely, I haven't > heard a reasonable argument why it would make code harder to read or > maintain. From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Aug 6 09:20:21 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:20:21 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Exporting Using Code Message-ID: <29911393.1091802021039.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Thanks, I tried reversing the process, i.e bringing the text file into the table but said I can't define field more than once, I think it's because there are no field names in the text file. Is there a way of saying there are no field names in the text file ? Paul Message date : Aug 06 2004, 02:33 PM >From : "Gustav Brock" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Exporting Using Code Hi paul The general syntax is like: SELECT * INTO [Text;Database=C:\Windows\Temp].[TestDate.txt] FROM tblExportFrom; /gustav > I have the following code to export a query into an excel sheet: > strSQL = "SELECT * INTO " & _ > "[Excel 8.0; Database=C:\Email\ProgrammeSummary.xls].? & _ > ?[ProgrammeSummary] " & _ > "FROM qryProgrammeSummary " > > Does anyone know if I can use the same method to export to a text > file, if so could someone show me the syntax to it, cause I have > been playing around with this for the last hour, and can?t seem to > do it. > Thanks in advance for any help. > Paul Hartland -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From GregSmith at starband.net Fri Aug 6 09:28:21 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:28:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 In-Reply-To: <119179288.20040806140105@cactus.dk> References: <119179288.20040806140105@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <1661.216.43.21.235.1091802501.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Gustav and Charlotte: Thanks. I was reading Charlotte's post yesterday and, thinking, well, yea, DUH on me...when it occurred to me that I'd seen all of this before or something similar...so I went to the archives and started searching on 'references' and found where you (Gustav) had written a note to search on what you just now told me to search on (again...ha!). I found exactly what I needed and it works! See. Old programmer memory doesn't really die or get erased, it just bytes the dust occasionally... I did notice that every time it recompiles the code (automatically thru the autoexec), the app file size grows some. And I can't tell it to compact it afterwards because then it would fire the autoexec again and go on forever. Is this an issue or should I just live with it? The file size itself is not an issue, but it seems kind of ... umm ... messy to me to keep growing like that. Thanks again for all your help... Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net > Hi Greg > > Charlotte is right. If you feel you have a need to fiddle with the > references, this is the very first thing to do. No exceptions. > > Also, doing so will leave your app decompiled and you may need to > recompile afterwards. > > We had a long thread on this topic. > Look up the archive on > > "Broken References in Runtime AXP and A97" > > of 2003-07-23. > > /gustav > > >> Greg, > >> It is logical that you cannot declare any objects before you verify >> the references. Even if the Office library isn't the one that's >> broken, you need to test the references before you do *anything* else, >> including declare object variables as anything but Object. > >> Charlotte Foust > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:58 AM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 > > >> Hi everyone... > >> Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier post(s) about >> references and how to find broken ones (I don't have my list here at >> work so I don't have all the responses). > >> I still have the references issue. And it may be because of how I'm >> starting the program or how I have the references set. There is only >> one right now that is giving me the PITA, and it's to mso97.dll in the >> Office directory. Hard to test that one too, because if you delete >> it, Access won't start. > >> I can use the References.AddFromFile(...) code to set the reference. >> But there's a catch-22...if I don't have a reference to the MS Office >> 8.0 Object library, then the code: > >> Dim cbr as CommandBar > >> fails just before I can set the reference using: > >> SetRef = References.AddFromFile("c:\program >> files\msoffice97\office\mso97.dll") > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 09:32:40 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:32:40 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting Using Code In-Reply-To: <29911393.1091802021039.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> References: <29911393.1091802021039.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <328274506.20040806163240@cactus.dk> Hi Paul > I tried reversing the process, i.e bringing the text file into the table but said I can't define field more than once, I think it's because there are no field names in the text file. Is there a > way of saying there are no field names in the text file ? Reversing? Reverse what? But this type of query is a one-shot. The text file must not exist. /gustav > The general syntax is like: > SELECT > * > INTO > [Text;Database=C:\Windows\Temp].[TestDate.txt] > FROM > tblExportFrom; > /gustav >> I have the following code to export a query into an excel sheet: >> strSQL = "SELECT * INTO " & _ >> "[Excel 8.0; Database=C:\Email\ProgrammeSummary.xls].? & _ >> ?[ProgrammeSummary] " & _ >> "FROM qryProgrammeSummary " >> >> Does anyone know if I can use the same method to export to a text >> file, if so could someone show me the syntax to it, cause I have >> been playing around with this for the last hour, and can?t seem to >> do it. >> Thanks in advance for any help. >> Paul Hartland From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 09:34:46 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:34:46 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 In-Reply-To: <1661.216.43.21.235.1091802501.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> References: <119179288.20040806140105@cactus.dk> <1661.216.43.21.235.1091802501.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: <3528400998.20040806163446@cactus.dk> Hi Greg Good! I wouldn't worry about the small increase in file size. /gustav > Gustav and Charlotte: > Thanks. I was reading Charlotte's post yesterday and, thinking, well, > yea, DUH on me...when it occurred to me that I'd seen all of this before > or something similar...so I went to the archives and started searching on > 'references' and found where you (Gustav) had written a note to search on > what you just now told me to search on (again...ha!). > I found exactly what I needed and it works! See. Old programmer memory > doesn't really die or get erased, it just bytes the dust occasionally... > I did notice that every time it recompiles the code (automatically thru > the autoexec), the app file size grows some. And I can't tell it to > compact it afterwards because then it would fire the autoexec again and go > on forever. Is this an issue or should I just live with it? The file > size itself is not an issue, but it seems kind of ... umm ... messy to me > to keep growing like that. > Thanks again for all your help... > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net >> Hi Greg >> >> Charlotte is right. If you feel you have a need to fiddle with the >> references, this is the very first thing to do. No exceptions. >> >> Also, doing so will leave your app decompiled and you may need to >> recompile afterwards. >> >> We had a long thread on this topic. >> Look up the archive on >> >> "Broken References in Runtime AXP and A97" >> >> of 2003-07-23. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>> Greg, >> >>> It is logical that you cannot declare any objects before you verify >>> the references. Even if the Office library isn't the one that's >>> broken, you need to test the references before you do *anything* else, >>> including declare object variables as anything but Object. >> >>> Charlotte Foust >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:58 AM >>> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>> Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 >> >> >>> Hi everyone... >> >>> Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier post(s) about >>> references and how to find broken ones (I don't have my list here at >>> work so I don't have all the responses). >> >>> I still have the references issue. And it may be because of how I'm >>> starting the program or how I have the references set. There is only >>> one right now that is giving me the PITA, and it's to mso97.dll in the >>> Office directory. Hard to test that one too, because if you delete >>> it, Access won't start. >> >>> I can use the References.AddFromFile(...) code to set the reference. >>> But there's a catch-22...if I don't have a reference to the MS Office >>> 8.0 Object library, then the code: >> >>> Dim cbr as CommandBar >> >>> fails just before I can set the reference using: >> >>> SetRef = References.AddFromFile("c:\program >>> files\msoffice97\office\mso97.dll") From GregSmith at starband.net Fri Aug 6 09:37:27 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:37:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <20040806130223.8DB93256DFE@smtp.nildram.co.uk> References: <20040806130223.8DB93256DFE@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <1677.216.43.21.235.1091803047.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> I'm a top poster. I like the "new" information to be right at the top of the post where I can see it right away. If it's not, and it's a topic I REALLY want to read, I'll find the new stuff in it no matter where it is. So I agree with Andy and Bobby...I prefer top posts but it doesn't bother me if it's not at the top. Greg > Ok, I'm taking off most of the original post and the sigs, cos I do when > I remember to. Then I'm top posting, cos I too prefer it (flame away if > you like). But if I don't see a reply at the top it takes me, what, a > second to scroll to the bottom and find the reply. So I prefer top > posting but can't get steamed up about it either way. > > I'm agreeing with Bobby. Live and let live. > > -- > Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > >> >> So, can't we all just get along? LOL. >> >> Bobby >> From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Fri Aug 6 09:51:34 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:51:34 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0ADAC8@stekelbes.ithelps.local> No prob 1 drink to receive 9999 drinks to pay... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) That sounds just what I need. Brilliant. Thanks Erwin. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Date: 06/08/04 10:25 > > You can temporary load the full user registry file (NTUSER.DAT in > regedt32) when logged on as administrator. > > Log in as administrator > > Run regedt32 > Select HKEY_USERS > Click File >> load Hive > Browse to the NTUSER.DAT file of that specific user Open it Give it a > clear Temporary name like TEMP_{name_of_user} > > You will see a key added called TEMP_{name_of_user} Make your > changes.... > > IMPORTANT ** You need to unload the hive when finished. > Select the key TEMP_{name_of_user} > Click file >> unload Hive > > And thats it... > > I translated from dutch so I'm not sure if the menu name is load Hive > or Component.... > > Erwin > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:25 AM > To: Dba > Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > I've posted this on dba-Tech but copying here for wider coverage. I'd > appreciate it if answers were to dba-Tech or, if you aren't subbbed to > that (and don't want to), to me off-list. > ---------------------------------- > > W2K as usual. I want to edit the registry to lock down some > functionality for a specific user on a machine. I feel, howeverr, that > I'm in a tricky situation. AFAIK I can only edit a user's settings > whilst logged on as them (i.e. via HKCU). So I have to make sure that > that user can do a regedit. One of the reg changes I want is to remove > the Run from the Start Menu. I can do that but once I do that how will > I ever be able to get back in to change that user's reg settings? By > definition if they can't edit the registry then neither can I when > logged on as them. But neither can I edit HKCU for THEM when logged on > as ME. Any ideas? > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > ________________________________________________ > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Fri Aug 6 10:17:07 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:17:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Brett, < I agree with you 100%, but this topic has bubbled up on the list before......if it were Access related, it probably would have made the great debate hall of fame, like bound/unbound, and natural/surrogate keys. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 7:18 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Here's a Friday rant - is there a reason that people are replying to emails and putting their response at the bottom of the message instead of at the top? It's so much harder to quickly read through - you have to scroll down and find the response. I know that sometimes you have to do this when you are replying to different *parts* of the message - but otherwise - what the reason? Kath -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 11:06:49 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:06:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB237@main2.marlow.com> I say we vote tolerance, and just put up with the bottom posters. Top posters and bottom posters, living hand in hand, one peaceful community. The List shall be a place of harmony. Now, people that have the 20 paragraph long legal disclaimer that is repeated 10 times in a thread......they're outta here! LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Interesting - but I completely disagree. Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them scroll all the way down to see the latest data? I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and for a list like this where we have already read the original post we only want to read the reply. I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this topic? Kath -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 11:08:42 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:08:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB238@main2.marlow.com> Nope, I'll keep top posting! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message When Access adds a new record to a continuous form/table/query does it add it at the top or the bottom? A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation. But what would we all *like* it to do? We all write code to reverse it...... Nice talking to you Stuart - I am going to leave this thread - I fear that the result is going to be that everyone starts bottom posting and I'll bitterly regret raising the topic!! Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart McLachlan To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message On 6 Aug 2004 at 11:42, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Interesting - but I completely disagree. > > Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous > form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them > scroll all the way down to see the latest data? > When Access adds a new record to a continuous form/table/query does it add it at the top or the bottom? A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation. Q. Why is top posting bad? > I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and > for a list like this where we have already read the original post we > only want to read the reply And with a long thread with lots of different opinions and branches? Take recent thread about "RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions". Top posts became very difficult to follow. Once the discussion had split off into Integers v Longs, there was no way of telling what the respondent is responding to without scrolling down and then back up again. > > I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most > 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. There's plenty of that. Try gooling ["top posting" "bottom posting"] > I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this > topic? > I know what I'd like it to be -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 11:19:18 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:19:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB239@main2.marlow.com> Also, in a Windows 2k environment, you can use regedit, and log into another registry on the network. So while that user is on their machine, you can edit the registry from your machine. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 7:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) That sounds just what I need. Brilliant. Thanks Erwin. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Date: 06/08/04 10:25 > > You can temporary load the full user registry file (NTUSER.DAT in > regedt32) when logged on as administrator. > > Log in as administrator > > Run regedt32 > Select HKEY_USERS > Click File >> load Hive > Browse to the NTUSER.DAT file of that specific user > Open it > Give it a clear Temporary name like > TEMP_{name_of_user} > > You will see a key added called TEMP_{name_of_user} > Make your changes.... > > IMPORTANT ** You need to unload the hive when finished. > Select the key TEMP_{name_of_user} > Click file >> unload Hive > > And thats it... > > I translated from dutch so I'm not sure if the menu name is load Hive or > Component.... > > Erwin > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:25 AM > To: Dba > Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > I've posted this on dba-Tech but copying here for wider coverage. I'd > appreciate it if answers were to dba-Tech or, if you aren't subbbed to > that (and don't want to), to me off-list. > ---------------------------------- > > W2K as usual. I want to edit the registry to lock down some > functionality for a specific user on a machine. I feel, howeverr, that > I'm in a tricky situation. AFAIK I can only edit a user's settings > whilst logged on as them (i.e. via HKCU). So I have to make sure that > that user can do a regedit. One of the reg changes I want is to remove > the Run from the Start Menu. I can do that but once I do that how will I > ever be able to get back in to change that user's reg settings? By > definition if they can't edit the registry then neither can I when > logged on as them. But neither can I edit HKCU for THEM when logged on > as ME. Any ideas? > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > ________________________________________________ > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 11:24:22 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:24:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB23A@main2.marlow.com> Completely agree. Kathryn posted a very good bottom post though. One short blurb at the top, and then the rest. Now that I think is a good post. I wouldn't even call it a bottom post. It's just a post with relevant information. No scrolling required to see what she actually wrote (unless you had less then an inch of viewable window for her email.). I do think that if you have to scroll through a previous email, to get to it's reply, then it should have been a top post, to allow us to read the reply, and go backwards if we want. It's not laziness that promotes top-posting, it's forgetfulness that prompts bottom-posting. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 7:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message I'm a top poster also. I admit it. But I think it is a personal choice kind of thing. Most people what are reading a reply to an e-mail either sent the original that is being replied to, or has already read the original posting. It makes sense to me to top post so that you do not have to scroll to the bottom or re-read the original post. Just as in a conversation, when you reply, you do not re-speak everything that was spoken prior to your reply. It really does not matter to me where people post. But one thing that really pisses me off on some of the Redhat/Fedora Linux mailing lists is that it is a giant issue that some Linux gods (as they think they are) have deemed that bottom posting is the law. There have been many flame wars and vitriolic posts over such a petty subject as top/bottom posting that I usually will not post a question (although I have many) or an answer (of which I have few) because it is not worth it to me to get flamed for top posting. So, can't we all just get along? LOL. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:18 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Here's a Friday rant - is there a reason that people are replying to emails and putting their response at the bottom of the message instead of at the top? It's so much harder to quickly read through - you have to scroll down and find the response. I know that sometimes you have to do this when you are replying to different *parts* of the message - but otherwise - what the reason? Kath -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 11:38:57 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:38:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB23B@main2.marlow.com> LOL. That's really what a naming convention is, a method of how our brains think through the process of coding. Everyone thinks differently, which is why naming conventions are always so 'debated'. Let's adopt the Pirate Code philosophy from the Pirates of the Caribbean: Firstly, you must be a coder for the Naming Conventions to apply. Secondly, whether or not to include the incrementing counter after Next was never part of our negotiations. Thirdly, the Naming Conventions are more like guidelines, then actual rules. Welcome aboard the AccessD List, matey! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Hi Drew > For i.... > For j ..... > For k .... > Lots of code.... > Next k 'Okay, done with k, let's take care of j > Do something with j > Next j 'okay, done with j, let's increment i > Next i > I wouldn't put those comments in, just what I'm thinking in my head as I'm > coding... You made me worry for a moment ... /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Aug 6 11:49:09 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:49:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE40@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> I for 1 like it. Next? Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Susan, I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the list of abbreviations than coding. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri Aug 6 12:49:19 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 18:49:19 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB239@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <003001c47bdd$b2f5d260$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Howd'ya do that then? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 06 August 2004 17:19 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > > Also, in a Windows 2k environment, you can use regedit, and > log into another registry on the network. So while that user > is on their machine, you can edit the registry from your machine. > > Drew > From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 12:58:03 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:58:03 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Undocumented Access SQL syntax - Derived tables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2040597135.20040806195803@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte et all Did you see the thread "Exporting Using Code" by Paul? I found out about the trailing dot in the [SQL]. syntax for a virtual table. First, of course, it shows that we have a virtual table and not a bracketed field name. Second, if you, say, export to a text table via SQL, the "database name" is the _directory_ where the file will be created while the file name is the "table name" which is appended in brackets as well. So here comes the dot in: SELECT * INTO [Text; Database=d:\tempdir].[export.txt] FROM tblSomeTable; This I haven't seen elsewhere. /gustav > We've discussed this trick before in the list. I found it back in A97, > where it was problematic and had to be used with care, and I've used it > in 2k and XP. There was a tip on this in the December 2001 > Access-VB-SQL Advisor magazine, called "Create Derived Tables in Jet". > As I recall, they are covered in O'Reilly's Access Database Design & > Programming as well. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Maddison [mailto:michael at ddisolutions.com.au] > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Undocumented Access SQL syntax - Derived tables > Hi list, > I've been mainly working in SQL 2K for a while now and have grown to > love using derived tables in my sql statements. A shame you can't do > the same in Access! You thought so, well so did I. A colleague came > across a website (no link,sorry) which shows how to do derived tables in > MS Access. > Undocumented Syntax > SELECT .* > FROM > [SELECT sum(x) FROM FOO]. BAR > ***Notice the [] and the space after the . > This works like a charm, even the query designer likes it! The only > drawback I've found (apart from being undocumented) is the derived > tables cannot have column names with square brackets arround them. So > SELECT .* > FROM > [SELECT sum([My Badly Named Field]) FROM FOO]. BAR > Will not parse correctly. > Try it out. > cheers > Michael M From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 13:23:04 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:23:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB23D@main2.marlow.com> Start --> Run regedit Okay Registry (Menu) Connect Network Registry... Type Computer Name Click Ok Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Howd'ya do that then? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 06 August 2004 17:19 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > > Also, in a Windows 2k environment, you can use regedit, and > log into another registry on the network. So while that user > is on their machine, you can edit the registry from your machine. > > Drew > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com Fri Aug 6 13:58:18 2004 From: Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com (Lavsa, Rich) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:58:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <833956F5C117124A89417638FDB11290EBD25A@goexchange.pghcorning.com> There is a problem with doing that though. You only see 2 hives, the "Local Machine" and "Local Users". You don't see the Current User hive which is what I though he was after all along. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:23 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Start --> Run regedit Okay Registry (Menu) Connect Network Registry... Type Computer Name Click Ok Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Howd'ya do that then? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 06 August 2004 17:19 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > > Also, in a Windows 2k environment, you can use regedit, and > log into another registry on the network. So while that user > is on their machine, you can edit the registry from your machine. > > Drew > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 14:28:53 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:28:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB23F@main2.marlow.com> The Hive should be under HKEY_USERS Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lavsa, Rich Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) There is a problem with doing that though. You only see 2 hives, the "Local Machine" and "Local Users". You don't see the Current User hive which is what I though he was after all along. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:23 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Start --> Run regedit Okay Registry (Menu) Connect Network Registry... Type Computer Name Click Ok Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Howd'ya do that then? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 06 August 2004 17:19 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > > Also, in a Windows 2k environment, you can use regedit, and > log into another registry on the network. So while that user > is on their machine, you can edit the registry from your machine. > > Drew > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Fri Aug 6 14:48:28 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:48:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 In-Reply-To: <3528400998.20040806163446@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Except some times, and I'm not sure of the what or why's, the file increases quite a bit. One of my FE's weighs in at about 22 Megs when all nice a de-compile and re-compiled and compacted. As soon as the db has to deal with a reference change and re-compile it's self, it bloats to around 47 megs. The ONLY way that I have found to get the size back down to a reasonable 25 megs is to use the **Internal** compact and repair. Performing the compact and repair externally does very little (maybe 3-4 megs) to reduce the size.. It's has been a problem from day one. Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 Hi Greg Good! I wouldn't worry about the small increase in file size. /gustav > Gustav and Charlotte: > Thanks. I was reading Charlotte's post yesterday and, thinking, well, > yea, DUH on me...when it occurred to me that I'd seen all of this before > or something similar...so I went to the archives and started searching on > 'references' and found where you (Gustav) had written a note to search on > what you just now told me to search on (again...ha!). > I found exactly what I needed and it works! See. Old programmer memory > doesn't really die or get erased, it just bytes the dust occasionally... > I did notice that every time it recompiles the code (automatically thru > the autoexec), the app file size grows some. And I can't tell it to > compact it afterwards because then it would fire the autoexec again and go > on forever. Is this an issue or should I just live with it? The file > size itself is not an issue, but it seems kind of ... umm ... messy to me > to keep growing like that. > Thanks again for all your help... > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net >> Hi Greg >> >> Charlotte is right. If you feel you have a need to fiddle with the >> references, this is the very first thing to do. No exceptions. >> >> Also, doing so will leave your app decompiled and you may need to >> recompile afterwards. >> >> We had a long thread on this topic. >> Look up the archive on >> >> "Broken References in Runtime AXP and A97" >> >> of 2003-07-23. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>> Greg, >> >>> It is logical that you cannot declare any objects before you verify >>> the references. Even if the Office library isn't the one that's >>> broken, you need to test the references before you do *anything* else, >>> including declare object variables as anything but Object. >> >>> Charlotte Foust >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:58 AM >>> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>> Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 >> >> >>> Hi everyone... >> >>> Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier post(s) about >>> references and how to find broken ones (I don't have my list here at >>> work so I don't have all the responses). >> >>> I still have the references issue. And it may be because of how I'm >>> starting the program or how I have the references set. There is only >>> one right now that is giving me the PITA, and it's to mso97.dll in the >>> Office directory. Hard to test that one too, because if you delete >>> it, Access won't start. >> >>> I can use the References.AddFromFile(...) code to set the reference. >>> But there's a catch-22...if I don't have a reference to the MS Office >>> 8.0 Object library, then the code: >> >>> Dim cbr as CommandBar >> >>> fails just before I can set the reference using: >> >>> SetRef = References.AddFromFile("c:\program >>> files\msoffice97\office\mso97.dll") -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Aug 6 16:12:39 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 14:12:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB23F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <4113F447.6030708@shaw.ca> You can also modify with WMI on WinXP Win2000, don't forget to backup registry before testing 'to change the registry the actual current user logged in to Sub testwmi() Dim WSHShell, RegLocate, RegLocate1, RegLocate2 Dim strComputer, objRegistry, regName, regName1, regName2 Dim regValue, regValue1, regValue2 'Set WSHShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell") Const HKEY_CURRENT_USER = &H80000001 strComputer = "." 'local machine 'Define Registry Keys to be edited RegLocate = "SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings" regName = "ProxyEnable" regValue = 0 RegLocate1 = "SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings" regName1 = "ProxyServer" regValue1 = "" RegLocate2 = "SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings" regName2 = "AutoConfigURL" regValue2 = "ftp://gateway/pub/proxy.pac" Call ModifyDWORD(strComputer, HKEY_CURRENT_USER, RegLocate, regName, regValue) Call ModifyRegString(strComputer, HKEY_CURRENT_USER, RegLocate1, regName1, regValue1) Call ModifyRegString(strComputer, HKEY_CURRENT_USER, RegLocate2, regName2, regValue2) End Sub Sub ModifyDWORD(strComputer, strRegistryHive, strRegPath, strRegName, intRegValue) Dim objRegistry Set objRegistry = GetObject("winmgmts:{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\" & _ strComputer & "\root\default:StdRegProv") Dim Result Result = objRegistry.SetDWORDValue(strRegistryHive, strRegPath, strRegName, intRegValue) End Sub Sub ModifyRegString(strComputer, strRegistryHive, strRegPath, strRegName, strRegValue) Dim objRegistry Set objRegistry = GetObject("winmgmts:{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\" & _ strComputer & "\root\default:StdRegProv") Dim Result Result = objRegistry.SetStringValue(strRegistryHive, strRegPath, strRegName, strRegValue) End Sub DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: >The Hive should be under HKEY_USERS > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lavsa, Rich >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:58 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > >There is a problem with doing that though. You only see 2 hives, the "Local >Machine" and "Local Users". You don't see the Current User hive which is >what I though he was after all along. > >-----Original Message----- >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:23 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > >Start --> Run >regedit >Okay >Registry (Menu) >Connect Network Registry... >Type Computer Name >Click Ok > >Drew > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:49 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > >Howd'ya do that then? > >-- Andy Lacey >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >>DWUTKA at marlow.com >>Sent: 06 August 2004 17:19 >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) >> >> >>Also, in a Windows 2k environment, you can use regedit, and >>log into another registry on the network. So while that user >>is on their machine, you can edit the registry from your machine. >> >>Drew >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 16:16:57 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:16:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB241@main2.marlow.com> Okay, did a little testing on my own, with Access 97. Used the following code: Dim i Do Until i=-1 docmd.TransferText ....... i=i+1 Me.lblStatus.Caption="Importing: " & i 'DoEvents Loop Now, as is, above, the code Kicked up an 2051 error when i=11593 (It had imported 46372 records). Stopping the code, compacting the database, repairing the database, nothing would let the code start up again (without immediately kicking up that error message....which said something along the lines of a dialog box was not clicked or something.....), until I closed Access, and opened it up again, then it started right back up. Next time, it didn't error, it just hung. It sat at a record level of ~120,000 for about ten minutes, then I just killed it. No error, but it was definitely failing. Once I remove the quote before DoEvents, so that it would run, it seems to just fly, with no stopping. As I'm typing this, it's imported the records 1.5 million times and still going. Here's my theory. Jet is multi-threaded. I've had a little experience with multi-threading VB projects. One thing I know with doing that, is you have to be EXTREMELY careful when accessing a database. In fact, it is almost mandatory to force only one thread to do db transactions. If two threads try db transactions 'simultaneously', all sorts of things will happen (from just losing the thread, all the way to corrupting the database....not kidding...). The reason is that Windows isn't really paying attention to what a thread is doing when it gives time to the next one. So if two threads hit the db at the right time, it can REALLY get goofy. I'm sure the developers had that in mind when creating the TransferText method, however, they also probably didn't count on someone importing a file over and over and over, without a break. So what is probably happening, is that you are getting 'thread lock', where one or more of Jet's threads are locked, and there is nothing you can do about it, until you close Access, which will release the Jet threads. Now, I think putting in a DoEvents simply let's the VBA pause long enough to let the Jet threads finish what they need too, before being called again. Hope this helps in someway. Drew P.S. (It's now at 1.78 mill and counting....with the DoEvents....) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:49 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Cc: Steve White Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Aug 6 16:29:38 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 17:29:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB241@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Drew, You can test that theory out; there is a registry setting for the number of threads that JET should use. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 5:17 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Okay, did a little testing on my own, with Access 97. Used the following code: Dim i Do Until i=-1 docmd.TransferText ....... i=i+1 Me.lblStatus.Caption="Importing: " & i 'DoEvents Loop Now, as is, above, the code Kicked up an 2051 error when i=11593 (It had imported 46372 records). Stopping the code, compacting the database, repairing the database, nothing would let the code start up again (without immediately kicking up that error message....which said something along the lines of a dialog box was not clicked or something.....), until I closed Access, and opened it up again, then it started right back up. Next time, it didn't error, it just hung. It sat at a record level of ~120,000 for about ten minutes, then I just killed it. No error, but it was definitely failing. Once I remove the quote before DoEvents, so that it would run, it seems to just fly, with no stopping. As I'm typing this, it's imported the records 1.5 million times and still going. Here's my theory. Jet is multi-threaded. I've had a little experience with multi-threading VB projects. One thing I know with doing that, is you have to be EXTREMELY careful when accessing a database. In fact, it is almost mandatory to force only one thread to do db transactions. If two threads try db transactions 'simultaneously', all sorts of things will happen (from just losing the thread, all the way to corrupting the database....not kidding...). The reason is that Windows isn't really paying attention to what a thread is doing when it gives time to the next one. So if two threads hit the db at the right time, it can REALLY get goofy. I'm sure the developers had that in mind when creating the TransferText method, however, they also probably didn't count on someone importing a file over and over and over, without a break. So what is probably happening, is that you are getting 'thread lock', where one or more of Jet's threads are locked, and there is nothing you can do about it, until you close Access, which will release the Jet threads. Now, I think putting in a DoEvents simply let's the VBA pause long enough to let the Jet threads finish what they need too, before being called again. Hope this helps in someway. Drew P.S. (It's now at 1.78 mill and counting....with the DoEvents....) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:49 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Cc: Steve White Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 16:47:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:47:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB242@main2.marlow.com> Do you have a utility to count the number of threads being used? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Drew, You can test that theory out; there is a registry setting for the number of threads that JET should use. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 5:17 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Okay, did a little testing on my own, with Access 97. Used the following code: Dim i Do Until i=-1 docmd.TransferText ....... i=i+1 Me.lblStatus.Caption="Importing: " & i 'DoEvents Loop Now, as is, above, the code Kicked up an 2051 error when i=11593 (It had imported 46372 records). Stopping the code, compacting the database, repairing the database, nothing would let the code start up again (without immediately kicking up that error message....which said something along the lines of a dialog box was not clicked or something.....), until I closed Access, and opened it up again, then it started right back up. Next time, it didn't error, it just hung. It sat at a record level of ~120,000 for about ten minutes, then I just killed it. No error, but it was definitely failing. Once I remove the quote before DoEvents, so that it would run, it seems to just fly, with no stopping. As I'm typing this, it's imported the records 1.5 million times and still going. Here's my theory. Jet is multi-threaded. I've had a little experience with multi-threading VB projects. One thing I know with doing that, is you have to be EXTREMELY careful when accessing a database. In fact, it is almost mandatory to force only one thread to do db transactions. If two threads try db transactions 'simultaneously', all sorts of things will happen (from just losing the thread, all the way to corrupting the database....not kidding...). The reason is that Windows isn't really paying attention to what a thread is doing when it gives time to the next one. So if two threads hit the db at the right time, it can REALLY get goofy. I'm sure the developers had that in mind when creating the TransferText method, however, they also probably didn't count on someone importing a file over and over and over, without a break. So what is probably happening, is that you are getting 'thread lock', where one or more of Jet's threads are locked, and there is nothing you can do about it, until you close Access, which will release the Jet threads. Now, I think putting in a DoEvents simply let's the VBA pause long enough to let the Jet threads finish what they need too, before being called again. Hope this helps in someway. Drew P.S. (It's now at 1.78 mill and counting....with the DoEvents....) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:49 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Cc: Steve White Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Fri Aug 6 17:38:56 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 10:38:56 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F2908880E@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> That's good Stuart, I used to solve this by creating a temp table from the query with the criteria, then feeding this into the XtabQ. Good to find a better mousetrap. Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Friday, 6 August 2004 4:42 p.m. To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs On 6 Aug 2004 at 14:20, Darren DICK wrote: > > The cross tab is fed by a query not a table - So I went to the underlying 'feeder query'... > and put in Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID into the 'feeder. Then ran the crosstab again... > Same result - same error message. > But if I run the 'feeder query' by itself using the Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID in the criteria portion of the grid - all is OK > > Is it the case that Crosstabs can't handle changeable or form bound criterias? > Yep, this problem bites in a number of situations. My standard solution is to use a static function to store the content of the form's control and use that in the query. Put the following function in a module: Static Function StoredVariable(Optional varInput As Variant) As Variant Dim varStore As Variant 'Initialise the variant if the function is called 'the first time with no Input If IsEmpty(varStore) Then varStore = Null 'Update the store if the Input is present If Not IsMissing(varInput) Then varStore = varInput 'return the stored value StoredVariable = varStore End Function In the query, replace "Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID " with "=StoredVariable()" Then put "StoredVariable Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID" or "returnvalue = StoredVariable(Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID)" in code somewhere before you call the query. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KP at sdsonline.net Fri Aug 6 17:59:52 2004 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 08:59:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB237@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <002901c47c09$15f27e60$6401a8c0@user> Yes - I support tolerance......and let's not even start on those disclaimers... :) Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:06 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message I say we vote tolerance, and just put up with the bottom posters. Top posters and bottom posters, living hand in hand, one peaceful community. The List shall be a place of harmony. Now, people that have the 20 paragraph long legal disclaimer that is repeated 10 times in a thread......they're outta here! LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Interesting - but I completely disagree. Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them scroll all the way down to see the latest data? I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and for a list like this where we have already read the original post we only want to read the reply. I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this topic? Kath -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Aug 6 18:12:33 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 09:12:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB242@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <41149D01.10513.6F81AB6@lexacorp.com.pg> On 6 Aug 2004 at 16:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Do you have a utility to count the number of threads being used? > > Drew > It's already avaiable in the OS. Task Manager - Processes. Click on View = Select Columns and tick whatever items you want to show. Thread Count is about half way down the second column of items. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 6 20:18:31 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 21:18:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <002901c47c09$15f27e60$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <021401c47c1c$73baffa0$6601a8c0@rock> Instead, I say that we put all the intolerant people in camps and therein tied to cattle prods, until they become more tolerant, nay compliant with our every sick wish :-) Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 7:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Yes - I support tolerance......and let's not even start on those disclaimers... :) Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:06 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message I say we vote tolerance, and just put up with the bottom posters. Top posters and bottom posters, living hand in hand, one peaceful community. The List shall be a place of harmony. Now, people that have the 20 paragraph long legal disclaimer that is repeated 10 times in a thread......they're outta here! LOL. Drew From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Aug 6 23:48:48 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 21:48:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <411362FA.11819.22D6DC8@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: This whole 'bottom-poster' discussion might end up being one of the hot-topic right up there with 'keys' and 'bound forms'. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 5:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message On 6 Aug 2004 at 10:18, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Here's a Friday rant - is there a reason that people are replying to > emails and putting their response at the bottom of the message instead > of at the top? It's so much harder to quickly read through - you have > to scroll down and find the response. > > I know that sometimes you have to do this when you are replying to > different *parts* of the message - but otherwise - what the reason? > My rant would be: Why do people insist on "Top posting" and including *all* of the previous message(s) below their response. The following is stolen from: Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting By A. Smit and H.W. de Haan http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html 1. Because it is proper Usenet Etiquette. Check out the following URL: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html . It is a little outdated but still has a lot of valid points. Let us quote something from this site: If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just enough text of the original to give a context. This will make sure readers understand when they start to read your response. Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context helps everyone. But do not include the entire original! 2. We use a good news reader like Forte Agent. Good newsreaders like Agent put the signature by default at the end of the post, which is the Usenet convention. Microsoft Outlook Express however has some serious bugs. Let us quote someone we know: "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge We are programmers ourselves, and we know it is very easy to implement to put a signature at the end of the post instead of putting it directly above the post you are replying to and can not change the position. Forte Agent has as a feature that reply to a post it will remove the signature (recognizable by '-- ', note the extra space) and everything below it, so it will remove a part of the original message. This is good Usenet practice so Agent is not faulty. Outlook Express on the other hand is faulty, check this bugreport regarding the Usenet signature delimiter. If you want to try Agent, you can get it here. 3. Top-posting makes posts incomprehensible. Firstly: In normal conversations, one does not answer to something that has not yet been said. So it is unclear to reply to the top, whilst the original message is at the bottom. Secondly: In western society a book is normally read from top to bottom. Top-posting forces one to stray from this convention: Reading some at the top, skipping to the bottom to read the question, and going back to the top to continue. This annoyance increases even more than linear with the number of top-posts in the message. If someone replies to a thread and you forgot what the thread was all about, or that thread was incomplete for some reasons, it will be quite tiresome to rapidly understand what the thread was all about, due to bad posting and irrelevant text which has not been removed. 4. To prevent hideously long posts with a minimal account of new text, it is good Usenet practice to remove the non-relevant parts and optionally summarize the relevant parts of the original post, with regard to one's reply. Top- posting inevitably leads to long posts, because most top-posters leave the original message intact. All these long posts not only clutter up discussions, but they also clutter up the server space. 5. Top-posting makes it hard for bottom-posters to reply to the relevant parts: it not possible to answer within the original message. Bottom-posting does not make top-posting any harder. 6. Some people will argue that quoting looks bad due line wrapping. This can simply be dealt with by dropping Outlook Express as a start, and using only linewidths of 65 - 70 characters. Otherwise one has do it manually, and that can be tiresome. 7. A reason given by stubborn top-posters: they don't like to scroll to read the new message. We like to disagree here, because we always have to scroll down to see the original message and after that to scroll back up, just to see to what they are replying to. As a result you have to scroll twice as much when reading a top-poster's message. As a counterargument they say (believe us they do): "You can check the previous message in the discussion". This is even more tiresome than scrolling and with the unreliable nature of Usenet (and even email is inevitably unreliable), the previous message in the discussion can be simply unavailable. 8. Some newsgroups have strict conventions concerning posting in their charter. As an example we can tell you that in most Dutch newsgroups, you will be warned, killfiled or maybe even flamed, if you fail to follow Usenet conventions or if you do not quote according to the quoting guidelines. In general: it is better to practice the guidelines, if one does not want to get flamed in a newsgroup one just subscribed to. We can conclude that there are no good reasons we know of for top-posting. The most top-posts originate from the minimal work people spend on making posts. We think that one should be proud of one's post, that is it contains relevant content, well-formed sentences and no irrelevant 'bullsh*t', before uploading to your newsserver. If the majority of the group will adhere to this convention, the group will be nicer, tidier and easier to read. As a final remark we want to bring non-quoting into mind. This means that the original content of an email or Usenet post is completely removed. It makes it very hard for a reader to find out to what and whom one is replying. This phenomenon can be partly attributed to wrong settings of news- and email- clients, and partly to people who want to start with clean replies. Special thanks goes to P. Knutsen and P. Roskin for giving constructive feedback -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Aug 7 07:34:55 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:34:55 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <521270026.20040807143455@cactus.dk> Hi Robert That increase is not a minor one. I have advice on this. Perhaps others can chime in? /gustav > Except some times, and I'm not sure of the what or why's, the file > increases quite a bit. One of my FE's weighs in at about 22 Megs when all > nice a de-compile and re-compiled and compacted. As soon as the db has to > deal with a reference change and re-compile it's self, it bloats to around > 47 megs. The ONLY way that I have found to get the size back down to a > reasonable 25 megs is to use the **Internal** compact and repair. Performing > the compact and repair externally does very little (maybe 3-4 megs) to > reduce the size.. > It's has been a problem from day one. > Robert Gracie > www.servicexp.com > Good! > I wouldn't worry about the small increase in file size. > /gustav >> Gustav and Charlotte: >> Thanks. I was reading Charlotte's post yesterday and, thinking, well, >> yea, DUH on me...when it occurred to me that I'd seen all of this before >> or something similar...so I went to the archives and started searching on >> 'references' and found where you (Gustav) had written a note to search on >> what you just now told me to search on (again...ha!). >> I found exactly what I needed and it works! See. Old programmer memory >> doesn't really die or get erased, it just bytes the dust occasionally... >> I did notice that every time it recompiles the code (automatically thru >> the autoexec), the app file size grows some. And I can't tell it to >> compact it afterwards because then it would fire the autoexec again and go >> on forever. Is this an issue or should I just live with it? The file >> size itself is not an issue, but it seems kind of ... umm ... messy to me >> to keep growing like that. >> Thanks again for all your help... >> Greg Smith >> gregsmith at starband.net >>> Hi Greg >>> >>> Charlotte is right. If you feel you have a need to fiddle with the >>> references, this is the very first thing to do. No exceptions. >>> >>> Also, doing so will leave your app decompiled and you may need to >>> recompile afterwards. >>> >>> We had a long thread on this topic. >>> Look up the archive on >>> >>> "Broken References in Runtime AXP and A97" >>> >>> of 2003-07-23. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>> Greg, >>> >>>> It is logical that you cannot declare any objects before you verify >>>> the references. Even if the Office library isn't the one that's >>>> broken, you need to test the references before you do *anything* else, >>>> including declare object variables as anything but Object. >>> >>>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:58 AM >>>> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>>> Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 >>> >>> >>>> Hi everyone... >>> >>>> Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier post(s) about >>>> references and how to find broken ones (I don't have my list here at >>>> work so I don't have all the responses). >>> >>>> I still have the references issue. And it may be because of how I'm >>>> starting the program or how I have the references set. There is only >>>> one right now that is giving me the PITA, and it's to mso97.dll in the >>>> Office directory. Hard to test that one too, because if you delete >>>> it, Access won't start. >>> >>>> I can use the References.AddFromFile(...) code to set the reference. >>>> But there's a catch-22...if I don't have a reference to the MS Office >>>> 8.0 Object library, then the code: >>> >>>> Dim cbr as CommandBar >>> >>>> fails just before I can set the reference using: >>> >>>> SetRef = References.AddFromFile("c:\program >>>> files\msoffice97\office\mso97.dll") From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Aug 7 07:39:56 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:39:56 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs In-Reply-To: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F2908880E@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> References: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F2908880E@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> Message-ID: <1971570848.20040807143956@cactus.dk> Hi Stephen An alternative I have used, is to specify the form reference as a parameter as the reason for the trouble seems to be that Access find it too difficult to figure out what it is dealing with: PARAMETERS Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID Integer; SELECT ... etc. /gustav > That's good Stuart, I used to solve this by creating a temp table from the query with the criteria, then feeding this into the XtabQ. Good to find a better mousetrap. > Stephen Bond >> The cross tab is fed by a query not a table - So I went to the underlying 'feeder query'... >> and put in Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID into the 'feeder. Then ran the crosstab again... >> Same result - same error message. >> But if I run the 'feeder query' by itself using the >> Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID in the criteria portion of the grid - all is OK >> >> Is it the case that Crosstabs can't handle changeable or form bound criterias? > Yep, this problem bites in a number of situations. > My standard solution is to use a static function to store the content of > the form's control and use that in the query. > Put the following function in a module: > Static Function StoredVariable(Optional varInput As Variant) As Variant > Dim varStore As Variant > 'Initialise the variant if the function is called > 'the first time with no Input > If IsEmpty(varStore) Then varStore = Null > 'Update the store if the Input is present > If Not IsMissing(varInput) Then varStore = varInput > 'return the stored value > StoredVariable = varStore > End Function > In the query, replace "Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID " with > "=StoredVariable()" > Then put > "StoredVariable Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID" > or "returnvalue = StoredVariable(Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID)" > in code somewhere before you call the query. From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Aug 7 07:51:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:51:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 In-Reply-To: <521270026.20040807143455@cactus.dk> References: <521270026.20040807143455@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <712244156.20040807145109@cactus.dk> Oops, sorry: > I have advice on this. Perhaps others can chime in? I have no advice on this. Perhaps others can chime in? /gustav From Developer at UltraDNT.com Sat Aug 7 11:27:37 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 12:27:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K2 Set Link in Code for Database with Password In-Reply-To: <1971570848.20040807143956@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000201c47c9b$7695f250$0201a8c0@COA3> Using this type of line to link a table in BE to a front end app: DoCmd.TransferDatabase acLink, "Microsoft Access", _ , acTable, _ rs(0), rs(0), False, True How do I supply a password (mdb password, not using mdw) in this line so the user is not prompted for it? TIA Steve From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 7 13:52:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:52:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c47caf$ad9e72e0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Absolutely. It is laziness pure and simple. The data type tells me what values should be expected or at least what the developer expected. I tells me nothing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 2:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 7 14:06:54 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:06:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB232@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000d01c47cb1$b7327750$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 7 14:17:15 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:17:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys In-Reply-To: <200408060827.i768R4Q21243@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000e01c47cb3$2a07f010$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Done! One of those "I'll go find that someday" thinks. Someday just arrived! Thanks! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MG Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys Go to "Start/Help" Search for "report errors" and follow the leads. Basically it is in your System setting. You can stop all error reports, or select which progams to report/not report on. (Control Panel / System / Advanced Tab / Error Reporting - bottom right) Max Sherman From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 7 14:25:36 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:25:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <021401c47c1c$73baffa0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <000f01c47cb4$54dd4000$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> There are two kinds of people, those that divide people into tolerant and intolerant, and those that don't. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Instead, I say that we put all the intolerant people in camps and therein tied to cattle prods, until they become more tolerant, nay compliant with our every sick wish :-) Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 7:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Yes - I support tolerance......and let's not even start on those disclaimers... :) Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:06 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message I say we vote tolerance, and just put up with the bottom posters. Top posters and bottom posters, living hand in hand, one peaceful community. The List shall be a place of harmony. Now, people that have the 20 paragraph long legal disclaimer that is repeated 10 times in a thread......they're outta here! LOL. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sat Aug 7 14:43:11 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:43:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <000f01c47cb4$54dd4000$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <02b901c47cb6$c6147ca0$6601a8c0@rock> There are three kinds of programmers, those who can count and those who can't. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 3:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message There are two kinds of people, those that divide people into tolerant and intolerant, and those that don't. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From artful at rogers.com Sat Aug 7 14:56:02 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:56:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <000d01c47cb1$b7327750$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <02bf01c47cb8$9171fd90$6601a8c0@rock> When I originated this thread, my beef was about Hungarian prefixes. I have no dispute at all with typing every variable as optimally as possible. My original contention was the Hungarian prefixes increase noise at the expense of signal. In my last two projects, I have switched to what I call the "Object-Action" convention, augmented with Hungarian suffixes rather than prefixes. In your example, which refers to no actual objects, my version of your code might look like this: For WidgetCount_byt = 1 to 250 'do something Next WidgetCount_byt When referring to actual (Access) objects, something that I would formerly have called frmCustomer I now call Customer_frm. The underscore indicates that what follows is the object/data type. Everything before that follows standard proper-case notation, with the additional rule that the object of principal interest (Customer) is followed by the action(s) taken. In this new naming convention, I would never have a form called Customer_frm, since it does not specify the actions that can be taken. Given that four actions can in theory be taken (Select, Insert, Update, Delete), and that the initial letters of these four actions are unique, I can then reduce the Action part of the name to a sequence of one or more letters. CustomerSIUD_frm -- a form that presents the customer data and allows all four actions. (Code within the form, testing say user-level, might cause the Delete action to be unavailable, but that is beside the point, IMO.) What has really pleased me about this convention is the sort order in the database window. I don't have to look four letters in to find the objects relevant to any given table (i.e. learn to ignore the "frm" prefixes in the Form window -- no longer necessary -- I can type a "C" and maybe Customers is not the first table beginning with C but I'm close, right away. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 3:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 7 15:11:21 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 16:11:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <02bf01c47cb8$9171fd90$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <001001c47cba$b859ca30$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> And I have no beef with any of that, it is at least a convention. I or J or K is not. Or rather it is a convention, the convention being that in certain instances we don't use a convention. Now if we just had a convention to tell us what instances don't need a convention and what the implied convention is, well... Conventions (ANY of them) take time and effort to use. There is a certain member who I believe still frequents the list. One of those top notch minds who knew what he was doing. ABSOLUTELY UNREADABLE CODE. I looked at a lot of his stuff, hoping against hope to learn something from him. Nope. Now I know as well as the next that a For I next I all by itself is not going to make a piece of code unreadable, but it's the first step to unreadable code. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions When I originated this thread, my beef was about Hungarian prefixes. I have no dispute at all with typing every variable as optimally as possible. My original contention was the Hungarian prefixes increase noise at the expense of signal. In my last two projects, I have switched to what I call the "Object-Action" convention, augmented with Hungarian suffixes rather than prefixes. In your example, which refers to no actual objects, my version of your code might look like this: For WidgetCount_byt = 1 to 250 'do something Next WidgetCount_byt When referring to actual (Access) objects, something that I would formerly have called frmCustomer I now call Customer_frm. The underscore indicates that what follows is the object/data type. Everything before that follows standard proper-case notation, with the additional rule that the object of principal interest (Customer) is followed by the action(s) taken. In this new naming convention, I would never have a form called Customer_frm, since it does not specify the actions that can be taken. Given that four actions can in theory be taken (Select, Insert, Update, Delete), and that the initial letters of these four actions are unique, I can then reduce the Action part of the name to a sequence of one or more letters. CustomerSIUD_frm -- a form that presents the customer data and allows all four actions. (Code within the form, testing say user-level, might cause the Delete action to be unavailable, but that is beside the point, IMO.) What has really pleased me about this convention is the sort order in the database window. I don't have to look four letters in to find the objects relevant to any given table (i.e. learn to ignore the "frm" prefixes in the Form window -- no longer necessary -- I can type a "C" and maybe Customers is not the first table beginning with C but I'm close, right away. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 3:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Aug 7 18:23:10 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 09:23:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <02b901c47cb6$c6147ca0$6601a8c0@rock> References: <000f01c47cb4$54dd4000$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <4115F0FE.32730.C2820E5@lexacorp.com.pg> On 7 Aug 2004 at 15:43, Arthur Fuller wrote: > There are three kinds of programmers, those who can count and those who > can't. > There are 10 types of programmers, those who think in binary and those who don't. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Aug 8 09:51:59 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 16:51:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: <1618088971.20040703141936@cactus.dk> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB0AA@main2.marlow.com> <40E65CF7.7070905@shaw.ca> <1618088971.20040703141936@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <12722298793.20040808165159@cactus.dk> Hi all Browsing Mike Gunderloy's newsletter I noticed this which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else and makes a big difference between the earlier MSDE and the new SQL Server 2005 Express: --- One of the nicest things about SQL Server Express is what's been left out: the query governor from MSDE, which added arbitrary slowdowns when you had more than five active connections, is gone. This makes SQL Server Express a much more useful tool. In particular, many database-backed Web sites should be able to get by with this version of SQL Server and not pay a dime in licensing fees. The maximum size of databases is also doubled from MSDE, to 4GB. Maximum memory, however, is halved to 1 GB. Still, the majority of small and medium sites won't have a problem with this. You also get very nearly all of the features of the full, paid versions of SQL Server 2005. The major missing features include Reporting Services, Notification Services, Analysis Services, Full text search, DTS, and OLAP features. If you want to use these higher-end features, you need to move up to a non-free version of the product. What you DO get is pretty impressive. In addition to the features of SQL Server 2000, the 2005 revisions add thorough XML support, support for using the .NET Common Language Runtime integrated with T-SQL, a new set of management objects, and the ability to act as a client in both replication and messaging scenarios. .. --- /gustav From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 8 10:24:26 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 11:24:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: <12722298793.20040808165159@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040808152424.YRCN1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> It's true. :) Susan H. Hi all Browsing Mike Gunderloy's newsletter I noticed this which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else and makes a big difference between the earlier MSDE and the new SQL Server 2005 Express: --- One of the nicest things about SQL Server Express is what's been left out: the query governor from MSDE, which added arbitrary slowdowns when you had more than five active connections, is gone. This makes SQL Server Express a much more useful tool. In particular, many database-backed Web sites should be able to get by with this version of SQL Server and not pay a dime in licensing fees. The maximum size of databases is also doubled from MSDE, to 4GB. Maximum memory, however, is halved to 1 GB. Still, the majority of small and medium sites won't have a problem with this. From dwaters at usinternet.com Sun Aug 8 10:34:19 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 10:34:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: <8379385.1091978616863.JavaMail.root@sniper12.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000701c47d5d$2c0f5790$de1811d8@danwaters> Good Morning Gustav! You said, "a new set of management objects,". Do you know if these objects replace Enterprise Manager? Thanks! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor Hi all Browsing Mike Gunderloy's newsletter I noticed this which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else and makes a big difference between the earlier MSDE and the new SQL Server 2005 Express: --- One of the nicest things about SQL Server Express is what's been left out: the query governor from MSDE, which added arbitrary slowdowns when you had more than five active connections, is gone. This makes SQL Server Express a much more useful tool. In particular, many database-backed Web sites should be able to get by with this version of SQL Server and not pay a dime in licensing fees. The maximum size of databases is also doubled from MSDE, to 4GB. Maximum memory, however, is halved to 1 GB. Still, the majority of small and medium sites won't have a problem with this. You also get very nearly all of the features of the full, paid versions of SQL Server 2005. The major missing features include Reporting Services, Notification Services, Analysis Services, Full text search, DTS, and OLAP features. If you want to use these higher-end features, you need to move up to a non-free version of the product. What you DO get is pretty impressive. In addition to the features of SQL Server 2000, the 2005 revisions add thorough XML support, support for using the .NET Common Language Runtime integrated with T-SQL, a new set of management objects, and the ability to act as a client in both replication and messaging scenarios. .. --- /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Aug 8 10:50:53 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 17:50:53 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: <000701c47d5d$2c0f5790$de1811d8@danwaters> References: <000701c47d5d$2c0f5790$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: <4325832685.20040808175053@cactus.dk> Hi Dan > Good Morning Gustav! > You said, "a new set of management objects,". Do you know if these objects > replace Enterprise Manager? No the don't. They are not released yet, not even as a beta. > Thanks! You are welcome. But really, that should be addressed to Mike. Everyone should read his nice newsletter: http://www.adtmag.com/newsletters.asp?nl=DEV /gustav From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Aug 8 10:46:43 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 08:46:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: <12722298793.20040808165159@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Impressive.... :-) I have been holding back waiting for more comment and detail. The information supplied at the Microsoft site never seems to fully answer the questions as it is created by a sales team and not technical developers. Now I wonder if you can create the initial DB in SQL2000 or 2003, export the design and are there sufficient management tools to allow importing that design into SQL Server Express? Thanks Gustav Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 7:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor Hi all Browsing Mike Gunderloy's newsletter I noticed this which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else and makes a big difference between the earlier MSDE and the new SQL Server 2005 Express: --- One of the nicest things about SQL Server Express is what's been left out: the query governor from MSDE, which added arbitrary slowdowns when you had more than five active connections, is gone. This makes SQL Server Express a much more useful tool. In particular, many database-backed Web sites should be able to get by with this version of SQL Server and not pay a dime in licensing fees. The maximum size of databases is also doubled from MSDE, to 4GB. Maximum memory, however, is halved to 1 GB. Still, the majority of small and medium sites won't have a problem with this. You also get very nearly all of the features of the full, paid versions of SQL Server 2005. The major missing features include Reporting Services, Notification Services, Analysis Services, Full text search, DTS, and OLAP features. If you want to use these higher-end features, you need to move up to a non-free version of the product. What you DO get is pretty impressive. In addition to the features of SQL Server 2000, the 2005 revisions add thorough XML support, support for using the .NET Common Language Runtime integrated with T-SQL, a new set of management objects, and the ability to act as a client in both replication and messaging scenarios. .. --- /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sun Aug 8 11:25:54 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 09:25:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor References: <20040808152424.YRCN1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <41165412.4080601@shaw.ca> There are some glitches; some maybe sorted out with the Final release.. 1------------------------------------------------- SQL Express can't run on XP Home. There are rumors you may be able to modify TCP ports to get around this. System Requirements for Express http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/sysreqs/ 2 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ: Installing SQL Express side by side with SQL 2000 Enterprise Manager seems to break EM. It is still broken when You uninstall Express. SQLDMO9 is culprit. MS is supposed to release a new compatible version of EM to work with Beta real soon now. http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07/04/172956.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07.aspx 3 ------------------------------------------- I noticed that the DTS Runtime will not be included with SQL Express. In Access, you get the DTS Runtime when you install MSDE 2000. Does this mean that DTS will not be available to Access without full install of SQL Server 2005 not the Express version? . 4 ------------------------------------------------- SQL Server Express doesn't install any test databases but there is a sample pubs database script install from download pages. I think you can install side by side with MSDE but you will break EM Susan Harkins wrote: >It's true. :) > >Susan H. > >Hi all > >Browsing Mike Gunderloy's newsletter I noticed this which I haven't seen >mentioned anywhere else and makes a big difference between the earlier MSDE >and the new SQL Server 2005 Express: > >--- > >One of the nicest things about SQL Server Express is what's been left >out: the query governor from MSDE, which added arbitrary slowdowns when you >had more than five active connections, is gone. This makes SQL Server >Express a much more useful tool. In particular, many database-backed Web >sites should be able to get by with this version of SQL Server and not pay a >dime in licensing fees. The maximum size of databases is also doubled from >MSDE, to 4GB. Maximum memory, however, is halved to 1 GB. Still, the >majority of small and medium sites won't have a problem with this. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Aug 8 11:43:24 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 18:43:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K2 Set Link in Code for Database with Password In-Reply-To: <000201c47c9b$7695f250$0201a8c0@COA3> References: <000201c47c9b$7695f250$0201a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <17128983776.20040808184324@cactus.dk> Hi Steve You should have a look at the TableDefs collection and the Connect property. This is the way to go and will work faster too. If you look up the archive on "relink" you should find several examples. /gustav > Using this type of line to link a table in BE to a front end app: > DoCmd.TransferDatabase acLink, "Microsoft Access", _ > , acTable, _ > rs(0), rs(0), False, True > How do I supply a password (mdb password, not using mdw) in this line so > the user is not prompted for it? > TIA > Steve From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Aug 8 12:22:28 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 19:22:28 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Error loading DLL (CurrentProject.Connection) Message-ID: <11531327366.20040808192228@cactus.dk> Hi all I've now seen this error twice. Both times for code like this: Dim rst As ADODB.Recordset Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open "tblTable", CurrentProject.Connection, adOpenKeyset, adLockOptimistic The compiler stops at the line with rst.Open with the error message in the subject. After much trouble and testing, a reinstall (or update) of the MDAC did it in both cases. No explanation why. You can locate and download this from the Microsoft site: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/results.aspx?productID=&freetext=mdac&DisplayLang=en /gustav From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 8 15:48:44 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 16:48:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport Message-ID: <20040808204845.MWHA1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> The following procedure prints a "Missing Record" label in a subreport when there's a missing AutoNumber value -- I've based this particular example on the Products table in Northwind. It works fine, except for one thing -- it prints the subreport label text at the beginning of the Detail section -- before the first record. For the life I've me, I can't seem to shut it up! The subreport is positioned at the beginning of the Detail section, just above the actual controls. Susan H. 'Track record ProductID values. Public lngMissingRecordFlag As Long Private Sub Detail_Format(Cancel As Integer, FormatCount As Integer) 'If current record isn't one more than flag, print warning. Dim lngRecordCounter As Long lngRecordCounter = ProductID.Value If lngMissingRecordFlag = (lngRecordCounter - 1) Then Report.rptMissingRecordsub.Visible = False ElseIf lngMissingRecordFlag <> (lngRecordCounter - 1) Then Report.rptMissingRecordsub.Visible = True End If lngMissingRecordFlag = lngRecordCounter End Sub From d.dick at uws.edu.au Sun Aug 8 18:48:03 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:48:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Hide Queires via VBA Message-ID: <010501c47da2$25203c20$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all I sent this one out a few weeks a go. Don't think got a reply so Here we go again:-)) """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Hello all The following code hides all the tables in a dB- cool and it works well But there seems to be no "dot attributes" (.Attributes) setting for Queries from the QueryDefs object I basically wanna run some enumerating code like below and hide queries, forms etc Similar to rightclicking in the object window (Tables,Forms,Queries etc) then selecting an object say a table or form or a query then selecting PROPERTIES, then ticking the Attributes: Hidden checkbox Any ideas? Many thanks Darren Function f_HideAllTables () Dim db As DAO.Database Dim tbl As TableDef Set db = CurrentDb() For Each tbl In db.TableDefs tbl.Attributes = 2 Next Application.RefreshDatabaseWindow end function From sdhi at kalamazoo.net Sun Aug 8 20:53:04 2004 From: sdhi at kalamazoo.net (Sheri Hixson) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:53:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Message-ID: <000d01c47db3$a0061e30$02fea8c0@Sheri> I'm just not getting this. I have a 30,000 record table that I've imported. The first field has a product number with 4 hyphens - like 12-34-567-8888. I need to take the hyphens out of these product numbers. Hopefully with a query. I have Access XP and need this to be simple and hopefully as easy as possible. Any help would be appreciated. Dee From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Aug 8 21:04:52 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 12:04:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <000d01c47db3$a0061e30$02fea8c0@Sheri> Message-ID: <41176864.12618.11E2831F@lexacorp.com.pg> On 8 Aug 2004 at 21:53, Sheri Hixson wrote: > I'm just not getting this. I have a 30,000 record table that I've imported. > The first field has a product number with 4 hyphens - like 12-34-567-8888. I > need to take the hyphens out of these product numbers. Hopefully with a > query. I have Access XP and need this to be simple and hopefully as easy as > possible. Any help would be appreciated. > Since AccessSQL doesn't know about the built in Replace() function, try this: Create a function. Function MyReplace(OriginalText As String) As String MyReplace = Replace(OriginalText, "-", "") End Function Then run a query: "UPDATE myTable SET myField = MyReplace([myField]);" -- Stuart From sdhi at kalamazoo.net Sun Aug 8 21:18:36 2004 From: sdhi at kalamazoo.net (Sheri Hixson) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 22:18:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <41176864.12618.11E2831F@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001501c47db7$2eb5a580$02fea8c0@Sheri> "Create a function" ? Could you explain the steps involved for that? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 10:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. On 8 Aug 2004 at 21:53, Sheri Hixson wrote: > I'm just not getting this. I have a 30,000 record table that I've > imported. The first field has a product number with 4 hyphens - like > 12-34-567-8888. I need to take the hyphens out of these product > numbers. Hopefully with a query. I have Access XP and need this to be > simple and hopefully as easy as possible. Any help would be > appreciated. > Since AccessSQL doesn't know about the built in Replace() function, try this: Create a function. Function MyReplace(OriginalText As String) As String MyReplace = Replace(OriginalText, "-", "") End Function Then run a query: "UPDATE myTable SET myField = MyReplace([myField]);" -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Aug 8 21:47:13 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 12:47:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <001501c47db7$2eb5a580$02fea8c0@Sheri> References: <41176864.12618.11E2831F@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <41177251.3177.120947AE@lexacorp.com.pg> On 8 Aug 2004 at 22:18, Sheri Hixson wrote: > "Create a function" ? Could you explain the steps involved for that? Thanks. > 1. Open the database WIndow 2. Go To "Modules" 3. Click on "New" 4. Type in the function (or paste it from the last email) 5. Hit Ctrl+S to save the module (accept the default name when prompted) 6.Close the VBA editor window. -- Stuart From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Sun Aug 8 21:59:38 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 22:59:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. References: <41176864.12618.11E2831F@lexacorp.com.pg> <41177251.3177.120947AE@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <060b01c47dbc$e9593dc0$6401a8c0@default> But Stuart ... lol How can she run the function if you make the query in code and then close the VBA Editor? ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > 1. Open the database WIndow > 2. Go To "Modules" > 3. Click on "New" > 4. Type in the function (or paste it from the last email) > 5. Hit Ctrl+S to save the module (accept the default name when prompted) > 6.Close the VBA editor window. > -- > Stuart From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Sun Aug 8 22:03:40 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:03:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. References: <41176864.12618.11E2831F@lexacorp.com.pg><41177251.3177.120947AE@lexacorp.com.pg> <060b01c47dbc$e9593dc0$6401a8c0@default> Message-ID: <061b01c47dbd$79f903b0$6401a8c0@default> Just kidding ... ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael R Mattys" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 10:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. > But Stuart ... lol > > How can she run the function if you > make the query in code and then close > the VBA Editor? > > ---- > > Michael R. Mattys > Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint > http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > > > > 1. Open the database WIndow > > 2. Go To "Modules" > > 3. Click on "New" > > 4. Type in the function (or paste it from the last email) > > 5. Hit Ctrl+S to save the module (accept the default name when prompted) > > 6.Close the VBA editor window. > > -- > > Stuart > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun Aug 8 23:35:21 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:35:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. References: <000d01c47db3$a0061e30$02fea8c0@Sheri> Message-ID: <01c501c47dca$4818ff00$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Sheri: Assuming the format is the same, I'd first create a new field to hold the stripped product number, then use an update query and update the new field to: Left(fldProdNo,2) & Mid(fldProdNo,4,2) & Mid(fldProdNo,7,3) & Right(fldProdNo,4). I think that will work. HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheri Hixson" To: Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 6:53 PM Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. > I'm just not getting this. I have a 30,000 record table that I've imported. > The first field has a product number with 4 hyphens - like 12-34-567-8888. I > need to take the hyphens out of these product numbers. Hopefully with a > query. I have Access XP and need this to be simple and hopefully as easy as > possible. Any help would be appreciated. > > Dee > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Aug 8 23:49:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:49:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB243@main2.marlow.com> Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From thewaddles at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 9 00:48:19 2004 From: thewaddles at sbcglobal.net (Kevin Waddle) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 22:48:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Create a Search In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE89B9@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <000001c47dd4$7a760470$a87ffea9@TheWaddles> Virginia, This works well for me... I'll try to break down my spaghetti code. I have an Events Log mdb where users enter significant events. The table contains, among other things, the fields: EventDate (When did it happen) Reporter (Who logged it) Notes (What happened) The search form contains fields (Text or ComboBox) for: BeginningDate (A TextBox populated with the Calendar Control) EndingDate (A TextBox populated with the Calendar Control) Reporter (A ComboBox pulling data from a Table with Authorized Reporters) Notes (A TextBox populated with the search string for the Notes Field) The code below creates a string to use as the "WhereCondition" in the DoCmd.OperReport command. The string ends up being... Where... EventDate >= Forms!Main!beginningdate.value and EventDate <= Forms!Main!endingdate.value and reporter = 'Waddle SMS' and notes Like '*' & Forms!Main!txt_notes.value & '*' and category1 Like '*' & Forms!Main!txt_category.value & '*' '*** Code Start *** Private Sub SearchReport_Click() On Error GoTo Err_SearchReport_Click Dim stDocName As String Dim stLinkCriteria As String Dim DateError As Variant Dim strREPORTER As String Dim strFollowup As String If txt_Reporter.Value <> "" Then strREPORTER = " and reporter = '" & txt_Reporter.Value & "'" Else strREPORTER = "" End If If chkFollowup = -1 Then strFollowup = " and followup = -1" Else strFollowup = "" End If stDocName = "LogBook" stLinkCriteria = "EventDate >= Forms!Main!beginningdate.value and " _ & "EventDate <= Forms!Main!endingdate.value" & strREPORTER If EndingDate.Value < BeginningDate.Value Then DateError = msgbox("You have entered an ENDING DATE that is " & Chr(13) _ & "earlier than the BEGINNING DATE" _ & Chr(13) & Chr(13) _ & "Enter a New Date", _ vbCritical + vbOKOnly, "Date Error") BeginningDate.Value = Date EndingDate.Value = Date BeginningDate.SetFocus Else stDocName = "LogBook" stLinkCriteria = "EventDate >= Forms!Main!beginningdate.value and " _ & "EventDate <= Forms!Main!endingdate.value" _ & strREPORTER & strFollowup If txtNotes.Value <> "" Then stLinkCriteria = stLinkCriteria & " and notes Like '*' & Forms!Main!txtNotes.value & '*'" End If If txtCategory.Value <> "" Then stLinkCriteria = stLinkCriteria & " and category1 Like '*' & Forms!Main!txtCategory.value & '*'" End If DoCmd.OpenReport stDocName, acViewPreview, , stLinkCriteria DoCmd.Maximize End If Exit_SearchReport_Click: Exit Sub Err_SearchReport_Click: Debug.Print Err.Number & " " & Err.Description Resume Exit_SearchReport_Click End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 4:48 AM To: 'accessD at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Create a Search Does anyone have an example of creating a report by selecting search criteria from fields? I had a request today to add a custom report builder to one of my databases. Some of the fields will be text where they can enter what they need and other criteria will be from a combobox, they also want a date range field. Then! they want to be able to save the criteria for later use. For example - Document number - text box, Document type will be a combobox. I want to know all the documents created during a certain month, quarter, year, etc.). I have tried something like this several times, but when it comes to having more than one search criteria, I can never seem to make it work - then adding a date on top of that - well, I am lost. Thanks, Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 7/16/2004 From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 9 02:22:01 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 08:22:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <061b01c47dbd$79f903b0$6401a8c0@default> Message-ID: <005901c47de1$903f2ef0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Be fair guys. It's not going to encourage new listers if we make fun of their questions. We all (or most) at times ask questions which seem basic to others, but the list prides itself on treating everyone the same. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Michael R Mattys > Sent: 09 August 2004 04:04 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. > > > Just kidding ... > ---- > > Michael R. Mattys > > Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael R Mattys" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 10:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. > > > > But Stuart ... lol > > > > How can she run the function if you > > make the query in code and then close > > the VBA Editor? > > > > ---- > > > > Michael R. Mattys > > Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Open the database WIndow > > > 2. Go To "Modules" > > > 3. Click on "New" > > > 4. Type in the function (or paste it from the last email) > > > 5. Hit Ctrl+S to save the module (accept the default name > when prompted) > > > 6.Close the VBA editor window. > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 9 02:41:33 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:41:33 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport In-Reply-To: <20040808204845.MWHA1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040808204845.MWHA1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <1645061558.20040809094133@cactus.dk> Hi Susan So what you are trying to say is that the label should be set Visible or not just like the subreport? If so, is the label invisible if you manually (in report design) make the subreport not visible? /gustav > The following procedure prints a "Missing Record" label in a subreport when > there's a missing AutoNumber value -- I've based this particular example on > the Products table in Northwind. It works fine, except for one thing -- it > prints the subreport label text at the beginning of the Detail section -- > before the first record. For the life I've me, I can't seem to shut it up! > The subreport is positioned at the beginning of the Detail section, just > above the actual controls. > Susan H. > 'Track record ProductID values. > Public lngMissingRecordFlag As Long > Private Sub Detail_Format(Cancel As Integer, FormatCount As Integer) > 'If current record isn't one more than flag, print warning. > Dim lngRecordCounter As Long > lngRecordCounter = ProductID.Value > If lngMissingRecordFlag = (lngRecordCounter - 1) Then > Report.rptMissingRecordsub.Visible = False > ElseIf lngMissingRecordFlag <> (lngRecordCounter - 1) Then > Report.rptMissingRecordsub.Visible = True > End If > lngMissingRecordFlag = lngRecordCounter > End Sub From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Mon Aug 9 03:26:38 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:26:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Hide Queires via VBA Message-ID: Darren - How do you get to see these hidden features (the tables in this instance) after they are hidden away? Could there be something disguised on the User's form that can Unhide them? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:48 AM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Hide Queires via VBA Hello all I sent this one out a few weeks a go. Don't think got a reply so Here we go again:-)) """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Hello all The following code hides all the tables in a dB- cool and it works well But there seems to be no "dot attributes" (.Attributes) setting for Queries from the QueryDefs object I basically wanna run some enumerating code like below and hide queries, forms etc Similar to rightclicking in the object window (Tables,Forms,Queries etc) then selecting an object say a table or form or a query then selecting PROPERTIES, then ticking the Attributes: Hidden checkbox Any ideas? Many thanks Darren Function f_HideAllTables () Dim db As DAO.Database Dim tbl As TableDef Set db = CurrentDb() For Each tbl In db.TableDefs tbl.Attributes = 2 Next Application.RefreshDatabaseWindow end function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 9 03:47:15 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:47:15 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] CA Ingres r3 database engine as open source Message-ID: <889003696.20040809104715@cactus.dk> Hi all Did you see this: http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Product.asp?id=1013 I have zero experience with Ingres so I cannot judge the value of the CA offering. /gustav From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Aug 9 07:14:46 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 22:14:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <005901c47de1$903f2ef0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> References: <061b01c47dbd$79f903b0$6401a8c0@default> Message-ID: <4117F756.3056.1410E3B3@lexacorp.com.pg> On 9 Aug 2004 at 8:22, Andy Lacey wrote: > Be fair guys. It's not going to encourage new listers if we make fun of > their questions. We all (or most) at times ask questions which seem basic to > others, but the list prides itself on treating everyone the same. > Mea Culpa. Sorry-- Stuart From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 9 08:26:10 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:26:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport In-Reply-To: <1645061558.20040809094133@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040809132610.XUJF1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> So what you are trying to say is that the label should be set Visible or not just like the subreport? =====Report.rptMissingRecordsub.Visible = False === Right, it's the subreport I'm toggling off and on. If so, is the label invisible if you manually (in report design) make the subreport not visible? The subreport is actually printing before the current record -- which makes it look like there's a spot for the missing record, when there really isn't -- when there's no missing record, the subreport doesn't print and the Detail section shrinks accordingly. It's really a very very simple little routine and it works great, except for this one problem. Odd. =====Yes. Interestingly, another report that uses slightly different code works as expected, so I can only summise that it's in that counter, but I can't figure it out. I've walked through it and the condition works as expected, but when I run it right out, it prints the subreport just above the first record. The rest of the report works as expected. Below is the procedure that works -- same records, but different condition and the subreport prints only where it's supposed to. In this report, it prints on top of the record. Private Sub Detail_Format(Cancel As Integer, FormatCount As Integer) 'Display warning text if product is discontinued. If Discontinued = -1 Then Report.rptDiscontinuedsub.Visible = True Else Report.rptDiscontinuedsub.Visible = False End If End Sub > The following procedure prints a "Missing Record" label in a subreport > when there's a missing AutoNumber value -- I've based this particular > example on the Products table in Northwind. It works fine, except for > one thing -- it prints the subreport label text at the beginning of > the Detail section -- before the first record. For the life I've me, I can't seem to shut it up! > The subreport is positioned at the beginning of the Detail section, > just above the actual controls. > Susan H. > 'Track record ProductID values. > Public lngMissingRecordFlag As Long > Private Sub Detail_Format(Cancel As Integer, FormatCount As Integer) > 'If current record isn't one more than flag, print warning. > Dim lngRecordCounter As Long > lngRecordCounter = ProductID.Value > If lngMissingRecordFlag = (lngRecordCounter - 1) Then > Report.rptMissingRecordsub.Visible = False > ElseIf lngMissingRecordFlag <> (lngRecordCounter - 1) Then > Report.rptMissingRecordsub.Visible = True > End If > lngMissingRecordFlag = lngRecordCounter End Sub -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 9 08:31:23 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:31:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport In-Reply-To: <20040809132610.XUJF1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <20040809133125.XXMG1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Oh Gustav... Sorry... What you said just sunk in -- no, I hadn't tried that -- I will. Susan H. If so, is the label invisible if you manually (in report design) make the subreport not visible? From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Aug 9 08:45:43 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 08:45:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Scrolling in Code Window!! Message-ID: <001001c47e17$2aac2990$de1811d8@danwaters> Hallelujah! Go to KB 837910. It describes two ways to make mouse wheel scrolling active in a code window. I haven't been able to do this for a long while, and really missed it! Dan Waters From JColby at dispec.com Mon Aug 9 08:54:37 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:54:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDA4@DISABILITYINS01> So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? The old style coding that used I or J or K was intentionally, with malice and forethought replaced with meaningful names precisely because trying to read such code sucks bigtime. And yes, I realize that those who use I, J and K make wishy washy claims that it is actually more efficient. I have programmed in C and I can write "more efficient" code that even an experienced C programmer can't interpret. Just because you can doesn't mean you should! The whole point of a naming convention is to be able to read the name and see what it is for. Yes, I MAY be interpreted "automatically" as a counting integer (by YOU), but counting WHAT? Is it the row of a one dimension array? Or the row counter of a two dim array? or a three dim array? Or a collection? I is, you have to admit, pretty much useless in telling me anything. If I want to know, I have to go look at the dim, statement, then I have to go look at the For Next row, just to find out what I does for me. So what you are saying in your argument is that you simply don't care about those who come behind. It works for you and that when you are not maintaining the code why should you care? -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 9 09:24:03 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:24:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <01c501c47dca$4818ff00$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <012e01c47e1c$855571d0$6601a8c0@rock> An even simpler method which doesn't require creation of a new function, just uses an existing one, is to create an update query that updates the column of interest using Replace(). Here's a simple example. In the debug window type: ? replace("test-test-test-test","-","") Access responds with: Testtesttesttest So to do this in a query, in the query builder, change the query type to update, select the column of interest, and in the update row type: replace([ColumnOfInterest],"-","") Substitute the actual column name for [ColumnOfInterest]. Run the query and you're done. The advantage of doing it this way is that you depend neither on the exact location of the "-", nor the number of them. HTH, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Sheri: Assuming the format is the same, I'd first create a new field to hold the stripped product number, then use an update query and update the new field to: Left(fldProdNo,2) & Mid(fldProdNo,4,2) & Mid(fldProdNo,7,3) & Right(fldProdNo,4). I think that will work. HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheri Hixson" To: Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 6:53 PM Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. > I'm just not getting this. I have a 30,000 record table that I've imported. > The first field has a product number with 4 hyphens - like > 12-34-567-8888. I > need to take the hyphens out of these product numbers. Hopefully with > a query. I have Access XP and need this to be simple and hopefully as > easy as > possible. Any help would be appreciated. > > Dee > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon Aug 9 09:37:53 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:37:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Ouch, John...pretty harsh, but exactly right! Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... strEmployeeList(i,j) 'what does i and j stand for? strEmployeeList(intI, intJ) 'still, what does intI and intJ stand for? strEmployeeList(intEmployeeType, intEmployeeCounter) 'seems understandable to me -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? The old style coding that used I or J or K was intentionally, with malice and forethought replaced with meaningful names precisely because trying to read such code sucks bigtime. And yes, I realize that those who use I, J and K make wishy washy claims that it is actually more efficient. I have programmed in C and I can write "more efficient" code that even an experienced C programmer can't interpret. Just because you can doesn't mean you should! The whole point of a naming convention is to be able to read the name and see what it is for. Yes, I MAY be interpreted "automatically" as a counting integer (by YOU), but counting WHAT? Is it the row of a one dimension array? Or the row counter of a two dim array? or a three dim array? Or a collection? I is, you have to admit, pretty much useless in telling me anything. If I want to know, I have to go look at the dim, statement, then I have to go look at the For Next row, just to find out what I does for me. So what you are saying in your argument is that you simply don't care about those who come behind. It works for you and that when you are not maintaining the code why should you care? From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 9 09:42:31 2004 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:42:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Scrolling in Code Window!! Message-ID: Hi group, This is something that will work in the code window, but what about scrolling on a form? Can I use this on an Access form to scroll in a tree view control when I want to drag and drop from the top of one node to the top of another node. The second node is below the window, and when I try to drop my item, moving my mouse down the form, I cannot go beyond the existing window. Cannot find anything in the knowledge base that relates to this issue. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From lytlenj at yahoo.com Mon Aug 9 09:49:59 2004 From: lytlenj at yahoo.com (Nancy Lytle) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 07:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Create a Search Message-ID: <20040809144959.58682.qmail@web53903.mail.yahoo.com> Susan, did you check out Steve Nyberg's Rfil report filtering, you can add it to the database and it will let them filter any report based on any field it contains. They can also save the filter for later use. Nancy Lytle From JColby at dispec.com Mon Aug 9 10:05:01 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:05:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDA5@DISABILITYINS01> >Ouch, John...pretty harsh, but exactly right! Yea. Sorry bout that. I do get a little uh... harsh sometimes. Your example hits the nail right on the head. Particularly when dealing with arrays, each dimension means something, and getting them backwards is deadly. And of course, arrays is one of the big uses for counters. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ouch, John...pretty harsh, but exactly right! Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... strEmployeeList(i,j) 'what does i and j stand for? strEmployeeList(intI, intJ) 'still, what does intI and intJ stand for? strEmployeeList(intEmployeeType, intEmployeeCounter) 'seems understandable to me -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? The old style coding that used I or J or K was intentionally, with malice and forethought replaced with meaningful names precisely because trying to read such code sucks bigtime. And yes, I realize that those who use I, J and K make wishy washy claims that it is actually more efficient. I have programmed in C and I can write "more efficient" code that even an experienced C programmer can't interpret. Just because you can doesn't mean you should! The whole point of a naming convention is to be able to read the name and see what it is for. Yes, I MAY be interpreted "automatically" as a counting integer (by YOU), but counting WHAT? Is it the row of a one dimension array? Or the row counter of a two dim array? or a three dim array? Or a collection? I is, you have to admit, pretty much useless in telling me anything. If I want to know, I have to go look at the dim, statement, then I have to go look at the For Next row, just to find out what I does for me. So what you are saying in your argument is that you simply don't care about those who come behind. It works for you and that when you are not maintaining the code why should you care? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 9 10:13:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:13:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB247@main2.marlow.com> I second that! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 2:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Be fair guys. It's not going to encourage new listers if we make fun of their questions. We all (or most) at times ask questions which seem basic to others, but the list prides itself on treating everyone the same. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Michael R Mattys > Sent: 09 August 2004 04:04 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. > > > Just kidding ... > ---- > > Michael R. Mattys > > Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael R Mattys" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 10:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. > > > > But Stuart ... lol > > > > How can she run the function if you > > make the query in code and then close > > the VBA Editor? > > > > ---- > > > > Michael R. Mattys > > Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Open the database WIndow > > > 2. Go To "Modules" > > > 3. Click on "New" > > > 4. Type in the function (or paste it from the last email) > > > 5. Hit Ctrl+S to save the module (accept the default name > when prompted) > > > 6.Close the VBA editor window. > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 9 10:33:31 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:33:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB243@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <013401c47e26$3a582a10$6601a8c0@rock> Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 9 10:35:01 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:35:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <005901c47de1$903f2ef0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <013501c47e26$6f8aa230$6601a8c0@rock> Hear, hear! The best qualities of a good teacher are humility and patience. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Be fair guys. It's not going to encourage new listers if we make fun of their questions. We all (or most) at times ask questions which seem basic to others, but the list prides itself on treating everyone the same. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 9 10:42:10 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:42:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Create a Search In-Reply-To: <20040809144959.58682.qmail@web53903.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <013801c47e27$6f676d50$6601a8c0@rock> I googled and got there, but the download part is confusing. I want the Access 2000/+ version. The only link on that page that I can see points to rfil97, not anything higher. Am I supposed to download that and upgrade it? Could be my eyes, which are fading :) TIA, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Nancy Lytle Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:50 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Create a Search Susan, did you check out Steve Nyberg's Rfil report filtering, you can add it to the database and it will let them filter any report based on any field it contains. They can also save the filter for later use. Nancy Lytle -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Mon Aug 9 10:49:04 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:49:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDA6@DISABILITYINS01> Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Mon Aug 9 10:51:16 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:51:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDA8@DISABILITYINS01> LOL. So THAT'S why I fail so miserably getting my points across. ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Hear, hear! The best qualities of a good teacher are humility and patience. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Be fair guys. It's not going to encourage new listers if we make fun of their questions. We all (or most) at times ask questions which seem basic to others, but the list prides itself on treating everyone the same. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Aug 9 10:55:18 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:55:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FED1B@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> John, Magic (unexplained) numbers are always problematic. But if: i = 1 to lngRecordCount... Should we still need to expand on i? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 10:55:42 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 08:55:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: What, JC agreeing with me?? Has anyone checked the temperature in Hell lately? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Mon Aug 9 10:57:40 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:57:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED195@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Thanks to everyone who responded. Seems I threw a stone in the pond. :) I guess I should have explained the situation more clearly (I was in a bit of a rush). The 'details' are both objects and rows in a table. They are objects as far as the front end is concerned but generated on the fly according to definitions held in a table. They are part of a 3rd party system which is written in Informix and over which I have no back-end control. The table is set up as follows: CODE TEXT DATE MARKER VALUE MANDATORY Y/N ...and with a few other bits of info. There is no facility to autonumber the 'details' although the code does have to be unique. When creating a new code you can see the existing codes so you could potentially just pick the next number. I can see the point about autonumber PKs and yes, strictly speaking the code field is the PK on this table. My usual approach, when creating a lookup for example, is that I would use an autonumber, plus a 'friendly' code, plus the full description. When creating joins you can use the autonumber, when running reports & so forth (we run an awful lot of one-off reports) you can use the friendly code. I take the point about not stuffing a load of information into a single code, and would ideally set up several category columns. Unfortunately I don't have the option. The real problem is that anyone developing in this system has to work with the codes. There are several places in the bespoke development environment where you can see the code but not the description. We have inherited a mixture of meaningful codes and numeric codes from earlier development projects and we find the numeric ones almost impossible to remember, thus slowing us down while we go hunt out the correct code. There are several thousand 'details' in the system. Anyway, having read all your input and discussed this with my team I decided to impose my world view on the contractor >.< I hope y'all won't hate me for being one of those nasty clients :( Roz -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: 04 August 2004 19:01 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? What do you mean by 'details'? If you are referring to data within the tables, then you should really split things into separate fields. If a record is for a 'current phase' of development, then you create a phase of development field. If you are talking about object names.....I would go with your approach. My personal opinion of naming conventions is that you should use what makes sense to you, and the system you are working on. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 7:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? << File: ATT04991.txt >> << File: ATT04992.txt >> Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 11:03:05 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:03:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: May I point out that you previously said these variables represented longs because you *always* use longs as counters. Now you're saying they're "counting integers". It seems you've demonstrated the problem I raised quite nicely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 8:49 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 9 11:26:33 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:26:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDA8@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <014301c47e2d$a2b426c0$6601a8c0@rock> ROFL! Not to divert this thread into the OT group, but I just had an experience I feel obligated to share, and it's on point. I play a musical instrument called tabla; for those unacquainted with tabla, it's a pair of drums, one bass and one treble, as it were. Tabla are core instruments in Indian, Pakistani, Afghani and generally Persian musics (with variations in Morroccan etc. musics). Recently the son of one of my closest friends visited me for a few days. He's 18 and a drummer (kit, as in standard Rock kit), but when he was 11 I introduced him to tabla. And on this recent visit he told me that I was his inspiration to become a drummer. That is a most gratifying feeling! Last Thursday Sean and I visited my tabla teacher, who is without question one of the finest tabla players in the world, and almost certainly the finest in "singing the notes" (i.e. every tabla stroke has a name, and there exists notation for stupid white folks such as myself, but the method begins at "singing the notes" and then once you can sing it you can simply type it out. Ritesh is IMO the best in the world at "singing the notes". Anyway, young Sean and I went to a rehearsal of the Toronto Tabla Ensemble. We heard the group practise three or four compositions repeatedly. Young Sean got into it -- hell, he was transported! I looked at his face and his fingers tapping on his thighs and it was beautiful. He has WAY more talent than I. After 20 years of study, I remain a lousy player of tabla. Not Sean! After my brief introduction and induction into a rehearsal with one of the finest in the world, Sean is Gone, I daresay. The point of this story is this: we walked in a little late, when they were already rehearsing. Ritesh spotted us and while the group was playing, he stopped and said, "Hey, Arthur! This must be your friend Sean!" (I had told Ritesh we were coming.) They continued the rehearsal and when it was time to take a break, Ritesh came to us and shook my hand and turned to Sean and said, "Welcome, Sean. I hear Arthur was your inspiration." Sean lives in Boston, and Ritesh immediately connected him with a few tabla players in that city. One of the finest tabla players in the world, Ritesh is utterly without ego/snob/primadonna pretensions. He trusted the fact that I brought Sean there as evidence enough. Perhaps I'm not even part of the loop. Had Sean gone there himself, Ritesh would undoubtedly treated him the same. Drums are his life, and anyone interested is therefore a friend. Occasionally, I too teach courses. I'm trying to keep the model of Ritesh in my mind. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. LOL. So THAT'S why I fail so miserably getting my points across. ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Hear, hear! The best qualities of a good teacher are humility and patience. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Be fair guys. It's not going to encourage new listers if we make fun of their questions. We all (or most) at times ask questions which seem basic to others, but the list prides itself on treating everyone the same. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 9 11:27:34 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:27:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDA6@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <014401c47e2d$c708d750$6601a8c0@rock> If it's in a comment why does it need to be in the code? A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 11:39:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:39:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: Drew, You also posted in Woody's Lounge, but I'll repeat some of my response here for the archives. I have DoEvents in my code, and it makes no difference. There was a Jet 4.0 issue mentioned in an MSKB article on A2k, but I haven't found anything specific for AXP. I'm assuming that this may be the culprit, since the symptoms are quite odd, and once the error occurs, it will keep occurring and continue for hundreds of recurrences. Let me clarify the situation: when I said the same file was being imported repeatedly, I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer interval has elapsed. What appears to happen is that after several hundred reiterations of this process, the data simply doesn't get imported and we get a log like this: Started at: 05:14 06-Aug-04 File successfully unzipped. Warning: Application and Export File Version Difference! Data Exported from Application Version: 4.19 Date: 17-Dec-2002 Data Imported into Application Version: 4.50 Date: 22-Apr-2004 Data updated to Temporary Tables Data successfully loaded in Temporary Tables There are no Well-related records remaining in this data import after removing all Write-protected records. Import aborted due to Unit Configuration errors in import file. Completed at: 05:14 06-Aug-04 Elapsed Time: 0 mins 1 secs The fact is, there is data in the comma-delimited text files, but it is NOT loaded into the temporary tables this time, nor at any future time until Access is restarted. Instead, you get a series of 3310 errors: "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet." The error is meaningless in context, but there it is. There is nothing wrong with the import specs, since they work after Access is restarted, but TransferText appears to break down entirely. In fact, you can't even use it from the immediate window because you get the same kind of error. That "memory leak" type of behavior echoes the reported problems with Jet 4 in A2k. Unfortunately, I can't find the reference to that MSKB article at the moment (of course), so I can't be more specific, and as I recall it was supposed to have been cured by one of the earlier Jet 4 service packs. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:17 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Okay, did a little testing on my own, with Access 97. Used the following code: Dim i Do Until i=-1 docmd.TransferText ....... i=i+1 Me.lblStatus.Caption="Importing: " & i 'DoEvents Loop Now, as is, above, the code Kicked up an 2051 error when i=11593 (It had imported 46372 records). Stopping the code, compacting the database, repairing the database, nothing would let the code start up again (without immediately kicking up that error message....which said something along the lines of a dialog box was not clicked or something.....), until I closed Access, and opened it up again, then it started right back up. Next time, it didn't error, it just hung. It sat at a record level of ~120,000 for about ten minutes, then I just killed it. No error, but it was definitely failing. Once I remove the quote before DoEvents, so that it would run, it seems to just fly, with no stopping. As I'm typing this, it's imported the records 1.5 million times and still going. Here's my theory. Jet is multi-threaded. I've had a little experience with multi-threading VB projects. One thing I know with doing that, is you have to be EXTREMELY careful when accessing a database. In fact, it is almost mandatory to force only one thread to do db transactions. If two threads try db transactions 'simultaneously', all sorts of things will happen (from just losing the thread, all the way to corrupting the database....not kidding...). The reason is that Windows isn't really paying attention to what a thread is doing when it gives time to the next one. So if two threads hit the db at the right time, it can REALLY get goofy. I'm sure the developers had that in mind when creating the TransferText method, however, they also probably didn't count on someone importing a file over and over and over, without a break. So what is probably happening, is that you are getting 'thread lock', where one or more of Jet's threads are locked, and there is nothing you can do about it, until you close Access, which will release the Jet threads. Now, I think putting in a DoEvents simply let's the VBA pause long enough to let the Jet threads finish what they need too, before being called again. Hope this helps in someway. Drew P.S. (It's now at 1.78 mill and counting....with the DoEvents....) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:49 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Cc: Steve White Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Mon Aug 9 11:30:58 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:30:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE4C@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> We should definitely eschew obfuscation! The main reason I using naming conventions is I hate running across old unreadable code and realizing I was the idiot who wrote it :-(. On the other hand, the only way I will give up my x, y and i counters is when they pry them from my cold, dead hands . These are my last links with days of old when real men programmed in assembler, Fortran was cutting edge, etc., etc. This recalls a discussion sometime ago when one of our younger cohorts asked what was wrong with generating an error to test for a condition in code such as On Error Resume Next Set appExcel = GetObject(, "Excel.Application") Excel_is_running = (Err.Number = 0) The answer is nothing is wrong but I shuttered nonetheless. I avoid code like that and I guess it goes back to the FORTRAN days when one itty bitty error would generate pages of error codes . Hey, we can't deny our roots. If you want my rationalization a) my loops are short enough that the meaning of the counter is intrinsically obvious to the casual observer and b) I find array(x,y) easier to follow and read than array(somehumongousmultidimensionalname,yetanotherincrediblyingenious name) in fun, Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 11:57:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:57:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: Unfortunately, I would have to rewrite the application to do that, Gustav. If I were importing a single file, it might be OK, but we are unzipping a file that may contain text files exported from any group of the data tables in our application. We have to loop through the individual tables, see if a text file for that table has been included, and import the data appropriately into a temporary table where any type or units conversion and internationalization issues can be handled before moving the data into the main tables. We also have to deal with files that might have been created by an earlier version of our application, which means they may require special temporary tables to match the shape used in that earlier version. You get the idea. It would be a nightmare to build and maintain direct file I/O routines in code, complete with special handling. I could do it, but my bosses would scream for a week ... And then catch their breath and start over again. :-{ Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Hi Charlotte The fail on TransferText is probably only a sympton not the error. Or maybe it is; it uses the "external ISAM" I guess. Nevertheless, you could try replacing the TransferText routine with a simple "Open File and read in line by line" routine. I'm sure you know how to this. It may even be faster than TransferText. /gustav > I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the > archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so > I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does > nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To > stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a > zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each > compatible with a table in the database structure) to import > repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves > beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily > imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and > starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for > external data sources or for databases created with a previous version > of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this > is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. > After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI > until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the > database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, > because the module level and global variables are still populated. I > can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access > can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out > of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and > see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can > replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across > machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of > *when* it breaks vary slightly. > I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, > but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. > Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > Charlotte Foust > Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 11:59:29 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:59:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: Thanks, but I'm not using Office 2003. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MG [mailto:mgauk at btconnect.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Steve White Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may hold some answers for you. Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Cc: Steve White Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 9 12:15:30 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 19:15:30 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5639498435.20040809191530@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte I understand that. That leaves you with the DoEvent trick from Drew and the tip on monitoring threads from Stuart ... Also, did you check on the printer driver? I know this is a long shot but I've seen so many problems related to these at the latest, indeed for drivers for the modern mega-copy-printer-scan beasts. Would you keep us posted on progress solving this issue? /gustav > Unfortunately, I would have to rewrite the application to do that, > Gustav. If I were importing a single file, it might be OK, but we are > unzipping a file that may contain text files exported from any group of > the data tables in our application. We have to loop through the > individual tables, see if a text file for that table has been included, > and import the data appropriately into a temporary table where any type > or units conversion and internationalization issues can be handled > before moving the data into the main tables. We also have to deal with > files that might have been created by an earlier version of our > application, which means they may require special temporary tables to > match the shape used in that earlier version. You get the idea. It > would be a nightmare to build and maintain direct file I/O routines in > code, complete with special handling. I could do it, but my bosses > would scream for a week ... And then catch their breath and start over > again. :-{ > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > Hi Charlotte > The fail on TransferText is probably only a sympton not the error. Or > maybe it is; it uses the "external ISAM" I guess. > Nevertheless, you could try replacing the TransferText routine with a > simple "Open File and read in line by line" routine. I'm sure you know > how to this. It may even be faster than TransferText. > /gustav >> I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >> archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >> I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >> nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >> stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >> zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >> compatible with a table in the database structure) to import >> repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves >> beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily >> imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and >> starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >> external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >> of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this >> is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. >> After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >> until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >> database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >> because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >> can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >> can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >> of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >> see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >> replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >> machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >> *when* it breaks vary slightly. >> I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >> but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >> Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? >> Charlotte Foust >> Infostat Systems, Inc. From lytlenj at yahoo.com Mon Aug 9 12:18:02 2004 From: lytlenj at yahoo.com (Nancy Lytle) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Create a Search In-Reply-To: <013801c47e27$6f676d50$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040809171802.90117.qmail@web53905.mail.yahoo.com> >From the site (see below) it says you can just download and import into a 2000 db, if DAO is referenced or you can upgrade it to 2000 first. Nancy >From the site http://www.mile50.com/access/index.htm : >>>This version can be upgraded to Access 2000, or it can be imported directly into an existing Access 2000 database if it has a reference to DAO. (follow the steps listed in the caution below to set a DAO reference, but don't prioritize DAO above ADO.) Note that new Access 2000 databases DO NOT have the DAO reference by default. You must manually add the reference if you want RFil to work in your new Access 2000 database. Finally, RFil will work in Access 2000 .mdb/.mde/.mda files only - current versions do not work for .adp/.ade files. <<<<< --- Arthur Fuller wrote: > I googled and got there, but the download part is > confusing. I want the > Access 2000/+ version. The only link on that page > that I can see points > to rfil97, not anything higher. Am I supposed to > download that and > upgrade it? > > Could be my eyes, which are fading :) > > TIA, > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Nancy Lytle > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:50 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Create a Search > > > Susan, did you check out Steve Nyberg's Rfil report > filtering, you can add it to the database and it > will > let them filter any report based on any field it > contains. They can also save the filter for later > use. > > Nancy Lytle > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 13:06:30 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:06:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: I was already using DoEvents. We have simple deskjets in the office, and I see the same behavior on machines with no printer at all. Remember, we aren't printing anything and there aren't any reports involved, we're just importing files and logging information to tables or to text files. I haven't had a chance to review Stuart's suggestions yet. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Hi Charlotte I understand that. That leaves you with the DoEvent trick from Drew and the tip on monitoring threads from Stuart ... Also, did you check on the printer driver? I know this is a long shot but I've seen so many problems related to these at the latest, indeed for drivers for the modern mega-copy-printer-scan beasts. Would you keep us posted on progress solving this issue? /gustav > Unfortunately, I would have to rewrite the application to do that, > Gustav. If I were importing a single file, it might be OK, but we are > unzipping a file that may contain text files exported from any group > of the data tables in our application. We have to loop through the > individual tables, see if a text file for that table has been > included, and import the data appropriately into a temporary table > where any type or units conversion and internationalization issues can > be handled before moving the data into the main tables. We also have > to deal with files that might have been created by an earlier version > of our application, which means they may require special temporary > tables to match the shape used in that earlier version. You get the > idea. It would be a nightmare to build and maintain direct file I/O > routines in code, complete with special handling. I could do it, but > my bosses would scream for a week ... And then catch their breath and > start over again. :-{ > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > Hi Charlotte > The fail on TransferText is probably only a sympton not the error. Or > maybe it is; it uses the "external ISAM" I guess. > Nevertheless, you could try replacing the TransferText routine with a > simple "Open File and read in line by line" routine. I'm sure you know > how to this. It may even be faster than TransferText. > /gustav >> I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >> archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >> I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >> nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >> stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >> zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >> compatible with a table in the database structure) to import >> repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves >> beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily >> imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and >> starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >> external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >> of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this >> is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. >> After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >> until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >> database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >> because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >> can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >> can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >> of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >> see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >> replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >> machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >> *when* it breaks vary slightly. >> I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >> but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >> Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? >> Charlotte Foust >> Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 9 14:35:19 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 12:35:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 References: Message-ID: <4117D1F7.90103@shaw.ca> If you have some sort of internal Access indexing going wonky after 200 or around 256 file imports, how about using Michael Kaplan's TSI Soon dll to switch out of the database compact it and return. Are you using the FindFirstChangeNotification API a la http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/watchedfolder.htm Charlotte Foust wrote: >Thanks, but I'm not using Office 2003. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: MG [mailto:mgauk at btconnect.com] >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:16 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Cc: Steve White >Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > > >There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may >hold some answers for you. Max Sherman > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: Steve White >Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > >I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip >file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible >with a table in the database >structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the >thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has >happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind >and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is >within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. > >After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >*when* it breaks vary slightly. > >I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but >I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has >anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > >Charlotte Foust >Infostat Systems, Inc. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 15:08:26 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:08:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: What we're doing is checking a folder at intervals for files. There could be a single file or multiples. If we can copy them to another folder, then they have been completely written. We do NOT use the standard method of trying to get a handle because that can cause the file to be truncated instead of fully written. We create an array of the file names we were able to copy and delete those in the monitored folder. Any that arrive while we're processing the current group will be picked up in the next cycle. I'm using Shell to pass information to a Restart.mdb which thus knows what app to restart and the registry key to use for status flags. The two apps semaphore back and forth using the registry and if either of them fails to signal, the process ends. In the restart app, I capture the window handle of the primary app and use a FindWindowText call to make sure that window actually gets closed before I use shell to restart it. Restart works fine as it is. The problem isn't with that, it's with TransferText in the primary application. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 If you have some sort of internal Access indexing going wonky after 200 or around 256 file imports, how about using Michael Kaplan's TSI Soon dll to switch out of the database compact it and return. Are you using the FindFirstChangeNotification API a la http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/watchedfolder.htm Charlotte Foust wrote: >Thanks, but I'm not using Office 2003. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: MG [mailto:mgauk at btconnect.com] >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:16 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Cc: Steve White >Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > > >There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may >hold some answers for you. Max Sherman > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: Steve White >Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > >I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >compatible with a table in the database >structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the >thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has >happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind >and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is >within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. > >After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >*when* it breaks vary slightly. > >I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > >Charlotte Foust >Infostat Systems, Inc. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Aug 9 15:33:03 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:33:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: <30250956.1092082442198.JavaMail.root@sniper3.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000701c47e50$12253bd0$de1811d8@danwaters> Charlotte, I use File System Objects a fair amount, and I can envision using that object model to do what you're describing here. It's fairly simple, no registry keys to work with, TransferText would not be needed, and you'd only need a single application. If you want the help file, search for Script56.chm. The file needed on your PC is scrrun.dll, which is installed by several different MS apps, including Access. You should set a reference to Microsoft Scripting to get early binding. Hope this helps! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 What we're doing is checking a folder at intervals for files. There could be a single file or multiples. If we can copy them to another folder, then they have been completely written. We do NOT use the standard method of trying to get a handle because that can cause the file to be truncated instead of fully written. We create an array of the file names we were able to copy and delete those in the monitored folder. Any that arrive while we're processing the current group will be picked up in the next cycle. I'm using Shell to pass information to a Restart.mdb which thus knows what app to restart and the registry key to use for status flags. The two apps semaphore back and forth using the registry and if either of them fails to signal, the process ends. In the restart app, I capture the window handle of the primary app and use a FindWindowText call to make sure that window actually gets closed before I use shell to restart it. Restart works fine as it is. The problem isn't with that, it's with TransferText in the primary application. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 If you have some sort of internal Access indexing going wonky after 200 or around 256 file imports, how about using Michael Kaplan's TSI Soon dll to switch out of the database compact it and return. Are you using the FindFirstChangeNotification API a la http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/watchedfolder.htm Charlotte Foust wrote: >Thanks, but I'm not using Office 2003. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: MG [mailto:mgauk at btconnect.com] >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:16 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Cc: Steve White >Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > > >There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may >hold some answers for you. Max Sherman > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: Steve White >Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > >I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >compatible with a table in the database >structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the >thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has >happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind >and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is >within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. > >After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >*when* it breaks vary slightly. > >I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > >Charlotte Foust >Infostat Systems, Inc. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 16:24:00 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:24:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: That isn't an option for me, Dan, but thanks for the suggestion. I have to make it work in the situation I described, and it has to work in a commercial application where we have no idea what else the machine or network may have installed/enabled. For that reason, we try to keep everything within Access as much as possible. I am precluded from using ADO because we don't want to deal with the issues of making sure the right version of MDAC is installed, and setting a reference to the scripting library is out of the question because handling reference problems is less than user-friendly for runtime apps. We are not doing especially simple imports, and we're doing other stuff, including updating other parts of the data file to let its parent application know that imports have occurred. The interaction between the applications is a necessary complication. Just so you all know, this app will eventually be rewritten in VB.Net, but for now it stays in AXP. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Charlotte, I use File System Objects a fair amount, and I can envision using that object model to do what you're describing here. It's fairly simple, no registry keys to work with, TransferText would not be needed, and you'd only need a single application. If you want the help file, search for Script56.chm. The file needed on your PC is scrrun.dll, which is installed by several different MS apps, including Access. You should set a reference to Microsoft Scripting to get early binding. Hope this helps! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 What we're doing is checking a folder at intervals for files. There could be a single file or multiples. If we can copy them to another folder, then they have been completely written. We do NOT use the standard method of trying to get a handle because that can cause the file to be truncated instead of fully written. We create an array of the file names we were able to copy and delete those in the monitored folder. Any that arrive while we're processing the current group will be picked up in the next cycle. I'm using Shell to pass information to a Restart.mdb which thus knows what app to restart and the registry key to use for status flags. The two apps semaphore back and forth using the registry and if either of them fails to signal, the process ends. In the restart app, I capture the window handle of the primary app and use a FindWindowText call to make sure that window actually gets closed before I use shell to restart it. Restart works fine as it is. The problem isn't with that, it's with TransferText in the primary application. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 If you have some sort of internal Access indexing going wonky after 200 or around 256 file imports, how about using Michael Kaplan's TSI Soon dll to switch out of the database compact it and return. Are you using the FindFirstChangeNotification API a la http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/watchedfolder.htm Charlotte Foust wrote: >Thanks, but I'm not using Office 2003. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: MG [mailto:mgauk at btconnect.com] >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:16 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Cc: Steve White >Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > > >There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may >hold some answers for you. Max Sherman > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: Steve White >Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > >I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >compatible with a table in the database >structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the >thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has >happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind >and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is >within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. > >After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >*when* it breaks vary slightly. > >I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > >Charlotte Foust >Infostat Systems, Inc. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Aug 9 16:57:39 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:57:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: <16524150.1092087035078.JavaMail.root@sniper7.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <001101c47e5b$e39ae740$de1811d8@danwaters> Well . . . FSO doesn't need ADO. Since this is a commercial app, you probably have an installer package which could ensure that scrrun.dll is there. FSO can also take the full path, base name, or extensions of files and save them to tables, as well as move/copy/delete files and folders. If both your apps are Access, then FSO can work with either or both. Actually, I believe that FSO can be used/referenced by any VB/VBA application, or VB.Net. I would still recommend looking over what FSO can do. If your primary objective is moving/copying/deleting files and/or folders and recording the information related to doing that, FSO could really be a good (and easy) methodology. FSO was specifically designed to make these tasks easier. I won't bug you anymore - and I still wish you luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 That isn't an option for me, Dan, but thanks for the suggestion. I have to make it work in the situation I described, and it has to work in a commercial application where we have no idea what else the machine or network may have installed/enabled. For that reason, we try to keep everything within Access as much as possible. I am precluded from using ADO because we don't want to deal with the issues of making sure the right version of MDAC is installed, and setting a reference to the scripting library is out of the question because handling reference problems is less than user-friendly for runtime apps. We are not doing especially simple imports, and we're doing other stuff, including updating other parts of the data file to let its parent application know that imports have occurred. The interaction between the applications is a necessary complication. Just so you all know, this app will eventually be rewritten in VB.Net, but for now it stays in AXP. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Charlotte, I use File System Objects a fair amount, and I can envision using that object model to do what you're describing here. It's fairly simple, no registry keys to work with, TransferText would not be needed, and you'd only need a single application. If you want the help file, search for Script56.chm. The file needed on your PC is scrrun.dll, which is installed by several different MS apps, including Access. You should set a reference to Microsoft Scripting to get early binding. Hope this helps! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 What we're doing is checking a folder at intervals for files. There could be a single file or multiples. If we can copy them to another folder, then they have been completely written. We do NOT use the standard method of trying to get a handle because that can cause the file to be truncated instead of fully written. We create an array of the file names we were able to copy and delete those in the monitored folder. Any that arrive while we're processing the current group will be picked up in the next cycle. I'm using Shell to pass information to a Restart.mdb which thus knows what app to restart and the registry key to use for status flags. The two apps semaphore back and forth using the registry and if either of them fails to signal, the process ends. In the restart app, I capture the window handle of the primary app and use a FindWindowText call to make sure that window actually gets closed before I use shell to restart it. Restart works fine as it is. The problem isn't with that, it's with TransferText in the primary application. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 If you have some sort of internal Access indexing going wonky after 200 or around 256 file imports, how about using Michael Kaplan's TSI Soon dll to switch out of the database compact it and return. Are you using the FindFirstChangeNotification API a la http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/watchedfolder.htm Charlotte Foust wrote: >Thanks, but I'm not using Office 2003. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: MG [mailto:mgauk at btconnect.com] >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:16 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Cc: Steve White >Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > > >There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may >hold some answers for you. Max Sherman > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: Steve White >Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > >I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >compatible with a table in the database >structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the >thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has >happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind >and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is >within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. > >After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >*when* it breaks vary slightly. > >I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > >Charlotte Foust >Infostat Systems, Inc. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 17:25:05 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:25:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: This app piggybacks on one of our standard apps. I do not have the liberty of rewriting it, even if it would make it better. I can only make it work. Sorry if I seem grouchy. I appreciate the suggestions everyone is making. I just don't have the freedom to implement them. :-{ I realize that FSO has nothing to do with ADO, that was merely an example of the limitations I have to observe. We do use FSO for some file handling, but not for this because it isn't just importing and logging the files, which would be straightforward. We aren't merely saving files to tables, we are unzipping a file containing changed records for any of a number of tables, importing them one table at a time through IMEX specs into matching temp tables, handling internationalization issues, and validating information among those tables and the main data tables prior to moving the related records into the main tables. Even the order in which the data files are imported is critical and is determined by a value for each table in the front end app. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 1:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Well . . . FSO doesn't need ADO. Since this is a commercial app, you probably have an installer package which could ensure that scrrun.dll is there. FSO can also take the full path, base name, or extensions of files and save them to tables, as well as move/copy/delete files and folders. If both your apps are Access, then FSO can work with either or both. Actually, I believe that FSO can be used/referenced by any VB/VBA application, or VB.Net. I would still recommend looking over what FSO can do. If your primary objective is moving/copying/deleting files and/or folders and recording the information related to doing that, FSO could really be a good (and easy) methodology. FSO was specifically designed to make these tasks easier. I won't bug you anymore - and I still wish you luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 That isn't an option for me, Dan, but thanks for the suggestion. I have to make it work in the situation I described, and it has to work in a commercial application where we have no idea what else the machine or network may have installed/enabled. For that reason, we try to keep everything within Access as much as possible. I am precluded from using ADO because we don't want to deal with the issues of making sure the right version of MDAC is installed, and setting a reference to the scripting library is out of the question because handling reference problems is less than user-friendly for runtime apps. We are not doing especially simple imports, and we're doing other stuff, including updating other parts of the data file to let its parent application know that imports have occurred. The interaction between the applications is a necessary complication. Just so you all know, this app will eventually be rewritten in VB.Net, but for now it stays in AXP. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Charlotte, I use File System Objects a fair amount, and I can envision using that object model to do what you're describing here. It's fairly simple, no registry keys to work with, TransferText would not be needed, and you'd only need a single application. If you want the help file, search for Script56.chm. The file needed on your PC is scrrun.dll, which is installed by several different MS apps, including Access. You should set a reference to Microsoft Scripting to get early binding. Hope this helps! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 What we're doing is checking a folder at intervals for files. There could be a single file or multiples. If we can copy them to another folder, then they have been completely written. We do NOT use the standard method of trying to get a handle because that can cause the file to be truncated instead of fully written. We create an array of the file names we were able to copy and delete those in the monitored folder. Any that arrive while we're processing the current group will be picked up in the next cycle. I'm using Shell to pass information to a Restart.mdb which thus knows what app to restart and the registry key to use for status flags. The two apps semaphore back and forth using the registry and if either of them fails to signal, the process ends. In the restart app, I capture the window handle of the primary app and use a FindWindowText call to make sure that window actually gets closed before I use shell to restart it. Restart works fine as it is. The problem isn't with that, it's with TransferText in the primary application. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 If you have some sort of internal Access indexing going wonky after 200 or around 256 file imports, how about using Michael Kaplan's TSI Soon dll to switch out of the database compact it and return. Are you using the FindFirstChangeNotification API a la http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/watchedfolder.htm Charlotte Foust wrote: >Thanks, but I'm not using Office 2003. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: MG [mailto:mgauk at btconnect.com] >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:16 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Cc: Steve White >Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > > >There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may >hold some answers for you. Max Sherman > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: Steve White >Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > >I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >compatible with a table in the database >structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the >thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has >happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind >and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is >within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. > >After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >*when* it breaks vary slightly. > >I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > >Charlotte Foust >Infostat Systems, Inc. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Aug 9 18:14:35 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:14:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <411891FB.4660.166D0105@lexacorp.com.pg> On 9 Aug 2004 at 9:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another > folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into temporary > tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved from the > temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and the next > check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer interval has > elapsed. > If you are filling and clearing temporary tables hundreds of times, are you sure it's not a case of the database bloating - either until it hits the 2GB barrier or the workstation runs out of space on the working drive? -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Aug 9 18:23:18 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:23:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <012e01c47e1c$855571d0$6601a8c0@rock> References: <01c501c47dca$4818ff00$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <41189406.3435.1674FBFD@lexacorp.com.pg> On 9 Aug 2004 at 10:24, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > replace([ColumnOfInterest],"-","") > > Substitute the actual column name for [ColumnOfInterest]. Run the query > and you're done. > Sorry Arthur, but it doesn't work like that - you just get an error saying "undefined function replace" That's why I wrote the function myReplace() -- Stuart From CMackin at Quiznos.com Mon Aug 9 18:37:30 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:37:30 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Message-ID: Replace() is only in Access 2000 and beyond, I'm using XP and can use the syntax described by Arthur without issue. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 5:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. On 9 Aug 2004 at 10:24, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > replace([ColumnOfInterest],"-","") > > Substitute the actual column name for [ColumnOfInterest]. Run the query > and you're done. > Sorry Arthur, but it doesn't work like that - you just get an error saying "undefined function replace" That's why I wrote the function myReplace() -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Aug 9 18:49:03 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:49:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED195@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: Roz: Good for you. Developers need to know their place. The only thing that is more arrogant than one developer is two developers. Who's paying the bills anyway. :-) .... OK; so I could not resist to pull a few chains. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 8:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Thanks to everyone who responded. Seems I threw a stone in the pond. :) I guess I should have explained the situation more clearly (I was in a bit of a rush). The 'details' are both objects and rows in a table. They are objects as far as the front end is concerned but generated on the fly according to definitions held in a table. They are part of a 3rd party system which is written in Informix and over which I have no back-end control. The table is set up as follows: CODE TEXT DATE MARKER VALUE MANDATORY Y/N ...and with a few other bits of info. There is no facility to autonumber the 'details' although the code does have to be unique. When creating a new code you can see the existing codes so you could potentially just pick the next number. I can see the point about autonumber PKs and yes, strictly speaking the code field is the PK on this table. My usual approach, when creating a lookup for example, is that I would use an autonumber, plus a 'friendly' code, plus the full description. When creating joins you can use the autonumber, when running reports & so forth (we run an awful lot of one-off reports) you can use the friendly code. I take the point about not stuffing a load of information into a single code, and would ideally set up several category columns. Unfortunately I don't have the option. The real problem is that anyone developing in this system has to work with the codes. There are several places in the bespoke development environment where you can see the code but not the description. We have inherited a mixture of meaningful codes and numeric codes from earlier development projects and we find the numeric ones almost impossible to remember, thus slowing us down while we go hunt out the correct code. There are several thousand 'details' in the system. Anyway, having read all your input and discussed this with my team I decided to impose my world view on the contractor >.< I hope y'all won't hate me for being one of those nasty clients :( Roz -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: 04 August 2004 19:01 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? What do you mean by 'details'? If you are referring to data within the tables, then you should really split things into separate fields. If a record is for a 'current phase' of development, then you create a phase of development field. If you are talking about object names.....I would go with your approach. My personal opinion of naming conventions is that you should use what makes sense to you, and the system you are working on. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 7:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? << File: ATT04991.txt >> << File: ATT04992.txt >> Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Aug 9 18:53:48 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:53:48 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <41189B2C.6196.1690EA80@lexacorp.com.pg> On 9 Aug 2004 at 17:37, Mackin, Christopher wrote: > Replace() is only in Access 2000 and beyond, I'm using XP and can use the syntax described by Arthur without issue. > Hmmm, interesting. Although Replace() is a function in A2K, it doesn't work in an A2K query. -- Stuart From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 18:54:36 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:54:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: No, I've checked that. It takes over 80,000 imports to make the db get up to 1.5 Gb without any compact on close (tested it). We do a compact on close to compact the file when it is shutdown and restarted. The restart app keeps checking to make sure the window has completely closed before it tries to restart the application in order to handle the compact on close delay. In the test situation, we're overwriting the same data repeatedly to the same folder, and the temp files are being deleted after import, so the space should be available for reuse. I have seen no indication that memory use is spiking or that is is even approaching the limits. The free space on the drive doesn't appear to be suffering, nor does the available resouces for other apps. Between restarts, the database bloats up to 50MB to 150MB, depending on how many zip files we use in the test. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 On 9 Aug 2004 at 9:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another > folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into > temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved > from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and > the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer > interval has elapsed. > If you are filling and clearing temporary tables hundreds of times, are you sure it's not a case of the database bloating - either until it hits the 2GB barrier or the workstation runs out of space on the working drive? -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 18:57:36 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:57:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Message-ID: No, that's one of the shortcomings of Access 2000. It works in queries in XP. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. On 9 Aug 2004 at 17:37, Mackin, Christopher wrote: > Replace() is only in Access 2000 and beyond, I'm using XP and can use > the syntax described by Arthur without issue. > Hmmm, interesting. Although Replace() is a function in A2K, it doesn't work in an A2K query. -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Aug 9 19:19:38 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 20:19:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE4C@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <000e01c47e6f$bce65da0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> LOL, yep, it generally does go back to "I'm old and set in my ways and that's the way I want to do it". Believe me, I use that a lot these days. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions We should definitely eschew obfuscation! The main reason I using naming conventions is I hate running across old unreadable code and realizing I was the idiot who wrote it :-(. On the other hand, the only way I will give up my x, y and i counters is when they pry them from my cold, dead hands . These are my last links with days of old when real men programmed in assembler, Fortran was cutting edge, etc., etc. This recalls a discussion sometime ago when one of our younger cohorts asked what was wrong with generating an error to test for a condition in code such as On Error Resume Next Set appExcel = GetObject(, "Excel.Application") Excel_is_running = (Err.Number = 0) The answer is nothing is wrong but I shuttered nonetheless. I avoid code like that and I guess it goes back to the FORTRAN days when one itty bitty error would generate pages of error codes . Hey, we can't deny our roots. If you want my rationalization a) my loops are short enough that the meaning of the counter is intrinsically obvious to the casual observer and b) I find array(x,y) easier to follow and read than array(somehumongousmultidimensionalname,yetanotherincrediblyingenious name) in fun, Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Aug 9 19:21:55 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 20:21:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FED1B@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <000f01c47e70$0b4c6750$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Well, if that is the ONLY place the I is used then probably not. If down in the following code I is used 47 times then yea, probably. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, Magic (unexplained) numbers are always problematic. But if: i = 1 to lngRecordCount... Should we still need to expand on i? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Aug 9 19:22:44 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 20:22:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c47e70$2b40a3f0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Shhhhhhh! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What, JC agreeing with me?? Has anyone checked the temperature in Hell lately? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 9 20:38:41 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:38:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040810013855.OHTA1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 9 20:40:27 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:40:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <000e01c47e6f$bce65da0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20040810014027.OIKQ1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> JC, we're not interested in your fatherly advice... Just your developer expertise. ;) Susan H. LOL, yep, it generally does go back to "I'm old and set in my ways and that's the way I want to do it". Believe me, I use that a lot these days. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Aug 9 20:55:02 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:55:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <20040810014027.OIKQ1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000101c47e7d$109d1bc0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> >JC, we're not interested in your fatherly advice... Just your developer expertise. ;) So... I really am useless then! 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions JC, we're not interested in your fatherly advice... Just your developer expertise. ;) Susan H. LOL, yep, it generally does go back to "I'm old and set in my ways and that's the way I want to do it". Believe me, I use that a lot these days. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Mon Aug 9 21:31:34 2004 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:31:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Scrolling in Code Window!! Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D01011AB7@ddi-01.DDI.local> Julie, Look at http://www.mvps.org/btmtz/treeview/ TVDragDrop is the VB sample project you want, though there is heaps Of other good bits here as well. Cheers Michael M Hi group, This is something that will work in the code window, but what about scrolling on a form? Can I use this on an Access form to scroll in a tree view control when I want to drag and drop from the top of one node to the top of another node. The second node is below the window, and when I try to drop my item, moving my mouse down the form, I cannot go beyond the existing window. Cannot find anything in the knowledge base that relates to this issue. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 10 04:24:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:24:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1407970841.20040810112409@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte OK. Then I have another suggestion which is working successfully for me. If you are not creating temp queries and the like, write-protect the application file. At the same time that eliminates any need for compacting etc. If you are importing the text files into the app itself, move those tables to an external, temp base. You don't even need to compact that as you can create it from scratch when needed (at launch of the app and/or after a finished import, prior to the next). /gustav > I was already using DoEvents. We have simple deskjets in the office, > and I see the same behavior on machines with no printer at all. > Remember, we aren't printing anything and there aren't any reports > involved, we're just importing files and logging information to tables > or to text files. > I haven't had a chance to review Stuart's suggestions yet. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:15 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > Hi Charlotte > I understand that. > That leaves you with the DoEvent trick from Drew and the tip on > monitoring threads from Stuart ... > Also, did you check on the printer driver? I know this is a long shot > but I've seen so many problems related to these at the latest, indeed > for drivers for the modern mega-copy-printer-scan beasts. > Would you keep us posted on progress solving this issue? > /gustav >> Unfortunately, I would have to rewrite the application to do that, >> Gustav. If I were importing a single file, it might be OK, but we are >> unzipping a file that may contain text files exported from any group >> of the data tables in our application. We have to loop through the >> individual tables, see if a text file for that table has been >> included, and import the data appropriately into a temporary table >> where any type or units conversion and internationalization issues can >> be handled before moving the data into the main tables. We also have >> to deal with files that might have been created by an earlier version >> of our application, which means they may require special temporary >> tables to match the shape used in that earlier version. You get the >> idea. It would be a nightmare to build and maintain direct file I/O >> routines in code, complete with special handling. I could do it, but >> my bosses would scream for a week ... And then catch their breath and >> start over again. :-{ >> Charlotte Foust >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:51 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 >> Hi Charlotte >> The fail on TransferText is probably only a sympton not the error. Or >> maybe it is; it uses the "external ISAM" I guess. >> Nevertheless, you could try replacing the TransferText routine with a >> simple "Open File and read in line by line" routine. I'm sure you know >> how to this. It may even be faster than TransferText. >> /gustav >>> I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >>> archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >>> I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >>> nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >>> stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >>> zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >>> compatible with a table in the database structure) to import >>> repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves >>> beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily >>> imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and >>> starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >>> external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >>> of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this >>> is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. >>> After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >>> until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >>> database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >>> because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >>> can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >>> can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >>> of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >>> see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >>> replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >>> machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >>> *when* it breaks vary slightly. >>> I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >>> but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >>> Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? >>> Charlotte Foust >>> Infostat Systems, Inc. From marcus at tsstech.com Tue Aug 10 06:11:37 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 07:11:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue Aug 10 06:21:02 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 07:21:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I forget who mentioned something like this... If I < 90 Then 'some code here End If 'I but I SOMETIMES do the following in complex code... If intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Then 'some code here End If 'intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Anyone else do this? I usually just break up the complex code into functions/procedures. Scott Marcus From michael.broesdorf at web.de Tue Aug 10 06:44:16 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:44:16 +0200 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yep, I do that in complex, multi-level if-structures. Michael -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Scott Marcus Gesendet: Dienstag, 10. August 2004 13:21 An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Betreff: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I forget who mentioned something like this... If I < 90 Then 'some code here End If 'I but I SOMETIMES do the following in complex code... If intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Then 'some code here End If 'intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Anyone else do this? I usually just break up the complex code into functions/procedures. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 10 10:30:22 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:30:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Yep. I do it, and my boss hates it, although the other developers appreciate it. My boss feels that that extra green text makes the code *hard* to read and is unnecessary is short routines. My feeling is that I never know what might get inserted into the middle and it's easier to keep track if you comment the code when you write it. I had an instructor who insisted on this kind of commenting even for declarations and at the end of a function or sub. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I forget who mentioned something like this... If I < 90 Then 'some code here End If 'I but I SOMETIMES do the following in complex code... If intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Then 'some code here End If 'intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Anyone else do this? I usually just break up the complex code into functions/procedures. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DElam at jenkens.com Tue Aug 10 12:43:00 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:43:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485315@natexch.jenkens.com> I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. Debbie - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From kens.programming at verizon.net Tue Aug 10 12:51:04 2004 From: kens.programming at verizon.net (Ken Stoker) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:51:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report In-Reply-To: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485315@natexch.jenkens.com> Message-ID: <20040810174941.KCJP14580.out011.verizon.net@enterprise> Debbie, Do you have any other objects like lines that are hard to see but extend beyond the margins you want to shrink to? I have often tried to do this cannibalism at time myself and run into the same frustrating situation until I realize I have a line that needs to be shrunk as well. Ken -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Aug 10 12:57:24 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:57:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report In-Reply-To: <31556299.1092160102321.JavaMail.root@sniper2.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <001f01c47f03$7e23c780$de1811d8@danwaters> One thing that occasionally gets me is a line that is 'hidden' next to one of the gray section dividers. If you drag your cursor across these dividers, you'll select the line, then you can move it. Try selecting all objects (Ctrl+A) to see if any objects are selected at the right edge of the report. If any have the same color as the background of your report (probably white) then you'll know they are there. Try making a copy of your reports, then select all objects (ctrl+A), then delete all the objects. If you can now resize your report, then one of the objects was the problem. Also, try checking Page Setup to see what page width you've set up. HTH! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. Debbie - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DElam at jenkens.com Tue Aug 10 12:59:59 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:59:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485316@natexch.jenkens.com> I have 4 lines the width of the report and cannot find more. I have print previewed the report and do not see any lines extending into the area I am trying to shrink. I have also dragged my pointer across the blank area to see if a line would select. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Ken Stoker [mailto:kens.programming at verizon.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report Debbie, Do you have any other objects like lines that are hard to see but extend beyond the margins you want to shrink to? I have often tried to do this cannibalism at time myself and run into the same frustrating situation until I realize I have a line that needs to be shrunk as well. Ken -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 10 13:04:16 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 20:04:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report In-Reply-To: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485316@natexch.jenkens.com> References: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485316@natexch.jenkens.com> Message-ID: <6639177193.20040810200416@cactus.dk> Hi Debbie Did you double check the paper/page settings, colums etc.? /gustav > I have 4 lines the width of the report and cannot find more. I have print > previewed the report and do not see any lines extending into the area I am > trying to shrink. I have also dragged my pointer across the blank area to > see if a line would select. > Debbie --- > Do you have any other objects like lines that are hard to see but extend > beyond the margins you want to shrink to? I have often tried to do this > cannibalism at time myself and run into the same frustrating situation until > I realize I have a line that needs to be shrunk as well. > Ken > I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many > attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a > portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not > resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of > the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. > Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have > dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but > have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different > printers and that has not stopped the problem. From DElam at jenkens.com Tue Aug 10 13:09:15 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:09:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485317@natexch.jenkens.com> Well the drag I already tried, but the ctrl-A and deleting all objects broke the spell. I guess I will see if I can find the object again. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report One thing that occasionally gets me is a line that is 'hidden' next to one of the gray section dividers. If you drag your cursor across these dividers, you'll select the line, then you can move it. Try selecting all objects (Ctrl+A) to see if any objects are selected at the right edge of the report. If any have the same color as the background of your report (probably white) then you'll know they are there. Try making a copy of your reports, then select all objects (ctrl+A), then delete all the objects. If you can now resize your report, then one of the objects was the problem. Also, try checking Page Setup to see what page width you've set up. HTH! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. Debbie - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Aug 10 13:30:06 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:30:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report In-Reply-To: <4965841.1092161866346.JavaMail.root@sniper12.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000201c47f08$0f755470$de1811d8@danwaters> Great! Next, make another report copy and delete all the objects you can see. Then go to the Report Design toolbar where on the left side you can see the word Report. Click on the drop-down list. This will give you a list of all the objects that remain in the report. From the list you can click on each one to select it. Select those objects one by one and you'll find the offender! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report Well the drag I already tried, but the ctrl-A and deleting all objects broke the spell. I guess I will see if I can find the object again. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report One thing that occasionally gets me is a line that is 'hidden' next to one of the gray section dividers. If you drag your cursor across these dividers, you'll select the line, then you can move it. Try selecting all objects (Ctrl+A) to see if any objects are selected at the right edge of the report. If any have the same color as the background of your report (probably white) then you'll know they are there. Try making a copy of your reports, then select all objects (ctrl+A), then delete all the objects. If you can now resize your report, then one of the objects was the problem. Also, try checking Page Setup to see what page width you've set up. HTH! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. Debbie - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DElam at jenkens.com Tue Aug 10 13:38:39 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:38:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485318@natexch.jenkens.com> Found it! Still can't see the blasted thing, but selecting all then unselecting the visible objects one at a time left line44 which I deleted. I am still not sure where it is, but it is gone. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report Great! Next, make another report copy and delete all the objects you can see. Then go to the Report Design toolbar where on the left side you can see the word Report. Click on the drop-down list. This will give you a list of all the objects that remain in the report. From the list you can click on each one to select it. Select those objects one by one and you'll find the offender! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report Well the drag I already tried, but the ctrl-A and deleting all objects broke the spell. I guess I will see if I can find the object again. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report One thing that occasionally gets me is a line that is 'hidden' next to one of the gray section dividers. If you drag your cursor across these dividers, you'll select the line, then you can move it. Try selecting all objects (Ctrl+A) to see if any objects are selected at the right edge of the report. If any have the same color as the background of your report (probably white) then you'll know they are there. Try making a copy of your reports, then select all objects (ctrl+A), then delete all the objects. If you can now resize your report, then one of the objects was the problem. Also, try checking Page Setup to see what page width you've set up. HTH! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. Debbie - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Aug 10 14:04:22 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:04:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report In-Reply-To: <13437647.1092163452376.JavaMail.root@sniper10.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000c01c47f0c$d92481c0$de1811d8@danwaters> OK - go back to your original report and select line44. Then push the properties button. Change the line width to 4 pt, and maybe give it a red color (255). Also check the length to see if it's long enough to be seen. Now you'll see where it was. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report Found it! Still can't see the blasted thing, but selecting all then unselecting the visible objects one at a time left line44 which I deleted. I am still not sure where it is, but it is gone. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report Great! Next, make another report copy and delete all the objects you can see. Then go to the Report Design toolbar where on the left side you can see the word Report. Click on the drop-down list. This will give you a list of all the objects that remain in the report. From the list you can click on each one to select it. Select those objects one by one and you'll find the offender! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report Well the drag I already tried, but the ctrl-A and deleting all objects broke the spell. I guess I will see if I can find the object again. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report One thing that occasionally gets me is a line that is 'hidden' next to one of the gray section dividers. If you drag your cursor across these dividers, you'll select the line, then you can move it. Try selecting all objects (Ctrl+A) to see if any objects are selected at the right edge of the report. If any have the same color as the background of your report (probably white) then you'll know they are there. Try making a copy of your reports, then select all objects (ctrl+A), then delete all the objects. If you can now resize your report, then one of the objects was the problem. Also, try checking Page Setup to see what page width you've set up. HTH! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. Debbie - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Tue Aug 10 14:01:47 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:01:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE59@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Do you always dim your variables at the top of the routines? I got in that habit sometime ago but it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve the "what type is it" issue. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Yep. I do it, and my boss hates it, although the other developers appreciate it. My boss feels that that extra green text makes the code *hard* to read and is unnecessary is short routines. My feeling is that I never know what might get inserted into the middle and it's easier to keep track if you comment the code when you write it. I had an instructor who insisted on this kind of commenting even for declarations and at the end of a function or sub. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I forget who mentioned something like this... If I < 90 Then 'some code here End If 'I but I SOMETIMES do the following in complex code... If intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Then 'some code here End If 'intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Anyone else do this? I usually just break up the complex code into functions/procedures. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Tue Aug 10 14:36:19 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:36:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDAA@DISABILITYINS01> >it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve the "what type is it" It would of course (for that area of the code). It's considered bad practice to dim variables in the middle of code for obvious reasons. Plus if the code that I is used in is a page long, you are right back to "what the heck is i". I am particularly sensitive to this because a few years back I inherited the typical "database from hell" One of the central routines was a function that was literally 6 feet long when printed and laid on the floor. Of course I carved it up into functions but trying to read the original was just... well... hell. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Do you always dim your variables at the top of the routines? I got in that habit sometime ago but it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve the "what type is it" issue. Jim Hale From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 10 15:23:17 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:23:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I never dim variables anywhere except at the top of a routine. Then I always know where to look to see all the variables and constants declared in that routine. I hate having to track them down in the code ... Especially if someone falls into the dim i as integer pit! Looking for variables declared in the body of code is like looking for a needle in a haystack, and you're much more likely to screw up your code by moving something that uses that variable to before the declaration if you declare it in the body of the routine. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Do you always dim your variables at the top of the routines? I got in that habit sometime ago but it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve the "what type is it" issue. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Yep. I do it, and my boss hates it, although the other developers appreciate it. My boss feels that that extra green text makes the code *hard* to read and is unnecessary is short routines. My feeling is that I never know what might get inserted into the middle and it's easier to keep track if you comment the code when you write it. I had an instructor who insisted on this kind of commenting even for declarations and at the end of a function or sub. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I forget who mentioned something like this... If I < 90 Then 'some code here End If 'I but I SOMETIMES do the following in complex code... If intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Then 'some code here End If 'intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Anyone else do this? I usually just break up the complex code into functions/procedures. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 10 15:25:44 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:25:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: LOL! I hear that! I've never had one quite that long, but I've had some that performed all sorts of exotic calculations using i, j, k, etc., declared and populated by other calculations earlier in the routine. Oh, and don't forget the GoTos that threaded themselves throughout. :-{ Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve >the "what type is it" It would of course (for that area of the code). It's considered bad practice to dim variables in the middle of code for obvious reasons. Plus if the code that I is used in is a page long, you are right back to "what the heck is i". I am particularly sensitive to this because a few years back I inherited the typical "database from hell" One of the central routines was a function that was literally 6 feet long when printed and laid on the floor. Of course I carved it up into functions but trying to read the original was just... well... hell. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Do you always dim your variables at the top of the routines? I got in that habit sometime ago but it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve the "what type is it" issue. Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 15:52:49 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:52:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB255@main2.marlow.com> So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 15:53:51 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:53:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB256@main2.marlow.com> Very rarely use arrays anymore anyhow. I use classes and collection, a lot more meaning full, and even easier to use. You do lose a little performance though. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ouch, John...pretty harsh, but exactly right! Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... strEmployeeList(i,j) 'what does i and j stand for? strEmployeeList(intI, intJ) 'still, what does intI and intJ stand for? strEmployeeList(intEmployeeType, intEmployeeCounter) 'seems understandable to me -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? The old style coding that used I or J or K was intentionally, with malice and forethought replaced with meaningful names precisely because trying to read such code sucks bigtime. And yes, I realize that those who use I, J and K make wishy washy claims that it is actually more efficient. I have programmed in C and I can write "more efficient" code that even an experienced C programmer can't interpret. Just because you can doesn't mean you should! The whole point of a naming convention is to be able to read the name and see what it is for. Yes, I MAY be interpreted "automatically" as a counting integer (by YOU), but counting WHAT? Is it the row of a one dimension array? Or the row counter of a two dim array? or a three dim array? Or a collection? I is, you have to admit, pretty much useless in telling me anything. If I want to know, I have to go look at the dim, statement, then I have to go look at the For Next row, just to find out what I does for me. So what you are saying in your argument is that you simply don't care about those who come behind. It works for you and that when you are not maintaining the code why should you care? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 15:54:24 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:54:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB257@main2.marlow.com> Use counters all of the time....almost never use arrays anymore..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Ouch, John...pretty harsh, but exactly right! Yea. Sorry bout that. I do get a little uh... harsh sometimes. Your example hits the nail right on the head. Particularly when dealing with arrays, each dimension means something, and getting them backwards is deadly. And of course, arrays is one of the big uses for counters. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ouch, John...pretty harsh, but exactly right! Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... strEmployeeList(i,j) 'what does i and j stand for? strEmployeeList(intI, intJ) 'still, what does intI and intJ stand for? strEmployeeList(intEmployeeType, intEmployeeCounter) 'seems understandable to me -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? The old style coding that used I or J or K was intentionally, with malice and forethought replaced with meaningful names precisely because trying to read such code sucks bigtime. And yes, I realize that those who use I, J and K make wishy washy claims that it is actually more efficient. I have programmed in C and I can write "more efficient" code that even an experienced C programmer can't interpret. Just because you can doesn't mean you should! The whole point of a naming convention is to be able to read the name and see what it is for. Yes, I MAY be interpreted "automatically" as a counting integer (by YOU), but counting WHAT? Is it the row of a one dimension array? Or the row counter of a two dim array? or a three dim array? Or a collection? I is, you have to admit, pretty much useless in telling me anything. If I want to know, I have to go look at the dim, statement, then I have to go look at the For Next row, just to find out what I does for me. So what you are saying in your argument is that you simply don't care about those who come behind. It works for you and that when you are not maintaining the code why should you care? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 15:57:45 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:57:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB258@main2.marlow.com> Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 15:58:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:58:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB259@main2.marlow.com> I did, but Hell doesn't use the same naming convention as we do, so I ended up arguing with the programmers down there too! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What, JC agreeing with me?? Has anyone checked the temperature in Hell lately? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 16:00:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:00:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB25A@main2.marlow.com> Wouldn't blame you for being a 'nasty' client. In fact, you'd be thanked for being a well informed client. Can't count the number of 'clients' I've had who not only didn't know what they wanted, but didn't know what they were currently doing anyways.......go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Thanks to everyone who responded. Seems I threw a stone in the pond. :) I guess I should have explained the situation more clearly (I was in a bit of a rush). The 'details' are both objects and rows in a table. They are objects as far as the front end is concerned but generated on the fly according to definitions held in a table. They are part of a 3rd party system which is written in Informix and over which I have no back-end control. The table is set up as follows: CODE TEXT DATE MARKER VALUE MANDATORY Y/N ...and with a few other bits of info. There is no facility to autonumber the 'details' although the code does have to be unique. When creating a new code you can see the existing codes so you could potentially just pick the next number. I can see the point about autonumber PKs and yes, strictly speaking the code field is the PK on this table. My usual approach, when creating a lookup for example, is that I would use an autonumber, plus a 'friendly' code, plus the full description. When creating joins you can use the autonumber, when running reports & so forth (we run an awful lot of one-off reports) you can use the friendly code. I take the point about not stuffing a load of information into a single code, and would ideally set up several category columns. Unfortunately I don't have the option. The real problem is that anyone developing in this system has to work with the codes. There are several places in the bespoke development environment where you can see the code but not the description. We have inherited a mixture of meaningful codes and numeric codes from earlier development projects and we find the numeric ones almost impossible to remember, thus slowing us down while we go hunt out the correct code. There are several thousand 'details' in the system. Anyway, having read all your input and discussed this with my team I decided to impose my world view on the contractor >.< I hope y'all won't hate me for being one of those nasty clients :( Roz -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: 04 August 2004 19:01 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? What do you mean by 'details'? If you are referring to data within the tables, then you should really split things into separate fields. If a record is for a 'current phase' of development, then you create a phase of development field. If you are talking about object names.....I would go with your approach. My personal opinion of naming conventions is that you should use what makes sense to you, and the system you are working on. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 7:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? << File: ATT04991.txt >> << File: ATT04992.txt >> Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 16:02:26 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:02:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB25B@main2.marlow.com> Long Integers.... You know, the only time I have EVER seen a conflict between integers and long integers, is when I'm using a 16 bit API, that requires integers in it's arguments. And what exactly is the problem you raised? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions May I point out that you previously said these variables represented longs because you *always* use longs as counters. Now you're saying they're "counting integers". It seems you've demonstrated the problem I raised quite nicely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 8:49 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 16:03:15 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:03:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB25C@main2.marlow.com> I personally don't think so, but apparently there is a camp on the list that can't read code, unless you include mini help files in each variable name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, Magic (unexplained) numbers are always problematic. But if: i = 1 to lngRecordCount... Should we still need to expand on i? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. 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Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 16:07:25 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:07:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB25D@main2.marlow.com> Sorry couldn't help out more..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Drew, You also posted in Woody's Lounge, but I'll repeat some of my response here for the archives. I have DoEvents in my code, and it makes no difference. There was a Jet 4.0 issue mentioned in an MSKB article on A2k, but I haven't found anything specific for AXP. I'm assuming that this may be the culprit, since the symptoms are quite odd, and once the error occurs, it will keep occurring and continue for hundreds of recurrences. Let me clarify the situation: when I said the same file was being imported repeatedly, I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer interval has elapsed. What appears to happen is that after several hundred reiterations of this process, the data simply doesn't get imported and we get a log like this: Started at: 05:14 06-Aug-04 File successfully unzipped. Warning: Application and Export File Version Difference! Data Exported from Application Version: 4.19 Date: 17-Dec-2002 Data Imported into Application Version: 4.50 Date: 22-Apr-2004 Data updated to Temporary Tables Data successfully loaded in Temporary Tables There are no Well-related records remaining in this data import after removing all Write-protected records. Import aborted due to Unit Configuration errors in import file. Completed at: 05:14 06-Aug-04 Elapsed Time: 0 mins 1 secs The fact is, there is data in the comma-delimited text files, but it is NOT loaded into the temporary tables this time, nor at any future time until Access is restarted. Instead, you get a series of 3310 errors: "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet." The error is meaningless in context, but there it is. There is nothing wrong with the import specs, since they work after Access is restarted, but TransferText appears to break down entirely. In fact, you can't even use it from the immediate window because you get the same kind of error. That "memory leak" type of behavior echoes the reported problems with Jet 4 in A2k. Unfortunately, I can't find the reference to that MSKB article at the moment (of course), so I can't be more specific, and as I recall it was supposed to have been cured by one of the earlier Jet 4 service packs. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:17 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Okay, did a little testing on my own, with Access 97. Used the following code: Dim i Do Until i=-1 docmd.TransferText ....... i=i+1 Me.lblStatus.Caption="Importing: " & i 'DoEvents Loop Now, as is, above, the code Kicked up an 2051 error when i=11593 (It had imported 46372 records). Stopping the code, compacting the database, repairing the database, nothing would let the code start up again (without immediately kicking up that error message....which said something along the lines of a dialog box was not clicked or something.....), until I closed Access, and opened it up again, then it started right back up. Next time, it didn't error, it just hung. It sat at a record level of ~120,000 for about ten minutes, then I just killed it. No error, but it was definitely failing. Once I remove the quote before DoEvents, so that it would run, it seems to just fly, with no stopping. As I'm typing this, it's imported the records 1.5 million times and still going. Here's my theory. Jet is multi-threaded. I've had a little experience with multi-threading VB projects. One thing I know with doing that, is you have to be EXTREMELY careful when accessing a database. In fact, it is almost mandatory to force only one thread to do db transactions. If two threads try db transactions 'simultaneously', all sorts of things will happen (from just losing the thread, all the way to corrupting the database....not kidding...). The reason is that Windows isn't really paying attention to what a thread is doing when it gives time to the next one. So if two threads hit the db at the right time, it can REALLY get goofy. I'm sure the developers had that in mind when creating the TransferText method, however, they also probably didn't count on someone importing a file over and over and over, without a break. So what is probably happening, is that you are getting 'thread lock', where one or more of Jet's threads are locked, and there is nothing you can do about it, until you close Access, which will release the Jet threads. Now, I think putting in a DoEvents simply let's the VBA pause long enough to let the Jet threads finish what they need too, before being called again. Hope this helps in someway. Drew P.S. (It's now at 1.78 mill and counting....with the DoEvents....) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:49 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Cc: Steve White Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 16:12:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:12:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB25E@main2.marlow.com> A funny side not to my earlier post. I had a ton of windows open on my screen for the last few days....and about an hour ago, I started closing things. One of the items running, was that 'test' db I whipped up. It was still going. I thought that was odd, because it couldn't have ported that much information (into 97 .mdb). So I killed it. Took a look at the file size, and it was only 11 megs. I think that it was 'reporting' that it was working, but still had the same 'lock'. Can you take your code of the loop, and have it run it externally, so your code truly starts, and truly stops, before getting started again? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 No, I've checked that. It takes over 80,000 imports to make the db get up to 1.5 Gb without any compact on close (tested it). We do a compact on close to compact the file when it is shutdown and restarted. The restart app keeps checking to make sure the window has completely closed before it tries to restart the application in order to handle the compact on close delay. In the test situation, we're overwriting the same data repeatedly to the same folder, and the temp files are being deleted after import, so the space should be available for reuse. I have seen no indication that memory use is spiking or that is is even approaching the limits. The free space on the drive doesn't appear to be suffering, nor does the available resouces for other apps. Between restarts, the database bloats up to 50MB to 150MB, depending on how many zip files we use in the test. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 On 9 Aug 2004 at 9:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another > folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into > temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved > from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and > the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer > interval has elapsed. > If you are filling and clearing temporary tables hundreds of times, are you sure it's not a case of the database bloating - either until it hits the 2GB barrier or the workstation runs out of space on the working drive? -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 16:13:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:13:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB25F@main2.marlow.com> Well, we didn't really want to say anything.......BUT.......... (sorry, couldn't resist!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 8:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >JC, we're not interested in your fatherly advice... Just your developer expertise. ;) So... I really am useless then! 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions JC, we're not interested in your fatherly advice... Just your developer expertise. ;) Susan H. LOL, yep, it generally does go back to "I'm old and set in my ways and that's the way I want to do it". Believe me, I use that a lot these days. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 16:16:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:16:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB260@main2.marlow.com> Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 10 16:45:52 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:45:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: The point was that even the original programmer can't tell what i represents without looking up the declaration, wherever it may be. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long Integers.... You know, the only time I have EVER seen a conflict between integers and long integers, is when I'm using a 16 bit API, that requires integers in it's arguments. And what exactly is the problem you raised? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions May I point out that you previously said these variables represented longs because you *always* use longs as counters. Now you're saying they're "counting integers". It seems you've demonstrated the problem I raised quite nicely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 8:49 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Tue Aug 10 16:49:41 2004 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:49:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE59@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <200408102149.RAA00144@twister.bcentralhost.com> I'm not sure if this is progress but in VB.net you can define a variable as part of the For...Next statement: For i as Integer = 0 to 90 ' do something here Next i i only exists within the scope of the For...Next loop James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Do you always dim your variables at the top of the routines? I got in that habit sometime ago but it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve the "what type is it" issue. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Yep. I do it, and my boss hates it, although the other developers appreciate it. My boss feels that that extra green text makes the code *hard* to read and is unnecessary is short routines. My feeling is that I never know what might get inserted into the middle and it's easier to keep track if you comment the code when you write it. I had an instructor who insisted on this kind of commenting even for declarations and at the end of a function or sub. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I forget who mentioned something like this... If I < 90 Then 'some code here End If 'I but I SOMETIMES do the following in complex code... If intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Then 'some code here End If 'intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Anyone else do this? I usually just break up the complex code into functions/procedures. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 10 16:57:51 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:57:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: I don't quite know what loop you mean. When the restart app opens, it writes a status flag to the registry. We could have used text files or some other means, but the registry usage is consistent with our other apps. The primary app is waiting to see that flag before it shuts down. Once it sees it, the primary app writes a flag of its own and issues a Quit. If the restart app fails to open or doesn't write the flag, then the primary app doesn't shut down, it resets its restart interval for an hour later and goes about its business. Meanwhile the restart app is waiting for the flag from the primary app. It has already captured the hWnd of the primary app window, so it starts checking to see if the window has finally closed. It doesn't attempt to restart the primary app until that window is closed. It tries for up to 5 minutes to fail when trying to return the WindowText of that window. If the window never closes, the restart app shuts itself down after writing a failure status to the registry and it retains the log text file it has been writing along the way. That means that even if the primary app closes but the Access window stays open for some reason, the restart is never attempted. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 A funny side not to my earlier post. I had a ton of windows open on my screen for the last few days....and about an hour ago, I started closing things. One of the items running, was that 'test' db I whipped up. It was still going. I thought that was odd, because it couldn't have ported that much information (into 97 .mdb). So I killed it. Took a look at the file size, and it was only 11 megs. I think that it was 'reporting' that it was working, but still had the same 'lock'. Can you take your code of the loop, and have it run it externally, so your code truly starts, and truly stops, before getting started again? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 No, I've checked that. It takes over 80,000 imports to make the db get up to 1.5 Gb without any compact on close (tested it). We do a compact on close to compact the file when it is shutdown and restarted. The restart app keeps checking to make sure the window has completely closed before it tries to restart the application in order to handle the compact on close delay. In the test situation, we're overwriting the same data repeatedly to the same folder, and the temp files are being deleted after import, so the space should be available for reuse. I have seen no indication that memory use is spiking or that is is even approaching the limits. The free space on the drive doesn't appear to be suffering, nor does the available resouces for other apps. Between restarts, the database bloats up to 50MB to 150MB, depending on how many zip files we use in the test. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 On 9 Aug 2004 at 9:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another > folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into > temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved > from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and > the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer > interval has elapsed. > If you are filling and clearing temporary tables hundreds of times, are you sure it's not a case of the database bloating - either until it hits the 2GB barrier or the workstation runs out of space on the working drive? -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 10 17:00:28 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:00:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I'd say that's progress, although I would still probably apply use something other than a single character for a variable name and I would still use a data type prefix, intLoop, if nothing else, since the value of the variable is frequently used in tests within the loop, etc. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: James Barash [mailto:James at fcidms.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm not sure if this is progress but in VB.net you can define a variable as part of the For...Next statement: For i as Integer = 0 to 90 ' do something here Next i i only exists within the scope of the For...Next loop James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Do you always dim your variables at the top of the routines? I got in that habit sometime ago but it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve the "what type is it" issue. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Yep. I do it, and my boss hates it, although the other developers appreciate it. My boss feels that that extra green text makes the code *hard* to read and is unnecessary is short routines. My feeling is that I never know what might get inserted into the middle and it's easier to keep track if you comment the code when you write it. I had an instructor who insisted on this kind of commenting even for declarations and at the end of a function or sub. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I forget who mentioned something like this... If I < 90 Then 'some code here End If 'I but I SOMETIMES do the following in complex code... If intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Then 'some code here End If 'intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Anyone else do this? I usually just break up the complex code into functions/procedures. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 10 17:40:26 2004 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:40:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Scrolling in Code Window!! Message-ID: Michael, Thank you so much for the info. I always forget to look on the mvps site. Great resource. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 10 20:34:16 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:34:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB260@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000601c47f43$53d4d510$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> >Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using I Which is unfortunately the crux of the matter. It's all about "I". Programming is supposed to be about the client, THEIR software, THEIR maintenance costs if you are hit by a bus. NOT about "I find it easier to remember". When I come in to maintain your software I don't have your memories to work with! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 10 21:06:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:06:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB258@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000701c47f47$ccdfc880$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 10 21:20:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:20:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB255@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000801c47f49$bb7195e0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Tue Aug 10 21:42:28 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:12:28 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7B2@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Tue Aug 10 21:43:07 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48485.152.163.252.98.1092192187.squirrel@heck.xuppa.com> Hello Group Does anyone know how I can loop across columns from column C till the last one ? I only know how to loop though numerics Oleg Sub Numbers() Dim a As Integer Dim b As Integer Dim c a = 7 Do While IsEmpty(Range("A" & a)) = False b = 0 If Range("C" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("D" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("E" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("F" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("G" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("H" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("I" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("J" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("K" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("L" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("M" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("N" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("O" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If b >= 2 Then Range("A" & a).Font.ColorIndex = 3 a = a + 1 Loop End Sub ----------------------------------------- Make Money and Find Love at Finally.com http://www.finally.com/?link=webmail From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 10 22:34:33 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:34:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7B2@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Message-ID: <000b01c47f54$21b1d720$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Tue Aug 10 23:13:02 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:43:02 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7B3@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 1:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 11 00:27:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 01:27:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7B3@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Message-ID: <001001c47f63$de4043e0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Wed Aug 11 00:48:36 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:18:36 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7B6@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Suit yourself John. I think you've clearly stated what 'category' you're in. Good luck. -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 2:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 11 00:58:54 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:58:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <000701c47f47$ccdfc880$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: I do agree with you John, completely on this one. I have had my fill following behind programmers who can and have cranked out code with gay abandon. A few, I am sure, work under the philosophy that it was hard enough to write so it should be hard to read. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 7:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 11 01:23:09 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 02:23:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c47f6b$afcd92d0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> LOL. I've had my fill of following behind myself, trying to figure out what the heck I was thinking. Anything I can do to reduce that feeling is worthwhile. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I do agree with you John, completely on this one. I have had my fill following behind programmers who can and have cranked out code with gay abandon. A few, I am sure, work under the philosophy that it was hard enough to write so it should be hard to read. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 7:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 11 02:09:30 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:09:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7B2@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Message-ID: That is an interesting point. Not agreeing or disagreeing with the new conventions; there are reason that Microsoft feels that the new standards should be used. I wonder if these are more to promote their development environments and to establish a developers dependency on their products than to assist. Some of the reasons they give for coding in the new standard are that the editors are now case sensitive so that variables entered like thisvariable are different from thisVariable and ThisVariable and Thisvariable. Another is that their editors now will display the variable type by just hovering over them. Microsoft has gone so far as to have their editors, by default, not identifying certain variables that do not match their new style standards...i.e. a constant or static variable would not be recognized as a variable unless they use the camel style; myCustomerName but not MyCustomerName. I hope their, Microsoft's reasons for moving all developers to the 'new standard' is to improve coding efficiency and readability and not just to hijack the industry into their camp as they tried to do with Java or like they did against open-GL and their DirectX. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 7:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Wed Aug 11 02:15:39 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:15:39 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel Question Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0ADAD1@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Using CELLS (row, column) With celLs you can approach a cell in a numeric way. Every function that use a alfanum style like "B7" can be replaced with cells(2,7) Use this for 1 cell ( replace 1 and 1 by a variable) objSheet.Cells(1, 1) = "TEST" Use this for approaching a range (replace 2,2 and 2,3 by variables) objSheet.Range(objSheet.Cells(2, 2), objSheet.Cells(2, 3)) = "jkjlkjl" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:43 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel Question Hello Group Does anyone know how I can loop across columns from column C till the last one ? I only know how to loop though numerics Oleg Sub Numbers() Dim a As Integer Dim b As Integer Dim c a = 7 Do While IsEmpty(Range("A" & a)) = False b = 0 If Range("C" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("D" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("E" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("F" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("G" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("H" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("I" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("J" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("K" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("L" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("M" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("N" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("O" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If b >= 2 Then Range("A" & a).Font.ColorIndex = 3 a = a + 1 Loop End Sub ----------------------------------------- Make Money and Find Love at Finally.com http://www.finally.com/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 11 08:29:05 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:29:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport In-Reply-To: <20040809133125.XXMG1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <20040811132908.BDAD1788.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Well, first, couldn't get the syntax right for setting the subreport control's Visible property. Second, even so, it still left the space above the record, so my feeling is this isn't about the control. Is it possible that the report's Detail prints the subreport BEFORE it executes the Format event? That's the only explanation I can come up with. Susan H. Oh Gustav... Sorry... What you said just sunk in -- no, I hadn't tried that -- I will. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 11 08:38:35 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:38:35 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport In-Reply-To: <20040811132908.BDAD1788.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040811132908.BDAD1788.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <10724994840.20040811153835@cactus.dk> Hi Susan It may be so - I haven't looked into it. Could you possibly use the Print event and not the Format event? /gustav > Well, first, couldn't get the syntax right for setting the subreport > control's Visible property. Second, even so, it still left the space above > the record, so my feeling is this isn't about the control. Is it possible > that the report's Detail prints the subreport BEFORE it executes the Format > event? That's the only explanation I can come up with. > Susan H. > Oh Gustav... Sorry... What you said just sunk in -- no, I hadn't tried that > -- I will. From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed Aug 11 09:07:16 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:07:16 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Link to Password Protected DB Message-ID: Hello All, In A2K I need to relink tables to a password protected db. I don't want the user to have to enter a password? Any suggestions? Thanks, Mark _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 11 09:29:38 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:29:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport In-Reply-To: <10724994840.20040811153835@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040811142938.TNOP1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I haven't tried it yet, but that was my next step -- to try a different event. Susan H. Hi Susan It may be so - I haven't looked into it. Could you possibly use the Print event and not the Format event? From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Aug 11 09:58:35 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:58:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Link to Password Protected DB In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30937341@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB745@ADGSERVER> We store the PW as a group of strings that look random and then put them back together in a certain order. We actually use constants that are in different modules. Not the best way to do it, but if someone wants in bad enough, there are plenty of utilities out there that will give them the password. You could store the encrypted password in the db or code and decrypt it before using it. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Link to Password Protected DB Hello All, In A2K I need to relink tables to a password protected db. I don't want the user to have to enter a password? Any suggestions? Thanks, Mark From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed Aug 11 10:21:45 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:21:45 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box Message-ID: Hello All, I thought this situation had passed. First, Thanks for all the feedback...for the most part...the conversion went fine. The problem is the file I am converting contains a field that is 'free text' and is often copied/pasted from other applications. In the 3rd record...in this field, there is a character that is interpreted as EOF...so my code stops without an error...but only the first 2 records are imported. Is there any way to test for this situation(2 EOFs or when there is data past EOF)? Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: "Pedro Janssen" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box >Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:10:22 +0200 > >Hello Mark, > >i use VBA on Reflection FTP to send a unix file as an ascii file >to an windows box. Then it is imported with no problems in access. >If you want the code, let me know, i will send you this next week >from my work. > >Pedro Janssen > > > > > >From: "Mark A Matte" > > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > > >solving > > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > >Subject: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box > > >Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:48:01 +0000 > > > > > >Hello All, > > > > > >I have an A97 db that imports a text file. The text file was on a >Windows > > >box...but now is generated and sent to a UNIX box. The UNIX version of > > >this text file has a CR or LF character after each record...and access >sees > > >this as the end of the file. Any suggestions in using vba to convert >this > > >file(or those characters) back to a Windows format/ > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Mark A. Matte > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to 'Dig Yourself Out of Debt' from >MSN > > >Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx > > > > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 11 10:52:15 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:52:15 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Link to Password Protected DB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15233015413.20040811175215@cactus.dk> Hi Mark > In A2K I need to relink tables to a password protected db. I don't want the > user to have to enter a password? Any suggestions? At least once, connect to your backend using the correct password. This stores the password in the connect string of the tables. When you wish to relink: 1. Retrieve the connect string from one of the tables. 2. Rebuild the connect string replacing the old path with the new path along the lines of the comments of this function: Public Function DaoTableJetConnect( _ ByVal strConnect As String, _ ByVal strDatabase As String) _ As String ' Builds DAO connect string for attaching a Jet table. ' strConnect is empty for a non-secured database. ' For a password protected database it may look like: ' ' "MS Access;PWD=password;" ' ' strDatabase must be a valid full path filename like: ' ' "F:\Folder\JetFile.mdb" ' ' Result string will be, respectively: ' ' ";DATABASE=F:\Folder\JetFile.mdb" ' "MS Access;PWD=password;;DATABASE=F:\Folder\JetFile.mdb" ' ' 2004-05-04. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim strTdfConnect As String ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next strTdfConnect = SetConnectKey(strConnect, cstrConnectionKeyDb, strDatabase) DaoTableJetConnect = strTdfConnect End Function The SetConnectKey is a quite convoluted function which will be overkill here but essentially it performs string manipulation to build the new result string as shown. (Look for "DATABASE=" and replace until next semicolon or end of string). 3. Relink the tables using the revised connect string. This way your password resides in the connect string of the linked tables and nowhere else. /gustav From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 12:11:30 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:11:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 12:25:08 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:25:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: ROTFL! Please notice that there is a difference between Microsoft (and FMS) no longer recommending Hungarian and Microsoft recommending you NOT use it. What they're recommending now, is not very different from what they've *always* recommended. The arguments are specious. Why would eliminating Hungarian make code any easier to manage?? The disciplines involved in managing code (i.e., changing data types) don't really have anything to do with notation, they are procedural. Coming up with prefixes would be a chore?? How about the hundreds that are already being maintained and used. Please excuse me, but I guess that was so easy! The assumption is that code will always be looked at on-line, never in any other form, so you can always hover a mouse over something to find out what it is. Oh, you don't *use* a mouse?? Uh, well ... Their arguments are excuses. I'm not impressed with FMS products or excuses. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 1:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 12:33:18 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:33:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDAC@DISABILITYINS01> I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with spaces. I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific location. Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but I can't find the email. I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a simple: While Len(strPad) < mintLen strPad = strPad & "@" Wend But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ characters? JWC From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 12:43:12 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:43:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDAD@DISABILITYINS01> >I'm not impressed with FMS products ... I was being soooooo nice! ;-) So thanks for that. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions ROTFL! Please notice that there is a difference between Microsoft (and FMS) no longer recommending Hungarian and Microsoft recommending you NOT use it. What they're recommending now, is not very different from what they've *always* recommended. The arguments are specious. Why would eliminating Hungarian make code any easier to manage?? The disciplines involved in managing code (i.e., changing data types) don't really have anything to do with notation, they are procedural. Coming up with prefixes would be a chore?? How about the hundreds that are already being maintained and used. Please excuse me, but I guess that was so easy! The assumption is that code will always be looked at on-line, never in any other form, so you can always hover a mouse over something to find out what it is. Oh, you don't *use* a mouse?? Uh, well ... Their arguments are excuses. I'm not impressed with FMS products or excuses. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 1:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Aug 11 13:07:24 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:07:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F1CA1EF@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Try string(40,"@") Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:33 PM > To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' > Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger > string > > I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for > dates, > $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. > > I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with > spaces. > > I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific > location. > > Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but > I > can't find the email. > > I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a > simple: > > While Len(strPad) < mintLen > strPad = strPad & "@" > Wend > > But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ > characters? > > JWC > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed Aug 11 13:18:40 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:18:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658B4@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> String("@",40) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:33 PM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with spaces. I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific location. Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but I can't find the email. I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a simple: While Len(strPad) < mintLen strPad = strPad & "@" Wend But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ characters? JWC -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 11 13:24:10 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:24:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01dd01c47fd0$6683b810$6601a8c0@rock> Your post reminds me of something I read in "Code Complete", by Steve McConnell (a book I consider essential reading for any programmer, irrespective of language(s) used). It was my custom to put all variable declarations at the top of a given module, but Steve recommends against that, and suggests instead that declarations ought to go as close as possible to the portion of the code in which they are used. That struck me as counter-intuitive but the more I thought about it the more persuasive I found his argument. Lots of code is produced using copy/paste. If the declaration is right above the loop or whatever, it's simple to grab it along with the loop itself, for use elsewhere. And the compiler sorts it all out anyway, so what you're really talking about is readability for humans not machines. From that p.o.v., why should you learn about a variable until immediately before it is used? Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Yep. I do it, and my boss hates it, although the other developers appreciate it. My boss feels that that extra green text makes the code *hard* to read and is unnecessary is short routines. My feeling is that I never know what might get inserted into the middle and it's easier to keep track if you comment the code when you write it. I had an instructor who insisted on this kind of commenting even for declarations and at the end of a function or sub. Charlotte Foust From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 13:31:50 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:31:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: ROTFLMAO! You WERE?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >I'm not impressed with FMS products ... I was being soooooo nice! ;-) So thanks for that. JWC From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 11 13:33:39 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:33:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <000b01c47f54$21b1d720$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <01e001c47fd1$b8b72800$6601a8c0@rock> A) Would you kindly tone down the vitriol? My eyes start to hurt when you start yelling :) B) MS dropped the notion of Hungarian prefixes. That is quite a different issue than "should Inventory Item be represented by II?" A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 13:41:54 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:41:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I've read code complete, and I agree with that approach. I suspect it is a carryover from structured programming disciplines, where you *always* declared the variables just in time to use them in that routine. Structured programming sometimes seems to be an uneasy fit over Object Oriented and Event Driven code, but I still declare variables at the top of the routine, just before they're used. I don't normally declare variables at the module level, except in classes, I pass arguments between routines instead. If you want to be picky, in structured programming you never have a routine that does more than one thing, so the top of a routine *is* as close as they can get. :-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Your post reminds me of something I read in "Code Complete", by Steve McConnell (a book I consider essential reading for any programmer, irrespective of language(s) used). It was my custom to put all variable declarations at the top of a given module, but Steve recommends against that, and suggests instead that declarations ought to go as close as possible to the portion of the code in which they are used. That struck me as counter-intuitive but the more I thought about it the more persuasive I found his argument. Lots of code is produced using copy/paste. If the declaration is right above the loop or whatever, it's simple to grab it along with the loop itself, for use elsewhere. And the compiler sorts it all out anyway, so what you're really talking about is readability for humans not machines. From that p.o.v., why should you learn about a variable until immediately before it is used? Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Yep. I do it, and my boss hates it, although the other developers appreciate it. My boss feels that that extra green text makes the code *hard* to read and is unnecessary is short routines. My feeling is that I never know what might get inserted into the middle and it's easier to keep track if you comment the code when you write it. I had an instructor who insisted on this kind of commenting even for declarations and at the end of a function or sub. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 13:46:01 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:46:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB0@DISABILITYINS01> >Would you kindly tone down the vitriol? My eyes start to hurt when you start yelling Do I hafta? Naming conventions are more than prefixes. Naming conventions often (usually?) include suggestions for such things as how to capitalize, how to abbreviate, prefixes, use of (or prohibition of) _)(*&^%$#@! in variable names and so forth. These are both just different parts of the same issue. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions A) Would you kindly tone down the vitriol? My eyes start to hurt when you start yelling :) B) MS dropped the notion of Hungarian prefixes. That is quite a different issue than "should Inventory Item be represented by II?" A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 13:47:11 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:47:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB1@DISABILITYINS01> lol. You didn't think so? I was really just trying to whip up support for the Colby naming convention. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions ROTFLMAO! You WERE?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >I'm not impressed with FMS products ... I was being soooooo nice! ;-) So thanks for that. JWC -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 13:48:39 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:48:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB2@DISABILITYINS01> Cool, now I need to know how to place a string of len N at position O in another string. This is for export to a mainframe where the string they want is about 3,000 characters, of which a total of about 200 characters will actually have data from us. So: Insert in a string of blanks (spaces), at position 12, a string of length 10. REPLACE 10 characters with my 10 characters, starting at position 12. Insert in a string of blanks, at position 60, a string of length 25. Insert in a string of blanks, at position 124, a string of length 13. Etc. I have a field map of their data, and I can brute force it by just appending strings together. I think it was Gustav that suggested a smarter way using a built in VB function. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string String("@",40) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:33 PM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with spaces. I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific location. Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but I can't find the email. I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a simple: While Len(strPad) < mintLen strPad = strPad & "@" Wend But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ characters? JWC -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 13:48:09 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:48:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I'll subscribe, John. That is, I'll use it as long as I don't have to support the code! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions lol. You didn't think so? I was really just trying to whip up support for the Colby naming convention. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions ROTFLMAO! You WERE?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >I'm not impressed with FMS products ... I was being soooooo nice! ;-) So thanks for that. JWC -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 11 13:39:47 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:39:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDAC@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: Hi John: Do you mean somthing like this: strInitialString = right(string("@",intWidth) & strInitialString, intWidth) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:33 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with spaces. I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific location. Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but I can't find the email. I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a simple: While Len(strPad) < mintLen strPad = strPad & "@" Wend But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ characters? JWC -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 13:57:10 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:57:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB3@DISABILITYINS01> I think the mid$ does what I need. I have to experiment. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string Hi John: Do you mean somthing like this: strInitialString = right(string("@",intWidth) & strInitialString, intWidth) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:33 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with spaces. I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific location. Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but I can't find the email. I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a simple: While Len(strPad) < mintLen strPad = strPad & "@" Wend But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ characters? JWC -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 11 13:57:59 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:57:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question about parsing a string intelligently In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01ed01c47fd5$20ace5a0$6601a8c0@rock> An app I'm doing involves replacing paper forms with nifty software forms. However, some of the shortcuts the users take on the paper forms, while readily readable for humans, are a little more problematic from the p.o.v. of Access. Here's an example. The customer wants to buy 132 units per month, to be delivered in six shipments per month. On the paper form, the client writes this: Amount Material Price Delivery Date 132 ST/mo SHG Slab xxxxx Aug 2, 5, 9, 12, 16, 19 The order in question is for the next 6 months, so the user fills in six such rows, each of whose ultimate column contains a collection of dates as presented above. I would like the user to be able to enter the dates exactly as shown above, and then magically turn them into 6 detail rows apiece. Note that the year is not entered. In this case it's not a problem, we can assume the current year; but suppose there were 7 rows not 6. The last row would say something like Jan and I would have to magically comprehend that we've passsed December so the implication is that that row applies to 2005. My first version of the software didn't anticipate this at all. Instead it had a cute calendar popup thingie that allows you to select one date. As a result, my UI sucks compared to the old paper form (in this respect at least). As I recall, there is some simple function that receives a comma-delimited string and returns an array of its substrings, as it were. But I can't remember what that function is. I could write it, and probably have for some long-forgotten app, but IIRC it's now built into Access. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Something that could possibly be cool in this situation is a calendar control that does multi-select. Does anyone know of such a beast? There is at least one more wrinkle in this problem, located in column 1 of the example above. The notation means 132 short tons (i.e. American tons, 2000 lb) per month. Dividing evenly, that's 22 short tons per shipment. But the entries in this column totally depend on what the customer is used to: alternative entries might include: 132 MT/mo -- metric (i.e. civilized) tons 22 STs/shp -- the user did the dividing 264000 lb/mo -- oddball user measures everything in pounds not tons, short or metric :) Okay, this message has gone on long enough. TIA, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box Hello All, I thought this situation had passed. First, Thanks for all the feedback...for the most part...the conversion went fine. The problem is the file I am converting contains a field that is 'free text' and is often copied/pasted from other applications. In the 3rd record...in this field, there is a character that is interpreted as EOF...so my code stops without an error...but only the first 2 records are imported. Is there any way to test for this situation(2 EOFs or when there is data past EOF)? Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: "Pedro Janssen" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box >Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:10:22 +0200 > >Hello Mark, > >i use VBA on Reflection FTP to send a unix file as an ascii file to an >windows box. Then it is imported with no problems in access. If you >want the code, let me know, i will send you this next week from my >work. > >Pedro Janssen > > > > > >From: "Mark A Matte" > > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > > >solving > > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > >Subject: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box > > >Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:48:01 +0000 > > > > > >Hello All, > > > > > >I have an A97 db that imports a text file. The text file was on a >Windows > > >box...but now is generated and sent to a UNIX box. The UNIX > > >version of this text file has a CR or LF character after each > > >record...and access >sees > > >this as the end of the file. Any suggestions in using vba to > > >convert >this > > >file(or those characters) back to a Windows format/ > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Mark A. Matte > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to 'Dig Yourself Out of Debt' > > >from >MSN > > >Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx > > > > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 14:02:25 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:02:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB4@DISABILITYINS01> I'm in love! JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I've read code complete, and I agree with that approach. I suspect it is a carryover from structured programming disciplines, where you *always* declared the variables just in time to use them in that routine. Structured programming sometimes seems to be an uneasy fit over Object Oriented and Event Driven code, but I still declare variables at the top of the routine, just before they're used. I don't normally declare variables at the module level, except in classes, I pass arguments between routines instead. If you want to be picky, in structured programming you never have a routine that does more than one thing, so the top of a routine *is* as close as they can get. :-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Your post reminds me of something I read in "Code Complete", by Steve McConnell (a book I consider essential reading for any programmer, irrespective of language(s) used). It was my custom to put all variable declarations at the top of a given module, but Steve recommends against that, and suggests instead that declarations ought to go as close as possible to the portion of the code in which they are used. That struck me as counter-intuitive but the more I thought about it the more persuasive I found his argument. Lots of code is produced using copy/paste. If the declaration is right above the loop or whatever, it's simple to grab it along with the loop itself, for use elsewhere. And the compiler sorts it all out anyway, so what you're really talking about is readability for humans not machines. From that p.o.v., why should you learn about a variable until immediately before it is used? Arthur From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 11 14:05:48 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:05:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDAC@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <01ee01c47fd6$36b66af0$6601a8c0@rock> Well, this part is easy. I named the following function after several similars that I learned in dBASE, Clipper, etc. '----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- ' Procedure : Replicate ' DateTime : 8/11/2004 15:00 ' Author : Arthur Fuller ' Purpose : return a string consisting of the input char replicated to N length ' Notes : ' : ' Revisions : ' : '----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- ' Public Function Replicate(strChar, intCount) As String Dim strResult As String Dim i As Integer On Error GoTo Replicate_Error For i = 1 To intCount strResult = strResult + strChar Next Replicate = strResult On Error GoTo 0 Exit Function Replicate_Error: MsgBox "Error " & Err.Number & " (" & Err.Description & ")" & _ vbCrLf & _ "in procedure Replicate of Module aaLib" End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:33 PM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with spaces. I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific location. Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but I can't find the email. I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a simple: While Len(strPad) < mintLen strPad = strPad & "@" Wend But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ characters? JWC -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 11 14:07:21 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:07:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F1CA1EF@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <01f001c47fd6$6e334840$6601a8c0@rock> Wow, I answered JC too quickly! After all these years in Access, I didn't know that you could do that! KEWL! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Colby, John' Subject: RE: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing Try string(40,"@") Lambert From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 14:14:32 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:14:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Drew your naming convention reasoning lead me to the following web page... http://mindprod.com/unmainnaming.html Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 14:22:44 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:22:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Wed Aug 11 14:28:32 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:28:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Question about parsing a string intelligently In-Reply-To: <01ed01c47fd5$20ace5a0$6601a8c0@rock> References: <01ed01c47fd5$20ace5a0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040811142832.640643364.serbach@new.rr.com> Arthur, >> As I recall, there is some simple function that receives a comma-delimited string and returns an array of its substrings, as it were. But I can't remember what that function is. << Split is what you want, I think: "Returns a zero-based, one-dimensional array containing a specified number of substrings." >> Something that could possibly be cool in this situation is a calendar control that does multi-select. Does anyone know of such a beast? << You're right! That would be cool. Sorry, don't know of any. Steve Erbach From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 11 14:27:19 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:27:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB2@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <01fd01c47fd9$3a206990$6601a8c0@rock> I used a technique a while ago which you might find useful. I just came up with it myself and didn't carefully guard against unusual situations, since there weren't any. If your text has unusual possibilities, you may need to revise this accordingly. Provisos aside, I came up with a convention like this (this is pseudo-code, no wrap etc.) strTarget = "This is a string containing markers such as \\InvoiceNumber\\ and further along in the string another marker, this one named \\Quantity\\ and yet another named \\Price\\. lngInvoiceNo = 12345 intQty = 23 currPrice = 2999.99 strTarget = Replace(strTarget,"\\InvoiceNumber\\",lngInvoiceNo) strTarget = Replace(strTarget,"\\Quantity\\",intQty) strTarget = Replace(strTarget,"\\Price\\",currPrice) In the actual app in which I did this, there were about 2 dozen such replaces going on. It took a second or two, but nothing to complain about. I did however have problems concerning the length of the string. I could never nail down exactly when and why it would sometimes fail, but I thing it had to do with the length of the string in question. I eventually gave up inspecting it in the debugger and went another way. I stored the target string in a database column instead of in the code, then derived the "replacement" string using a temp table and a query. For some reason, that approach worked infallibly while the simple string-replace in memory gave me problems occasionally. Your mileage may vary. Given the length of the string you want to build, go ahead and try it in memory, but if you hit a bump in the road, consider the stored-text approach. HTH, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing Cool, now I need to know how to place a string of len N at position O in another string. This is for export to a mainframe where the string they want is about 3,000 characters, of which a total of about 200 characters will actually have data from us. So: Insert in a string of blanks (spaces), at position 12, a string of length 10. REPLACE 10 characters with my 10 characters, starting at position 12. Insert in a string of blanks, at position 60, a string of length 25. Insert in a string of blanks, at position 124, a string of length 13. Etc. I have a field map of their data, and I can brute force it by just appending strings together. I think it was Gustav that suggested a smarter way using a built in VB function. JWC From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 14:30:47 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:30:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB6@DISABILITYINS01> That is a classic! JWC -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew your naming convention reasoning lead me to the following web page... http://mindprod.com/unmainnaming.html Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 14:35:34 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:35:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 14:46:58 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:46:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: John, You are exactly right. Best practices in no way imply that someone's code is worst practice, just not best practice. I think some members of the list take it that if you don't follow best practice, then you stink as a programmer. I don't think you are saying that. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 14:50:27 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:50:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I don't think anyone is saying that you have to use prefixes. I think they are saying that a variable should have some meaningful name. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 14:55:50 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:55:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Andrew, The point is that Microsoft is using some kind of convention. 'ii = new Inventory Item' (as Drew suggested) isn't a naming convention for easily maintained code. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 1:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 14:59:58 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:59:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB7@DISABILITYINS01> Scott, You are correct, I am not saying that. I have seen some of the things that Drew does and I am VERY impressed with his skill as a programmer. I am not impressed with a variable name of II. There is more to being a good programmer than lines of code per day, or the coolness of your algorithm. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, You are exactly right. Best practices in no way imply that someone's code is worst practice, just not best practice. I think some members of the list take it that if you don't follow best practice, then you stink as a programmer. I don't think you are saying that. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 15:08:29 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:08:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: My new email writing convention... New variables will be assigned in the future. This will save loads of keystrokes latter on. You will need to refer back to this and any new messages to understand the logic. Please make note now. Dim a as string = "John," Dim b as string = "I" Dim c as string = "love" Dim d as string = "it" Dim e as string = "when" Dim f as string = "you" Dim g as string = "get" Dim h as string = "on" Dim i as string = "a" Dim j as string = "roll." Dim k as string = "Scott Marcus" a b c d e f g h i j k Sorry, I could not resist! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 15:20:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:20:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB267@main2.marlow.com> Really? That's a VERY broad statement. I know what each and every i is, because I define them ALL as Long. Not too mention....who cares? When you see: For i=0 to rs.fields.count-1 ..... Next i Why would it matter what I is defined as? Even if it was a byte, it would still be fine, because you can't have more then 255 fields. So if the problem is actually an out of range issue, then take a few moments to go back to the top of the procedure to look at the declaration is nothing. When just looking at the code, who gives a flip as to how the variable is defined. The reason it's used, and what it is doing has litte to nothing to do with the dimensioning. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions The point was that even the original programmer can't tell what i represents without looking up the declaration, wherever it may be. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long Integers.... You know, the only time I have EVER seen a conflict between integers and long integers, is when I'm using a 16 bit API, that requires integers in it's arguments. And what exactly is the problem you raised? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions May I point out that you previously said these variables represented longs because you *always* use longs as counters. Now you're saying they're "counting integers". It seems you've demonstrated the problem I raised quite nicely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 8:49 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Wed Aug 11 15:20:35 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:20:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions References: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB7@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <00af01c47fe0$a9670780$6401a8c0@default> For i = 1 to NamingConventions.Count Delete Next ... ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 15:21:48 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:21:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB268@main2.marlow.com> That's pretty much what I was saying. You have 2 apps, one to run the process, one to cycle the first. Is that setup still locking up? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I don't quite know what loop you mean. When the restart app opens, it writes a status flag to the registry. We could have used text files or some other means, but the registry usage is consistent with our other apps. The primary app is waiting to see that flag before it shuts down. Once it sees it, the primary app writes a flag of its own and issues a Quit. If the restart app fails to open or doesn't write the flag, then the primary app doesn't shut down, it resets its restart interval for an hour later and goes about its business. Meanwhile the restart app is waiting for the flag from the primary app. It has already captured the hWnd of the primary app window, so it starts checking to see if the window has finally closed. It doesn't attempt to restart the primary app until that window is closed. It tries for up to 5 minutes to fail when trying to return the WindowText of that window. If the window never closes, the restart app shuts itself down after writing a failure status to the registry and it retains the log text file it has been writing along the way. That means that even if the primary app closes but the Access window stays open for some reason, the restart is never attempted. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 A funny side not to my earlier post. I had a ton of windows open on my screen for the last few days....and about an hour ago, I started closing things. One of the items running, was that 'test' db I whipped up. It was still going. I thought that was odd, because it couldn't have ported that much information (into 97 .mdb). So I killed it. Took a look at the file size, and it was only 11 megs. I think that it was 'reporting' that it was working, but still had the same 'lock'. Can you take your code of the loop, and have it run it externally, so your code truly starts, and truly stops, before getting started again? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 No, I've checked that. It takes over 80,000 imports to make the db get up to 1.5 Gb without any compact on close (tested it). We do a compact on close to compact the file when it is shutdown and restarted. The restart app keeps checking to make sure the window has completely closed before it tries to restart the application in order to handle the compact on close delay. In the test situation, we're overwriting the same data repeatedly to the same folder, and the temp files are being deleted after import, so the space should be available for reuse. I have seen no indication that memory use is spiking or that is is even approaching the limits. The free space on the drive doesn't appear to be suffering, nor does the available resouces for other apps. Between restarts, the database bloats up to 50MB to 150MB, depending on how many zip files we use in the test. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 On 9 Aug 2004 at 9:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another > folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into > temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved > from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and > the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer > interval has elapsed. > If you are filling and clearing temporary tables hundreds of times, are you sure it's not a case of the database bloating - either until it hits the 2GB barrier or the workstation runs out of space on the working drive? -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 15:26:37 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:26:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB269@main2.marlow.com> Still don't see what point you are trying to make. There are people on the list (other then me) who have said they use i, j, k. Then there are people that use long variable definitions. Going either way is leaving the client a 50/50 shot as to having the next developer use the same methods. Do you understand what I am saying JC? If everyone used the same methods, and I was the only person in the world that was different, then I would have to change, because it doesn't make logic sense, and I would be hurting my clients. But I'm NOT the lone wolf on this. There IS NO world wide standard, that everyone else adheres too. There are camps. Camps of people that feel one way or the other. If you belong to Camp A, you can't possible write code to satisfy other Camp A folks, and Camp B, and Camp C, etc. If you stick to Camp A, your client has the same chance of getting a new developer from the right camp, no matter what camp you decide to align with. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using I Which is unfortunately the crux of the matter. It's all about "I". Programming is supposed to be about the client, THEIR software, THEIR maintenance costs if you are hit by a bus. NOT about "I find it easier to remember". When I come in to maintain your software I don't have your memories to work with! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 11 15:31:03 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:31:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport In-Reply-To: <20040811142938.TNOP1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <20040811203103.BAZA1792.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Arg.... I changed the <> operator to < and it works fine. Susan H. I haven't tried it yet, but that was my next step -- to try a different event. Susan H. Hi Susan It may be so - I haven't looked into it. Could you possibly use the Print event and not the Format event? From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 15:33:33 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:33:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Drew, I remember talking about spaghetti code around a year or so ago. Wasn't it you who said that you used goto's liberally? Now I'm starting to sound like a troll. I'll stop. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Still don't see what point you are trying to make. There are people on the list (other then me) who have said they use i, j, k. Then there are people that use long variable definitions. Going either way is leaving the client a 50/50 shot as to having the next developer use the same methods. Do you understand what I am saying JC? If everyone used the same methods, and I was the only person in the world that was different, then I would have to change, because it doesn't make logic sense, and I would be hurting my clients. But I'm NOT the lone wolf on this. There IS NO world wide standard, that everyone else adheres too. There are camps. Camps of people that feel one way or the other. If you belong to Camp A, you can't possible write code to satisfy other Camp A folks, and Camp B, and Camp C, etc. If you stick to Camp A, your client has the same chance of getting a new developer from the right camp, no matter what camp you decide to align with. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using I Which is unfortunately the crux of the matter. It's all about "I". Programming is supposed to be about the client, THEIR software, THEIR maintenance costs if you are hit by a bus. NOT about "I find it easier to remember". When I come in to maintain your software I don't have your memories to work with! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 15:40:45 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:40:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26B@main2.marlow.com> JC, have you ever gone to the DMV, or some other beauracratic office, and spent hours doing something that should have taken 10 seconds? Ever been in a store, or office where you sit and watch someone go through torturous paths on some developed software, because you want to change your phone number in there records? These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the fastest in, and find the most convenient to use. That saves my clients time and money. It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you don't have to change mindsets. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 15:45:10 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:45:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26C@main2.marlow.com> I knew that ii thing would get your goat. Ever programmed in Microsoft Scripting Editor? Do you know how easy it is to misspell InventoryItem? How hard is it to misspell ii? ii looks NOTHING like io, or iu, or ij, etc. However, InventryItem doesn't seem too far off. Try debugging ASP applications.... And as far as someone coming in 'behind' me, they'll find nice structured classes, that handle all of the logic encapsulated in the Classes scope. Pretty easy to follow (at least with projects in the last 2 years......no comment on previous stuff....LOL). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:20 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 15:46:43 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:46:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26D@main2.marlow.com> Thankyou, just plain thankyou. And welcome to the 'Going to be Banished by JC' club! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 15:53:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:53:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26E@main2.marlow.com> Actually JC, i wouldn't be acceptable as a variable InventoryItem object. Two reasons. One, i already is set aside for counting integers (longs), and all objects have at least 2 characters in them. ii would be an InventoryItem, but if I had a larger collection class, of InventoryItems, then I would use iis. Hopefully you're not spitting blood yet.....though you may be foaming at the mouth. Here's an example of one of my Class Initialization events: Private Sub Class_Initialize() Dim cnn As ADODB.Connection Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset Dim strSQL As String Dim inv As Invoice Set Invs = New Collection Set rs = New ADODB.Recordset DBConnection cnn strSQL = "SELECT tblShoppingCarts.CartID, InvoiceNumber " & _ "FROM tblShoppingCarts INNER JOIN tblInvoiceNumbers ON tblShoppingCarts.CartID=tblInvoiceNumbers.CartID " & _ "WHERE RecordedInGlovia=False AND Closed=True AND PaymentResponse=1" rs.Open strSQL, cnn, adOpenKeyset, adLockReadOnly If rs.EOF = False Then rs.MoveFirst Do Until rs.EOF = True Set inv = New Invoice inv.CartID = rs.Fields(0).Value inv.InvoiceNumber = rs.Fields(1).Value Set inv.Connection = cnn inv.GetLineItems Invs.Add inv Set inv = Nothing rs.MoveNext Loop rs.Close Set rs = Nothing cnn.Close Set cnn = Nothing End Sub Now tell me that you would have a real problem following the logic and naming convention used above. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Aug 11 15:59:14 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:59:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F1CA1FC@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Air code.... Function InstertString(strInsert as String, strTarget As String, nPos as Long) as String Dim strLeft as String, strRight as String If Len(strTarget) < nPos + 1 Then ' do something about this error condition Else strLeft = Left(strTarget,nPos) strRight = Mid(strTarget,nPos + 1) strTarget = strLeft & strInsert & strRight InstertString = strTarget End If End Function Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:49 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a > larger str ing > > Cool, now I need to know how to place a string of len N at position O in > another string. > > This is for export to a mainframe where the string they want is about > 3,000 > characters, of which a total of about 200 characters will actually have > data > from us. > > So: > > Insert in a string of blanks (spaces), at position 12, a string of length > 10. REPLACE 10 characters with my 10 characters, starting at position 12. > Insert in a string of blanks, at position 60, a string of length 25. > Insert in a string of blanks, at position 124, a string of length 13. > > Etc. > > I have a field map of their data, and I can brute force it by just > appending > strings together. I think it was Gustav that suggested a smarter way > using > a built in VB function. > > JWC > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger > string > > > String("@",40) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:33 PM > To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' > Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger > string > > I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for > dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. > > I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with > spaces. > > I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a > specific location. > > Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string > but I can't find the email. > > I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a > simple: > > While Len(strPad) < mintLen > strPad = strPad & "@" > Wend > > But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ > characters? > > JWC > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ---------------------------------------- > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the > taking > of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly > prohibited. > If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the > sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are > prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Aug 11 16:08:05 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:08:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel Question Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F1CA1FD@xlivmbx21.aig.com> You can also use row,column numbering to address a range. Like this Dim oRng as Excel.Range Dim xlSheet As Excel.Worksheet DIm nFirstColumn as Long, nLastColumn as Long ... ' some object initialization code snipped ... Set oRng = xlSheet.Range(xlSheet.Cells(1, nFirstColumn), xlSheet.Cells(1, nLastColumn)) Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Oleg_123 at xuppa.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:43 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel Question > > Hello Group > Does anyone know how I can loop across columns from column C till the last > one ? I only know how to loop though numerics > > Oleg > > > Sub Numbers() > Dim a As Integer > Dim b As Integer > Dim c > > a = 7 > > Do While IsEmpty(Range("A" & a)) = False > b = 0 > > If Range("C" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("D" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("E" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("F" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("G" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("H" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("I" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("J" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("K" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("L" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("M" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("N" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("O" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > > If b >= 2 Then Range("A" & a).Font.ColorIndex = 3 > a = a + 1 > > Loop > > End Sub > > > ----------------------------------------- > Make Money and Find Love at Finally.com > http://www.finally.com/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed Aug 11 15:53:46 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:53:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Question about parsing a string intelligently Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE64@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> I'm sending you a worksheet offline. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Question about parsing a string intelligently An app I'm doing involves replacing paper forms with nifty software forms. However, some of the shortcuts the users take on the paper forms, while readily readable for humans, are a little more problematic from the p.o.v. of Access. Here's an example. The customer wants to buy 132 units per month, to be delivered in six shipments per month. On the paper form, the client writes this: Amount Material Price Delivery Date 132 ST/mo SHG Slab xxxxx Aug 2, 5, 9, 12, 16, 19 The order in question is for the next 6 months, so the user fills in six such rows, each of whose ultimate column contains a collection of dates as presented above. I would like the user to be able to enter the dates exactly as shown above, and then magically turn them into 6 detail rows apiece. Note that the year is not entered. In this case it's not a problem, we can assume the current year; but suppose there were 7 rows not 6. The last row would say something like Jan and I would have to magically comprehend that we've passsed December so the implication is that that row applies to 2005. My first version of the software didn't anticipate this at all. Instead it had a cute calendar popup thingie that allows you to select one date. As a result, my UI sucks compared to the old paper form (in this respect at least). As I recall, there is some simple function that receives a comma-delimited string and returns an array of its substrings, as it were. But I can't remember what that function is. I could write it, and probably have for some long-forgotten app, but IIRC it's now built into Access. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Something that could possibly be cool in this situation is a calendar control that does multi-select. Does anyone know of such a beast? There is at least one more wrinkle in this problem, located in column 1 of the example above. The notation means 132 short tons (i.e. American tons, 2000 lb) per month. Dividing evenly, that's 22 short tons per shipment. But the entries in this column totally depend on what the customer is used to: alternative entries might include: 132 MT/mo -- metric (i.e. civilized) tons 22 STs/shp -- the user did the dividing 264000 lb/mo -- oddball user measures everything in pounds not tons, short or metric :) Okay, this message has gone on long enough. TIA, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box Hello All, I thought this situation had passed. First, Thanks for all the feedback...for the most part...the conversion went fine. The problem is the file I am converting contains a field that is 'free text' and is often copied/pasted from other applications. In the 3rd record...in this field, there is a character that is interpreted as EOF...so my code stops without an error...but only the first 2 records are imported. Is there any way to test for this situation(2 EOFs or when there is data past EOF)? Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: "Pedro Janssen" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box >Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:10:22 +0200 > >Hello Mark, > >i use VBA on Reflection FTP to send a unix file as an ascii file to an >windows box. Then it is imported with no problems in access. If you >want the code, let me know, i will send you this next week from my >work. > >Pedro Janssen > > > > > >From: "Mark A Matte" > > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > > >solving > > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > >Subject: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box > > >Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:48:01 +0000 > > > > > >Hello All, > > > > > >I have an A97 db that imports a text file. The text file was on a >Windows > > >box...but now is generated and sent to a UNIX box. The UNIX > > >version of this text file has a CR or LF character after each > > >record...and access >sees > > >this as the end of the file. Any suggestions in using vba to > > >convert >this > > >file(or those characters) back to a Windows format/ > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Mark A. Matte > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to 'Dig Yourself Out of Debt' > > >from >MSN > > >Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx > > > > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 16:14:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:14:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26F@main2.marlow.com> I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 16:15:35 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:15:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB270@main2.marlow.com> Funny, I see it the opposite. It's easy to write, and just as easy to read. Putting useless prefixes, and drawn out variable names is hard to write, and in my book, harder to follow. Odd, a different perspective.....Ack, what to do! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I do agree with you John, completely on this one. I have had my fill following behind programmers who can and have cranked out code with gay abandon. A few, I am sure, work under the philosophy that it was hard enough to write so it should be hard to read. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 7:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 16:33:31 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:33:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB271@main2.marlow.com> ROTFLMAO! That was hilarious! A quote from that site: Invent your own hopelessly complex naming conventions, then berate everyone else for not following them. Hmmmmmmm......sounds exactly like Hungarian.........I guess everyone hopped on that wagon, cause they were tired of being berated! LOL Though what I liked the best was: Obscure film references : Use constant names like LancelotsFavouriteColour instead of blue and assign it hex value of 0x0204FB. The color looks identical to pure blue on the screen, and a maintenance programmer would have to work out 0204FB (or use some graphic tool) to know what it looks like. Only someone intimately familiar with Monty Python and the Holy Grail would know that Lancelot's favorite color was blue. If a maintenance programmer can't quote entire Monty Python movies from memory, he or she has no business being a programmer. So true, so true.....Monty Python is required viewing! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew your naming convention reasoning lead me to the following web page... http://mindprod.com/unmainnaming.html Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 16:35:43 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:35:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB272@main2.marlow.com> Pretty simple. Since ii represents a class, it would never be in the same coding as i: i=1 For i=1 to 100 ii=1 would not be valid...it's a class. Nor would set i= new InventoryItem Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions <So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 16:37:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:37:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB273@main2.marlow.com> Do you ever use rs for Recordset? Dim rs As Recordset Set rs = CurrentDB.OpenRecordset("tblSomething",dbOpenTable) Why use rs? Or do you use rsSomethingTable? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Andrew, The point is that Microsoft is using some kind of convention. 'ii = new Inventory Item' (as Drew suggested) isn't a naming convention for easily maintained code. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 1:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 17:01:48 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:01:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: I'm still tweaking it. I've had two apps from the start. A few things like the license expiring will stuff it royally, and any error that pops up a dialog. I'm on the heels of one, and testing to see whether I have plugged it, but only time will tell. Naturally, the error message received doesn't seem to have any relationship to what is actually going on! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:22 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 That's pretty much what I was saying. You have 2 apps, one to run the process, one to cycle the first. Is that setup still locking up? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I don't quite know what loop you mean. When the restart app opens, it writes a status flag to the registry. We could have used text files or some other means, but the registry usage is consistent with our other apps. The primary app is waiting to see that flag before it shuts down. Once it sees it, the primary app writes a flag of its own and issues a Quit. If the restart app fails to open or doesn't write the flag, then the primary app doesn't shut down, it resets its restart interval for an hour later and goes about its business. Meanwhile the restart app is waiting for the flag from the primary app. It has already captured the hWnd of the primary app window, so it starts checking to see if the window has finally closed. It doesn't attempt to restart the primary app until that window is closed. It tries for up to 5 minutes to fail when trying to return the WindowText of that window. If the window never closes, the restart app shuts itself down after writing a failure status to the registry and it retains the log text file it has been writing along the way. That means that even if the primary app closes but the Access window stays open for some reason, the restart is never attempted. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 A funny side not to my earlier post. I had a ton of windows open on my screen for the last few days....and about an hour ago, I started closing things. One of the items running, was that 'test' db I whipped up. It was still going. I thought that was odd, because it couldn't have ported that much information (into 97 .mdb). So I killed it. Took a look at the file size, and it was only 11 megs. I think that it was 'reporting' that it was working, but still had the same 'lock'. Can you take your code of the loop, and have it run it externally, so your code truly starts, and truly stops, before getting started again? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 No, I've checked that. It takes over 80,000 imports to make the db get up to 1.5 Gb without any compact on close (tested it). We do a compact on close to compact the file when it is shutdown and restarted. The restart app keeps checking to make sure the window has completely closed before it tries to restart the application in order to handle the compact on close delay. In the test situation, we're overwriting the same data repeatedly to the same folder, and the temp files are being deleted after import, so the space should be available for reuse. I have seen no indication that memory use is spiking or that is is even approaching the limits. The free space on the drive doesn't appear to be suffering, nor does the available resouces for other apps. Between restarts, the database bloats up to 50MB to 150MB, depending on how many zip files we use in the test. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 On 9 Aug 2004 at 9:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another > folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into > temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved > from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and > the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer > interval has elapsed. > If you are filling and clearing temporary tables hundreds of times, are you sure it's not a case of the database bloating - either until it hits the 2GB barrier or the workstation runs out of space on the working drive? -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 17:02:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:02:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB274@main2.marlow.com> You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 17:04:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:04:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB275@main2.marlow.com> LOL. Not trying to impress you with ii. In fact, I only put that in the post cause I knew it would rile you up....hmmmm...mission accomplished! LOL I do use it though. Simply because I'm not coding to impress anyone. I'm coding in a method that I find quick to develop, easy to understand, and simple to maintain. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Scott, You are correct, I am not saying that. I have seen some of the things that Drew does and I am VERY impressed with his skill as a programmer. I am not impressed with a variable name of II. There is more to being a good programmer than lines of code per day, or the coolness of your algorithm. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, You are exactly right. Best practices in no way imply that someone's code is worst practice, just not best practice. I think some members of the list take it that if you don't follow best practice, then you stink as a programmer. I don't think you are saying that. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 17:05:26 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:05:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 17:06:50 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:06:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB276@main2.marlow.com> I remember that thread. I said I used Goto's when needed. I honestly don't use them very often. I use them in errorhandling, and I use them in particular loops where I want a loop with various conditions. But again, I don't use them to jump code around for willy nilly reasons. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I remember talking about spaghetti code around a year or so ago. Wasn't it you who said that you used goto's liberally? Now I'm starting to sound like a troll. I'll stop. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Still don't see what point you are trying to make. There are people on the list (other then me) who have said they use i, j, k. Then there are people that use long variable definitions. Going either way is leaving the client a 50/50 shot as to having the next developer use the same methods. Do you understand what I am saying JC? If everyone used the same methods, and I was the only person in the world that was different, then I would have to change, because it doesn't make logic sense, and I would be hurting my clients. But I'm NOT the lone wolf on this. There IS NO world wide standard, that everyone else adheres too. There are camps. Camps of people that feel one way or the other. If you belong to Camp A, you can't possible write code to satisfy other Camp A folks, and Camp B, and Camp C, etc. If you stick to Camp A, your client has the same chance of getting a new developer from the right camp, no matter what camp you decide to align with. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using I Which is unfortunately the crux of the matter. It's all about "I". Programming is supposed to be about the client, THEIR software, THEIR maintenance costs if you are hit by a bus. NOT about "I find it easier to remember". When I come in to maintain your software I don't have your memories to work with! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 17:06:58 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:06:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Not to mention the job security it offers, since no one else can figure it out! LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:05 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions LOL. Not trying to impress you with ii. In fact, I only put that in the post cause I knew it would rile you up....hmmmm...mission accomplished! LOL I do use it though. Simply because I'm not coding to impress anyone. I'm coding in a method that I find quick to develop, easy to understand, and simple to maintain. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Scott, You are correct, I am not saying that. I have seen some of the things that Drew does and I am VERY impressed with his skill as a programmer. I am not impressed with a variable name of II. There is more to being a good programmer than lines of code per day, or the coolness of your algorithm. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, You are exactly right. Best practices in no way imply that someone's code is worst practice, just not best practice. I think some members of the list take it that if you don't follow best practice, then you stink as a programmer. I don't think you are saying that. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 11 17:26:42 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:26:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000601c47ff2$4a58e710$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> I don't see a naming convention so it would be a bit difficult to follow that. As far as the logic, I dare say I have figured out logic that would make your eyes bug out so no, no problem figuring out your logic. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually JC, i wouldn't be acceptable as a variable InventoryItem object. Two reasons. One, i already is set aside for counting integers (longs), and all objects have at least 2 characters in them. ii would be an InventoryItem, but if I had a larger collection class, of InventoryItems, then I would use iis. Hopefully you're not spitting blood yet.....though you may be foaming at the mouth. Here's an example of one of my Class Initialization events: Private Sub Class_Initialize() Dim cnn As ADODB.Connection Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset Dim strSQL As String Dim inv As Invoice Set Invs = New Collection Set rs = New ADODB.Recordset DBConnection cnn strSQL = "SELECT tblShoppingCarts.CartID, InvoiceNumber " & _ "FROM tblShoppingCarts INNER JOIN tblInvoiceNumbers ON tblShoppingCarts.CartID=tblInvoiceNumbers.CartID " & _ "WHERE RecordedInGlovia=False AND Closed=True AND PaymentResponse=1" rs.Open strSQL, cnn, adOpenKeyset, adLockReadOnly If rs.EOF = False Then rs.MoveFirst Do Until rs.EOF = True Set inv = New Invoice inv.CartID = rs.Fields(0).Value inv.InvoiceNumber = rs.Fields(1).Value Set inv.Connection = cnn inv.GetLineItems Invs.Add inv Set inv = Nothing rs.MoveNext Loop rs.Close Set rs = Nothing cnn.Close Set cnn = Nothing End Sub Now tell me that you would have a real problem following the logic and naming convention used above. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 11 17:29:33 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:29:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <00af01c47fe0$a9670780$6401a8c0@default> Message-ID: <000701c47ff2$b072c020$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> ROTFL. Agreed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions For i = 1 to NamingConventions.Count Delete Next ... ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 11 17:31:07 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:31:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c47ff2$e8564e80$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> ROTFLMAOBTC. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions My new email writing convention... New variables will be assigned in the future. This will save loads of keystrokes latter on. You will need to refer back to this and any new messages to understand the logic. Please make note now. Dim a as string = "John," Dim b as string = "I" Dim c as string = "love" Dim d as string = "it" Dim e as string = "when" Dim f as string = "you" Dim g as string = "get" Dim h as string = "on" Dim i as string = "a" Dim j as string = "roll." Dim k as string = "Scott Marcus" a b c d e f g h i j k Sorry, I could not resist! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 11 17:34:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:34:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string In-Reply-To: <01ee01c47fd6$36b66af0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <000901c47ff3$53457d60$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> It turns out that mid() is a keyword that accepts parameters and inserts a string inside another. mid(strToMerge, lngPosToInsert)= strToInsert Something like that John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string Well, this part is easy. I named the following function after several similars that I learned in dBASE, Clipper, etc. '----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- ' Procedure : Replicate ' DateTime : 8/11/2004 15:00 ' Author : Arthur Fuller ' Purpose : return a string consisting of the input char replicated to N length ' Notes : ' : ' Revisions : ' : '----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- ' Public Function Replicate(strChar, intCount) As String Dim strResult As String Dim i As Integer On Error GoTo Replicate_Error For i = 1 To intCount strResult = strResult + strChar Next Replicate = strResult On Error GoTo 0 Exit Function Replicate_Error: MsgBox "Error " & Err.Number & " (" & Err.Description & ")" & _ vbCrLf & _ "in procedure Replicate of Module aaLib" End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:33 PM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with spaces. I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific location. Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but I can't find the email. I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a simple: While Len(strPad) < mintLen strPad = strPad & "@" Wend But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ characters? JWC -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 11 17:47:36 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:47:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <01dd01c47fd0$6683b810$6601a8c0@rock> References: Message-ID: <411B2EA8.19121.20A0FE74@lexacorp.com.pg> On 11 Aug 2004 at 14:24, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Lots of code is produced using > copy/paste. If the declaration is right above the loop or whatever, it's > simple to grab it along with the loop itself, for use elsewhere. And the > compiler sorts it all out anyway, so what you're really talking about is > readability for humans not machines. From that p.o.v., why should you > learn about a variable until immediately before it is used? > That's fine as long as the variable is only used in the one loop. Wnen the same variable appears in several parts of the same procedure , it's a bugger trying to go back and find it's first appearance (Don't tell me I should break all my procedures down into smaller ones. ) -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 11 17:51:54 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:51:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDAC@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <411B2FAA.31325.20A4EE44@lexacorp.com.pg> On 11 Aug 2004 at 13:33, Colby, John wrote: > I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific > location. Use the Mid() statement (as opposed to the function) > But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ > characters? string(40,"@") -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 11 17:55:09 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:55:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB2@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <411B306D.5258.20A7E7FC@lexacorp.com.pg> On 11 Aug 2004 at 14:48, Colby, John wrote: > Cool, now I need to know how to place a string of len N at position O in > another string. > Mid(strBigString,O) = strMySubString You don't need to worry about the len N. -- Stuart From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 11 19:16:48 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:16:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That is FUNNY....I nearly fell off my chair and everyone came to see what was all the commotion about. It is made all the more funny because I have actually seen this before, in reality, though many years ago. :-) Honestly, it was not Drew, as I said it was years ago. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew your naming convention reasoning lead me to the following web page... http://mindprod.com/unmainnaming.html Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Wed Aug 11 19:37:09 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:07:09 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7BA@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Wed Aug 11 19:40:05 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:10:05 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7BB@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Halleluiah - Thankyou. It really amazes me how some become so ridiculously headstrong about certain topics. Get outside, enjoy the sunshine, there's a whole world out there. As hard as it is to believe - coding isn't everything. -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 4:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions A) Would you kindly tone down the vitriol? My eyes start to hurt when you start yelling :) B) MS dropped the notion of Hungarian prefixes. That is quite a different issue than "should Inventory Item be represented by II?" A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Aug 11 19:51:34 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:51:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified Message-ID: <032301c48006$847dc2d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? TIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 11 20:57:42 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:57:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified In-Reply-To: <032301c48006$847dc2d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <411B5B36.23066.214F0701@lexacorp.com.pg> On 11 Aug 2004 at 17:51, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? > dteLastModified = FileDateTime(myFilename) -- Stuart From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 11 22:54:10 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:54:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] copying a table from every database in a folderinto another database Message-ID: I have a folder that contains from 90 - 110 Monarch generated Access databases with one non Msys type table each, each table is uniquely named the same as the database. How can I append a table from each database into another Access database? I can user fs to loop through the folder and get the table names. Could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks for any assistance, Jim From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 11 23:03:54 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:03:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] copying a table from every database in a folderinto another database In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <411B78CA.12825.21C29363@lexacorp.com.pg> On 11 Aug 2004 at 22:54, JMoss wrote: > I have a folder that contains from 90 - 110 Monarch generated Access > databases with one non Msys type table each, each table is uniquely named > the same as the database. How can I append a table from each database into > another Access database? I can user fs to loop through the folder and get > the table names. Could someone point me in the right direction? > Something like this? Function GetTables(Directory As String) As Long Dim strFilename As String DIim strTablename as String ChDir Directory strFilename = Dir$("*.mdb") strTablename = Left$(strFilename, Len(strFilename) - 4) While strFilename > "" DoCmd.TransferDatabase acImport, , strFilename, acTable, _ strTablename, strTablename strFilename = Dir$() Wend End Function -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 11 23:12:41 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:12:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] copying a table from every database in a folderinto another database In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <411B7AD9.26187.21CA9C07@lexacorp.com.pg> On 11 Aug 2004 at 22:54, JMoss wrote: > the same as the database. How can I append a table from each database into > another Access database? Just read this again. Do you mean you want to append all of the other tables into one. If so, you;ll need to add another couple of lines to my previous post. Include this before the "strFIlename = Dir$()" Currentdb.Execute "Insert into myTable select * from " & strTablename DoCmd.DeleteObject acTable, strFilename -- Stuart From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 11 23:35:11 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 23:35:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] copying a table from every database in a folder into another database In-Reply-To: <411B7AD9.26187.21CA9C07@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, Thanks for the speedy reply. The append to a single table is the next step after some massaging and the tables are in three different layouts: AP, AR and ONH. I have to append three columns to each table and parse the table name into parts for source, ERP, and location. Table name is like 11iARAgingC06, where the first three or four characters are for ERP type, ie Oracle 11i or 1103, after that comes either ARAging, APAging, or OnHold, and following that is a three digit location code. I just pulled the zipped Monarch folder off my thumb drive and am going to try it out. Once again, Thanks Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] copying a table from every database in afolderinto another database On 11 Aug 2004 at 22:54, JMoss wrote: > the same as the database. How can I append a table from each database into > another Access database? Just read this again. Do you mean you want to append all of the other tables into one. If so, you;ll need to add another couple of lines to my previous post. Include this before the "strFIlename = Dir$()" Currentdb.Execute "Insert into myTable select * from " & strTablename DoCmd.DeleteObject acTable, strFilename -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 11 23:53:01 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:53:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] copying a table from every database in a folderinto another database In-Reply-To: <411B7AD9.26187.21CA9C07@lexacorp.com.pg> References: Message-ID: <411B844D.25787.21EF8B79@lexacorp.com.pg> On 12 Aug 2004 at 14:12, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > DoCmd.DeleteObject acTable, strFilename Obviously that should have been ... strTablename. D*mned computers, why can't they tell what I mean :-) -- Stuart From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 12 00:12:42 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:12:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] copying a table from every database ina folderinto another database In-Reply-To: <411B844D.25787.21EF8B79@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: When kids start being born with Bluetooth connectors at the brain stem... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] copying a table from every database ina folderinto another database On 12 Aug 2004 at 14:12, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > DoCmd.DeleteObject acTable, strFilename Obviously that should have been ... strTablename. D*mned computers, why can't they tell what I mean :-) -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu Aug 12 03:14:41 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:14:41 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified Message-ID: <32458262.1092298481507.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Rocky, If you set a reference to Microsoft Scripting Runtime then add the following code: Dim fsys As New FileSystemObject Dim dtProductsCSV As Date Dim fProductsCSV As Object Set fProductsCSV = fsys.GetFile(FilePath & FileName) dtProductsCSV = fProductsCSV.DateLastModified Message date : Aug 12 2004, 01:53 AM >From : "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To : AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Date Modified Dear List: Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? TIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 06:17:29 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:17:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I thought you might enjoy that website. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions ROTFLMAO! That was hilarious! A quote from that site: Invent your own hopelessly complex naming conventions, then berate everyone else for not following them. Hmmmmmmm......sounds exactly like Hungarian.........I guess everyone hopped on that wagon, cause they were tired of being berated! LOL Though what I liked the best was: Obscure film references : Use constant names like LancelotsFavouriteColour instead of blue and assign it hex value of 0x0204FB. The color looks identical to pure blue on the screen, and a maintenance programmer would have to work out 0204FB (or use some graphic tool) to know what it looks like. Only someone intimately familiar with Monty Python and the Holy Grail would know that Lancelot's favorite color was blue. If a maintenance programmer can't quote entire Monty Python movies from memory, he or she has no business being a programmer. So true, so true.....Monty Python is required viewing! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew your naming convention reasoning lead me to the following web page... http://mindprod.com/unmainnaming.html Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 06:21:22 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:21:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: In production code, I do not use just rs for a variable to hold a recordset. I usually do something like... dim rsEmployees as Recordset If I'm writing a test function, I may use rs. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Do you ever use rs for Recordset? Dim rs As Recordset Set rs = CurrentDB.OpenRecordset("tblSomething",dbOpenTable) Why use rs? Or do you use rsSomethingTable? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Andrew, The point is that Microsoft is using some kind of convention. 'ii = new Inventory Item' (as Drew suggested) isn't a naming convention for easily maintained code. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 1:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 06:31:50 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:31:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 06:35:39 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:35:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Programming conventions... was Naming Conventions Message-ID: Why not use an Exit statement? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:07 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I remember that thread. I said I used Goto's when needed. I honestly don't use them very often. I use them in errorhandling, and I use them in particular loops where I want a loop with various conditions. But again, I don't use them to jump code around for willy nilly reasons. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I remember talking about spaghetti code around a year or so ago. Wasn't it you who said that you used goto's liberally? Now I'm starting to sound like a troll. I'll stop. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Still don't see what point you are trying to make. There are people on the list (other then me) who have said they use i, j, k. Then there are people that use long variable definitions. Going either way is leaving the client a 50/50 shot as to having the next developer use the same methods. Do you understand what I am saying JC? If everyone used the same methods, and I was the only person in the world that was different, then I would have to change, because it doesn't make logic sense, and I would be hurting my clients. But I'm NOT the lone wolf on this. There IS NO world wide standard, that everyone else adheres too. There are camps. Camps of people that feel one way or the other. If you belong to Camp A, you can't possible write code to satisfy other Camp A folks, and Camp B, and Camp C, etc. If you stick to Camp A, your client has the same chance of getting a new developer from the right camp, no matter what camp you decide to align with. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using I Which is unfortunately the crux of the matter. It's all about "I". Programming is supposed to be about the client, THEIR software, THEIR maintenance costs if you are hit by a bus. NOT about "I find it easier to remember". When I come in to maintain your software I don't have your memories to work with! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 09:09:55 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:09:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB279@main2.marlow.com> Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 09:11:08 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:11:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB27A@main2.marlow.com> Actually, with a lot of my projects, the naming convention would be the least of anyone's worries..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Not to mention the job security it offers, since no one else can figure it out! LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:05 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions LOL. Not trying to impress you with ii. In fact, I only put that in the post cause I knew it would rile you up....hmmmm...mission accomplished! LOL I do use it though. Simply because I'm not coding to impress anyone. I'm coding in a method that I find quick to develop, easy to understand, and simple to maintain. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Scott, You are correct, I am not saying that. I have seen some of the things that Drew does and I am VERY impressed with his skill as a programmer. I am not impressed with a variable name of II. There is more to being a good programmer than lines of code per day, or the coolness of your algorithm. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, You are exactly right. Best practices in no way imply that someone's code is worst practice, just not best practice. I think some members of the list take it that if you don't follow best practice, then you stink as a programmer. I don't think you are saying that. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 09:14:16 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:14:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB27B@main2.marlow.com> Of course it doesn't....that would make life too easy! LOL. I love getting error messages that are so vague they let to spin your wheels for a few days before you accidentally trip over the solution! Gotta love it! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm still tweaking it. I've had two apps from the start. A few things like the license expiring will stuff it royally, and any error that pops up a dialog. I'm on the heels of one, and testing to see whether I have plugged it, but only time will tell. Naturally, the error message received doesn't seem to have any relationship to what is actually going on! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:22 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 That's pretty much what I was saying. You have 2 apps, one to run the process, one to cycle the first. Is that setup still locking up? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I don't quite know what loop you mean. When the restart app opens, it writes a status flag to the registry. We could have used text files or some other means, but the registry usage is consistent with our other apps. The primary app is waiting to see that flag before it shuts down. Once it sees it, the primary app writes a flag of its own and issues a Quit. If the restart app fails to open or doesn't write the flag, then the primary app doesn't shut down, it resets its restart interval for an hour later and goes about its business. Meanwhile the restart app is waiting for the flag from the primary app. It has already captured the hWnd of the primary app window, so it starts checking to see if the window has finally closed. It doesn't attempt to restart the primary app until that window is closed. It tries for up to 5 minutes to fail when trying to return the WindowText of that window. If the window never closes, the restart app shuts itself down after writing a failure status to the registry and it retains the log text file it has been writing along the way. That means that even if the primary app closes but the Access window stays open for some reason, the restart is never attempted. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 A funny side not to my earlier post. I had a ton of windows open on my screen for the last few days....and about an hour ago, I started closing things. One of the items running, was that 'test' db I whipped up. It was still going. I thought that was odd, because it couldn't have ported that much information (into 97 .mdb). So I killed it. Took a look at the file size, and it was only 11 megs. I think that it was 'reporting' that it was working, but still had the same 'lock'. Can you take your code of the loop, and have it run it externally, so your code truly starts, and truly stops, before getting started again? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 No, I've checked that. It takes over 80,000 imports to make the db get up to 1.5 Gb without any compact on close (tested it). We do a compact on close to compact the file when it is shutdown and restarted. The restart app keeps checking to make sure the window has completely closed before it tries to restart the application in order to handle the compact on close delay. In the test situation, we're overwriting the same data repeatedly to the same folder, and the temp files are being deleted after import, so the space should be available for reuse. I have seen no indication that memory use is spiking or that is is even approaching the limits. The free space on the drive doesn't appear to be suffering, nor does the available resouces for other apps. Between restarts, the database bloats up to 50MB to 150MB, depending on how many zip files we use in the test. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 On 9 Aug 2004 at 9:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another > folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into > temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved > from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and > the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer > interval has elapsed. > If you are filling and clearing temporary tables hundreds of times, are you sure it's not a case of the database bloating - either until it hits the 2GB barrier or the workstation runs out of space on the working drive? -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 09:25:26 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:25:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Programming conventions... was Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB27C@main2.marlow.com> I do most of the time. It just depends on how the logic is running. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programming conventions... was Naming Conventions Why not use an Exit statement? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:07 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I remember that thread. I said I used Goto's when needed. I honestly don't use them very often. I use them in errorhandling, and I use them in particular loops where I want a loop with various conditions. But again, I don't use them to jump code around for willy nilly reasons. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I remember talking about spaghetti code around a year or so ago. Wasn't it you who said that you used goto's liberally? Now I'm starting to sound like a troll. I'll stop. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Still don't see what point you are trying to make. There are people on the list (other then me) who have said they use i, j, k. Then there are people that use long variable definitions. Going either way is leaving the client a 50/50 shot as to having the next developer use the same methods. Do you understand what I am saying JC? If everyone used the same methods, and I was the only person in the world that was different, then I would have to change, because it doesn't make logic sense, and I would be hurting my clients. But I'm NOT the lone wolf on this. There IS NO world wide standard, that everyone else adheres too. There are camps. Camps of people that feel one way or the other. If you belong to Camp A, you can't possible write code to satisfy other Camp A folks, and Camp B, and Camp C, etc. If you stick to Camp A, your client has the same chance of getting a new developer from the right camp, no matter what camp you decide to align with. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using I Which is unfortunately the crux of the matter. It's all about "I". Programming is supposed to be about the client, THEIR software, THEIR maintenance costs if you are hit by a bus. NOT about "I find it easier to remember". When I come in to maintain your software I don't have your memories to work with! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 12 09:56:34 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:56:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <000801c47ff2$e8564e80$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <030601c4807c$8f9d3080$6601a8c0@rock> Back in the dark ages of C/PM and dBASE II, I met a young guy who loved macros so much that he evolved a programming style very similar to your suggested style. Macros in the dBASE context worked like this: store something in a string (i.e. a command name or a column name, etc.), then preface it with an ampersand, which would tell dBASE to interpret the word and use the result. Kind of like pointers to functions, for those conversant with C. Use Customers List CompanyName, Phone U = "use" C = "Customers" L = "List" CNP = "CompanyName, Phone" &U &C &L &CNP This guy's main reason was his inability to type quickly. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions ROTFLMAOBTC. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions My new email writing convention... New variables will be assigned in the future. This will save loads of keystrokes latter on. You will need to refer back to this and any new messages to understand the logic. Please make note now. Dim a as string = "John," Dim b as string = "I" Dim c as string = "love" Dim d as string = "it" Dim e as string = "when" Dim f as string = "you" Dim g as string = "get" Dim h as string = "on" Dim i as string = "a" Dim j as string = "roll." Dim k as string = "Scott Marcus" a b c d e f g h i j k Sorry, I could not resist! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 12 10:00:02 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:00:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified In-Reply-To: <32458262.1092298481507.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <030701c4807d$0b760dd0$6601a8c0@rock> That will work where the scripting runtime is installed, but IME almost every company forbids its installation because it is so potentially dangerous. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Modified Rocky, If you set a reference to Microsoft Scripting Runtime then add the following code: Dim fsys As New FileSystemObject Dim dtProductsCSV As Date Dim fProductsCSV As Object Set fProductsCSV = fsys.GetFile(FilePath & FileName) dtProductsCSV = fProductsCSV.DateLastModified Message date : Aug 12 2004, 01:53 AM >From : "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To : AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Date Modified Dear List: Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? TIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu Aug 12 10:06:00 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:06:00 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified Message-ID: <2637826.1092323160140.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Never knew about this, what are the potential dangers ? Message date : Aug 12 2004, 04:04 PM >From : "Arthur Fuller" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Date Modified That will work where the scripting runtime is installed, but IME almost every company forbids its installation because it is so potentially dangerous. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Modified Rocky, If you set a reference to Microsoft Scripting Runtime then add the following code: Dim fsys As New FileSystemObject Dim dtProductsCSV As Date Dim fProductsCSV As Object Set fProductsCSV = fsys.GetFile(FilePath & FileName) dtProductsCSV = fProductsCSV.DateLastModified Message date : Aug 12 2004, 01:53 AM >From : "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To : AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Date Modified Dear List: Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? TIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 10:10:10 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:10:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: By the time he remembers all that(down the road), he could type it out. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:57 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Back in the dark ages of C/PM and dBASE II, I met a young guy who loved macros so much that he evolved a programming style very similar to your suggested style. Macros in the dBASE context worked like this: store something in a string (i.e. a command name or a column name, etc.), then preface it with an ampersand, which would tell dBASE to interpret the word and use the result. Kind of like pointers to functions, for those conversant with C. Use Customers List CompanyName, Phone U = "use" C = "Customers" L = "List" CNP = "CompanyName, Phone" &U &C &L &CNP This guy's main reason was his inability to type quickly. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions ROTFLMAOBTC. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions My new email writing convention... New variables will be assigned in the future. This will save loads of keystrokes latter on. You will need to refer back to this and any new messages to understand the logic. Please make note now. Dim a as string = "John," Dim b as string = "I" Dim c as string = "love" Dim d as string = "it" Dim e as string = "when" Dim f as string = "you" Dim g as string = "get" Dim h as string = "on" Dim i as string = "a" Dim j as string = "roll." Dim k as string = "Scott Marcus" a b c d e f g h i j k Sorry, I could not resist! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 12 10:10:47 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:10:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB27B@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <030901c4807e$8bf2db40$6601a8c0@rock> I must be on a nostalgia kick today. The first compiler I learned to use was from Digital Research and was called CB-80. It was a BASIC compiler. I still remember my favourite error message: "An error has been detected for which there is no error message." Stuff like that makes MS-Help look eloquent. See? It's all a question of context. I remember some C/PM programs that actually expected their users to be able to enter Hex numbers! One night long ago, I had a dream in which I FINALLY figured out how to translate decimal into hex and vice-versa, in my head. My then-wife told me about it next morning. Apparently, I awoke suddenly, sat bolt upright and said, "Yes! 16 times 4 is 64! Now I get it!" and promptly fell back asleep. She left me shortly thereafter. A. P.S. This has happened more than once. I have a dream that solves some programming problem, and soon afterwards my significant woman departs :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:14 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Of course it doesn't....that would make life too easy! LOL. I love getting error messages that are so vague they let to spin your wheels for a few days before you accidentally trip over the solution! Gotta love it! Drew From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 10:11:08 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:11:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB27E@main2.marlow.com> About 5 years (give or take a bit, depending on what system we are talking about). Just out of curiousity, what does this prove? When someone with this vast programming experience has a networking issue, shouldn't they have all that experience working with computers, to just figure out what is wrong? Should I ask them how long they have been using computers for? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 12 10:23:06 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:23:06 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified In-Reply-To: <2637826.1092323160140.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <411C17F9.16406.617E5F@lexacorp.com.pg> On 12 Aug 2004 at 17:06, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >> That will work where the scripting runtime is installed, but IME almost >> every company forbids its installation because it is so potentially >> dangerous. > Never knew about this, what are the potential dangers ? Viruses/trojans commonly use it. I always disable it on all my client's machines. Talking of scripting, if anyone is familiar with AutoIt, I've just discovered that a new Version 3 was released earlier this year. It's a huge improvement over v2. See http://www.hiddensoft.com/autoit3/ For those who aren't familiar with it: "AutoIt v3 is an opensource BASIC-like scripting language designed for automating the Windows GUI. It uses a combination of simulated keystrokes, mouse movement and window/control manipulation in order to automate tasks in a way not possible or reliable with other languages (e.g. VBScript and SendKeys). AutoIt was initially designed for PC "roll out" situations to configure thousands of PCs, but with the arrival of v3 it is also well suited to performing home automation and the scripting of repetitive tasks. AutoIt can: * Provide a general-purpose scripting language * Execute Windows and DOS executables * Simulate key-strokes (supports most keyboard layouts) * Simulate mouse movements and clicks * Move, resize and manipulate windows * Interact directly with "controls" on a window (set/get text from edit controls, check boxes and radio buttons, select items in drop-down lists, etc.) * Work with the clipboard to cut/paste text items * Work with the registry Unlike AutoIt v2, the new v3 language has a much more standard syntax - similar to VBScript and BASIC - and now supports complex expressions, user functions, looping and everything else that veteran scripters would expect." Note, you can also compile AutoIt scripts into very tight standalone applications. A great little tool. -- Stuart From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 10:25:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:25:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB27F@main2.marlow.com> Maybe the signigicant women in your life are just holding you back.... LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:11 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I must be on a nostalgia kick today. The first compiler I learned to use was from Digital Research and was called CB-80. It was a BASIC compiler. I still remember my favourite error message: "An error has been detected for which there is no error message." Stuff like that makes MS-Help look eloquent. See? It's all a question of context. I remember some C/PM programs that actually expected their users to be able to enter Hex numbers! One night long ago, I had a dream in which I FINALLY figured out how to translate decimal into hex and vice-versa, in my head. My then-wife told me about it next morning. Apparently, I awoke suddenly, sat bolt upright and said, "Yes! 16 times 4 is 64! Now I get it!" and promptly fell back asleep. She left me shortly thereafter. A. P.S. This has happened more than once. I have a dream that solves some programming problem, and soon afterwards my significant woman departs :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:14 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Of course it doesn't....that would make life too easy! LOL. I love getting error messages that are so vague they let to spin your wheels for a few days before you accidentally trip over the solution! Gotta love it! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 12 10:34:19 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:34:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <411C1A9B.28459.6BC674@lexacorp.com.pg> Charlotte, Just had a problem with another program and came across a freeware utility that may help you track down what is happening with your app. Process Explorer for SysInternals http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/procexp.shtml Tells you everything you want to know about what resources etc a process is using. -- Stuart From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Thu Aug 12 10:35:41 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:35:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: Can I make these changes the instant the User enters a text box, please? If Not IsNull([txtFun]) Then Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbRed Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbYellow Else Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbWhite Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbBlack End If I mean as he types "y" for "yes", or anything at all? The above doesn't work till the record changes. Cheers paul From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 10:37:18 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:37:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 10:41:26 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:41:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I'm just saying that you probably were not programming when no one used naming conventions. Not a dig at your experience/ability at all. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions About 5 years (give or take a bit, depending on what system we are talking about). Just out of curiousity, what does this prove? When someone with this vast programming experience has a networking issue, shouldn't they have all that experience working with computers, to just figure out what is wrong? Should I ask them how long they have been using computers for? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu Aug 12 10:54:20 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:54:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: After setting KeyPreview to True for the form, I think you want to look at the KeyPress event for the control. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Can I make these changes the instant the User enters a text box, please? If Not IsNull([txtFun]) Then Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbRed Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbYellow Else Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbWhite Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbBlack End If I mean as he types "y" for "yes", or anything at all? The above doesn't work till the record changes. Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 12 10:55:50 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:55:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified In-Reply-To: <2637826.1092323160140.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <031b01c48084$d807e150$6601a8c0@rock> If the scripting run-time is installed, Outlook and Oexpress become major points of weakness. Should the hapless user open an attachment, all hell could break loose. I personally have the scripting stuff installed, but at least in theory I know what I'm doing -- having shot myself in the foot numerous times, I'm now an alleged expert! But I wish I knew 1/10 as much about hardware as I do about software. The simplest hardware + network issues can baffle me for days and weeks. I have had the ostensible luxury of working in environments where other people handled all that stuff, and I concentrated on the software apps. As a result, I'm appallingly ignorant about hardware and network stuff. There are abundant examples of truly dangerous scripts. Assuming you're safely backed up, you could run a few on your own machine to see the potential. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified Never knew about this, what are the potential dangers ? From JColby at dispec.com Thu Aug 12 10:56:44 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:56:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB8@DISABILITYINS01> Use the OnEnter event of the text box. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Can I make these changes the instant the User enters a text box, please? If Not IsNull([txtFun]) Then Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbRed Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbYellow Else Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbWhite Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbBlack End If I mean as he types "y" for "yes", or anything at all? The above doesn't work till the record changes. Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 12 10:57:08 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:57:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <031c01c48085$05cbbb20$6601a8c0@rock> Any second JC will respond with a message suggesting that you use a class for this! Write it once, use it everywhere. JC, where are you? A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Can I make these changes the instant the User enters a text box, please? If Not IsNull([txtFun]) Then Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbRed Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbYellow Else Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbWhite Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbBlack End If I mean as he types "y" for "yes", or anything at all? The above doesn't work till the record changes. Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Thu Aug 12 10:57:09 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040812155709.31880.qmail@web20426.mail.yahoo.com> If you want to change the properties as soon as the user enters the field then you have to put that code in the text box's On Got Focus event. Paul Rodgers wrote: Can I make these changes the instant the User enters a text box, please? If Not IsNull([txtFun]) Then Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbRed Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbYellow Else Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbWhite Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbBlack End If I mean as he types "y" for "yes", or anything at all? The above doesn't work till the record changes. Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 10:58:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:58:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB282@main2.marlow.com> Actually, when I was a kid, I did program in Basic.....good ol' DOS. No naming convention at all, no classes, just ABC, and XYZ. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just saying that you probably were not programming when no one used naming conventions. Not a dig at your experience/ability at all. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions About 5 years (give or take a bit, depending on what system we are talking about). Just out of curiousity, what does this prove? When someone with this vast programming experience has a networking issue, shouldn't they have all that experience working with computers, to just figure out what is wrong? Should I ask them how long they have been using computers for? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Thu Aug 12 11:00:24 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:00:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1A4@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> If you're using A2K or higher, use Conditional Formatting. It's easy to set up and it's instantaneous. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Can I make these changes the instant the User enters a text box, please? If Not IsNull([txtFun]) Then Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbRed Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbYellow Else Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbWhite Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbBlack End If I mean as he types "y" for "yes", or anything at all? The above doesn't work till the record changes. Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 11:01:18 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:01:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB283@main2.marlow.com> Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 11:06:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:06:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB284@main2.marlow.com> I do have a copy of the I LOVE YOU virus, if anyone want's to see how dangerous a VBScript can be....LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified If the scripting run-time is installed, Outlook and Oexpress become major points of weakness. Should the hapless user open an attachment, all hell could break loose. I personally have the scripting stuff installed, but at least in theory I know what I'm doing -- having shot myself in the foot numerous times, I'm now an alleged expert! But I wish I knew 1/10 as much about hardware as I do about software. The simplest hardware + network issues can baffle me for days and weeks. I have had the ostensible luxury of working in environments where other people handled all that stuff, and I concentrated on the software apps. As a result, I'm appallingly ignorant about hardware and network stuff. There are abundant examples of truly dangerous scripts. Assuming you're safely backed up, you could run a few on your own machine to see the potential. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified Never knew about this, what are the potential dangers ? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Thu Aug 12 11:21:23 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:21:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB9@DISABILITYINS01> I'll be sending the FBI around to your house. They are looking for a virus writer somewhere down in Texas. ;-) -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:06 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified I do have a copy of the I LOVE YOU virus, if anyone want's to see how dangerous a VBScript can be....LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified If the scripting run-time is installed, Outlook and Oexpress become major points of weakness. Should the hapless user open an attachment, all hell could break loose. I personally have the scripting stuff installed, but at least in theory I know what I'm doing -- having shot myself in the foot numerous times, I'm now an alleged expert! But I wish I knew 1/10 as much about hardware as I do about software. The simplest hardware + network issues can baffle me for days and weeks. I have had the ostensible luxury of working in environments where other people handled all that stuff, and I concentrated on the software apps. As a result, I'm appallingly ignorant about hardware and network stuff. There are abundant examples of truly dangerous scripts. Assuming you're safely backed up, you could run a few on your own machine to see the potential. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified Never knew about this, what are the potential dangers ? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 12 11:22:02 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:22:02 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15234531463.20040812182202@cactus.dk> Hi Paul To completely confuse you, Change (your own suggestion) is the event to pick for this. It works also for a paste of text by the user. Also, you could lighten your code a bit and use the Text property: With Me!txtFun If Len(.Text) > 0 Then .BackColor = vbRed .ForeColor = vbYellow Else .BackColor = vbWhite .ForeColor = vbBlack End If End With Or use two variables for the colours. /gustav > Can I make these changes the instant the User enters a text box, please? > If Not IsNull([txtFun]) Then > Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbRed > Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbYellow > Else > Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbWhite > Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbBlack > End If > I mean as he types "y" for "yes", or anything at all? The above doesn't work > till the record changes. From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 11:25:27 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:25:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: The Dim has nothing to do with it. It's how it is used. What if ii was 'InventoryID' now ii and i are the same type (according to what you have said) both are long integers. Now when I do some coding in that loop, I flinch and type ii when it should have been i. Yet everything including a compile seems fine.... Why am I even trying to make up an error? If I could ensure no errors were ever made(at whatever stage...development, debug, maintenance), then I wouldn't use any conventions at all, just pure speed to market and speed of the application to drive my coding whims. The 'how does this make less mistakes' to your question depends on the circumstance. You either see the benefit or you don't. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Thu Aug 12 11:26:15 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:26:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDBA@DISABILITYINS01> >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 11:45:47 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:45:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB286@main2.marlow.com> No, would never use ii for a long, only i,j,k... And i,j,k would never be for an object. Of course, if ii was an InventoryItem, then ii.ID would be the Inventory ID value. No need for another variable. No one has commented on my 'With' statement question either. If the prefix is supposed to prevent a maintenance programmer from having to go look at the dimensioning of the variable, then wouldn't With be 'bad practice', because you'd have to look for the With statement to 'know' what object is the base object. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions The Dim has nothing to do with it. It's how it is used. What if ii was 'InventoryID' now ii and i are the same type (according to what you have said) both are long integers. Now when I do some coding in that loop, I flinch and type ii when it should have been i. Yet everything including a compile seems fine.... Why am I even trying to make up an error? If I could ensure no errors were ever made(at whatever stage...development, debug, maintenance), then I wouldn't use any conventions at all, just pure speed to market and speed of the application to drive my coding whims. The 'how does this make less mistakes' to your question depends on the circumstance. You either see the benefit or you don't. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 11:48:29 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:48:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB287@main2.marlow.com> True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 12:14:11 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:14:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <<...should be reconsidered sometimes. Maybe you should reconsider. Again you imply that we are wrong. We are only pointing out what is considered a better way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 12 12:14:09 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:14:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA Access Obfuscation Contest In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB283@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <032e01c4808f$c7e72730$6601a8c0@rock> The Naming Conventions thread has been most interesting and has prompted me to suggest an annual contest a la the classic DDJ C-Obfuscation contest. The point is to write a geruinely incomprehensible routine that does something useful. It would only make sense if we confined ourselves to say 5 candidate routines, Access-specific of course. Contributors could then submit a "solution" to any of the 5 problems. (A double-prize might be considered for code that does not even make it apparent which problem it is solving!) Step 1 is to gather the list of problems. I venture the following merely as a starting point. I haven't given any of them a lot of consideration, they are nothing more than something to shoot at, if you will. Somehow let's settle on 5 problems worth obfuscating. After that, obfuscation will be, heh heh, obvious. Herewith, 5 problems. Please feel free to shoot them down as insignificant or not worth writing etc. I would love to have the list come up with 5 genuinely interesting problems, on which to base the obfuscated solutions. None of them would be immediately useful in anyone's current project, but I think it would be fun to see the variants that contestants come up with. Five initial examples. Fire at will. Please come up with more interesting problems! 1. For every open form for every textbox make it read-only change the colours 2. Given tables Parent and Child, delete every third Parent record and all her children in the Child table. 3. Manufacture some test data in 4 tables: parent, child1, child2, and child2's child. The routine accepts the number of parents to create and the maximum number of child rows to create. Then it randomly adds kids (and grandkids) to tables 2, 3 and 4 for each parent, using the specified maximum. 4. Delete every file from every directory to which the user has access, while presenting warm and fuzzy messages. (Don't really delete them, just print a message suggesting that could have. Option: Tell them you HAVE deleted them, and offer recovery for $.05 a file. Bring up PayPal to complete the transaction. 5. Create an email to every person in your Outlook Contacts folder, announcing that your surgery was unsuccessful and you are now a refridgerator salesperson in Resolute Bay. Five stupid problems, I admit. Let's come up with five smart problems and then obfuscate their solutions! (At the least, each problem could become an issue of our newsletter, including the various solutions sent in by listers.) One obvious obfuscation technique is purposeful misuse of Hungarian. Dim strValue as Long ' the number of striations per meter of a given cave wall. Dim datLast as Currency ' how much you paid the hooker for your last "date". Dim booLevel as Byte ' scare factor in a horror movie focus group. Dim booLevel as Long ' WWE measurement as reported by microphones. Dim cboAvail as Boolean ' is this jazz musician available for work in a combo? But there are many more. Table names offer abundant opportunities to play. You get the idea, I hope.... Arthur From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 12 12:28:03 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:28:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Stupid SQL Tricks Message-ID: <033501c48091$b8fcb940$6601a8c0@rock> An Access table called StupidSQLTricks contains these columns: PK AutoNumber PK Select Text >From Text Where Text A row in this table contains: PK: 1 Select: * From: Customers Where: PK=1 A query on this table exists: SELECT StupidSQLTricks.PK, StupidSQLTricks.[Select], StupidSQLTricks.From, StupidSQLTricks.Where, "SELECT " & [Select] & " FROM " & [From] & " WHERE " & [Where] AS [SQL] FROM StupidSQLTricks WHERE (((StupidSQLTricks.PK)=1)); The output of the last column (SQL) is: SELECT * FROM Customers WHERE CustomerID='123' ------------------ This probably means that you could retrieve such a virtual column and EVAL() it. But I haven't checked that out yet. From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 12:39:56 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:39:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA AccessObfuscation Contest Message-ID: How about calculating when a year is a leap year? Public Function bolIsYear366DaysThereforeALeapYear(ByVal _ lngYearYouWantToCheck As Long) As Boolean Dim bolTrueOrFalseValue As Boolean If DateDiff("d", DateSerial(lngYearYouWantToCheck, 1, 1), _ DateSerial(lngYearYouWantToCheck, 12, 31)) = 365 Then bolTrueOrFalseValue = True Else bolTrueOrFalseValue = False End If bolIsYear366DaysThereforeALeapYear = bolTrueOrFalseValue End Function --OR-- Public Function LeapYear(ByVal i As Long) As Boolean Dim ly As Boolean If DateDiff("d", DateSerial(i, 1, 1), _ DateSerial(i, 12, 31)) = 365 Then ly = True Else ly = False End If LeapYear = ly End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA AccessObfuscation Contest The Naming Conventions thread has been most interesting and has prompted me to suggest an annual contest a la the classic DDJ C-Obfuscation contest. The point is to write a geruinely incomprehensible routine that does something useful. It would only make sense if we confined ourselves to say 5 candidate routines, Access-specific of course. Contributors could then submit a "solution" to any of the 5 problems. (A double-prize might be considered for code that does not even make it apparent which problem it is solving!) Step 1 is to gather the list of problems. I venture the following merely as a starting point. I haven't given any of them a lot of consideration, they are nothing more than something to shoot at, if you will. Somehow let's settle on 5 problems worth obfuscating. After that, obfuscation will be, heh heh, obvious. Herewith, 5 problems. Please feel free to shoot them down as insignificant or not worth writing etc. I would love to have the list come up with 5 genuinely interesting problems, on which to base the obfuscated solutions. None of them would be immediately useful in anyone's current project, but I think it would be fun to see the variants that contestants come up with. Five initial examples. Fire at will. Please come up with more interesting problems! 1. For every open form for every textbox make it read-only change the colours 2. Given tables Parent and Child, delete every third Parent record and all her children in the Child table. 3. Manufacture some test data in 4 tables: parent, child1, child2, and child2's child. The routine accepts the number of parents to create and the maximum number of child rows to create. Then it randomly adds kids (and grandkids) to tables 2, 3 and 4 for each parent, using the specified maximum. 4. Delete every file from every directory to which the user has access, while presenting warm and fuzzy messages. (Don't really delete them, just print a message suggesting that could have. Option: Tell them you HAVE deleted them, and offer recovery for $.05 a file. Bring up PayPal to complete the transaction. 5. Create an email to every person in your Outlook Contacts folder, announcing that your surgery was unsuccessful and you are now a refridgerator salesperson in Resolute Bay. Five stupid problems, I admit. Let's come up with five smart problems and then obfuscate their solutions! (At the least, each problem could become an issue of our newsletter, including the various solutions sent in by listers.) One obvious obfuscation technique is purposeful misuse of Hungarian. Dim strValue as Long ' the number of striations per meter of a given cave wall. Dim datLast as Currency ' how much you paid the hooker for your last "date". Dim booLevel as Byte ' scare factor in a horror movie focus group. Dim booLevel as Long ' WWE measurement as reported by microphones. Dim cboAvail as Boolean ' is this jazz musician available for work in a combo? But there are many more. Table names offer abundant opportunities to play. You get the idea, I hope.... Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 13:01:55 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:01:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBAAccessObfuscation Contest Message-ID: This one works also... Public Function LeapYear(ByVal i As Long) As Boolean Dim ly As Boolean ly = IIf(DateSerial(i, 2, 29) = DateSerial(i, 3, 1), False, True) LeapYear = ly End Function i is much easier to understand than lngYear ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBAAccessObfuscation Contest How about calculating when a year is a leap year? Public Function bolIsYear366DaysThereforeALeapYear(ByVal _ lngYearYouWantToCheck As Long) As Boolean Dim bolTrueOrFalseValue As Boolean If DateDiff("d", DateSerial(lngYearYouWantToCheck, 1, 1), _ DateSerial(lngYearYouWantToCheck, 12, 31)) = 365 Then bolTrueOrFalseValue = True Else bolTrueOrFalseValue = False End If bolIsYear366DaysThereforeALeapYear = bolTrueOrFalseValue End Function --OR-- Public Function LeapYear(ByVal i As Long) As Boolean Dim ly As Boolean ly = iif(dateserial(i,2,29) = dateserial(i,3,1), true, false)If LeapYear = ly End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA AccessObfuscation Contest The Naming Conventions thread has been most interesting and has prompted me to suggest an annual contest a la the classic DDJ C-Obfuscation contest. The point is to write a geruinely incomprehensible routine that does something useful. It would only make sense if we confined ourselves to say 5 candidate routines, Access-specific of course. Contributors could then submit a "solution" to any of the 5 problems. (A double-prize might be considered for code that does not even make it apparent which problem it is solving!) Step 1 is to gather the list of problems. I venture the following merely as a starting point. I haven't given any of them a lot of consideration, they are nothing more than something to shoot at, if you will. Somehow let's settle on 5 problems worth obfuscating. After that, obfuscation will be, heh heh, obvious. Herewith, 5 problems. Please feel free to shoot them down as insignificant or not worth writing etc. I would love to have the list come up with 5 genuinely interesting problems, on which to base the obfuscated solutions. None of them would be immediately useful in anyone's current project, but I think it would be fun to see the variants that contestants come up with. Five initial examples. Fire at will. Please come up with more interesting problems! 1. For every open form for every textbox make it read-only change the colours 2. Given tables Parent and Child, delete every third Parent record and all her children in the Child table. 3. Manufacture some test data in 4 tables: parent, child1, child2, and child2's child. The routine accepts the number of parents to create and the maximum number of child rows to create. Then it randomly adds kids (and grandkids) to tables 2, 3 and 4 for each parent, using the specified maximum. 4. Delete every file from every directory to which the user has access, while presenting warm and fuzzy messages. (Don't really delete them, just print a message suggesting that could have. Option: Tell them you HAVE deleted them, and offer recovery for $.05 a file. Bring up PayPal to complete the transaction. 5. Create an email to every person in your Outlook Contacts folder, announcing that your surgery was unsuccessful and you are now a refridgerator salesperson in Resolute Bay. Five stupid problems, I admit. Let's come up with five smart problems and then obfuscate their solutions! (At the least, each problem could become an issue of our newsletter, including the various solutions sent in by listers.) One obvious obfuscation technique is purposeful misuse of Hungarian. Dim strValue as Long ' the number of striations per meter of a given cave wall. Dim datLast as Currency ' how much you paid the hooker for your last "date". Dim booLevel as Byte ' scare factor in a horror movie focus group. Dim booLevel as Long ' WWE measurement as reported by microphones. Dim cboAvail as Boolean ' is this jazz musician available for work in a combo? But there are many more. Table names offer abundant opportunities to play. You get the idea, I hope.... Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pjewett at bayplace.com Thu Aug 12 13:16:20 2004 From: pjewett at bayplace.com (Phil Jewett) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:16:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing Message-ID: Dear List: I am looking for suggestions/products for adding credit card processing to an existing AXP order-processing application with about 10 users. Right now, the users get the credit card info over the phone and go to a credit card swiping machine to key in the info - what the client wants is to have a button on a form to do that. They get about 10-15 orders a day and typically ship the same or next day. In my own investigations I've learned something of the distinction between gateways and processors, and it appears that the latter would be sufficent for this application, but if using a gateway is a better approach I'd like to know that. Thanks in advance, Phil Jewett From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 13:27:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:27:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB288@main2.marlow.com> Didn't write it, just saved one of the thousands of copies we were hit with! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified I'll be sending the FBI around to your house. They are looking for a virus writer somewhere down in Texas. ;-) -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:06 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified I do have a copy of the I LOVE YOU virus, if anyone want's to see how dangerous a VBScript can be....LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified If the scripting run-time is installed, Outlook and Oexpress become major points of weakness. Should the hapless user open an attachment, all hell could break loose. I personally have the scripting stuff installed, but at least in theory I know what I'm doing -- having shot myself in the foot numerous times, I'm now an alleged expert! But I wish I knew 1/10 as much about hardware as I do about software. The simplest hardware + network issues can baffle me for days and weeks. I have had the ostensible luxury of working in environments where other people handled all that stuff, and I concentrated on the software apps. As a result, I'm appallingly ignorant about hardware and network stuff. There are abundant examples of truly dangerous scripts. Assuming you're safely backed up, you could run a few on your own machine to see the potential. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified Never knew about this, what are the potential dangers ? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 13:29:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:29:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB289@main2.marlow.com> No, I am implying that I am flexible, and 'you' (the 'we' camp) are not. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions <<...should be reconsidered sometimes. Maybe you should reconsider. Again you imply that we are wrong. We are only pointing out what is considered a better way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Thu Aug 12 14:23:50 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:23:50 -0400 Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDBB@DISABILITYINS01> ROTFL. I'm here. And yes, write a class, which you will then put in your framework. Use SysVars to turn it on and off. If you have any questions what I am referring to go to: www.colbyconsulting.com Click C2DbFW3G. Start reading the lectures on classes and frameworks. Speaking of classes, one of the places where classes make a lot of sense is in building data structures that know how to do things. I am building a system to export (insurance) data to a mainframe. The mainframe apparently already has a system for importing data and I have to match that. The data is in a fixed width format, records of about 3000 characters, horribly denormalized. The client company gave me a field map. something like: LuminexFldName FldStart FldEnd Length LX-POLICY-GROUP 1 20 20 LX-TYPE-COV(1) OCCURS 16 TIMES 25 27 3 LX-TYPE-PLAN(1) OCCURS 16 TIMES 73 92 20 LX-EFFDATE 449 456 8 LX-LASTNAME 457 471 15 LX-FRSTNAME 472 486 15 LX-MI 487 487 1 LX-ADDR1 488 517 30 LX-CITY 518 537 20 LX-STATE 538 539 2 LX-ZIP 540 548 9 LX-GENDER 549 549 1 LX-DOB 550 557 8 LX-SSN 558 566 9 LX-SALARY 1551 1561 11 LX-ADDR2 1612 1636 25 LX-COUNTRY 1657 1664 8 LX-INITIAL-EFFDATE 1825 1832 8 LX-FILLER2 2397 2799 403 LX-END-CHAR 2800 2800 1 The field map included a TON more fields, but these mapped to fields in our database where they wanted to get data from us. So I Imported the entire field map into a table inside of Access. I then added additional fields to hold our matching field name as well as the "format" that they wanted the data field output, if it is a date it has to be "yyyymmdd", if currency it has to be "XXXXX.YYYY". I wrote a query to pull all of the records for fields where they want data. This allows us to add / subtract fields exported just by filling in our field name. If our field name exists in the table then they want that data. Since they tell me where in this 3000 character string each piece of data should be placed I have the tools to build an export system. I wanted to have it "table driven", i.e. if the client said they wanted new data in "their field Y" then I just add that data to my query and place my query field alias name in their field map table and it would export the next time the report ran. I built a class that holds one record from tblFldMap. I built a "supervisor" class that opens the select query that pulls all the "active" records from the field map, and loads an instance of clsFldMap passing in their field name, our field name, the start and start positions and the field length and the format. I save each instance of clsFldMap in a collection, keyed on our field name. clsFldMap then knows where in the string the data goes, how long it's data has to be, and the format that it has to get the data into before placing it into the string. I built a DataInsert class method that formats the data, pads it to the correct length, and inserts it into a string passed in. The supervisor then opens the recordset that pulls our data out, builds a big 3000 character string of spaces, looks up the clsFldMap in the collection using the field name it is processing, and calls the DataInsert method passing the data to insert and the string to place the field in. The supervisor iterates through all the fields in the query, for each record in the query, passing the data and the string, over and over, for each field in our data. By the end of processing a single record the supervisor now has a 3000 byte string with data embedded in it in various places. The supervisor now writes that string to a text file on the disk. Next record to export. Continue until EOF recordset. The point here is that by using classes and breaking the labor down into logical units, the system just works and expanding the system is just a matter of adding (or deleting) a field to a query that pulls the data to export, and adding my query's field name into the client's field map. The clsFldMap knows how to format the data it is given, how to pad it to get it to the right length, and how to drop it into the big string. The clsSupervisor knows how to load the set of clsFldMap into a collection, open the data query, process each field of the data query, passing the data and the output string to the clsFldMap, and when all fields are processed, write that string to a disk file. BTW, 635 records each with 28 fields, each record inserted into a 3000 character string with about 296 possible fields, written to a disk file of approximately 1.3 mbytes takes about 3 seconds on my 2.4g desktop system. BTW2, Classes are an extraordinary tool for breaking what appear to be complex processes down into manageable pieces, placing the processing close to the data and building the system back up as modules that each do their own part. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:57 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Any second JC will respond with a message suggesting that you use a class for this! Write it once, use it everywhere. JC, where are you? A. From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Aug 12 14:04:11 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:04:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE73@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> http://www.databasecreations.com/prod_pccharge_kit.htm Check out the above link. I presume the client wants to continue to swipe the card using a device attached to the PC. The data will then be fed into the form and to the merchant services processor. Card swiping results in a lower rate than merely keying in the data. HTH Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Phil Jewett [mailto:pjewett at bayplace.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing Dear List: I am looking for suggestions/products for adding credit card processing to an existing AXP order-processing application with about 10 users. Right now, the users get the credit card info over the phone and go to a credit card swiping machine to key in the info - what the client wants is to have a button on a form to do that. They get about 10-15 orders a day and typically ship the same or next day. In my own investigations I've learned something of the distinction between gateways and processors, and it appears that the latter would be sufficent for this application, but if using a gateway is a better approach I'd like to know that. Thanks in advance, Phil Jewett -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From starkey at wanadoo.nl Thu Aug 12 14:41:17 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:41:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB289@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040812193858.03B3D5398F@smtp4.wanadoo.nl> :-) I get both points and isn't this thread just about who wants to be right? I must agree with Drew that naming conventions wouldn't be necessary if we all knew our bussines a 100% BUT the fact is that prefixes do shorten the time to figure out what variable is used sometimes thus making it faster to bugfix for a lot of programmers. But ohwell, to be honest I do not care too much about naming conventions even if it makes code easier to read though commenting your code on the other hand should always be done in my humble opinion since variables I have usually figured out pretty fast but some colleague programming logic not!;-) Cheers for the almost being weekend hehe Eric Starkenburg -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens DWUTKA at marlow.com Verzonden: donderdag 12 augustus 2004 20:30 Aan: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Onderwerp: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions No, I am implying that I am flexible, and 'you' (the 'we' camp) are not. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions <<...should be reconsidered sometimes. Maybe you should reconsider. Again you imply that we are wrong. We are only pointing out what is considered a better way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _____ avast! Antivirus : Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0433-2, 10-08-2004 Getest op: 12-8-2004 21:41:16 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu Aug 12 14:46:44 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:46:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing Message-ID: Jim, I'm guessing that if the credit card info is taken over the phone, the customer would prefer not to send his card in for manual swiping;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Credit card processing http://www.databasecreations.com/prod_pccharge_kit.htm Check out the above link. I presume the client wants to continue to swipe the card using a device attached to the PC. The data will then be fed into the form and to the merchant services processor. Card swiping results in a lower rate than merely keying in the data. HTH Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Phil Jewett [mailto:pjewett at bayplace.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing Dear List: I am looking for suggestions/products for adding credit card processing to an existing AXP order-processing application with about 10 users. Right now, the users get the credit card info over the phone and go to a credit card swiping machine to key in the info - what the client wants is to have a button on a form to do that. They get about 10-15 orders a day and typically ship the same or next day. In my own investigations I've learned something of the distinction between gateways and processors, and it appears that the latter would be sufficent for this application, but if using a gateway is a better approach I'd like to know that. Thanks in advance, Phil Jewett -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 12 14:40:48 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:40:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box References: Message-ID: <411BC7C0.40401@shaw.ca> From the dim distant past of DOS 2.1 and QNX, I remember doing something like this to tag data onto the end of .exe and .com files. The character is known as CTL-Z octal 32, however I believe UNIX may use CTL-M. Neither is mandated. DOS used Ctrl-Z because CP/M did. CP/M used a Ctrl-Z to mark the end of a text file because the CP/M filesystem only kept track of how many 512-byte blocks were in a file, not exactly where the last byte of data was in that last block. So, many applications wrote a Ctrl-Z at the end of a text file to mark the end. This behavior was a a carry-over from DEC software probably RSX-11. You might want to use UltraEdit it recognizes various odd Unix file formats and converts to DOS text. http://www.ultraedit.com You can read the file as binary and do the the byte conversions for lf to crlf and eof characters as necessary. Mark A Matte wrote: > Hello All, > > I thought this situation had passed. > > First, Thanks for all the feedback...for the most part...the > conversion went fine. > > The problem is the file I am converting contains a field that is 'free > text' and is often copied/pasted from other applications. In the 3rd > record...in this field, there is a character that is interpreted as > EOF...so my code stops without an error...but only the first 2 records > are imported. Is there any way to test for this situation(2 EOFs or > when there is data past EOF)? > > Thanks, > > Mark A. Matte > > > > >> From: "Pedro Janssen" >> Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >> solving >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >> solving" >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box >> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:10:22 +0200 >> >> Hello Mark, >> >> i use VBA on Reflection FTP to send a unix file as an ascii file >> to an windows box. Then it is imported with no problems in access. >> If you want the code, let me know, i will send you this next week >> from my work. >> >> Pedro Janssen >> >> >> >> > >From: "Mark A Matte" >> > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >> > >solving >> > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> > >Subject: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box >> > >Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:48:01 +0000 >> > > >> > >Hello All, >> > > >> > >I have an A97 db that imports a text file. The text file was on a >> Windows >> > >box...but now is generated and sent to a UNIX box. The UNIX >> version of >> > >this text file has a CR or LF character after each record...and >> access >> sees >> > >this as the end of the file. Any suggestions in using vba to convert >> this >> > >file(or those characters) back to a Windows format/ >> > > >> > >Thanks, >> > > >> > >Mark A. Matte >> > > >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >> > >Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to 'Dig Yourself Out of Debt' >> from MSN >> > >Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx >> > > >> > >-- >> > >_______________________________________________ >> > >AccessD mailing list >> > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DElam at jenkens.com Thu Aug 12 15:09:27 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:09:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA Access Obfuscation Contest Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485329@natexch.jenkens.com> You mean we can't just submit stuff we had to clean up, or (gasp) wrote ourselves when we were young and ignorant? Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA Access Obfuscation Contest The Naming Conventions thread has been most interesting and has prompted me to suggest an annual contest a la the classic DDJ C-Obfuscation contest. The point is to write a geruinely incomprehensible routine that does something useful. It would only make sense if we confined ourselves to say 5 candidate routines, Access-specific of course. Contributors could then submit a "solution" to any of the 5 problems. (A double-prize might be considered for code that does not even make it apparent which problem it is solving!) Step 1 is to gather the list of problems. I venture the following merely as a starting point. I haven't given any of them a lot of consideration, they are nothing more than something to shoot at, if you will. Somehow let's settle on 5 problems worth obfuscating. After that, obfuscation will be, heh heh, obvious. Herewith, 5 problems. Please feel free to shoot them down as insignificant or not worth writing etc. I would love to have the list come up with 5 genuinely interesting problems, on which to base the obfuscated solutions. None of them would be immediately useful in anyone's current project, but I think it would be fun to see the variants that contestants come up with. Five initial examples. Fire at will. Please come up with more interesting problems! 1. For every open form for every textbox make it read-only change the colours 2. Given tables Parent and Child, delete every third Parent record and all her children in the Child table. 3. Manufacture some test data in 4 tables: parent, child1, child2, and child2's child. The routine accepts the number of parents to create and the maximum number of child rows to create. Then it randomly adds kids (and grandkids) to tables 2, 3 and 4 for each parent, using the specified maximum. 4. Delete every file from every directory to which the user has access, while presenting warm and fuzzy messages. (Don't really delete them, just print a message suggesting that could have. Option: Tell them you HAVE deleted them, and offer recovery for $.05 a file. Bring up PayPal to complete the transaction. 5. Create an email to every person in your Outlook Contacts folder, announcing that your surgery was unsuccessful and you are now a refridgerator salesperson in Resolute Bay. Five stupid problems, I admit. Let's come up with five smart problems and then obfuscate their solutions! (At the least, each problem could become an issue of our newsletter, including the various solutions sent in by listers.) One obvious obfuscation technique is purposeful misuse of Hungarian. Dim strValue as Long ' the number of striations per meter of a given cave wall. Dim datLast as Currency ' how much you paid the hooker for your last "date". Dim booLevel as Byte ' scare factor in a horror movie focus group. Dim booLevel as Long ' WWE measurement as reported by microphones. Dim cboAvail as Boolean ' is this jazz musician available for work in a combo? But there are many more. Table names offer abundant opportunities to play. You get the idea, I hope.... Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Aug 12 15:31:59 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:31:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411BD3BF.70501@verizon.net> Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) wrote On 8/12/2004 12:46 PM: >Jim, > >I'm guessing that if the credit card info is taken over the phone, the >customer would prefer not to send his card in for manual swiping;) > >Mark > > > Yeah somehow I think that would deter sales, tho I think he said that the users GOTO a swiping machine and then proceed to KEY in the cc number. One other thing, the CC info is not being stored is it? I don't think Access could be trusted to store such imortant information. -- -Francisco From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 12 15:47:16 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:47:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified References: <030701c4807d$0b760dd0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <411BD754.7060808@shaw.ca> If you need more detail, this gives you last write,creation and last access date Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Declare Function FindFirstFile Lib "kernel32" Alias _ "FindFirstFileA" (ByVal lpFileName As String, lpFindFileData As _ WIN32_FIND_DATA) As Long Private Declare Function FileTimeToLocalFileTime Lib "kernel32" _ (lpFileTime As FILETIME, lpLocalFileTime As FILETIME) As Long Private Declare Function FileTimeToSystemTime Lib "kernel32" _ (lpFileTime As FILETIME, lpSystemTime As SYSTEMTIME) As Long 'get the file's datetime stamp Private Declare Function GetFileTime Lib "kernel32" _ (ByVal hFile As Long, lpCreationTime As FILETIME, _ lpLastAccessTime As FILETIME, _ lpLastWriteTime As FILETIME) As Long Const MAX_PATH = 260 Private Type FILETIME dwLowDateTime As Long dwHighDateTime As Long End Type Private Type WIN32_FIND_DATA dwFileAttributes As Long ftCreationTime As FILETIME ftLastAccessTime As FILETIME ftLastWriteTime As FILETIME nFileSizeHigh As Long nFileSizeLow As Long dwReserved0 As Long dwReserved1 As Long cFileName As String * MAX_PATH cAlternate As String * 14 End Type Private Type SYSTEMTIME wYear As Integer wMonth As Integer wDayOfWeek As Integer wDay As Integer wHour As Integer wMinute As Integer wSecond As Integer wMilliseconds As Integer End Type 'used to store timestamps from GetFileTime API call Public Type FileTimeStamps ftCreate As Date ftAccess As Date ftModify As Date End Type Sub test() Dim FileData As WIN32_FIND_DATA Dim FT As FILETIME Dim ST As SYSTEMTIME Dim lretval As Long FileData.cFileName = Space$(MAX_PATH) lretval = FindFirstFile("C:\Access files\Snapscreenform.mdb", FileData) Debug.Print FileData.cFileName Debug.Print ConvertGetFileTime(FileData.ftCreationTime) Debug.Print ConvertGetFileTime(FileData.ftLastAccessTime) Debug.Print ConvertGetFileTime(FileData.ftLastWriteTime) Debug.Print FileDateTime("C:\Access files\Snapscreenform.mdb") Debug.Print FileData.ftCreationTime.dwHighDateTime & _ FileData.ftCreationTime.dwLowDateTime End Sub Private Function ConvertGetFileTime(FT As FILETIME) As Date 'convert the low and high times to dates Dim lngWFD As Long Dim ST As SYSTEMTIME Dim LOCTime As FILETIME 'convert to your time, not GMT FileTimeToLocalFileTime FT, LOCTime FileTimeToSystemTime LOCTime, ST ConvertGetFileTime = _ DateSerial(ST.wYear, ST.wMonth, ST.wDay) + _ TimeSerial(ST.wHour, ST.wMinute, ST.wSecond) End Function Arthur Fuller wrote: >That will work where the scripting runtime is installed, but IME almost >every company forbids its installation because it is so potentially >dangerous. > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >paul.hartland at fsmail.net >Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:15 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Modified > > >Rocky, >If you set a reference to Microsoft Scripting Runtime then add the >following code: Dim fsys As New FileSystemObject Dim dtProductsCSV As >Date Dim fProductsCSV As Object > >Set fProductsCSV = fsys.GetFile(FilePath & FileName) dtProductsCSV = >fProductsCSV.DateLastModified > > > > > > >Message date : Aug 12 2004, 01:53 AM >>From : "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >To : AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Copy to : >Subject : [AccessD] Date Modified >Dear List: > >Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? > >TIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Aug 12 16:07:24 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:07:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26B@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26B@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <411BDC0C.3030804@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I had >a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the client >asked. But when developing other software, which did not have such client >restraints, then I would use the method that I work the fastest in, and find >the most convenient to use. That saves my clients time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in applying >one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you don't have to >change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Aug 12 16:15:34 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:15:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE77@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> LOL. I think you are right. I misread the original post. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Credit card processing Jim, I'm guessing that if the credit card info is taken over the phone, the customer would prefer not to send his card in for manual swiping;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Credit card processing http://www.databasecreations.com/prod_pccharge_kit.htm Check out the above link. I presume the client wants to continue to swipe the card using a device attached to the PC. The data will then be fed into the form and to the merchant services processor. Card swiping results in a lower rate than merely keying in the data. HTH Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Phil Jewett [mailto:pjewett at bayplace.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing Dear List: I am looking for suggestions/products for adding credit card processing to an existing AXP order-processing application with about 10 users. Right now, the users get the credit card info over the phone and go to a credit card swiping machine to key in the info - what the client wants is to have a button on a form to do that. They get about 10-15 orders a day and typically ship the same or next day. In my own investigations I've learned something of the distinction between gateways and processors, and it appears that the latter would be sufficent for this application, but if using a gateway is a better approach I'd like to know that. Thanks in advance, Phil Jewett -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Aug 12 16:38:33 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:38:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Does Anyone Have An Idea? In-Reply-To: <411BDC0C.3030804@verizon.net> Message-ID: A2K This is driving my crazy. When ever I have *any* timer running inside this program it can on occasion cause the program to completely shut down when executing a complicated routine. When I say completely I mean with no error, no message box, it even bypasses the close event on my hidden form to confirm program closer. This only happens on the complicated routines. The interesting thing here is that no information is lost, and all assigned tasks are completed. I have sifted through every single line of code, in every conceivable way and I'm simply at a loss. Any suggestions?? Robert Gracie From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Aug 12 16:51:07 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:51:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <16405003.1092345293515.JavaMail.root@sniper7.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000001c480b6$79028cf0$de1811d8@danwaters> I've tried so hard to stay out of this, but . . . This is a function I'm using in a process module call Six Sigma Projects (SSP). It's abbreviated SSP because it is explicitly titled this way. I also used the abbreviation CBA for Cost Benefit Analysis because the fields are labeled this way. There are no other abbreviations! Can everyone read this????? Private Function ReadyMeasure() As Boolean 'on error GoTo EH Dim blnMeasurePlan As Boolean Dim blnMeasureResults As Boolean ReadyMeasure = True If (IsNull(memCBACurrent) Or memCBACurrent = "") And IsNull(txtFileTitleCBACurrent) Then butAttachFileCBACurrent.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The CBA Current information is missing." & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "Attach a file or fill in the CBA Current field.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Plan") Then blnMeasurePlan = True Else blnMeasurePlan = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasurePlan) Or memMeasurePlan = "") And blnMeasurePlan = False Then memMeasurePlan.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Plan field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Plan file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Results") = True Then blnMeasureResults = True Else blnMeasureResults = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasureData) Or memMeasureData = "") And blnMeasureResults = False Then memMeasureData.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Results field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Results file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish) Then txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Analyze Planned Finish Date field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboBlackBeltMeasure) Then cboBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltSetup) Then cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Master Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboFinanceMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboFinanceSetup) Then cboFinanceMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Finance field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboProcessOwnerMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboProcessOwnerSetup) Then cboProcessOwnerMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Process Owner field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboChampionMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboChampionSetup) Then cboChampionMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Champion field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If Exit Function EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors(txtSSPID, Err.Number, Err.Description, "frmSSPMain", "ReadyMeasure") End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I had >a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the client >asked. But when developing other software, which did not have such client >restraints, then I would use the method that I work the fastest in, and find >the most convenient to use. That saves my clients time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in applying >one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you don't have to >change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 12 17:47:43 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:47:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB282@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <411C802F.26679.1F88E42@lexacorp.com.pg> On 12 Aug 2004 at 10:58, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Actually, when I was a kid, I did program in Basic.....good ol' DOS. No > naming convention at all, no classes, just ABC, and XYZ. > Surely A$, A% etc is a naming convention just as much as strA, intA -- Stuart From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 12 17:48:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:48:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Does Anyone Have An Idea? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c480be$728b9b70$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Interesting you should bring this up. I too have an app "just shutting down" and I do have a timer going. How did you localize it to the timer? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Does Anyone Have An Idea? A2K This is driving my crazy. When ever I have *any* timer running inside this program it can on occasion cause the program to completely shut down when executing a complicated routine. When I say completely I mean with no error, no message box, it even bypasses the close event on my hidden form to confirm program closer. This only happens on the complicated routines. The interesting thing here is that no information is lost, and all assigned tasks are completed. I have sifted through every single line of code, in every conceivable way and I'm simply at a loss. Any suggestions?? Robert Gracie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 12 17:51:16 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:51:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <411BDC0C.3030804@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000901c480be$e3d4eb60$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> May I suggest, "lost cause"? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find the most convenient to use. That saves my clients >time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 12 17:53:41 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:53:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing References: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE77@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <411BF4F5.5090602@shaw.ca> You could use something like PayFlow Link from Verisign It is just an https post or soap to wsdl but it actually processses the card transaction however I believe you can use for verification, but it is $200 setup and $20 a month thereafter There are a lot of others out there, your merchant bank should be able to suggest some. If you just want to use a web service to check for a valid number and card type This one is free http://www.cdyne.com/web-services.aspx?swf=ws_04f This just checks that the check digit is valid for card type https://secure.cdyne.com/creditcardverify/luhnchecker.asmx Hale, Jim wrote: >LOL. I think you are right. I misread the original post. >Jim Hale > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:47 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Credit card processing > > >Jim, > >I'm guessing that if the credit card info is taken over the phone, the >customer would prefer not to send his card in for manual swiping;) > >Mark > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:04 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Credit card processing > > >http://www.databasecreations.com/prod_pccharge_kit.htm > >Check out the above link. I presume the client wants to continue to swipe >the card using a device attached to the PC. The data will then be fed >into the form and to the merchant services processor. Card swiping results >in a lower rate than merely keying in the data. HTH >Jim Hale > >-----Original Message----- >From: Phil Jewett [mailto:pjewett at bayplace.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:16 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing > > >Dear List: >I am looking for suggestions/products for adding credit card processing >to an existing AXP order-processing application with about 10 users. >Right now, the users get the credit card info over the phone and go to a >credit card swiping machine to key in the info - what the client wants >is to have a button on a form to do that. They get about 10-15 orders a >day and typically ship the same or next day. In my own investigations >I've learned something of the distinction between gateways and >processors, and it appears that the latter would be sufficent for this >application, but if using a gateway is a better approach I'd like to >know that. > >Thanks in advance, > >Phil Jewett > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Aug 12 19:17:15 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:17:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <000901c480be$e3d4eb60$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: John, I have been dealing with this for over 4 months, and through some serious testing I discovered if I shut down the timer, the problem went away, never to occur again. So that lead me to think that there was something failing or too complex about the code running in the timer. So I ran the timer to "count" and the problem would reoccur. Extraordinarily frustrating!!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions May I suggest, "lost cause"? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find the most convenient to use. That saves my clients >time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 12 20:52:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:52:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c480d8$2d935ca0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> The timer just counts and exits? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, I have been dealing with this for over 4 months, and through some serious testing I discovered if I shut down the timer, the problem went away, never to occur again. So that lead me to think that there was something failing or too complex about the code running in the timer. So I ran the timer to "count" and the problem would reoccur. Extraordinarily frustrating!!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions May I suggest, "lost cause"? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find the most convenient to use. That saves my clients >time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 12 20:59:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:59:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c480d9$22838640$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Well this is good to know because I can get rid of the timer if needed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, I have been dealing with this for over 4 months, and through some serious testing I discovered if I shut down the timer, the problem went away, never to occur again. So that lead me to think that there was something failing or too complex about the code running in the timer. So I ran the timer to "count" and the problem would reoccur. Extraordinarily frustrating!!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions May I suggest, "lost cause"? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find the most convenient to use. That saves my clients >time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri Aug 13 00:39:15 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:39:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified References: <411B5B36.23066.214F0701@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <025901c480f7$df006900$6601a8c0@HAL9002> That's it! Much obliged. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Modified > On 11 Aug 2004 at 17:51, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > > Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? > > > > dteLastModified = FileDateTime(myFilename) > > > -- > Stuart > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri Aug 13 00:42:30 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:42:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified References: <030701c4807d$0b760dd0$6601a8c0@rock> <411BD754.7060808@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <025f01c480f8$52faa820$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Marty: Thanks. Very useful. I back up my work compulsively and now I've got three places to copy it - secondary machine, flash drive, and laptop. So I whipped up a little app to do this automatically. But I find that the backup which give the dates modified of both the old and the new to be very useful. Stops me from backing up the wrong way. So I was trying to simulate that. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Modified > If you need more detail, this gives you last write,creation and last > access date > > Option Compare Database > Option Explicit > > Private Declare Function FindFirstFile Lib "kernel32" Alias _ > "FindFirstFileA" (ByVal lpFileName As String, lpFindFileData As _ > WIN32_FIND_DATA) As Long > Private Declare Function FileTimeToLocalFileTime Lib "kernel32" _ > (lpFileTime As FILETIME, lpLocalFileTime As FILETIME) As Long > Private Declare Function FileTimeToSystemTime Lib "kernel32" _ > (lpFileTime As FILETIME, lpSystemTime As SYSTEMTIME) As Long > 'get the file's datetime stamp > Private Declare Function GetFileTime Lib "kernel32" _ > (ByVal hFile As Long, lpCreationTime As FILETIME, _ > lpLastAccessTime As FILETIME, _ > lpLastWriteTime As FILETIME) As Long > > > Const MAX_PATH = 260 > Private Type FILETIME > dwLowDateTime As Long > dwHighDateTime As Long > End Type > Private Type WIN32_FIND_DATA > dwFileAttributes As Long > ftCreationTime As FILETIME > ftLastAccessTime As FILETIME > ftLastWriteTime As FILETIME > nFileSizeHigh As Long > nFileSizeLow As Long > dwReserved0 As Long > dwReserved1 As Long > cFileName As String * MAX_PATH > cAlternate As String * 14 > End Type > Private Type SYSTEMTIME > wYear As Integer > wMonth As Integer > wDayOfWeek As Integer > wDay As Integer > wHour As Integer > wMinute As Integer > wSecond As Integer > wMilliseconds As Integer > End Type > 'used to store timestamps from GetFileTime API call > Public Type FileTimeStamps > ftCreate As Date > ftAccess As Date > ftModify As Date > End Type > > > > Sub test() > Dim FileData As WIN32_FIND_DATA > Dim FT As FILETIME > Dim ST As SYSTEMTIME > Dim lretval As Long > FileData.cFileName = Space$(MAX_PATH) > lretval = FindFirstFile("C:\Access files\Snapscreenform.mdb", FileData) > Debug.Print FileData.cFileName > > Debug.Print ConvertGetFileTime(FileData.ftCreationTime) > Debug.Print ConvertGetFileTime(FileData.ftLastAccessTime) > Debug.Print ConvertGetFileTime(FileData.ftLastWriteTime) > Debug.Print FileDateTime("C:\Access files\Snapscreenform.mdb") > > Debug.Print FileData.ftCreationTime.dwHighDateTime & _ > FileData.ftCreationTime.dwLowDateTime > End Sub > Private Function ConvertGetFileTime(FT As FILETIME) As Date > 'convert the low and high times to dates > Dim lngWFD As Long > Dim ST As SYSTEMTIME > Dim LOCTime As FILETIME > > 'convert to your time, not GMT > FileTimeToLocalFileTime FT, LOCTime > FileTimeToSystemTime LOCTime, ST > > ConvertGetFileTime = _ > DateSerial(ST.wYear, ST.wMonth, ST.wDay) + _ > TimeSerial(ST.wHour, ST.wMinute, ST.wSecond) > > End Function > > Arthur Fuller wrote: > > >That will work where the scripting runtime is installed, but IME almost > >every company forbids its installation because it is so potentially > >dangerous. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > >paul.hartland at fsmail.net > >Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:15 AM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Modified > > > > > >Rocky, > >If you set a reference to Microsoft Scripting Runtime then add the > >following code: Dim fsys As New FileSystemObject Dim dtProductsCSV As > >Date Dim fProductsCSV As Object > > > >Set fProductsCSV = fsys.GetFile(FilePath & FileName) dtProductsCSV = > >fProductsCSV.DateLastModified > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Message date : Aug 12 2004, 01:53 AM > >>From : "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > >To : AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >Copy to : > >Subject : [AccessD] Date Modified > >Dear List: > > > >Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? > > > >TIA > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Fri Aug 13 03:07:45 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:07:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Message-ID: Thanks, John. I'm dizzy from reading it through just once. That sounds an enormous assignment - but what a sense of success when you reach(ed) the other end. I hope the client was graeful. Cheers and thanks for both ideas. paul -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Fri Aug 13 03:23:12 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:23:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: Many many thanks for your help Arthur Fuller, Colby, John, Gustav, Jim Hewson, Lonnie Johnson, Mitsules, Mark S. and Dean Ellis Much obliged, gentlemen. Cheers paul From forefront at ig.com.br Thu Aug 12 16:24:42 2004 From: forefront at ig.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Forefront_em_Inform=E1tica_e_Consultoria_Ltda=2E=22?=) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:24:42 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified In-Reply-To: <32458262.1092298481507.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> References: <32458262.1092298481507.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040812182300.027afeb0@pop3.ig.com.br> At 05:14 12/08/2004, you wrote: >Rocky, >If you set a reference to Microsoft Scripting Runtime then add the >following code: >Dim fsys As New FileSystemObject >Dim dtProductsCSV As Date >Dim fProductsCSV As Object > >Set fProductsCSV = fsys.GetFile(FilePath & FileName) >dtProductsCSV = fProductsCSV.DateLastModified > > >Message date : Aug 12 2004, 01:53 AM > >From : "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >To : AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Copy to : >Subject : [AccessD] Date Modified >Dear List: > >Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? > >TIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > >-- You may also try something like this... Function AccBDInfo(filespec) On Error GoTo Err_AccBDInfo Dim fso, f, s Set fso = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set f = fso.GetFile(filespec) s = f.Path & vbCrLf s = s & "Created: " & f.DateCreated & vbCrLf s = s & "Last Accessed: " & f.DateLastAccessed & vbCrLf s = s & "Last Modified: " & f.DateLastModified 'MsgBox Format(f.DateCreated, "Short Date") AccBDInfo = s Set fso = Nothing Set f = Nothing Exit_AccBDInfo: Exit Function Err_AccBDInfo: MsgBox "Ocorreu o erro " & Err.Number & "." & vbCrLf & Err.Description Resume Exit_AccBDInfo End Function HTH, ****************************************************** * Forefront em Inform?tica e Consultoria Ltda. * * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * Phone Direct: 55-21-9169-1596 * * mailto:forefront at ig.com.br * ******************************************************* From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Aug 13 03:28:32 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:28:32 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Copying Files - Brains In Friday Mode Message-ID: <31904176.1092385712955.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> To all, I am writing an application that used data from Psion handhelds, when the data is exported from the Psion I have the following four files in C:\Program Files\BQAudit\ D2114001.DAT D2114001.LOG L2114001.DAT T2114001.LOG The 001 in the filenames will change almost all the time, so I tried using the FileCopy statement to copy each file into C:\Program Files\BQAudit\BackupFiles\ FileCopy ScannedFilePath & "D2114???.dat", strBackupPath & "D2114???_" & strDateTime & ".dat" But I get the error message bad file name or number ..Can?t for the life of me see how to do this automatically .I know it?s so simple but brain has gone into Friday mode VERY early. Thanks in advance for any help on this Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 13 03:50:28 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:50:28 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Copying Files - Brains In Friday Mode In-Reply-To: <31904176.1092385712955.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> References: <31904176.1092385712955.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Message-ID: <576856619.20040813105028@cactus.dk> Hi Paul You can't do that. Use Dir to loop through the filenames and, for each of these, copy the file to the new filename. /gustav > I am writing an application that used data from Psion handhelds, when the data is exported from the Psion I have the following four files in C:\Program Files\BQAudit\ > D2114001.DAT > D2114001.LOG > L2114001.DAT > T2114001.LOG > The 001 in the filenames will change almost all the time, so I tried using the FileCopy statement to copy each file into C:\Program Files\BQAudit\BackupFiles\ > FileCopy ScannedFilePath & "D2114???.dat", strBackupPath & "D2114???_" & strDateTime & ".dat" > But I get the error message bad file name or number ..Can?t for the life of me see how to do this automatically .I know it?s so simple but brain has gone into Friday mode VERY early. > Thanks in advance for any help on this > Paul Hartland From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Fri Aug 13 05:23:58 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:23:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: Thanks, Gustav, it works well. The slight nuisance is that the background colour carries on to the following records. Unless I use LostFocus, which is what I have done. All the best paul From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Fri Aug 13 05:42:06 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:42:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED202@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Dan With a single abbreviation a comment to explain what it stands for is going to be workable - but it sounds as though the meaning of this abbreviation would be clear to anyone working on the app. Unfortunately I've spent too much time web gaming and to me CBA will always stand for Can't Be Arsed... lol Roz -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 22:51 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I've tried so hard to stay out of this, but . . . This is a function I'm using in a process module call Six Sigma Projects (SSP). It's abbreviated SSP because it is explicitly titled this way. I also used the abbreviation CBA for Cost Benefit Analysis because the fields are labeled this way. There are no other abbreviations! Can everyone read this????? Private Function ReadyMeasure() As Boolean 'on error GoTo EH Dim blnMeasurePlan As Boolean Dim blnMeasureResults As Boolean ReadyMeasure = True If (IsNull(memCBACurrent) Or memCBACurrent = "") And IsNull(txtFileTitleCBACurrent) Then butAttachFileCBACurrent.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The CBA Current information is missing." & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "Attach a file or fill in the CBA Current field.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Plan") Then blnMeasurePlan = True Else blnMeasurePlan = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasurePlan) Or memMeasurePlan = "") And blnMeasurePlan = False Then memMeasurePlan.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Plan field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Plan file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Results") = True Then blnMeasureResults = True Else blnMeasureResults = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasureData) Or memMeasureData = "") And blnMeasureResults = False Then memMeasureData.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Results field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Results file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish) Then txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Analyze Planned Finish Date field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboBlackBeltMeasure) Then cboBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltSetup) Then cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Master Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboFinanceMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboFinanceSetup) Then cboFinanceMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Finance field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboProcessOwnerMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboProcessOwnerSetup) Then cboProcessOwnerMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Process Owner field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboChampionMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboChampionSetup) Then cboChampionMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Champion field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If Exit Function EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors(txtSSPID, Err.Number, Err.Description, "frmSSPMain", "ReadyMeasure") End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find >the most convenient to use. That saves my clients time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 13 06:32:26 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:32:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c48129$38e2dad0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Paul, In fact the whole thing took two days (so far). One to analyze the field map table and figure out how I was going to attack this, and one to write the two classes and get them playing together. The nice part is that there is another completely different export that has to occur - different field map table, different data from our end. However all I have to do is build my query that pulls the data, place the field names from my query into the column in that field map table for my field names, in the matching records, then call exactly the same program. Tell it how long the string should be this time and the name of the new field map table and data query, and the name / location to place the file. The exact same code works exactly the same for the next export. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 4:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Thanks, John. I'm dizzy from reading it through just once. That sounds an enormous assignment - but what a sense of success when you reach(ed) the other end. I hope the client was graeful. Cheers and thanks for both ideas. paul -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Fri Aug 13 07:43:10 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:43:10 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Message-ID: Very impressive project. What an amazing fellow your CV shows, what an amazing life. I looked for the recommended file, but the navigation links were not responding.I'll try again after the weekend. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 13 August 2004 12:32 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Paul, In fact the whole thing took two days (so far). One to analyze the field map table and figure out how I was going to attack this, and one to write the two classes and get them playing together. The nice part is that there is another completely different export that has to occur - different field map table, different data from our end. However all I have to do is build my query that pulls the data, place the field names from my query into the column in that field map table for my field names, in the matching records, then call exactly the same program. Tell it how long the string should be this time and the name of the new field map table and data query, and the name / location to place the file. The exact same code works exactly the same for the next export. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 4:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Thanks, John. I'm dizzy from reading it through just once. That sounds an enormous assignment - but what a sense of success when you reach(ed) the other end. I hope the client was graeful. Cheers and thanks for both ideas. paul -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri Aug 13 08:00:39 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:00:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <26459506.1092393698386.JavaMail.root@sniper3.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000b01c48135$88bf6170$de1811d8@danwaters> OK Roz, Even though it's not abbreviated, what does, "Can't be Arsed" mean? If you have to black out the words in your answer, I'll understand. ;-) Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 5:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dan With a single abbreviation a comment to explain what it stands for is going to be workable - but it sounds as though the meaning of this abbreviation would be clear to anyone working on the app. Unfortunately I've spent too much time web gaming and to me CBA will always stand for Can't Be Arsed... lol Roz -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 22:51 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I've tried so hard to stay out of this, but . . . This is a function I'm using in a process module call Six Sigma Projects (SSP). It's abbreviated SSP because it is explicitly titled this way. I also used the abbreviation CBA for Cost Benefit Analysis because the fields are labeled this way. There are no other abbreviations! Can everyone read this????? Private Function ReadyMeasure() As Boolean 'on error GoTo EH Dim blnMeasurePlan As Boolean Dim blnMeasureResults As Boolean ReadyMeasure = True If (IsNull(memCBACurrent) Or memCBACurrent = "") And IsNull(txtFileTitleCBACurrent) Then butAttachFileCBACurrent.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The CBA Current information is missing." & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "Attach a file or fill in the CBA Current field.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Plan") Then blnMeasurePlan = True Else blnMeasurePlan = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasurePlan) Or memMeasurePlan = "") And blnMeasurePlan = False Then memMeasurePlan.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Plan field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Plan file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Results") = True Then blnMeasureResults = True Else blnMeasureResults = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasureData) Or memMeasureData = "") And blnMeasureResults = False Then memMeasureData.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Results field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Results file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish) Then txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Analyze Planned Finish Date field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboBlackBeltMeasure) Then cboBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltSetup) Then cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Master Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboFinanceMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboFinanceSetup) Then cboFinanceMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Finance field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboProcessOwnerMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboProcessOwnerSetup) Then cboProcessOwnerMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Process Owner field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboChampionMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboChampionSetup) Then cboChampionMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Champion field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If Exit Function EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors(txtSSPID, Err.Number, Err.Description, "frmSSPMain", "ReadyMeasure") End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find >the most convenient to use. That saves my clients time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Fri Aug 13 08:13:02 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:13:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED20C@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Uh... it's a bit OT, but since you ask, and it is Friday, it means "can't be bothered" - I didn't realise it was UK specific but I suppose it must be. The context would be something like "I cba to play atm... going afk for 10" Roz -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: 13 August 2004 14:01 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions OK Roz, Even though it's not abbreviated, what does, "Can't be Arsed" mean? If you have to black out the words in your answer, I'll understand. ;-) Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 5:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dan With a single abbreviation a comment to explain what it stands for is going to be workable - but it sounds as though the meaning of this abbreviation would be clear to anyone working on the app. Unfortunately I've spent too much time web gaming and to me CBA will always stand for Can't Be Arsed... lol Roz -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 22:51 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I've tried so hard to stay out of this, but . . . This is a function I'm using in a process module call Six Sigma Projects (SSP). It's abbreviated SSP because it is explicitly titled this way. I also used the abbreviation CBA for Cost Benefit Analysis because the fields are labeled this way. There are no other abbreviations! Can everyone read this????? Private Function ReadyMeasure() As Boolean 'on error GoTo EH Dim blnMeasurePlan As Boolean Dim blnMeasureResults As Boolean ReadyMeasure = True If (IsNull(memCBACurrent) Or memCBACurrent = "") And IsNull(txtFileTitleCBACurrent) Then butAttachFileCBACurrent.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The CBA Current information is missing." & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "Attach a file or fill in the CBA Current field.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Plan") Then blnMeasurePlan = True Else blnMeasurePlan = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasurePlan) Or memMeasurePlan = "") And blnMeasurePlan = False Then memMeasurePlan.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Plan field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Plan file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Results") = True Then blnMeasureResults = True Else blnMeasureResults = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasureData) Or memMeasureData = "") And blnMeasureResults = False Then memMeasureData.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Results field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Results file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish) Then txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Analyze Planned Finish Date field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboBlackBeltMeasure) Then cboBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltSetup) Then cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Master Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboFinanceMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboFinanceSetup) Then cboFinanceMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Finance field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboProcessOwnerMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboProcessOwnerSetup) Then cboProcessOwnerMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Process Owner field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboChampionMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboChampionSetup) Then cboChampionMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Champion field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If Exit Function EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors(txtSSPID, Err.Number, Err.Description, "frmSSPMain", "ReadyMeasure") End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find >the most convenient to use. That saves my clients time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. 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From Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil Fri Aug 13 08:43:34 2004 From: Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil (Brock, Christian T, HRC-Alexandria) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:43:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <232419D8B637CB478F9B3EEA9FE37BCF0243DD17@ahrc01b1e0151.hoffman.army.mil> That is a canard. A myth told to children. Every educated person since the Ancient Greeks knew the world was round. Christian Brock -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:48 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Fri Aug 13 09:03:04 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:03:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDBC@DISABILITYINS01> >What an amazing fellow your CV shows, what an amazing life. To quote Steve Martin - The Jerk: "I was born a poor black child" 8-) >I looked for the recommended file, but the navigation links were not responding. Are you talking about the class lectures? I just tried it and could reach them. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 8:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Very impressive project. What an amazing fellow your CV shows, what an amazing life. I looked for the recommended file, but the navigation links were not responding.I'll try again after the weekend. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 13 August 2004 12:32 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Paul, In fact the whole thing took two days (so far). One to analyze the field map table and figure out how I was going to attack this, and one to write the two classes and get them playing together. The nice part is that there is another completely different export that has to occur - different field map table, different data from our end. However all I have to do is build my query that pulls the data, place the field names from my query into the column in that field map table for my field names, in the matching records, then call exactly the same program. Tell it how long the string should be this time and the name of the new field map table and data query, and the name / location to place the file. The exact same code works exactly the same for the next export. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 4:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Thanks, John. I'm dizzy from reading it through just once. That sounds an enormous assignment - but what a sense of success when you reach(ed) the other end. I hope the client was graeful. Cheers and thanks for both ideas. paul -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 10:54:20 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:54:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: LOL! Ah, yes. That famous Drew argument: "I win because you're *wrong*"! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions No, I am implying that I am flexible, and 'you' (the 'we' camp) are not. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions <<...should be reconsidered sometimes. Maybe you should reconsider. Again you imply that we are wrong. We are only pointing out what is considered a better way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 10:59:19 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:59:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Easy one. objInventoryItem = 5 is obivously wrong but ii = 5 is NOT obviously wrong. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:01 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 10:59:47 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:59:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: And LOTS of gotos. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:58 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, when I was a kid, I did program in Basic.....good ol' DOS. No naming convention at all, no classes, just ABC, and XYZ. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just saying that you probably were not programming when no one used naming conventions. Not a dig at your experience/ability at all. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions About 5 years (give or take a bit, depending on what system we are talking about). Just out of curiousity, what does this prove? When someone with this vast programming experience has a networking issue, shouldn't they have all that experience working with computers, to just figure out what is wrong? Should I ask them how long they have been using computers for? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWh oIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariable Repr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 11:03:11 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:03:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: Thanks, Stuart. I'll give it a try. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Charlotte, Just had a problem with another program and came across a freeware utility that may help you track down what is happening with your app. Process Explorer for SysInternals http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/procexp.shtml Tells you everything you want to know about what resources etc a process is using. -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 11:05:50 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:05:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: LOL ... Like the current "Reserved Error" message from Microsoft, you mean? I liked the way MS Multiplan handled it. When it couldn't match an error with a message, it just gave you the last error in the list, whether it applied or not! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:11 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I must be on a nostalgia kick today. The first compiler I learned to use was from Digital Research and was called CB-80. It was a BASIC compiler. I still remember my favourite error message: "An error has been detected for which there is no error message." Stuff like that makes MS-Help look eloquent. See? It's all a question of context. I remember some C/PM programs that actually expected their users to be able to enter Hex numbers! One night long ago, I had a dream in which I FINALLY figured out how to translate decimal into hex and vice-versa, in my head. My then-wife told me about it next morning. Apparently, I awoke suddenly, sat bolt upright and said, "Yes! 16 times 4 is 64! Now I get it!" and promptly fell back asleep. She left me shortly thereafter. A. P.S. This has happened more than once. I have a dream that solves some programming problem, and soon afterwards my significant woman departs :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:14 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Of course it doesn't....that would make life too easy! LOL. I love getting error messages that are so vague they let to spin your wheels for a few days before you accidentally trip over the solution! Gotta love it! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 11:12:35 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:12:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: That's exactly the point, Drew. If FirstName is a class, then that statement is invalid. But you can't tell by looking at it, now can you? Are you suggesting that you look at the way something is used in code to determine what kind of thing it is? You DO turn on Option Explicit don't you?? Have you have *NEVER* typed something like Set Whatever = 5 or Frm = Forms!MyForm Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 11:16:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:16:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Fri Aug 13 11:26:37 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:26:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDBE@DISABILITYINS01> My first real dive into the programming waters: I was a Technician fixing boards for Megatek corp in San Diego. My test station had a Data General Nova mini computer with about 32kb of memory. I found the old star trek program (very crude, drew "maps" on a terminal with stars and ships and stuff) on the hard disk, written in some variant of Basic. The basic interpreter took about 20kbytes. The program took 16 kbytes. I only had 32 kbytes so the program wouldn't run. I could however view it in an editor so I printed the program out on a TTY roll of paper (the old yellow stuff for all you old farts) and started trying to figure out how to get it to fit in the available memory. This was the early 80s (82 perhaps?) and this version of basic didn't even have functions or subs (or maybe it did and the author just didn't use them?). Anyway, I started drawing lines from the goto statement to the line where the program execution resumed (the target line). That exercise demonstrated where the term "spaghetti code" came from. The result looked pretty much like a drawing of a sheet of spaghetti. I never did get it working, but I did replace it with a similar game written from scratch using Turbo Pascal which I learned shortly thereafter. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions And LOTS of gotos. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:58 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, when I was a kid, I did program in Basic.....good ol' DOS. No naming convention at all, no classes, just ABC, and XYZ. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just saying that you probably were not programming when no one used naming conventions. Not a dig at your experience/ability at all. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions About 5 years (give or take a bit, depending on what system we are talking about). Just out of curiousity, what does this prove? When someone with this vast programming experience has a networking issue, shouldn't they have all that experience working with computers, to just figure out what is wrong? Should I ask them how long they have been using computers for? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWh oIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariable Repr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Fri Aug 13 11:28:00 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:28:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDBF@DISABILITYINS01> LOL. Since it OBVIOUSLY wasn't aimed at ME I was just going to let it slide. ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 11:35:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:35:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB295@main2.marlow.com> Francisco, my point is that both methods are valid. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I had >a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the client >asked. But when developing other software, which did not have such client >restraints, then I would use the method that I work the fastest in, and find >the most convenient to use. That saves my clients time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in applying >one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you don't have to >change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 11:41:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:41:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB296@main2.marlow.com> And GoSubs....oh, the GoSub! (Reminiscing) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions And LOTS of gotos. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:58 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, when I was a kid, I did program in Basic.....good ol' DOS. No naming convention at all, no classes, just ABC, and XYZ. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just saying that you probably were not programming when no one used naming conventions. Not a dig at your experience/ability at all. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions About 5 years (give or take a bit, depending on what system we are talking about). Just out of curiousity, what does this prove? When someone with this vast programming experience has a networking issue, shouldn't they have all that experience working with computers, to just figure out what is wrong? Should I ask them how long they have been using computers for? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWh oIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariable Repr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 11:46:51 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:46:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB297@main2.marlow.com> ROTFLMAO! Nope, 'my' argument is that I think that neither way is wrong. All methods are valid if consistent. JC keeps saying this way or that way is wrong. So, the argument is that JC thinks his way or the high way, (or at least you're using horribly icky bad practices.....), and I think you can use any naming convention you want (as long as the customer hasn't specified differently). This, in fact, is the same argument I make in most of these debates: Bound/Unbound (Neither is right or wrong, all depends on what you need to do). LookUpField (using or not using it is fine) Surrogate/Natural key (never really paid much attention to these threads. I personally use surrogate keys, but if you want to use naturals....so be it.) Being flexible is far easier to defend then being rigidly against something. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 10:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions LOL! Ah, yes. That famous Drew argument: "I win because you're *wrong*"! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions No, I am implying that I am flexible, and 'you' (the 'we' camp) are not. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions <<...should be reconsidered sometimes. Maybe you should reconsider. Again you imply that we are wrong. We are only pointing out what is considered a better way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Fri Aug 13 11:47:43 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:47:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC0@DISABILITYINS01> LOL. I'm reading a book called 123 magic to teach parents a method of establishing discipline for small children (ages 2 to 12 - my 3+ year old in this case). The theory behind the book is that the child will do ANYTHING to get a reaction of any kind, for the simple reason that it gives them a feeling of power when they are really pretty much powerless. Any time you argue with the child, the argument can not be won simply because the POINT of the argument is not winning or losing, being right or being wrong, learning something new etc. but just that the argument itself gives a feeling of power. They are causing something to happen. An interesting perspective. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions That's exactly the point, Drew. If FirstName is a class, then that statement is invalid. But you can't tell by looking at it, now can you? Are you suggesting that you look at the way something is used in code to determine what kind of thing it is? You DO turn on Option Explicit don't you?? Have you have *NEVER* typed something like Set Whatever = 5 or Frm = Forms!MyForm Charlotte Foust From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 11:49:44 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:49:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB298@main2.marlow.com> How is it obviously wrong? It's only wrong if Hungarian is actually used. Also, when in the world would you ever have to manually check that code? Just running that code will cause it to fail, and the debugger will show you where it's failing. The only time you need to 'look' through code, is when the code runs, but the results don't match. So I still don't understand this type of argument for using one naming convention over another. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 10:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Easy one. objInventoryItem = 5 is obivously wrong but ii = 5 is NOT obviously wrong. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:01 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 12:30:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:30:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB299@main2.marlow.com> Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 12:37:14 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:37:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 12:40:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:40:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB29B@main2.marlow.com> Who cares if you can tell by looking at it. If you wrote code like this: Dim cmb As ComboBox cmb=Me.cmbSomeCombo when you tried to run it, it is going to error. You can't say that Hungarian prevents you from having brain farts! No naming convention will do that. On top of that, no matter what convention you use, if you goof, more then likely you won't catch it just by looking at your code anyways. Ever proof read you're own work? You're mind has a nifty way of seeing what it thought it told you to write..... The argument that maintenance developers need to 'read' your code implies that your code is working in the first place. To successfully make a change in someones working code, you should understand the ENTIRE process before changing anything. Therefore, it shouldn't matter if you need to read the whole procedure before making a change, because you should be doing that just to insure that you aren't stepping on the code's toes. Still no comment on the With statement. It seems that so much of this 'Hungarian way or the Highway' is based upon having everything explicitly laid out in each line. Wouldn't that same principle mean that using a With statement is bad practice also, since it is referencing an object that could be several lines above the line you are looking at? If find it odd that I brought it up twice, and had no 'Hungarianonian' chime in about it. Maybe because if they applied their principles to the With statement, they wouldn't be able to use it anymore (and we all know how convenient the With statement can be.......uh oh....it's convenient....better not use it....LOL) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions That's exactly the point, Drew. If FirstName is a class, then that statement is invalid. But you can't tell by looking at it, now can you? Are you suggesting that you look at the way something is used in code to determine what kind of thing it is? You DO turn on Option Explicit don't you?? Have you have *NEVER* typed something like Set Whatever = 5 or Frm = Forms!MyForm Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 12:49:32 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:49:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB29C@main2.marlow.com> ROTFLMAO. Very interesting perspective. JC Quotes: >> And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. << >>Yea. Sorry bout that. I do get a little uh... harsh sometimes.<< Either trying to get a reaction, or apologizing for trying to get one.... Actually my little girl has learned that if she wants to change my mind about letting her do/get something, she has to present valid arguments. She's getting pretty good. Not too mention VERY creative. In fact, she would probably be a lot better at convincing the world to use Hungarian then most of the Hungarianonians on the List! (The little doe eyes don't hurt either.....along with a pout or two). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions LOL. I'm reading a book called 123 magic to teach parents a method of establishing discipline for small children (ages 2 to 12 - my 3+ year old in this case). The theory behind the book is that the child will do ANYTHING to get a reaction of any kind, for the simple reason that it gives them a feeling of power when they are really pretty much powerless. Any time you argue with the child, the argument can not be won simply because the POINT of the argument is not winning or losing, being right or being wrong, learning something new etc. but just that the argument itself gives a feeling of power. They are causing something to happen. An interesting perspective. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions That's exactly the point, Drew. If FirstName is a class, then that statement is invalid. But you can't tell by looking at it, now can you? Are you suggesting that you look at the way something is used in code to determine what kind of thing it is? You DO turn on Option Explicit don't you?? Have you have *NEVER* typed something like Set Whatever = 5 or Frm = Forms!MyForm Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 12:50:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:50:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Drew, Have you *ever* been through a code review? It doesn't sound like it because if you had, you would understand why it matters if you can tell by looking at it. We don't just rely on running the code to test it, we spot the obvious errors by looking at it in company. When someone else is looking at your code and pointing out egregious errors, you quickly learn to read it yourself because you're going to have to explain WHY you did that ... Assuming you can. Do you really write code and run it, fix an error, run it, fix an error, run it, ad nauseum, until you have found all the obvious errors? If I find one error, I assume there may be others and read through the code looking at them. I'm not saying you can't do it the other way, but I'd rather have it run without the error messages to tell me I screwed up. And I *surely* don't want someone else to point out my mistakes to me when I can spot them for myself if I just look. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:40 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Who cares if you can tell by looking at it. If you wrote code like this: Dim cmb As ComboBox cmb=Me.cmbSomeCombo when you tried to run it, it is going to error. You can't say that Hungarian prevents you from having brain farts! No naming convention will do that. On top of that, no matter what convention you use, if you goof, more then likely you won't catch it just by looking at your code anyways. Ever proof read you're own work? You're mind has a nifty way of seeing what it thought it told you to write..... The argument that maintenance developers need to 'read' your code implies that your code is working in the first place. To successfully make a change in someones working code, you should understand the ENTIRE process before changing anything. Therefore, it shouldn't matter if you need to read the whole procedure before making a change, because you should be doing that just to insure that you aren't stepping on the code's toes. Still no comment on the With statement. It seems that so much of this 'Hungarian way or the Highway' is based upon having everything explicitly laid out in each line. Wouldn't that same principle mean that using a With statement is bad practice also, since it is referencing an object that could be several lines above the line you are looking at? If find it odd that I brought it up twice, and had no 'Hungarianonian' chime in about it. Maybe because if they applied their principles to the With statement, they wouldn't be able to use it anymore (and we all know how convenient the With statement can be.......uh oh....it's convenient....better not use it....LOL) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions That's exactly the point, Drew. If FirstName is a class, then that statement is invalid. But you can't tell by looking at it, now can you? Are you suggesting that you look at the way something is used in code to determine what kind of thing it is? You DO turn on Option Explicit don't you?? Have you have *NEVER* typed something like Set Whatever = 5 or Frm = Forms!MyForm Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 12:57:10 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:57:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB29E@main2.marlow.com> I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 13:02:08 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:02:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Drew, I'm not trying to make this personal, but I think it's time I stop my part in this "discussion". I don't remember a "With Statement" thread, which means it may not have been worth my time to reply or something outside the list came up that needed my attention. There is no rule requiring anyone to post a reply, and I sometimes get fed up with beating my head against a stone wall and abandon the attempt, since it is obviously non-productive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 13:05:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:05:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB29F@main2.marlow.com> I don't work with a 'team' of developers, actually, I usually end up reveiwing other peoples code. We have several 'ad hoc' developers here, who work on their own projects. I either get pulled in to fix something they can't do, or to reveiw their projects before they go live. In that process, I have NEVER cared what naming convention they have used, as long as they were somewhat consistant. I'm more concerned with logic, efficiency, and stability. Using a network .mdb for a critical manufacturing system is a bad idea. It should be done locally, and the data should be 'pushed' to the network in a separate process. Whether the coder used For I=1 to 100, or For intLoopCount= 1 to 100 doesn't matter one flip to me. No, I do not write code, run it, fix it, run it, fix it, etc. If I find an error, I double check everything. I still don't get the connection to Hungarian though. I would find more errors, especially in my scripting code, if I stick with a strict Hungarian naming convention, just simply for the bigger chance of a typo. As for plain old VB/VBA, are you saying that with Hungarian, you write perfect code? Impressive, my hats off to you. I find that in VB/VBA, I will have the same number of issues to deal with no matter what convention I am using. More often then not, the issues I am dealing with have to do with Network security, or doing something a little too off the wall, and I've hit a glitch. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Have you *ever* been through a code review? It doesn't sound like it because if you had, you would understand why it matters if you can tell by looking at it. We don't just rely on running the code to test it, we spot the obvious errors by looking at it in company. When someone else is looking at your code and pointing out egregious errors, you quickly learn to read it yourself because you're going to have to explain WHY you did that ... Assuming you can. Do you really write code and run it, fix an error, run it, fix an error, run it, ad nauseum, until you have found all the obvious errors? If I find one error, I assume there may be others and read through the code looking at them. I'm not saying you can't do it the other way, but I'd rather have it run without the error messages to tell me I screwed up. And I *surely* don't want someone else to point out my mistakes to me when I can spot them for myself if I just look. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:40 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Who cares if you can tell by looking at it. If you wrote code like this: Dim cmb As ComboBox cmb=Me.cmbSomeCombo when you tried to run it, it is going to error. You can't say that Hungarian prevents you from having brain farts! No naming convention will do that. On top of that, no matter what convention you use, if you goof, more then likely you won't catch it just by looking at your code anyways. Ever proof read you're own work? You're mind has a nifty way of seeing what it thought it told you to write..... The argument that maintenance developers need to 'read' your code implies that your code is working in the first place. To successfully make a change in someones working code, you should understand the ENTIRE process before changing anything. Therefore, it shouldn't matter if you need to read the whole procedure before making a change, because you should be doing that just to insure that you aren't stepping on the code's toes. Still no comment on the With statement. It seems that so much of this 'Hungarian way or the Highway' is based upon having everything explicitly laid out in each line. Wouldn't that same principle mean that using a With statement is bad practice also, since it is referencing an object that could be several lines above the line you are looking at? If find it odd that I brought it up twice, and had no 'Hungarianonian' chime in about it. Maybe because if they applied their principles to the With statement, they wouldn't be able to use it anymore (and we all know how convenient the With statement can be.......uh oh....it's convenient....better not use it....LOL) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions That's exactly the point, Drew. If FirstName is a class, then that statement is invalid. But you can't tell by looking at it, now can you? Are you suggesting that you look at the way something is used in code to determine what kind of thing it is? You DO turn on Option Explicit don't you?? Have you have *NEVER* typed something like Set Whatever = 5 or Frm = Forms!MyForm Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 13:19:39 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:19:39 -0500 Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A1@main2.marlow.com> Here ya go, a new thread. Is the With Statement bad practice, because it's entire purpose is to remove the root object from your code, effectively orphaning chunks of code? With the use of the With Statement, you cannot directly tell from an individual line of code what is being done, and what is doing it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I'm not trying to make this personal, but I think it's time I stop my part in this "discussion". I don't remember a "With Statement" thread, which means it may not have been worth my time to reply or something outside the list came up that needed my attention. There is no rule requiring anyone to post a reply, and I sometimes get fed up with beating my head against a stone wall and abandon the attempt, since it is obviously non-productive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Fri Aug 13 13:32:24 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:32:24 -0400 Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FED77@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> As I understand it it's a good thing because it does not cause the object to resolve itself everytime you call a method or property. To clarify, when I call oMyObject.Property the reference to oMyObject has to be confirmed to exist (<> Nothing) with each call. Using With eliminates that AFAIK. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Here ya go, a new thread. Is the With Statement bad practice, because it's entire purpose is to remove the root object from your code, effectively orphaning chunks of code? With the use of the With Statement, you cannot directly tell from an individual line of code what is being done, and what is doing it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I'm not trying to make this personal, but I think it's time I stop my part in this "discussion". I don't remember a "With Statement" thread, which means it may not have been worth my time to reply or something outside the list came up that needed my attention. There is no rule requiring anyone to post a reply, and I sometimes get fed up with beating my head against a stone wall and abandon the attempt, since it is obviously non-productive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri Aug 13 13:36:30 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:36:30 -0400 Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3093798D@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB75E@ADGSERVER> I think it is supposed to actually help speed up the code in many situations because it does not have to decode the full reference each time. I think that this is true especially with recordsets. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Here ya go, a new thread. Is the With Statement bad practice, because it's entire purpose is to remove the root object from your code, effectively orphaning chunks of code? With the use of the With Statement, you cannot directly tell from an individual line of code what is being done, and what is doing it. Drew From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 13:41:20 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:41:20 -0700 Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Message-ID: I don't remember ever seeing this topic, Drew. It's possible I was out of town or my computer was in the shop for two weeks when it came up. If you don't like it, don't use it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 10:20 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Here ya go, a new thread. Is the With Statement bad practice, because it's entire purpose is to remove the root object from your code, effectively orphaning chunks of code? With the use of the With Statement, you cannot directly tell from an individual line of code what is being done, and what is doing it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I'm not trying to make this personal, but I think it's time I stop my part in this "discussion". I don't remember a "With Statement" thread, which means it may not have been worth my time to reply or something outside the list came up that needed my attention. There is no rule requiring anyone to post a reply, and I sometimes get fed up with beating my head against a stone wall and abandon the attempt, since it is obviously non-productive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 13:42:54 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:42:54 -0700 Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I believe that is the purpose. Whether it actually works that way or not, I'll leave to someone else to wrestle with. I know that's what Ken Getz claimed when it was first introduce, and Ken really ought to know. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 10:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions As I understand it it's a good thing because it does not cause the object to resolve itself everytime you call a method or property. To clarify, when I call oMyObject.Property the reference to oMyObject has to be confirmed to exist (<> Nothing) with each call. Using With eliminates that AFAIK. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Here ya go, a new thread. Is the With Statement bad practice, because it's entire purpose is to remove the root object from your code, effectively orphaning chunks of code? With the use of the With Statement, you cannot directly tell from an individual line of code what is being done, and what is doing it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I'm not trying to make this personal, but I think it's time I stop my part in this "discussion". I don't remember a "With Statement" thread, which means it may not have been worth my time to reply or something outside the list came up that needed my attention. There is no rule requiring anyone to post a reply, and I sometimes get fed up with beating my head against a stone wall and abandon the attempt, since it is obviously non-productive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". ************************************************************************ *********** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 13 14:50:27 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:50:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <232419D8B637CB478F9B3EEA9FE37BCF0243DD17@ahrc01b1e0151.hoffman.army.mil> Message-ID: <047301c4816e$c8139a10$6601a8c0@rock> Ah but the world is not round, except in the vaguest sense. Certainly it is more round than flat, but actually it's shaped more like a Japanese orange (with squashed top and bottom) than a sphere. And in fact, if you happen to follow some modern physics and philosophy, even this analogy may be wrong. If reality is in fact an involuted hypersphere, then "round" or "flat" or "Japanese orange" are all moot. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brock, Christian T, HRC-Alexandria Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions That is a canard. A myth told to children. Every educated person since the Ancient Greeks knew the world was round. Christian Brock -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:48 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 15:31:26 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:31:26 -0500 Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conve nti ons Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A4@main2.marlow.com> Grin, I knew that actually. I was asking the Hungarianonians. LOL, cause it goes against their principle of keeping all possible information in the line of code that is being run. (Okay, being a smarta$$, I know....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons As I understand it it's a good thing because it does not cause the object to resolve itself everytime you call a method or property. To clarify, when I call oMyObject.Property the reference to oMyObject has to be confirmed to exist (<> Nothing) with each call. Using With eliminates that AFAIK. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Here ya go, a new thread. Is the With Statement bad practice, because it's entire purpose is to remove the root object from your code, effectively orphaning chunks of code? With the use of the With Statement, you cannot directly tell from an individual line of code what is being done, and what is doing it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I'm not trying to make this personal, but I think it's time I stop my part in this "discussion". I don't remember a "With Statement" thread, which means it may not have been worth my time to reply or something outside the list came up that needed my attention. There is no rule requiring anyone to post a reply, and I sometimes get fed up with beating my head against a stone wall and abandon the attempt, since it is obviously non-productive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 15:32:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:32:14 -0500 Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conve nti ons Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A5@main2.marlow.com> I wasn't a topic. It was part of several replies to the Naming Conventions thread. It was just ignored, over and over. I was wondering if my posts were being completely read or not....guess not. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons I don't remember ever seeing this topic, Drew. It's possible I was out of town or my computer was in the shop for two weeks when it came up. If you don't like it, don't use it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 10:20 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Here ya go, a new thread. Is the With Statement bad practice, because it's entire purpose is to remove the root object from your code, effectively orphaning chunks of code? With the use of the With Statement, you cannot directly tell from an individual line of code what is being done, and what is doing it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I'm not trying to make this personal, but I think it's time I stop my part in this "discussion". I don't remember a "With Statement" thread, which means it may not have been worth my time to reply or something outside the list came up that needed my attention. There is no rule requiring anyone to post a reply, and I sometimes get fed up with beating my head against a stone wall and abandon the attempt, since it is obviously non-productive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From MPorter at acsalaska.com Fri Aug 13 15:44:01 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:44:01 -0800 Subject: OT - was: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <635B80FE6C7D5A409586A6A110D97D170E4C1A@ACSANCHOR.corp.acsalaska.com> Some would beg to differ... www.flat-earth.org Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:50 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Ah but the world is not round, except in the vaguest sense. > Certainly it > is more round than flat, but actually it's shaped more like a Japanese > orange (with squashed top and bottom) than a sphere. And in > fact, if you > happen to follow some modern physics and philosophy, even this analogy > may be wrong. If reality is in fact an involuted hypersphere, then > "round" or "flat" or "Japanese orange" are all moot. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brock, > Christian T, HRC-Alexandria > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:44 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > That is a canard. A myth told to children. Every educated > person since > the Ancient Greeks knew the world was round. > > Christian Brock > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:48 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that > were in the > field for years, thought the world was flat. > > Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? > > Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't > come close > to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof > that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > *********************************************************************************** 13/8/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: InterScan_Disclaimer.txt URL: From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 15:56:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:56:17 -0500 Subject: OT - was: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A6@main2.marlow.com> LOL, loved the Springfield theory.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Porter, Mark Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 3:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: OT - was: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Some would beg to differ... www.flat-earth.org Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:50 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Ah but the world is not round, except in the vaguest sense. > Certainly it > is more round than flat, but actually it's shaped more like a Japanese > orange (with squashed top and bottom) than a sphere. And in > fact, if you > happen to follow some modern physics and philosophy, even this analogy > may be wrong. If reality is in fact an involuted hypersphere, then > "round" or "flat" or "Japanese orange" are all moot. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brock, > Christian T, HRC-Alexandria > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:44 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > That is a canard. A myth told to children. Every educated > person since > the Ancient Greeks knew the world was round. > > Christian Brock > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:48 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that > were in the > field for years, thought the world was flat. > > Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? > > Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't > come close > to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof > that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > **************************************************************************** ******* 13/8/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS From Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil Fri Aug 13 16:21:51 2004 From: Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil (Brock, Christian T, HRC-Alexandria) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 17:21:51 -0400 Subject: OT - was: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <232419D8B637CB478F9B3EEA9FE37BCF0243DF5A@ahrc01b1e0151.hoffman.army.mil> Willful fools are always an exception. Christian Brock -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Friday, 13 August 2004 16:44 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: OT - was: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Some would beg to differ... www.flat-earth.org Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:50 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Ah but the world is not round, except in the vaguest sense. > Certainly it > is more round than flat, but actually it's shaped more like a Japanese > orange (with squashed top and bottom) than a sphere. And in > fact, if you > happen to follow some modern physics and philosophy, even this analogy > may be wrong. If reality is in fact an involuted hypersphere, then > "round" or "flat" or "Japanese orange" are all moot. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brock, > Christian T, HRC-Alexandria > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:44 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > That is a canard. A myth told to children. Every educated > person since > the Ancient Greeks knew the world was round. > > Christian Brock > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:48 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that > were in the > field for years, thought the world was flat. > > Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? > > Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't > come close > to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof > that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > **************************************************************************** ******* 13/8/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 13 18:31:14 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 19:31:14 -0400 Subject: OT - was: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <232419D8B637CB478F9B3EEA9FE37BCF0243DF5A@ahrc01b1e0151.hoffman.army.mil> Message-ID: <04b101c4818d$a05c4570$6601a8c0@rock> Maybe in your universe. Sadly, in mine they appear to be the rule. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brock, Christian T, HRC-Alexandria Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 5:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: OT - was: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Willful fools are always an exception. Christian Brock From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Aug 14 02:07:14 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 00:07:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA AccessObfuscation Contest In-Reply-To: <032e01c4808f$c7e72730$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Here is a modest contribution, of a function, from some old code (Goes back fifteen years and I still support this site.) A few hints as to how the language works: 1. All variable must be declared, are case sensitive, prefixed with a '$' sign, but the built in functions are not case sensitive. 2. The '\' symbol is used as a wrap line like VBA's '& _'. 3. It uses the 'Return' statement instead of VBA's weird 'check_date = $error' coding structure. 4. All functions calls must be prefixed with a '_'. 5. True = 1 and False = 0 6. 'Match''s matches are case sensitive and is similar to a variation of the 'Instr' function. 7. A phrase like (a = b) will produce either a 1 or a 0. (True or False) 8. Variables a not pre-typed but once initialized with a numeric or string will then behave as if they were typed. FUNCTION _check_date($temp) LOCAL $month, $day, $year, $back1, $back2, $deliminator $error = 1 if val(right($temp,4)) > 1900 $year = val(right($temp,4)) if len(trim($temp)) = 11 $month = proper(mid($temp,4,3)) $month = (match("JanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDec",$month)+2)/3 $day = val(left($temp,2)) else $month = val(left($temp,2)) $day = val(mid($temp,4,2)) end if $deliminator = mid($temp,3,1) $back1 = $deliminator $back2 = $deliminator else $temp = LEFT($temp,8) $month = VAL ( LEFT ( $temp,2 ) ) $day = VAL ( MID ( $temp,4,2 ) ) IF LEN($temp) = 10 $year = VAL ( RIGHT ( $temp,4 )) ELSE $year = VAL ( RIGHT ( $temp,2 )) END IF $deliminator = mid($temp,3,1) $back1 = MID ( $temp,3,1 ) $back2 = MID ( $temp,6,1 ) end if IF ($year * ( $back1 = $deliminator ) * $month * ( $back2 = $deliminator ) * ( $day )) > 0 IF ($month <= 12 AND $day <= 31) IF (( MATCH ( "469",STR($month)) OR $month = 11 ) AND $day < 31 )\ OR (( $month = 2 AND MOD( $year,4 ) AND $day < 29 )\ OR ( $month = 2 AND NOT ( MOD ( $year,4 )) AND $day < 30 ))\ OR ( MATCH ( "1357810",STR($month)) OR $month = 12 ) $error = 0 END IF END IF END IF RETURN($error) END FUNCTION It is not actually Access, as if you haven't guessed but if anyone had the mind they could convert it.... It is not fair to use Access's extensive function library to resolve the previous function just keep it simple and similar. Now what does the previous function do? Previously, two other programmers have attempted to manage the fifty plus code blocks, at an estimated 8.5 thousand lines of code, and quit, shortly after starting. Above is just a small snippet from one functions from one of the libaries. So if anyone feels in a masochistic mood or feels particularly brave, try and convert it to VBA. Jim Lawrence -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA AccessObfuscation Contest The Naming Conventions thread has been most interesting and has prompted me to suggest an annual contest a la the classic DDJ C-Obfuscation contest. The point is to write a geruinely incomprehensible routine that does something useful. It would only make sense if we confined ourselves to say 5 candidate routines, Access-specific of course. Contributors could then submit a "solution" to any of the 5 problems. (A double-prize might be considered for code that does not even make it apparent which problem it is solving!) Step 1 is to gather the list of problems. I venture the following merely as a starting point. I haven't given any of them a lot of consideration, they are nothing more than something to shoot at, if you will. Somehow let's settle on 5 problems worth obfuscating. After that, obfuscation will be, heh heh, obvious. Herewith, 5 problems. Please feel free to shoot them down as insignificant or not worth writing etc. I would love to have the list come up with 5 genuinely interesting problems, on which to base the obfuscated solutions. None of them would be immediately useful in anyone's current project, but I think it would be fun to see the variants that contestants come up with. Five initial examples. Fire at will. Please come up with more interesting problems! 1. For every open form for every textbox make it read-only change the colours 2. Given tables Parent and Child, delete every third Parent record and all her children in the Child table. 3. Manufacture some test data in 4 tables: parent, child1, child2, and child2's child. The routine accepts the number of parents to create and the maximum number of child rows to create. Then it randomly adds kids (and grandkids) to tables 2, 3 and 4 for each parent, using the specified maximum. 4. Delete every file from every directory to which the user has access, while presenting warm and fuzzy messages. (Don't really delete them, just print a message suggesting that could have. Option: Tell them you HAVE deleted them, and offer recovery for $.05 a file. Bring up PayPal to complete the transaction. 5. Create an email to every person in your Outlook Contacts folder, announcing that your surgery was unsuccessful and you are now a refridgerator salesperson in Resolute Bay. Five stupid problems, I admit. Let's come up with five smart problems and then obfuscate their solutions! (At the least, each problem could become an issue of our newsletter, including the various solutions sent in by listers.) One obvious obfuscation technique is purposeful misuse of Hungarian. Dim strValue as Long ' the number of striations per meter of a given cave wall. Dim datLast as Currency ' how much you paid the hooker for your last "date". Dim booLevel as Byte ' scare factor in a horror movie focus group. Dim booLevel as Long ' WWE measurement as reported by microphones. Dim cboAvail as Boolean ' is this jazz musician available for work in a combo? But there are many more. Table names offer abundant opportunities to play. You get the idea, I hope.... Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Aug 14 02:27:20 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 00:27:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Robert: I have found that when running a timer when other code is also running can have odd side-affects. Using the DoEvent structure in your 'Form_Timer()' event could resolve your problems: Private Sub Form_Timer() 'Run a process If Me.TimerInterval > 0 'Do something ... Counter = Counter + 1 'When finished...reset/clear If Counter > 1000 then Me.TimerInterval = 0 End If 'Give process time to work Do While Me.TimerInterval > 0 DoEvents Loop 'Initialize again If If Me.TimerInterval = 0 Then Me.TimerInterval = 100 End Sub HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, I have been dealing with this for over 4 months, and through some serious testing I discovered if I shut down the timer, the problem went away, never to occur again. So that lead me to think that there was something failing or too complex about the code running in the timer. So I ran the timer to "count" and the problem would reoccur. Extraordinarily frustrating!!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions May I suggest, "lost cause"? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find the most convenient to use. That saves my clients >time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Aug 14 03:29:25 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 01:29:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDBE@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: John: You might find this article, about the man who spent a major portion of his life condemning the GOTO and GOSUB commands, interesting. Quote: He was famously the leader in the abolition of the GOTO statement from programming. http://reference.creativesystemdesigns.com/miscellaneous.html#edsger Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions My first real dive into the programming waters: I was a Technician fixing boards for Megatek corp in San Diego. My test station had a Data General Nova mini computer with about 32kb of memory. I found the old star trek program (very crude, drew "maps" on a terminal with stars and ships and stuff) on the hard disk, written in some variant of Basic. The basic interpreter took about 20kbytes. The program took 16 kbytes. I only had 32 kbytes so the program wouldn't run. I could however view it in an editor so I printed the program out on a TTY roll of paper (the old yellow stuff for all you old farts) and started trying to figure out how to get it to fit in the available memory. This was the early 80s (82 perhaps?) and this version of basic didn't even have functions or subs (or maybe it did and the author just didn't use them?). Anyway, I started drawing lines from the goto statement to the line where the program execution resumed (the target line). That exercise demonstrated where the term "spaghetti code" came from. The result looked pretty much like a drawing of a sheet of spaghetti. I never did get it working, but I did replace it with a similar game written from scratch using Turbo Pascal which I learned shortly thereafter. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions And LOTS of gotos. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:58 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, when I was a kid, I did program in Basic.....good ol' DOS. No naming convention at all, no classes, just ABC, and XYZ. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just saying that you probably were not programming when no one used naming conventions. Not a dig at your experience/ability at all. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions About 5 years (give or take a bit, depending on what system we are talking about). Just out of curiousity, what does this prove? When someone with this vast programming experience has a networking issue, shouldn't they have all that experience working with computers, to just figure out what is wrong? Should I ask them how long they have been using computers for? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWh oIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariable Repr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Aug 14 03:27:43 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 01:27:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC0@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: Hi John: Completely off topic but it is Friday the thirteenth. An educated friend of ours had just completed a Masters in Child Psychology and had subsequently been instructing us and her other friends on the proper methods of managing children. Our children, were then young and were proving very difficult to manage (unlike their parents.) She was sure she could get them in line within a couple of weeks, if given the opportunity. She had her first son and he was unstoppable. All of us quietly mused, that there was justice in the universe. I remember her saying to me, when I had appears to be about to say something, at her sister-in-laws wedding reception, in which her son was racing around unfettered and she having collapsed in the adjacent chair..."Don't say anything! I have been eating crow for the last six months." My point is: No amount of preparation or education can allow you to win control of a 'force of nature'. ...and further more... A compromise can not be won against those who's creed is 'Death before Dishonor'. True stubbornness can not be resolved by tact or diplomacy. (It can not be resolved by anything for that matter.) ...and that is my rambling opinions. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions LOL. I'm reading a book called 123 magic to teach parents a method of establishing discipline for small children (ages 2 to 12 - my 3+ year old in this case). The theory behind the book is that the child will do ANYTHING to get a reaction of any kind, for the simple reason that it gives them a feeling of power when they are really pretty much powerless. Any time you argue with the child, the argument can not be won simply because the POINT of the argument is not winning or losing, being right or being wrong, learning something new etc. but just that the argument itself gives a feeling of power. They are causing something to happen. An interesting perspective. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions That's exactly the point, Drew. If FirstName is a class, then that statement is invalid. But you can't tell by looking at it, now can you? Are you suggesting that you look at the way something is used in code to determine what kind of thing it is? You DO turn on Option Explicit don't you?? Have you have *NEVER* typed something like Set Whatever = 5 or Frm = Forms!MyForm Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Aug 14 09:57:13 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:57:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk In-Reply-To: <801939528.20040802093720@cactus.dk> References: <20040801235955.LYUN1916.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> Message-ID: <411DF009.18653.79EDE8@localhost> On 2 Aug 2004 at 9:37, Gustav Brock wrote: > > In future, could this be brought to my attention off-list. > > Sorry, but I had forgotten you were in charge of this. No worries. Forgiven. This time ;-) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We are Microsoft. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Aug 14 09:57:12 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:57:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB23A@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <411DF008.27837.79ECCF@localhost> On 6 Aug 2004 at 11:24, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > I do think that if you have to scroll through a previous email, to get > to it's reply, then it should have been a top post, to allow us to > read the reply, and go backwards if we want. It's not laziness that > promotes top-posting, it's forgetfulness that prompts bottom-posting. I think the lazy folks are the top posters, because they don't/won't trim what isn't necessary. The post I am replying to had 3 AccessD footers in in. Not 1 of them made it past my bottom post. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I've learned.... That the less time I have to work with, the more things I get done. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Aug 14 09:57:12 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:57:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <200408060814.i768E1Q01532@databaseadvisors.com> References: <000901c47b5d$85779c40$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <411DF008.9116.79ED29@localhost> On 6 Aug 2004 at 9:08, Max14-1 wrote: > I personally NEVER read a message that is bottom posted. If I cannot Pitty. You are missing some great info then. But it's your choice. > then I just dump it. There is no way that I personally have to time > to scroll down each and every message to see what the latest input is. Most bottom posters don't include everything. They only include the relevant material, so scrolling is usually not a problem. > I would also prefer to have ALL the history repeated - regardless of > bandwith. Again, due to time restraints, if I do take an interest in Yes, but there are folks out there that pay for all the bandwidth consumed. Also there are folks still on slow dial-ups that can't afford the time it takes to download the extra badnwidth. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore, I am perfect. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Aug 14 09:57:13 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:57:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB724@ADGSERVER> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30929096@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <411DF009.14295.79ED8D@localhost> On 6 Aug 2004 at 8:45, Bobby Heid wrote: > But I think it is a personal choice kind of thing. Most people what Yep, unless the list rules require bottom posting. > It really does not matter to me where people post. But one thing that > really pisses me off on some of the Redhat/Fedora Linux mailing lists > is that it is a giant issue that some Linux gods (as they think they > are) have deemed that bottom posting is the law. There have been many Yes, but they make the rules for their list. If you want to participate, then you have to foillow the rules. You may not agree with the rules, but you need to follow them. > So, can't we all just get along? LOL. I sure hope so. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I don't suffer from stress. I am a carrier. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Aug 14 09:57:13 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:57:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk In-Reply-To: References: <20040801235955.LYUN1916.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> Message-ID: <411DF009.8823.79EE42@localhost> On 1 Aug 2004 at 20:15, Jim Lawrence (AccessD) wrote: > Thank you for ruining your holiday...Your wife must be extremely > understanding. This didn't ruin my vacation. The %&($ crappy weather did :( -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Aug 14 09:57:13 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:57:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <00a101c47b4a$e4345dd0$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <411DF009.17749.79EEA6@localhost> On 6 Aug 2004 at 10:18, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Here's a Friday rant - is there a reason that people are replying to > emails and putting their response at the bottom of the message instead > of at the top? It's so much harder to quickly read through - you have > to scroll down and find the response. > > I know that sometimes you have to do this when you are replying to > different *parts* of the message - but otherwise - what the reason? Let me start by saying that I'm sorry for resurrecting a dead thread, but I just need to add my $0.02 worth to it, now that I'm back from vacation. The main reason for bottom posting is netiquitte. It's only since OE and OL became as wide spread as they are that top posting became popular. Most folks, when top posting (and I'm guilty of it when I post from work) don't bother to snip ANYTHING in their reply. You get multiple copies of the mailing list fotter, plus any other footer that outgoing that mail servers add. Let's take a couple of extreme examples. 1) When I got back from vacation, I had an e-mail from the list software telling me that a post was held because it was too big. It was a reply to a thread and it was OVER 40K, for 2 short lines of text. It include 10, yep TEN copies of the AccessD list footer. Not to mention the fact that the 2 short lines of reply had nothing to do with then 8 previosly FULLY quoted emails. The only one that was relevant was the most recent one. A bottom poster would have gotten rid of all the extraneous stuff. 2) Another example of this is a post in this thread. A top post that is only 3 lines long that is over 10K. That is even bigger than Stuart's large bottom post e-mail, which was mostly new content and only weighed in at 9.1K. Then On 6 Aug 2004 at 11:42, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous form > - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them scroll all > the way down to see the latest data? Nope. It goes at the bottom. Oldest at the top. Newest at the bottom. Just like everything else I do. I need context, the older stuff, before I can understand the new stuff. > on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. I guess the > question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this topic? There isn't any netiquitte for top/bottom posting, nor is there any for trimming irelevant material. It's all left up to the individual. Then On 6 Aug 2004 at 12:31, you wrote: > the result is going to be that everyone starts bottom posting and I'll > bitterly regret raising the topic!! Never regret doing anything that causes everyone to examine why they do what they do. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca A pat on the back is only a few inches from a kick in the butt. From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Sat Aug 14 11:10:32 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 11:10:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658BD@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Jim, Are you sure that Dijkstra actually condemned GOSUB statements? Practically everyone in the computer science community knows about his groundbreaking "GOTO statements considered harmful" paper, but I have never heard this applied to GOSUBs. In some older BASIC languages, a GOSUB statement was used in a similar manner to CALL, in that it would execute a separate subroutine, and return to the exact same point in the calling routine when complete. This concept is directly in line with the tenets of structured programming, and IMHO a vital tool for modularizing code into manageable blocks. Contrast this with the "evil" GOTO statement, which allowed one to jump mindlessly from procedure to procedure, with no specific rule as to where code execution resumed. Spaghetti code, anyone? Now here's the part of the message where I'll probably stir up a pointless debate. I have used GOSUB statements for years in my AccessBasic, VB and VBA code, and only recently stopped doing so because the outdated syntax is confusing to someone unfamiliar with its use. I personally try to avoid global variables (another debate in itself), and limit the use of modular variables. In routines using several procedure-level variables, breaking an unwieldy procedure into smaller ones involves passing multiple arguments to the child routines. A possible alternative is to break code blocks into separate sections of the same routine and call it with GoSub. Not only do you have the benefit of sharing all of your procedure level variables, but the code is kept bundled with your main sub. I found this approach to be elegant and useful. Many people would pan it as clunky, outdated, and even arcane. Eventually I stopped doing it mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 3:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John: You might find this article, about the man who spent a major portion of his life condemning the GOTO and GOSUB commands, interesting. Quote: He was famously the leader in the abolition of the GOTO statement from programming. http://reference.creativesystemdesigns.com/miscellaneous.html#edsger Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From artful at rogers.com Sat Aug 14 11:37:34 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 12:37:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <052901c4821d$010f2a10$6601a8c0@rock> Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 14 11:43:37 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 12:43:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658BD@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <000001c4821d$dc662280$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> >Eventually I stopped doing it mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. Yes, but if you could get a significant portion of people to use this then.... Uhh... Never mind. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 12:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Jim, Are you sure that Dijkstra actually condemned GOSUB statements? Practically everyone in the computer science community knows about his groundbreaking "GOTO statements considered harmful" paper, but I have never heard this applied to GOSUBs. In some older BASIC languages, a GOSUB statement was used in a similar manner to CALL, in that it would execute a separate subroutine, and return to the exact same point in the calling routine when complete. This concept is directly in line with the tenets of structured programming, and IMHO a vital tool for modularizing code into manageable blocks. Contrast this with the "evil" GOTO statement, which allowed one to jump mindlessly from procedure to procedure, with no specific rule as to where code execution resumed. Spaghetti code, anyone? Now here's the part of the message where I'll probably stir up a pointless debate. I have used GOSUB statements for years in my AccessBasic, VB and VBA code, and only recently stopped doing so because the outdated syntax is confusing to someone unfamiliar with its use. I personally try to avoid global variables (another debate in itself), and limit the use of modular variables. In routines using several procedure-level variables, breaking an unwieldy procedure into smaller ones involves passing multiple arguments to the child routines. A possible alternative is to break code blocks into separate sections of the same routine and call it with GoSub. Not only do you have the benefit of sharing all of your procedure level variables, but the code is kept bundled with your main sub. I found this approach to be elegant and useful. Many people would pan it as clunky, outdated, and even arcane. Eventually I stopped doing it mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Aug 14 12:56:21 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:56:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658BD@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: Hi Brett: I must admit I never read anything directly actual panning GOSUBS and I can see you point about them being similar to function/subroutine calls. In the older coding environments there were little flexibility when it came to selection. Dijkstra's main emphasis was on pushing for structured coding. With the creation of structured languages came all the amenities and designing choices that we, as developers enjoy today. He did not condemn use of particular code statements but rather, he encouraged the development of structured development languages. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 9:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Jim, Are you sure that Dijkstra actually condemned GOSUB statements? Practically everyone in the computer science community knows about his groundbreaking "GOTO statements considered harmful" paper, but I have never heard this applied to GOSUBs. In some older BASIC languages, a GOSUB statement was used in a similar manner to CALL, in that it would execute a separate subroutine, and return to the exact same point in the calling routine when complete. This concept is directly in line with the tenets of structured programming, and IMHO a vital tool for modularizing code into manageable blocks. Contrast this with the "evil" GOTO statement, which allowed one to jump mindlessly from procedure to procedure, with no specific rule as to where code execution resumed. Spaghetti code, anyone? Now here's the part of the message where I'll probably stir up a pointless debate. I have used GOSUB statements for years in my AccessBasic, VB and VBA code, and only recently stopped doing so because the outdated syntax is confusing to someone unfamiliar with its use. I personally try to avoid global variables (another debate in itself), and limit the use of modular variables. In routines using several procedure-level variables, breaking an unwieldy procedure into smaller ones involves passing multiple arguments to the child routines. A possible alternative is to break code blocks into separate sections of the same routine and call it with GoSub. Not only do you have the benefit of sharing all of your procedure level variables, but the code is kept bundled with your main sub. I found this approach to be elegant and useful. Many people would pan it as clunky, outdated, and even arcane. Eventually I stopped doing it mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 3:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John: You might find this article, about the man who spent a major portion of his life condemning the GOTO and GOSUB commands, interesting. Quote: He was famously the leader in the abolition of the GOTO statement from programming. http://reference.creativesystemdesigns.com/miscellaneous.html#edsger Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Sat Aug 14 14:57:41 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 14:57:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658BE@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Sure, and while I'm at it I'll also try to convince my coworkers to adopt 2-letter naming conventions. Better get some sleep this weekend. I'm gonna have a busy Monday! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Eventually I stopped doing it mainly for the benefit of others who have >to maintain my code. Yes, but if you could get a significant portion of people to use this then.... Uhh... Never mind. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 12:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Jim, Are you sure that Dijkstra actually condemned GOSUB statements? Practically everyone in the computer science community knows about his groundbreaking "GOTO statements considered harmful" paper, but I have never heard this applied to GOSUBs. In some older BASIC languages, a GOSUB statement was used in a similar manner to CALL, in that it would execute a separate subroutine, and return to the exact same point in the calling routine when complete. This concept is directly in line with the tenets of structured programming, and IMHO a vital tool for modularizing code into manageable blocks. Contrast this with the "evil" GOTO statement, which allowed one to jump mindlessly from procedure to procedure, with no specific rule as to where code execution resumed. Spaghetti code, anyone? Now here's the part of the message where I'll probably stir up a pointless debate. I have used GOSUB statements for years in my AccessBasic, VB and VBA code, and only recently stopped doing so because the outdated syntax is confusing to someone unfamiliar with its use. I personally try to avoid global variables (another debate in itself), and limit the use of modular variables. In routines using several procedure-level variables, breaking an unwieldy procedure into smaller ones involves passing multiple arguments to the child routines. A possible alternative is to break code blocks into separate sections of the same routine and call it with GoSub. Not only do you have the benefit of sharing all of your procedure level variables, but the code is kept bundled with your main sub. I found this approach to be elegant and useful. Many people would pan it as clunky, outdated, and even arcane. Eventually I stopped doing it mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Aug 14 17:01:43 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 18:01:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] color palette control Message-ID: <20040814220140.IKQP8009.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Is there a generic color palette control? I'd like to just display one automatically on a form. Or, if I must, I don't mind displaying the built-in palette -- but I can't figure out how to call it. For my purposes, I think a fixed control would be better. Susan H. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Aug 14 18:47:59 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 09:47:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] color palette control In-Reply-To: <20040814220140.IKQP8009.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <411F314F.1460.9EB4884@lexacorp.com.pg> On 14 Aug 2004 at 18:01, Susan Harkins wrote: > Is there a generic color palette control? I'd like to just display one > automatically on a form. Or, if I must, I don't mind displaying the built-in > palette -- but I can't figure out how to call it. For my purposes, I think a > fixed control would be better. > The ChooseColor common dialog. If the user clicks the OK button of the dialog box, the return value is nonzero. The rgbResult member of the CHOOSECOLOR structure contains the RGB color value of the color selected by the user. Here's some sample code from APIGuide which you can get from http://www.allapi.net (Note that they don't use Hungarian and use i as a loopcounter but I can still follow their code ) Declare Function ChooseColor Lib "comdlg32.dll" Alias "ChooseColorA" (pChoosecolor As CHOOSECOLOR) As Long Private Type CHOOSECOLOR lStructSize As Long hwndOwner As Long hInstance As Long rgbResult As Long lpCustColors As String flags As Long lCustData As Long lpfnHook As Long lpTemplateName As String End Type Dim CustomColors() As Byte 'Redim the variables to store the cutstom colors ReDim CustomColors(0 To 16 * 4 - 1) As Byte Dim i As Integer For i = LBound(CustomColors) To UBound(CustomColors) CustomColors(i) = 0 Next i Private Function ShowColor() As Long Dim cc As CHOOSECOLOR Dim Custcolor(16) As Long Dim lReturn As Long 'set the structure size cc.lStructSize = Len(cc) 'Set the owner cc.hwndOwner = Me.hwnd 'set the application's instance cc.hInstance = App.hInstance 'set the custom colors (converted to Unicode) cc.lpCustColors = StrConv(CustomColors, vbUnicode) 'no extra flags cc.flags = 0 'Show the 'Select Color'-dialog If CHOOSECOLOR(cc) <> 0 Then ShowColor = cc.rgbResult CustomColors = StrConv(cc.lpCustColors, vbFromUnicode) Else ShowColor = -1 End If End Function -- Stuart From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Aug 14 19:00:30 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 20:00:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] color palette control In-Reply-To: <411F314F.1460.9EB4884@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20040815000027.WXGR1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Well, I hadn't even considered an API. ;) Thank you Stuart -- I'll take a look. Susan H. On 14 Aug 2004 at 18:01, Susan Harkins wrote: > Is there a generic color palette control? I'd like to just display one > automatically on a form. Or, if I must, I don't mind displaying the > built-in palette -- but I can't figure out how to call it. For my > purposes, I think a fixed control would be better. > The ChooseColor common dialog. If the user clicks the OK button of the dialog box, the return value is nonzero. The rgbResult member of the CHOOSECOLOR structure contains the RGB color value of the color selected by the user. Here's some sample code from APIGuide which you can get from http://www.allapi.net (Note that they don't use Hungarian and use i as a loopcounter but I can still follow their code ) Declare Function ChooseColor Lib "comdlg32.dll" Alias "ChooseColorA" (pChoosecolor As CHOOSECOLOR) As Long Private Type CHOOSECOLOR lStructSize As Long hwndOwner As Long hInstance As Long rgbResult As Long lpCustColors As String flags As Long lCustData As Long lpfnHook As Long lpTemplateName As String End Type Dim CustomColors() As Byte 'Redim the variables to store the cutstom colors ReDim CustomColors(0 To 16 * 4 - 1) As Byte Dim i As Integer For i = LBound(CustomColors) To UBound(CustomColors) CustomColors(i) = 0 Next i Private Function ShowColor() As Long Dim cc As CHOOSECOLOR Dim Custcolor(16) As Long Dim lReturn As Long 'set the structure size cc.lStructSize = Len(cc) 'Set the owner cc.hwndOwner = Me.hwnd 'set the application's instance cc.hInstance = App.hInstance 'set the custom colors (converted to Unicode) cc.lpCustColors = StrConv(CustomColors, vbUnicode) 'no extra flags cc.flags = 0 'Show the 'Select Color'-dialog If CHOOSECOLOR(cc) <> 0 Then ShowColor = cc.rgbResult CustomColors = StrConv(cc.lpCustColors, vbFromUnicode) Else ShowColor = -1 End If End Function -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcaro at bigpond.net.au Sun Aug 15 02:20:34 2004 From: mcaro at bigpond.net.au (Martin Caro) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 17:20:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OutputTo Message-ID: <000e01c48298$5b3b0150$0100000a@mitmaster> Hi Folks Just having some syntax issues with applying a filter to the query I'm using in the following: stDocName = "qryLocations" FilePath = "C:\temp\LocationReport.XLS" ExportFilter = Me.Filter DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputQuery, stDocName, acFormatXLS, FilePath, True I need to apply a filter string which I have in a global variable ExportFilter - I've tried setting the query filter property and inserting the filter into the DoCmd line but without success so far. Any suggestions? Martin From tortise at paradise.net.nz Sun Aug 15 05:51:25 2004 From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 22:51:25 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! SOLVED - maybe!!! References: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <1196581313.20040316100933@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <0be201c482b5$cff92680$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> Dear Gustav et al This problem has been unsolved for ages, I have turned my attention to it again. It seems to have been fixed by simply copying the memo field contents into a new memo field (same table) and addressing this new memo field instead. Many memo records apparently locked are again free to be saved(!) The old memos are then removed. I am guessing but something was corrupt in the page locking of some of the memo records, that a database repair would not fix... Hope this helps someone else one day.... Kind regards David Hingston Director Chequers Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand. http://www.cheqsoft.com => Engines2go - faster Internet searching => MP3Detective - find your MP3's fast! => Break Reminder - for safe and efficient PC use => TimesOwn - international clock and time difference calculator => Clipboard Express Pro - drag n drop database saves serious time ____________________________________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachment (s) is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee's) or if you receive this email in error then any distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by return email and then delete the message from your computer. Thank you for your assistance. ____________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustav Brock To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! Hi David I have a client fighting with this too. Could you be a little more specific on your solution, please? What are you refreshing and when? Which of the advices mentioned in the forum discussion did you implement? As I read it, you update (save) the record at the BeforeUpdate event of the memo field, then Cancel the update and refresh (requery?) the record? /gustav > Thanks John, > That gave me enough to resolve it. > Also Ref http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/access/access605200.html > For anyone else simply doing a refresh unlocks it! > Kind Regards > David > From: John W. Colby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:38 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > Memo fields are treated differently than the rest of the fields in a record. > They are simply pointers out to a storage area where the actual memo is > stored. Memos still have the "page locking" issue where if another user is > editing another memo that resides in the same physical page as your memo, > yours will be locked. > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tortise > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > Hi > I have a database which intermittently reports memo fields as being locked. > However they are not! Editing the memo field it refuses to update on > attempted save, however text fields still update fine. (!) It is a database > from A2K, that went to A97, back to A2k and now is running (converted) in > A2k3. (Over time!) Repair and compaction makes no difference, neither does > logging off and back on to the windows session. > The same behaviour is exhibited when editing the table as it is from a form. > I'm stumped! > As always any guidance is appreciated. > Kind Regards > David -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sun Aug 15 12:21:55 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:21:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox Message-ID: <00e501c482ec$5d696ee0$6601a8c0@rock> I'm having a senior moment. Given a form containing three controls: txtDateFrom - starting date txtDateTo - ending date lstDates - to contain one row for all dates between from and to inclusive I want to manufacture all dates between the start and end date and populate the listbox with same. I forget how to do it. I'm used to grabbing data using SQL etc. and I suppose I could just build a table containing loads of dates and query that, but I'm wondering how to manufacture the listbox rows instead. Will someone kindly nudge me in the right direction? TIA, Arthur From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 15 12:41:36 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:41:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] add-in key Message-ID: <20040815174132.FQNG1788.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Does anyone know the registry key for add-in's using Windows XP and Access 2003? The best documentation lists HKEY_CURRENT_ACCESS_PROFILE, but I don't have this key. Susan H. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 15 12:47:20 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:47:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox In-Reply-To: <00e501c482ec$5d696ee0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040815174716.FRTW1788.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Arthur, you could create a Recordset populated with the results of your query and then set the list box control's Recordset property to the same. Susan H. I'm having a senior moment. Given a form containing three controls: txtDateFrom - starting date txtDateTo - ending date lstDates - to contain one row for all dates between from and to inclusive I want to manufacture all dates between the start and end date and populate the listbox with same. I forget how to do it. I'm used to grabbing data using SQL etc. and I suppose I could just build a table containing loads of dates and query that, but I'm wondering how to manufacture the listbox rows instead. Will someone kindly nudge me in the right direction? From starkey at wanadoo.nl Sun Aug 15 13:18:20 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:18:20 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox In-Reply-To: <20040815174716.FRTW1788.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <20040815181606.ABBD05ACCE@smtp8.wanadoo.nl> Hi, Use a function for the recordsource and a loop in this function using dateadd to build all dates between 'From' and 'To' making use of static variables:-) Access help has an example of how to built the specific function for this purpose. At least 97/2000 did I believe if not I'll have to look it up for you. Regards, Eric Starkenburg Starkenburg Office Solutions -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens Susan Harkins Verzonden: zondag 15 augustus 2004 19:47 Aan: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Onderwerp: RE: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox Arthur, you could create a Recordset populated with the results of your query and then set the list box control's Recordset property to the same. Susan H. I'm having a senior moment. Given a form containing three controls: txtDateFrom - starting date txtDateTo - ending date lstDates - to contain one row for all dates between from and to inclusive I want to manufacture all dates between the start and end date and populate the listbox with same. I forget how to do it. I'm used to grabbing data using SQL etc. and I suppose I could just build a table containing loads of dates and query that, but I'm wondering how to manufacture the listbox rows instead. Will someone kindly nudge me in the right direction? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _____ avast! Antivirus : Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0433-3, 13-08-2004 Getest op: 15-8-2004 20:18:20 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 15 13:39:19 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 14:39:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox In-Reply-To: <20040815181606.ABBD05ACCE@smtp8.wanadoo.nl> Message-ID: <20040815183915.FJQM1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> In rereading your question Arthur, I think the problem's different from what I first thought -- you need to create those dates? You're not just querying existing data? Susan H. I want to manufacture all dates between the start and end date and populate the listbox with same. I forget how to do it. I'm used to grabbing data using SQL etc. and I suppose I could just build a table containing loads of dates and query that, but I'm wondering how to manufacture the listbox rows instead. From dwaters at usinternet.com Sun Aug 15 14:50:53 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 14:50:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close Message-ID: <000b01c48301$2c8339e0$de1811d8@danwaters> If you have a FE/BE setup, and you've selected Compact on Close, then the last user who exits will trigger a compact on the FE mdb. But, the BE does not compact. This makes sense since the BE is not opened, and is simply acting as a repository for data. Has anyone set up a routine to compact the BE on close? >From within the shutdown code in the FE, I can detect the last user, then use the DBEngine.CompactDatabase function to compact the BE with a new name. Then delete the original BE, then change the name of the compacted BE to the original name, then finally close the FE. Any words of wisdom? If everyone's not too tired from pulverizing Naming Conventions! ;-) Thanks! Dan Waters PS - I very consistently use the dfw naming conventions. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 15 15:40:20 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:40:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] add-in key In-Reply-To: <20040815174132.FQNG1788.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <20040815204021.QXQD14988.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I finally found the entry in the registry, but when I try to run it I get an error but it is in the registry and the mda is compiled. I'm stumped. Susan H. Does anyone know the registry key for add-in's using Windows XP and Access 2003? The best documentation lists HKEY_CURRENT_ACCESS_PROFILE, but I don't have this key. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Aug 15 16:21:28 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:21:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox In-Reply-To: <00e501c482ec$5d696ee0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <41206077.30393.130B3E@lexacorp.com.pg> On 15 Aug 2004 at 13:21, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > I want to manufacture all dates between the start and end date and > populate the listbox with same. I forget how to do it. I'm used to > grabbing data using SQL etc. and I suppose I could just build a table > containing loads of dates and query that, but I'm wondering how to > manufacture the listbox rows instead. > > Here's one way: Private Function FillList(StartDate As Date, EndDate As Date) As Long Dim dteLoop As Date Dim strListSource As String For dteLoop = StartDate To EndDate strListSource = strListSource & ";" & dteLoop Next strListSource = Mid$(strListSource, 2) lstDates.RowSource = strListSource End Function-- Stuart From artful at rogers.com Sun Aug 15 16:24:33 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 17:24:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox In-Reply-To: <20040815183915.FJQM1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <011301c4830e$4230c610$6601a8c0@rock> Turns out the easy way to go was to create a Dates table and a form that generates rows in said table. It looks for Dmax() and offers that as the starting row, then accepts an End date and manufactures rows to suit. Then I can just (from another form) query the Dates table and present the multi-select listbox. Turned out straightforward once I translated previous code from SQL back to MDB. After that it was a piece of cake and works pretty well (unless the user wants to select 100 dates or so; then it's problematic but I'm handing that blame to William Gates). A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 2:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox In rereading your question Arthur, I think the problem's different from what I first thought -- you need to create those dates? You're not just querying existing data? Susan H. I want to manufacture all dates between the start and end date and populate the listbox with same. I forget how to do it. I'm used to grabbing data using SQL etc. and I suppose I could just build a table containing loads of dates and query that, but I'm wondering how to manufacture the listbox rows instead. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 16 01:59:19 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:59:19 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <052901c4821d$010f2a10$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <006501c4835e$8da3c020$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I always enjoyed the OT Friday and Friday Humour. Stopped doing it myself when I got some snotty comments. Good to see a return Arthur. More, I say. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: 14 August 2004 17:38 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday > > > Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so > excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 16 04:51:47 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:51:47 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! SOLVED - maybe!!! In-Reply-To: <0be201c482b5$cff92680$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> References: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <1196581313.20040316100933@cactus.dk> <0be201c482b5$cff92680$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> Message-ID: <1678926926.20040816115147@cactus.dk> Thanks David, I'll make a note on that. /gustav > Dear Gustav et al > This problem has been unsolved for ages, I have turned my attention to it again. > It seems to have been fixed by simply copying the memo field contents into a new memo field (same table) and addressing this new memo field instead. Many memo records apparently locked are again > free to be saved(!) The old memos are then removed. > I am guessing but something was corrupt in the page locking of some of the memo records, that a database repair would not fix... > Hope this helps someone else one day.... > Kind regards > David Hingston > Director > Chequers Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand. > http://www.cheqsoft.com --- > I have a client fighting with this too. > Could you be a little more specific on your solution, please? > What are you refreshing and when? > Which of the advices mentioned in the forum discussion did you > implement? > As I read it, you update (save) the record at the BeforeUpdate event > of the memo field, then Cancel the update and refresh (requery?) the > record? > /gustav > > Thanks John, > > That gave me enough to resolve it. > > Also Ref http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/access/access605200.html > > For anyone else simply doing a refresh unlocks it! > > Kind Regards > > David > > From: John W. Colby > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:38 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > Memo fields are treated differently than the rest of the fields in a record. > > They are simply pointers out to a storage area where the actual memo is > > stored. Memos still have the "page locking" issue where if another user is > > editing another memo that resides in the same physical page as your memo, > > yours will be locked. > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tortise > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > Hi > > I have a database which intermittently reports memo fields as being locked. > > However they are not! Editing the memo field it refuses to update on > > attempted save, however text fields still update fine. (!) It is a database > > from A2K, that went to A97, back to A2k and now is running (converted) in > > A2k3. (Over time!) Repair and compaction makes no difference, neither does > > logging off and back on to the windows session. > > The same behaviour is exhibited when editing the table as it is from a form. > > I'm stumped! > > As always any guidance is appreciated. > > Kind Regards > > David From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 16 06:22:37 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:22:37 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox In-Reply-To: <00e501c482ec$5d696ee0$6601a8c0@rock> References: <00e501c482ec$5d696ee0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <7514377213.20040816132237@cactus.dk> Hi Arthur > I'm having a senior moment. Given a form containing three controls: > txtDateFrom - starting date > txtDateTo - ending date > lstDates - to contain one row for all dates between from and to > inclusive > I want to manufacture all dates between the start and end date and > populate the listbox with same. I forget how to do it. I'm used to > grabbing data using SQL etc. and I suppose I could just build a table > containing loads of dates and query that, but I'm wondering how to > manufacture the listbox rows instead. > Will someone kindly nudge me in the right direction? That's typically what i listbox callback function is for; no tables, no nothing, just a simple function: Private Function ListDaysInInterval( _ ctl As Control, _ lngID As Long, _ lngRow As Long, _ lngCol As Long, _ intCode As Integer) As Variant Static datDateFirst As Date Static strFormat As String Static lngDates As Long Dim varDateFirst As Variant Dim varDateLast As Variant Dim varReturn As Variant Select Case intCode Case acLBInitialize strFormat = Me!txtDateFrom.Format varDateFirst = Me!txtDateFrom.Value varDateLast = Me!txtDateTo.Value ' Only initialize if two dates are present. varReturn = IsDate(varDateFirst) And IsDate(varDateLast) If varReturn = True Then datDateFirst = CDate(varDateFirst) lngDates = DateDiff("d", datDateFirst, CDate(varDateLast)) + 1 Else lngDates = 0 End If Case acLBOpen varReturn = Timer ' Autogenerated unique ID. Case acLBGetRowCount ' Get rows. varReturn = lngDates ' Set number of rows. Case acLBGetColumnCount ' Get columns. varReturn = 1 ' Set number of columns. Case acLBGetColumnWidth ' Get column width. varReturn = -1 ' Use default width. Case acLBGetValue ' Get the data. ' Calculate dates. varReturn = DateAdd("d", lngRow, datDateFirst) Case acLBGetFormat ' Format the data. varReturn = strFormat ' Use format of first control. Case acLBEnd ' Do something when form with listbox closes or ' listbox is requeried. End Select ListDaysInInterval = varReturn End Function /gustav From djkr at msn.com Mon Aug 16 08:55:05 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:55:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <411DF009.17749.79EEA6@localhost> Message-ID: <014b01c48398$a276aa50$3500a8c0@dabsight> I put records where the clients want/need them. And there are cases where that's at the top. Period. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Bryan Carbonnell > Sent: 14 August 2004 15:57 > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message > <---snip---> > Then On 6 Aug 2004 at 11:42, Kath Pelletti wrote: > > > Following the same logic - when you write a system with a > continuous > > form > > - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make > them scroll all > > the way down to see the latest data? > > Nope. It goes at the bottom. Oldest at the top. Newest at the bottom. > Just like everything else I do. I need context, the older stuff, > before I can understand the new stuff. > <---snip---> > -- > Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca > A pat on the back is only a few inches from a kick in the butt. From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Mon Aug 16 09:30:44 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:30:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B60@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I need to assign a number for a document that contains the discipline number, the year, and a new task number. I can't seem to get the year part to work - how do I have it add the year to a number (and it must change every year too)? The year would come after the discipline so the number would be: EVAL-123-04-001. EvalNo: "EVAL " & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") Virginia From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 16 09:51:56 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:51:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B60@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <20040816145158.ROPY1756.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You mean the current year? EvalNo: "EVAL-" & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Year(Now)) & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") Susan H. I need to assign a number for a document that contains the discipline number, the year, and a new task number. I can't seem to get the year part to work - how do I have it add the year to a number (and it must change every year too)? The year would come after the discipline so the number would be: EVAL-123-04-001. EvalNo: "EVAL " & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Mon Aug 16 09:52:39 2004 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:52:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number Message-ID: EvalNo: "EVAL"&"-"&[DisciplineNo]&Format("yy",[YourDateField])&"-"&Format([EVTas kNum],"000") Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: Hollis,Virginia [mailto:HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:31 AM To: 'accessD at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number I need to assign a number for a document that contains the discipline number, the year, and a new task number. I can't seem to get the year part to work - how do I have it add the year to a number (and it must change every year too)? The year would come after the discipline so the number would be: EVAL-123-04-001. EvalNo: "EVAL " & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 16 10:02:46 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:02:46 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B60@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B60@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <19827586296.20040816170246@cactus.dk> Hi Virginia You can pull all this into the Format() function: EvalNo: Format([DisciplineNo],"\E\V\A\L\-000") & _ Format(Date,"\-yy") & _ Format([EVTaskNum],"\-000") or Format([DisciplineNo],"\E\V\A\L\-0") & _ Format(Date,"\-yy") & _ Format([EVTaskNum],"\-000") /gustav > I need to assign a number for a document that contains the discipline > number, the year, and a new task number. I can't seem to get the year part > to work - how do I have it add the year to a number (and it must change > every year too)? The year would come after the discipline so the number > would be: EVAL-123-04-001. > EvalNo: "EVAL " & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Mon Aug 16 10:14:51 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:14:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B62@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Yes, the current year, but I need the year formatted with just 2 digits. I tried this & get 2004, I just need 04. ********************** You mean the current year? EvalNo: "EVAL-" & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Year(Now)) & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") Susan H. I need to assign a number for a document that contains the discipline number, the year, and a new task number. I can't seem to get the year part to work - how do I have it add the year to a number (and it must change every year too)? The year would come after the discipline so the number would be: EVAL-123-04-001. EvalNo: "EVAL " & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Aug 16 10:42:48 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:42:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions - GOSUB = CALL? References: Message-ID: <00f101c483a7$af0e8d00$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Is GOSUB the same As CALL in VBA? I CALL a lot of subroutines. (I know I can drop the CALL but it reads more clearer when I use it. ) Is this bad form? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > Hi Brett: > > I must admit I never read anything directly actual panning GOSUBS and I can > see you point about them being similar to function/subroutine calls. In the > older coding environments there were little flexibility when it came to > selection. > > Dijkstra's main emphasis was on pushing for structured coding. With the > creation of structured languages came all the amenities and designing > choices that we, as developers enjoy today. He did not condemn use of > particular code statements but rather, he encouraged the development of > structured development languages. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 9:11 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Jim, > Are you sure that Dijkstra actually condemned GOSUB statements? > Practically everyone in the computer science community knows about his > groundbreaking "GOTO statements considered harmful" paper, but I have > never heard this applied to GOSUBs. > > In some older BASIC languages, a GOSUB statement was used in a similar > manner to CALL, in that it would execute a separate subroutine, and > return to the exact same point in the calling routine when complete. > This concept is directly in line with the tenets of structured > programming, and IMHO a vital tool for modularizing code into manageable > blocks. Contrast this with the "evil" GOTO statement, which allowed one > to jump mindlessly from procedure to procedure, with no specific rule as > to where code execution resumed. Spaghetti code, anyone? > > Now here's the part of the message where I'll probably stir up a > pointless debate. I have used GOSUB statements for years in my > AccessBasic, VB and VBA code, and only recently stopped doing so because > the outdated syntax is confusing to someone unfamiliar with its use. > > I personally try to avoid global variables (another debate in itself), > and limit the use of modular variables. In routines using several > procedure-level variables, breaking an unwieldy procedure into smaller > ones involves passing multiple arguments to the child routines. A > possible alternative is to break code blocks into separate sections of > the same routine and call it with GoSub. Not only do you have the > benefit of sharing all of your procedure level variables, but the code > is kept bundled with your main sub. > > I found this approach to be elegant and useful. Many people would pan > it as clunky, outdated, and even arcane. Eventually I stopped doing it > mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 3:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > John: > > You might find this article, about the man who spent a major portion of > his life condemning the GOTO and GOSUB commands, interesting. Quote: He > was famously the leader in the abolition of the GOTO statement from > programming. > > http://reference.creativesystemdesigns.com/miscellaneous.html#edsger > > Jim > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---------------------------------------- > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the > taking > of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. > If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are > prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 11:09:34 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:09:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A7@main2.marlow.com> Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon Aug 16 11:38:09 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:38:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions - GOSUB = CALL? Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658C1@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> No. GOSUB redirects program execution to a label in the same procedure. CALL redirects it to another procedure entirely. In older versions of BASIC (e.g. the one that shipped with my good ol' 64), GOSUB jumped to another line in the program with the expectation that it would eventually encounter a RETURN statement to bring it back to the original routine. GOSUB is acceptable from a structured programming standpoint, but not widely used in VB(A) (don't know why, but it's obviously not a popular keyword and has been removed from VB.NET). Nothing wrong with the CALL keyword (although it has also been discontinued in VB.NET since all procedures are called with parentheses). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions - GOSUB = CALL? Is GOSUB the same As CALL in VBA? I CALL a lot of subroutines. (I know I can drop the CALL but it reads more clearer when I use it. ) Is this bad form? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > Hi Brett: > > I must admit I never read anything directly actual panning GOSUBS and I can > see you point about them being similar to function/subroutine calls. In the > older coding environments there were little flexibility when it came to > selection. > > Dijkstra's main emphasis was on pushing for structured coding. With the > creation of structured languages came all the amenities and designing > choices that we, as developers enjoy today. He did not condemn use of > particular code statements but rather, he encouraged the development of > structured development languages. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 9:11 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Jim, > Are you sure that Dijkstra actually condemned GOSUB statements? > Practically everyone in the computer science community knows about his > groundbreaking "GOTO statements considered harmful" paper, but I have > never heard this applied to GOSUBs. > > In some older BASIC languages, a GOSUB statement was used in a similar > manner to CALL, in that it would execute a separate subroutine, and > return to the exact same point in the calling routine when complete. > This concept is directly in line with the tenets of structured > programming, and IMHO a vital tool for modularizing code into manageable > blocks. Contrast this with the "evil" GOTO statement, which allowed one > to jump mindlessly from procedure to procedure, with no specific rule as > to where code execution resumed. Spaghetti code, anyone? > > Now here's the part of the message where I'll probably stir up a > pointless debate. I have used GOSUB statements for years in my > AccessBasic, VB and VBA code, and only recently stopped doing so because > the outdated syntax is confusing to someone unfamiliar with its use. > > I personally try to avoid global variables (another debate in itself), > and limit the use of modular variables. In routines using several > procedure-level variables, breaking an unwieldy procedure into smaller > ones involves passing multiple arguments to the child routines. A > possible alternative is to break code blocks into separate sections of > the same routine and call it with GoSub. Not only do you have the > benefit of sharing all of your procedure level variables, but the code > is kept bundled with your main sub. > > I found this approach to be elegant and useful. Many people would pan > it as clunky, outdated, and even arcane. Eventually I stopped doing it > mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 3:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > John: > > You might find this article, about the man who spent a major portion of > his life condemning the GOTO and GOSUB commands, interesting. Quote: He > was famously the leader in the abolition of the GOTO statement from > programming. > > http://reference.creativesystemdesigns.com/miscellaneous.html#edsger > > Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon Aug 16 11:40:13 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:40:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658C2@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From JHewson at karta.com Mon Aug 16 12:02:05 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:02:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1D6@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> At the risk of sounding uninformed (which I am most of the time), what is Curling? My first thought was something that ladies do with their hair. A sport? I haven't seen snow for a long time, so I'm not sure if Hockey is really a sport. I do love Canada though, brings back memories. My wife and I went camping in Banff on our honeymoon, 28 years ago this month. Absolutely gorgeous! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Mon Aug 16 12:01:31 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:01:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Jeffrey F Demulling/MN/USB is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 08/16/2004 and will not return until 08/17/2004. I will respond to your message when I return. Please contact Greg Paoli (651-495-3925) if you have an urgent matter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ============================================================================== From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 12:08:25 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:08:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A9@main2.marlow.com> LOL. Oh, it's hard to forget the neighbors to the north.....they gave us their own bacon, they have peculiarities about having two official languages, and quite frankly, all of their talent moved here, cause half of Hollywood is from Canada! LOL! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 12:22:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:22:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2AB@main2.marlow.com> Curling is a game done on an ice rink. There is a HUGE puck (I think it's about the size of a basketball, but is closer in shape to a hockey puck). Instead of hitting the puck, however, the teams have brooms, to sweep snow around, to try and guide the puck. Let me see if there is a website on it...I'm sure there is... http://www.curlingbasics.com There's quite a bit to the game (apparently the Canadians have a lot of time on their hands........) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday At the risk of sounding uninformed (which I am most of the time), what is Curling? My first thought was something that ladies do with their hair. A sport? I haven't seen snow for a long time, so I'm not sure if Hockey is really a sport. I do love Canada though, brings back memories. My wife and I went camping in Banff on our honeymoon, 28 years ago this month. Absolutely gorgeous! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Mon Aug 16 12:47:21 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:47:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658C2@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <021201c483b9$156c8b40$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Another dumb American story (sadly true): An aquaintance of mine was from India, and had spent time in the UK before moving with her family to Houston. She started attending a local Houston high school, and one day there a curious fellow student started asking her questions: "So, where'd you live before you came to Houston?" "In England." "Oh. Where's that?" "Umm, east of here." "Oh really ... what language do they speak?" At that point, she broke off the conversation. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Aug 16 13:03:21 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:03:21 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning References: <021201c483b9$156c8b40$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: <001701c483bb$51bb2a00$0100a8c0@Martin> Someone mentioned a blog highlighting issues with this. I REALLY NEED that address.. My SQL 2000 server is trashed becasue of the install of Beta 2. So be warned folks - I installed 2005 Express yesterday and EM and QA now dont work at all. ISQL is also out. Martin From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 16 13:04:09 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:04:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <021201c483b9$156c8b40$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: <007501c483bb$6e1c7be0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Had a similar experience a few years ago holidaying in Key Largo. Went out on a snorkelling boat with my kids and a few other familes of different nationalities. Anyway the young (18ish) lad assisting on the boat struck up conversation with a couple of Italian girls who spoke good English. This was in my hearing, no word of a lie. Went something like: "Where you from?" "Italy" "Where's that?" "Europe" "What language do people there speak?" "Well each country has its own language" "Wow, neat" But that's not a jibe at antyone. It was just funny, and quite charming in a way. Anyway, plenty of English people don't know where the next town is. No country has a monopoly on ignorance. But, look it's not Friday. I shouldn't be doing this, and neither should you . -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert > Sent: 16 August 2004 18:47 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > > > Another dumb American story (sadly true): > > An aquaintance of mine was from India, and had spent time in > the UK before moving with her family to Houston. She started > attending a local Houston high school, and one day there a > curious fellow student started asking her > questions: > > "So, where'd you live before you came to Houston?" > > "In England." > > "Oh. Where's that?" > > "Umm, east of here." > > "Oh really ... what language do they speak?" > > At that point, she broke off the conversation. > > -Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com] > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > > Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the > north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who > thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't > show any other land bordering it. > > And besides, we have Curling too! > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 13:07:18 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:07:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: in query, I have an existing Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] I have a field called Female that can be True or False. What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: FirstName (Surname) MarrName Jane (Smith) Doe otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John Doe Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different scenario of having the married name last in parens, like Jane Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] being F to [Female] being True) IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & ")",""),"") But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of this, or not enough of that or undefined functions I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no longer needed since I want the () around the surname of females, and surname is always filled in. Here is my most recent attempt without regards to the males: Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & ")" & [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax errors, but does give me Undefined Function IIF in expression. I assume that has something to do with defining the "else" portion. So, what do I need to add? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 16 13:17:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:17:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions - GOSUB = CALL? Message-ID: I think it fell into disfavor because the principle of structured programming is one operation per routine and GOSUBs can be replaced with calls to separate routines as long as you pass the arguments required ByRef or pass them back as a result. As it functions in VBA, it means tightly coupled code, which has also fallen into disfavor. I can remember using it back in Access 2.0 but I don't recall ever using it since. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions - GOSUB = CALL? No. GOSUB redirects program execution to a label in the same procedure. CALL redirects it to another procedure entirely. In older versions of BASIC (e.g. the one that shipped with my good ol' 64), GOSUB jumped to another line in the program with the expectation that it would eventually encounter a RETURN statement to bring it back to the original routine. GOSUB is acceptable from a structured programming standpoint, but not widely used in VB(A) (don't know why, but it's obviously not a popular keyword and has been removed from VB.NET). Nothing wrong with the CALL keyword (although it has also been discontinued in VB.NET since all procedures are called with parentheses). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions - GOSUB = CALL? Is GOSUB the same As CALL in VBA? I CALL a lot of subroutines. (I know I can drop the CALL but it reads more clearer when I use it. ) Is this bad form? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > Hi Brett: > > I must admit I never read anything directly actual panning GOSUBS and I can > see you point about them being similar to function/subroutine calls. In the > older coding environments there were little flexibility when it came to > selection. > > Dijkstra's main emphasis was on pushing for structured coding. With the > creation of structured languages came all the amenities and designing > choices that we, as developers enjoy today. He did not condemn use of > particular code statements but rather, he encouraged the development of > structured development languages. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 9:11 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Jim, > Are you sure that Dijkstra actually condemned GOSUB statements? > Practically everyone in the computer science community knows about his > groundbreaking "GOTO statements considered harmful" paper, but I have > never heard this applied to GOSUBs. > > In some older BASIC languages, a GOSUB statement was used in a similar > manner to CALL, in that it would execute a separate subroutine, and > return to the exact same point in the calling routine when complete. > This concept is directly in line with the tenets of structured > programming, and IMHO a vital tool for modularizing code into manageable > blocks. Contrast this with the "evil" GOTO statement, which allowed one > to jump mindlessly from procedure to procedure, with no specific rule as > to where code execution resumed. Spaghetti code, anyone? > > Now here's the part of the message where I'll probably stir up a > pointless debate. I have used GOSUB statements for years in my > AccessBasic, VB and VBA code, and only recently stopped doing so because > the outdated syntax is confusing to someone unfamiliar with its use. > > I personally try to avoid global variables (another debate in itself), > and limit the use of modular variables. In routines using several > procedure-level variables, breaking an unwieldy procedure into smaller > ones involves passing multiple arguments to the child routines. A > possible alternative is to break code blocks into separate sections of > the same routine and call it with GoSub. Not only do you have the > benefit of sharing all of your procedure level variables, but the code > is kept bundled with your main sub. > > I found this approach to be elegant and useful. Many people would pan > it as clunky, outdated, and even arcane. Eventually I stopped doing it > mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 3:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > John: > > You might find this article, about the man who spent a major portion of > his life condemning the GOTO and GOSUB commands, interesting. Quote: He > was famously the leader in the abolition of the GOTO statement from > programming. > > http://reference.creativesystemdesigns.com/miscellaneous.html#edsger > > Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Mon Aug 16 13:22:40 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:22:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1D8@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Kathryn, How about this: Name: FirstName & IF([Female]="Yes", "(" & [Surname] & ") " & [MarrName], [Surname]) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem in query, I have an existing Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] I have a field called Female that can be True or False. What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: FirstName (Surname) MarrName Jane (Smith) Doe otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John Doe Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different scenario of having the married name last in parens, like Jane Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] being F to [Female] being True) IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & ")",""),"") But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of this, or not enough of that or undefined functions I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no longer needed since I want the () around the surname of females, and surname is always filled in. Here is my most recent attempt without regards to the males: Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & ")" & [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax errors, but does give me Undefined Function IIF in expression. I assume that has something to do with defining the "else" portion. So, what do I need to add? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Mon Aug 16 13:29:40 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:29:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem Message-ID: Try IIF([FEMALE], [FirstName] & " (" & [SURNAME] & ") " & [MarrName], [FirstName] & [MarrName] ) Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > KathrynAtGwens > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 02:07 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > in query, I have an existing > Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] > > I have a field called Female that can be True or False. > > What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: > FirstName (Surname) MarrName > Jane (Smith) Doe > > otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John Doe > > Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different > scenario of having the married name last in parens, like Jane > Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] > being F to [Female] being True) > IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & > ")",""),"") > > But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I > can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of > this, or not enough of that or undefined functions > > I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no > longer needed since I want the () around the surname of > females, and surname is always filled in. Here is my most > recent attempt without regards to the males: > > Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & > ")" & [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax > errors, but does give me Undefined Function IIF in > expression. I assume that has something to do with defining > the "else" portion. > > So, what do I need to add? > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Aug 16 13:33:31 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:33:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT SQL Server Express - More References: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1D8@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: <000b01c483bf$887dbb30$0100a8c0@Martin> The problem seems to be when you uninstall one of the beta versions. It breaks the EM and does something to DMO. Still trying to work out excatly what its ripping out of the computer. I have managed to get most of EM back up and running and QA is almost there. Just be careful with this if your installing it on a development and back up everything first. Martin From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Mon Aug 16 13:40:14 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:40:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem Message-ID: Personally, I would have set up the database as FirstName, MaidenName, Surname So that Surname is always the last name used. Then you could probably do FirstName + iif(FEMALE, " ( " + MaidenName + ") " ) + Surname Otherwise it would still be IIF ( FirstName & " (" & MaidenName & ") " & Surname, FirstName & " " & SurName ) Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > KathrynAtGwens > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 02:07 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > in query, I have an existing > Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] > > I have a field called Female that can be True or False. > > What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: > FirstName (Surname) MarrName > Jane (Smith) Doe > > otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John Doe > > Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different > scenario of having the married name last in parens, like Jane > Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] > being F to [Female] being True) > IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & > ")",""),"") > > But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I > can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of > this, or not enough of that or undefined functions > > I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no > longer needed since I want the () around the surname of > females, and surname is always filled in. Here is my most > recent attempt without regards to the males: > > Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & > ")" & [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax > errors, but does give me Undefined Function IIF in > expression. I assume that has something to do with defining > the "else" portion. > > So, what do I need to add? > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From JHewson at karta.com Mon Aug 16 13:43:11 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:43:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1DA@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Kathryn, On another thread, there was a discussion of code review. I did a code review of my own suggestion and saw that I left something out. The correct suggestion: Name: FirstName & " " & IIF([Female]="Yes", "(" & [Surname] & ") " & [MarrName], [Surname]) The second parenthesis does have a space after it to accommodate the space before the MarrName. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 1:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem Kathryn, How about this: Name: FirstName & IF([Female]="Yes", "(" & [Surname] & ") " & [MarrName], [Surname]) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem in query, I have an existing Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] I have a field called Female that can be True or False. What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: FirstName (Surname) MarrName Jane (Smith) Doe otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John Doe Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different scenario of having the married name last in parens, like Jane Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] being F to [Female] being True) IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & ")",""),"") But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of this, or not enough of that or undefined functions I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no longer needed since I want the () around the surname of females, and surname is always filled in. Here is my most recent attempt without regards to the males: Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & ")" & [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax errors, but does give me Undefined Function IIF in expression. I assume that has something to do with defining the "else" portion. So, what do I need to add? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 13:37:38 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:37:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem In-Reply-To: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1D8@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: Progress but still no cigar. I tried both: Expr1: [FirstName] & IIF([Female]="Yes","(" & [Surname] & ") " & [MarrName],[Surname]) and Name: [FirstName] & IIF([Female]="Yes","(" & [Surname] & ") " & [MarrName],[Surname]) and get #Error in the field. But at least I don't get the Undefined Function IIF (Note that you typed IF - which gave me the Undefined Function IIF, so I *did* change that typo) I also tried True instead of Yes with same #Error So we are getting there - what next? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > > Kathryn, > How about this: > > Name: FirstName & IF([Female]="Yes", "(" & [Surname] & ") " & > [MarrName], [Surname]) > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 1:07 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > in query, I have an existing > Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] > > I have a field called Female that can be True or False. > > What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: > FirstName (Surname) MarrName > Jane (Smith) Doe > > otherwise (if Female is False) then I want > FirstName Surname > John Doe > > Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different scenario > of having the married name last in parens, like > Jane Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] > being F to [Female] being True) > IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & ")",""),"") > > But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I > can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of this, > or not enough of that or undefined functions > > I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no > longer needed since I want the () around the surname of females, > and surname is always filled in. Here is my most recent attempt > without regards to the males: > > Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & ")" & > [MarrName]) > which does not give me any invalid syntax errors, but does give > me Undefined Function IIF in expression. I assume that has > something to do with defining the "else" portion. > > So, what do I need to add? > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 13:39:56 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:39:56 -0700 Subject: SOLVED - RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yeah! That one did it! and so simple too. Many thanks!!! -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of O'Connor, > Patricia (OTDA) > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:30 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > Try > > IIF([FEMALE], [FirstName] & " (" & [SURNAME] & ") " & [MarrName], > [FirstName] & [MarrName] ) > > > Patti > ****************************************************************** > *Patricia O'Connor > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst > *OTDA - BDMA > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > ****************************************************************** > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > KathrynAtGwens > > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 02:07 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > > in query, I have an existing > > Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] > > > > I have a field called Female that can be True or False. > > > > What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: > > FirstName (Surname) MarrName > > Jane (Smith) Doe > > > > otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John Doe > > > > Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different > > scenario of having the married name last in parens, like Jane > > Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] > > being F to [Female] being True) > > IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & > > ")",""),"") > > > > But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I > > can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of > > this, or not enough of that or undefined functions > > > > I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no > > longer needed since I want the () around the surname of > > females, and surname is always filled in. Here is my most > > recent attempt without regards to the males: > > > > Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & > > ")" & [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax > > errors, but does give me Undefined Function IIF in > > expression. I assume that has something to do with defining > > the "else" portion. > > > > So, what do I need to add? > > > > -- > > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Mon Aug 16 13:50:36 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:50:36 -0400 Subject: SOLVED - RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem Message-ID: Glad it worked because I got the names confused and left out the space between the male names Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > KathrynAtGwens > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 02:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: SOLVED - RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > Yeah! That one did it! and so simple too. > > Many thanks!!! > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of O'Connor, > > Patricia (OTDA) > > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:30 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > > > > Try > > > > IIF([FEMALE], [FirstName] & " (" & [SURNAME] & ") " & [MarrName], > > [FirstName] & [MarrName] ) > > > > > > Patti > > ****************************************************************** > > *Patricia O'Connor > > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA > > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > > ****************************************************************** > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > KathrynAtGwens > > > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 02:07 PM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > > > > in query, I have an existing > > > Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] > > > > > > I have a field called Female that can be True or False. > > > > > > What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: > > > FirstName (Surname) MarrName > > > Jane (Smith) Doe > > > > > > otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John > > > Doe > > > > > > Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different > scenario of > > > having the married name last in parens, like Jane Smith (Doe), he > > > gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] being F to > [Female] being > > > True) IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & > [MarrName] & > > > ")",""),"") > > > > > > But no matter how I try to combine everything in the > query, I can't > > > get my results correct. I've either got too many of this, or not > > > enough of that or undefined functions > > > > > > I know I can leave out the length portion because that is > no longer > > > needed since I want the () around the surname of females, and > > > surname is always filled in. Here is my most recent > attempt without > > > regards to the males: > > > > > > Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & ")" & > > > [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax errors, but > > > does give me Undefined Function IIF in expression. I > assume that has > > > something to do with defining the "else" portion. > > > > > > So, what do I need to add? > > > > > > -- > > > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > > > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > > > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 13:52:18 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:52:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem In-Reply-To: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1DA@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: That still left a #Error but it's moot since Patti provided a solution. You probably responded to my message before noticing her solution and my reply where I added SOLVED to the beginning. Thanks for trying again anyway. -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:43 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > > Kathryn, > On another thread, there was a discussion of code review. > I did a code review of my own suggestion and saw that I left > something out. > > The correct suggestion: > Name: FirstName & " " & IIF([Female]="Yes", "(" & [Surname] & ") > " & [MarrName], [Surname]) > > The second parenthesis does have a space after it to accommodate > the space before the MarrName. > > Jim From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 16 14:25:16 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:25:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning References: <021201c483b9$156c8b40$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> <001701c483bb$51bb2a00$0100a8c0@Martin> Message-ID: <41210A1C.90709@shaw.ca> FAQ: Installing SQL Express side by side with SQL 2000 Enterprise Manager seems to break EM. It is still broken when You uninstall Express. SQLDMO9 is culprit. MS is supposed to release a new compatible version of EM to work with Beta real soon now. http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07/04/172956.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07.aspx MS is supposed to bring out a new working version of EM that works against SQL Express but hasn't released it yet. I think you reregister sqldmo.dll But if you do EM won't work against SQL express. Gotcha ;) Install on different machines or use something like vmware. Martin Reid wrote: >Someone mentioned a blog highlighting issues with this. I REALLY NEED that >address.. My SQL 2000 server is trashed becasue of the install of Beta 2. > >So be warned folks - I installed 2005 Express yesterday and EM and QA now >dont work at all. ISQL is also out. > >Martin > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 16 14:38:16 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:38:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A7@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <010201c483c8$9409e1f0$6601a8c0@rock> Duh, Drew.... I thought I already dug our own grave with the joke, but no! You gotta rub it in! So tit for tat: Australia at last count has as many medals as USA, with 1/10 the population, give or take. I could draw various conclusions from this datum such as the relative fitness of USA persons v. Aussies, but I'll instead elect to let you draw your own conclusions on the wall. Drew: a couple of Golds already. And where was your alleged baseball team? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 14:43:25 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:43:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Patti said: > Personally, I would have set up the database as FirstName, MaidenName, > Surname > So that Surname is always the last name used. Not neccessarily in genealogy (this is a tombstone database, by the way). Say there are 5 siblings Kathryn (Doe) Smith Karen (Doe) Jones Kay Doe - unmarried Kerry Doe - unmarried Kenneth Doe - married I wouldn't be able to sort them under Doe if I had had Doe in Surname for the males and under MaidenName for the females. To make it more clear, maybe I could have used BirthSurname instead of Surname. The other way I'd have to do it, would be that for the males, I'd have to have Doe in both the Surname and MarrName fields, and rely on the Female field in all queries. But most of my queries, I'm sorting only by Surname (BirthSurname) as, in genealogy, that is the way that women are thought of. They might have 5 married names in their lifetime, but since this is for burials, there is only one used at death. Now, in a proper genealogy program, that would be different. In The Master Genealogist (by http://whollygenes.com) the birthsurname is the primary name (called Name-Var but marked at primary), but they can have all kinds of alternate names - like Name-Nick and Name-Mar. And the program can sort with *just* the primary names in the list, or can include all of the names. FYI The purpose of my database is to keep track of tombstone status. I have y/n fields called Photo Scanned NotAvailable NeedPhoto TMGlinked WebLinked The first is whether or not I *have* a photo of the tombstone. The second is whether or not I've scanned it Third and fourth are obvious - and the longer ago the person died, the more likely it is unavailable. TMGlinked means that I've linked the photo in the genealogy program and lastly, WebLinked means I've linked the photo on the web. Here's an example page: http://babcockancestry.com/BuryPagesLaura/BuryingPlacesWI.shtml Edwin Snow has a tombstone picture and has first two and last two fields checked. Augusta (Priebe) Snow has a checkmark in NotAvailable. Normally, I don't need the married name while using this database as all women are thought of by their birthnames. However, for a report I'm preparing for Gwen's trip, I wanted a list of the people for whom NeedPhoto is checked, so that as she goes through various states, she can see whether a tombstone is available. In that case, when she gets to the cemetery she's going to be looking for Kathryn Smith and Karen Jones, not Kathryn and Karen Doe. But the maiden name is important too, as they may be buried near her parents as often as near his. Hence Kathryn (Doe) Smith and Karen (Doe) Jones in the report. Works pretty well for me on the whole. As you see on the web pages, we have a lot of photos of tombstones 212 of them, 22 unavailable, 72 needed (though some may move to unavailable status), and about 500 more that fall into several categories. Some we haven't yet dug through to get the photo out of trip albums, *many* we don't have the cemetery location, so they are moot, many are old enough they will probably end up in the unavailable field. Tons of those are in Massachusetts: http://babcockancestry.com/BuryPagesGNG/BurialsMA2.shtml I used to have a separate database of the people on that page, and I publicly thank Drew for the off list help he gave me in combining the two databases. -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Aug 16 14:52:44 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:52:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning References: <021201c483b9$156c8b40$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM><001701c483bb$51bb2a00$0100a8c0@Martin> <41210A1C.90709@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <001501c483ca$991be0b0$0100a8c0@Martin> Thanks Marty Appears to be the uninstall which is the problem. Appeared to work OK when installed. When I uninstalled it to load up a newer release of Express nothing else worked. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning > FAQ: Installing SQL Express side by side with SQL 2000 Enterprise > Manager seems to break EM. It is still broken when You uninstall > Express. SQLDMO9 is culprit. MS is supposed to release a new compatible > version of EM to work with Beta real soon now. > > http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07/04/172956.aspx > http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07.aspx > > MS is supposed to bring out a new working version of EM that works > against SQL Express but hasn't released it yet. > I think you reregister sqldmo.dll > But if you do EM won't work against SQL express. > Gotcha ;) > Install on different machines or use something like vmware. > > Martin Reid wrote: > > >Someone mentioned a blog highlighting issues with this. I REALLY NEED that > >address.. My SQL 2000 server is trashed becasue of the install of Beta 2. > > > >So be warned folks - I installed 2005 Express yesterday and EM and QA now > >dont work at all. ISQL is also out. > > > >Martin > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 14:58:24 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:58:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2AF@main2.marlow.com> LOL! We had a student in my High School who was from England. His name was Neville. In a health class (which is where they have sex ed, etc.), during a test, he stood up and asked if anyone had a rubber. It took the teacher and 5 minutes to get us to settle down...it was hilarious. For the Listers that don't understand, in England, a rubber is a pencil eraser. In America, it's a condom! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Another dumb American story (sadly true): An aquaintance of mine was from India, and had spent time in the UK before moving with her family to Houston. She started attending a local Houston high school, and one day there a curious fellow student started asking her questions: "So, where'd you live before you came to Houston?" "In England." "Oh. Where's that?" "Umm, east of here." "Oh really ... what language do they speak?" At that point, she broke off the conversation. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 16 14:49:58 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:49:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday References: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1D6@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: <41210FE6.7090105@shaw.ca> I have played Carling in Canada, a more macho form of curling. You get a 3 mile stretch of lake ice cleared of snow and at least 2 feet thick. Less thickness than that causes the ice to crack and pressure waves to build up. You then paint a series of concentric rings with at least a 100 foot radius at one end. You then get the various competitors cars and equip with studded tires and surround the car securely with old tires. Each competitor guns his car up to 100 mph upon crossing the hog line about a mile from the circle he removes his foot from the accelerator and attempts to coast his car as close as he can to the center of the circle, the other team may attempt to remove competitors cars by knocking it from circle. Triple takeouts are much celebrated, however sweeping brooms in front of incoming cars to change the cars direction and speed is discouraged for obvious reasons. This may make a great Olympic Winter sport. Jim Hewson wrote: >At the risk of sounding uninformed (which I am most of the time), what is Curling? >My first thought was something that ladies do with their hair. A sport? >I haven't seen snow for a long time, so I'm not sure if Hockey is really a sport. >I do love Canada though, brings back memories. My wife and I went camping in Banff on our honeymoon, 28 years ago this month. Absolutely gorgeous! > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > >Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, >unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was >an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. > >And besides, we have Curling too! > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > >Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, >couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday > > >Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited >about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The information in this email may contain confidential information that >is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended >recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking >of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If >transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender >immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited >from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to >destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > >Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual >sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, >states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > >This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned >for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and >addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software >in conjunction with virus detection software. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 15:01:19 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:01:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2B1@main2.marlow.com> If it's a yes no field, you need to remove the quotes around True: IFF([Female]=True,IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & ")",""),"") Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem in query, I have an existing Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] I have a field called Female that can be True or False. What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: FirstName (Surname) MarrName Jane (Smith) Doe otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John Doe Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different scenario of having the married name last in parens, like Jane Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] being F to [Female] being True) IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & ")",""),"") But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of this, or not enough of that or undefined functions I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no longer needed since I want the () around the surname of females, and surname is always filled in. Here is my most recent attempt without regards to the males: Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & ")" & [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax errors, but does give me Undefined Function IIF in expression. I assume that has something to do with defining the "else" portion. So, what do I need to add? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 15:04:38 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:04:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2B2@main2.marlow.com> Oh, I don't watch TV anymore....so I haven't really been paying attention to the Olympics. As for why Australia is doing better, well, my guess is that it is due to the higher women to men ratio. If the guys win, they have a LOT better chance of being rewarded back at home. LOL Okay, we're going to get shot for this OT thread on Monday, but heck......it's Monday, have to break the monotony! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 2:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Duh, Drew.... I thought I already dug our own grave with the joke, but no! You gotta rub it in! So tit for tat: Australia at last count has as many medals as USA, with 1/10 the population, give or take. I could draw various conclusions from this datum such as the relative fitness of USA persons v. Aussies, but I'll instead elect to let you draw your own conclusions on the wall. Drew: a couple of Golds already. And where was your alleged baseball team? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Mon Aug 16 15:06:47 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:06:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2AF@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Drew, Along the same lines: Friends of ours were staying at a hotel in England. Women was taken a back when asked by the hotel clerk if she wanted to be "knocked up" in the morning... English version: Wakeup call American: Get pregnant Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 3:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday LOL! We had a student in my High School who was from England. His name was Neville. In a health class (which is where they have sex ed, etc.), during a test, he stood up and asked if anyone had a rubber. It took the teacher and 5 minutes to get us to settle down...it was hilarious. For the Listers that don't understand, in England, a rubber is a pencil eraser. In America, it's a condom! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Another dumb American story (sadly true): An aquaintance of mine was from India, and had spent time in the UK before moving with her family to Houston. She started attending a local Houston high school, and one day there a curious fellow student started asking her questions: "So, where'd you live before you came to Houston?" "In England." "Oh. Where's that?" "Umm, east of here." "Oh really ... what language do they speak?" At that point, she broke off the conversation. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 16 15:08:03 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:08:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <010201c483c8$9409e1f0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040816200806.DYU1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Arthur, we don't have any roos or crocs to wrestle with... puts us as a disadvantage. :) The American basketball players are wienies -- not the Olympic team, but the guys that should've tried out. Wienies... Susan H. Duh, Drew.... I thought I already dug our own grave with the joke, but no! You gotta rub it in! So tit for tat: Australia at last count has as many medals as USA, with 1/10 the population, give or take. I could draw various conclusions from this datum such as the relative fitness of USA persons v. Aussies, but I'll instead elect to let you draw your own conclusions on the wall. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 16 15:09:21 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:09:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning In-Reply-To: <001501c483ca$991be0b0$0100a8c0@Martin> Message-ID: <20040816200924.EUB1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Why are you installing a beta on a development system? You're not supposed to do that -- WARNING!!! WARNING!!!! Betas break things. :( Susan H. Thanks Marty Appears to be the uninstall which is the problem. Appeared to work OK when installed. When I uninstalled it to load up a newer release of Express nothing else worked. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning > FAQ: Installing SQL Express side by side with SQL 2000 Enterprise > Manager seems to break EM. It is still broken when You uninstall > Express. SQLDMO9 is culprit. MS is supposed to release a new compatible > version of EM to work with Beta real soon now. > > http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07/04/172956.aspx > http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07.aspx > > MS is supposed to bring out a new working version of EM that works > against SQL Express but hasn't released it yet. > I think you reregister sqldmo.dll > But if you do EM won't work against SQL express. > Gotcha ;) > Install on different machines or use something like vmware. > > Martin Reid wrote: > > >Someone mentioned a blog highlighting issues with this. I REALLY NEED that > >address.. My SQL 2000 server is trashed becasue of the install of Beta 2. > > > >So be warned folks - I installed 2005 Express yesterday and EM and QA now > >dont work at all. ISQL is also out. > > > >Martin > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 15:05:23 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:05:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Have field named DeathPlace that holds: city, county, state - ie: Pomfret, Windham, CT Have fields deathcity, deathcounty, deathstate Some people already have deathcity, deathcounty, deathstate fields filled in but some haven't yet been broken down. Thanks to Drew, I know how to do the opposite - combining the fields: UPDATE tblBuried SET DeathPlace = [deathcity] & ", " & [deathcounty] & ", " & [deathstate]; (did that for another purpose) But now how do I do the opposite - the splitting of one field to three? I know it should be easy and people do it all the time with splitting names, but I'm not understanding the syntax. I found the parsing instructions in the help file but it's using an example that has a fixed number of characters and my mind is blank on how to change it so that the comma is the deliminator. = = = = = = To find values in part of a field, use the Left, Right, or Mid function in an expression in an empty cell in the Field row in the query design grid. The syntax for these functions is: Left(stringexpr,n) Right(stringexpr,n) Mid(stringexpr,start,n) = = = = = = Help? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Aug 16 15:13:13 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:13:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <5095510.1092686807598.JavaMail.root@sniper6.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <004301c483cd$75c585f0$de1811d8@danwaters> Marty, As I live in Minnesota, I understand how long the winters in Canada can get! ;-) Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 2:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT Friday I have played Carling in Canada, a more macho form of curling. You get a 3 mile stretch of lake ice cleared of snow and at least 2 feet thick. Less thickness than that causes the ice to crack and pressure waves to build up. You then paint a series of concentric rings with at least a 100 foot radius at one end. You then get the various competitors cars and equip with studded tires and surround the car securely with old tires. Each competitor guns his car up to 100 mph upon crossing the hog line about a mile from the circle he removes his foot from the accelerator and attempts to coast his car as close as he can to the center of the circle, the other team may attempt to remove competitors cars by knocking it from circle. Triple takeouts are much celebrated, however sweeping brooms in front of incoming cars to change the cars direction and speed is discouraged for obvious reasons. This may make a great Olympic Winter sport. Jim Hewson wrote: >At the risk of sounding uninformed (which I am most of the time), what is Curling? >My first thought was something that ladies do with their hair. A sport? >I haven't seen snow for a long time, so I'm not sure if Hockey is really a sport. >I do love Canada though, brings back memories. My wife and I went camping in Banff on our honeymoon, 28 years ago this month. Absolutely gorgeous! > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > >Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, >unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was >an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. > >And besides, we have Curling too! > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > >Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, >couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday > > >Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited >about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- >The information in this email may contain confidential information that >is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended >recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking >of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If >transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender >immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited >from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to >destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > >Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual >sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, >states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > >This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned >for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and >addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software >in conjunction with virus detection software. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 15:11:55 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:11:55 -0700 Subject: SOLVED - RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just realized the mens last names weren't showing so I had to change this: IIF([FEMALE], [FirstName] & " (" & [SURNAME] & ") " & [MarrName], [FirstName] & [MarrName] ) to this IIF([FEMALE], [FirstName] & " (" & [SURNAME] & ") " & [MarrName], [FirstName] & " " &[Surname] ) But at least I figured it out myself - yeah! Kathryn > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: SOLVED - RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > Yeah! That one did it! and so simple too. > > Many thanks!!! > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of O'Connor, > > Patricia (OTDA) > > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:30 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > > > > Try > > > > IIF([FEMALE], [FirstName] & " (" & [SURNAME] & ") " & [MarrName], > > [FirstName] & [MarrName] ) > > > > > > Patti > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 15:16:26 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:16:26 -0700 Subject: SOLVED - RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thought you might like to see what the final report looks like. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/burialphotosneededsamplereport.jpg -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) From garykjos at hotmail.com Mon Aug 16 15:24:47 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:24:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: Hi Dan, Welcome to OT. I'm in Minnesnowta as well. Nice summer we are having here isn't it - NOT! I still have yet to see any sign of ripening on a single tomato in my garden :-( Heard on TV that if we don't get some heat soon that a lot of tomatos won't ripen at all before frost. At least we got a little rain today. Where in Minnesota are you at? I'm from Owatonna originally and live in Brooklyn Park nowadays and work in Eden Prairie. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Dan Waters" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday >Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:13:13 -0500 > >Marty, > >As I live in Minnesota, I understand how long the winters in Canada can >get! >;-) > >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 2:50 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT Friday > >I have played Carling in Canada, a more macho form of curling. You get a >3 mile stretch of lake ice cleared of snow and at least 2 feet thick. >Less thickness than that causes the ice to crack and pressure waves to >build up. >You then paint a series of concentric rings with at least a 100 foot >radius at one end. You then get the various competitors cars >and equip with studded tires and surround the car securely with old >tires. Each competitor guns his car up to 100 mph >upon crossing the hog line about a mile from the circle he removes his >foot from the accelerator and attempts to coast his car >as close as he can to the center of the circle, the other team may >attempt to remove competitors cars by knocking it from circle. >Triple takeouts are much celebrated, however sweeping brooms in front >of incoming cars to change the cars direction and speed is discouraged >for obvious reasons. > >This may make a great Olympic Winter sport. > >Jim Hewson wrote: > > >At the risk of sounding uninformed (which I am most of the time), what is >Curling? > >My first thought was something that ladies do with their hair. A sport? > >I haven't seen snow for a long time, so I'm not sure if Hockey is really >a >sport. > >I do love Canada though, brings back memories. My wife and I went camping >in Banff on our honeymoon, 28 years ago this month. Absolutely gorgeous! > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash > >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > > > > >Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, > >unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was > >an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. > > > >And besides, we have Curling too! > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > >DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > > > > >Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, > >couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) > > > >Drew > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > >Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday > > > > > >Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited > >about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----------------------------------------- > >The information in this email may contain confidential information that > >is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the >intended > >recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the >taking > >of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly >prohibited. If > >transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the >sender > > >immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are >prohibited > >from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required >to > >destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > > >Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > >sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > >states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > > >This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > >for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > >addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter >software > >in conjunction with virus detection software. > > > > > > > >-- >Marty Connelly >Victoria, B.C. >Canada > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Mon Aug 16 15:27:54 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:27:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: OOOPS. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Thought this was the OT list. I'll slap my own hand. It's not Friday is it. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Gary Kjos" > >Hi Dan, > >Welcome to OT. I'm in Minnesnowta as well. > >Nice summer we are having here isn't it - NOT! I still have yet to see any >sign of ripening on a single tomato in my garden :-( Heard on TV that if >we don't get some heat soon that a lot of tomatos won't ripen at all before >frost. > >At least we got a little rain today. > >Where in Minnesota are you at? I'm from Owatonna originally and live in >Brooklyn Park nowadays and work in Eden Prairie. > >Gary Kjos >garykjos at hotmail.com > > > > > >>From: "Dan Waters" >> >>Marty, >> >>As I live in Minnesota, I understand how long the winters in Canada can >>get! >>;-) From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 15:31:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:31:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2B3@main2.marlow.com> LOL, I knew of that phrase too! That must have given her a little bit of a culture shock! LOL. I was taken aback on my first trip to Australia, when the guy next to me in a bar said he was pissed. I was like ' I didn't do anything'....only later did I find out that 'pissed' is 'drunk' in AussieLand! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 3:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Drew, Along the same lines: Friends of ours were staying at a hotel in England. Women was taken a back when asked by the hotel clerk if she wanted to be "knocked up" in the morning... English version: Wakeup call American: Get pregnant Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 3:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday LOL! We had a student in my High School who was from England. His name was Neville. In a health class (which is where they have sex ed, etc.), during a test, he stood up and asked if anyone had a rubber. It took the teacher and 5 minutes to get us to settle down...it was hilarious. For the Listers that don't understand, in England, a rubber is a pencil eraser. In America, it's a condom! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Another dumb American story (sadly true): An aquaintance of mine was from India, and had spent time in the UK before moving with her family to Houston. She started attending a local Houston high school, and one day there a curious fellow student started asking her questions: "So, where'd you live before you came to Houston?" "In England." "Oh. Where's that?" "Umm, east of here." "Oh really ... what language do they speak?" At that point, she broke off the conversation. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 15:32:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:32:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2B4@main2.marlow.com> I forgot, are you using Access 2000? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 3:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place Have field named DeathPlace that holds: city, county, state - ie: Pomfret, Windham, CT Have fields deathcity, deathcounty, deathstate Some people already have deathcity, deathcounty, deathstate fields filled in but some haven't yet been broken down. Thanks to Drew, I know how to do the opposite - combining the fields: UPDATE tblBuried SET DeathPlace = [deathcity] & ", " & [deathcounty] & ", " & [deathstate]; (did that for another purpose) But now how do I do the opposite - the splitting of one field to three? I know it should be easy and people do it all the time with splitting names, but I'm not understanding the syntax. I found the parsing instructions in the help file but it's using an example that has a fixed number of characters and my mind is blank on how to change it so that the comma is the deliminator. = = = = = = To find values in part of a field, use the Left, Right, or Mid function in an expression in an empty cell in the Field row in the query design grid. The syntax for these functions is: Left(stringexpr,n) Right(stringexpr,n) Mid(stringexpr,start,n) = = = = = = Help? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Aug 16 15:25:41 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:25:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning References: <20040816200924.EUB1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <003101c483d0$27194420$0100a8c0@Martin> Well some fool has to try it out with SQL Server.(<: Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 9:09 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning > Why are you installing a beta on a development system? You're not supposed > to do that -- WARNING!!! WARNING!!!! Betas break things. :( > > Susan H. > > Thanks Marty > > Appears to be the uninstall which is the problem. Appeared to work OK when > installed. When I uninstalled it to load up a newer release of Express > nothing else worked. > > Martin > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MartyConnelly" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:25 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning > > > > FAQ: Installing SQL Express side by side with SQL 2000 Enterprise > > Manager seems to break EM. It is still broken when You uninstall > > Express. SQLDMO9 is culprit. MS is supposed to release a new compatible > > version of EM to work with Beta real soon now. > > > > http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07/04/172956.aspx > > http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07.aspx > > > > MS is supposed to bring out a new working version of EM that works > > against SQL Express but hasn't released it yet. > > I think you reregister sqldmo.dll > > But if you do EM won't work against SQL express. > > Gotcha ;) > > Install on different machines or use something like vmware. > > > > Martin Reid wrote: > > > > >Someone mentioned a blog highlighting issues with this. I REALLY NEED > that > > >address.. My SQL 2000 server is trashed becasue of the install of Beta 2. > > > > > >So be warned folks - I installed 2005 Express yesterday and EM and QA > now > > >dont work at all. ISQL is also out. > > > > > >Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Marty Connelly > > Victoria, B.C. > > Canada > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 16 15:40:18 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:40:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning References: <021201c483b9$156c8b40$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> <001701c483bb$51bb2a00$0100a8c0@Martin> Message-ID: <41211BB2.9070800@shaw.ca> FAQ: Installing SQL Express side by side with SQL 2000 Enterprise Manager seems to break EM. It is still broken when You uninstall Express. SQLDMO9 is culprit. MS is supposed to release a new compatible version of EM to work with Beta real soon now. http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07/04/172956.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07.aspx If you fix then EM won't work with Express better to install each on different machines or use something like vmware. Martin Reid wrote: >Someone mentioned a blog highlighting issues with this. I REALLY NEED that >address.. My SQL 2000 server is trashed becasue of the install of Beta 2. > >So be warned folks - I installed 2005 Express yesterday and EM and QA now >dont work at all. ISQL is also out. > >Martin > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon Aug 16 16:31:45 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:31:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658C3@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Quite a few Canucks living in Minnesota as well (myself for one)! We even have a curling club in St. Paul. 2 official languages, while being confusing and redundant, beats the heck out of having none like the US. Oh, and the term 'pissed' means drunk (or angry) in Canada as well. My favorite social event in college came around Christmas time. All of the posters said "Get kissed under the mistletoe", with the k crossed out and replaced with a p to spell the aforementioned word. Ah... Good times! (and with the stern OT warning in mind, I have ended my contribution to this thread) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday LOL. Oh, it's hard to forget the neighbors to the north.....they gave us their own bacon, they have peculiarities about having two official languages, and quite frankly, all of their talent moved here, cause half of Hollywood is from Canada! LOL! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Mon Aug 16 19:13:08 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:13:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <014b01c48398$a276aa50$3500a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: <022e01c483ee$fa3b6c70$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> > > > Following the same logic - when you write a system with > > a continuous form - do you display the *latest* records > > at the top - or make them scroll all the way down to > > see the latest data? This is starting to sound a lot like a big or little endian argument. It's issues like these that caused a state of perpetual war between Lilliput and Blefuscu, people!! So, I'm defying all convention, and putting my response in the middle!!!! No, seriously, two suggestions: 1. First responders, use one of the common conventions, like > > or , to help make clear what order you are replying in. 2. Thereafter, maintain the reply order of the thread, even if its the one you don't prefer. -Ken > > Nope. It goes at the bottom. Oldest at the top. Newest at the bottom. > Just like everything else I do. I need context, the older stuff, > before I can understand the new stuff. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Aug 16 19:35:24 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:35:24 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A9@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <4121DF6C.25832.4200FFD@lexacorp.com.pg> On 16 Aug 2004 at 12:08, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > cause half of Hollywood is from Canada! LOL! > Thereby raising the average IQ in both countries? -- Stuart From kathryn at bassett.net Mon Aug 16 19:56:37 2004 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:56:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2B4@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <3948se$61hqkg@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> Yes -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > Drew From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Mon Aug 16 20:01:29 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:01:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Jeffrey F Demulling/MN/USB is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 08/16/2004 and will not return until 08/17/2004. I will respond to your message when I return. Please contact Greg Paoli (651-495-3925) if you have an urgent matter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ============================================================================== From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Tue Aug 17 08:07:40 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:07:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] IsDirty Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B75@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I am having problems on the close button of my form. I want to make sure certain fields are completed before they close the form. I am trying to use IsDirty so the form closes if there hasn't been any changes made and also if all the fields have been completed. I am using the below code and receive the error, object not supported. This is a form/subform and the close button is on the subform. If I remove the IsDirty, it works. If Forms!frmEvalMain.frmEvalSub.Dirty = True Then 'Data Entered? Yes If Len(TypeID & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "You must enter a Type." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" TypeID.SetFocus ElseIf Len(Title & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "A title must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" Title.SetFocus ElseIf Len(Author & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "An Author must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" Author.SetFocus Else response = MsgBox("Do you want to Exit?", vbYesNo + vbQuestion, "Exit") If response = vbNo Then Title.SetFocus Else DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord DoCmd.Close acForm, "frmEvalMain" End If End If Else DoCmd.Close acForm, "frmEvalMain" End If Virginia From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Tue Aug 17 08:34:22 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:34:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Open Report Fails in SR3 Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B7C@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Last week I started having problems viewing reports. The report will not open and the database crashes. I am running A2k, SR-3. I also have A2003 on the same machine, but I do not use it, I am using the 2k. There was an auto-update last week from Microsoft; I do not know what it was, since they are automatically sent to our computers from the network. I am not sure if that had anything to do with this problem or not, or is it a coincidence. I talked to other people at work that are running A2k & still have SR1 and they do not have the problem. I heard that SR3 was supposed to fix problems with the Open Report. Is anyone else having problems opening reports? Virginia From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Aug 17 09:12:38 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:12:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] IsDirty In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B75@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <41229EF6.27823.1D9D18B@lexacorp.com.pg> On 17 Aug 2004 at 8:07, Hollis,Virginia wrote: > > If Forms!frmEvalMain.frmEvalSub.Dirty = True Then 'Data Entered? Yes Try Forms!frmEvalMain.frmEvalSub.Form.Dirty -- Stuart From kaupca at chevrontexaco.com Tue Aug 17 09:58:36 2004 From: kaupca at chevrontexaco.com (Kaup, Chester A) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:58:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts Message-ID: <193572B4E0FC1744BEDFEE63F82CEC9E0273966B@bocnte2k4.boc.chevrontexaco.net> Access has stopped asking when running a make table query about replacing the table and does not ask if I want to save a query when I change it. Probably just a setting somewhere but I am not finding it. Help please. Chester Kaup Information Management Technician IT-MidContinent/MidContinent Business Unit CTN 8-687-7415 Outside 432-687-7414 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 10:04:11 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:04:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2B6@main2.marlow.com> Then put this in a module: Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) AS String Dim strArray() As String strArray=Split(strPlace,", ") SplitDeathPlace=strArray(intPos) End Function And in your query, put the following for DeathCity: SplitDeathPlace([DeathPlace],0) Replace the 0 with 1 for deathcounty, and 2 for deathstate Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn Bassett Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place Yes -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 17 10:05:42 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:05:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts In-Reply-To: <193572B4E0FC1744BEDFEE63F82CEC9E0273966B@bocnte2k4.boc.chevrontexaco.net> Message-ID: <20040817150541.FLZN1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Tools, Options, Edit/Find tab, Confirm options. Susan H. Access has stopped asking when running a make table query about replacing the table and does not ask if I want to save a query when I change it. Probably just a setting somewhere but I am not finding it. Help please. From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Aug 17 10:07:47 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:07:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts Message-ID: <13982223.1092755267206.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Look in tools, options click the edit/find tab and make sure all boxes in the confirm section are checked.....if so, make sure there isn't any code to say set warnings false Paul Message date : Aug 17 2004, 04:04 PM >From : "Kaup, Chester A" To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Access no longer prompts Access has stopped asking when running a make table query about replacing the table and does not ask if I want to save a query when I change it. Probably just a setting somewhere but I am not finding it. Help please. Chester Kaup Information Management Technician IT-MidContinent/MidContinent Business Unit CTN 8-687-7415 Outside 432-687-7414 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Aug 17 10:12:03 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:12:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts Message-ID: <20040817151200.48C402504C3@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Or it could be that a routine somewhere sets warnings off and doesn't set them back on. You can soon prove this by knocking up a macro that does a SetWarnings True or a function that just does a DoCmd.Setwarnings True, then running it. Do your messages reappear? If so you've got to track down the culprit routine. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts Date: 17/08/04 15:07 > > Tools, Options, Edit/Find tab, Confirm options. > > Susan H. > > Access has stopped asking when running a make table query about replacing > the table and does not ask if I want to save a query when I change it. > Probably just a setting somewhere but I am not finding it. > Help please. > > > -- ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From liz at symphonyinfo.com Tue Aug 17 10:19:19 2004 From: liz at symphonyinfo.com (Liz Doering) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:19:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts In-Reply-To: <193572B4E0FC1744BEDFEE63F82CEC9E0273966B@bocnte2k4.boc.chevrontexaco.net> Message-ID: Here is one good use for a macro: make one that sets warnings true. Then if you have stopped code that set warnings false and find yourself in this (irritating) position, a quick click of your macro will restore the warnings. Liz -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester A Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 9:59 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts Access has stopped asking when running a make table query about replacing the table and does not ask if I want to save a query when I change it. Probably just a setting somewhere but I am not finding it. Help please. Chester Kaup Information Management Technician IT-MidContinent/MidContinent Business Unit CTN 8-687-7415 Outside 432-687-7414 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 17 10:46:40 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:46:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Message-ID: The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul From jmhla at earthlink.net Tue Aug 17 10:51:57 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:51:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200408171551.i7HFptQ14040@databaseadvisors.com> Look and see if the a security file failed to close. Sometimes they stay open and make the database think a table is in use. Joe Hecht jmhla at earthlink.net 28g -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 17 10:51:36 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:51:36 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] IsDirty In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B75@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B75@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <9431436893.20040817175136@cactus.dk> Hi Virginia Looks like you need to read up how to reference subforms etc.: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newletters/newsletter032004/0310ReferenceGuide/SyntaxForSubs.htm /gustav > I am having problems on the close button of my form. I want to make sure > certain fields are completed before they close the form. I am trying to use > IsDirty so the form closes if there hasn't been any changes made and also if > all the fields have been completed. I am using the below code and receive > the error, object not supported. This is a form/subform and the close button > is on the subform. If I remove the IsDirty, it works. > If Forms!frmEvalMain.frmEvalSub.Dirty = True Then 'Data Entered? Yes > If Len(TypeID & "") = 0 Then > MsgBox "You must enter a Type." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry > Required" > TypeID.SetFocus > ElseIf Len(Title & "") = 0 Then > MsgBox "A title must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry > Required" > Title.SetFocus > ElseIf Len(Author & "") = 0 Then > MsgBox "An Author must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry > Required" > Author.SetFocus > Else > response = MsgBox("Do you want to Exit?", vbYesNo + vbQuestion, > "Exit") > If response = vbNo Then > Title.SetFocus > Else > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord > DoCmd.Close acForm, "frmEvalMain" > End If > End If > Else > DoCmd.Close acForm, "frmEvalMain" > End If > Virginia From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Aug 17 10:59:11 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:59:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated References: Message-ID: <41222B4F.1090009@shaw.ca> Try moving your tables with this command from debug to a new mdb. It may remove the lock. SaveAsText 6, "", c:\access\mynew.mdb" Paul Rodgers wrote: >The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is >busy with the table. But this is not so. > >I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another >database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. > >I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database >refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. > >I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. > >Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? >Cheers paul > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From JColby at dispec.com Tue Aug 17 11:17:29 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:17:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC4@DISABILITYINS01> Are there any memo fields in the table? If so that may be the problem, memos get corrupted. If that is the case it is one or more specific memos (specific records). The easiest way to determine is to create the table structure only (empty) in another db then append all the records to that table. If there are corrupt memos the copy will fail. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Aug 17 11:19:25 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Message-ID: <20040817161925.7582.qmail@web20428.mail.yahoo.com> Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Aug 17 11:20:29 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:20:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Tue Aug 17 12:02:19 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:02:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658C8@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N "" /A =', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Tue Aug 17 12:01:20 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:01:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2B6@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: I'm doing something wrong. I clicked on Modules and then on New. I pasted in the Function code. Named the module SplitDeathPlace. Compiled it. Saved it. First indication something not right is that when I'm back at Modules, the SplitDeathPlace doesn't show up. But when I click on new again, it is there. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessmodulesplitdeathplace.jpg Thinking that there is a reason it's not showing, I go on to next step and make an (update) query. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessquerysplitdeathplace.jpg When I try to run it, I get: Undefined function 'SplitDeathPlace' in expression Does not showing on the main screen right panel when clicking on modules on main screen left panel have anything to do with this? This is the first module I've made, so maybe how I did it was wrong? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:04 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Then put this in a module: > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) AS String > Dim strArray() As String > strArray=Split(strPlace,", ") > SplitDeathPlace=strArray(intPos) > End Function > > And in your query, put the following for DeathCity: > > SplitDeathPlace([DeathPlace],0) > > Replace the 0 with 1 for deathcounty, and 2 for deathstate > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn > Bassett > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:57 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Yes > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 17 13:04:21 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:04:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report Message-ID: <054801c48484$9f9247d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I have two reports with two different record sources which I have placed on another report. So they're sub-reports but not linked parent-child to the main report. Each runs okay standalone, but when I run the main report with the two sub-reports on it it blows up on the statement Me.Filter = ""; says the setting you entered isn't valid for this property. Same with Me.FilterOn = False. These statements are in the _Open event of the sub-report, preparatory to creating a filter from the user's selected options on the form which calls the report. Anyone know why I can't set the filter on the sub-report? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From blansett at holly.colostate.edu Tue Aug 17 13:05:20 2004 From: blansett at holly.colostate.edu (Catherine Blansett) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:05:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <005c01c48484$c26eb040$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> Hi, I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional database program for her non-profit agency (front-end and back-end). She is receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no reason to do this. Is there any reason to move? Thanks Catherine From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 17 13:19:07 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:19:07 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <005c01c48484$c26eb040$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> References: <005c01c48484$c26eb040$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> Message-ID: <12540288411.20040817201907@cactus.dk> Hi Catherine As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer is No. Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. /gustav > I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional database program for her non-profit agency (front-end > and back-end). She is receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no reason to do this. > Is there any reason to move? > Thanks > Catherine From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 17 13:21:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:21:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report In-Reply-To: <054801c48484$9f9247d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <054801c48484$9f9247d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <12940412560.20040817202112@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky Why don't you apply the filter to the queries which drive the subreports? /gustav > I have two reports with two different record sources which I have placed on another report. So they're sub-reports but not linked parent-child to the main report. > Each runs okay standalone, but when I run the main report with the two sub-reports on it it blows up on the statement Me.Filter = ""; says the setting you entered isn't valid for this property. > Same with Me.FilterOn = False. > These statements are in the _Open event of the sub-report, preparatory to creating a filter from the user's selected options on the form which calls the report. > Anyone know why I can't set the filter on the sub-report? From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 17 13:32:58 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:32:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report References: <054801c48484$9f9247d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <12940412560.20040817202112@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <056f01c48488$9f2901e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Gustav: Mostly because I've always done it the other way and never learned how to apply the filters directly to the queries. I have set the recordsource in a report by modifying the SQL statement that represents the query. Guess I'll try that. Thanks, Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report > Hi Rocky > > Why don't you apply the filter to the queries which drive the > subreports? > > /gustav > > > > I have two reports with two different record sources which I have placed on another report. So they're sub-reports but not linked parent-child to the main report. > > > Each runs okay standalone, but when I run the main report with the two sub-reports on it it blows up on the statement Me.Filter = ""; says the setting you entered isn't valid for this property. > > Same with Me.FilterOn = False. > > > These statements are in the _Open event of the sub-report, preparatory to creating a filter from the user's selected options on the form which calls the report. > > > Anyone know why I can't set the filter on the sub-report? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From my.lists at verizon.net Tue Aug 17 13:39:40 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:39:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <12540288411.20040817201907@cactus.dk> References: <005c01c48484$c26eb040$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> <12540288411.20040817201907@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <412250EC.2060809@verizon.net> Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short >answer is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco From Dave.Bucher at state.mn.us Tue Aug 17 13:45:23 2004 From: Dave.Bucher at state.mn.us (Bucher, Dave) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:45:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: OT-Canada north? Since when? Message-ID: As a Minnesotan who lives SOUTH of MOST Canadians, a review of latitudes is in order. In St. Paul we are, in fact, slightly north of Toronto. My wife is Canadian/American and heads south for there frequently. I now refer to Canada as "over there". (Continued thanks to this list for all the Access help.) :) Dave Bucher Information Technology Specialist Children's Research, Planning and Evaluation Minnesota Dept. of Human Services From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Tue Aug 17 13:55:07 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:55:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658C9@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From JColby at dispec.com Tue Aug 17 14:04:22 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:04:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC8@DISABILITYINS01> >Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. Badmouthing Clippy will make you no friends! ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Tue Aug 17 14:17:03 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:17:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC9@DISABILITYINS01> Is there some "break" character that I can place in front of or around a comma to tell Access' wizard that links comma delimited files that a comma is not a field separator but a real data in the data? IOW 27 Heath Way, #27 turns into two fields when imported (skewing the data) where I really want to pull the data into a single field. I can replace the comma with a tab but would like to solve this problem for the future. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N "" /A =', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 17 14:18:29 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:18:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report References: <054801c48484$9f9247d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <12940412560.20040817202112@cactus.dk> <056f01c48488$9f2901e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <059a01c4848e$fae5e790$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Gustav: Well, that worked - copying the sql text into the _Open event of the sub-reports and then adding the 'HAVING' clauses (these are summation queries) then appending the ORDER BY clause. But I'm still curious why I can;'t seem to set the filter on a sub-report. Is this the case? And is there a workaround? Finally, when you modify the query which is the record source of the sub-report by adding parameters (using querydef, I assume?), do you have to unset the parameters the next time you run the report if the user has not selected any filtering? Thanks for your help, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report > Gustav: > > Mostly because I've always done it the other way and never learned how to > apply the filters directly to the queries. I have set the recordsource in a > report by modifying the SQL statement that represents the query. Guess I'll > try that. > > Thanks, > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:21 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report > > > > Hi Rocky > > > > Why don't you apply the filter to the queries which drive the > > subreports? > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > I have two reports with two different record sources which I have placed > on another report. So they're sub-reports but not linked parent-child to > the main report. > > > > > Each runs okay standalone, but when I run the main report with the two > sub-reports on it it blows up on the statement Me.Filter = ""; says the > setting you entered isn't valid for this property. > > > Same with Me.FilterOn = False. > > > > > These statements are in the _Open event of the sub-report, preparatory > to creating a filter from the user's selected options on the form which > calls the report. > > > > > Anyone know why I can't set the filter on the sub-report? > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From alan.lawhon at us.army.mil Tue Aug 17 14:18:44 2004 From: alan.lawhon at us.army.mil (Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:18:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E174490DE@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Thanks for the encouragement, Brett!! I just got thru spending a (minor) fortune for an upgrade to Windows XP Pro (OS) and Office 2003 (XP) Pro. I was looking forward to getting familiar with all the new "bells and whistles" in Access 2003, but from what you're saying it looks like all I can look forward to is nothing but problems ... :-((( Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Aug 17 14:25:54 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:25:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FEDA3@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Don't believe that A2K3 is all that bad. We're still on A97 and moving to the latest/greatest by years end. In spite of potential problems if you like better XML support and cool hooks from .NET world then it's still an interesting upgrade IMHO. The SharePoint stuff seems pretty neat too. But would I upgrade a client if I didn't have a reason too? NO!!! Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Thanks for the encouragement, Brett!! I just got thru spending a (minor) fortune for an upgrade to Windows XP Pro (OS) and Office 2003 (XP) Pro. I was looking forward to getting familiar with all the new "bells and whistles" in Access 2003, but from what you're saying it looks like all I can look forward to is nothing but problems ... :-((( Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Aug 17 14:48:38 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:48:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Kathryn: If you are calling a function from a query that function must be set to PUBLIC. Example: Public Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, .... HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place I'm doing something wrong. I clicked on Modules and then on New. I pasted in the Function code. Named the module SplitDeathPlace. Compiled it. Saved it. First indication something not right is that when I'm back at Modules, the SplitDeathPlace doesn't show up. But when I click on new again, it is there. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessmodulesplitdeathplace.jpg Thinking that there is a reason it's not showing, I go on to next step and make an (update) query. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessquerysplitdeathplace.jpg When I try to run it, I get: Undefined function 'SplitDeathPlace' in expression Does not showing on the main screen right panel when clicking on modules on main screen left panel have anything to do with this? This is the first module I've made, so maybe how I did it was wrong? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:04 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Then put this in a module: > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) AS String > Dim strArray() As String > strArray=Split(strPlace,", ") > SplitDeathPlace=strArray(intPos) > End Function > > And in your query, put the following for DeathCity: > > SplitDeathPlace([DeathPlace],0) > > Replace the 0 with 1 for deathcounty, and 2 for deathstate > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn > Bassett > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:57 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Yes > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 14:59:25 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:59:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BA@main2.marlow.com> Name the module modSplitDeathPlace. Having the module, and function, with the same name, is what is kicking up that error. Also, I just ran the code against the copy I had...change the code to this: Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) As String Dim strArray() As String strArray = Split(strPlace, ",") If intPos > UBound(strArray) Then SplitDeathPlace = "" Else SplitDeathPlace = Trim(strArray(intPos)) End If End Function That should handle any issues that pop up. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place I'm doing something wrong. I clicked on Modules and then on New. I pasted in the Function code. Named the module SplitDeathPlace. Compiled it. Saved it. First indication something not right is that when I'm back at Modules, the SplitDeathPlace doesn't show up. But when I click on new again, it is there. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessmodulesplitdeathplace.jpg Thinking that there is a reason it's not showing, I go on to next step and make an (update) query. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessquerysplitdeathplace.jpg When I try to run it, I get: Undefined function 'SplitDeathPlace' in expression Does not showing on the main screen right panel when clicking on modules on main screen left panel have anything to do with this? This is the first module I've made, so maybe how I did it was wrong? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:04 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Then put this in a module: > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) AS String > Dim strArray() As String > strArray=Split(strPlace,", ") > SplitDeathPlace=strArray(intPos) > End Function > > And in your query, put the following for DeathCity: > > SplitDeathPlace([DeathPlace],0) > > Replace the 0 with 1 for deathcounty, and 2 for deathstate > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn > Bassett > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:57 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Yes > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 17 15:03:02 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:03:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: Yeah, but 2003 got a service pack within months .... Does that suggest how badly it needed that SP?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Tue Aug 17 15:15:26 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:15:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FEDA3@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FEDA3@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <4122675E.3080505@verizon.net> Jim DeMarco wrote On 8/17/2004 12:25 PM: >Don't believe that A2K3 is all that bad. We're still on A97 and moving to the latest/greatest by years end. In spite of potential problems if you like better XML support and cool hooks from .NET world then it's still an interesting upgrade IMHO. The SharePoint stuff seems pretty neat too. > >But would I upgrade a client if I didn't have a reason too? NO!!! > > A2003 has a lot of neat new features, heck One looke at the circuitboard image on the splash screen clued me in on that right away. ;o). What I'm NOT liking is the use of the digital certificate that MS forces your users to click on now a days. This is to help the clueless users ensure that they will be protected from "unauthorized" software. Yet when you download anything from WinAmp to TaxCut, you never get a question of "ARE YOU SURE YOU WISH TO RUN THIS UNSIGNED DOCUMENT?", that's not going to promote healthy computing, it's only going to make your users Question why you didn't create a digital signature. When you finally do, they'll ask why they have to authorize it. I find that pointless and a hassle with newbee users. Other than that, I can't find too many bad things to say about it, but I don't use A2003, I'm still developing in A2000. -- -Francisco From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 15:24:39 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:24:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BC@main2.marlow.com> Just out of curiousity, what version is the application in? I never used 2.0, but as many listers have posted, it's rock solid. 95 was horribly flaky, but 97 is as solid as it gets. I don't think they've improved on 97's performance at all (at least I haven't heard of any performance increases). Sounds like there is a different reason to push an upgrade, other then this Access App. In fact, Access applications are one of the largest tasks involved in an upgrade. Our company still uses Office 97 on all of it's 150+ work stations. There are newer versions of Outlook on some machines, but that's it. We do plan on eventually upgrading to a newer version of Office, when the budget allows. Two issues we will be concerned with, at that time, is getting it installed network wide, and ensuring all of our .mdb's are working. There are not many 'coded' .mdb's on the network, mostly querries/reports. 95% of the stuff I have done either have VB or ASP front ends, so an upgrade won't affect them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Catherine Blansett Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:05 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Hi, I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional database program for her non-profit agency (front-end and back-end). She is receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no reason to do this. Is there any reason to move? Thanks Catherine -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pjewett at bayplace.com Tue Aug 17 15:25:07 2004 From: pjewett at bayplace.com (Phil Jewett) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:25:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Pass Through to DTS package (Lonnie Johnson) Message-ID: I've always run my DTS packages by putting the command in a stored procedure and running that. But I imagine you could put the command line directly in the pass-through query; e.g. exec master.dbo.xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /Fc:\mydts\DTS_mypackage.dts /NDTS_mypackage' Phil Jewett >Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 15:25:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:25:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: OT-Canada north? Since when? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BD@main2.marlow.com> Ah, but to someone living in Dallas, ya'all up north...darn yanks! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bucher, Dave Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] RE: OT-Canada north? Since when? As a Minnesotan who lives SOUTH of MOST Canadians, a review of latitudes is in order. In St. Paul we are, in fact, slightly north of Toronto. My wife is Canadian/American and heads south for there frequently. I now refer to Canada as "over there". (Continued thanks to this list for all the Access help.) :) Dave Bucher Information Technology Specialist Children's Research, Planning and Evaluation Minnesota Dept. of Human Services -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Tue Aug 17 15:31:46 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:31:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1ED@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> What did the service pack fix? Does 2003 have any major problems? Some folks on this list mentioned that when developing in XP they use A2K file format because of the bloat problem. Is there any such problem with 2003? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Yeah, but 2003 got a service pack within months .... Does that suggest how badly it needed that SP?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 15:43:21 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:43:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BE@main2.marlow.com> I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? >Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. Badmouthing Clippy will make you no friends! ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 15:46:30 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:46:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BF@main2.marlow.com> Two situations. commas in Text....Yes, just use a text delimiter, such as double quotes. Then access will ignore any commas in double quoted text. The other situation, would be if you were using a number system which uses the comma instead of the period for a decimal point. Not sure how to get around that one.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Is there some "break" character that I can place in front of or around a comma to tell Access' wizard that links comma delimited files that a comma is not a field separator but a real data in the data? IOW 27 Heath Way, #27 turns into two fields when imported (skewing the data) where I really want to pull the data into a single field. I can replace the comma with a tab but would like to solve this problem for the future. JWC From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 17 15:47:34 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:47:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E174490DE@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: <20040817204735.CGPH1756.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I switched to 2003 -- I have to as soon as they're out. Granted, I don't "develop" the way you guys do, but honestly, I've not had any problems with it. And there are a few new features that some folks will find handy -- not earth-shaking or anything -- but nice. Susan H. Thanks for the encouragement, Brett!! I just got thru spending a (minor) fortune for an upgrade to Windows XP Pro (OS) and Office 2003 (XP) Pro. I was looking forward to getting familiar with all the new "bells and whistles" in Access 2003, but from what you're saying it looks like all I can look forward to is nothing but problems ... :-((( From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue Aug 17 15:47:54 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:47:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Message-ID: I had data that had quotation marks (single and double), commas, preformatted tabs as well as preformatted multiple spaces...I ended up using the tilde character (~) as my delimiter...so far so good;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Is there some "break" character that I can place in front of or around a comma to tell Access' wizard that links comma delimited files that a comma is not a field separator but a real data in the data? IOW 27 Heath Way, #27 turns into two fields when imported (skewing the data) where I really want to pull the data into a single field. I can replace the comma with a tab but would like to solve this problem for the future. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N "" /A =', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Aug 17 15:48:18 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] RE: Pass Through to DTS package (Lonnie Johnson) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040817204818.9447.qmail@web20425.mail.yahoo.com> Is mydts a folder? Phil Jewett wrote:I've always run my DTS packages by putting the command in a stored procedure and running that. But I imagine you could put the command line directly in the pass-through query; e.g. exec master.dbo.xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /Fc:\mydts\DTS_mypackage.dts /NDTS_mypackage' Phil Jewett >Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 15:49:08 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:49:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2C0@main2.marlow.com> Public is the default (isn't it?). Kathryn named the module the same as the function, which is what was throughing the query off. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place Hi Kathryn: If you are calling a function from a query that function must be set to PUBLIC. Example: Public Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, .... HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place I'm doing something wrong. I clicked on Modules and then on New. I pasted in the Function code. Named the module SplitDeathPlace. Compiled it. Saved it. First indication something not right is that when I'm back at Modules, the SplitDeathPlace doesn't show up. But when I click on new again, it is there. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessmodulesplitdeathplace.jpg Thinking that there is a reason it's not showing, I go on to next step and make an (update) query. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessquerysplitdeathplace.jpg When I try to run it, I get: Undefined function 'SplitDeathPlace' in expression Does not showing on the main screen right panel when clicking on modules on main screen left panel have anything to do with this? This is the first module I've made, so maybe how I did it was wrong? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:04 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Then put this in a module: > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) AS String > Dim strArray() As String > strArray=Split(strPlace,", ") > SplitDeathPlace=strArray(intPos) > End Function > > And in your query, put the following for DeathCity: > > SplitDeathPlace([DeathPlace],0) > > Replace the 0 with 1 for deathcounty, and 2 for deathstate > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn > Bassett > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:57 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Yes > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 17 15:50:50 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:50:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040817205051.CJCS1756.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Priceless. ;) Susan H. I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 16:09:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:09:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2C2@main2.marlow.com> Thanks....just felt like goofing around a bit. I couldn't stop laughing while making that image though..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Priceless. ;) Susan H. I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Tue Aug 17 16:09:06 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:09:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658CA@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Hey, hold on a sec! Nobody said that 2003 was "nothing but problems". It's a simple industry fact (MS or otherwise, though some are buggier than others) that a new version release contains inherent bugs. These bugs take time to compile, investigate and fix, resulting in hotfixes and service packs. You like the bells and whistles in Office 2003? Me too, that's why I upgraded. But to make the purchase because it will "work better with their upgraded machines"? That's just nonsense! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Thanks for the encouragement, Brett!! I just got thru spending a (minor) fortune for an upgrade to Windows XP Pro (OS) and Office 2003 (XP) Pro. I was looking forward to getting familiar with all the new "bells and whistles" in Access 2003, but from what you're saying it looks like all I can look forward to is nothing but problems ... :-((( Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 17 16:17:25 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:17:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: I understand that the bloat problem is still around in 2003, but I can't tell you that from experience. Most of the developers I know world-wide are still using 2000 or 2002. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? What did the service pack fix? Does 2003 have any major problems? Some folks on this list mentioned that when developing in XP they use A2K file format because of the bloat problem. Is there any such problem with 2003? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Yeah, but 2003 got a service pack within months .... Does that suggest how badly it needed that SP?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Aug 17 16:31:20 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658C8@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <20040817213120.38633.qmail@web20424.mail.yahoo.com> OK, I got this to run successfully but it is not actually updating my records. When I take out the NO_OUTPUT it actually says 42 records affected. But when I look in the table, they are not chaged. This is my command... EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S "SQLSVR1" /E /N "TestPackage" /A ', NO_OUTPUT Can you see anything wrong? Brett Barabash wrote: Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N " Name>" /A = ', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. From JHewson at karta.com Tue Aug 17 16:33:42 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:33:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1F5@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Thanks. Are you using the 2000 format with 2003? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? I understand that the bloat problem is still around in 2003, but I can't tell you that from experience. Most of the developers I know world-wide are still using 2000 or 2002. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? What did the service pack fix? Does 2003 have any major problems? Some folks on this list mentioned that when developing in XP they use A2K file format because of the bloat problem. Is there any such problem with 2003? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Yeah, but 2003 got a service pack within months .... Does that suggest how badly it needed that SP?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From MPorter at acsalaska.com Tue Aug 17 16:34:42 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:34:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] RE: OT-Canada north? Since when? Message-ID: <635B80FE6C7D5A409586A6A110D97D170E4C3F@ACSANCHOR.corp.acsalaska.com> And to us Alaskans...well...we won't go there and further upset the list masters over this OT thread ;) I'll leave Texas alone as well - heh. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:26 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: OT-Canada north? Since when? > > > Ah, but to someone living in Dallas, ya'all up north...darn > yanks! grin> > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bucher, Dave > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:45 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] RE: OT-Canada north? Since when? > > > As a Minnesotan who lives SOUTH of MOST Canadians, a review > of latitudes is > in order. In St. Paul we are, in fact, slightly north of > Toronto. My wife > is Canadian/American and heads south for there frequently. I > now refer to > Canada as "over there". > > (Continued thanks to this list for all the Access help.) > > :) > > Dave Bucher > Information Technology Specialist > Children's Research, Planning and Evaluation > Minnesota Dept. of Human Services > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > *********************************************************************************** 17/8/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: InterScan_Disclaimer.txt URL: From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Aug 17 16:36:26 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:36:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? References: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1ED@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: <41227A5A.2010105@shaw.ca> Not much in Access just problems with conversion dialog box and security hot fixes Mostly for Word Excel and Outlook. Office 2003 SP1 download http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=9C51D3A6-7CB1-4F61-837E-5F938254FC47&displaylang=en List of changes http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=842532 Jim Hewson wrote: >What did the service pack fix? >Does 2003 have any major problems? >Some folks on this list mentioned that when developing in XP they use A2K file format because of the bloat problem. Is there any such problem with 2003? > >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:03 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > >Yeah, but 2003 got a service pack within months .... Does that suggest >how badly it needed that SP?? > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] >Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:55 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > >Ooh you forgot one: >6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. > >We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't >upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes >at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced >with each new version. > >And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on >Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that >tend to break office applications). > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H >Tapia >Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > >Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: > > > >>Hi Catherine >> >>As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >> >> > > > >>is No. >> >>Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. >> >> >> >> >Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: > >1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign >2) You're running Ms Access 95 >3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses >Activation Keys. >4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. >5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: > You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. > >I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade > >-- >-Francisco > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >-------------------------------------------- >The information in this email may contain confidential information that >is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the >intended >recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the >taking >of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly >prohibited. If >transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the >sender >immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are >prohibited >from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required >to >destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > >Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, >except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be >the views of Tappe Construction Co. > >This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for >the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition >of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in >conjunction with virus detection software. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From kathryn at bassett.net Tue Aug 17 16:42:01 2004 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:42:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BA@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <391ph9$69d623@mxip02a.cluster1.charter.net> Works but... Got message at work just before I left and followed your suggestions. It does the update but my results don't look right on first glance. Didn't have time to see what is going on. I'm going to try to work on it here at home today or tomorrow to see if my first glance at results was playing games or now. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 17 Aug 2004 12:59 pm > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > Name the module modSplitDeathPlace. Having the module, and > function, with the same name, is what is kicking up that error. > > Also, I just ran the code against the copy I had...change the > code to this: > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) > As String Dim strArray() As String strArray = Split(strPlace, > ",") If intPos > UBound(strArray) Then > SplitDeathPlace = "" > Else > SplitDeathPlace = Trim(strArray(intPos)) End If End Function > > That should handle any issues that pop up. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > KathrynAtGwens > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:01 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > I'm doing something wrong. > I clicked on Modules and then on New. I pasted in the > Function code. Named the module SplitDeathPlace. Compiled it. > Saved it. First indication something not right is that when > I'm back at Modules, the SplitDeathPlace doesn't show up. But > when I click on new again, it is there. > http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessmodulesplitdeathplace.jpg > > Thinking that there is a reason it's not showing, I go on to > next step and make an (update) query. > http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessquerysplitdeathplace.jpg > When I try to run it, I get: > Undefined function 'SplitDeathPlace' in expression > > Does not showing on the main screen right panel when clicking > on modules on main screen left panel have anything to do with this? > > This is the first module I've made, so maybe how I did it was wrong? > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:04 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > > > Then put this in a module: > > > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As > Long) AS String > > Dim strArray() As String strArray=Split(strPlace,", ") > > SplitDeathPlace=strArray(intPos) > > End Function > > > > And in your query, put the following for DeathCity: > > > > SplitDeathPlace([DeathPlace],0) > > > > Replace the 0 with 1 for deathcounty, and 2 for deathstate > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn > > Bassett > > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:57 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > > > Yes > > > > -- > > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my > bag" "GH is > > my soap" > > kathryn at bassett.net > > http://bassett.net > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > > > > > Drew > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 17 16:43:34 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:43:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: I'm not using 2003. I still stick with 2002, 2000 and 97. I'll need to add 2003 eventually just to stay current, but I see no reason to upgrade my entire Office. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Thanks. Are you using the 2000 format with 2003? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? I understand that the bloat problem is still around in 2003, but I can't tell you that from experience. Most of the developers I know world-wide are still using 2000 or 2002. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? What did the service pack fix? Does 2003 have any major problems? Some folks on this list mentioned that when developing in XP they use A2K file format because of the bloat problem. Is there any such problem with 2003? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Yeah, but 2003 got a service pack within months .... Does that suggest how badly it needed that SP?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 17 16:54:32 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:54:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ohh I like that. Can the link table wizard accept that? JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data I had data that had quotation marks (single and double), commas, preformatted tabs as well as preformatted multiple spaces...I ended up using the tilde character (~) as my delimiter...so far so good;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Is there some "break" character that I can place in front of or around a comma to tell Access' wizard that links comma delimited files that a comma is not a field separator but a real data in the data? IOW 27 Heath Way, #27 turns into two fields when imported (skewing the data) where I really want to pull the data into a single field. I can replace the comma with a tab but would like to solve this problem for the future. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N "" /A =', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 17 16:59:18 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:59:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2C2@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: ROTFLMAO. You left out "commit suicide" JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 5:09 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Thanks....just felt like goofing around a bit. I couldn't stop laughing while making that image though..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Priceless. ;) Susan H. I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mastercafe at ctv.es Tue Aug 17 17:26:44 2004 From: mastercafe at ctv.es (MastercafeCTV) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:26:44 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access XP Bug In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC9@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <004f01c484a9$476901a0$0500a8c0@masterserver> Last two month we develope a tool for tale any report and send to any format. This tool run nice before we make some changes to improve there possibilities. We found that the new version only run one or two times on any version of our applications, the error that you can find in the second time that you use is: NOT ENOUGH MEMORY. Check all code, make some changes, and many more things to look for this error. The main problem was that the form run correct only 1 time on each application, the nest time MEMORY ERROR. This week we found the problem: is you put a ComboBox with the assistant you can see that combo limitations is 20 fields. But is you make the combo manually you can put more than 20 fields. Well... This is the bug, if you put more than 20 fields the combo produce and OUT OF MEMORY on the form for the next run. If any person from the group are interested over this utility we can send by mail (one note all comments are in Spanish). Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 17 17:35:35 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:35:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access XP Bug Message-ID: But why would you *want* a combobox with 20 fields in it?! I agree, it is a bug to allow it if it breaks the app, but using 20 fields is probably a poor way to get where you want to go anyhow. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MastercafeCTV [mailto:mastercafe at ctv.es] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access XP Bug Last two month we develope a tool for tale any report and send to any format. This tool run nice before we make some changes to improve there possibilities. We found that the new version only run one or two times on any version of our applications, the error that you can find in the second time that you use is: NOT ENOUGH MEMORY. Check all code, make some changes, and many more things to look for this error. The main problem was that the form run correct only 1 time on each application, the nest time MEMORY ERROR. This week we found the problem: is you put a ComboBox with the assistant you can see that combo limitations is 20 fields. But is you make the combo manually you can put more than 20 fields. Well... This is the bug, if you put more than 20 fields the combo produce and OUT OF MEMORY on the form for the next run. If any person from the group are interested over this utility we can send by mail (one note all comments are in Spanish). Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Tue Aug 17 17:37:41 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:37:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658CD@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> You can omit the /A if you aren't passing in parameter values. Are there any other messages given? Depending on your package transaction setup, it may rollback the works if it doesn't succeed on any one of the steps. Are you sure that this package is working properly (i.e. have you tested it from the DTS package designer?) Can you test it from a command prompt on the server? Query Analyzer? And the most important one of all. Make sure that the account running the stored procedure has proper access rights: - In Enterprise Manager, expand the Management folder - Right click on the SQL Server Agent Properties - Check the Non-SysAdmin job step proxy account section. - If it is unchecked, then only SysAdmins can use xp_cmdshell. - If it is checked, then ensure that the Proxy Account is pointing to an account with SysAdmin rights. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package --------------------------------------------------------------- OK, I got this to run successfully but it is not actually updating my records. When I take out the NO_OUTPUT it actually says 42 records affected. But when I look in the table, they are not chaged. This is my command... EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S "SQLSVR1" /E /N "TestPackage" /A ', NO_OUTPUT Can you see anything wrong? Brett Barabash wrote: Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N " Name>" /A = ', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Aug 17 17:40:50 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:40:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Very funny.... Has John seen this? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? >Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. Badmouthing Clippy will make you no friends! ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mastercafe at ctv.es Tue Aug 17 17:46:40 2004 From: mastercafe at ctv.es (MastercafeCTV) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:46:40 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access XP Bug In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005b01c484ac$1e963ba0$0500a8c0@masterserver> Yes... Some times to make less code use this trick to put field.column(n) in the rest of fields on the form, but for this... I'm sure that it's not the way to take. We change this open the database and taking the fields information. Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: mi?rcoles, 18 de agosto de 2004 00:36 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access XP Bug But why would you *want* a combobox with 20 fields in it?! I agree, it is a bug to allow it if it breaks the app, but using 20 fields is probably a poor way to get where you want to go anyhow. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MastercafeCTV [mailto:mastercafe at ctv.es] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access XP Bug Last two month we develope a tool for tale any report and send to any format. This tool run nice before we make some changes to improve there possibilities. We found that the new version only run one or two times on any version of our applications, the error that you can find in the second time that you use is: NOT ENOUGH MEMORY. Check all code, make some changes, and many more things to look for this error. The main problem was that the form run correct only 1 time on each application, the nest time MEMORY ERROR. This week we found the problem: is you put a ComboBox with the assistant you can see that combo limitations is 20 fields. But is you make the combo manually you can put more than 20 fields. Well... This is the bug, if you put more than 20 fields the combo produce and OUT OF MEMORY on the form for the next run. If any person from the group are interested over this utility we can send by mail (one note all comments are in Spanish). Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pjewett at bayplace.com Tue Aug 17 18:00:08 2004 From: pjewett at bayplace.com (Phil Jewett) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:00:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Pass Through to DTS package Message-ID: To clarify, I have always kept my DTS packages as files, not as database objects - thus the odd syntax. So my file in the below example is 'c:\mydts\DTS_mypackage.dts'. Note that the path/filename must always be from the SQL Server's point of view. But I must add that I never liked using DTS, as it is so inherently obscure, from design through execution. Nowadays I bulk insert if there is a whole lot of records to get the records into the database, and then use regular insert/update stored procedures to transform the data. You can use functions in SQL 2000, and thus get pretty fancy with data massaging. Phil Jewett >Is mydts a folder? Phil Jewett wrote:I've always run my DTS packages by putting the command in a stored procedure and running that. But I imagine you could put the command line directly in the pass-through query; e.g. exec master.dbo.xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /Fc:\mydts\DTS_mypackage.dts /NDTS_mypackage' >Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 17 18:21:27 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:21:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: LOL. The least clippy could do is offer to send me an email so I can help the poor guy out. ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Very funny.... Has John seen this? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? >Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. Badmouthing Clippy will make you no friends! ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Aug 17 18:31:56 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:31:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) In-Reply-To: <12638296.1092760713862.JavaMail.root@sniper6.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <001501c484b2$630f2ac0$de1811d8@danwaters> Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Aug 17 18:31:57 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:31:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <19088718.1092766524873.JavaMail.root@sniper12.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <001601c484b2$63728070$de1811d8@danwaters> Catherine, If Access 95 is being used, upgrade right away. Access 97 was much more reliable. Access 2000 includes a 'compact on close' option that is pretty useful where people can't (or won't) compact regularly. Access 2002 includes a Me.OpenArgs property for reports that is really nice to program with. If you end up using A02 or A03, keep the database in A00 format. There is a bug in A02 and A03 that can bloat the database if the format is not left in A00. BTW, if you can get a copy of the Access 2002 Developer's Handbook, it has a good description of the changes that occurred from Access 2.0 to Access 2002. Also, what is the belief that a newer version of Access will run better on their upgraded machines? ANY version of Access will run better on ANY upgraded machine. Best of Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Catherine Blansett Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:05 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Hi, I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional database program for her non-profit agency (front-end and back-end). She is receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no reason to do this. Is there any reason to move? Thanks Catherine -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 17 19:03:26 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:03:26 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: <00c501c484b6$c946a120$4a619a89@uwsm009469> Hello all This is way OT so any replies please send them to d.dick at uws.edu.au In Outlook Express it seems to me I can only apply rules to INCOMING MAIL. Is this correct? If I can set up rules for outgoing mail can some one please tell me how? Have a great day Darren From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 17 19:10:15 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:10:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: Far as I know, that's the way it works in Outlook too. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:03 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Hello all This is way OT so any replies please send them to d.dick at uws.edu.au In Outlook Express it seems to me I can only apply rules to INCOMING MAIL. Is this correct? If I can set up rules for outgoing mail can some one please tell me how? Have a great day Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Aug 17 19:13:00 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:13:00 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts In-Reply-To: <20040817151200.48C402504C3@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <41232BAC.21161.3FF7791@lexacorp.com.pg> On 17 Aug 2004 at 16:12, Andy Lacey wrote: > Or it could be that a routine somewhere sets warnings off and doesn't set > them back on. You can soon prove this by knocking up a macro that does a > SetWarnings True or a function that just does a DoCmd.Setwarnings True, then > running it Or just do a Ctrl+G and enter "Docmd.Setwarnings True" in the Immediate Window. -- Stuart From andrew.curtis at wapl.com.au Tue Aug 17 19:19:46 2004 From: andrew.curtis at wapl.com.au (Curtis, Andrew (WAPL)) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:19:46 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: Outlook 2003: Tools->rules and alerts New Rule Start from Blank rule Check messages when they arrive OR check messages after sending is available. Outlook express only does incoming Outlook 97,2k,XP have similar setup options to 2003 Regards, Andrew Curtis -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2004 8:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Far as I know, that's the way it works in Outlook too. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:03 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Hello all This is way OT so any replies please send them to d.dick at uws.edu.au In Outlook Express it seems to me I can only apply rules to INCOMING MAIL. Is this correct? If I can set up rules for outgoing mail can some one please tell me how? Have a great day Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION If you receive this confidential communication by mistake, please contact the sender immediately by return electronic mail. Worsley Alumina Pty Ltd ABN 58 008 905 155 is the manager of the Worsley Joint Venture - Bauxite/Alumina Operation. Liability and responsibility of the Joint Venturers is several in accordance with the following schedule of participating interests: Billiton Aluminium (RAA) Pty Ltd 56 percent, Billiton Aluminium (Worsley) Pty Ltd 30 percent, Japan Alumina Associates (Australia) Pty Ltd 10 percent, Sojitz Alumina Pty Ltd 4 percent. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 17 19:29:15 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:29:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: Have you ever tried it on outgoing? I can set up a rule, but I can't get it to run on anything but the inbox. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Curtis, Andrew (WAPL) [mailto:andrew.curtis at wapl.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Outlook 2003: Tools->rules and alerts New Rule Start from Blank rule Check messages when they arrive OR check messages after sending is available. Outlook express only does incoming Outlook 97,2k,XP have similar setup options to 2003 Regards, Andrew Curtis -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2004 8:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Far as I know, that's the way it works in Outlook too. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:03 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Hello all This is way OT so any replies please send them to d.dick at uws.edu.au In Outlook Express it seems to me I can only apply rules to INCOMING MAIL. Is this correct? If I can set up rules for outgoing mail can some one please tell me how? Have a great day Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION If you receive this confidential communication by mistake, please contact the sender immediately by return electronic mail. Worsley Alumina Pty Ltd ABN 58 008 905 155 is the manager of the Worsley Joint Venture - Bauxite/Alumina Operation. Liability and responsibility of the Joint Venturers is several in accordance with the following schedule of participating interests: Billiton Aluminium (RAA) Pty Ltd 56 percent, Billiton Aluminium (Worsley) Pty Ltd 30 percent, Japan Alumina Associates (Australia) Pty Ltd 10 percent, Sojitz Alumina Pty Ltd 4 percent. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From blansett at holly.colostate.edu Tue Aug 17 19:25:02 2004 From: blansett at holly.colostate.edu (Catherine Blansett) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:25:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BC@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <003401c484b9$cde26900$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> The application is in 97. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:24 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > Just out of curiousity, what version is the application in? > > I never used 2.0, but as many listers have posted, it's rock solid. 95 was > horribly flaky, but 97 is as solid as it gets. I don't think they've > improved on 97's performance at all (at least I haven't heard of any > performance increases). > > Sounds like there is a different reason to push an upgrade, other then this > Access App. > > In fact, Access applications are one of the largest tasks involved in an > upgrade. Our company still uses Office 97 on all of it's 150+ work > stations. There are newer versions of Outlook on some machines, but that's > it. We do plan on eventually upgrading to a newer version of Office, when > the budget allows. Two issues we will be concerned with, at that time, is > getting it installed network wide, and ensuring all of our .mdb's are > working. There are not many 'coded' .mdb's on the network, mostly > querries/reports. 95% of the stuff I have done either have VB or ASP front > ends, so an upgrade won't affect them. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Catherine > Blansett > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:05 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > Hi, > > I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to > make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional > database program for her non-profit agency (front-end and back-end). She is > receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it > will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no > reason to do this. > > Is there any reason to move? > > Thanks > > Catherine > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 17 19:39:01 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:39:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules References: Message-ID: <011a01c484bb$c1a36c00$4a619a89@uwsm009469> Hi Charlotte Incoming no problem (That's what it defaults to and you can't edit it) Outgoing - No Can Do I have had some replies that say it can't be done in OExpress Many thanks Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:29 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > Have you ever tried it on outgoing? I can set up a rule, but I can't > get it to run on anything but the inbox. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Curtis, Andrew (WAPL) [mailto:andrew.curtis at wapl.com.au] > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > Outlook 2003: > Tools->rules and alerts > New Rule > Start from Blank rule > Check messages when they arrive OR check messages after sending is > available. > > Outlook express only does incoming > Outlook 97,2k,XP have similar setup options to 2003 > > Regards, > > Andrew Curtis > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2004 8:10 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > Far as I know, that's the way it works in Outlook too. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:03 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > Hello all > > This is way OT so any replies please send them to d.dick at uws.edu.au > > In Outlook Express it seems to me I can only apply rules to INCOMING > MAIL. Is this correct? If I can set up rules for outgoing mail can some > one please tell me how? > > Have a great day > > Darren > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION > If you receive this confidential communication by mistake, please > contact the sender immediately by return electronic mail. Worsley > Alumina Pty Ltd ABN 58 008 905 155 is the manager of the Worsley Joint > Venture - Bauxite/Alumina Operation. Liability and responsibility of the > Joint Venturers is several in accordance with the following schedule of > participating interests: Billiton Aluminium (RAA) Pty Ltd 56 percent, > Billiton Aluminium (Worsley) Pty Ltd 30 percent, Japan Alumina > Associates (Australia) Pty Ltd 10 percent, Sojitz Alumina Pty Ltd 4 > percent. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Aug 17 20:04:19 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:04:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] MS Tool to block WinXP SP2 update References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BC@main2.marlow.com> <003401c484b9$cde26900$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> Message-ID: <4122AB13.9010008@shaw.ca> For those that need it. There is a network domain version somewhere too. This tool sets a registry key to block WinXP SP2 for 4 months http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=8BCE6BBA-EA5D-4425-89C1-C1CB1CCD463C&displaylang=en -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From John.Fejsa at hunter.health.nsw.gov.au Tue Aug 17 20:10:38 2004 From: John.Fejsa at hunter.health.nsw.gov.au (John Fejsa) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:10:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] EXCEL 2002: How do I user/simulate a Timer event in Excel form Message-ID: Hi Everyone I have a very long import procedure that's executed from a menu option. I would like to open an "Import" message form and animate a file flying from one side of the form (one folder) to the other side (another folder) until the import is completed. I can easily do it with other applications but find very hard to do with Excel forms, for example when I use Microsoft Access, I use a Timer event and move the file fractionally every few seconds to simulate the movement. However, Excel forms do not appear to have Timer events like Access or VB. I tried to simulate a time event with Excel form but without success; can anyone help? I tried various methods with Excel but none worked. "Application.OnTime" looks promising but it does not work for me. Below is one method I used to test the procedure (while testing I just tried to show one image and hide another). Rather then having " BlinkMover" procedure executing every second as expected, the procedure acually executes only once (only when the calling "OpenSession" procedure is finished; defeats the reason for using the timer...) Any help would be greatly appreciated. Global variable =========== Public fBlinkMover As Boolean 'used with OPSES form to indicate whether to blink Public dTime 'Used to set time when to fire BlinkMover Procedure Procedures ========= Public Sub OpenSession() strFileToOpen = Application.GetOpenFilename("Workbook (*.xls), *.xls", , "Open your existing AIP session") If strFileToOpen <> False Then 'BLINKING procedure start 'START Blinking fBlinkMover = True 'Start BLINKING OPSES.Show 'Opne OPSES form - this form only has two images at the moment (imgPic1 and imgPic2 DoEvents dTime = Now + TimeValue("00:00:01") 'Set time to one second from now Application.OnTime dTime, "BlinkMover" 'Instruct the application to run "BlinkMover" procedure one second from now ...Do other work here... Workbooks.Open Filename:=strFileToOpen Sheets("Original_data").Select *Deleted code to make the procedure shorter for this email *Etc, etc, etc... 'STOP Blinking fBlinkMover = False 'Stop BLINKING - this will also stop BlinkMover procedure calling itself OPSES.Hide 'Hide OPSES form 'BLINKING procedure stop Sheets("Results").Select MsgBox ("AIP session has now been opened") Else 'User did not open End If End Sub Public Sub BlinkMover() If fBlinkMover Then 'Only execute if fBlinkMover is set to TRUE opses!imgPic1.Visible = Not opses!imgPic2.Visible 'Reverse visiblitiy (Show/Hide) opses!imgPic2.Visible = Not opses!imgPic1.Visible 'Reverse visiblitiy (Show/Hide) opses.Repaint DoEvents dTime = Now + TimeValue("00:00:01") 'Add another second to dTime Application.OnTime dTime, "BlinkMover" 'Call BlinkMover procedure again in one second End If End Sub Thanks for your suggestions. John Fejsa Senior Systems Analyst/Computer Programmer Hunter Population Health Locked Bag 10, WALLSEND NSW 2287 Phone: (02) 4924 6336 Fax: (02) 4924 6209 john.fejsa at hunter.health.nsw.gov.au www.hcha.org.au The doors we open and close each day decide the lives we live. From mcaro at bigpond.net.au Tue Aug 17 21:12:46 2004 From: mcaro at bigpond.net.au (Martin Caro) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 12:12:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Using OutputTo Message-ID: <004a01c484c8$dad9d0d0$0100000a@mitmaster> Hi Folks Just having some syntax issues with applying a filter to the query I'm using in the following: stDocName = "qryLocations" FilePath = "C:\temp\LocationReport.XLS" ExportFilter = Me.Filter DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputQuery, stDocName, acFormatXLS, FilePath, True I need to apply a filter string which I have in a global variable ExportFilter - I've tried setting the query filter property and inserting the filter into the DoCmd line but without success so far. Any suggestions? Martin From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Aug 17 21:41:36 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658CD@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <20040818024136.89958.qmail@web20429.mail.yahoo.com> I'll try removing the /A in the morning. I am at home at the moment. I have the rights to run it. Yep, I ran a test on the package from the package window and from within the package itself. Both times it ran successfully with the changes showing in the table in question. Thanks. I'll let you know what happened. Brett Barabash wrote: You can omit the /A if you aren't passing in parameter values. Are there any other messages given? Depending on your package transaction setup, it may rollback the works if it doesn't succeed on any one of the steps. Are you sure that this package is working properly (i.e. have you tested it from the DTS package designer?) Can you test it from a command prompt on the server? Query Analyzer? And the most important one of all. Make sure that the account running the stored procedure has proper access rights: - In Enterprise Manager, expand the Management folder - Right click on the SQL Server Agent Properties - Check the Non-SysAdmin job step proxy account section. - If it is unchecked, then only SysAdmins can use xp_cmdshell. - If it is checked, then ensure that the Proxy Account is pointing to an account with SysAdmin rights. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package --------------------------------------------------------------- OK, I got this to run successfully but it is not actually updating my records. When I take out the NO_OUTPUT it actually says 42 records affected. But when I look in the table, they are not chaged. This is my command... EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S "SQLSVR1" /E /N "TestPackage" /A ', NO_OUTPUT Can you see anything wrong? Brett Barabash wrote: Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N " Name>" /A = ', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. 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This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Aug 17 21:43:55 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:43:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] RE: Pass Through to DTS package In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040818024355.90228.qmail@web20429.mail.yahoo.com> Phil I felt so stupid after I sent that mail because I noticed that it was a path and command parameters. Sorry. I will try this method as well. I will have to get the path from the data admin. Phil Jewett wrote:To clarify, I have always kept my DTS packages as files, not as database objects - thus the odd syntax. So my file in the below example is 'c:\mydts\DTS_mypackage.dts'. Note that the path/filename must always be from the SQL Server's point of view. But I must add that I never liked using DTS, as it is so inherently obscure, from design through execution. Nowadays I bulk insert if there is a whole lot of records to get the records into the database, and then use regular insert/update stored procedures to transform the data. You can use functions in SQL 2000, and thus get pretty fancy with data massaging. Phil Jewett >Is mydts a folder? Phil Jewett wrote:I've always run my DTS packages by putting the command in a stored procedure and running that. But I imagine you could put the command line directly in the pass-through query; e.g. exec master.dbo.xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /Fc:\mydts\DTS_mypackage.dts /NDTS_mypackage' >Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! From Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com Wed Aug 18 01:46:58 2004 From: Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com (Foote, Chris) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 07:46:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <97CF276BD8C6D4119C4B00508BB18DE709E0C2A2@ntscxch1.int.rdel.co.uk> Brilliant Drew! Made my day! Chris Foote (UK) > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 9:43 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned > Clippy on. You're > not going to believe this: > > http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg > > Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! > > Drew From kens.programming at verizon.net Wed Aug 18 02:37:54 2004 From: kens.programming at verizon.net (Ken Stoker) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:37:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Query the Reports Container in an ADP Message-ID: <20040818073616.DVKW28868.out004.verizon.net@enterprise> Can anyone tell me how to query the reports container in an ADP? Or is it even possible? I found a piece of code called DaoDbFromAdoCon at the following site http://www.trigeminal.com/lang/1033/codes.asp?ItemID=1 but am not having much success with it at the moment. If someone has a better approach or knows better how to use this function, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thanks Ken From viner at eunet.yu Wed Aug 18 03:33:59 2004 From: viner at eunet.yu (Ervin Brindza) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:33:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Comma Decimal separator in UPDATE query Message-ID: <001601c484fe$3abf6d40$0100a8c0@razvoj> Hi, I have a comma decimal separator and it isn't work in Update query. I want to open the Products form from "Order Details"(subform), modify the price, and get that new price on the subform. How can I force the Update query to accept it? My query looks like: DoCmd.RunSQL "Update tblOrderDetail set price=" & NewPrice & " where OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product Many thanks in advance Ervin From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed Aug 18 03:51:55 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:51:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <003401c484b9$cde26900$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> Message-ID: <000001c48500$9d595c70$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Then resist all entreaties and stay there. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Catherine Blansett > Sent: 18 August 2004 01:25 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > The application is in 97. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:24 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > > Just out of curiousity, what version is the application in? > > > > I never used 2.0, but as many listers have posted, it's > rock solid. > > 95 > was > > horribly flaky, but 97 is as solid as it gets. I don't > think they've > > improved on 97's performance at all (at least I haven't > heard of any > > performance increases). > > > > Sounds like there is a different reason to push an upgrade, > other then > this > > Access App. > > > > In fact, Access applications are one of the largest tasks > involved in > > an upgrade. Our company still uses Office 97 on all of > it's 150+ work > > stations. There are newer versions of Outlook on some machines, but > that's > > it. We do plan on eventually upgrading to a newer version > of Office, > > when the budget allows. Two issues we will be concerned > with, at that > > time, is getting it installed network wide, and ensuring all of our > > .mdb's are working. There are not many 'coded' .mdb's on > the network, > > mostly querries/reports. 95% of the stuff I have done > either have VB > > or ASP > front > > ends, so an upgrade won't affect them. > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Catherine > > Blansett > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:05 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I > just wanted > > to make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully > > functional database program for her non-profit agency > (front-end and > > back-end). She > is > > receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of > ACCESS so that > > it will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her > > there is no reason to do this. > > > > Is there any reason to move? > > > > Thanks > > > > Catherine > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed Aug 18 03:51:55 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:51:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000101c48500$9d937f40$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> ROTFL. Brilliant Drew (sorry JC). -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 17 August 2004 21:43 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned > Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: > > http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg > > Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:04 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > >Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from > >Access > 2. > > Badmouthing Clippy will make you no friends! > > ;-) > > JWC > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > Ooh you forgot one: > 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. > > We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then > we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). > It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes > the critical bugs introduced with each new version. > > And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as > well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit > library upgrades that tend to break office applications). > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Francisco H Tapia > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: > > >Hi Catherine > > > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the > short answer > > >is No. > > > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > > > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: > > 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign > 2) You're running Ms Access 95 > 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your > software uses Activation Keys. > 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. > 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: > You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. > > I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade > > -- > -Francisco > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- > ---------------------------------------- > The information in this email may contain confidential > information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of > the intended > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended > recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, or the taking > of any action in regard to the content of this email is > strictly prohibited. If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please > notify the sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information > is/are prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and > is/are required to > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the > individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with > authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been > scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this > message and addition of this footer is performed by > SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus > detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From viner at eunet.yu Wed Aug 18 04:01:07 2004 From: viner at eunet.yu (Ervin Brindza) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:01:07 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Comma Decimal separator in UPDATE query References: <001601c484fe$3abf6d40$0100a8c0@razvoj> Message-ID: <000e01c48501$efc2d080$0100a8c0@razvoj> Solved with(the Price have 2 decmial places): DoCmd.RunSQL "Update tblOrderDetail set price=" & (NewPrice*100) & " where OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product DoCmd.RunSQL "Update tblOrderDetail set price=Price/100 where OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product Ervin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ervin Brindza" To: Sent: 18 August, 2004 10:33 AM Subject: [AccessD] Comma Decimal separator in UPDATE query > Hi, > I have a comma decimal separator and it isn't work in Update query. I want to open the Products form from "Order Details"(subform), modify the price, and get that new price on the subform. How can I force the Update query to accept it? > My query looks like: > DoCmd.RunSQL "Update tblOrderDetail set price=" & NewPrice & " where OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product > Many thanks in advance > Ervin > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 04:07:01 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:07:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Comma Decimal separator in UPDATE query In-Reply-To: <001601c484fe$3abf6d40$0100a8c0@razvoj> References: <001601c484fe$3abf6d40$0100a8c0@razvoj> Message-ID: <1808552387.20040818110701@cactus.dk> Hi Ervin > I have a comma decimal separator and it isn't work in Update query. I want to open the Products form from "Order Details"(subform), modify the price, and get that new price on the subform. How can > I force the Update query to accept it? > My query looks like: > > DoCmd.RunSQL "Update tblOrderDetail set price=" & NewPrice & " where OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product You have two options. Either create a NewPrice100 = Int(NewPrice * 100) Then adjust the SQL: "Update tblOrderDetail set price=" & NewPrice100 & "/100 where OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product Or convert to a string: "Update tblOrderDetail set price=" & Str(NewPrice) & " where OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 04:25:22 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:25:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report In-Reply-To: <059a01c4848e$fae5e790$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <054801c48484$9f9247d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <12940412560.20040817202112@cactus.dk> <056f01c48488$9f2901e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <059a01c4848e$fae5e790$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <1449653901.20040818112522@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky > Well, that worked - copying the sql text into the _Open event of the > sub-reports and then adding the 'HAVING' clauses (these are summation > queries) then appending the ORDER BY clause. > But I'm still curious why I can;'t seem to set the filter on a sub-report. > Is this the case? And is there a workaround? I don't know, but have in mind that the subform is "opened twice" when you open the main form. > Finally, when you modify the query which is the record source of the > sub-report by adding parameters (using querydef, I assume?), do you have to > unset the parameters the next time you run the report if the user has not > selected any filtering? I guess so, but a little testing should reveal that quite quickly ... If you used the Master and Link fields you wouldn't have this trouble. A master field can be an unbound textbox. /gustav >> Mostly because I've always done it the other way and never learned how to >> apply the filters directly to the queries. I have set the recordsource in a >> report by modifying the SQL statement that represents the query. Guess I'll >> try that. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rocky >> >> > Why don't you apply the filter to the queries which drive the >> > subreports? From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 04:28:04 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:28:04 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Comma Decimal separator in UPDATE query In-Reply-To: <000e01c48501$efc2d080$0100a8c0@razvoj> References: <001601c484fe$3abf6d40$0100a8c0@razvoj> <000e01c48501$efc2d080$0100a8c0@razvoj> Message-ID: <709815533.20040818112804@cactus.dk> Hi Ervin OK ... that would be the third and last option! /gustav > Solved with(the Price have 2 decmial places): > DoCmd.RunSQL "Update tblOrderDetail set price=" & (NewPrice*100) & " where > OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product > DoCmd.RunSQL "Update tblOrderDetail set price=Price/100 where OrderNo=" & > Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 04:33:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:33:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC9@DISABILITYINS01> References: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC9@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <7510143415.20040818113332@cactus.dk> Hi John The preferred way is to surround non-numerics by double quotes: ..,"27 Heath Way, #27",456,"Colby, John",.. /gustav > Is there some "break" character that I can place in front of or around a > comma to tell Access' wizard that links comma delimited files that a comma > is not a field separator but a real data in the data? > IOW > 27 Heath Way, #27 turns into two fields when imported (skewing the data) > where I really want to pull the data into a single field. > I can replace the comma with a tab but would like to solve this problem for > the future. From jimdettman at earthlink.net Wed Aug 18 05:02:31 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 06:02:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) In-Reply-To: <001501c484b2$630f2ac0$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: Dan, Basically you close the file for a specific network connection. How you do that depends on the OS that your using. If using Win9x as a 'server', there is no easy way that's built in. There were some utilities floating around to do it, but I'm not sure if they are around anymore. For NT4/Win2000 you do it through Computer Management under admin tools, and Novell through the console. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 7:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 18 06:55:32 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 07:55:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Message-ID: Yes. Just use the "Other" option for the delimiter, and type in the tilde character. And, although Gustav is correct about the double quotes, my data included 3-D model x-y-z coordinate locations denoted in feet & inches...thus my decision to go with the tilde. There is sometimes a method to my madness;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Ohh I like that. Can the link table wizard accept that? JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data I had data that had quotation marks (single and double), commas, preformatted tabs as well as preformatted multiple spaces...I ended up using the tilde character (~) as my delimiter...so far so good;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Is there some "break" character that I can place in front of or around a comma to tell Access' wizard that links comma delimited files that a comma is not a field separator but a real data in the data? IOW 27 Heath Way, #27 turns into two fields when imported (skewing the data) where I really want to pull the data into a single field. I can replace the comma with a tab but would like to solve this problem for the future. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N "" /A =', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 08:09:19 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:09:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A54@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> List, We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: O 100 - 90 V 89 - 80 G 79- 70 I 69 - 60 U Below 60 There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding rating). Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? I hope it's clear what we're trying to accomplish. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan T 914.631.1611 x2309 *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 18 08:24:17 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:24:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A54@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <20040818132418.QKZI1756.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Have you tried a 1 to 10 base? Susan H. Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? I hope it's clear what we're trying to accomplish. From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 18 08:32:00 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:32:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net Message-ID: I'm just about finished converting an Access97 project to ASP.Net with MYSQL backend. I must say that this is pretty cool stuff. Questions: 1)Is the best tool for reports for this situation, Crystal Reports and their web server control? What other options do I have? 2)I haven't implemented any security yet. Should I use Windows authentication or create login pages or use some other method? 3)I'm currently using IIS locally with WinXP Pro, any gotcha's moving the application to my Win2003 Server? 4)I'm using MySQL 4 on the Win2003 Server machine, what problems might I have when moving it to Linux? I have an experienced Linux/Unix administrator to help me, but he is new to MySQL. Here is what my setup will be... Linux for MySQL Windows Server 2003 for IIS (already setup) Each user will have Win2000 or WinXP Pro with IE 6. Scott Marcus From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 08:30:18 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:30:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A58@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> How would I relate that to our current groupings? Would 1 be any grade below 60 (<=59)? Or do you mean apply 1 for <10, 2 for <20, etc.? I can run my samples through this scale if you could explain. Thanks, Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Have you tried a 1 to 10 base? Susan H. Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? I hope it's clear what we're trying to accomplish. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From prodevmg at yahoo.com Wed Aug 18 08:32:24 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 06:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658CD@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <20040818133224.21426.qmail@web20427.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Brett, That did it!!!! You da man. Brett Barabash wrote: You can omit the /A if you aren't passing in parameter values. Are there any other messages given? Depending on your package transaction setup, it may rollback the works if it doesn't succeed on any one of the steps. Are you sure that this package is working properly (i.e. have you tested it from the DTS package designer?) Can you test it from a command prompt on the server? Query Analyzer? And the most important one of all. Make sure that the account running the stored procedure has proper access rights: - In Enterprise Manager, expand the Management folder - Right click on the SQL Server Agent Properties - Check the Non-SysAdmin job step proxy account section. - If it is unchecked, then only SysAdmins can use xp_cmdshell. - If it is checked, then ensure that the Proxy Account is pointing to an account with SysAdmin rights. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package --------------------------------------------------------------- OK, I got this to run successfully but it is not actually updating my records. When I take out the NO_OUTPUT it actually says 42 records affected. But when I look in the table, they are not chaged. This is my command... EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S "SQLSVR1" /E /N "TestPackage" /A ', NO_OUTPUT Can you see anything wrong? Brett Barabash wrote: Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N " Name>" /A = ', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 18 08:36:49 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:36:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A58@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <20040818133649.QZIT1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Jim, I don't think you can actually equate them, but it seems like the original is based on the 1 to 100 scale, so 1 to 10 ought to be easier to tweak than 1 to 5. That was my only thinking. But yes, 1 could equate to 0 to 10, 2 to 11 to 20, and so on. It's early, only a few cups of coffee and math is NOT my area, but I don't so how you can actually replace one with the other without including decimal values -- 1 to 10 or 1 to 5 -- neither's going to work out to what you're doing now -- but I would "think" that 1 to 10 would get you closer. I've probably misunderstood the problem and misspoken, but I don't think you can substitute either for what you're doing now. I would think you'd have to revamp the system and simply "change over." If that's the case, than 1 to 5 is certainly easier unless you really need the graduated levels for more precise evaluations. Susan H. How would I relate that to our current groupings? Would 1 be any grade below 60 (<=59)? Or do you mean apply 1 for <10, 2 for <20, etc.? I can run my samples through this scale if you could explain. Thanks, Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Have you tried a 1 to 10 base? Susan H. Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? I hope it's clear what we're trying to accomplish. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 08:42:27 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:42:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A59@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> I think you're correct. I did try the 1-10 scenario with about the same results as 1-5. And it seems we are comparing apples to oranges as a range of numbers does not equate to a single digit (at least where averages are concerned). If anyone can tell me otherwise please do but I had more or less come to the same conclusion as Susan but hoping there might something to get the numbers in line. Thanks Susan. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Jim, I don't think you can actually equate them, but it seems like the original is based on the 1 to 100 scale, so 1 to 10 ought to be easier to tweak than 1 to 5. That was my only thinking. But yes, 1 could equate to 0 to 10, 2 to 11 to 20, and so on. It's early, only a few cups of coffee and math is NOT my area, but I don't so how you can actually replace one with the other without including decimal values -- 1 to 10 or 1 to 5 -- neither's going to work out to what you're doing now -- but I would "think" that 1 to 10 would get you closer. I've probably misunderstood the problem and misspoken, but I don't think you can substitute either for what you're doing now. I would think you'd have to revamp the system and simply "change over." If that's the case, than 1 to 5 is certainly easier unless you really need the graduated levels for more precise evaluations. Susan H. How would I relate that to our current groupings? Would 1 be any grade below 60 (<=59)? Or do you mean apply 1 for <10, 2 for <20, etc.? I can run my samples through this scale if you could explain. Thanks, Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Have you tried a 1 to 10 base? Susan H. Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? I hope it's clear what we're trying to accomplish. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 08:45:19 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:45:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A5A@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Scott, I've downloaded a tool called LogiXML. They offer a free single user license so you can download it and try it. I hadn't tried it yet but your post sort of pushed me into it (I'm not really a CR fan so I'm always looking for something else). I was able to very quickly get a simple report pulled from our SQL DB (in minutes actually) and published to my local web. It's worth a look I think. HTH, Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net I'm just about finished converting an Access97 project to ASP.Net with MYSQL backend. I must say that this is pretty cool stuff. Questions: 1)Is the best tool for reports for this situation, Crystal Reports and their web server control? What other options do I have? 2)I haven't implemented any security yet. Should I use Windows authentication or create login pages or use some other method? 3)I'm currently using IIS locally with WinXP Pro, any gotcha's moving the application to my Win2003 Server? 4)I'm using MySQL 4 on the Win2003 Server machine, what problems might I have when moving it to Linux? I have an experienced Linux/Unix administrator to help me, but he is new to MySQL. Here is what my setup will be... Linux for MySQL Windows Server 2003 for IIS (already setup) Each user will have Win2000 or WinXP Pro with IE 6. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 08:53:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:53:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A54@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> References: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A54@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <12025723238.20040818155312@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 09:12:33 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:12:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A5B@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 18 09:17:09 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:17:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net Message-ID: Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net Scott, I've downloaded a tool called LogiXML. They offer a free single user license so you can download it and try it. I hadn't tried it yet but your post sort of pushed me into it (I'm not really a CR fan so I'm always looking for something else). I was able to very quickly get a simple report pulled from our SQL DB (in minutes actually) and published to my local web. It's worth a look I think. HTH, Jim DeMarco From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Wed Aug 18 09:19:48 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:19:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: Yes It works for outgoing - I have several folders with sent messages directed to it. Both Outlook 2000 and 2003 ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 08:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > Have you ever tried it on outgoing? I can set up a rule, but > I can't get it to run on anything but the inbox. > > Charlotte Foust > > From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 09:24:16 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:24:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A5B@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> References: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A5B@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <12927587719.20040818162416@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Oh, it was just an example; I didn't know 4.7 was a magic number. If so, adjust to: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.3) Further, the word "probably" is difficult to handle - you will need exact boundaries to set up formulas. /gustav > Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. > This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 > (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). > I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. > Thanks, > Jim D. --- > Isn't this a normal rounding issue? > If you calculate the final grading as: > FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) > you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. > /gustav >> We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: >> O 100 - 90 >> V 89 - 80 >> G 79- 70 >> I 69 - 60 >> U Below 60 >> There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same >> average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding >> rating). >> Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 18 09:40:18 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:40:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 10:09:16 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:09:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A61@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> There are only 13 categories not 20. 89.9 is the average on the 100 scale. When I convert each grade to a 1-5 value the average is 4.7. Make sense? Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From tim at irwingreenhouses.com Wed Aug 18 10:13:20 2004 From: tim at irwingreenhouses.com (Tim Thiessen) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:13:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A61@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <000e01c48535$e6535b80$7800a8c0@timt> Why not use 0-5 scale? In other words: O 5 - 4 V 4 - 3 G 3 - 2 I 2 - 1 U Below 1 Tim T. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? There are only 13 categories not 20. 89.9 is the average on the 100 scale. When I convert each grade to a 1-5 value the average is 4.7. Make sense? Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 10:21:47 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:21:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A63@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Here are two examples of 4.7 average on a 1-5 scale. Both have different outcomes on a 100 scale. Averages are on the bottom row. Q 1 92 5 90 5 Q 2 90 5 93.5 5 Q 3 95 5 93 5 Q 4 92 5 97.5 5 Q 5 95 5 85 4 Q 6 90 5 89.5 4 Q 7 95 5 85.5 4 Q 8 90 5 98.5 5 Q 9 89 4 87.5 4 Q 10 93.5 5 93 5 Q 11 80 4 95 5 Q 12 82 4 91 5 Q 13 85 4 90 5 Avg 89.9 4.7 91.5 4.7 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? There are only 13 categories not 20. 89.9 is the average on the 100 scale. When I convert each grade to a 1-5 value the average is 4.7. Make sense? Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 10:29:54 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:29:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A64@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> They'd like to get rid of ranges and use a single value so as to elimate the "what differentiates an 84 from an 89" question on grading. I was just thinging about using the letter grades and doing a count and averaging that though. I wonder... Thanks Tim. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tim Thiessen Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Why not use 0-5 scale? In other words: O 5 - 4 V 4 - 3 G 3 - 2 I 2 - 1 U Below 1 Tim T. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? There are only 13 categories not 20. 89.9 is the average on the 100 scale. When I convert each grade to a 1-5 value the average is 4.7. Make sense? Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 18 10:36:40 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:36:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: So what did you set it up on, the Outbox? My problem is that I'm logged on to several machines at once, and one of them is sending emails as part of a test, but the sent items are showing up on my own machine where I actually have Outlook running. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Yes It works for outgoing - I have several folders with sent messages directed to it. Both Outlook 2000 and 2003 ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 08:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > Have you ever tried it on outgoing? I can set up a rule, but > I can't get it to run on anything but the inbox. > > Charlotte Foust > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 18 10:39:32 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:39:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: Yes, but the scale of 1-5 is 1/20 of the scale of 1-100. It does not matter how many scores you have. Here is the proof... (a+b+c+...+m)/13 = current average. You must divide this by 20 to get the correct scale. Now... If you need to convert each score first, then you have the following: (a/20+b/20+c/20+...+m/20)/13 = ((a+b+c+...+m)/20)/13 then you have, ((a+b+c+...+m)/20)/13 = (a+b+c+...+m)*(1/20)*(1/13) which comes to the following... (a+b+c+...+m)*(1/20)*(1/13) = (a+b+c+...+m)*(1/13)*(1/20) followed by... (a+b+c+...+m)*(1/13)*(1/20) = ((a+b+c+...+m)/13)/20 since (a+b+c+...+m)/13 = the current average, ((a+b+c+...+m)/13)/20 = (the current average / 20) So you see, you are dividing by 20 also... Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? There are only 13 categories not 20. 89.9 is the average on the 100 scale. When I convert each grade to a 1-5 value the average is 4.7. Make sense? Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 10:41:42 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:41:42 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A63@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> References: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A63@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <7332233639.20040818174142@cactus.dk> Hi Jim That's a rounding issue. To avoid that you would need to use ratings like 4.3, 3.2, 3.9 etc. Or round 89.9 to 90 and 91.5 to 91. A simplified system generates a simplified output. /gustav > Here are two examples of 4.7 average on a 1-5 scale. Both have different outcomes on a 100 scale. Averages are on the bottom row. > Q 1 92 5 90 5 > Q 2 90 5 93.5 5 > Q 3 95 5 93 5 > Q 4 92 5 97.5 5 > Q 5 95 5 85 4 > Q 6 90 5 89.5 4 > Q 7 95 5 85.5 4 > Q 8 90 5 98.5 5 > Q 9 89 4 87.5 4 > Q 10 93.5 5 93 5 > Q 11 80 4 95 5 > Q 12 82 4 91 5 > Q 13 85 4 90 5 > Avg 89.9 4.7 91.5 4.7 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? > There are only 13 categories not 20. 89.9 is the average on the 100 scale. When I convert each grade to a 1-5 value the average is 4.7. Make sense? > Jim D. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? > How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? > Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. > This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 > (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). > I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. > Thanks, > Jim D. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? > Hi Jim > Isn't this a normal rounding issue? > If you calculate the final grading as: > FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) > you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. > /gustav >> We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: >> O 100 - 90 >> V 89 - 80 >> G 79- 70 >> I 69 - 60 >> U Below 60 >> There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same >> average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding >> rating). >> Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 18 10:44:09 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:44:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: But a 92 = 4.6 not 5, otherwise you will have rounding error. You cannot ignore this if you want the results to be accurate. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Here are two examples of 4.7 average on a 1-5 scale. Both have different outcomes on a 100 scale. Averages are on the bottom row. Q 1 92 5 90 5 Q 2 90 5 93.5 5 Q 3 95 5 93 5 Q 4 92 5 97.5 5 Q 5 95 5 85 4 Q 6 90 5 89.5 4 Q 7 95 5 85.5 4 Q 8 90 5 98.5 5 Q 9 89 4 87.5 4 Q 10 93.5 5 93 5 Q 11 80 4 95 5 Q 12 82 4 91 5 Q 13 85 4 90 5 Avg 89.9 4.7 91.5 4.7 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? There are only 13 categories not 20. 89.9 is the average on the 100 scale. When I convert each grade to a 1-5 value the average is 4.7. Make sense? Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 18 10:55:19 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:55:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Query the Reports Container in an ADP Message-ID: I'm not sure what you want to do. Do you just want a list of the reports in the container or are you trying to manipulate them somehow? If you just want a list, loop through CurrentProject.AllReports(index).Name. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Ken Stoker [mailto:kens.programming at verizon.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:38 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Query the Reports Container in an ADP Can anyone tell me how to query the reports container in an ADP? Or is it even possible? I found a piece of code called DaoDbFromAdoCon at the following site http://www.trigeminal.com/lang/1033/codes.asp?ItemID=1 but am not having much success with it at the moment. If someone has a better approach or knows better how to use this function, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thanks Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 18 11:00:48 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:00:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2C7@main2.marlow.com> LOL. I've seen that pic, where the word doc says 'Goodbye World ...' and Clippy is there saying 'Looks like you're going to commit suicide, can I help with the note'... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? ROTFLMAO. You left out "commit suicide" JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 5:09 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Thanks....just felt like goofing around a bit. I couldn't stop laughing while making that image though..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Priceless. ;) Susan H. I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 18 11:06:39 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:06:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be dupl icated) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2C8@main2.marlow.com> Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed Aug 18 11:07:51 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:07:51 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c4853d$85488c40$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> That's interesting Patricia. How did you do it? I've never had any joy trying to do this. I wanted emails that I generate from within Access, and which have an identifiable Subject, moved to a sub-folder of Sent Items after sending. Have you done anything like that? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) > Sent: 18 August 2004 15:20 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > Yes It works for outgoing - I have several folders with sent > messages directed to it. Both Outlook 2000 and 2003 > > ****************************************************************** > *Patricia O'Connor > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst > *OTDA - BDMA > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > ****************************************************************** > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Charlotte Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 08:29 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > > Have you ever tried it on outgoing? I can set up a rule, but > > I can't get it to run on anything but the inbox. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 18 11:10:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:10:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2CA@main2.marlow.com> I would definitely leave it be. 97 is rock solid, and will perform perfectly on any 'upgraded' system. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Catherine Blansett Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 7:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? The application is in 97. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:24 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > Just out of curiousity, what version is the application in? > > I never used 2.0, but as many listers have posted, it's rock solid. 95 was > horribly flaky, but 97 is as solid as it gets. I don't think they've > improved on 97's performance at all (at least I haven't heard of any > performance increases). > > Sounds like there is a different reason to push an upgrade, other then this > Access App. > > In fact, Access applications are one of the largest tasks involved in an > upgrade. Our company still uses Office 97 on all of it's 150+ work > stations. There are newer versions of Outlook on some machines, but that's > it. We do plan on eventually upgrading to a newer version of Office, when > the budget allows. Two issues we will be concerned with, at that time, is > getting it installed network wide, and ensuring all of our .mdb's are > working. There are not many 'coded' .mdb's on the network, mostly > querries/reports. 95% of the stuff I have done either have VB or ASP front > ends, so an upgrade won't affect them. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Catherine > Blansett > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:05 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > Hi, > > I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to > make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional > database program for her non-profit agency (front-end and back-end). She is > receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it > will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no > reason to do this. > > Is there any reason to move? > > Thanks > > Catherine > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kens.programming at verizon.net Wed Aug 18 11:12:37 2004 From: kens.programming at verizon.net (Ken Stoker) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:12:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Query the Reports Container in an ADP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040818161059.XPDW6722.out002.verizon.net@enterprise> Perfect, Charlotte. That is what I was looking for. As always, a wealth of knowledge. Thanks. Ken -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Query the Reports Container in an ADP I'm not sure what you want to do. Do you just want a list of the reports in the container or are you trying to manipulate them somehow? If you just want a list, loop through CurrentProject.AllReports(index).Name. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Ken Stoker [mailto:kens.programming at verizon.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:38 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Query the Reports Container in an ADP Can anyone tell me how to query the reports container in an ADP? Or is it even possible? I found a piece of code called DaoDbFromAdoCon at the following site http://www.trigeminal.com/lang/1033/codes.asp?ItemID=1 but am not having much success with it at the moment. If someone has a better approach or knows better how to use this function, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thanks Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Wed Aug 18 11:29:02 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 12:29:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: Andy In OUTLOOK 2003 or 2000 Not Express Under TOOLS click RULES AND ALERTs NEW RULE If wizard pops up change from "Start from Template" to "Start from Blank" Will then display under step 1 - Check messages after sending Then on next pop ups select the criteria you want through screens and turn rule on. On of the rules I have looks like the following "Apply this rul after I send the message With Summary Table in subject Move a copy to the SummaryTables folder Except if subject contains 'Decline:' or 'READ:' or 'Accept' Works great ! Because of the way our shop is set up - it will only run when client outlook is running - you may be able to make it a system-wide or server rule if you have the permissions. I have not done this within VB code. ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:08 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > That's interesting Patricia. How did you do it? I've never > had any joy trying to do this. I wanted emails that I > generate from within Access, and which have an identifiable > Subject, moved to a sub-folder of Sent Items after sending. > Have you done anything like that? > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > O'Connor, > > Patricia (OTDA) > > Sent: 18 August 2004 15:20 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > > > > Yes It works for outgoing - I have several folders with > sent messages > > directed to it. Both Outlook 2000 and 2003 > > > > ****************************************************************** > > *Patricia O'Connor > > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA > > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > > ****************************************************************** > From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 18 12:13:31 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 12:13:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2C8@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about this on DBA-Tech). I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to clean it up? JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 18 12:31:45 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:31:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: The directory where the 'ldb' file is created and resided must have read, write and delete rights or the file will not removed when all users have finally exited the program, leaving the MDB file locked. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about this on DBA-Tech). I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to clean it up? JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 12:42:52 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:42:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <639503012.20040818194252@cactus.dk> Hi John If a process is open (running) keeping the file locked, you may use PsKill to terminate that process: http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/pstools.shtml /gustav > This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about > this on DBA-Tech). > I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an > mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't > touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this > from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of > logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to > the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing > the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) > Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps > startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to > clean it up? From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 18 12:59:59 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 12:59:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be dupl icated) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2D0@main2.marlow.com> If they have 'admin' rights on the server, and the workstation is w2k, then they can open computer management on their workstation, then connect to the server with computer management, and do the same thing. However, it sounds like the VB .exe isn't really closing, otherwise, it should kill the connection when it's done. Did you make sure the .exe is truly gone from the Task Manager? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about this on DBA-Tech). I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to clean it up? JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Wed Aug 18 13:27:22 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:27:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: JB, This needs to be fix. It means that the program is terminating abnormally either from the user, by a problem with the PC or network, or because of a programming problem. What ever the cause, it needs to be investigated. Simply deleting the locks is not really a cure. Sooner or later, your going to end up with a corrupt MDB. It's not a rights issue because even if the LDB file gets left behind (which may cause a performance problem when logging in under certain circumstances), the locks still should be getting cleared. I'd hound the "developer" till s/he does something about it. In the meantime, if this is a NT/W2K/WinXP server, try turning off OPLOCKS (Opportunistic Locking). More info is available in the MSKB on Microsoft's web site. I'd also make sure the MDB/LDB is not being virus scanned. Jim Dettman (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about this on DBA-Tech). I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to clean it up? JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From joconnell at indy.rr.com Wed Aug 18 13:29:28 2004 From: joconnell at indy.rr.com (Joseph O'Connell) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:29:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <020a01c48551$60481b40$6701a8c0@joe> Catherine, Another consideration is the software that Microsoft makes available to not-for-profit organizations. Microsoft is the primary financial backer of NPower, which has offices in several cities. The cost is negligible for a not-for-profit to become an NPower member. The benefits of membership include greatly reduced fees for software training at most training facilities (usually $50 per day of training) and FREE software from Microsoft. NPower members are eligible for most Microsoft software at no charge--including operating systems, server software (SQL, Exchange, etc.) and Office. Even if you do not upgrade the Access application at this time, it might be worthwhile to see if your client is eligible to join NPower because of the other benefits. Joe O'Connell > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Catherine > Blansett > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:05 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > Hi, > > I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to > make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional > database program for her non-profit agency (front-end and back-end). She is > receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it > will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no > reason to do this. > > Is there any reason to move? > > Thanks > > Catherine > > -- From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 18 13:50:07 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:50:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: All I can say is that I've tried similar rules in OXP and while they worked if I *ran* them from the wizard, they didn't work automatically even though they were turned on. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Andy In OUTLOOK 2003 or 2000 Not Express Under TOOLS click RULES AND ALERTs NEW RULE If wizard pops up change from "Start from Template" to "Start from Blank" Will then display under step 1 - Check messages after sending Then on next pop ups select the criteria you want through screens and turn rule on. On of the rules I have looks like the following "Apply this rul after I send the message With Summary Table in subject Move a copy to the SummaryTables folder Except if subject contains 'Decline:' or 'READ:' or 'Accept' Works great ! Because of the way our shop is set up - it will only run when client outlook is running - you may be able to make it a system-wide or server rule if you have the permissions. I have not done this within VB code. ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:08 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > That's interesting Patricia. How did you do it? I've never > had any joy trying to do this. I wanted emails that I > generate from within Access, and which have an identifiable > Subject, moved to a sub-folder of Sent Items after sending. > Have you done anything like that? > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > O'Connor, > > Patricia (OTDA) > > Sent: 18 August 2004 15:20 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > > > > Yes It works for outgoing - I have several folders with > sent messages > > directed to it. Both Outlook 2000 and 2003 > > > > ****************************************************************** > > *Patricia O'Connor > > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA > > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > > ****************************************************************** > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 18 14:10:01 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:10:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I did that when I set it all up but a good point I'll check it again. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) Hi John: The directory where the 'ldb' file is created and resided must have read, write and delete rights or the file will not removed when all users have finally exited the program, leaving the MDB file locked. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about this on DBA-Tech). I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to clean it up? JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 18 14:10:01 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:10:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2D0@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Thanks Drew, that would be better than having them log on to the server. When I get them all off of win98 that will be the ticket ;o) And yes, even turned all the workstations off one night while prepping for something else and low and behold there were those pesky open files. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:00 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) If they have 'admin' rights on the server, and the workstation is w2k, then they can open computer management on their workstation, then connect to the server with computer management, and do the same thing. However, it sounds like the VB .exe isn't really closing, otherwise, it should kill the connection when it's done. Did you make sure the .exe is truly gone from the Task Manager? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about this on DBA-Tech). I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to clean it up? JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 18 14:10:02 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:10:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, I agree wholeheartedly. Also another good suggestion on the AV scan - I did make an exclusion for .mdb files when I set the AV up but I could manually check it to make sure. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) JB, This needs to be fix. It means that the program is terminating abnormally either from the user, by a problem with the PC or network, or because of a programming problem. What ever the cause, it needs to be investigated. Simply deleting the locks is not really a cure. Sooner or later, your going to end up with a corrupt MDB. It's not a rights issue because even if the LDB file gets left behind (which may cause a performance problem when logging in under certain circumstances), the locks still should be getting cleared. I'd hound the "developer" till s/he does something about it. In the meantime, if this is a NT/W2K/WinXP server, try turning off OPLOCKS (Opportunistic Locking). More info is available in the MSKB on Microsoft's web site. I'd also make sure the MDB/LDB is not being virus scanned. Jim Dettman (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about this on DBA-Tech). I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to clean it up? JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From blansett at holly.colostate.edu Wed Aug 18 14:16:32 2004 From: blansett at holly.colostate.edu (Catherine Blansett) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:16:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? References: <020a01c48551$60481b40$6701a8c0@joe> Message-ID: <001001c48557$dfefcc20$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> Joe, Thank you for this information. I will make my client aware of this opportunity. As for now, I am going to continue to advise my client to leave things where they are. The responses to my question have confirmed that there is no reason to spend the money to upgrade at this time. Thanks to all for your help. Catherine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph O'Connell" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > Catherine, > > Another consideration is the software that Microsoft makes available to > not-for-profit organizations. Microsoft is the primary financial backer of > NPower, which has offices in several cities. The cost is negligible for a > not-for-profit to become an NPower member. The benefits of membership > include greatly reduced fees for software training at most training > facilities (usually $50 per day of training) and FREE software from > Microsoft. NPower members are eligible for most Microsoft software at no > charge--including operating systems, server software (SQL, Exchange, etc.) > and Office. > > Even if you do not upgrade the Access application at this time, it might be > worthwhile to see if your client is eligible to join NPower because of the > other benefits. > > Joe O'Connell > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Catherine > > Blansett > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:05 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to > > make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional > > database program for her non-profit agency (front-end and back-end). She > is > > receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it > > will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no > > reason to do this. > > > > Is there any reason to move? > > > > Thanks > > > > Catherine > > > > -- > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Aug 18 15:30:11 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:30:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F1CA262@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Wold that be a case of Client-Side Versus Server-Side rules? If your rule tries to move mail into a folder that is not on the Exchange Server but rather in a PST file then it will be a Client-Side rule, in which case Outlook must be running for the rule to take effect. Server-Side rules run on the server, so you PC does not even need to be power up for them to run. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > All I can say is that I've tried similar rules in OXP and while they > worked if I *ran* them from the wizard, they didn't work automatically > even though they were turned on. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) > [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us] > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > Andy > > In OUTLOOK 2003 or 2000 Not Express > > Under TOOLS > click RULES AND ALERTs > NEW RULE > If wizard pops up change from "Start from Template" to "Start from > Blank" > > Will then display under step 1 - Check messages after sending Then on > next pop ups select the criteria you want through screens and turn rule > on. > > On of the rules I have looks like the following > > "Apply this rul after I send the message > With Summary Table in subject > Move a copy to the SummaryTables folder > Except if subject contains 'Decline:' or 'READ:' or 'Accept' > > > Works great ! > Because of the way our shop is set up - it will only run when client > outlook is running - you may be able to make it a system-wide or server > rule if you have the permissions. > > I have not done this within VB code. > > > ****************************************************************** > *Patricia O'Connor > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst > *OTDA - BDMA > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > ****************************************************************** > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:08 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > > That's interesting Patricia. How did you do it? I've never > > had any joy trying to do this. I wanted emails that I > > generate from within Access, and which have an identifiable > > Subject, moved to a sub-folder of Sent Items after sending. > > Have you done anything like that? > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > O'Connor, > > > Patricia (OTDA) > > > Sent: 18 August 2004 15:20 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > > > > > > > Yes It works for outgoing - I have several folders with > > sent messages > > > directed to it. Both Outlook 2000 and 2003 > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > > > *Patricia O'Connor > > > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA > > > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > > > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > > > ****************************************************************** > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 18 15:48:55 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:48:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) In-Reply-To: <639503012.20040818194252@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Thanks for the tip I'll give it a try when I get it downloaded (I'm having connection problems this week and the download keeps getting cut off on me!) John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) Hi John If a process is open (running) keeping the file locked, you may use PsKill to terminate that process: http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/pstools.shtml /gustav > This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about > this on DBA-Tech). > I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an > mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't > touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this > from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of > logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to > the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing > the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) > Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps > startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to > clean it up? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Wed Aug 18 15:56:22 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:56:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: Well Charlotte I don't know how your system is set up but the rule in my example has been running every day for a few months with no problem On the last window - Did you just check TURN RULE ON ? Leave the other blank Have you tried opening outlook xp under administrator. Maybe you need more rights. ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 02:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > All I can say is that I've tried similar rules in OXP and > while they worked if I *ran* them from the wizard, they > didn't work automatically even though they were turned on. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) > [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us] > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > Andy > > In OUTLOOK 2003 or 2000 Not Express > > Under TOOLS > click RULES AND ALERTs > NEW RULE > If wizard pops up change from "Start from Template" to "Start from > Blank" > > Will then display under step 1 - Check messages after sending Then on > next pop ups select the criteria you want through screens and > turn rule > on. > > On of the rules I have looks like the following > > "Apply this rul after I send the message > With Summary Table in subject > Move a copy to the SummaryTables folder > Except if subject contains 'Decline:' or 'READ:' or 'Accept' > > > Works great ! > Because of the way our shop is set up - it will only run when client > outlook is running - you may be able to make it a system-wide > or server > rule if you have the permissions. > > I have not done this within VB code. > > > ****************************************************************** > *Patricia O'Connor > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst > *OTDA - BDMA > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > ****************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 18 15:58:29 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:58:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: Yes I turned the rule on, and I already am an admin on this machine. The rule shows up checked in the list of rules and runs nicely if I run it manually from the rules wizard, but it gets ignored when Outlook is processing the rules automatically. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Well Charlotte I don't know how your system is set up but the rule in my example has been running every day for a few months with no problem On the last window - Did you just check TURN RULE ON ? Leave the other blank Have you tried opening outlook xp under administrator. Maybe you need more rights. ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 02:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > All I can say is that I've tried similar rules in OXP and > while they worked if I *ran* them from the wizard, they > didn't work automatically even though they were turned on. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) > [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us] > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > Andy > > In OUTLOOK 2003 or 2000 Not Express > > Under TOOLS > click RULES AND ALERTs > NEW RULE > If wizard pops up change from "Start from Template" to "Start from > Blank" > > Will then display under step 1 - Check messages after sending Then on > next pop ups select the criteria you want through screens and turn > rule on. > > On of the rules I have looks like the following > > "Apply this rul after I send the message > With Summary Table in subject > Move a copy to the SummaryTables folder > Except if subject contains 'Decline:' or 'READ:' or 'Accept' > > > Works great ! > Because of the way our shop is set up - it will only run when client > outlook is running - you may be able to make it a system-wide or > server rule if you have the permissions. > > I have not done this within VB code. > > > ****************************************************************** > *Patricia O'Connor > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst > *OTDA - BDMA > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > ****************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed Aug 18 17:50:52 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 23:50:52 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c48575$d0a29400$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Likewise, but I'll give it another try. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: 18 August 2004 19:50 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > All I can say is that I've tried similar rules in OXP and > while they worked if I *ran* them from the wizard, they > didn't work automatically even though they were turned on. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) > [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us] > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > Andy > > In OUTLOOK 2003 or 2000 Not Express > > Under TOOLS > click RULES AND ALERTs > NEW RULE > If wizard pops up change from "Start from Template" to > "Start from Blank" > > Will then display under step 1 - Check messages after sending > Then on next pop ups select the criteria you want through > screens and turn rule on. > > On of the rules I have looks like the following > > "Apply this rul after I send the message > With Summary Table in subject > Move a copy to the SummaryTables folder > Except if subject contains 'Decline:' or 'READ:' or 'Accept' > > > Works great ! > Because of the way our shop is set up - it will only run when > client outlook is running - you may be able to make it a > system-wide or server rule if you have the permissions. > > I have not done this within VB code. > > > ****************************************************************** > *Patricia O'Connor > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst > *OTDA - BDMA > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > ****************************************************************** > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Andy Lacey > > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:08 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > > That's interesting Patricia. How did you do it? I've never > had any joy > > trying to do this. I wanted emails that I generate from > within Access, > > and which have an identifiable Subject, moved to a > sub-folder of Sent > > Items after sending. Have you done anything like that? > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > O'Connor, > > > Patricia (OTDA) > > > Sent: 18 August 2004 15:20 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > > > > > > > Yes It works for outgoing - I have several folders with > > sent messages > > > directed to it. Both Outlook 2000 and 2003 > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > > > *Patricia O'Connor > > > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA > > > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > > > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > > > ****************************************************************** > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 18 17:56:50 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:56:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just had a chance to try out some of the previous suggestions. (I haven't had a chance to check out OPLOCKS yet and I haven't downloaded PsTools yet.) I checked the file/folder permissions -check I checked the AV scanner exception list -ldb was in the exception list mdb wasn't I added that I ran the multiple applications on three workstations simultaneously and then closed them out properly, I checked the task list on each workstation -nothing listed Checked the open files on the server -ldbs were not open, mdbs were left open Returned to each workstation check processes with third party tool -nothing there Logged out of workstation with session files open, checked server open files -files closed Any other ideas? John B From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 19 02:24:36 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 00:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A5A@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <20040819072436.29589.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Scott, in reply on you're security issue: My advise: bother if you have to!! I do not know what kind of info/app it is but in must INTRAnet cases you don't need a fancy login procedure :-) If you need more info on security just let me know. Regards, Sander Jim DeMarco wrote: Scott, I've downloaded a tool called LogiXML. They offer a free single user license so you can download it and try it. I hadn't tried it yet but your post sort of pushed me into it (I'm not really a CR fan so I'm always looking for something else). I was able to very quickly get a simple report pulled from our SQL DB (in minutes actually) and published to my local web. It's worth a look I think. HTH, Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net I'm just about finished converting an Access97 project to ASP.Net with MYSQL backend. I must say that this is pretty cool stuff. Questions: 1)Is the best tool for reports for this situation, Crystal Reports and their web server control? What other options do I have? 2)I haven't implemented any security yet. Should I use Windows authentication or create login pages or use some other method? 3)I'm currently using IIS locally with WinXP Pro, any gotcha's moving the application to my Win2003 Server? 4)I'm using MySQL 4 on the Win2003 Server machine, what problems might I have when moving it to Linux? I have an experienced Linux/Unix administrator to help me, but he is new to MySQL. Here is what my setup will be... Linux for MySQL Windows Server 2003 for IIS (already setup) Each user will have Win2000 or WinXP Pro with IE 6. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 19 02:37:43 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 00:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! Message-ID: <20040819073743.27941.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, it's been a long while since I visited this list, furtunatly it was because of a .NET project But now business as usual. I need convert an A2K to A2k2. Everything went great. Got some warnings due to the misareble code but it worked great. Except for 1 thing: I cannot seem to open, see the database container!? Qua pasa? I've checked security settings, "hide databasecontainer" option (dunno the exact name), hit F11 (is it still F11 in A2k2) started the BE holding down shift while double clicking the file, checked that there's no code to disable the shift => NOTHING. So I need to migrate a A2k database (FE+BE) on WinNT4 to A2k2 on WinXP. Any ideas why I do not see the database window? Tia, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! From joeget at vgernet.net Thu Aug 19 04:26:02 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 05:26:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select question Message-ID: <00ac01c485ce$91c2b3b0$4dc2f63f@Desktop> What is the difference between select distinct and select distinctrow. When would I use one instead of the other. I have looked and cannot find the answer Thanks John From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Thu Aug 19 05:00:09 2004 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:00:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Select question Message-ID: Hi John I think the 'Select distinct' looks at the uniqueness of the columns returned in your query and select 'distinctrow' takes into account columns not returned by the query so Col1 Col2 Col3 (Col3 is not Returned but a row in the table) 1 A A C 2 A B C 3 A B D Select distinct would return rows 1 and 2 Select distinctrow would return rows 1 and 2 and 3 (as it takes col3 into account) Richard -----Original Message----- From: John Eget [mailto:joeget at vgernet.net] Sent: 19 August 2004 10:26 To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Select question What is the difference between select distinct and select distinctrow. When would I use one instead of the other. I have looked and cannot find the answer Thanks John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 19 06:32:38 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:32:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net Message-ID: Sander, I do need some type of security. This is payroll information for hourly employees. I would like to use Windows authentication but have not had a good start using it. Scott -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 3:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net Scott, in reply on you're security issue: My advise: bother if you have to!! I do not know what kind of info/app it is but in must INTRAnet cases you don't need a fancy login procedure :-) If you need more info on security just let me know. Regards, Sander Jim DeMarco wrote: Scott, I've downloaded a tool called LogiXML. They offer a free single user license so you can download it and try it. I hadn't tried it yet but your post sort of pushed me into it (I'm not really a CR fan so I'm always looking for something else). I was able to very quickly get a simple report pulled from our SQL DB (in minutes actually) and published to my local web. It's worth a look I think. HTH, Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net I'm just about finished converting an Access97 project to ASP.Net with MYSQL backend. I must say that this is pretty cool stuff. Questions: 1)Is the best tool for reports for this situation, Crystal Reports and their web server control? What other options do I have? 2)I haven't implemented any security yet. Should I use Windows authentication or create login pages or use some other method? 3)I'm currently using IIS locally with WinXP Pro, any gotcha's moving the application to my Win2003 Server? 4)I'm using MySQL 4 on the Win2003 Server machine, what problems might I have when moving it to Linux? I have an experienced Linux/Unix administrator to help me, but he is new to MySQL. Here is what my setup will be... Linux for MySQL Windows Server 2003 for IIS (already setup) Each user will have Win2000 or WinXP Pro with IE 6. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu Aug 19 06:44:55 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:44:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Not sure I understand this last bit: <> Is this terminal services or Citrix? Not exactly sure what you mean by "session". And at the end, your saying after doing this the server now sees the MDB file as closed for each of the work stations? Also, more specifics on the setup: 1. Client OS 2. Server OS 3. Network protocol(s) in use Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) I just had a chance to try out some of the previous suggestions. (I haven't had a chance to check out OPLOCKS yet and I haven't downloaded PsTools yet.) I checked the file/folder permissions -check I checked the AV scanner exception list -ldb was in the exception list mdb wasn't I added that I ran the multiple applications on three workstations simultaneously and then closed them out properly, I checked the task list on each workstation -nothing listed Checked the open files on the server -ldbs were not open, mdbs were left open Returned to each workstation check processes with third party tool -nothing there Logged out of workstation with session files open, checked server open files -files closed Any other ideas? John B -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 19 07:20:02 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:20:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41252792.17813.12E6082@lexacorp.com.pg> As Jim D said, more info on OS etc including SPs? There are a number of issues with XP and file locking (One of the reasons that I keep my clients on W2K ) For example see: http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=324002 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=814112 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=826722 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=822227 -- Stuart From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu Aug 19 08:04:58 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:04:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted dba-OT Message-ID: If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second description was "create a report based on data from several databases". Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices and no estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the unknown variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get some idea of best practices. Thank you, Mark From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Thu Aug 19 08:15:56 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:15:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Message-ID: <35C4AC5A5AFD9642833200159C258156A329FD@s98026.psd.caremark.int> Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what they need and what the environment is. Take this information to give them an estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing issues and support, if need be. This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope creep, and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get paid for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. HTH, Steve ----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second description was "create a report based on data from several databases". Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices and no estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the unknown variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get some idea of best practices. Thank you, Mark From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu Aug 19 08:44:26 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:44:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Questio n : x-posted d ba-OT Message-ID: There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm just hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance. Primarily, I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due to the sensitive nature of the data. That alone raises time issues...I have a 40-hour job already...are they going to be willing to allow me to work late into the evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal working hours? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what they need and what the environment is. Take this information to give them an estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing issues and support, if need be. This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope creep, and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get paid for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. HTH, Steve ----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second description was "create a report based on data from several databases". Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices and no estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the unknown variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get some idea of best practices. Thank you, Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Aug 19 09:50:22 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:50:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, (Sorry, I had that info in my original post on DBA-Tech) W98 Clients W2k3 Server TCP/IP VB Apps (multiple) utilizing A97 mdb BE (also multiple) When looking at Computer Management-Shared Folders you have three items by default (same with XP/W2K): Shares - obvious Sessions - indicates any user/machine utilizing a share Open Files - indicates the files being used via the share So by session I mean the user/machine with an open Shared File Session. Presently I have them right click on the Improperly open mdb BE file and choose Close File. As you mentioned previously "this needs to be fixed"! (I get a chuckle out of that every time I read it :o) For many years now the developers didn't know this was happening and neither did any previous support persons, I guess up until you all agreed, I was the only one that cared ;o) but it is causing problems with the apps backup function and at times it affects printing - which I have no idea why it would affect printing but I still think it needs to be fixed) The entire staff just says - that's just how XXX program works. (I won't do the company the dishonor of mentioning their name as it may be a locking issue). The issue that has not been resolved yet is the mdb BE is showing as an Open File after the user(s) have closed the application on the W98 client. When checking the client machine it shows that no process is hanging on the client machine. If I log out the client on the client machine the (improperly) open mdb BE file closes on the server. By deduction as a work around I could close the share on the client machine and it would close the session on the server and the file would close. I could then re-establish the share. Although I don't know if this is causing the file to close properly or not it would on the surface seem to be no worse than forcing it to close via the Computer Management interface on the server or by logging the client out. My immediate need is to address the issue in manner the users can deal with the problem without forcing them to login to the server. My goal is to eventually remove the problem - any ideas? I am pursuing Gustav and Stuart's suggestions on file locking problems. BTW: This problem also occurred on the WNT4 Server. Thanks for all your help, John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) John, Not sure I understand this last bit: <> Is this terminal services or Citrix? Not exactly sure what you mean by "session". And at the end, your saying after doing this the server now sees the MDB file as closed for each of the work stations? Also, more specifics on the setup: 1. Client OS 2. Server OS 3. Network protocol(s) in use Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) I just had a chance to try out some of the previous suggestions. (I haven't had a chance to check out OPLOCKS yet and I haven't downloaded PsTools yet.) I checked the file/folder permissions -check I checked the AV scanner exception list -ldb was in the exception list mdb wasn't I added that I ran the multiple applications on three workstations simultaneously and then closed them out properly, I checked the task list on each workstation -nothing listed Checked the open files on the server -ldbs were not open, mdbs were left open Returned to each workstation check processes with third party tool -nothing there Logged out of workstation with session files open, checked server open files -files closed Any other ideas? John B -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu Aug 19 10:11:10 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:11:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Definitely want to turn off OPLOCKS and see if it clears up the problem. See: Configuring Opportunistic Locking in Windows http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=296264 Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 10:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) Jim, (Sorry, I had that info in my original post on DBA-Tech) W98 Clients W2k3 Server TCP/IP VB Apps (multiple) utilizing A97 mdb BE (also multiple) When looking at Computer Management-Shared Folders you have three items by default (same with XP/W2K): Shares - obvious Sessions - indicates any user/machine utilizing a share Open Files - indicates the files being used via the share So by session I mean the user/machine with an open Shared File Session. Presently I have them right click on the Improperly open mdb BE file and choose Close File. As you mentioned previously "this needs to be fixed"! (I get a chuckle out of that every time I read it :o) For many years now the developers didn't know this was happening and neither did any previous support persons, I guess up until you all agreed, I was the only one that cared ;o) but it is causing problems with the apps backup function and at times it affects printing - which I have no idea why it would affect printing but I still think it needs to be fixed) The entire staff just says - that's just how XXX program works. (I won't do the company the dishonor of mentioning their name as it may be a locking issue). The issue that has not been resolved yet is the mdb BE is showing as an Open File after the user(s) have closed the application on the W98 client. When checking the client machine it shows that no process is hanging on the client machine. If I log out the client on the client machine the (improperly) open mdb BE file closes on the server. By deduction as a work around I could close the share on the client machine and it would close the session on the server and the file would close. I could then re-establish the share. Although I don't know if this is causing the file to close properly or not it would on the surface seem to be no worse than forcing it to close via the Computer Management interface on the server or by logging the client out. My immediate need is to address the issue in manner the users can deal with the problem without forcing them to login to the server. My goal is to eventually remove the problem - any ideas? I am pursuing Gustav and Stuart's suggestions on file locking problems. BTW: This problem also occurred on the WNT4 Server. Thanks for all your help, John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) John, Not sure I understand this last bit: <> Is this terminal services or Citrix? Not exactly sure what you mean by "session". And at the end, your saying after doing this the server now sees the MDB file as closed for each of the work stations? Also, more specifics on the setup: 1. Client OS 2. Server OS 3. Network protocol(s) in use Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) I just had a chance to try out some of the previous suggestions. (I haven't had a chance to check out OPLOCKS yet and I haven't downloaded PsTools yet.) I checked the file/folder permissions -check I checked the AV scanner exception list -ldb was in the exception list mdb wasn't I added that I ran the multiple applications on three workstations simultaneously and then closed them out properly, I checked the task list on each workstation -nothing listed Checked the open files on the server -ldbs were not open, mdbs were left open Returned to each workstation check processes with third party tool -nothing there Logged out of workstation with session files open, checked server open files -files closed Any other ideas? John B -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 19 10:14:27 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:14:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003101c485ff$3b1f53c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> If this truly is "once off" then it is better to lose the job than get it and get sucked into a quagmire. Ask them over the phone BEFORE any meetings to get together the data that needs to be looked at, draw up a report structure they would like to see, the list of tables and databases that it comes from. If they know it is "coming from several databases" then they must have some knowledge of this. Schedule a meeting. GIVE them one hour free of charge, plus travel time. Look at what they need and try to nail down in your own mind what is involved. At the end of that hour you should be able to tell them roughly how big a job it is. Tell them. Be prepared BEFORE you go in with what you want on an hourly basis. Then you can tell them X hours times Y dollars. Don't worry if they never call back. If they don't call back you don't want to work for them. The biggest thing to remember is that clients who "don't want to pay much" are a royal PITA with no real concept of what is involved and you are well done with them. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm just hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance. Primarily, I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due to the sensitive nature of the data. That alone raises time issues...I have a 40-hour job already...are they going to be willing to allow me to work late into the evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal working hours? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what they need and what the environment is. Take this information to give them an estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing issues and support, if need be. This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope creep, and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get paid for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. HTH, Steve ----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second description was "create a report based on data from several databases". Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices and no estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the unknown variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get some idea of best practices. Thank you, Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Thu Aug 19 10:17:29 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:17:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Field Problem Message-ID: <0CC84C9461AE6445AD5A602001C41C4B059E24@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Hi All, A2K (no SPs), Jet 4.0 SP8 I have a table with a memo field. If I open the table directly and look at a particular record where the memo field contains more than 255 characters, the data is truncated at 255. If I create a query that uses this same table, the field in the query that show the data in the memo field is truncated. If I use Dlookup to return the memo field the data is truncated. BUT...if I create a form that uses this table as its record source and I put a text box on the form that is bound to the memo field, the data is NOT truncated. Is there a work around to this problem? I have already read MSKB Q291529, which outlines a similar problem that I can reproduce but the solution of update jet to latest service part did not work. Thanks for any help you provide! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 19 10:21:07 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:21:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question :x-posted d ba-OT In-Reply-To: <35C4AC5A5AFD9642833200159C258156A329FD@s98026.psd.caremark.int> Message-ID: <20040819152106.GDJW1792.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Give them an hourly rate -- send them a bill every week -- don't work if they stop paying. I know that sounds extreme, but I will never again work for a fixed fee. Of course, you have to show results occasionally to keep yourself honest and to keep them interested -- but that's no big deal. Susan H. Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 19 10:24:07 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:24:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select question In-Reply-To: <00ac01c485ce$91c2b3b0$4dc2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <20040819152409.GFNS1792.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> SELECT DISTINCT returns a unique recordset based on the field that follows the DISTINCT keyword. SELECT DISTINCTROW returns a unique recordset based on all the fields in the retrieved recordset. Susan H. What is the difference between select distinct and select distinctrow. When would I use one instead of the other. I have looked and cannot find the answer Thanks John From clh at christopherhawkins.com Thu Aug 19 10:31:34 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:31:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Message-ID: <91930-220048419153134984@christopherhawkins.com> A simple NDA should cover their concerns about data. You might need to take a vacation day or two to get this done. Although the bulk of your work will probably be done in the evenings and on weekends, a couple of proper business-day visits will probably be helpful. As to how to get started, find out two things: 1) Who is the project sponsor - the person tasked with making it happen, and 2) who is responsible for approving the project and cutting your check. Take both of these people to lunch and pick their brains as to what they need. You might want to visit their office during your lunch hour as well to take a look at what they're currently doing so you can get a feel for where they're coming from. Good luck. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:44:26 -0400 >There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm >just >hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance. >Primarily, >I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due to the >sensitive >nature of the data. That alone raises time issues...I have a >40-hour job >already...are they going to be willing to allow me to work late into >the >evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal working hours? > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM >To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD] >Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive >Question : >x-posted d ba-OT > > > Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! > >I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb >has >been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very >complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will >be >very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. > >I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what >they >need and what the environment is. Take this information to give >them an >estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. >Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing >issues and >support, if need be. > >This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. >Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope >creep, >and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get >paid >for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. > >HTH, > >Steve > > > >----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- > >If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on >the >following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a >small >medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second >description was "create a report based on data from several >databases". > >Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have >received >several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices >and no >estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you >address >the >customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate >scope >of >work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? > >At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the >unknown >variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first >began, >may have started out this way, without the structure of business >licenses, >contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an >acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a >one-off >situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner >possible. >Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an >attorney, >an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people >have >worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get >some >idea >of best practices. > >Thank you, > > >Mark > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Respectfully, Christopher Hawkins Managing Developer http://www.christopherhawkins.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 19 10:30:13 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:30:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! Message-ID: Have you tried creating a new AXP database and importing all the objects rom the other one? Can you see the database window in that? It sounds like you can get into the code module, so have you tried writing some code to show the database window? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:38 PM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! Hi group, it's been a long while since I visited this list, furtunatly it was because of a .NET project But now business as usual. I need convert an A2K to A2k2. Everything went great. Got some warnings due to the misareble code but it worked great. Except for 1 thing: I cannot seem to open, see the database container!? Qua pasa? I've checked security settings, "hide databasecontainer" option (dunno the exact name), hit F11 (is it still F11 in A2k2) started the BE holding down shift while double clicking the file, checked that there's no code to disable the shift => NOTHING. So I need to migrate a A2k database (FE+BE) on WinNT4 to A2k2 on WinXP. Any ideas why I do not see the database window? Tia, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Thu Aug 19 10:54:13 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:54:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select question Message-ID: >From Access 2000 help files DISTINCT Omits records that contain duplicate data in the selected fields. To be included in the results of the query, the values for each field listed in the SELECT statement must be unique. For example, several employees listed in an Employees table may have the same last name. If two records contain Smith in the LastName field, the following SQL statement returns only one record that contains Smith: SELECT DISTINCT LastName FROM Employees; If you omit DISTINCT, this query returns both Smith records. If the SELECT clause contains more than one field, the combination of values from all fields must be unique for a given record to be included in the results. The output of a query that uses DISTINCT is not updatable and does not reflect subsequent changes made by other users. DISTINCTROW Omits data based on entire duplicate records, not just duplicate fields. For example, you could create a query that joins the Customers and Orders tables on the CustomerID field. The Customers table contains no duplicate CustomerID fields, but the Orders table does because each customer can have many orders. The following SQL statement shows how you can use DISTINCTROW to produce a list of companies that have at least one order but without any details about those orders: SELECT DISTINCTROW CompanyName FROM Customers INNER JOIN Orders ON Customers.CustomerID = Orders.CustomerID ORDER BY CompanyName; If you omit DISTINCTROW, this query produces multiple rows for each company that has more than one order. DISTINCTROW has an effect only when you select fields from some, but not all, of the tables used in the query. DISTINCTROW is ignored if your query includes only one table, or if you output fields from all tables. HTH ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Eget > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 05:26 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Select question > > What is the difference between select distinct and select > distinctrow. When would I use one instead of the other. I > have looked and cannot find the answer Thanks John > -- > _______________________________________________ From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu Aug 19 10:53:48 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:53:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Questio n : x-posted d ba-OT Message-ID: This gives me confidence that I was headed in the right direction. I was planning on a short investigative meeting at "no charge". I remember hearing in the past phrases to the effect "...if we are discussing the job or my rate then you are paying me for that time", but I didn't feel that I was in a position to be that bold. I spoke with someone today who warned me that persons in the medical field were notoriously cost driven and reluctant to pay for someone's time. I found this ironic considering that when I go to a doctor's office and he refers me to a specialist, I still have to pay the doctor for his time even though he did 'nothing';) Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT If this truly is "once off" then it is better to lose the job than get it and get sucked into a quagmire. Ask them over the phone BEFORE any meetings to get together the data that needs to be looked at, draw up a report structure they would like to see, the list of tables and databases that it comes from. If they know it is "coming from several databases" then they must have some knowledge of this. Schedule a meeting. GIVE them one hour free of charge, plus travel time. Look at what they need and try to nail down in your own mind what is involved. At the end of that hour you should be able to tell them roughly how big a job it is. Tell them. Be prepared BEFORE you go in with what you want on an hourly basis. Then you can tell them X hours times Y dollars. Don't worry if they never call back. If they don't call back you don't want to work for them. The biggest thing to remember is that clients who "don't want to pay much" are a royal PITA with no real concept of what is involved and you are well done with them. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm just hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance. Primarily, I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due to the sensitive nature of the data. That alone raises time issues...I have a 40-hour job already...are they going to be willing to allow me to work late into the evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal working hours? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what they need and what the environment is. Take this information to give them an estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing issues and support, if need be. This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope creep, and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get paid for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. HTH, Steve ----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second description was "create a report based on data from several databases". Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices and no estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the unknown variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get some idea of best practices. Thank you, Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu Aug 19 11:00:55 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:00:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Questio n : x-posted d ba-OT Message-ID: Very good points regarding the different contacts...thanks. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT A simple NDA should cover their concerns about data. You might need to take a vacation day or two to get this done. Although the bulk of your work will probably be done in the evenings and on weekends, a couple of proper business-day visits will probably be helpful. As to how to get started, find out two things: 1) Who is the project sponsor - the person tasked with making it happen, and 2) who is responsible for approving the project and cutting your check. Take both of these people to lunch and pick their brains as to what they need. You might want to visit their office during your lunch hour as well to take a look at what they're currently doing so you can get a feel for where they're coming from. Good luck. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:44:26 -0400 >There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm >just >hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance. >Primarily, >I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due to the >sensitive >nature of the data. That alone raises time issues...I have a >40-hour job >already...are they going to be willing to allow me to work late into >the >evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal working hours? > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM >To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD] >Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive >Question : >x-posted d ba-OT > > > Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! > >I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb >has >been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very >complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will >be >very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. > >I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what >they >need and what the environment is. Take this information to give >them an >estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. >Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing >issues and >support, if need be. > >This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. >Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope >creep, >and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get >paid >for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. > >HTH, > >Steve > > > >----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- > >If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on >the >following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a >small >medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second >description was "create a report based on data from several >databases". > >Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have >received >several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices >and no >estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you >address >the >customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate >scope >of >work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? > >At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the >unknown >variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first >began, >may have started out this way, without the structure of business >licenses, >contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an >acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a >one-off >situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner >possible. >Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an >attorney, >an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people >have >worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get >some >idea >of best practices. > >Thank you, > > >Mark > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Respectfully, Christopher Hawkins Managing Developer http://www.christopherhawkins.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HARVEYF1 at WESTAT.com Thu Aug 19 11:18:01 2004 From: HARVEYF1 at WESTAT.com (Francis Harvey) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:18:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! Message-ID: <446DDE75CFC7E1438061462F85557B0F0481EA19@remail2.westat.com> Sander, Check the Window menu to see if you can Unhide any windows. If not, bad screen location perhaps? Click one of the Tile options to see if the window gets resized and placed in a visible location. Francis R Harvey III WB 303, (301)294-3952 harveyf1 at westat.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 3:38 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! > > > Hi group, > > it's been a long while since I visited this list, furtunatly > it was because of a .NET project > > But now business as usual. I need convert an A2K to A2k2. > Everything went great. Got some warnings due to the misareble > code but it worked great. Except for 1 thing: > I cannot seem to open, see the database container!? Qua pasa? > > I've checked security settings, "hide databasecontainer" > option (dunno the exact name), hit F11 (is it still F11 in > A2k2) started the BE holding down shift while double clicking > the file, checked that there's no code to disable the shift > => NOTHING. > > So I need to migrate a A2k database (FE+BE) on WinNT4 to A2k2 > on WinXP. > > Any ideas why I do not see the database window? > > Tia, > > Sander From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Aug 19 11:58:22 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:58:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select question Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F02D087FD@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Exactly. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Griffiths, > Richard > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:00 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select question > > Hi John > > I think the 'Select distinct' looks at the uniqueness of the columns > returned in your query and select 'distinctrow' takes into account > columns not returned by the query so > > Col1 Col2 Col3 (Col3 is not Returned but a row in the > table) > 1 A A C > 2 A B C > 3 A B D > > Select distinct would return rows 1 and 2 > Select distinctrow would return rows 1 and 2 and 3 (as it takes col3 > into account) > > Richard > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Eget [mailto:joeget at vgernet.net] > Sent: 19 August 2004 10:26 > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Select question > > What is the difference between select distinct and select distinctrow. > When would I use one instead of the other. I have looked and cannot find > the answer > Thanks > John > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Thu Aug 19 12:01:23 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:01:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Jeffrey F Demulling/MN/USB is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 08/19/2004 and will not return until 08/23/2004. I will respond to your message when I return. Please contact Greg Paoli (651-495-3925) if you have an urgent matter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ============================================================================== From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Aug 19 11:55:55 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:55:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Questio n : x-posted d ba-OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Mark: If you do decide to get into this project be sure to get clear list of information. I find it is best to get a retainer fee up front before any work is started, especially involving dubious adventures. This initial amount provides a number of benefits; First, it shows how serious the clients are, with the project and you. Second, it also implies a commitment on the client's part. Third, it shows that they are willing to pay for work done. Fourth, it will set the business tone of the contract. Fifth, in the worst case scenario, if the project goes 'off the tracks', at least you are not totally out pocket and time. The amount charged ranges from one quarter to one third but that depends on the specific project. The previous are suggestions have worked well with many of my new contracts. Your situation may be different but I hope this helps. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Questio n : x-posted d ba-OT There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm just hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance. Primarily, I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due to the sensitive nature of the data. That alone raises time issues...I have a 40-hour job already...are they going to be willing to allow me to work late into the evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal working hours? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what they need and what the environment is. Take this information to give them an estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing issues and support, if need be. This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope creep, and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get paid for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. HTH, Steve ----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second description was "create a report based on data from several databases". Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices and no estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the unknown variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get some idea of best practices. Thank you, Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 19 16:58:03 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:58:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] [OT] Product Activation. Message-ID: <4125AF0B.23241.33F9214@lexacorp.com.pg> Well it's Friday morning here in PNG already: Brand-new sealed software on the store shelf has product keys that are already used, and have exceeded the maximum number of activations... http://www.w00t-comic.net/20040809.html The actual story behind the comic: http://www.w00t-comic.net/index.html (below the unrelated cartoon) -----8<----- ...every single swinging copy of NAV2004 we had in stock had had its product key poached and that I would have to send every single swinging copy of NAV2004 we had in stock back to the supplier for replacements. When I pointed out that this was kind of silly, as it was very, very possible that the replacements would have also had their product keys poached, the second real human being got very quiet for a minute. "...yeah," she said, "now that you mention it..." -----8<----- -- Stuart From joeget at vgernet.net Thu Aug 19 19:49:17 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:49:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select question References: Message-ID: <001401c4864f$8eb45da0$8bc2f63f@Desktop> thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Griffiths, Richard" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:00 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select question > Hi John > > I think the 'Select distinct' looks at the uniqueness of the columns > returned in your query and select 'distinctrow' takes into account > columns not returned by the query so > > Col1 Col2 Col3 (Col3 is not Returned but a row in the > table) > 1 A A C > 2 A B C > 3 A B D > > Select distinct would return rows 1 and 2 > Select distinctrow would return rows 1 and 2 and 3 (as it takes col3 > into account) > > Richard > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Eget [mailto:joeget at vgernet.net] > Sent: 19 August 2004 10:26 > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Select question > > What is the difference between select distinct and select distinctrow. > When would I use one instead of the other. I have looked and cannot find > the answer > Thanks > John > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Thu Aug 19 20:01:16 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:01:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Jeffrey F Demulling/MN/USB is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 08/19/2004 and will not return until 08/23/2004. I will respond to your message when I return. Please contact Greg Paoli (651-495-3925) if you have an urgent matter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ============================================================================== From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 20 08:11:35 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:11:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000e01c486b7$3c0eda40$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Does anyone know how to link a customer record in a database to the matching address in Outlook? I would like to point to outlook rather than entering the contact info in my database. I don't really know how to tell Access the "PK" or pointer to a specific record in an outlook address book. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 20 08:33:03 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:33:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook In-Reply-To: <000e01c486b7$3c0eda40$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20040820133303.UPOH1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> John, you can link manually, but I'm guessing you don't want to do that? Oh yeah, I think to link manually, Outlook must be the system's default client, which is often a problem anyway. I'd check Helen's site. Susan H. Does anyone know how to link a customer record in a database to the matching address in Outlook? I would like to point to outlook rather than entering the contact info in my database. I don't really know how to tell Access the "PK" or pointer to a specific record in an outlook address book. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 20 08:34:04 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:34:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: External hard disk Message-ID: <000f01c486ba$654d99c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Just an addendum to this message, while the transfer rate is fairly high at 25mb / sec the CPU utilization is immense, averaging about 60% on my P64 3g laptop. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 10:49 PM To: 'dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: External hard disk I purchased a "mobile disk" external hard disk enclosure from CompUSA to put one of the 200gb hard disks in so I could take the db with me and work off my laptop. I found a diag program out there somewhere that tested the transfer speed. For USB 2.0 the transfer speed was ~25 mbyte / sec. For fire wire (4 pin) it was only 17.5 mbyte / sec. This with the Maxtor 200g 8mb cache. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Aug 20 08:38:44 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:38:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook Message-ID: Using your link table wizard, link to whichever Exchange/Outlook address book contains your contact info...then it is just another table. Exchange & Outlook are both available as "linkable". Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 9:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook Does anyone know how to link a customer record in a database to the matching address in Outlook? I would like to point to outlook rather than entering the contact info in my database. I don't really know how to tell Access the "PK" or pointer to a specific record in an outlook address book. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Fri Aug 20 09:05:16 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:05:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number Message-ID: Try EVALNO: "EVAL-" & [DISCIPLINENO] & "-" & FORMAT(NOW(), "YY") & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000" Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Hollis,Virginia > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:15 AM > To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' > Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number > > Yes, the current year, but I need the year formatted with > just 2 digits. I tried this & get 2004, I just need 04. > ********************** > You mean the current year? > > EvalNo: "EVAL-" & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Year(Now)) & "-" & > Format([EVTaskNum],"000") > > Susan H. > > I need to assign a number for a document that contains the > discipline number, the year, and a new task number. I can't > seem to get the year part to work - how do I have it add the > year to a number (and it must change every year too)? The > year would come after the discipline so the number would be: > EVAL-123-04-001. > > > > EvalNo: "EVAL " & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") > > > > Virginia > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 20 09:06:10 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:06:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook In-Reply-To: <000e01c486b7$3c0eda40$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> References: <000e01c486b7$3c0eda40$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <4325844201.20040820160610@cactus.dk> Hi John This should get you started. Access ExchSys utility: http://www.trigeminal.com/lang/1033/utility.asp?ItemID=14 The Jet 4.0 Exchange/Outlook IISAM: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart00/html/sa00h12.asp /gustav > Does anyone know how to link a customer record in a database to the matching > address in Outlook? I would like to point to outlook rather than entering > the contact info in my database. I don't really know how to tell Access the > "PK" or pointer to a specific record in an outlook address book. > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Fri Aug 20 09:26:06 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:26:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Field Problem Message-ID: <0CC84C9461AE6445AD5A602001C41C4B059E2A@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Hi All, A2K (no SPs), Jet 4.0 SP8 I have a table with a memo field. If I open the table directly and look at a particular record where the memo field contains more than 255 characters, the data is truncated at 255. If I create a query that uses this same table, the field in the query that show the data in the memo field is truncated. If I use Dlookup to return the memo field the data is truncated. BUT...if I create a form that uses this table as its record source and I put a text box on the form that is bound to the memo field, the data is NOT truncated. Is there a work around to this problem? I have already read MSKB Q291529, which outlines a similar problem that I can reproduce but the solution of update jet to latest service part did not work. Thanks for any help you provide! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 20 09:38:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:38:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Field Problem In-Reply-To: <0CC84C9461AE6445AD5A602001C41C4B059E2A@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Message-ID: <000101c486c3$5013b4f0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> You need to apply at least up to SP1a. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Rojas Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 10:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Memo Field Problem Hi All, A2K (no SPs), Jet 4.0 SP8 I have a table with a memo field. If I open the table directly and look at a particular record where the memo field contains more than 255 characters, the data is truncated at 255. If I create a query that uses this same table, the field in the query that show the data in the memo field is truncated. If I use Dlookup to return the memo field the data is truncated. BUT...if I create a form that uses this table as its record source and I put a text box on the form that is bound to the memo field, the data is NOT truncated. Is there a work around to this problem? I have already read MSKB Q291529, which outlines a similar problem that I can reproduce but the solution of update jet to latest service part did not work. Thanks for any help you provide! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 20 09:38:59 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:38:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook In-Reply-To: <4325844201.20040820160610@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000201c486c3$6e09b090$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Thanks. It seems silly to keep the data in two places. Just goes against my database normalization brain. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 10:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook Hi John This should get you started. Access ExchSys utility: http://www.trigeminal.com/lang/1033/utility.asp?ItemID=14 The Jet 4.0 Exchange/Outlook IISAM: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart00/h tml/sa00h12.asp /gustav > Does anyone know how to link a customer record in a database to the > matching address in Outlook? I would like to point to outlook rather > than entering the contact info in my database. I don't really know > how to tell Access the "PK" or pointer to a specific record in an > outlook address book. > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 20 09:55:10 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:55:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook In-Reply-To: <000201c486c3$6e09b090$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> References: <000201c486c3$6e09b090$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <13128784119.20040820165510@cactus.dk> Hi John > Thanks. It seems silly to keep the data in two places. Just goes against > my database normalization brain. ;-) Given the Outlook database I'm not sure how silly that would be ... Maybe you rather should aim for a replication system? /gustav > This should get you started. > Access ExchSys utility: > http://www.trigeminal.com/lang/1033/utility.asp?ItemID=14 > The Jet 4.0 Exchange/Outlook IISAM: > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart00/html/sa00h12.asp >> Does anyone know how to link a customer record in a database to the >> matching address in Outlook? I would like to point to outlook rather >> than entering the contact info in my database. I don't really know >> how to tell Access the "PK" or pointer to a specific record in an >> outlook address book. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 20 10:11:02 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:11:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook In-Reply-To: <13128784119.20040820165510@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000301c486c7$e85b2dc0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> ROTFL John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook Hi John > Thanks. It seems silly to keep the data in two places. Just goes > against my database normalization brain. ;-) Given the Outlook database I'm not sure how silly that would be ... Maybe you rather should aim for a replication system? /gustav > This should get you started. > Access ExchSys utility: > http://www.trigeminal.com/lang/1033/utility.asp?ItemID=14 > The Jet 4.0 Exchange/Outlook IISAM: > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsma > rt00/html/sa00h12.asp >> Does anyone know how to link a customer record in a database to the >> matching address in Outlook? I would like to point to outlook rather >> than entering the contact info in my database. I don't really know >> how to tell Access the "PK" or pointer to a specific record in an >> outlook address book. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From GregSmith at starband.net Fri Aug 20 11:30:52 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:30:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] References-Converted to 2k code stops on Usysreferencescheck module In-Reply-To: <13128784119.20040820165510@cactus.dk> References: <000201c486c3$6e09b090$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> <13128784119.20040820165510@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <1567.216.43.21.235.1093019452.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi everyone! Happy FRIDAY! I'm using Gustav's code to check references in Access 97, and, it works great in A97. I'm using the code that runs via the autoexec from his article in the Archives. After converting to A2k (on the way to XP/2003), the program dies during the execution of the autoexec when it hits the code: DoCmd.OpenModule "Usysreferencescheck", "" where Usysreferencescheck is an empty module. Apparently A2k doesn't like this. There is no error or message, it just brings up the visual basic editor and quits. Or am I missing something else? TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net From john at winhaven.net Fri Aug 20 13:14:20 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:14:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, Stuart, etal: OK, I going to give disabling OPLOCKs a try. One question - is rebooting required after changing this setting? I couldn't find the answer. (Just scheduling issue really - if so I'll have to do it after work hours). Thanks, John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) John, Not sure I understand this last bit: <> Is this terminal services or Citrix? Not exactly sure what you mean by "session". And at the end, your saying after doing this the server now sees the MDB file as closed for each of the work stations? Also, more specifics on the setup: 1. Client OS 2. Server OS 3. Network protocol(s) in use Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) I just had a chance to try out some of the previous suggestions. (I haven't had a chance to check out OPLOCKS yet and I haven't downloaded PsTools yet.) I checked the file/folder permissions -check I checked the AV scanner exception list -ldb was in the exception list mdb wasn't I added that I ran the multiple applications on three workstations simultaneously and then closed them out properly, I checked the task list on each workstation -nothing listed Checked the open files on the server -ldbs were not open, mdbs were left open Returned to each workstation check processes with third party tool -nothing there Logged out of workstation with session files open, checked server open files -files closed Any other ideas? John B -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 20 13:16:35 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:16:35 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] References-Converted to 2k code stops on Usysreferencescheck module In-Reply-To: <1567.216.43.21.235.1093019452.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> References: <000201c486c3$6e09b090$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> <13128784119.20040820165510@cactus.dk> <1567.216.43.21.235.1093019452.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: <15640869166.20040820201635@cactus.dk> Hi Greg That's nearly right. The command shown will open the module; however, the following Close command will close the app and not just the module window as in A97. The quick-n-dirty solution seems to replace the macro entry having the Close command with: SendKeys Keypress: %FC Wait: No The usual commands for entering menuitems as well as Alt+Q seems to be ignored when switching to the VB editor window ... Also, the Echo Off and On command entries can be omitted as they don't work for switching to the VB editor window. /gustav > Hi everyone! Happy FRIDAY! > I'm using Gustav's code to check references in Access 97, and, it works > great in A97. I'm using the code that runs via the autoexec from his > article in the Archives. After converting to A2k (on the way to XP/2003), > the program dies during the execution of the autoexec when it hits the > code: > DoCmd.OpenModule "Usysreferencescheck", "" > where Usysreferencescheck is an empty module. Apparently A2k doesn't like > this. There is no error or message, it just brings up the visual basic > editor and quits. > Or am I missing something else? > TIA! > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 20 13:55:48 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:55:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation Message-ID: <01a401c486e7$4ebdb780$6601a8c0@rock> I have a table with a bunch of columns containing numeric values, most of them recording tons, a few recording values, and one recording the last day of a given month. There may be 10 years of data. Each month is represented by one row using its last day as the identifier. Then we have a bunch of columns whose values come from a collection of tables (i.e. sales figures, production figures, etc.). Some of the values are input by (alleged) humans. For example (these are just a few of said columns) Opening Stocks -- numeric Working Stocks -- stock on hand to cover emergencies (plant shutdown, worker strike, machine breakdown etc.) Production -- numbers derived from a table sent to my client by the producer (in this case a mine) There are a couple of dozen such columns. Now, to my question. I need to present this data in a sort-of spreadsheet format, wherein every column (save the date) is presented as a row, and the values are presented in the appropriate Year/Month column, so that the result looks like this: Jan 2005 Feb 2005 Mar 2005 etc. Opening Stocks 6843 6829 etc. Working Stocks 5500 5500 etc. Production 10572 10121 etc. I've been playing around with the crosstab wizard, at which I am no expert, but it doesn't seem to be giving me what I want. The PivotTable wizard is closer to what I need, and quite powerful, but I still can't get exactly what I want. Any ideas? Maybe I have to do it all in code? Or maybe I just need to learn more about either the crosstab or the pivot-table wizard? TIA, Arthur P.S. This is an Access MDB not a SQL BE. From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 20 14:08:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:08:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] References-Converted to 2k code stops on Usysreferencescheck module In-Reply-To: <1567.216.43.21.235.1093019452.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> References: <000201c486c3$6e09b090$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> <13128784119.20040820165510@cactus.dk> <1567.216.43.21.235.1093019452.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: <8943967091.20040820210812@cactus.dk> Hi Greg et all Create this tiny function for closing the VBE window: Public Function VbeMainWindowClose() Application.VBE.MainWindow.Visible = False End Function Then adjust the AutoExec macro like this: OpenModule UsysReferencesCheck RunCode VbeMainWindowClose() RunCommand CompileAndSaveAllModules Please let me know if this works for you. /gustav > Date: 2004-08-20 18:30 > Hi everyone! Happy FRIDAY! > I'm using Gustav's code to check references in Access 97, and, it works > great in A97. I'm using the code that runs via the autoexec from his > article in the Archives. After converting to A2k (on the way to XP/2003), > the program dies during the execution of the autoexec when it hits the > code: > DoCmd.OpenModule "Usysreferencescheck", "" > where Usysreferencescheck is an empty module. Apparently A2k doesn't like > this. There is no error or message, it just brings up the visual basic > editor and quits. > Or am I missing something else? > TIA! > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 20 14:11:31 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:11:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation In-Reply-To: <01a401c486e7$4ebdb780$6601a8c0@rock> References: <01a401c486e7$4ebdb780$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <6544165486.20040820211131@cactus.dk> Hi Arthur How is this different from a crosstab? Seems a perfect match to me ... /gustav > I have a table with a bunch of columns containing numeric values, most > of them recording tons, a few recording values, and one recording the > last day of a given month. There may be 10 years of data. Each month is > represented by one row using its last day as the identifier. Then we > have a bunch of columns whose values come from a collection of tables > (i.e. sales figures, production figures, etc.). Some of the values are > input by (alleged) humans. > For example (these are just a few of said columns) > Opening Stocks -- numeric > Working Stocks -- stock on hand to cover emergencies (plant shutdown, > worker strike, machine breakdown etc.) > Production -- numbers derived from a table sent to my client by the > producer (in this case a mine) > There are a couple of dozen such columns. > Now, to my question. I need to present this data in a sort-of > spreadsheet format, wherein every column (save the date) is presented as > a row, and the values are presented in the appropriate Year/Month > column, so that the result looks like this: > Jan 2005 Feb 2005 Mar 2005 etc. > Opening Stocks 6843 6829 etc. > Working Stocks 5500 5500 etc. > Production 10572 10121 etc. > I've been playing around with the crosstab wizard, at which I am no > expert, but it doesn't seem to be giving me what I want. The PivotTable > wizard is closer to what I need, and quite powerful, but I still can't > get exactly what I want. > Any ideas? Maybe I have to do it all in code? Or maybe I just need to > learn more about either the crosstab or the pivot-table wizard? > TIA, > Arthur > P.S. > This is an Access MDB not a SQL BE. From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Aug 20 15:35:07 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:35:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Reboot required. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 2:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) Jim, Stuart, etal: OK, I going to give disabling OPLOCKs a try. One question - is rebooting required after changing this setting? I couldn't find the answer. (Just scheduling issue really - if so I'll have to do it after work hours). Thanks, John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) John, Not sure I understand this last bit: <> Is this terminal services or Citrix? Not exactly sure what you mean by "session". And at the end, your saying after doing this the server now sees the MDB file as closed for each of the work stations? Also, more specifics on the setup: 1. Client OS 2. Server OS 3. Network protocol(s) in use Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) I just had a chance to try out some of the previous suggestions. (I haven't had a chance to check out OPLOCKS yet and I haven't downloaded PsTools yet.) I checked the file/folder permissions -check I checked the AV scanner exception list -ldb was in the exception list mdb wasn't I added that I ran the multiple applications on three workstations simultaneously and then closed them out properly, I checked the task list on each workstation -nothing listed Checked the open files on the server -ldbs were not open, mdbs were left open Returned to each workstation check processes with third party tool -nothing there Logged out of workstation with session files open, checked server open files -files closed Any other ideas? John B -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Fri Aug 20 18:54:18 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:54:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Convert Access 97 to 2003 and SQL Server Message-ID: <001301c48711$01cca880$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> I need to convert an Access 97 application (w/ front end and back end databases) to Access 2003. I downloaded Microsoft's Conversion Toolkit to help with this process (which I have not yet started). My client has also asked me to check into converting the application to SQL Server. I believe that there are utilities to convert Access back end data to SQL Server. Is this correct? Will the front end database need to be modified as well to access SQL Server data? Thanks, Barb Ryan From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 20 19:08:00 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:08:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question :x-posted d ba-OT In-Reply-To: <003101c485ff$3b1f53c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <01db01c48712$eba66c10$6601a8c0@rock> Wow, the voice of experience! As a comedienne whose name eludes me once said, "I've never fallen in love, but I have stepped in it." I have a very brutal rule: I need a sample data set as small as possible but that covers all the possibilities, with known results, so that I can verify all reports etc. before shipping the version to the client. Assuming for example five SalesTypes or somesuch, I demand one example of each with all attendant details. Client doesn't agree to supply this minimal data set, I fire the client. Nuff said. Get an illegal immigrant to write the app and chase the insigificant dollars for months. It won't be me. As a very highly skilled painter once said to me, "Let the others do the two-bedroom apartments. I hold out for the mansions." And you know what? It worked! He had all the work he could handle. People doing $100K renovations would wait a month to hire him instead of going with someone else who was cheaper and available now. Among other things, he taught me how to paint doors and window frames so they look as smooth as glass. The hardest lesson in this business is how to recognize and fire the unprofitable clients. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question :x-posted d ba-OT If this truly is "once off" then it is better to lose the job than get it and get sucked into a quagmire. Ask them over the phone BEFORE any meetings to get together the data that needs to be looked at, draw up a report structure they would like to see, the list of tables and databases that it comes from. If they know it is "coming from several databases" then they must have some knowledge of this. Schedule a meeting. GIVE them one hour free of charge, plus travel time. Look at what they need and try to nail down in your own mind what is involved. At the end of that hour you should be able to tell them roughly how big a job it is. Tell them. Be prepared BEFORE you go in with what you want on an hourly basis. Then you can tell them X hours times Y dollars. Don't worry if they never call back. If they don't call back you don't want to work for them. The biggest thing to remember is that clients who "don't want to pay much" are a royal PITA with no real concept of what is involved and you are well done with them. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm just hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance. Primarily, I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due to the sensitive nature of the data. That alone raises time issues...I have a 40-hour job already...are they going to be willing to allow me to work late into the evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal working hours? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what they need and what the environment is. Take this information to give them an estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing issues and support, if need be. This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope creep, and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get paid for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. HTH, Steve ----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second description was "create a report based on data from several databases". Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices and no estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the unknown variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get some idea of best practices. Thank you, Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 20 19:11:51 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:11:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation In-Reply-To: <6544165486.20040820211131@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <01dc01c48713$75c3ef80$6601a8c0@rock> I thought so too, and that's why I designed the table that way, but I can't seem to make it work. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 3:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation Hi Arthur How is this different from a crosstab? Seems a perfect match to me ... /gustav From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Aug 20 19:26:45 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:26:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] re:[dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question :x-posted d ba-OT In-Reply-To: <01db01c48712$eba66c10$6601a8c0@rock> References: <003101c485ff$3b1f53c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <41272365.7099.3CEE0C9@lexacorp.com.pg> On 20 Aug 2004 at 20:08, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Wow, the voice of experience! > > As a comedienne whose name eludes me once said, "I've never fallen in > love, but I have stepped in it." > Rita Rudner. -- Stuart From GregSmith at starband.net Fri Aug 20 22:25:22 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 22:25:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] References-Converted to 2k code stops on Usysreferencescheck module In-Reply-To: <8943967091.20040820210812@cactus.dk> References: <000201c486c3$6e09b090$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> <13128784119.20040820165510@cactus.dk> <1567.216.43.21.235.1093019452.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> <8943967091.20040820210812@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <42079.170.206.250.82.1093058722.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi Gustav I'll give this a try tomorrow (or at the latest Monday)...but we're out camping right now and I'm toooooo tired to think very hard tonight. Thanks for the tip & code, I do appreciate your help! I'll let you know the results as soon as I get them tested. Greg > Hi Greg et all > > Create this tiny function for closing the VBE window: > > > > Public Function VbeMainWindowClose() > > Application.VBE.MainWindow.Visible = False > > End Function > > > > Then adjust the AutoExec macro like this: > > > > OpenModule > UsysReferencesCheck > > RunCode > VbeMainWindowClose() > > RunCommand > CompileAndSaveAllModules > > > > Please let me know if this works for you. > > /gustav > > >> Date: 2004-08-20 18:30 > >> Hi everyone! Happy FRIDAY! > >> I'm using Gustav's code to check references in Access 97, and, it >> works great in A97. I'm using the code that runs via the autoexec >> from his article in the Archives. After converting to A2k (on the way >> to XP/2003), the program dies during the execution of the autoexec >> when it hits the code: > >> DoCmd.OpenModule "Usysreferencescheck", "" > >> where Usysreferencescheck is an empty module. Apparently A2k doesn't >> like this. There is no error or message, it just brings up the visual >> basic editor and quits. > >> Or am I missing something else? > >> TIA! > >> Greg Smith >> gregsmith at starband.net From john at winhaven.net Fri Aug 20 23:03:57 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:03:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, Looks like an after hours party then. Thanks! John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 3:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) John, Reboot required. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 2:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) Jim, Stuart, etal: OK, I going to give disabling OPLOCKs a try. One question - is rebooting required after changing this setting? I couldn't find the answer. (Just scheduling issue really - if so I'll have to do it after work hours). Thanks, John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) John, Not sure I understand this last bit: <> Is this terminal services or Citrix? Not exactly sure what you mean by "session". And at the end, your saying after doing this the server now sees the MDB file as closed for each of the work stations? Also, more specifics on the setup: 1. Client OS 2. Server OS 3. Network protocol(s) in use Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) I just had a chance to try out some of the previous suggestions. (I haven't had a chance to check out OPLOCKS yet and I haven't downloaded PsTools yet.) I checked the file/folder permissions -check I checked the AV scanner exception list -ldb was in the exception list mdb wasn't I added that I ran the multiple applications on three workstations simultaneously and then closed them out properly, I checked the task list on each workstation -nothing listed Checked the open files on the server -ldbs were not open, mdbs were left open Returned to each workstation check processes with third party tool -nothing there Logged out of workstation with session files open, checked server open files -files closed Any other ideas? John B -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sat Aug 21 12:57:01 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:57:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Convert Access 97 to 2003 and SQL Server References: <001301c48711$01cca880$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <41278CED.5090406@shaw.ca> The conversion tool kit only reports on areas of concern that have to be addressed later by the Upsizing wizard (available from Tools Database Utilities menu) Handy, if you have to fix a hundred reports. Have a look at this article by Susan, to help you decide whether to go with ADP or MDB Access 2003 front ends. Using Access to build a front end for SQL Server http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-6329-5065669.html?fromtm=e056 One major question to be addressed is your client buying a license for SQL Server or are you going to use MSDE 2000. And is your client savvy enough to handle SQL backups and restore or are you going to write all the code to make this transparent.. If using MSDE 2000, the client may not have the use of SQL Enterprise Manager. So you may have to use something like this freebie from a Microsoft MVP DBA Manager 2K to handle user security and backup etc. http://www.asql.biz/DbaMgr.shtm There is a new version of MSDE 2000 called SQL Server Express that is in Beta just now. It will get around the 5 user throttling problem, allows 4 Gig database with enhanced security. It will also come with its own version of EM but that hasn't been released yet. You might want to pick up this book too SQL: Access to SQL Server by Susan Sales Harkins, Martin W.P. Reid Barbara Ryan wrote: >I need to convert an Access 97 application (w/ front end and back end databases) to Access 2003. I downloaded Microsoft's Conversion Toolkit to help with this process (which I have not yet started). > >My client has also asked me to check into converting the application to SQL Server. I believe that there are utilities to convert Access back end data to SQL Server. Is this correct? Will the front end database need to be modified as well to access SQL Server data? > >Thanks, >Barb Ryan > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Aug 21 13:05:21 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 20:05:21 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Reference, Property, Kind, constants? Message-ID: <19941518430.20040821200521@cactus.dk> Hi all Anyone familiar with the VBE constants for the "Kind" property of a reference? It can be 0 or 1. Two constants are listed at Microsoft: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbaac11/html/acprokind.asp vbext_rk_TypeLib and vbext_rk_Project, but these are neither recognised by my Access 97 nor Access 2002. Is this an Access 2003 speciality? /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Aug 21 13:32:24 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 20:32:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Reference, Property, Kind, constants? In-Reply-To: <19941518430.20040821200521@cactus.dk> References: <19941518430.20040821200521@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <9943141764.20040821203224@cactus.dk> Hi all Susan informed me, that these comes from the VBIDE library: Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications Extensibility 5.3 If you add this to your references, you've got the constants. The purpose of is this library is briefly explained here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/modcore/html/deconWorkingWithMicrosoftVisualBasicForApplicationsExtensibility53Library.asp Sorry for the long URL. /gustav > Anyone familiar with the VBE constants for the "Kind" property of a > reference? > It can be 0 or 1. > Two constants are listed at Microsoft: > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbaac11/html/acprokind.asp > vbext_rk_TypeLib and vbext_rk_Project, > but these are neither recognised by my Access 97 nor Access 2002. > Is this an Access 2003 speciality? > /gustav From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Sat Aug 21 14:19:11 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:19:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Convert Access 97 to 2003 and SQL Server References: <001301c48711$01cca880$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> <41278CED.5090406@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <000a01c487b3$bd16cba0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Marty.... I appreciate all the info! --- Thanks, Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Convert Access 97 to 2003 and SQL Server > The conversion tool kit only reports on areas of concern that have to be > addressed later by the Upsizing wizard (available from Tools Database > Utilities menu) > Handy, if you have to fix a hundred reports. > Have a look at this article by Susan, to help you decide whether to go > with ADP or MDB Access 2003 front ends. > > Using Access to build a front end for SQL Server > http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-6329-5065669.html?fromtm=e056 > > One major question to be addressed is your client buying a license for > SQL Server or are you going to use MSDE 2000. > And is your client savvy enough to handle SQL backups and restore or are > you going to write all the code to make this transparent.. > > If using MSDE 2000, the client may not have the use of SQL Enterprise > Manager. > So you may have to use something like this freebie from a Microsoft MVP > DBA Manager 2K to handle user security and backup etc. > http://www.asql.biz/DbaMgr.shtm > There is a new version of MSDE 2000 called SQL Server Express that is in > Beta just now. > It will get around the 5 user throttling problem, allows 4 Gig database > with enhanced security. > It will also come with its own version of EM but that hasn't been > released yet. > You might want to pick up this book too > SQL: Access to SQL Server by Susan Sales Harkins, Martin W.P. Reid > > Barbara Ryan wrote: > > >I need to convert an Access 97 application (w/ front end and back end databases) to Access 2003. I downloaded Microsoft's Conversion Toolkit to help with this process (which I have not yet started). > > > >My client has also asked me to check into converting the application to SQL Server. I believe that there are utilities to convert Access back end data to SQL Server. Is this correct? Will the front end database need to be modified as well to access SQL Server data? > > > >Thanks, > >Barb Ryan > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun Aug 22 09:04:02 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 07:04:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation References: <01a401c486e7$4ebdb780$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <005001c48850$e11a87b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Arthur: Seems like code would be the fastest way. Set up a table with as many fields as there are records in the current table. Create the first record in the new table as the dates of the old table. The first field in each record of the new table would be the field name of the column in the old table. Then loop through the first table sorting the data into the records of the new table. The report would then just be a mirror of the new table. I use this 'temp table' approach all the time for complex reports instead of fooling around trying to get complex queries to do it. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "AccessD" Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 11:55 AM Subject: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation > I have a table with a bunch of columns containing numeric values, most > of them recording tons, a few recording values, and one recording the > last day of a given month. There may be 10 years of data. Each month is > represented by one row using its last day as the identifier. Then we > have a bunch of columns whose values come from a collection of tables > (i.e. sales figures, production figures, etc.). Some of the values are > input by (alleged) humans. > > For example (these are just a few of said columns) > > Opening Stocks -- numeric > Working Stocks -- stock on hand to cover emergencies (plant shutdown, > worker strike, machine breakdown etc.) > Production -- numbers derived from a table sent to my client by the > producer (in this case a mine) > > There are a couple of dozen such columns. > > Now, to my question. I need to present this data in a sort-of > spreadsheet format, wherein every column (save the date) is presented as > a row, and the values are presented in the appropriate Year/Month > column, so that the result looks like this: > > Jan 2005 Feb 2005 Mar 2005 etc. > Opening Stocks 6843 6829 etc. > Working Stocks 5500 5500 etc. > Production 10572 10121 etc. > > I've been playing around with the crosstab wizard, at which I am no > expert, but it doesn't seem to be giving me what I want. The PivotTable > wizard is closer to what I need, and quite powerful, but I still can't > get exactly what I want. > > Any ideas? Maybe I have to do it all in code? Or maybe I just need to > learn more about either the crosstab or the pivot-table wizard? > > TIA, > Arthur > > P.S. > This is an Access MDB not a SQL BE. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 22 09:15:21 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 10:15:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation In-Reply-To: <005001c48850$e11a87b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <20040822141521.DWYV1756.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Arthur, if it's a one-time deal, could you export to Excel and use the Transpose feature? Susan H. Arthur: Seems like code would be the fastest way. Set up a table with as many fields as there are records in the current table. Create the first record in the new table as the dates of the old table. The first field in each record of the new table would be the field name of the column in the old table. Then loop through the first table sorting the data into the records of the new table. The report would then just be a mirror of the new table. I use this 'temp table' approach all the time for complex reports instead of fooling around trying to get complex queries to do it. From artful at rogers.com Sun Aug 22 19:51:59 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:51:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Open a form in datasheet mode from switchboard In-Reply-To: <20040822141521.DWYV1756.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <006a01c488ab$657d4470$6601a8c0@rock> How do I open a form in datasheet mode from the standard switchboard? What I CAN do is write a one-line sub and call it instead: DoCmd.OpenForm "Position_frm_ds", acFormDS This works fine, but it seems pointless to write a one-line sub that executes this. Can I avoid this and somehow pass a parameter to the "Open Form in Edit Mode" option instead? No big deal, really. I just have to write a one-liner, and I already have, but still it seems a bit stupid to do so. TIA, Arthur From artful at rogers.com Sun Aug 22 20:48:00 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:48:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation In-Reply-To: <005001c48850$e11a87b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <007201c488b3$3946c7c0$6601a8c0@rock> Maybe it would have been the fastest way for you, but I did it with a bunch of SQL queries and UNIONs (thanks BIG to Gustav for his assistance). The splendid side-effect of this approach is that a datasheet form based on the query automatically includes future columns! Beauty! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 10:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation Arthur: Seems like code would be the fastest way. Set up a table with as many fields as there are records in the current table. Create the first record in the new table as the dates of the old table. The first field in each record of the new table would be the field name of the column in the old table. Then loop through the first table sorting the data into the records of the new table. The report would then just be a mirror of the new table. I use this 'temp table' approach all the time for complex reports instead of fooling around trying to get complex queries to do it. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 23 03:38:16 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 01:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! In-Reply-To: <446DDE75CFC7E1438061462F85557B0F0481EA19@remail2.westat.com> Message-ID: <20040823083816.49218.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> thnx, tried all that. Didn't solve the problem. Francis Harvey wrote:Sander, Check the Window menu to see if you can Unhide any windows. If not, bad screen location perhaps? Click one of the Tile options to see if the window gets resized and placed in a visible location. Francis R Harvey III WB 303, (301)294-3952 harveyf1 at westat.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 3:38 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! > > > Hi group, > > it's been a long while since I visited this list, furtunatly > it was because of a .NET project > > But now business as usual. I need convert an A2K to A2k2. > Everything went great. Got some warnings due to the misareble > code but it worked great. Except for 1 thing: > I cannot seem to open, see the database container!? Qua pasa? > > I've checked security settings, "hide databasecontainer" > option (dunno the exact name), hit F11 (is it still F11 in > A2k2) started the BE holding down shift while double clicking > the file, checked that there's no code to disable the shift > => NOTHING. > > So I need to migrate a A2k database (FE+BE) on WinNT4 to A2k2 > on WinXP. > > Any ideas why I do not see the database window? > > Tia, > > Sander -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! From accessd667 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 23 03:41:36 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 01:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040823084136.19257.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> I can indeed do everything I want using the menu. Do you perhaps have some code I code use to show the database window? For my understanding. If I can see the database container in an AXP database what can you conclude from that? TIA Sander Charlotte Foust wrote: Have you tried creating a new AXP database and importing all the objects rom the other one? Can you see the database window in that? It sounds like you can get into the code module, so have you tried writing some code to show the database window? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:38 PM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! Hi group, it's been a long while since I visited this list, furtunatly it was because of a .NET project But now business as usual. I need convert an A2K to A2k2. Everything went great. Got some warnings due to the misareble code but it worked great. Except for 1 thing: I cannot seem to open, see the database container!? Qua pasa? I've checked security settings, "hide databasecontainer" option (dunno the exact name), hit F11 (is it still F11 in A2k2) started the BE holding down shift while double clicking the file, checked that there's no code to disable the shift => NOTHING. So I need to migrate a A2k database (FE+BE) on WinNT4 to A2k2 on WinXP. Any ideas why I do not see the database window? Tia, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Mon Aug 23 05:14:26 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:14:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Message-ID: Hi John Sorry to be so long in replying. We had a big server crash. Your memo field idea seems to be exactly it. Instead of copying just the structure and appending, desperation had me replace the most suspect memo with a text field instead - and suddenly it was a friendly table, happy to be copied a million times. That's a quirk I won't forget in a hurry. Many thanks, John. Thanks too to Messrs Marty Connelly, Joe Hecht, jim dettman, and John Bartow. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: 17 August 2004 17:17 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Are there any memo fields in the table? If so that may be the problem, memos get corrupted. If that is the case it is one or more specific memos (specific records). The easiest way to determine is to create the table structure only (empty) in another db then append all the records to that table. If there are corrupt memos the copy will fail. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. etc etc --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From jimdettman at earthlink.net Mon Aug 23 08:27:02 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:27:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! In-Reply-To: <20040819073743.27941.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It's probably scrolled off the visible portion of the screen. Open the database with he shift key held down. Do you get a blank window? Are there scroll bars? If yes, then scroll all the way to the bottom, then to the right slowly. It's usually hanging out somewhere along the bottom edge of the window. Jim Dettman (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 3:38 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! Hi group, it's been a long while since I visited this list, furtunatly it was because of a .NET project But now business as usual. I need convert an A2K to A2k2. Everything went great. Got some warnings due to the misareble code but it worked great. Except for 1 thing: I cannot seem to open, see the database container!? Qua pasa? I've checked security settings, "hide databasecontainer" option (dunno the exact name), hit F11 (is it still F11 in A2k2) started the BE holding down shift while double clicking the file, checked that there's no code to disable the shift => NOTHING. So I need to migrate a A2k database (FE+BE) on WinNT4 to A2k2 on WinXP. Any ideas why I do not see the database window? Tia, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rmoore at comtechpst.com Mon Aug 23 10:02:26 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:02:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Message-ID: <002401c48922$33db4d00$6214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> To all, I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one of my queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in Expression'. I am told it was a full blown install of A2K, but something appears to be missing. Any ideas? TIA, as always, Ron From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 23 10:32:54 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:32:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: In-Reply-To: <002401c48922$33db4d00$6214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> References: <002401c48922$33db4d00$6214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <1420941992.20040823173254@cactus.dk> Hi Ron This is an old bug that may not have been solved yet: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;225956 /gustav > I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the > expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one of my > queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in Expression'. I am > told it was a full blown install of A2K, but something appears to be > missing. > Any ideas? > TIA, as always, > Ron From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 23 11:13:19 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:13:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access In-Reply-To: <002401c48922$33db4d00$6214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <010501c4892c$1b45c4a0$6601a8c0@rock> Is there any way to replace the straight-vertical apostrophes and quotation marks that Access uses with the curly ones that Word uses? I've tried to export a report in Times Roman to Word and they come in vertical. Yet when I type within that document I get the curly variety? Obviously the ANSI codes are different, so a wildcard find-and-replace could do it, if I could figure out how to tell Word to perform that kind of find-and-replace. Does anyone know how to do that in Word? TIA, Arthur From garykjos at hotmail.com Mon Aug 23 11:42:19 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:42:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Message-ID: I do not recognise "MonthName" as a standard built in Access function. Perhaps its from some kind of add-in library you use? I would normally obtain a month's name using the Format function with a "mmmm" parameter. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Ron Moore" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: >Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:02:26 -0400 > >To all, > >I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the >expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one of my >queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in Expression'. I >am >told it was a full blown install of A2K, but something appears to be >missing. > >Any ideas? >TIA, as always, >Ron >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Mon Aug 23 14:42:42 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:42:42 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0ADAFB@stekelbes.ithelps.local> That probably a missing reference. Check the VBA references at your customers computer. Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ron Moore Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 5:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: To all, I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one of my queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in Expression'. I am told it was a full blown install of A2K, but something appears to be missing. Any ideas? TIA, as always, Ron -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 23 15:20:15 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:20:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] EXCEL 2002: How do I user/simulate a Timer event in Excel form References: Message-ID: <412A517F.3020908@shaw.ca> You might want to post the Excel question here or look through archives http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/excel-g.html John Fejsa wrote: >Hi Everyone > >I have a very long import procedure that's executed from a menu option. >I would like to open an "Import" message form and animate a file flying >from one side of the form (one folder) to the other side (another >folder) until the import is completed. I can easily do it with other >applications but find very hard to do with Excel forms, for example when >I use Microsoft Access, I use a Timer event and move the file >fractionally every few seconds to simulate the movement. However, Excel >forms do not appear to have Timer events like Access or VB. > >I tried to simulate a time event with Excel form but without success; >can anyone help? > >I tried various methods with Excel but none worked. >"Application.OnTime" looks promising but it does not work for me. Below >is one method I used to test the procedure (while testing I just tried >to show one image and hide another). Rather then having " BlinkMover" >procedure executing every second as expected, the procedure acually >executes only once (only when the calling "OpenSession" procedure is >finished; defeats the reason for using the timer...) > >Any help would be greatly appreciated. > >Global variable >=========== >Public fBlinkMover As Boolean 'used with OPSES form to indicate whether >to blink >Public dTime 'Used to set time when to fire BlinkMover Procedure > >Procedures >========= >Public Sub OpenSession() > > strFileToOpen = Application.GetOpenFilename("Workbook (*.xls), >*.xls", , "Open your existing AIP session") > > If strFileToOpen <> False Then > >'BLINKING procedure start > >'START Blinking > fBlinkMover = True 'Start BLINKING > OPSES.Show 'Opne OPSES form - this form only has two >images at the moment (imgPic1 and imgPic2 > DoEvents > dTime = Now + TimeValue("00:00:01") 'Set time to one >second from now > Application.OnTime dTime, "BlinkMover" 'Instruct the >application to run "BlinkMover" procedure one second from now > >...Do other work here... > > Workbooks.Open Filename:=strFileToOpen > > Sheets("Original_data").Select > >*Deleted code to make the procedure shorter for this email >*Etc, etc, etc... > >'STOP Blinking > fBlinkMover = False 'Stop BLINKING - this will also stop >BlinkMover procedure calling itself > OPSES.Hide 'Hide OPSES form > >'BLINKING procedure stop > > Sheets("Results").Select > > MsgBox ("AIP session has now been opened") > > Else > 'User did not open > End If > > >End Sub > > >Public Sub BlinkMover() > If fBlinkMover Then 'Only execute if fBlinkMover is set to TRUE > opses!imgPic1.Visible = Not opses!imgPic2.Visible >'Reverse visiblitiy (Show/Hide) > opses!imgPic2.Visible = Not opses!imgPic1.Visible >'Reverse visiblitiy (Show/Hide) > opses.Repaint > DoEvents > dTime = Now + TimeValue("00:00:01") 'Add another second >to dTime > Application.OnTime dTime, "BlinkMover" 'Call BlinkMover >procedure again in one second > End If >End Sub > > >Thanks for your suggestions. > >John Fejsa >Senior Systems Analyst/Computer Programmer >Hunter Population Health >Locked Bag 10, WALLSEND NSW 2287 >Phone: (02) 4924 6336 Fax: (02) 4924 6209 >john.fejsa at hunter.health.nsw.gov.au >www.hcha.org.au > >The doors we open and close each day decide the lives we live. > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon Aug 23 18:36:40 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:36:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook Message-ID: <001e01c4896a$0adef8a0$4a619a89@DDICK> Hello all What a bugger of a week. My laptop died but the IT guy backed up all my Outlook Mail just before the hard drive finally gave in. Problem is...I used outlook express - Lost the lot So I have lost my totally awesome and excellent personal stash of AccessD Emails that I refer to constantly, built up over 5 years Not to mention all the personal pictures etc of the Wife and family Anyway back to Access. I need to speak with Outlook (The real Outlook not Express) to auto create appointments in Outlook once I put 'em into an access dB that we use here for resource scheduling Any suggestions? Also on a bit of a personal slant - Can y'all send me some Outlook links (Slipstick was one I can remember)Oh yeah - I lost my favourites too. So can y'all send me some of your favourites (offline to d.dick at uws.edu.au) Many thanks Have a great day Darren From mike at welshfam.org Mon Aug 23 20:02:34 2004 From: mike at welshfam.org (Michael Welsh) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:02:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Open a form in datasheet mode from switchboard In-Reply-To: <006a01c488ab$657d4470$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <200408240102.i7O12nQ01899@databaseadvisors.com> Arthur, I alter the code in the menu for the switchboard's HandleButtonClick Function" 'Add Constant the list Const conCmdOpenFormDataSheet = 2 Then under the Select Cases add a new case: Case conCmdOpenFormDataSheet DoCmd.OpenForm strMenuArgument, View:=acFormDS You will have to look for the "strMenuArgument" that is being used in the code. I have forgotten what variable that the original code used. It will be the same as the other cases. Then in the menu table, use 2 for the Command. Mike -----Original Message----- How do I open a form in datasheet mode from the standard switchboard? What I CAN do is write a one-line sub and call it instead: DoCmd.OpenForm "Position_frm_ds", acFormDS This works fine, but it seems pointless to write a one-line sub that executes this. Can I avoid this and somehow pass a parameter to the "Open Form in Edit Mode" option instead? No big deal, really. I just have to write a one-liner, and I already have, but still it seems a bit stupid to do so. TIA, Arthur From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Aug 23 23:30:29 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:30:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access In-Reply-To: <010501c4892c$1b45c4a0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Hi Arthur: It would be very difficult because it depends on the particular font you are using and some do not support the two types of quotes. In addition, it would be difficult to manage the correct replacing of forward and backward quotes. Word handles some of these issues by imbedding the actual font tables in the document. I would try and scan through an actual document that has the appropriate quotes marks, save the numeric values. Then use these quote mark constants, build a class that opens and edit the newly created document's vertical quotes. If it sounds a little too labour intensive some other bright individual from the list may have a better solution. HTH Jim PS I have a class that reads any size of document and of course is not designed for replacing quotes but with a little ingenuity.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 9:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access Is there any way to replace the straight-vertical apostrophes and quotation marks that Access uses with the curly ones that Word uses? I've tried to export a report in Times Roman to Word and they come in vertical. Yet when I type within that document I get the curly variety? Obviously the ANSI codes are different, so a wildcard find-and-replace could do it, if I could figure out how to tell Word to perform that kind of find-and-replace. Does anyone know how to do that in Word? TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From viner at eunet.yu Tue Aug 24 03:21:14 2004 From: viner at eunet.yu (Ervin Brindza) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:21:14 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access References: <010501c4892c$1b45c4a0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <007201c489b3$55c76a20$0100a8c0@razvoj> I need to replace graphic objects in .doc file with nothing! Anyone? Ervin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: 23 August, 2004 6:13 PM Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access > Is there any way to replace the straight-vertical apostrophes and > quotation marks that Access uses with the curly ones that Word uses? > I've tried to export a report in Times Roman to Word and they come in > vertical. Yet when I type within that document I get the curly variety? > Obviously the ANSI codes are different, so a wildcard find-and-replace > could do it, if I could figure out how to tell Word to perform that kind > of find-and-replace. Does anyone know how to do that in Word? > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 24 05:46:26 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:46:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook Message-ID: Hi Darren You have my every empathy. Some excellent coding and ideas for Outlook is on Martin Green's excellent site - www.fontstuff.com. If you are obliged to use Office, this is a site to bookmark. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: 24 August 2004 00:37 To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook Hello all What a bugger of a week. My laptop died but the IT guy backed up all my Outlook Mail just before the hard drive finally gave in. Problem is...I used outlook express - Lost the lot So I have lost my totally awesome and excellent personal stash of AccessD Emails that I refer to constantly, built up over 5 years Not to mention all the personal pictures etc of the Wife and family Anyway back to Access. I need to speak with Outlook (The real Outlook not Express) to auto create appointments in Outlook once I put 'em into an access dB that we use here for resource scheduling Any suggestions? Also on a bit of a personal slant - Can y'all send me some Outlook links (Slipstick was one I can remember)Oh yeah - I lost my favourites too. So can y'all send me some of your favourites (offline to d.dick at uws.edu.au) Many thanks Have a great day Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From lchristian at massmutual.com Tue Aug 24 06:49:21 2004 From: lchristian at massmutual.com (lchristian) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:49:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ@isimevip01.private.massmutual.com> MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from lchristian at massmutual.com The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 EDT4 ...................................................................... Need help picking up your Secure E-mail? * If the Web address above is highlighted, click on it to open a browser window. You will automatically be taken to the secure e-mail. * If the Web address above is not highlighted, follow these steps: - Open a Web browser window. - Copy and paste the entire Web address into the "location" or "address" bar of the browser. - Press enter. * Still having trouble? - Please send an e-mail to mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Aug 24 07:27:29 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:27:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] DrWatson error in msaccopt.exe Message-ID: <20040824122727.053DB2542BC@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Hi all One of our workstations (W2K Pro and the db is A97) has just caused a DrWatson event 4097 "the application msaccopt.exe generated an application error....". Didn't crash or do anything the user noticed but I'm a bit worried cos one of the two google finds on this was associated with MDb corruption when running A97 on W2K (like me). So I've no idea what caused it, no idea if it's important and, oddly, the machine doesn't even have an msaccopt.exe anywhere (and neither do the W98 machines). Any clues anyone? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Aug 24 07:31:35 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:31:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook Message-ID: <20040824123132.E6CE1255AED@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Hi Darren Bummer about you stuff. When I get in tonight I'll email you a zip of all my Access and Outlook favourites. Never created appointments though. All my work's on A97 but folks keep sayinmg that A2K onwards you can just create a link to an Outlook database. But whether that makes it any easier to create appointments I've no idea. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook Date: 24/08/04 11:49 > > Hi Darren > You have my every empathy. Some excellent coding and ideas for Outlook is on > Martin Green's excellent site - www.fontstuff.com. If you are obliged to use > Office, this is a site to bookmark. All the best > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: 24 August 2004 00:37 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook > > > > Hello all > What a bugger of a week. My laptop died but the IT guy backed up all my > Outlook Mail just before the hard drive finally gave in. Problem is...I > used outlook express - Lost the lot <sigh> > > So I have lost my totally awesome and excellent personal stash of AccessD > Emails that I refer to constantly, built up over 5 years <bigger sigh> > > Not to mention all the personal pictures etc of the Wife and > family <head in hands in despair> > > Anyway back to Access. I need to speak with Outlook (The real Outlook not > Express) to auto create appointments in Outlook once I put 'em into an > access dB that we use here for resource scheduling > > Any suggestions? > > Also on a bit of a personal slant - Can y'all send me some Outlook links > (Slipstick was one I can remember)Oh yeah - I lost my favourites too. So can > y'all send me some of your favourites (offline to d.dick at uws.edu.au) > > Many thanks > > Have a great day > > Darren > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 24 08:01:52 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:01:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2E7@main2.marlow.com> Sorry to hear about the crash. Hopefully this will help: http://www.marlow.com/AccessDArchive.zip That's my .pst file going back to 2001 (up until a few weeks ago....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 6:37 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook Hello all What a bugger of a week. My laptop died but the IT guy backed up all my Outlook Mail just before the hard drive finally gave in. Problem is...I used outlook express - Lost the lot So I have lost my totally awesome and excellent personal stash of AccessD Emails that I refer to constantly, built up over 5 years Not to mention all the personal pictures etc of the Wife and family Anyway back to Access. I need to speak with Outlook (The real Outlook not Express) to auto create appointments in Outlook once I put 'em into an access dB that we use here for resource scheduling Any suggestions? Also on a bit of a personal slant - Can y'all send me some Outlook links (Slipstick was one I can remember)Oh yeah - I lost my favourites too. So can y'all send me some of your favourites (offline to d.dick at uws.edu.au) Many thanks Have a great day Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rmoore at comtechpst.com Tue Aug 24 08:38:25 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:38:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: In-Reply-To: <1420941992.20040823173254@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001401c489df$a4be8c40$7214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Thanks Gustav! I was beating my head against the wall. Since it seems there was a lapse in mail yesterday, I tried some string manipulation and nested IIFs, but it got ugly quick. So I just created a static table (1-12 with month names) and used the Month function and linked to the lookup table. Probably not the best solution, but time was of the essence. Thanks Again, Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 11:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Hi Ron This is an old bug that may not have been solved yet: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;225956 /gustav > I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the > expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one > of my queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in > Expression'. I am told it was a full blown install of A2K, but > something appears to be missing. > Any ideas? > TIA, as always, > Ron -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mgauk at btconnect.com Tue Aug 24 08:52:47 2004 From: mgauk at btconnect.com (MG) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:52:47 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: In-Reply-To: <001401c489df$a4be8c40$7214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <200408241352.i7ODquQ32713@databaseadvisors.com> Ron, I may have the wrong end of the stick here, but if you want month names then just use the format function, viz. ? format(date,"mmmm") gives August ? format(date,"mmm") gives Aug Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ron Moore Sent: 24 August 2004 14:38 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Thanks Gustav! I was beating my head against the wall. Since it seems there was a lapse in mail yesterday, I tried some string manipulation and nested IIFs, but it got ugly quick. So I just created a static table (1-12 with month names) and used the Month function and linked to the lookup table. Probably not the best solution, but time was of the essence. Thanks Again, Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 11:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Hi Ron This is an old bug that may not have been solved yet: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;225956 /gustav > I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the > expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one > of my queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in > Expression'. I am told it was a full blown install of A2K, but > something appears to be missing. > Any ideas? > TIA, as always, > Ron -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue Aug 24 09:02:50 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:02:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: My curiosity is getting the better of me...has anyone clicked on this link;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: lchristian [mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from lchristian at massmutual.com The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 EDT4 ...................................................................... Need help picking up your Secure E-mail? * If the Web address above is highlighted, click on it to open a browser window. You will automatically be taken to the secure e-mail. * If the Web address above is not highlighted, follow these steps: - Open a Web browser window. - Copy and paste the entire Web address into the "location" or "address" bar of the browser. - Press enter. * Still having trouble? - Please send an e-mail to mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From LChristian at MassMutual.com Tue Aug 24 09:09:44 2004 From: LChristian at MassMutual.com (Christian, Lorraine) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:09:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9DEC@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> Good morning, I would like to develop a very simple database for a small business. To start off I believe I need a customer table and an invoice table. The customer table will have basic customer information and a CustomerID that is an autonumber. The invoice table will have billing information and an InvoiceID that is an autonumber. First question, can you customize autonumbers? For example I want my first customer to have an ID of 0001 and my first invoice to have an ID of 2004. Second question, each record in the invoice table will be for every invoice that is sent out. I am stuck on how to handle late payments. I would like to charge 1.5% for over 30, 60 and 90 days. So for example. I send out a monthly invoice for customer 0001, he/she does not pay on time. I now need to send out a second invoice not only charging the customer for the current month, but also the payment that is overdue (last month). And what happens if the customer still does not pay and payments become 60 or 90 days past due? I am not quite sure how to design this table in order to handle what I am trying to accomplish. Finally, the actual invoice (report) has separate fields for current, 30 days, 60 days, etc. In addition to that I has a finance charge field. Originally I was going to do a simple calculation on the report for the finance charge. But after thinking about that, do you think I should permanently store the finance charge in the invoice table? If anyone would like to share with me any tips and/or a sample database I would really appreciate it. Thanks so much, Lorraine --------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. --------------------------------------------------------- From LChristian at MassMutual.com Tue Aug 24 09:10:45 2004 From: LChristian at MassMutual.com (Christian, Lorraine) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:10:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9DED@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> Hi there - Sorry about this. I keep forgetting that we have a new email system here at work. I sent the actual question again. Hope I did not cause any panic.... Lorraine -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Database for Small Business My curiosity is getting the better of me...has anyone clicked on this link;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: lchristian [mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from lchristian at massmutual.com The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 EDT4 ...................................................................... Need help picking up your Secure E-mail? * If the Web address above is highlighted, click on it to open a browser window. You will automatically be taken to the secure e-mail. * If the Web address above is not highlighted, follow these steps: - Open a Web browser window. - Copy and paste the entire Web address into the "location" or "address" bar of the browser. - Press enter. * Still having trouble? - Please send an e-mail to mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Aug 24 09:11:53 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:11:53 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <11078189.1093356713923.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Not me anyway Message date : Aug 24 2004, 03:09 PM >From : "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Database for Small Business My curiosity is getting the better of me...has anyone clicked on this link;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: lchristian [mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from lchristian at massmutual.com The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 EDT4 ...................................................................... Need help picking up your Secure E-mail? * If the Web address above is highlighted, click on it to open a browser window. You will automatically be taken to the secure e-mail. * If the Web address above is not highlighted, follow these steps: - Open a Web browser window. - Copy and paste the entire Web address into the "location" or "address" bar of the browser. - Press enter. * Still having trouble? - Please send an e-mail to mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Aug 24 09:13:33 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:13:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business References: Message-ID: <000e01c489e4$89efcf00$9111758f@aine> Yeah its an actual post. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 3:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Database for Small Business > My curiosity is getting the better of me...has anyone clicked on this link;) > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lchristian [mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business > > > > > MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from > lchristian at massmutual.com > > The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. > Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. > > > > https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ > > The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 > EDT4 > > > ...................................................................... > > Need help picking up your Secure E-mail? > > * If the Web address above is highlighted, click on it to open a > browser window. You will automatically be taken to the secure e-mail. > > * If the Web address above is not highlighted, follow these steps: > - Open a Web browser window. > - Copy and paste the entire Web address into the "location" or > "address" bar of the browser. > - Press enter. > > * Still having trouble? > - Please send an e-mail to mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com > > This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, > privileged > and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to > whom it is > addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person > other than > the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is > strictly > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, > please > notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From GregSmith at starband.net Tue Aug 24 09:18:21 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:18:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Code to Close Temp Module from Gustav In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1554.216.43.21.235.1093357101.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Gustav: Sorry it took so long, but that little code patch you posted on Friday to close the VBE window in AXP/03 worked. I don't have the email you posted here or I would reference it. The only change I had to make was to adapt it to the code in my "autoexecs()" module from the Macro example you wrote. Thanks again..it really helped!! Greg From rmoore at comtechpst.com Tue Aug 24 09:22:17 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:22:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c489e5$c5416590$7214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Gary, I don't know if it's 'standard', but I've always used 'Expression Name: MonthName(Month([anydate]),True)' successfully in the past. First time this didn't work for me. Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 12:42 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: I do not recognise "MonthName" as a standard built in Access function. Perhaps its from some kind of add-in library you use? I would normally obtain a month's name using the Format function with a "mmmm" parameter. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Ron Moore" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: >Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:02:26 -0400 > >To all, > >I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the >expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one of >my queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in >Expression'. I am told it was a full blown install of A2K, but >something appears to be missing. > >Any ideas? >TIA, as always, >Ron >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From LChristian at MassMutual.com Tue Aug 24 09:22:52 2004 From: LChristian at MassMutual.com (Christian, Lorraine) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:22:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9DEE@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> Hi there - Sorry about this. I keep forgetting that we have a new email system here at work. As you can see I sent the actual question again. Hope I did not cause any panic.... Lorraine -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Database for Small Business My curiosity is getting the better of me...has anyone clicked on this link;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: lchristian [mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from lchristian at massmutual.com The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 EDT4 ...................................................................... Need help picking up your Secure E-mail? * If the Web address above is highlighted, click on it to open a browser window. You will automatically be taken to the secure e-mail. * If the Web address above is not highlighted, follow these steps: - Open a Web browser window. - Copy and paste the entire Web address into the "location" or "address" bar of the browser. - Press enter. * Still having trouble? - Please send an e-mail to mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rmoore at comtechpst.com Tue Aug 24 09:25:38 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:25:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: In-Reply-To: <200408241352.i7ODquQ32713@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <001801c489e6$3d1b28d0$7214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Max, not the wrong end of the stick at all. I had simply always done it the other way (the function name was self explanatory) but will be changing to your approach for future work. Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MG Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Ron, I may have the wrong end of the stick here, but if you want month names then just use the format function, viz. ? format(date,"mmmm") gives August ? format(date,"mmm") gives Aug Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ron Moore Sent: 24 August 2004 14:38 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Thanks Gustav! I was beating my head against the wall. Since it seems there was a lapse in mail yesterday, I tried some string manipulation and nested IIFs, but it got ugly quick. So I just created a static table (1-12 with month names) and used the Month function and linked to the lookup table. Probably not the best solution, but time was of the essence. Thanks Again, Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 11:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Hi Ron This is an old bug that may not have been solved yet: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;225956 /gustav > I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the > expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one > of my queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in > Expression'. I am told it was a full blown install of A2K, but > something appears to be missing. > Any ideas? > TIA, as always, > Ron -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From LChristian at MassMutual.com Tue Aug 24 09:26:10 2004 From: LChristian at MassMutual.com (Christian, Lorraine) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:26:10 -0400 Subject: Recall: RE: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9DEF@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> Christian, Lorraine would like to recall the message, "Unsecure RE: [AccessD] Database for Small Business". --------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. --------------------------------------------------------- From lchristian at massmutual.com Tue Aug 24 09:34:01 2004 From: lchristian at massmutual.com (lchristian) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:34:01 -0400 Subject: Recall: RE: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <4-863917-472477-NC52W228@isimevip01.private.massmutual.com> MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from lchristian at massmutual.com The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-863917-472477-NC52W228 The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 10:34:48 EDT4 ...................................................................... Need help picking up your Secure E-mail? * If the Web address above is highlighted, click on it to open a browser window. You will automatically be taken to the secure e-mail. * If the Web address above is not highlighted, follow these steps: - Open a Web browser window. - Copy and paste the entire Web address into the "location" or "address" bar of the browser. - Press enter. * Still having trouble? - Please send an e-mail to mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. From artful at rogers.com Tue Aug 24 10:01:40 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:01:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: In-Reply-To: <001801c489e6$3d1b28d0$7214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <00e901c489eb$43437230$6601a8c0@rock> Alternatively you might define the function yourself, calling the format() function to shape the data the way you like. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ron Moore Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Max, not the wrong end of the stick at all. I had simply always done it the other way (the function name was self explanatory) but will be changing to your approach for future work. Ron From reuben at gfconsultants.com Tue Aug 24 10:19:18 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:19:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook In-Reply-To: <001e01c4896a$0adef8a0$4a619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: This very thing is covered in the September issue of Access-VB-SQL Advisor Document # 14450 Unfortunately, I don't have a login to get the download from the website; I only have the print version. That doesn't help a lot, but maybe someone can get it for you. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 6:37 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook > > > > Hello all > What a bugger of a week. My laptop died but the IT guy backed up all my > Outlook Mail just before the hard drive finally gave in. Problem is...I > used outlook express - Lost the lot > > So I have lost my totally awesome and excellent personal stash of AccessD > Emails that I refer to constantly, built up over 5 years > > Not to mention all the personal pictures etc of the Wife and > family > > Anyway back to Access. I need to speak with Outlook (The real Outlook not > Express) to auto create appointments in Outlook once I put 'em into an > access dB that we use here for resource scheduling > > Any suggestions? > > Also on a bit of a personal slant - Can y'all send me some Outlook links > (Slipstick was one I can remember)Oh yeah - I lost my favourites > too. So can > y'all send me some of your favourites (offline to d.dick at uws.edu.au) > > Many thanks > > Have a great day > > Darren > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 24 11:10:40 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:10:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2F3@main2.marlow.com> Welcome to the List Lorraine. Oh, the days when a database could remain simple! Okay, to your first question, no, you cannot modify the actual Autonumber field to display '0001'. However, you can take 1, and have it displayed as '0001'. If if the Autonumber field is CustomerID then in the report, display it in a text box with this: =String("0",4-Len("" & [CustomerID])) & [CustomerID] As for setting an Autonumber to 2004, you can do this. There are several methods, probably the easiest is an Append Query: INSERT INTO tblInvoices ([InvoiceID]) VALUES(2003) run that, and you'll have a new record with the ID at 2003. Delete that record (but do not compact the database), and the next Invoice you put in will start at 2004. (Once you have added a record, you can compact the database, and the Autonumber will continue using the next larger number after the current one.) As for the late fee, that would be a calculation, no real reason to store the value in your tables. Instead, have a Payments Received table, and then build a query that lists Invoices Not listed in the Payments received table, along with using the current date compared against a third 'Late Charges' table, to calculate how much the penalties have added up. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Christian, Lorraine Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:10 AM To: Accessd at Databaseadvisors. Com (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Good morning, I would like to develop a very simple database for a small business. To start off I believe I need a customer table and an invoice table. The customer table will have basic customer information and a CustomerID that is an autonumber. The invoice table will have billing information and an InvoiceID that is an autonumber. First question, can you customize autonumbers? For example I want my first customer to have an ID of 0001 and my first invoice to have an ID of 2004. Second question, each record in the invoice table will be for every invoice that is sent out. I am stuck on how to handle late payments. I would like to charge 1.5% for over 30, 60 and 90 days. So for example. I send out a monthly invoice for customer 0001, he/she does not pay on time. I now need to send out a second invoice not only charging the customer for the current month, but also the payment that is overdue (last month). And what happens if the customer still does not pay and payments become 60 or 90 days past due? I am not quite sure how to design this table in order to handle what I am trying to accomplish. Finally, the actual invoice (report) has separate fields for current, 30 days, 60 days, etc. In addition to that I has a finance charge field. Originally I was going to do a simple calculation on the report for the finance charge. But after thinking about that, do you think I should permanently store the finance charge in the invoice table? If anyone would like to share with me any tips and/or a sample database I would really appreciate it. Thanks so much, Lorraine --------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. --------------------------------------------------------- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Tue Aug 24 11:50:59 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:50:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place In-Reply-To: <391ph9$69d623@mxip02a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: All is well. For some reason, there were about 1/2 dozen that didn't deconstruct, but I fixed them by hand. They had some unusual things going on that wouldn't be typical, so I'm not going to figure out how to have made them work right. Thanks for the help, Drew. I really appreciate it! -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn > Bassett > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:42 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Works but... Got message at work just before I left and followed > your suggestions. It does the update but my results don't look > right on first glance. Didn't have time to see what is going on. > I'm going to try to work on it here at home today or tomorrow to > see if my first glance at results was playing games or now. > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: 17 Aug 2004 12:59 pm > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > Name the module modSplitDeathPlace. Having the module, and > > function, with the same name, is what is kicking up that error. > > > > Also, I just ran the code against the copy I had...change the > > code to this: > > > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) > > As String Dim strArray() As String strArray = Split(strPlace, > > ",") If intPos > UBound(strArray) Then > > SplitDeathPlace = "" > > Else > > SplitDeathPlace = Trim(strArray(intPos)) End If End Function > > > > That should handle any issues that pop up. > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > KathrynAtGwens > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:01 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > > > I'm doing something wrong. > > I clicked on Modules and then on New. I pasted in the > > Function code. Named the module SplitDeathPlace. Compiled it. > > Saved it. First indication something not right is that when > > I'm back at Modules, the SplitDeathPlace doesn't show up. But > > when I click on new again, it is there. > > http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessmodulesplitdeathplace.jpg > > > > Thinking that there is a reason it's not showing, I go on to > > next step and make an (update) query. > > http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessquerysplitdeathplace.jpg > > When I try to run it, I get: > > Undefined function 'SplitDeathPlace' in expression > > > > Does not showing on the main screen right panel when clicking > > on modules on main screen left panel have anything to do with this? > > > > This is the first module I've made, so maybe how I did it was wrong? > > > > -- > > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:04 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > > > > > > Then put this in a module: > > > > > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As > > Long) AS String > > > Dim strArray() As String strArray=Split(strPlace,", ") > > > SplitDeathPlace=strArray(intPos) > > > End Function > > > > > > And in your query, put the following for DeathCity: > > > > > > SplitDeathPlace([DeathPlace],0) > > > > > > Replace the 0 with 1 for deathcounty, and 2 for deathstate > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn > > > Bassett > > > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:57 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > > > > > > Yes > > > > > > -- > > > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my > > bag" "GH is > > > my soap" > > > kathryn at bassett.net > > > http://bassett.net > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > > > > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Tue Aug 24 12:01:12 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:01:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] [OT - Slightly] Training sceduling In-Reply-To: <412A517F.3020908@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <000601c489fb$f57998c0$120d6bd5@netboxxp> Hi folks A colleague of mine is looking for some software (preferably Access based) that will allow him to schedule training courses. There are about 300 odd courses which all have related documentaion, possible trainers, venues, attendees etc. He is looking to manage all aspects of the training courses from one place. I am trying to steer clear as I'm too busy to be of any use, but if anyone knows of something "off the shelf" I'd be greatful for a recommend. I suggested they learned how to use Outlook properly but that seemed to cause a few frowns for some reason... Any help much appreciated Cheers Mark --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 22/07/2004 From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Tue Aug 24 13:18:49 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:18:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ALTER TABLE in Access Message-ID: <005b01c48a06$cea0d460$2201a8c0@PASCAL> I have a table in Access where I want to increase field sizes of text fields. Here is my SQL: ALTER TABLE MyTable ALTER COLUMN Field1 Text(255) I want to do multiple fields but can't figure out the syntax to do it all in one ALTER TABLE statement, so I have to run multiple commands like this: ALTER TABLE MyTable ALTER COLUMN Field1 Text(255) ALTER TABLE MyTable ALTER COLUMN Field2 Text(255) etc.. Is there any way to do this under one ALTER TABLE statement? It's not a big deal, but I'd like to get this into one statement. TIA Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com From my.lists at verizon.net Tue Aug 24 13:23:45 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:23:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412B87B1.203@verizon.net> Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) wrote On 8/24/2004 7:02 AM: >My curiosity is getting the better of me...has anyone clicked on this link;) > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: lchristian [mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com] >Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business > > > > >MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from >lchristian at massmutual.com > >The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. >Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. > > > >https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ > >The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 >EDT4 > > > > have not, and haven't intended to, why anyone would send a secure message to a list is beyond me, especially w/ so many phishing scams going around. -- -Francisco From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 24 13:26:27 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:26:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ALTER TABLE in Access In-Reply-To: <005b01c48a06$cea0d460$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Message-ID: <20040824182626.CUHV1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Mark, I've never tried and never seen the syntax for doing so. I would try: ALTER TABLE MyTable ALTER COLUMN Field1 Text(255) , Field2 Text(xxx), Field3 Text(xxx)... Just a total guess though. Susan H. I have a table in Access where I want to increase field sizes of text fields. Here is my SQL: From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Tue Aug 24 13:53:41 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:53:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ALTER TABLE in Access References: <20040824182626.CUHV1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000801c48a0b$ae5cb0c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> I've tried that and various versions with and without commas, etc. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] ALTER TABLE in Access > Mark, I've never tried and never seen the syntax for doing so. > > I would try: > > ALTER TABLE MyTable ALTER COLUMN Field1 Text(255) , Field2 Text(xxx), Field3 > Text(xxx)... > > Just a total guess though. > > Susan H. > > I have a table in Access where I want to increase field sizes of text > fields. Here is my SQL: > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From LChristian at MassMutual.com Tue Aug 24 13:53:43 2004 From: LChristian at MassMutual.com (Christian, Lorraine) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:53:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business Message-ID: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9E00@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> Yes I definitely understand. I forgot that our email system changed. I was able to send one unsecure, I hope everyone can see that one. I hope I get some help :) -----Original Message----- From: ime_mailer.4-868094-474642-T4LIIXHL at isimevip01.private.massmutual.com [mailto:ime_mailer.4-868094-474642-T4LIIXHL at isimevip01.private.massmutua l.com]On Behalf Of accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:29 PM To: Christian, Lorraine Subject: Re: Database for Small Business Lorraine, you will probably get a better response if you "DONT" post a secure message that requires users to log into a 3rd party website. w/ so many phishing scams out there, I'm sure you can understand this position. "lchristian" wrote: > Message Redirected by Tumbleweed MMS. > > Original Recipients: > To: "Accessd at Databaseadvisors. Com (E-mail)" accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Cc: > > Good morning, > > I would like to develop a very simple database for a small business. > To start off I believe I need a customer table and an invoice table. > > The customer table will have basic customer information and > a CustomerID that is an autonumber. > > The invoice table will have billing information and an InvoiceID > that is an autonumber. > > First question, can you customize autonumbers? For > example I want my first customer to have an ID of 0001 > and my first invoice to have an ID of 2004. > > Second question, each record in the invoice table will be > for every invoice that is sent out. I am stuck on how to > handle late payments. I would like to charge 1.5% for > over 30, 60 and 90 days. > > So for example. I send out a monthly invoice for customer 0001, > he/she does not pay on time. I now need to send out a > second invoice not only charging the customer for the current > month, but also the payment that is overdue (last month). And what > happens if the customer still does not pay and payments become 60 or > 90 days past due? I am not quite sure how to design this table in order to handle > what I am trying to accomplish. > > Finally, the actual invoice (report) has separate fields for current, 30 days, 60 days, etc. In > addition to that I has a finance charge field. Originally I was going to do a simple > calculation on the report for the finance charge. But after thinking about that, do you > think I should permanently store the finance charge in the invoice table? > > If anyone would like to share with me any tips and/or a sample database I would > really appreciate it. > > Thanks so much, > > Lorraine > > --------------------------------------------------------- > This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. > > --------------------------------------------------------- > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 24 14:18:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:18:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2F5@main2.marlow.com> I replied to it, but haven't seen my post hit yet. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Christian, Lorraine Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business Yes I definitely understand. I forgot that our email system changed. I was able to send one unsecure, I hope everyone can see that one. I hope I get some help :) -----Original Message----- From: ime_mailer.4-868094-474642-T4LIIXHL at isimevip01.private.massmutual.com [mailto:ime_mailer.4-868094-474642-T4LIIXHL at isimevip01.private.massmutua l.com]On Behalf Of accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:29 PM To: Christian, Lorraine Subject: Re: Database for Small Business Lorraine, you will probably get a better response if you "DONT" post a secure message that requires users to log into a 3rd party website. w/ so many phishing scams out there, I'm sure you can understand this position. "lchristian" wrote: > Message Redirected by Tumbleweed MMS. > > Original Recipients: > To: "Accessd at Databaseadvisors. Com (E-mail)" accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Cc: > > Good morning, > > I would like to develop a very simple database for a small business. > To start off I believe I need a customer table and an invoice table. > > The customer table will have basic customer information and > a CustomerID that is an autonumber. > > The invoice table will have billing information and an InvoiceID > that is an autonumber. > > First question, can you customize autonumbers? For > example I want my first customer to have an ID of 0001 > and my first invoice to have an ID of 2004. > > Second question, each record in the invoice table will be > for every invoice that is sent out. I am stuck on how to > handle late payments. I would like to charge 1.5% for > over 30, 60 and 90 days. > > So for example. I send out a monthly invoice for customer 0001, > he/she does not pay on time. I now need to send out a > second invoice not only charging the customer for the current > month, but also the payment that is overdue (last month). And what > happens if the customer still does not pay and payments become 60 or > 90 days past due? I am not quite sure how to design this table in order to handle > what I am trying to accomplish. > > Finally, the actual invoice (report) has separate fields for current, 30 days, 60 days, etc. In > addition to that I has a finance charge field. Originally I was going to do a simple > calculation on the report for the finance charge. But after thinking about that, do you > think I should permanently store the finance charge in the invoice table? > > If anyone would like to share with me any tips and/or a sample database I would > really appreciate it. > > Thanks so much, > > Lorraine > > --------------------------------------------------------- > This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. > > --------------------------------------------------------- > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 24 15:30:59 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:30:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business In-Reply-To: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9E00@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> References: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9E00@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> Message-ID: Read inline... On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:53:43 -0400, Christian, Lorraine wrote: > > Good morning, > > > > I would like to develop a very simple database for a small business. > > To start off I believe I need a customer table and an invoice table. > > > > The customer table will have basic customer information and > > a CustomerID that is an autonumber. > > > > The invoice table will have billing information and an InvoiceID > > that is an autonumber. > > > > First question, can you customize autonumbers? For > > example I want my first customer to have an ID of 0001 > > and my first invoice to have an ID of 2004. yes you can customize it to be 0001 as display, Of the top of my head you should be able to just insert via an insert query an empty record where the PID (invoiceid) is 2003. so the next first real record will be 2004 but for all general purposes, you'll need to remember that Autonumbers follows the "surrogate key" rule, and therefore is meaningless, and you will have a difficult time keeping this number in sequence such as 0001,0002,0003 etc., instead it may be more reflective of: 0001,0003,0004,0006, 0007,0009 etc... that's because order number 0002 could have been canceledlike order 0005 and 0008. > > Second question, each record in the invoice table will be > > for every invoice that is sent out. I am stuck on how to > > handle late payments. I would like to charge 1.5% for > > over 30, 60 and 90 days. If you add a calculation field into your query you can get this number, that means that the value of this field will always change since it is dynamic. One option is to calculate the date from the invoice due date w/ the current date. which gives you the total number of days, then you can multiply your 1.5% times the remaining balance. A DateDiff Function seems the most appropriate for this task. such as iif(datediff("d","5/1/2004","8/24/2004",vbSunday,vbUseSystem)>30, , ) > > So for example. I send out a monthly invoice for customer 0001, > > he/she does not pay on time. I now need to send out a > > second invoice not only charging the customer for the current > > month, but also the payment that is overdue (last month). And what > > happens if the customer still does not pay and payments become 60 or > > 90 days past due? I am not quite sure how to design this table in > order to handle > > what I am trying to accomplish. Seems to me you'd want to work this out in a query with similar functions as outlined above. Additionally, I'm not one to step on your toes, but this kind of accounting can genarlly be handled by other programs like Quicken / Quickbooks etc. Is that not a viable option? > > Finally, the actual invoice (report) has separate fields for current, > 30 days, 60 days, etc. In > > addition to that I has a finance charge field. Originally I was going > to do a simple > > calculation on the report for the finance charge. But after thinking > about that, do you > > think I should permanently store the finance charge in the invoice > table? The finance charge for each cycle should be stored, but the calculation on the incurred cost need to be calculated on each run. (i would think, ymmv) Good luck. -- -Francisco From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 24 15:34:29 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:34:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed Message-ID: <02b601c48a19$c1743350$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the vowels. I fooled around with the different keyboards in the Regional Settings with no success. I'd like to keep my machine set to English. Is there a (relatively) simple solution? A tutorial someone can point me to? (Help has not been.) MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Tue Aug 24 16:37:33 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:37:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business Message-ID: OK. I'll bite. You can seed your starting numbers for autonumber fields. The most recommended way is to populate the table with one record via a append query that sets the value of the autonumber table with one less than you want for your first number. then you delete that record and the next record added to teh table will have the number you want..... BUT I think most developers here on list will agree that if you are particular about the numbers assigned, autonumbers are NOT the way to go. You need to create some code to determine what the last number on your system is at the time the new record is being formatted and then use that value for your field. Why? Autonumbers will often leave GAPS - if you start to add a record but then abort the process for whatever reason, the autonumber will still increment and a number will essentially be wasted. For non-visible key values this is no big deal at all. But for an invoice number, it may be a problem for you and your application as it will need to be explained to the accountants and auditors. Generally all an autonumber is supposed to get you is a UNIQUE value. yes, they are normally in a sequence but that is not guaranteed. If you want a sequential number you need to take control of the assignment of those numbers. Having the KEY to the invoice record be an autonumber is a good thing but you might be better off calculating an invoice number that will be displayed for the user yourself. Regarding your question about the additional charges for past due.....Why not add another invoice record? You could have a field that associates an invoice record with another invoice and then group and total by that at statement time? Or perhaps you need a different table for past due charges? It all depends on what you are planning to do with the data. Will there be additional charges if the invoice isn't paid for a second cycle????? Or is it a one time upcharge? If it's a one time deal you could just have an additional field on your invoice table for that charge. It's really up to you. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Christian, Lorraine" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business >Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:53:43 -0400 > >Yes I definitely understand. I forgot that our email system >changed. I was able to send one unsecure, I hope everyone can >see that one. I hope I get some help :) > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: >ime_mailer.4-868094-474642-T4LIIXHL at isimevip01.private.massmutual.com >[mailto:ime_mailer.4-868094-474642-T4LIIXHL at isimevip01.private.massmutua >l.com]On Behalf Of accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:29 PM >To: Christian, Lorraine >Subject: Re: Database for Small Business > > > Lorraine, you will probably get a better response if you "DONT" post a >secure message that requires users to log into a 3rd party website. w/ >so many phishing scams out there, I'm sure you can understand this >position. > >"lchristian" wrote: > > Message Redirected by Tumbleweed MMS. > > > > Original Recipients: > > To: "Accessd at Databaseadvisors. Com (E-mail)" >accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Cc: > > > > Good morning, > > > > I would like to develop a very simple database for a small business. > > To start off I believe I need a customer table and an invoice table. > > > > The customer table will have basic customer information and > > a CustomerID that is an autonumber. > > > > The invoice table will have billing information and an InvoiceID > > that is an autonumber. > > > > First question, can you customize autonumbers? For > > example I want my first customer to have an ID of 0001 > > and my first invoice to have an ID of 2004. > > > > Second question, each record in the invoice table will be > > for every invoice that is sent out. I am stuck on how to > > handle late payments. I would like to charge 1.5% for > > over 30, 60 and 90 days. > > > > So for example. I send out a monthly invoice for customer 0001, > > he/she does not pay on time. I now need to send out a > > second invoice not only charging the customer for the current > > month, but also the payment that is overdue (last month). And what > > happens if the customer still does not pay and payments become 60 or > > 90 days past due? I am not quite sure how to design this table in >order to handle > > what I am trying to accomplish. > > > > Finally, the actual invoice (report) has separate fields for current, >30 days, 60 days, etc. In > > addition to that I has a finance charge field. Originally I was going >to do a simple > > calculation on the report for the finance charge. But after thinking >about that, do you > > think I should permanently store the finance charge in the invoice >table? > > > > If anyone would like to share with me any tips and/or a sample >database I would > > really appreciate it. > > > > Thanks so much, > > > > Lorraine > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Aug 24 16:42:19 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:42:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed In-Reply-To: <02b601c48a19$c1743350$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a > terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the > vowels. Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut and paste. >From the Word Help: To insert Press ?, ?, ?, ?, ? ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter ?, ?, ?, ?, ? ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter ?, ?, ? ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O ?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D ?, ? CTRL+/, o or O ? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? ? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! -- Stuart From vze28ztx at verizon.net Tue Aug 24 16:58:38 2004 From: vze28ztx at verizon.net (Mary Davis) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:58:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Apostrophes & Quotations, replacing in Word References: <200408241520.i7OFK6Q15581@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <412BBA0E.5040003@verizon.net> May I take a stab at this? Unless I'm missing something, this might be rather easy. In Word, under "Edit", "Replace", you can select "Special" (at the bottom of the dialogue box), and there you can select "Graphic". This may depend on the version you're using. I've got XP here. I think this will select *all* graphics. I don't know that you could specify only some graphics in a doc. > > > > I need to replace graphic objects in .doc file with nothing! Anyone? > Ervin From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 24 16:56:30 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:56:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed References: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Stuart: Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the mdb where I have to key all this Spanish. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > > > I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a > > terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the > > vowels. > > Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut and > paste. > > >From the Word Help: > To insert Press > ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter > > ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter > > ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter > > ?, ?, ? > ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter > ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > > ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, Y CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter > > ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A > > ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A > > o, O CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O > > ?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C > > ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D > > ?, ? CTRL+/, o or O > > ? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? > > ? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! > -- > Stuart > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Aug 24 17:31:41 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:31:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed In-Reply-To: <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <412C4E6D.21138.376D1A2@lexacorp.com.pg> On 24 Aug 2004 at 14:56, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when > keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the mdb > where I have to key all this Spanish. > That's why I suggested creating the text Word and copy/pasting into Access. The onl;y alternative I know of is using Alt+xxxx ie Alt + 0224 = ? etc. You will need to look at CharacterMap to get the codes for the various letters. -- Stuart From rford at terra.com.br Tue Aug 24 20:53:02 2004 From: rford at terra.com.br (Roberto Ford Long) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:53:02 -0300 Subject: RES: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed In-Reply-To: <02b601c48a19$c1743350$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <000001c48a46$429bff40$01c8a8c0@rflserver> Rocky, add a second keyboard map (or change your current to), U.S. International. You don't need to change your regional settings, only the kb layout. With this layout, you can press ~ and a = ?. For ? ? and c. HTH Ford -----Mensagem original----- De: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Em nome de Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Enviada em: ter?a-feira, 24 de agosto de 2004 17:34 Para: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Assunto: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed Dear List: I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the vowels. I fooled around with the different keyboards in the Regional Settings with no success. I'd like to keep my machine set to English. Is there a (relatively) simple solution? A tutorial someone can point me to? (Help has not been.) MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 24 22:05:34 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:05:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - Need Outlook Guru Message-ID: <007801c48a50$63764a90$4a619a89@DDICK> Hi all Need Outlook guru assistance I have managed to create an Outlook Calendar appointment from access - excellent, and I am capturing the calendar item's Unique ID called EntryID Now does anyone know how I can delete the same calendar item using the EntryID The code below NEARLY works, but it dies on the line about finding a rec Based on the EntryID I have scoured the net for examples to delete calendar items and just can't find any. Another 2 days wasted Many thanks in advance Darren """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Function somenewfunction() Dim ol As Outlook.Application Dim olns As Outlook.NameSpace Dim objFolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder Dim AllAppts As Outlook.Items Dim myAppt As Outlook.AppointmentItem Set ol = New Outlook.Application Set olns = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI") Set objFolder = olns.GetDefaultFolder(olFolderCalendar) Set AllAppts = objFolder.Items Set myAppt = AllAppts.Find("[EntryID] = _ ""00000000B5860CB6D252A64BB055F39CD7DABCC824332000""") MsgBox myAppt.Subject End Function """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Aug 25 02:07:16 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:07:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed References: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <412C3AA4.408@shaw.ca> Another Method Win XP Control Panel --> Regional Language Settings--> Languages --Details --> Installed services Add the Spanish Keyboard in addition to English. Other button option selections Language -choose to float Keyboard Language Bar on Screen as transparent or in tasktray I prefer floating bar rather cluttering TaskTray icon Key Settings choose a hotkey to switch language keyboard. This will give you a floating keyboard selection bar Defualt To change language keyboards when typing toggle ALT - Right Shift You can also do this by VBA code. I have used to sense Keyboard language state and switch between French or English Text boxes on same form There are probably pictures of spanish keyboard mappings at http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >Stuart: > > >Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when >keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the mdb >where I have to key all this Spanish. > >Rocky > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Stuart McLachlan" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:42 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > > > > >>On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >> >> >> >>>I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a >>>terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the >>>vowels. >>> >>> >>Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut and >>paste. >> >>>From the Word Help: >>To insert Press >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter >> >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter >> >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter >> >>?, ?, ? >>?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? >> >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, Y CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter >> >>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A >> >>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A >> >>o, O CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O >> >>?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C >> >>?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D >> >>?, ? CTRL+/, o or O >> >>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? >> >>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! >>-- >>Stuart >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed Aug 25 02:30:17 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:30:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - Need Outlook Guru In-Reply-To: <007801c48a50$63764a90$4a619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <008f01c48a75$5eae8980$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Darren Just thrashing ideas but looking at the Outlook Help they construct it like this: Set myAppt = objFolder.Items.Find("[EntryID] = ""00000000B5860CB6D252A64BB055F39CD7DABCC824332000""") Have you tried that? Of course you have. If you can't get Find working would it be worth trying a For Each loop through the Items collection testing for your EntryId? Long way round but might get you moving. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: 25 August 2004 04:06 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - > Need Outlook Guru > > > Hi all > Need Outlook guru assistance > I have managed to create an Outlook Calendar appointment from > access - excellent, and I am capturing the calendar item's > Unique ID called EntryID > > Now does anyone know how I can delete the same calendar item > using the EntryID The code below NEARLY works, but it dies on > the line about finding a rec > Based on the EntryID > I have scoured the net for examples to delete calendar items > and just can't find any. Another 2 days wasted > > Many thanks in advance > > Darren > > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > """""""""""""" > Function somenewfunction() > > Dim ol As Outlook.Application > Dim olns As Outlook.NameSpace > Dim objFolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder > Dim AllAppts As Outlook.Items > Dim myAppt As Outlook.AppointmentItem > > > Set ol = New Outlook.Application > Set olns = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI") > Set objFolder = olns.GetDefaultFolder(olFolderCalendar) > Set AllAppts = objFolder.Items > Set myAppt = AllAppts.Find("[EntryID] = _ > ""00000000B5860CB6D252A64BB055F39CD7DABCC824332000""") > > MsgBox myAppt.Subject > > End Function > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > """"""""""""" > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Wed Aug 25 02:53:42 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:53:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business Message-ID: Hi Lorraine Very good tutorials at Martin Green's site, www.fontstuff.com And another one I found only yesterday, http://functionx.com/ which looks great too. For a sample database, don't overlook the Access sample, Northwind. I see that fuctionx.com has a sample there too. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Christian, Lorraine [mailto:LChristian at MassMutual.com] Sent: 24 August 2004 19:54 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 25 06:35:39 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:35:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business In-Reply-To: <4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ@isimevip01.private.massmutual.com> Message-ID: <013301c48a97$a5e5c490$6601a8c0@rock> It's not criminal (yet) to post such messages to a newsgroup dedicated to a specific topic, but at the very least it IS unethical. I ask you to cease and desist immediately. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of lchristian Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from lchristian at massmutual.com The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 EDT4 From LChristian at MassMutual.com Wed Aug 25 06:35:36 2004 From: LChristian at MassMutual.com (Christian, Lorraine) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:35:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9E0C@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> Well it looks like I have my work cut out for me! Many thanks to Drew, Paul, Gary and Francisco for your help and suggestions. I will be getting to work soon and I am sure that you will be hearing from me! :) Thanks again. Lorraine --------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. --------------------------------------------------------- From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 25 08:14:11 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:14:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Aug 25 09:12:27 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Message-ID: <000c01c48aad$8da124e0$de1811d8@danwaters> Hello to All! I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE would also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the BE to auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application and then closed. With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this code to compact the BE when the FE is closed by the last person. Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close option to true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be asked to enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their FE. You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit button is the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) When you push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before using the DoCmd.Quit method. I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will work for everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems, Inc. PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. '-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public Sub CompactBE() On Error GoTo EH Dim stgPath As String Dim blnExclusive As Boolean Dim appAccess As Access.Application Dim varReturn As Variant If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then Exit Sub End If stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting blnExclusive = True Set appAccess = New Access.Application varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens quickly! appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase appAccess.Quit varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) Exit Sub EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", "CompactBE") End Sub Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer On Error GoTo EH Dim con As New ADODB.Connection Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset Dim stgAccessVersion As String Dim intUserCount As Integer Dim stgUserName As String stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema rowset _ in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets Select Case stgAccessVersion Case "9.0" '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access 2000 con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" Case "10.0" '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access 2002 or 2003 Set con = CurrentProject.Connection Case "11.0" '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access 2002 or 2003 Set con = CurrentProject.Connection End Select Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , "{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") If rst.EOF = False Then Do While rst.EOF = False stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, rst.Fields(1), Chr(0)) - 1) If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 End If rst.MoveNext Loop CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount Else CountCurrentUsers = 0 End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing Exit Function EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current Users", "CountCurrentUsers") End Function From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Aug 25 09:12:27 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material In-Reply-To: <29899731.1093439997823.JavaMail.root@sniper7.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000d01c48aad$8de5cf00$de1811d8@danwaters> Mark, MS has a something called the Office XP Web Component Toolpack. The help files are pretty good. You can do some Very sophisticated graphing with this tool, including drill-downs. You can also set up a chart with your system's data, and let users customize the chart to their heart's content. But, there is a significant learning curve, both for the developer and the user. Best of Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Wed Aug 25 09:41:34 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:41:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E24D@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Mark, We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) of inspectors. The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. lugs). All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is done to determine the POD. When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the "FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't needed. Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is placed in the text box of the report. The formula is: =Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))*([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) For our purposes this works. My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've earned it. Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many queries) has taken several minutes to finish. HTH Best of luck. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Aug 25 10:00:19 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:00:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material In-Reply-To: <29899731.1093439997823.JavaMail.root@sniper7.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000e01c48ab4$3d395390$de1811d8@danwaters> Mark, Another path you might consider is to use Excel with Automation. Excel has a world of statistical functions available. I would start by creating what you want in Excel using the worksheet functions. Then automate Excel from Access and place the functions you want in the spreadsheet using code. Then you can retrieve the value(s) you want from that spreadsheet, then close Excel. This lets Excel do the calculation work instead of trying to do it in Access. When you open Excel from Access, it will not be visible on screen (unless you specify that it be visible). So the user doesn't see any extraneous screen activity. Hope this helps, Dan Waters ProMation Systems, Inc. PS - you can use MS Graph in Access reports in addition to Office Web Components. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 25 10:17:40 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:17:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: Jim, Well thank you for pointing out my obvious limitations;) I have a sneaking suspicion that a mathematician may indeed be needed before this is all said and done. I will have to keep that in mind so that I can bring in assistance sooner rather than later. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) of inspectors. The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. lugs). All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is done to determine the POD. When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the "FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't needed. Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is placed in the text box of the report. The formula is: =Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]* [R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-([ C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N])) *([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) For our purposes this works. My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've earned it. Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many queries) has taken several minutes to finish. HTH Best of luck. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 25 10:19:02 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:19:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: Thanks Dan, that is a consideration... Mark -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:00 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, Another path you might consider is to use Excel with Automation. Excel has a world of statistical functions available. I would start by creating what you want in Excel using the worksheet functions. Then automate Excel from Access and place the functions you want in the spreadsheet using code. Then you can retrieve the value(s) you want from that spreadsheet, then close Excel. This lets Excel do the calculation work instead of trying to do it in Access. When you open Excel from Access, it will not be visible on screen (unless you specify that it be visible). So the user doesn't see any extraneous screen activity. Hope this helps, Dan Waters ProMation Systems, Inc. PS - you can use MS Graph in Access reports in addition to Office Web Components. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 10:23:10 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:23:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ALTER TABLE in Access In-Reply-To: <000801c48a0b$ae5cb0c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> References: <20040824182626.CUHV1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> <000801c48a0b$ae5cb0c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:53:41 -0500, Mark Whittinghill wrote: > I've tried that and various versions with and without commas, etc. > Mark, According to Harkins' and Reid's SQL:Access to Sql Server; page 209, you could just use the change data type to do this: ALTER TABLE tblCustomers ALTER COLUMN contacts TEXT(25) According to the book it changes the original data type to the new datatype, in this case a larger field size. hope this helps. You can also run the above command via ADO, have you tried doing it that way? -- -Francisco From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed Aug 25 13:09:03 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:09:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE93@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> You might take a look here Jim Hale http://www.johngalt.com/oem_addin.shtml -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Jim, Well thank you for pointing out my obvious limitations;) I have a sneaking suspicion that a mathematician may indeed be needed before this is all said and done. I will have to keep that in mind so that I can bring in assistance sooner rather than later. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) of inspectors. The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. lugs). All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is done to determine the POD. When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the "FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't needed. Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is placed in the text box of the report. The formula is: =Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]* [R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-([ C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N])) *([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) For our purposes this works. My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've earned it. Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many queries) has taken several minutes to finish. HTH Best of luck. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 13:26:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:26:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. From fhtapia at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 13:37:25 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:37:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:26:59 -0700, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of > VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that > rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, > it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! > are you going dotNET 2003? and will you be looking at Reporting Services for your reporting needs? just wondering... btw, I like the development gui tools too. -- -Francisco From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 25 13:42:29 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:42:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDD1@DISABILITYINS01> ROTFL. Can I go to work for you guys? JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 25 14:13:25 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:13:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089AC2@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> >>if you're already very familiar with classes<< Key words there Charlotte. Familiarity with OOP will be a big plus if/when moving to the .NET world. Are you porting to ASP.NET or VB (or C# to be really cool!!)? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Wed Aug 25 14:45:06 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:45:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630500326A4@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> I am trying to call a function which opens a new (popup) form. My problem is that I need to halt execution of the original code until the new form is closed. I know that I have done something like this before, but I cannot remember how? Any help is greatly appreciated Jeff B From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 14:47:15 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:47:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call Message-ID: Open the popup as a dialog. That will halt the calling code until the popup is closed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Barrows [mailto:Jeff at outbaktech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call I am trying to call a function which opens a new (popup) form. My problem is that I need to halt execution of the original code until the new form is closed. I know that I have done something like this before, but I cannot remember how? Any help is greatly appreciated Jeff B From kevinb at bepc.com Wed Aug 25 14:58:21 2004 From: kevinb at bepc.com (Kevin Bachmeier) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:58:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: <5C210A2F04B76B4AB2A18E6FEB817134068DCA@HDQ06.bepc.net> Charlotte - when you've completed the training, please let us know what medium (classroom/book/web) you went through, and your opinion of that training. TIA Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Wed Aug 25 15:00:34 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:00:34 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630500326A4@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <000501c48ade$2ee021f0$120d6bd5@netboxxp> docmd.OpenForm "yourFormName",,,,,acDialog Hth mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: 25 August 2004 20:45 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call I am trying to call a function which opens a new (popup) form. My problem is that I need to halt execution of the original code until the new form is closed. I know that I have done something like this before, but I cannot remember how? Any help is greatly appreciated Jeff B --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 22/07/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 22/07/2004 From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 15:07:48 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:07:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: We're using the AppDev courses on DVD, and so far they are excellent. I could wish that Andy Barron grinned less, and all of them seem to smile more than is appropriate to the material, but the training itself is very good. As far as completing it, there are a huge number of VB.Net modules, so it may be a while. Then I get to start ADO.Net and ASP.Net! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Bachmeier [mailto:kevinb at bepc.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Charlotte - when you've completed the training, please let us know what medium (classroom/book/web) you went through, and your opinion of that training. TIA Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Wed Aug 25 15:12:54 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:12:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630500326A5@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Thanks a lot!!! That seems to have done the trick! -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wed 8/25/2004 2:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call Open the popup as a dialog. That will halt the calling code until the popup is closed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Barrows [mailto:Jeff at outbaktech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call I am trying to call a function which opens a new (popup) form. My problem is that I need to halt execution of the original code until the new form is closed. I know that I have done something like this before, but I cannot remember how? Any help is greatly appreciated Jeff B -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Wed Aug 25 15:14:41 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:14:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E25C@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Mark, I didn't mean to insinuate any limitation of your skill set. Rather, it's better to have two sets of eyes on the prize...;) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Jim, Well thank you for pointing out my obvious limitations;) I have a sneaking suspicion that a mathematician may indeed be needed before this is all said and done. I will have to keep that in mind so that I can bring in assistance sooner rather than later. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) of inspectors. The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. lugs). All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is done to determine the POD. When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the "FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't needed. Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is placed in the text box of the report. The formula is: =Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]* [R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-([ C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N])) *([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) For our purposes this works. My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've earned it. Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many queries) has taken several minutes to finish. HTH Best of luck. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Wed Aug 25 15:16:48 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:16:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630500326A6@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> You could always try a BootCamp! I do not recommend them unless you can completely give up two weeks of your life - No Work, No Family, No Life (except for studying). Having said that, if you can do the above, a BootCamp is not that bad way to go. LOTS of information, little time. I actually walked away from the last MCSD .NET exam and wrote a small app! -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wed 8/25/2004 3:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net We're using the AppDev courses on DVD, and so far they are excellent. I could wish that Andy Barron grinned less, and all of them seem to smile more than is appropriate to the material, but the training itself is very good. As far as completing it, there are a huge number of VB.Net modules, so it may be a while. Then I get to start ADO.Net and ASP.Net! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Bachmeier [mailto:kevinb at bepc.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Charlotte - when you've completed the training, please let us know what medium (classroom/book/web) you went through, and your opinion of that training. TIA Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 25 15:30:42 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:30:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: Jim, I wasn't offended by any means...honestly. It was all in jest to remind myself that I can't ALWAYS do it all myself. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, I didn't mean to insinuate any limitation of your skill set. Rather, it's better to have two sets of eyes on the prize...;) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Jim, Well thank you for pointing out my obvious limitations;) I have a sneaking suspicion that a mathematician may indeed be needed before this is all said and done. I will have to keep that in mind so that I can bring in assistance sooner rather than later. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) of inspectors. The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. lugs). All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is done to determine the POD. When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the "FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't needed. Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is placed in the text box of the report. The formula is: =Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]* [R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-([ C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N])) *([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) For our purposes this works. My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've earned it. Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many queries) has taken several minutes to finish. HTH Best of luck. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From susanj at sgmeet.com Wed Aug 25 15:47:24 2004 From: susanj at sgmeet.com (Susan Jones) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:47:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ASP Programming Project Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040825152412.03d1ad68@192.168.3.99> We are considering outsourcing a project that uses ASP to capture information online into a SQL database. If this is something you do and would be interested in pursuing further, please contact me off-list. Thanks so much! Susan Susan Jones The Schneider Group 5400 Bosque Blvd., Suite 680 Waco, TX 76710-4446 254-776-3550 254-776-3767 fax From JHewson at karta.com Wed Aug 25 15:48:42 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:48:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E261@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Hey! I resemble that remark: "I can't ALWAYS do it all..." -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Jim, I wasn't offended by any means...honestly. It was all in jest to remind myself that I can't ALWAYS do it all myself. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, I didn't mean to insinuate any limitation of your skill set. Rather, it's better to have two sets of eyes on the prize...;) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Jim, Well thank you for pointing out my obvious limitations;) I have a sneaking suspicion that a mathematician may indeed be needed before this is all said and done. I will have to keep that in mind so that I can bring in assistance sooner rather than later. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) of inspectors. The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. lugs). All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is done to determine the POD. When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the "FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't needed. Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is placed in the text box of the report. The formula is: =Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]* [R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-([ C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N])) *([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) For our purposes this works. My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've earned it. Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many queries) has taken several minutes to finish. HTH Best of luck. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Wed Aug 25 15:55:40 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:55:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access Message-ID: Arthur in word 2000K there is an option under autocorrect to change word from straight quotes to smart quotes The ascii difference is straight quote = 39, I have the number for the curly quote but can't find it right this minute. It is on a slip of paper on the black hole I call a desk. I am pretty sure I figured it out by copying it from some other document into the function asc Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 12:13 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access > > Is there any way to replace the straight-vertical apostrophes > and quotation marks that Access uses with the curly ones that > Word uses? > I've tried to export a report in Times Roman to Word and they > come in vertical. Yet when I type within that document I get > the curly variety? > Obviously the ANSI codes are different, so a wildcard > find-and-replace could do it, if I could figure out how to > tell Word to perform that kind of find-and-replace. Does > anyone know how to do that in Word? > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 16:30:22 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:30:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: My cats would object, I'm afraid. We licensed the AppDev modules, so any of us can log onto the training machine and work at our own speed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Barrows [mailto:Jeff at outbaktech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net You could always try a BootCamp! I do not recommend them unless you can completely give up two weeks of your life - No Work, No Family, No Life (except for studying). Having said that, if you can do the above, a BootCamp is not that bad way to go. LOTS of information, little time. I actually walked away from the last MCSD .NET exam and wrote a small app! -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wed 8/25/2004 3:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net We're using the AppDev courses on DVD, and so far they are excellent. I could wish that Andy Barron grinned less, and all of them seem to smile more than is appropriate to the material, but the training itself is very good. As far as completing it, there are a huge number of VB.Net modules, so it may be a while. Then I get to start ADO.Net and ASP.Net! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Bachmeier [mailto:kevinb at bepc.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Charlotte - when you've completed the training, please let us know what medium (classroom/book/web) you went through, and your opinion of that training. TIA Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 16:53:17 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:53:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:30:22 -0700, Charlotte Foust wrote: > My cats would object, I'm afraid. We licensed the AppDev modules, so > any of us can log onto the training machine and work at our own speed. How many cats is that? -- -Francisco From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 17:17:13 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:17:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: Which, the ones that log onto the training machine?? There are 4 developers at work and by a coincidence, I have 4 cats at home. I do NOT allow them to play with the computer! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:30:22 -0700, Charlotte Foust wrote: > My cats would object, I'm afraid. We licensed the AppDev modules, so > any of us can log onto the training machine and work at our own speed. How many cats is that? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 25 17:51:55 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:51:55 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <412DA4AB.6467.8AFADF6@lexacorp.com.pg> On 25 Aug 2004 at 16:55, O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) wrote: > > The ascii difference is straight quote = 39, I have the number for the > curly quote but can't find it right this minute. It is on a slip of > paper on the black hole I call a desk. Trouble is there are two. Word keeps track of them so that it knows whether to use an opener or closer - so you can't just do a find and replace. Left Double Quote = 147 Right Double Quote = 148 -- Stuart From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Aug 25 18:43:57 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:43:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed References: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412C3AA4.408@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <035b01c48afd$63dcf300$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Marty: Don't know exactly how I did it, but I got the alternate keyboard. AND I can key the accent marks directly in an Access table now. Thanks to all Best, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:07 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > Another Method > > Win XP Control Panel --> Regional Language Settings--> Languages > --Details --> Installed services > Add the Spanish Keyboard in addition to English. > > Other button option selections > > Language -choose to float Keyboard Language Bar on Screen as transparent > or in tasktray > I prefer floating bar rather cluttering TaskTray icon > > Key Settings choose a hotkey to switch language keyboard. > > This will give you a floating keyboard selection bar > > Defualt To change language keyboards when typing toggle ALT - Right Shift > > You can also do this by VBA code. I have used to sense Keyboard > language state and switch between French or English Text boxes on same form > There are probably pictures of spanish keyboard mappings at > http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev > > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > > >Stuart: > > > > > >Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when > >keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the mdb > >where I have to key all this Spanish. > > > >Rocky > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Stuart McLachlan" > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:42 PM > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > > > > > > > > > >>On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a > >>>terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the > >>>vowels. > >>> > >>> > >>Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut and > >>paste. > >> > >>>From the Word Help: > >>To insert Press > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter > >> > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter > >> > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter > >> > >>?, ?, ? > >>?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >> > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, Y CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter > >> > >>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A > >> > >>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A > >> > >>o, O CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O > >> > >>?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C > >> > >>?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D > >> > >>?, ? CTRL+/, o or O > >> > >>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? > >> > >>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! > >>-- > >>Stuart > >> > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>AccessD mailing list > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 19:45:46 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:45:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: I'm not sure. We have one developer who has been working on the first slice of this while the rest of us come up to speed, but I've been buried in doing updates to our AXP apps, so I can't remember whether we've really decided on that. It seems to me we did. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:26:59 -0700, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of > VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that > rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, > it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! > are you going dotNET 2003? and will you be looking at Reporting Services for your reporting needs? just wondering... btw, I like the development gui tools too. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 19:46:39 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:46:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: VB.Net. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net >>if you're already very familiar with classes<< Key words there Charlotte. Familiarity with OOP will be a big plus if/when moving to the .NET world. Are you porting to ASP.NET or VB (or C# to be really cool!!)? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". ************************************************************************ *********** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 19:47:29 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:47:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: Since we're in California, the commute might be rather extreme ... Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net ROTFL. Can I go to work for you guys? JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 19:49:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:49:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Message-ID: We simply include a Compact button in our application that allows the user to compact the BE on demand. Both our front and back ends are secured, so we open a secured workspace to perform the compact. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 7:12 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Hello to All! I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE would also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the BE to auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application and then closed. With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this code to compact the BE when the FE is closed by the last person. Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close option to true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be asked to enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their FE. You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit button is the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) When you push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before using the DoCmd.Quit method. I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will work for everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems, Inc. PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. '-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public Sub CompactBE() On Error GoTo EH Dim stgPath As String Dim blnExclusive As Boolean Dim appAccess As Access.Application Dim varReturn As Variant If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then Exit Sub End If stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting blnExclusive = True Set appAccess = New Access.Application varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens quickly! appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase appAccess.Quit varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) Exit Sub EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", "CompactBE") End Sub Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer On Error GoTo EH Dim con As New ADODB.Connection Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset Dim stgAccessVersion As String Dim intUserCount As Integer Dim stgUserName As String stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema rowset _ in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets Select Case stgAccessVersion Case "9.0" '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access 2000 con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" Case "10.0" '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access 2002 or 2003 Set con = CurrentProject.Connection Case "11.0" '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access 2002 or 2003 Set con = CurrentProject.Connection End Select Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , "{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") If rst.EOF = False Then Do While rst.EOF = False stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, rst.Fields(1), Chr(0)) - 1) If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 End If rst.MoveNext Loop CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount Else CountCurrentUsers = 0 End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing Exit Function EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current Users", "CountCurrentUsers") End Function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Wed Aug 25 20:14:21 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:14:21 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Message-ID: <102620-22004842611421638@christopherhawkins.com> What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: dwaters at usinternet.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 >Hello to All! > >I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE >would >also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the >BE to >auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application >and then >closed. > >With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this >code to >compact the BE >when the FE is closed by the last person. > >Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close >option to >true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be >asked to >enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their >FE. > >You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit >button is >the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) >When you >push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before >using the >DoCmd.Quit method. > >I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will >work for >everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! > >Thanks! >Dan Waters >ProMation Systems, Inc. > >PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. > > > >'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' > >Option Compare Database >Option Explicit > >Public Sub CompactBE() >On Error GoTo EH > > Dim stgPath As String > Dim blnExclusive As Boolean > Dim appAccess As Access.Application > Dim varReturn As Variant > > If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then > Exit Sub > End If > > stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" > '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting > blnExclusive = True > > Set appAccess = New Access.Application > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") > > appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive > '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens >quickly! > appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase > appAccess.Quit > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) > > Exit Sub > >EH: > Application.Echo True > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", >"CompactBE") > >End Sub > >Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer >On Error GoTo EH > > Dim con As New ADODB.Connection > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > Dim stgAccessVersion As String > Dim intUserCount As Integer > Dim stgUserName As String > > stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) > > '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema >rowset _ > in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ > reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ > listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets > > Select Case stgAccessVersion > Case "9.0" > '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access >2000 > con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data >Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" > Case "10.0" > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >2002 or >2003 > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > Case "11.0" > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >2002 or >2003 > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > End Select > > Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , >"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") > > If rst.EOF = False Then > Do While rst.EOF = False > stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, >rst.Fields(1), >Chr(0)) - 1) > If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then > intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 > End If > rst.MoveNext > Loop > CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount > Else > CountCurrentUsers = 0 > End If > > rst.Close > Set rst = Nothing > > Exit Function > >EH: > Application.Echo True > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current >Users", "CountCurrentUsers") > >End Function > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Respectfully, Christopher Hawkins Managing Developer http://www.christopherhawkins.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Aug 25 21:09:30 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:09:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - Need Outlook Guru In-Reply-To: <008f01c48a75$5eae8980$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <002c01c48b11$b92cea90$4a619a89@DDICK> Thanks Andy Yes I did get it working And yes I looped throuh the Appointments collection till I found A matching EntryID Many thanks BTW work has firmed up a bit - Management have stopped the redundancy talks For at least 1 year (maybe 2) woo hoo Have a great day Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Wednesday, 25 August 2004 5:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - Need Outlook Guru Darren Just thrashing ideas but looking at the Outlook Help they construct it like this: Set myAppt = objFolder.Items.Find("[EntryID] = ""00000000B5860CB6D252A64BB055F39CD7DABCC824332000""") Have you tried that? Of course you have. If you can't get Find working would it be worth trying a For Each loop through the Items collection testing for your EntryId? Long way round but might get you moving. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: 25 August 2004 04:06 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - > Need Outlook Guru > > > Hi all > Need Outlook guru assistance > I have managed to create an Outlook Calendar appointment from > access - excellent, and I am capturing the calendar item's > Unique ID called EntryID > > Now does anyone know how I can delete the same calendar item > using the EntryID The code below NEARLY works, but it dies on > the line about finding a rec > Based on the EntryID > I have scoured the net for examples to delete calendar items > and just can't find any. Another 2 days wasted > > Many thanks in advance > > Darren > > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > """""""""""""" > Function somenewfunction() > > Dim ol As Outlook.Application > Dim olns As Outlook.NameSpace > Dim objFolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder > Dim AllAppts As Outlook.Items > Dim myAppt As Outlook.AppointmentItem > > > Set ol = New Outlook.Application > Set olns = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI") > Set objFolder = olns.GetDefaultFolder(olFolderCalendar) > Set AllAppts = objFolder.Items > Set myAppt = AllAppts.Find("[EntryID] = _ > ""00000000B5860CB6D252A64BB055F39CD7DABCC824332000""") > > MsgBox myAppt.Subject > > End Function > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > """"""""""""" > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Aug 26 07:29:57 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 07:29:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example In-Reply-To: <25982283.1093482971104.JavaMail.root@sniper6.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000101c48b68$6670e1b0$de1811d8@danwaters> Chris, The function called CountCurrentUsers will prevent the CompactBE procedure from running until the last user is exiting. I like your VB utility approach. My system also has a 'shutdown' time period during the night so that backup processes work well. This would be a good time for a scheduled compact. There's nothing retentive about it! I've had a 20 Mb BE grow to 80 Mb - this caused the IT dept. to start an investigation as to why they were having network problems. They weren't aware that they needed to compact the BE regularly. So, a method to automatically compact the BE avoids the whole issue. Chris - would it be possible for you to post the VB utility code, or to make it available to the folks on this list? Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: dwaters at usinternet.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 >Hello to All! > >I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE >would >also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the >BE to >auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application >and then >closed. > >With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this >code to >compact the BE >when the FE is closed by the last person. > >Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close >option to >true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be >asked to >enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their >FE. > >You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit >button is >the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) >When you >push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before >using the >DoCmd.Quit method. > >I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will >work for >everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! > >Thanks! >Dan Waters >ProMation Systems, Inc. > >PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. > > > >'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' > >Option Compare Database >Option Explicit > >Public Sub CompactBE() >On Error GoTo EH > > Dim stgPath As String > Dim blnExclusive As Boolean > Dim appAccess As Access.Application > Dim varReturn As Variant > > If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then > Exit Sub > End If > > stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" > '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting > blnExclusive = True > > Set appAccess = New Access.Application > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") > > appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive > '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens >quickly! > appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase > appAccess.Quit > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) > > Exit Sub > >EH: > Application.Echo True > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", >"CompactBE") > >End Sub > >Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer >On Error GoTo EH > > Dim con As New ADODB.Connection > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > Dim stgAccessVersion As String > Dim intUserCount As Integer > Dim stgUserName As String > > stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) > > '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema >rowset _ > in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ > reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ > listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets > > Select Case stgAccessVersion > Case "9.0" > '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access >2000 > con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data >Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" > Case "10.0" > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >2002 or >2003 > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > Case "11.0" > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >2002 or >2003 > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > End Select > > Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , >"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") > > If rst.EOF = False Then > Do While rst.EOF = False > stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, >rst.Fields(1), >Chr(0)) - 1) > If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then > intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 > End If > rst.MoveNext > Loop > CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount > Else > CountCurrentUsers = 0 > End If > > rst.Close > Set rst = Nothing > > Exit Function > >EH: > Application.Echo True > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current >Users", "CountCurrentUsers") > >End Function > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Respectfully, Christopher Hawkins Managing Developer http://www.christopherhawkins.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Thu Aug 26 08:30:06 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:30:06 +0100 Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: Conscience got the better of me, John, and I visited your site again to find the mysterious yet desired file, C2DbFW3G. Maybe they are rendered unnavigable to your fans in Eurpope, but the navigation buttons are in a mutinous mood over here and won't respond. Thought you should know I haven't forgotten. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else ROTFL. I'm here. And yes, write a class, which you will then put in your framework. Use SysVars to turn it on and off. If you have any questions what I am referring to go to: www.colbyconsulting.com Click C2DbFW3G. Start reading the lectures on classes ... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From JColby at dispec.com Thu Aug 26 09:10:55 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:10:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDD2@DISABILITYINS01> Yea, but at the salary they pay you I could fly back and forth every day right? ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Since we're in California, the commute might be rather extreme ... Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net ROTFL. Can I go to work for you guys? JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Aug 26 10:05:29 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:05:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F02D0884C@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Thanks for the background Dan. This sounds like another good reason to have the front-end on each user's workstation, as well as being sure to compact the latest version before releasing it :-) But at least the LAN is up to 100 mbit (I don't think you meant gigabits), if only I could say the same in my shop. We'll be on 10 mbit for ever. One thing strikes me as odd though and that's the 0.25 second time out for the server printers. A quarter of a second! Seem mighty brief to me, but then I'm no network specialist. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Waters [SMTP:dwaters at usinternet.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 10:09 AM > To: 'Heenan, Lambert' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Lambert, > > The network was in the process of being slowly upgraded to modern switches > (from 10 gbit to 100 gbit). The 80 Mb file was being sent as a single > piece, not broken into separate pieces. As a result, some of the printers > were dropping off-line. I was told that if the printers could not make > contact with the network within 0.25 seconds, then the printer would drop > off-line automatically. The 80 Mb file would take longer than that to get > across the network. > > Actually - my memory has finally come back to me. It was actually a FE > that > had not been decompiled and recompiled that had grown to 80 Mb, and was > later reduced to 20 Mb. 20 Mb did not cause the printers to drop > off-line. > > This was the story I got, and I believe that the IT folks who told me this > also believed it. Does this sound plausible? > > And you're right - this was something of an effort to lay the problems at > the door of Access, when it was really the IT Access developer who had > forgotten to decompile and recompile. > > Thanks, > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:51 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Dan Waters' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Dan, > > I'm curious to know what "network problems" were laid at the door of > Access > just because the BE grew to 80 Mb (not a particularly huge file). > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:30 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > > > Chris, > > > > The function called CountCurrentUsers will prevent the CompactBE > procedure > > from running until the last user is exiting. > > > > I like your VB utility approach. My system also has a 'shutdown' time > > period during the night so that backup processes work well. This would > be > > a > > good time for a scheduled compact. > > > > There's nothing retentive about it! I've had a 20 Mb BE grow to 80 Mb - > > this caused the IT dept. to start an investigation as to why they were > > having network problems. They weren't aware that they needed to compact > > the > > BE regularly. So, a method to automatically compact the BE avoids the > > whole > > issue. > > > > Chris - would it be possible for you to post the VB utility code, or to > > make > > it available to the folks on this list? > > > > Thanks! > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher > > Hawkins > > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 PM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > > > What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the > > back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? > > > > Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a > > database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients > > usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. > > > > -C- > > > > ---- Original Message ---- > > From: dwaters at usinternet.com > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 > > > > >Hello to All! > > > > > >I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE > > >would > > >also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the > > >BE to > > >auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application > > >and then > > >closed. > > > > > >With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this > > >code to > > >compact the BE > > >when the FE is closed by the last person. > > > > > >Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close > > >option to > > >true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be > > >asked to > > >enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their > > >FE. > > > > > >You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit > > >button is > > >the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) > > >When you > > >push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before > > >using the > > >DoCmd.Quit method. > > > > > >I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will > > >work for > > >everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! > > > > > >Thanks! > > >Dan Waters > > >ProMation Systems, Inc. > > > > > >PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. > > > > > > > > > > > >'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' > > > > > >Option Compare Database > > >Option Explicit > > > > > >Public Sub CompactBE() > > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > > > Dim stgPath As String > > > Dim blnExclusive As Boolean > > > Dim appAccess As Access.Application > > > Dim varReturn As Variant > > > > > > If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then > > > Exit Sub > > > End If > > > > > > stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" > > > '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting > > > blnExclusive = True > > > > > > Set appAccess = New Access.Application > > > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") > > > > > > appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive > > > '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens > > >quickly! > > > appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase > > > appAccess.Quit > > > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) > > > > > > Exit Sub > > > > > >EH: > > > Application.Echo True > > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", > > >"CompactBE") > > > > > >End Sub > > > > > >Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer > > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > > > Dim con As New ADODB.Connection > > > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > > > Dim stgAccessVersion As String > > > Dim intUserCount As Integer > > > Dim stgUserName As String > > > > > > stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) > > > > > > '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema > > >rowset _ > > > in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ > > > reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ > > > listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets > > > > > > Select Case stgAccessVersion > > > Case "9.0" > > > '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access > > >2000 > > > con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data > > >Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" > > > Case "10.0" > > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > > >2002 or > > >2003 > > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > > Case "11.0" > > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > > >2002 or > > >2003 > > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > > End Select > > > > > > Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , > > >"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") > > > > > > If rst.EOF = False Then > > > Do While rst.EOF = False > > > stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, > > >rst.Fields(1), > > >Chr(0)) - 1) > > > If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then > > > intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 > > > End If > > > rst.MoveNext > > > Loop > > > CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount > > > Else > > > CountCurrentUsers = 0 > > > End If > > > > > > rst.Close > > > Set rst = Nothing > > > > > > Exit Function > > > > > >EH: > > > Application.Echo True > > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current > > >Users", "CountCurrentUsers") > > > > > >End Function > > > > > > > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Christopher Hawkins > > Managing Developer > > http://www.christopherhawkins.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Thu Aug 26 10:30:46 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:30:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ALTER TABLE in Access References: <20040824182626.CUHV1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE><000801c48a0b$ae5cb0c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Message-ID: <007e01c48b81$aa4a88f0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Francisco, That's exactly what I do. I was looking for a way to to do several ALTER COLUMNS with one ALTER TABLE. I guess I'll just run several ALTER TABLEs. It's no big deal, I just thought it would be slicker if I could do it the other way. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco Tapia" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] ALTER TABLE in Access > On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:53:41 -0500, Mark Whittinghill > wrote: > > I've tried that and various versions with and without commas, etc. > > > > Mark, According to Harkins' and Reid's SQL:Access to Sql Server; > page 209, you could just use the change data type to do this: > > ALTER TABLE tblCustomers ALTER COLUMN contacts TEXT(25) > > According to the book it changes the original data type to the new > datatype, in this case a larger field size. hope this helps. You can > also run the above command via ADO, have you tried doing it that way? > > -- > -Francisco > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From JColby at dispec.com Thu Aug 26 10:24:53 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:24:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDD5@DISABILITYINS01> The times sound implausible anyway. A 25mb file across a 100 mBIT LAN will take AT LEAST 100/8 seconds to transfer. In fact it will take longer since LANS send data packets with header info etc, and there will inevitably be collisions. In any case a 25mb file simply cannot be transferred across a 100 mbit LAN in less than .25 seconds. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:05 AM To: 'dwaters at usinternet.com' Cc: Access-D Email (E-mail) Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Thanks for the background Dan. This sounds like another good reason to have the front-end on each user's workstation, as well as being sure to compact the latest version before releasing it :-) But at least the LAN is up to 100 mbit (I don't think you meant gigabits), if only I could say the same in my shop. We'll be on 10 mbit for ever. One thing strikes me as odd though and that's the 0.25 second time out for the server printers. A quarter of a second! Seem mighty brief to me, but then I'm no network specialist. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Waters [SMTP:dwaters at usinternet.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 10:09 AM > To: 'Heenan, Lambert' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Lambert, > > The network was in the process of being slowly upgraded to modern switches > (from 10 gbit to 100 gbit). The 80 Mb file was being sent as a single > piece, not broken into separate pieces. As a result, some of the printers > were dropping off-line. I was told that if the printers could not make > contact with the network within 0.25 seconds, then the printer would drop > off-line automatically. The 80 Mb file would take longer than that to get > across the network. > > Actually - my memory has finally come back to me. It was actually a FE > that > had not been decompiled and recompiled that had grown to 80 Mb, and was > later reduced to 20 Mb. 20 Mb did not cause the printers to drop > off-line. > > This was the story I got, and I believe that the IT folks who told me this > also believed it. Does this sound plausible? > > And you're right - this was something of an effort to lay the problems at > the door of Access, when it was really the IT Access developer who had > forgotten to decompile and recompile. > > Thanks, > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:51 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Dan Waters' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Dan, > > I'm curious to know what "network problems" were laid at the door of > Access > just because the BE grew to 80 Mb (not a particularly huge file). > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:30 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > > > Chris, > > > > The function called CountCurrentUsers will prevent the CompactBE > procedure > > from running until the last user is exiting. > > > > I like your VB utility approach. My system also has a 'shutdown' time > > period during the night so that backup processes work well. This would > be > > a > > good time for a scheduled compact. > > > > There's nothing retentive about it! I've had a 20 Mb BE grow to 80 Mb - > > this caused the IT dept. to start an investigation as to why they were > > having network problems. They weren't aware that they needed to compact > > the > > BE regularly. So, a method to automatically compact the BE avoids the > > whole > > issue. > > > > Chris - would it be possible for you to post the VB utility code, or to > > make > > it available to the folks on this list? > > > > Thanks! > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher > > Hawkins > > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 PM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > > > What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the > > back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? > > > > Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a > > database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients > > usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. > > > > -C- > > > > ---- Original Message ---- > > From: dwaters at usinternet.com > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 > > > > >Hello to All! > > > > > >I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE > > >would > > >also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the > > >BE to > > >auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application > > >and then > > >closed. > > > > > >With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this > > >code to > > >compact the BE > > >when the FE is closed by the last person. > > > > > >Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close > > >option to > > >true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be > > >asked to > > >enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their > > >FE. > > > > > >You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit > > >button is > > >the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) > > >When you > > >push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before > > >using the > > >DoCmd.Quit method. > > > > > >I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will > > >work for > > >everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! > > > > > >Thanks! > > >Dan Waters > > >ProMation Systems, Inc. > > > > > >PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. > > > > > > > > > > > >'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' > > > > > >Option Compare Database > > >Option Explicit > > > > > >Public Sub CompactBE() > > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > > > Dim stgPath As String > > > Dim blnExclusive As Boolean > > > Dim appAccess As Access.Application > > > Dim varReturn As Variant > > > > > > If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then > > > Exit Sub > > > End If > > > > > > stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" > > > '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting > > > blnExclusive = True > > > > > > Set appAccess = New Access.Application > > > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") > > > > > > appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive > > > '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens > > >quickly! > > > appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase > > > appAccess.Quit > > > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) > > > > > > Exit Sub > > > > > >EH: > > > Application.Echo True > > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", > > >"CompactBE") > > > > > >End Sub > > > > > >Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer > > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > > > Dim con As New ADODB.Connection > > > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > > > Dim stgAccessVersion As String > > > Dim intUserCount As Integer > > > Dim stgUserName As String > > > > > > stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) > > > > > > '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema > > >rowset _ > > > in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ > > > reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ > > > listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets > > > > > > Select Case stgAccessVersion > > > Case "9.0" > > > '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access > > >2000 > > > con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data > > >Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" > > > Case "10.0" > > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > > >2002 or > > >2003 > > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > > Case "11.0" > > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > > >2002 or > > >2003 > > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > > End Select > > > > > > Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , > > >"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") > > > > > > If rst.EOF = False Then > > > Do While rst.EOF = False > > > stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, > > >rst.Fields(1), > > >Chr(0)) - 1) > > > If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then > > > intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 > > > End If > > > rst.MoveNext > > > Loop > > > CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount > > > Else > > > CountCurrentUsers = 0 > > > End If > > > > > > rst.Close > > > Set rst = Nothing > > > > > > Exit Function > > > > > >EH: > > > Application.Echo True > > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current > > >Users", "CountCurrentUsers") > > > > > >End Function > > > > > > > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Christopher Hawkins > > Managing Developer > > http://www.christopherhawkins.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 26 10:28:27 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:28:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: ROTFLMAO Yeah, right!! Charlotte Fouat -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:11 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Yea, but at the salary they pay you I could fly back and forth every day right? ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Since we're in California, the commute might be rather extreme ... Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net ROTFL. Can I go to work for you guys? JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Thu Aug 26 10:59:40 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:59:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Message-ID: <184670-22004842615594026@christopherhawkins.com> Sure, I'll hunt it down. It's on one of the zip disks in that stack over there...*pointing to a mountain of storage media*. CountCurrentUsers? Is that a native Access function or something you wrote yourself? I haven't heard of that one. But then again, I"m not as active in Access as I was a few years ago, so I may not be hip to the newest stuff. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: dwaters at usinternet.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 07:29:57 -0500 >Chris, > >The function called CountCurrentUsers will prevent the CompactBE >procedure >from running until the last user is exiting. > >I like your VB utility approach. My system also has a 'shutdown' >time >period during the night so that backup processes work well. This >would be a >good time for a scheduled compact. > >There's nothing retentive about it! I've had a 20 Mb BE grow to 80 >Mb - >this caused the IT dept. to start an investigation as to why they >were >having network problems. They weren't aware that they needed to >compact the >BE regularly. So, a method to automatically compact the BE avoids >the whole >issue. > >Chris - would it be possible for you to post the VB utility code, or >to make >it available to the folks on this list? > >Thanks! >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > >What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the >back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? > >Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a >database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients >usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. > >-C- > >---- Original Message ---- >From: dwaters at usinternet.com >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example >Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 > >>Hello to All! >> >>I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE >>would >>also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the >>BE to >>auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application >>and then >>closed. >> >>With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this >>code to >>compact the BE >>when the FE is closed by the last person. >> >>Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close >>option to >>true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be >>asked to >>enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their >>FE. >> >>You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit >>button is >>the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) >>When you >>push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before >>using the >>DoCmd.Quit method. >> >>I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will >>work for >>everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! >> >>Thanks! >>Dan Waters >>ProMation Systems, Inc. >> >>PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. >> >> >> >>'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' >> >>Option Compare Database >>Option Explicit >> >>Public Sub CompactBE() >>On Error GoTo EH >> >> Dim stgPath As String >> Dim blnExclusive As Boolean >> Dim appAccess As Access.Application >> Dim varReturn As Variant >> >> If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then >> Exit Sub >> End If >> >> stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" >> '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting >> blnExclusive = True >> >> Set appAccess = New Access.Application >> >> varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") >> >> appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive >> '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens >>quickly! >> appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase >> appAccess.Quit >> >> varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) >> >> Exit Sub >> >>EH: >> Application.Echo True >> Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", >>"CompactBE") >> >>End Sub >> >>Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer >>On Error GoTo EH >> >> Dim con As New ADODB.Connection >> Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset >> Dim stgAccessVersion As String >> Dim intUserCount As Integer >> Dim stgUserName As String >> >> stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) >> >> '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema >>rowset _ >> in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ >> reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ >> listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets >> >> Select Case stgAccessVersion >> Case "9.0" >> '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access >>2000 >> con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data >>Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" >> Case "10.0" >> '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >>2002 or >>2003 >> Set con = CurrentProject.Connection >> Case "11.0" >> '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >>2002 or >>2003 >> Set con = CurrentProject.Connection >> End Select >> >> Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , >>"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") >> >> If rst.EOF = False Then >> Do While rst.EOF = False >> stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, >>rst.Fields(1), >>Chr(0)) - 1) >> If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then >> intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 >> End If >> rst.MoveNext >> Loop >> CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount >> Else >> CountCurrentUsers = 0 >> End If >> >> rst.Close >> Set rst = Nothing >> >> Exit Function >> >>EH: >> Application.Echo True >> Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count >Current >>Users", "CountCurrentUsers") >> >>End Function >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >Respectfully, > >Christopher Hawkins >Managing Developer >http://www.christopherhawkins.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Respectfully, Christopher Hawkins Managing Developer http://www.christopherhawkins.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 10:59:05 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:59:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Gmail Invite (d) Message-ID: I am giving away 1 Gmail Invite, first to respond off list w/ a joke gets it :) -- -Francisco From kaupca at chevrontexaco.com Thu Aug 26 12:17:59 2004 From: kaupca at chevrontexaco.com (Kaup, Chester A) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:17:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: Focus on form in code Message-ID: <193572B4E0FC1744BEDFEE63F82CEC9E0273968D@bocnte2k4.boc.chevrontexaco.net> > I have a line of code in module that opens a form. The form opens fine > but then the code moves on to the next line and starts executing it. I > need the user to be able to enter data on the form. What do I need to > put in the code? Thanks > > Chester Kaup > Information Management Technician > IT-MidContinent/MidContinent Business Unit > CTN 8-687-7415 > Outside 432-687-7414 > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Aug 26 12:32:42 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:32:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Gmail Invite (d) References: Message-ID: <025e01c48b92$b13149e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> What's a Gmail invite? (Before I waste a good joke...) Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco Tapia" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:59 AM Subject: [AccessD] Gmail Invite (d) > I am giving away 1 Gmail Invite, first to respond off list w/ a joke gets it :) > -- > -Francisco > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From JColby at dispec.com Thu Aug 26 12:47:46 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:47:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDD8@DISABILITYINS01> The Insurance Call Center software I developed for DIS uses a fair amount of file manipulations. For example I export data to text files for a couple of different data sets to send off to the Insurer to update their system with the file statuses. These files start a claim at the insurer and then tell the insurer to pay the claim, how much and when. It is necessary to track these file exports pretty closely since if they don't go the Claimant doesn't get paid. I inherited code that did this process from the old system that I replaced and since it "mostly worked" I never rewrote it. The Insurer is moving to a new automated software that changes the way they do things so I am now converting that old system from using a word doc to hold the changes to using a fixed width field text file. The file will now be FTPd to a server instead of opened and read (manually keyed in) at the other end. Automation, gotta love it. One of the problems I encountered in the "old way" of doing things was that a process would export the file, attach the file to an email and pray that it made it out of the email server. If it didn't then we would manually monitor an email box where we sent the files (to ourselves) and if a file didn't go, we had to go manually build an email, find the file and attach it to the email and try again. Of course this new way gives me the opportunity to do things better (we hope!). One of the things I need to do is track the status of the file as it is exported and uploaded. My idea is to simply have processes that run. A file export process exports the file. A FTP process uploads the file. An Email process attaches files to emails and tries to send them. As processes handle files, they all need to log a status for the file. Rather than have code in each process that knows about table names, how to read / write the tables etc. I decided to build a set of classes that handles logging and reporting file statuses. There are two tables involved: atblFile FIL_ID Autonumber PK FIL_Spec The fully pathed file/name/extension of the file being processed FIL_Dte The date this record created FIL_Time The time this record created FIL_Cmpltd The date the processing successfully completed atblFileStatus FILST_ID Autonumber PK FILST_IDFIL The FK of the FILE record FILST_Status The text status of the file FILST_Dte The date this record created FILST_Time The time this record created I then built three classes: clsFileSupervisor, a supervisor class to manipulate the file records. clsFile, a file to store the data in a single record from atblFile clsFileStatus, a class to store each status record for a given file record. clsFileStatus has no processing at all, it just stores a status and has properties to return the pieces of the status record. clsFile is able to load the status records for the File PK, and instantiate clsFileStatus for each status, storing the classes in a collection. It is also able to create a new status record in the status table for the file it is processing. It also has properties for the file itself as well as a current status property and a property that can return the entire collection of statuses. clsFileSupervisor manages the process of building, reading and updating files and their statuses. It loads all the files that are not Cmpltd into classes and stores these file classes in a collection. It also can return a specific file class instance or the entire collection of file classes. Additionally, it monitors a message class. The message class has been discussed in various places in my previous ramblings, but is basically just a small class with two methods that can be called. Send(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) SendSimple(varMsg As Variant) These two methods do nothing more than raise an event Message() and MessageSimple() passing the parameters right back out. Thus any process can grab a pointer to the message class and send messages. This File Status Logger class can grab a pointer to the message class and sink the messages. Private WithEvents mclsMsg As dclsMsg Private Sub mclsMsg_Message(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, _ varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) ' 'messages sent using the more complex message() event will be scanned by the 'File Supervisor. If the To is "FileSuper" then the message will be processed here ' If varTo = "FileSuper" Then 'The Subject will be the File Spec 'The Msg will be the status 'Process the message, logging the filespec and status in the log table End If End Sub Messages have a To: which must be set to "FileSuper" in order for the file supervisor to handle the message. Any message sent on this message channel addressed To: FileSuper is assumed to have a Subject: of FileSpec (the path/name/extension of the file being processed) and a Message: of the status. Any such messages are grabbed by the supervisor class. If the filespec already exists in the table (and is loaded in the collection) then the existing clsFile logs the STATUS (the Message:) into atblFileStatus. If the FileSpec does not exist then a new File record (and class) is created and then the STATUS is logged (and a class created). The upshot of all this (and it's not THAT complicated), is that any process can log a file status simply by sending a message on the message channel. This eliminates having to build code in each class that manipulates a file to handle this status logging. The process could be implemented without the message class of course by loading and getting a pointer to the file logger, calling methods of that class directly. I just like the indirection allowed by the message class. In summary, I build processes that handle each step of manipulating a file, building the file and archiving it to disk, uploading it to the FTP server etc. Each process logs it's status via this set of File Status classes. Any process can also check the status of a file from this file supervisor to see whether a previous process is complete, whether a process failed etc. The "last process" class updates the Completed date in the File class to indicate that the file has successfully finished the entire handling process sequences, whatever that sequence may be. This should allow much more robust failure recovery, where any given process simply looks for files with a given current status and processes them, logging the updated status as they finish. Any failure allows the same process to retry later and if successful, log the process success in the file status log. The process classes will be responsible for sending email messages to myself and a "failure notify" list of any failed processes so that failures can be investigated. My intention with these rather long winded messages is to provide examples of how classes can be used to encapsulate processes and allow each such process to be self contained. Systems like this can be tested all by themselves without any of the surrounding processes since with a specified interface they don't depend on the other processes to be loaded and functioning. This allows testing as a "black box" that does what it is supposed to do. Poke it and see if it wiggles. Build file records, add statuses, read file properties, read file statuses and properties. These things should work precisely as designed regardless. Once this black box works, use it with the next black box to record the status of the file being processed by that black box. John W. Colby The DIS Database Guy From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 26 13:14:40 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:14:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes Message-ID: John, Until I read the last paragraph, I started to wonder where the question was. Not being mean...but next time, let us know earlier in the email that the post is informative only. Scott -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes The Insurance Call Center software I developed for DIS uses a fair amount of file manipulations. For example I export data to text files for a couple of different data sets to send off to the Insurer to update their system with the file statuses. These files start a claim at the insurer and then tell the insurer to pay the claim, how much and when. It is necessary to track these file exports pretty closely since if they don't go the Claimant doesn't get paid. I inherited code that did this process from the old system that I replaced and since it "mostly worked" I never rewrote it. The Insurer is moving to a new automated software that changes the way they do things so I am now converting that old system from using a word doc to hold the changes to using a fixed width field text file. The file will now be FTPd to a server instead of opened and read (manually keyed in) at the other end. Automation, gotta love it. One of the problems I encountered in the "old way" of doing things was that a process would export the file, attach the file to an email and pray that it made it out of the email server. If it didn't then we would manually monitor an email box where we sent the files (to ourselves) and if a file didn't go, we had to go manually build an email, find the file and attach it to the email and try again. Of course this new way gives me the opportunity to do things better (we hope!). One of the things I need to do is track the status of the file as it is exported and uploaded. My idea is to simply have processes that run. A file export process exports the file. A FTP process uploads the file. An Email process attaches files to emails and tries to send them. As processes handle files, they all need to log a status for the file. Rather than have code in each process that knows about table names, how to read / write the tables etc. I decided to build a set of classes that handles logging and reporting file statuses. There are two tables involved: atblFile FIL_ID Autonumber PK FIL_Spec The fully pathed file/name/extension of the file being processed FIL_Dte The date this record created FIL_Time The time this record created FIL_Cmpltd The date the processing successfully completed atblFileStatus FILST_ID Autonumber PK FILST_IDFIL The FK of the FILE record FILST_Status The text status of the file FILST_Dte The date this record created FILST_Time The time this record created I then built three classes: clsFileSupervisor, a supervisor class to manipulate the file records. clsFile, a file to store the data in a single record from atblFile clsFileStatus, a class to store each status record for a given file record. clsFileStatus has no processing at all, it just stores a status and has properties to return the pieces of the status record. clsFile is able to load the status records for the File PK, and instantiate clsFileStatus for each status, storing the classes in a collection. It is also able to create a new status record in the status table for the file it is processing. It also has properties for the file itself as well as a current status property and a property that can return the entire collection of statuses. clsFileSupervisor manages the process of building, reading and updating files and their statuses. It loads all the files that are not Cmpltd into classes and stores these file classes in a collection. It also can return a specific file class instance or the entire collection of file classes. Additionally, it monitors a message class. The message class has been discussed in various places in my previous ramblings, but is basically just a small class with two methods that can be called. Send(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) SendSimple(varMsg As Variant) These two methods do nothing more than raise an event Message() and MessageSimple() passing the parameters right back out. Thus any process can grab a pointer to the message class and send messages. This File Status Logger class can grab a pointer to the message class and sink the messages. Private WithEvents mclsMsg As dclsMsg Private Sub mclsMsg_Message(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, _ varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) ' 'messages sent using the more complex message() event will be scanned by the 'File Supervisor. If the To is "FileSuper" then the message will be processed here ' If varTo = "FileSuper" Then 'The Subject will be the File Spec 'The Msg will be the status 'Process the message, logging the filespec and status in the log table End If End Sub Messages have a To: which must be set to "FileSuper" in order for the file supervisor to handle the message. Any message sent on this message channel addressed To: FileSuper is assumed to have a Subject: of FileSpec (the path/name/extension of the file being processed) and a Message: of the status. Any such messages are grabbed by the supervisor class. If the filespec already exists in the table (and is loaded in the collection) then the existing clsFile logs the STATUS (the Message:) into atblFileStatus. If the FileSpec does not exist then a new File record (and class) is created and then the STATUS is logged (and a class created). The upshot of all this (and it's not THAT complicated), is that any process can log a file status simply by sending a message on the message channel. This eliminates having to build code in each class that manipulates a file to handle this status logging. The process could be implemented without the message class of course by loading and getting a pointer to the file logger, calling methods of that class directly. I just like the indirection allowed by the message class. In summary, I build processes that handle each step of manipulating a file, building the file and archiving it to disk, uploading it to the FTP server etc. Each process logs it's status via this set of File Status classes. Any process can also check the status of a file from this file supervisor to see whether a previous process is complete, whether a process failed etc. The "last process" class updates the Completed date in the File class to indicate that the file has successfully finished the entire handling process sequences, whatever that sequence may be. This should allow much more robust failure recovery, where any given process simply looks for files with a given current status and processes them, logging the updated status as they finish. Any failure allows the same process to retry later and if successful, log the process success in the file status log. The process classes will be responsible for sending email messages to myself and a "failure notify" list of any failed processes so that failures can be investigated. My intention with these rather long winded messages is to provide examples of how classes can be used to encapsulate processes and allow each such process to be self contained. Systems like this can be tested all by themselves without any of the surrounding processes since with a specified interface they don't depend on the other processes to be loaded and functioning. This allows testing as a "black box" that does what it is supposed to do. Poke it and see if it wiggles. Build file records, add statuses, read file properties, read file statuses and properties. These things should work precisely as designed regardless. Once this black box works, use it with the next black box to record the status of the file being processed by that black box. John W. Colby The DIS Database Guy -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 26 13:19:13 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:19:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material References: Message-ID: <412E29A1.5020202@shaw.ca> Here is some snippet code to call Excel's Descriptive Statistical Functions The first calls the basic Excel Functions, The second calls the Excel Solver and Analysis Pack functions which are essentially .xla files, these may have to installed via full install of Excel. If doing a heavy duty statistical analysis which has to be strongly QA'ed, I might be tempted to uses SAS or SPSS. Excel still has some petty glitches. like the Random function failing to being close to a truely random distribution after a point beyond a million calls. SAS has a training educational version for $125, it is limited to Datasets of 1000 points. I believe SAS came out with an Office addin in April, that allows calls from Word, Excel or Access. http://support.sas.com/news/insider/msaddin.html The graphing tool available to Office products is limited even in considering aesthetic presentations. So you might want to consider a 3'd party Active X control for graphical display ie. putting a jpeg in a report.. Sub FindMedian() 'set a reference to Excel object library 'uses linked Northwinds Product table Dim appXL As Excel.Application Dim dbs As Database, rst As Recordset Dim strSQL As String, intI As Integer Dim sngArray() As Single, sngMedian As Single ' Create SQL string. strSQL = "SELECT DISTINCTROW UnitPrice FROM Products ORDER BY UnitPrice;" ' Return reference to current database. Set dbs = CurrentDb ' Open dynaset-type recordset. Set rst = dbs.OpenRecordset(strSQL) ' Populate recordset. rst.MoveLast ' Return to beginning of recordset. rst.MoveFirst ' Redimension array based on recordset size. ReDim sngArray(0 To rst.RecordCount - 1) ' Populate array with values from recordset. For intI = 0 To UBound(sngArray) sngArray(intI) = rst!UnitPrice rst.MoveNext Next ' Create new instance of Excel Application object. Set appXL = CreateObject("Excel.Application") ' Pass array to Excel's Median function. sngMedian = appXL.Application.Median(sngArray()) Debug.Print sngMedian ' Close Excel. appXL.Quit ' Free object variables. Set appXL = Nothing Set dbs = Nothing End Sub ------------ 'sample call '?fLCM(24,36) ' Function fLCM(intA As Integer, intB As Integer) As Integer 'Least Common Multiple of Integers function 'set a reference to Excel object library Dim objXL As Excel.Application Dim strText As String Dim blnCheck As Boolean Set objXL = New Excel.Application strText = objXL.Application.LibraryPath Debug.Print strText With objXL blnCheck = .RegisterXLL(.Application.LibraryPath & "\solver\solver.dLL") Debug.Print blnCheck 'If .AddIns("Analysis Toolpak").Installed Then .Workbooks.Open (objXL.Application.LibraryPath & _ "\Analysis\atpvbaen.xla") .Workbooks("atpvbaen.xla").RunAutoMacros (xlAutoOpen) fLCM = .Application.Run("atpvbaen.xla!lcm", intA, intB) ' Else ' .Workbooks.VBProject.References.AddFromFile Filename:=obj.Application.LibraryPath & "\Analysis\atpvbaen.xla" 'fLCM = 0 'MsgBox "Can't Find Analysis Toolpak atpvbaen.xla" 'End If End With objXL.Quit Set objXL = Nothing End Function Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) wrote: >Jim, > >I wasn't offended by any means...honestly. It was all in jest to remind >myself that I can't ALWAYS do it all myself. > >Mark > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:15 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material > > >Mark, >I didn't mean to insinuate any limitation of your skill set. >Rather, it's better to have two sets of eyes on the prize...;) >Jim > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark >S. (Newport News) >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:18 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material > > >Jim, > >Well thank you for pointing out my obvious limitations;) I have a sneaking >suspicion that a mathematician may indeed be needed before this is all said >and done. I will have to keep that in mind so that I can bring in >assistance sooner rather than later. > > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:42 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material > > > >Mark, >We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) >of inspectors. >The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. >lugs). >All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including >equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is >done to determine the POD. >When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with >the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the >"FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician >didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't >needed. >Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down >into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. >For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of >Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the >components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a >select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query >is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using >the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final >query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. >The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is >placed in the text box of the report. >The formula is: >=Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]* >[R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-([ >C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N])) >*([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) > >For our purposes this works. > >My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. >Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually >on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and >analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually >collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step >when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it >was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each >component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. >have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do >they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've >earned it. > >Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each >formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the >calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report >that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many >queries) has taken several minutes to finish. > >HTH > >Best of luck. > >Jim > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark >S. (Newport News) >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM >To: [AccessD] >Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material > > >Group, > >Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing >sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and >graphing? > > >Mark > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu Aug 26 13:39:54 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:39:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: Thanks Marty. Desktop SAS...who knew? Thankfully, all the mainframe SAS code I utilize was written long before I came on board...all I have to do is maintain and hope nothing goes wrong. The only hiccup we've had was an OS update that necessitated a few library changes. Mark -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 2:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reference Material Here is some snippet code to call Excel's Descriptive Statistical Functions The first calls the basic Excel Functions, The second calls the Excel Solver and Analysis Pack functions which are essentially .xla files, these may have to installed via full install of Excel. If doing a heavy duty statistical analysis which has to be strongly QA'ed, I might be tempted to uses SAS or SPSS. Excel still has some petty glitches. like the Random function failing to being close to a truely random distribution after a point beyond a million calls. SAS has a training educational version for $125, it is limited to Datasets of 1000 points. I believe SAS came out with an Office addin in April, that allows calls from Word, Excel or Access. http://support.sas.com/news/insider/msaddin.html The graphing tool available to Office products is limited even in considering aesthetic presentations. So you might want to consider a 3'd party Active X control for graphical display ie. putting a jpeg in a report.. Sub FindMedian() 'set a reference to Excel object library 'uses linked Northwinds Product table Dim appXL As Excel.Application Dim dbs As Database, rst As Recordset Dim strSQL As String, intI As Integer Dim sngArray() As Single, sngMedian As Single ' Create SQL string. strSQL = "SELECT DISTINCTROW UnitPrice FROM Products ORDER BY UnitPrice;" ' Return reference to current database. Set dbs = CurrentDb ' Open dynaset-type recordset. Set rst = dbs.OpenRecordset(strSQL) ' Populate recordset. rst.MoveLast ' Return to beginning of recordset. rst.MoveFirst ' Redimension array based on recordset size. ReDim sngArray(0 To rst.RecordCount - 1) ' Populate array with values from recordset. For intI = 0 To UBound(sngArray) sngArray(intI) = rst!UnitPrice rst.MoveNext Next ' Create new instance of Excel Application object. Set appXL = CreateObject("Excel.Application") ' Pass array to Excel's Median function. sngMedian = appXL.Application.Median(sngArray()) Debug.Print sngMedian ' Close Excel. appXL.Quit ' Free object variables. Set appXL = Nothing Set dbs = Nothing End Sub ------------ 'sample call '?fLCM(24,36) ' Function fLCM(intA As Integer, intB As Integer) As Integer 'Least Common Multiple of Integers function 'set a reference to Excel object library Dim objXL As Excel.Application Dim strText As String Dim blnCheck As Boolean Set objXL = New Excel.Application strText = objXL.Application.LibraryPath Debug.Print strText With objXL blnCheck = .RegisterXLL(.Application.LibraryPath & "\solver\solver.dLL") Debug.Print blnCheck 'If .AddIns("Analysis Toolpak").Installed Then .Workbooks.Open (objXL.Application.LibraryPath & _ "\Analysis\atpvbaen.xla") .Workbooks("atpvbaen.xla").RunAutoMacros (xlAutoOpen) fLCM = .Application.Run("atpvbaen.xla!lcm", intA, intB) ' Else ' .Workbooks.VBProject.References.AddFromFile Filename:=obj.Application.LibraryPath & "\Analysis\atpvbaen.xla" 'fLCM = 0 'MsgBox "Can't Find Analysis Toolpak atpvbaen.xla" 'End If End With objXL.Quit Set objXL = Nothing End Function Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) wrote: >Jim, > >I wasn't offended by any means...honestly. It was all in jest to remind >myself that I can't ALWAYS do it all myself. > >Mark > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:15 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material > > >Mark, >I didn't mean to insinuate any limitation of your skill set. >Rather, it's better to have two sets of eyes on the prize...;) >Jim > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark >S. (Newport News) >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:18 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material > > >Jim, > >Well thank you for pointing out my obvious limitations;) I have a sneaking >suspicion that a mathematician may indeed be needed before this is all said >and done. I will have to keep that in mind so that I can bring in >assistance sooner rather than later. > > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:42 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material > > > >Mark, >We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) >of inspectors. >The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. >lugs). >All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including >equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is >done to determine the POD. >When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with >the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the >"FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician >didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't >needed. >Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down >into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. >For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of >Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the >components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a >select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query >is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using >the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final >query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. >The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is >placed in the text box of the report. >The formula is: >=Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2] * >[R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-( [ >C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]) ) >*([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) > >For our purposes this works. > >My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. >Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually >on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and >analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually >collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step >when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it >was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each >component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. >have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do >they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've >earned it. > >Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each >formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the >calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report >that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many >queries) has taken several minutes to finish. > >HTH > >Best of luck. > >Jim > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark >S. (Newport News) >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM >To: [AccessD] >Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material > > >Group, > >Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing >sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and >graphing? > > >Mark > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 13:44:43 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:44:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Gmail Invite (d) In-Reply-To: <025e01c48b92$b13149e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <025e01c48b92$b13149e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:32:42 -0700, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > What's a Gmail invite? (Before I waste a good joke...) The winner is Joe Rojas, Thanks Joe for a good blonde joke ;o), and being the first to reply off list :D. For those who haven't heard of Gmail (which I'm acctually surprised) http://gmail.google.com/gmail/help/about.html Gmail is google's answer to email, you get 1gb of email space, and their web interface is THE best hands down, no need for yahoo, no need for hotmail, GMail allows you to use "effective" spam blocking, and following a thread in GMail surpasses even Thunderbird's layout :) it effectively hides quoted text, and allows you to view it if you really want to... it's awesome. Joe, enjoy your new account :) I've been using Gmail for about 3 weeks, and was given a few Gmail Invites to give away, I naturally chose this and the dba-SqlServer list for giving away some invites :D -- -Francisco From kaupca at chevrontexaco.com Thu Aug 26 13:57:19 2004 From: kaupca at chevrontexaco.com (Kaup, Chester A) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:57:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: Focus on form in code Message-ID: <193572B4E0FC1744BEDFEE63F82CEC9E0273968E@bocnte2k4.boc.chevrontexaco.net> Problem solved Open form as a dialog. Chester Kaup Information Management Technician IT-MidContinent/MidContinent Business Unit CTN 8-687-7415 Outside 432-687-7414 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester A Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] FW: Focus on form in code > I have a line of code in module that opens a form. The form opens fine > but then the code moves on to the next line and starts executing it. I > need the user to be able to enter data on the form. What do I need to > put in the code? Thanks > > Chester Kaup > Information Management Technician IT-MidContinent/MidContinent > Business Unit CTN 8-687-7415 > Outside 432-687-7414 > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Aug 26 14:06:36 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:06:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE98@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> I am currently doing the following to create a recordet from an existing parameter query: qryString(7) = "qryPlanHistCYplan_Upload_Improved" Set qdfTemp(7) = dbs2.QueryDefs(qryString(7)) qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(1)) = intDept qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(2)) = intCo qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(3)) = strCatcode1 qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(5)) = strPlGroup Set recset(7) = qdfTemp(7).OpenRecordset() This works fine. However, I need to change parameter(4) into something like the following qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales or misc" I can't seem to get the syntax right. Can anyone tell me the correct syntax? TIA Jim Hale From kwilliam at ashlandnet.com Thu Aug 26 15:06:42 2004 From: kwilliam at ashlandnet.com (Keith Williamson) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:06:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report based on unbound fields on a form In-Reply-To: <002c01c48b11$b92cea90$4a619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <000c01c48ba8$34aa0220$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Is there a way to transfer data from unbound fields, on a form, to populate fields in a report?? Or do I have to create a temporary table to store the unbound data, and then base the report on that? Thanks in advance. Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 26 14:08:03 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:08:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed References: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412C3AA4.408@shaw.ca> <035b01c48afd$63dcf300$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <412E3513.7090306@shaw.ca> If you are going to get deeper into this. Here are two rough code snippets to switch languages on the fly for data entry in Access. One uses API calls, the other keyboard events. The Canadian Government sometimes specifies bilingual French-English form data entry. I dunno how to handle DBCS languages like Chinese Big 5. As they say, that is left for an exercise for the student. You probably fiddle around with the IME. Public Declare Function LoadKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" Alias _ "LoadKeyboardLayoutA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String, ByVal Flags As Long) As Long Private Declare Function ActivateKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" (ByVal HKL As Long, _ ByVal Flags As Long) As Long Private Declare Function GetKeyboardLayoutName Lib "user32" Alias _ "GetKeyboardLayoutNameA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String) As Long Const KL_NAMELENGTH = 9 Sub testarabic() Dim lRet As Long 'your language selection bar will have languages added if available on the machine. ' warning if bar isn't visible on screen taskbar or floating version, you may have to go to control panel to reset ' to proper language desired. lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For English Debug.Print lRet lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) Debug.Print lRet lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000401", 1) ' For Arabic Debug.Print lRet lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000401", 0) Debug.Print lRet lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00011009", 1) ' For FrenchCanadian Debug.Print lRet lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00011009", 0) Debug.Print lRet End Sub Sub resetenglish() Dim lRet As Long lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For US English Debug.Print lRet lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) Debug.Print lRet End Sub Sub whatiskeybd() Dim strName As String 'Create a buffer strName = String(KL_NAMELENGTH, 0) 'Get the keyboard layout name GetKeyboardLayoutName strName Debug.Print "Keyboard layout name: " & strName End Sub ------------------------------------------------------------------- Alternate method for bilingual entry on textboxes assumes you have only two languages on language bar or you are using only one hot key switch 'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/Unicode-KbdsonWindows.pdf 'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/nlsweb/default.asp?submitted=40d 'Part of the file Win32api.txt: ' ' VK_L VK_R - left and right Alt, Ctrl and Shift virtual keys. ' Used only as parameters to GetAsyncKeyState() and GetKeyState(). ' No other API or message will distinguish left and right keys in this 'way. ' / Public Const VK_LSHIFT = &HA0 Public Const VK_RSHIFT = &HA1 Public Const VK_LCONTROL = &HA2 Public Const VK_RCONTROL = &HA3 Public Const VK_LMENU = &HA4 Public Const VK_RMENU = &HA5 'What a weird name for the Alt-key. but it does use the menu Private Const VK_LWIN = &H5B 'Left window button Private Const VK_RETURN = &HD 'ENTER key Private Const VK_SHIFT = &H10 'SHIFT key Private Const VK_CONTROL = &H11 'CTRL key Private Const VK_MENU = &H12 'ALT key Private Const VK_PAUSE = &H13 'PAUSE key Private Const VK_CAPITAL = &H14 'CAPS LOCK key Private Const VK_SNAPSHOT = &H2C 'Print Screen Private Const VK_APPS = &H5D 'Applications key on a Microsoft Natural Keyboard 'from http://support.microsoft.com/view/dev.asp?kb=242971 Const GW_HWNDFIRST = 0 Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 Private Const KEYEVENTF_KEYUP = &H2 Private Declare Sub keybd_event Lib "user32" (ByVal bVk As Byte, _ ByVal bScan As Byte, ByVal dwFlags As Long, ByVal dwExtraInfo As Long) Sub ShiftToLanguage() 'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox 'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key 'order of pressing important keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, 0, 0 keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock 'has been left on keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 Debug.Print "Shift" DoEvents End Sub Sub ShiftToLanguageBack() 'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox 'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key 'order of pressing important keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, 0, 0 keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock 'has been left on keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 Debug.Print "Shift Back" DoEvents End Sub Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >Marty: > >Don't know exactly how I did it, but I got the alternate keyboard. AND I >can key the accent marks directly in an Access table now. > >Thanks to all > >Best, > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:07 AM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > > > > >>Another Method >> >>Win XP Control Panel --> Regional Language Settings--> Languages >>--Details --> Installed services >> Add the Spanish Keyboard in addition to English. >> >>Other button option selections >> >>Language -choose to float Keyboard Language Bar on Screen as transparent >>or in tasktray >>I prefer floating bar rather cluttering TaskTray icon >> >>Key Settings choose a hotkey to switch language keyboard. >> >>This will give you a floating keyboard selection bar >> >>Defualt To change language keyboards when typing toggle ALT - Right Shift >> >> You can also do this by VBA code. I have used to sense Keyboard >>language state and switch between French or English Text boxes on same >> >> >form > > >>There are probably pictures of spanish keyboard mappings at >>http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev >> >>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >> >> >> >>>Stuart: >>> >>> >>>Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when >>>keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the >>> >>> >mdb > > >>>where I have to key all this Spanish. >>> >>>Rocky >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Stuart McLachlan" >>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> >>>Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:42 PM >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a >>>>>terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the >>>>>vowels. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut and >>>>paste. >>>> >>>>>From the Word Help: >>>>To insert Press >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter >>>> >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter >>>> >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter >>>> >>>>?, ?, ? >>>>?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>> >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, Y CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter >>>> >>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A >>>> >>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A >>>> >>>>o, O CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O >>>> >>>>?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C >>>> >>>>?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D >>>> >>>>?, ? CTRL+/, o or O >>>> >>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? >>>> >>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! >>>>-- >>>>Stuart >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 26 17:21:25 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:21:25 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE98@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <412EEF05.24384.3788899@lexacorp.com.pg> On 26 Aug 2004 at 14:06, Hale, Jim wrote: > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(5)) = strPlGroup > > Set recset(7) = qdfTemp(7).OpenRecordset() > > This works fine. However, I need to change parameter(4) into something like > the following > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales or misc" Try "'sales' or 'query'" ie put the individual items in single quotes.-- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 26 17:28:15 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:28:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDD8@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <412EF09F.8636.37ECA39@lexacorp.com.pg> On 26 Aug 2004 at 13:47, Colby, John wrote: > FILST_Dte The date this record created > FILST_Time The time this record created > Why are you using two different fields for date and time? -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 26 17:32:56 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:32:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example In-Reply-To: <184670-22004842615594026@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <412EF1B8.10959.38313D1@lexacorp.com.pg> > CountCurrentUsers? Is that a native Access function or something you > wrote yourself? That's what you get with top posting and no trimming. The important stuff gets lost at the end of the message It was still there at the bottom of your reply: > >>Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer References: <002c01c48b11$b92cea90$4a619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <412EF30D.28699.3884662@lexacorp.com.pg> On 26 Aug 2004 at 16:06, Keith Williamson wrote: > Is there a way to transfer data from unbound fields, on a form, to populate > fields in a report?? > If the form is still open when the report is opened, just set the control source of the report fields to something like "=Forms!frmParameterForm.txtFirstParameter" In A2002, I believe (I only do up to A2K) you can use OpenArgs in reports as well as forms to pass parameters when the report is opened. You can store parameters in Global variables of Static functions which you initialise in the forma nd then read in the report. -- Stuart From davide at dalyn.co.nz Thu Aug 26 18:48:08 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:48:08 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040827112819.00b2c010@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Group, I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or DoCmd.TransferText commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in MSAccess.exe). Examples are - DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, strTableName, strFullName DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, False DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, "dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", strFullName DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, False The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with Office 97 and Office XP). I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on my machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program Files\Microsoft Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version 10.0.2627.1. Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park Wellington, New Zealand Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 Mobile 027-280-9348 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 26 18:55:59 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:55:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes In-Reply-To: <412EF09F.8636.37ECA39@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001e01c48bc8$40c1a890$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> "To make you ask questions" ;-) Can you tell I have a 3 year old asking "why...?" all day long? The answer is that it is easier to filter the dates. I only want the times for knowing the specific time of day that a process occurred. I use the dates to decide when something happens. It's just easier to use. There will be a handful - 10 to 20 - of these records per day so it's not like a million a month or something. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 6:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] File status logging classes On 26 Aug 2004 at 13:47, Colby, John wrote: > FILST_Dte The date this record created > FILST_Time The time this record created > Why are you using two different fields for date and time? -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Aug 26 18:59:10 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:59:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDD8@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: Fantastic John Much Appreciated!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes The Insurance Call Center software I developed for DIS uses a fair amount of file manipulations. For example I export data to text files for a couple of different data sets to send off to the Insurer to update their system with the file statuses. These files start a claim at the insurer and then tell the insurer to pay the claim, how much and when. It is necessary to track these file exports pretty closely since if they don't go the Claimant doesn't get paid. I inherited code that did this process from the old system that I replaced and since it "mostly worked" I never rewrote it. The Insurer is moving to a new automated software that changes the way they do things so I am now converting that old system from using a word doc to hold the changes to using a fixed width field text file. The file will now be FTPd to a server instead of opened and read (manually keyed in) at the other end. Automation, gotta love it. One of the problems I encountered in the "old way" of doing things was that a process would export the file, attach the file to an email and pray that it made it out of the email server. If it didn't then we would manually monitor an email box where we sent the files (to ourselves) and if a file didn't go, we had to go manually build an email, find the file and attach it to the email and try again. Of course this new way gives me the opportunity to do things better (we hope!). One of the things I need to do is track the status of the file as it is exported and uploaded. My idea is to simply have processes that run. A file export process exports the file. A FTP process uploads the file. An Email process attaches files to emails and tries to send them. As processes handle files, they all need to log a status for the file. Rather than have code in each process that knows about table names, how to read / write the tables etc. I decided to build a set of classes that handles logging and reporting file statuses. There are two tables involved: atblFile FIL_ID Autonumber PK FIL_Spec The fully pathed file/name/extension of the file being processed FIL_Dte The date this record created FIL_Time The time this record created FIL_Cmpltd The date the processing successfully completed atblFileStatus FILST_ID Autonumber PK FILST_IDFIL The FK of the FILE record FILST_Status The text status of the file FILST_Dte The date this record created FILST_Time The time this record created I then built three classes: clsFileSupervisor, a supervisor class to manipulate the file records. clsFile, a file to store the data in a single record from atblFile clsFileStatus, a class to store each status record for a given file record. clsFileStatus has no processing at all, it just stores a status and has properties to return the pieces of the status record. clsFile is able to load the status records for the File PK, and instantiate clsFileStatus for each status, storing the classes in a collection. It is also able to create a new status record in the status table for the file it is processing. It also has properties for the file itself as well as a current status property and a property that can return the entire collection of statuses. clsFileSupervisor manages the process of building, reading and updating files and their statuses. It loads all the files that are not Cmpltd into classes and stores these file classes in a collection. It also can return a specific file class instance or the entire collection of file classes. Additionally, it monitors a message class. The message class has been discussed in various places in my previous ramblings, but is basically just a small class with two methods that can be called. Send(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) SendSimple(varMsg As Variant) These two methods do nothing more than raise an event Message() and MessageSimple() passing the parameters right back out. Thus any process can grab a pointer to the message class and send messages. This File Status Logger class can grab a pointer to the message class and sink the messages. Private WithEvents mclsMsg As dclsMsg Private Sub mclsMsg_Message(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, _ varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) ' 'messages sent using the more complex message() event will be scanned by the 'File Supervisor. If the To is "FileSuper" then the message will be processed here ' If varTo = "FileSuper" Then 'The Subject will be the File Spec 'The Msg will be the status 'Process the message, logging the filespec and status in the log table End If End Sub Messages have a To: which must be set to "FileSuper" in order for the file supervisor to handle the message. Any message sent on this message channel addressed To: FileSuper is assumed to have a Subject: of FileSpec (the path/name/extension of the file being processed) and a Message: of the status. Any such messages are grabbed by the supervisor class. If the filespec already exists in the table (and is loaded in the collection) then the existing clsFile logs the STATUS (the Message:) into atblFileStatus. If the FileSpec does not exist then a new File record (and class) is created and then the STATUS is logged (and a class created). The upshot of all this (and it's not THAT complicated), is that any process can log a file status simply by sending a message on the message channel. This eliminates having to build code in each class that manipulates a file to handle this status logging. The process could be implemented without the message class of course by loading and getting a pointer to the file logger, calling methods of that class directly. I just like the indirection allowed by the message class. In summary, I build processes that handle each step of manipulating a file, building the file and archiving it to disk, uploading it to the FTP server etc. Each process logs it's status via this set of File Status classes. Any process can also check the status of a file from this file supervisor to see whether a previous process is complete, whether a process failed etc. The "last process" class updates the Completed date in the File class to indicate that the file has successfully finished the entire handling process sequences, whatever that sequence may be. This should allow much more robust failure recovery, where any given process simply looks for files with a given current status and processes them, logging the updated status as they finish. Any failure allows the same process to retry later and if successful, log the process success in the file status log. The process classes will be responsible for sending email messages to myself and a "failure notify" list of any failed processes so that failures can be investigated. My intention with these rather long winded messages is to provide examples of how classes can be used to encapsulate processes and allow each such process to be self contained. Systems like this can be tested all by themselves without any of the surrounding processes since with a specified interface they don't depend on the other processes to be loaded and functioning. This allows testing as a "black box" that does what it is supposed to do. Poke it and see if it wiggles. Build file records, add statuses, read file properties, read file statuses and properties. These things should work precisely as designed regardless. Once this black box works, use it with the next black box to record the status of the file being processed by that black box. John W. Colby The DIS Database Guy -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 26 19:09:25 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:09:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash Message-ID: We've had problems with TransferText (we use TransferSpreadsheet very rarely) in AXP mdbs on WinXP Pro and Win2k. It will run nicely for a while and then suddenly blow up entirely. It appears to be a Jet problem, since we're stress testing by handling the same file repeatedly, and it goes happily along importing for a while and then fails completely. The interesting thing is that once it fails, the only cure is to close the Access session and restart it because TransferText won't work even from the code window and you can't do an import from the UI either. We finally resorted to including an automatic restart capability in our apps because the fall over point differed between machines and each machine seemed to have a magic number of iterations before it crashed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: David Emerson [mailto:davide at dalyn.co.nz] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 4:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash Group, I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or DoCmd.TransferText commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in MSAccess.exe). Examples are - DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, strTableName, strFullName DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, False DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, "dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", strFullName DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, False The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with Office 97 and Office XP). I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on my machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program Files\Microsoft Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version 10.0.2627.1. Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park Wellington, New Zealand Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 Mobile 027-280-9348 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davide at dalyn.co.nz Thu Aug 26 19:24:49 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:24:49 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040827121721.00b97cb8@mail.dalyn.co.nz> I read with interest your recent thread on this one. Unfortunately in my case they are not even running once. I could rewrite my code so that I read/write in the files line by line (I have other code in the same database which does this successfully). However, it would make it much easier if I could get it to work again as before. David At 26/08/2004, you wrote: >We've had problems with TransferText (we use TransferSpreadsheet very >rarely) in AXP mdbs on WinXP Pro and Win2k. It will run nicely for a >while and then suddenly blow up entirely. It appears to be a Jet >problem, since we're stress testing by handling the same file >repeatedly, and it goes happily along importing for a while and then >fails completely. The interesting thing is that once it fails, the only >cure is to close the Access session and restart it because TransferText >won't work even from the code window and you can't do an import from the >UI either. We finally resorted to including an automatic restart >capability in our apps because the fall over point differed between >machines and each machine seemed to have a magic number of iterations >before it crashed. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Emerson [mailto:davide at dalyn.co.nz] >Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 4:48 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash > > >Group, > >I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 >Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or DoCmd.TransferText >commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in MSAccess.exe). > >Examples are - > >DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, >strTableName, >strFullName >DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, >False DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >"dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet >acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >"dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile >DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", >strFullName DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", >DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True >DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", >DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True >DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, >False > >The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with >Office >97 and Office XP). > >I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. > >Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of >the >olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on my >machine >is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program Files\Microsoft Access >Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version 10.0.2627.1. > >Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? > > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >Wellington, New Zealand >Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 >Mobile 027-280-9348 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 26 20:20:49 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:20:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001f01c48bd4$1a3205b0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Scott, you are correct. I will do that. Sorry, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 2:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] File status logging classes John, Until I read the last paragraph, I started to wonder where the question was. Not being mean...but next time, let us know earlier in the email that the post is informative only. Scott -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes The Insurance Call Center software I developed for DIS uses a fair amount of file manipulations. For example I export data to text files for a couple of different data sets to send off to the Insurer to update their system with the file statuses. These files start a claim at the insurer and then tell the insurer to pay the claim, how much and when. It is necessary to track these file exports pretty closely since if they don't go the Claimant doesn't get paid. I inherited code that did this process from the old system that I replaced and since it "mostly worked" I never rewrote it. The Insurer is moving to a new automated software that changes the way they do things so I am now converting that old system from using a word doc to hold the changes to using a fixed width field text file. The file will now be FTPd to a server instead of opened and read (manually keyed in) at the other end. Automation, gotta love it. One of the problems I encountered in the "old way" of doing things was that a process would export the file, attach the file to an email and pray that it made it out of the email server. If it didn't then we would manually monitor an email box where we sent the files (to ourselves) and if a file didn't go, we had to go manually build an email, find the file and attach it to the email and try again. Of course this new way gives me the opportunity to do things better (we hope!). One of the things I need to do is track the status of the file as it is exported and uploaded. My idea is to simply have processes that run. A file export process exports the file. A FTP process uploads the file. An Email process attaches files to emails and tries to send them. As processes handle files, they all need to log a status for the file. Rather than have code in each process that knows about table names, how to read / write the tables etc. I decided to build a set of classes that handles logging and reporting file statuses. There are two tables involved: atblFile FIL_ID Autonumber PK FIL_Spec The fully pathed file/name/extension of the file being processed FIL_Dte The date this record created FIL_Time The time this record created FIL_Cmpltd The date the processing successfully completed atblFileStatus FILST_ID Autonumber PK FILST_IDFIL The FK of the FILE record FILST_Status The text status of the file FILST_Dte The date this record created FILST_Time The time this record created I then built three classes: clsFileSupervisor, a supervisor class to manipulate the file records. clsFile, a file to store the data in a single record from atblFile clsFileStatus, a class to store each status record for a given file record. clsFileStatus has no processing at all, it just stores a status and has properties to return the pieces of the status record. clsFile is able to load the status records for the File PK, and instantiate clsFileStatus for each status, storing the classes in a collection. It is also able to create a new status record in the status table for the file it is processing. It also has properties for the file itself as well as a current status property and a property that can return the entire collection of statuses. clsFileSupervisor manages the process of building, reading and updating files and their statuses. It loads all the files that are not Cmpltd into classes and stores these file classes in a collection. It also can return a specific file class instance or the entire collection of file classes. Additionally, it monitors a message class. The message class has been discussed in various places in my previous ramblings, but is basically just a small class with two methods that can be called. Send(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) SendSimple(varMsg As Variant) These two methods do nothing more than raise an event Message() and MessageSimple() passing the parameters right back out. Thus any process can grab a pointer to the message class and send messages. This File Status Logger class can grab a pointer to the message class and sink the messages. Private WithEvents mclsMsg As dclsMsg Private Sub mclsMsg_Message(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, _ varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) ' 'messages sent using the more complex message() event will be scanned by the 'File Supervisor. If the To is "FileSuper" then the message will be processed here ' If varTo = "FileSuper" Then 'The Subject will be the File Spec 'The Msg will be the status 'Process the message, logging the filespec and status in the log table End If End Sub Messages have a To: which must be set to "FileSuper" in order for the file supervisor to handle the message. Any message sent on this message channel addressed To: FileSuper is assumed to have a Subject: of FileSpec (the path/name/extension of the file being processed) and a Message: of the status. Any such messages are grabbed by the supervisor class. If the filespec already exists in the table (and is loaded in the collection) then the existing clsFile logs the STATUS (the Message:) into atblFileStatus. If the FileSpec does not exist then a new File record (and class) is created and then the STATUS is logged (and a class created). The upshot of all this (and it's not THAT complicated), is that any process can log a file status simply by sending a message on the message channel. This eliminates having to build code in each class that manipulates a file to handle this status logging. The process could be implemented without the message class of course by loading and getting a pointer to the file logger, calling methods of that class directly. I just like the indirection allowed by the message class. In summary, I build processes that handle each step of manipulating a file, building the file and archiving it to disk, uploading it to the FTP server etc. Each process logs it's status via this set of File Status classes. Any process can also check the status of a file from this file supervisor to see whether a previous process is complete, whether a process failed etc. The "last process" class updates the Completed date in the File class to indicate that the file has successfully finished the entire handling process sequences, whatever that sequence may be. This should allow much more robust failure recovery, where any given process simply looks for files with a given current status and processes them, logging the updated status as they finish. Any failure allows the same process to retry later and if successful, log the process success in the file status log. The process classes will be responsible for sending email messages to myself and a "failure notify" list of any failed processes so that failures can be investigated. My intention with these rather long winded messages is to provide examples of how classes can be used to encapsulate processes and allow each such process to be self contained. Systems like this can be tested all by themselves without any of the surrounding processes since with a specified interface they don't depend on the other processes to be loaded and functioning. This allows testing as a "black box" that does what it is supposed to do. Poke it and see if it wiggles. Build file records, add statuses, read file properties, read file statuses and properties. These things should work precisely as designed regardless. Once this black box works, use it with the next black box to record the status of the file being processed by that black box. John W. Colby The DIS Database Guy From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 26 20:22:09 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:22:09 -0400 Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002001c48bd4$4956a800$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Rotfl. Mysterious? Desirable? It's not exactly a product. And yes, you need flash controls to get at the pages. Is it your browser? Have you told it not to load flash controls perhaps? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Conscience got the better of me, John, and I visited your site again to find the mysterious yet desired file, C2DbFW3G. Maybe they are rendered unnavigable to your fans in Eurpope, but the navigation buttons are in a mutinous mood over here and won't respond. Thought you should know I haven't forgotten. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else ROTFL. I'm here. And yes, write a class, which you will then put in your framework. Use SysVars to turn it on and off. If you have any questions what I am referring to go to: www.colbyconsulting.com Click C2DbFW3G. Start reading the lectures on classes ... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Aug 26 20:59:42 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:59:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example In-Reply-To: <13252664.1093536157001.JavaMail.root@sniper11.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000601c48bd9$85e9e980$de1811d8@danwaters> Hello Chris! The CountCurrentUsers function is very new. In fact, its first publication was in the bottom half of my original email!! Sorry, I just had to do it! All the Best! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:00 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Sure, I'll hunt it down. It's on one of the zip disks in that stack over there...*pointing to a mountain of storage media*. CountCurrentUsers? Is that a native Access function or something you wrote yourself? I haven't heard of that one. But then again, I"m not as active in Access as I was a few years ago, so I may not be hip to the newest stuff. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: dwaters at usinternet.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 07:29:57 -0500 >Chris, > >The function called CountCurrentUsers will prevent the CompactBE >procedure >from running until the last user is exiting. > >I like your VB utility approach. My system also has a 'shutdown' >time >period during the night so that backup processes work well. This >would be a >good time for a scheduled compact. > >There's nothing retentive about it! I've had a 20 Mb BE grow to 80 >Mb - >this caused the IT dept. to start an investigation as to why they >were >having network problems. They weren't aware that they needed to >compact the >BE regularly. So, a method to automatically compact the BE avoids >the whole >issue. > >Chris - would it be possible for you to post the VB utility code, or >to make >it available to the folks on this list? > >Thanks! >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > >What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the >back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? > >Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a >database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients >usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. > >-C- > >---- Original Message ---- >From: dwaters at usinternet.com >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example >Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 > >>Hello to All! >> >>I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE >>would >>also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the >>BE to >>auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application >>and then >>closed. >> >>With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this >>code to >>compact the BE >>when the FE is closed by the last person. >> >>Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close >>option to >>true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be >>asked to >>enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their >>FE. >> >>You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit >>button is >>the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) >>When you >>push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before >>using the >>DoCmd.Quit method. >> >>I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will >>work for >>everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! >> >>Thanks! >>Dan Waters >>ProMation Systems, Inc. >> >>PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. >> >> >> >>'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' >> >>Option Compare Database >>Option Explicit >> >>Public Sub CompactBE() >>On Error GoTo EH >> >> Dim stgPath As String >> Dim blnExclusive As Boolean >> Dim appAccess As Access.Application >> Dim varReturn As Variant >> >> If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then >> Exit Sub >> End If >> >> stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" >> '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting >> blnExclusive = True >> >> Set appAccess = New Access.Application >> >> varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") >> >> appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive >> '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens >>quickly! >> appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase >> appAccess.Quit >> >> varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) >> >> Exit Sub >> >>EH: >> Application.Echo True >> Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", >>"CompactBE") >> >>End Sub >> >>Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer >>On Error GoTo EH >> >> Dim con As New ADODB.Connection >> Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset >> Dim stgAccessVersion As String >> Dim intUserCount As Integer >> Dim stgUserName As String >> >> stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) >> >> '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema >>rowset _ >> in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ >> reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ >> listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets >> >> Select Case stgAccessVersion >> Case "9.0" >> '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access >>2000 >> con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data >>Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" >> Case "10.0" >> '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >>2002 or >>2003 >> Set con = CurrentProject.Connection >> Case "11.0" >> '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >>2002 or >>2003 >> Set con = CurrentProject.Connection >> End Select >> >> Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , >>"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") >> >> If rst.EOF = False Then >> Do While rst.EOF = False >> stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, >>rst.Fields(1), >>Chr(0)) - 1) >> If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then >> intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 >> End If >> rst.MoveNext >> Loop >> CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount >> Else >> CountCurrentUsers = 0 >> End If >> >> rst.Close >> Set rst = Nothing >> >> Exit Function >> >>EH: >> Application.Echo True >> Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count >Current >>Users", "CountCurrentUsers") >> >>End Function >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >Respectfully, > >Christopher Hawkins >Managing Developer >http://www.christopherhawkins.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Respectfully, Christopher Hawkins Managing Developer http://www.christopherhawkins.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 26 22:09:35 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 23:09:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Gmail Invite (d) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <034e01c48be3$4852a7b0$6601a8c0@rock> I made this one up, so chances are you won't get any duplicates.... As the hooker working a sushi bar said, "This rubber tastes like octopus." A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Gmail Invite (d) I am giving away 1 Gmail Invite, first to respond off list w/ a joke gets it :) -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Fri Aug 27 02:52:31 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:52:31 +0100 Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: Yes, that's probably it. The firewall here was built to withstand a bush invasion. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 27 August 2004 02:22 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Rotfl. Mysterious? Desirable? It's not exactly a product. And yes, --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri Aug 27 04:44:44 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:44:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - Need Outlook Guru Message-ID: <20040827094442.5864F252DD5@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Great news Darren. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - Need Outlook Guru Date: 26/08/04 02:11 > > Thanks Andy > Yes I did get it working > And yes I looped throuh the Appointments collection till I found > A matching EntryID > > Many thanks > > BTW work has firmed up a bit - Management have stopped the redundancy talks > For at least 1 year (maybe 2) woo hoo > > Have a great day > > Darren > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Wednesday, 25 August 2004 5:30 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - Need Outlook > Guru > > > Darren > > Just thrashing ideas but looking at the Outlook Help they construct it like > this: > > Set myAppt = objFolder.Items.Find("[EntryID] = > ""00000000B5860CB6D252A64BB055F39CD7DABCC824332000""") > > Have you tried that? Of course you have. > > If you can't get Find working would it be worth trying a For Each loop > through the Items collection testing for your EntryId? Long way round but > might get you moving. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > > Sent: 25 August 2004 04:06 > > To: AccessD > > Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - > > Need Outlook Guru > > > > > > Hi all > > Need Outlook guru assistance > > I have managed to create an Outlook Calendar appointment from > > access - excellent, and I am capturing the calendar item's > > Unique ID called EntryID > > > > Now does anyone know how I can delete the same calendar item > > using the EntryID The code below NEARLY works, but it dies on > > the line about finding a rec > > Based on the EntryID > > I have scoured the net for examples to delete calendar items > > and just can't find any. Another 2 days wasted <sigh> > > > > Many thanks in advance > > > > Darren > > > > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > > """""""""""""" > > Function somenewfunction() > > > > Dim ol As Outlook.Application > > Dim olns As Outlook.NameSpace > > Dim objFolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder > > Dim AllAppts As Outlook.Items > > Dim myAppt As Outlook.AppointmentItem > > > > > > Set ol = New Outlook.Application > > Set olns = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI") > > Set objFolder = olns.GetDefaultFolder(olFolderCalendar) > > Set AllAppts = objFolder.Items > > Set myAppt = AllAppts.Find("[EntryID] = _ > > ""00000000B5860CB6D252A64BB055F39CD7DABCC824332000""") > > > > MsgBox myAppt.Subject > > > > End Function > > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > > """"""""""""" > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 27 09:50:33 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:50:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDD3@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <000b01c48c45$382be790$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed things up I am guessing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 27 10:21:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:21:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <000b01c48c45$382be790$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> References: <000b01c48c45$382be790$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <923281527.20040827172132@cactus.dk> Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client wants > to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed things up I > am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 27 10:38:40 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:38:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <923281527.20040827172132@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000c01c48c4b$f0ad94c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Gustav, I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > things up I am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kwilliam at ashlandnet.com Fri Aug 27 10:39:00 2004 From: kwilliam at ashlandnet.com (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:39:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? In-Reply-To: <923281527.20040827172132@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000101c48c4b$f98f9930$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Aug 27 10:54:18 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:54:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE9B@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Thanks, but no joy. I think what I am attempting to do is not possible. The workaround is to reopen the recordset for each change in the parameter. Thanks anyway Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query On 26 Aug 2004 at 14:06, Hale, Jim wrote: > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(5)) = strPlGroup > > Set recset(7) = qdfTemp(7).OpenRecordset() > > This works fine. However, I need to change parameter(4) into something like > the following > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales or misc" Try "'sales' or 'query'" ie put the individual items in single quotes.-- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 27 11:13:38 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:13:38 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Desktop Connection Client 1.0.2 for Mac OS X Message-ID: <6826407592.20040827181338@cactus.dk> Hi all Anyone having experiences with this, running Access or anything else? http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads.aspx?pid=download&location=/mac/DOWNLOAD/MISC/RDC.xml&secid=80&ssid=9&flgnosysreq=False If connecting to a Terminal Server what are the licensing for this for, say, 10 users? What that be a Windows 2003 server with 10 CALs? /gustav From JHewson at karta.com Fri Aug 27 11:16:18 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:16:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E280@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Have you tried: qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" OR "misc" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Thanks, but no joy. I think what I am attempting to do is not possible. The workaround is to reopen the recordset for each change in the parameter. Thanks anyway Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query On 26 Aug 2004 at 14:06, Hale, Jim wrote: > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(5)) = strPlGroup > > Set recset(7) = qdfTemp(7).OpenRecordset() > > This works fine. However, I need to change parameter(4) into something like > the following > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales or misc" Try "'sales' or 'query'" ie put the individual items in single quotes.-- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Aug 27 11:28:49 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:28:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F02D08857@xlivmbx21.aig.com> If this table has a sequentially numbered Identity field (if that's the correct name for the SQL version of an AutoNumber) then just run a select query with the condition (Mod 100 = 0) on the Identity field. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record > > Gustav, > > I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We > need > to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. > Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't > work > at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull > every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would > give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't > be lightning fast but at least doable. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record > > > Hi John > > > > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > > things up I am guessing. > > To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? > > If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 27 11:35:59 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:35:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE9B@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> References: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE9B@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <027747889.20040827183559@cactus.dk> Hi Jim If you meant that the parameter value could be either "sales" or "misc", you are right. You need two parameters to do that - and it wouldn't look nice. Your solution is what I would choose. /gustav > Thanks, but no joy. I think what I am attempting to do is not possible. The > workaround is to reopen the recordset for each change in the parameter. > Thanks anyway > Jim Hale > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 5:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query > On 26 Aug 2004 at 14:06, Hale, Jim wrote: >> qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" >> qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(5)) = strPlGroup >> >> Set recset(7) = qdfTemp(7).OpenRecordset() >> >> This works fine. However, I need to change parameter(4) into something like >> the following >> qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales or misc" > Try "'sales' or 'query'" > ie put the individual items in single quotes.-- > Stuart From chizotz at mchsi.com Fri Aug 27 11:38:54 2004 From: chizotz at mchsi.com (chizotz at mchsi.com) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:38:54 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record Message-ID: <082720041638.2957.5bbb@mchsi.com> John, I have to do this every year. The newspaper industry has a regulatory agency called ABC that requires Nth Factor sampling for audit purposes. They hand you a requirement such as "start with subscriber 112 and give me every 96th subscriber after that". This is from an unordered set of subscriber data, to end up with a random sample. The numbers they hand you are based on your total number of subscribers and will theoretically result in a random sample of subscribers sufficiently large enough to represent the entire set. Your client may want this for a similar reason. I'm sure you've already considered this but... It may not be the "best" approach, but I just create a temp table and then loop through the unordered data to the start row and save that and every Nth row after that to the temp table. It's straightforward and easy to maintain, and in my case it's fast enough to not be too concerned with efficiency (once a year, who cares how long it takes to run as long as it isn't for days or something). That may not be workable for your case though, if they want this on demand and to run very quickly and there are a large number of records. Ron > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client wants > to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed things up I > am guessing. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 27 11:54:08 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:54:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040827165403.HYNT1789.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I'm having an awful time getting it installed. For some reason, I get a partial install -- no management tools. I've tried every possible install trick I can think of. Anyone else had this problem? Susan H. Impressive.... :-) I have been holding back waiting for more comment and detail. The information supplied at the Microsoft site never seems to fully answer the questions as it is created by a sales team and not technical developers. Now I wonder if you can create the initial DB in SQL2000 or 2003, export the design and are there sufficient management tools to allow importing that design into SQL Server Express? From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 27 12:20:26 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:20:26 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: <20040827165403.HYNT1789.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040827165403.HYNT1789.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <10030415525.20040827192026@cactus.dk> Hi Susan There are no management tools - yet. /gustav > I'm having an awful time getting it installed. For some reason, I get a > partial install -- no management tools. I've tried every possible install > trick I can think of. From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 27 12:22:26 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:22:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <000c01c48c4b$f0ad94c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: John, While not returning every 100th record, this will return unique records. The NEWID() function randomly sorts the input table INSERT INTO tmpCustomer (CustKey) SELECT CustomerID FROM Customers WHERE CustomerID IN (SELECT TOP 650000 CustomerID FROM Customers ORDER BY NEWID()) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Gustav, I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > things up I am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 27 12:38:46 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:38:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: <10030415525.20040827192026@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040827173842.CXYI1758.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I'm talking about SQL Computer Manager. I can get sqlcmd up, but as soon as I type, it closes. But it's fixed now -- no clue. I uninstalled and then reinstalled using Windows Add/Remove instead of the install wizard that comes with the exe and now it's there. Just odd -- I've worked with this for over a week. ;( Susan H. Hi Susan There are no management tools - yet. From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 27 12:46:54 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:46:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <923281527.20040827172132@cactus.dk> References: <000b01c48c45$382be790$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> <923281527.20040827172132@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <7132003067.20040827194654@cactus.dk> Hi John OK, that's a lot or records. You could use RAND() to pick the sample. It would require one loop through the table not even selecting on the primary index. Create an expression with RAND() returning numbers between 1 and 100. Select on this equal any value (from 1 to 100, it doesn't matter per definition) and you will have a recordset of count/100 records. I can't imagine any way to do this faster. /gustav >> Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client wants >> to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed things up I >> am guessing. > To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? > If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. From kwilliam at ashlandnet.com Fri Aug 27 12:45:17 2004 From: kwilliam at ashlandnet.com (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:45:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Message-ID: <000c01c48c5d$9dd67020$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> 3rd Attempt to post this...my posts to this list are not coming through.... Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 From adtp at touchtelindia.net Fri Aug 27 13:04:49 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:34:49 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record References: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F02D08857@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <00e801c48c60$85a04a00$d81865cb@winxp> If there are gaps in the sequential values pertaining to the primary key field, the following could be considered (T_Data is the name of table and ID is the name of primary key). SELECT T_Data.* FROM T_Data WHERE (Select Count(*) From T_Data T1 Where T1.ID <= T_Data.ID) Mod 100 = 0; A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Heenan, Lambert To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' ; 'John W. Colby' Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 21:58 Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record If this table has a sequentially numbered Identity field (if that's the correct name for the SQL version of an AutoNumber) then just run a select query with the condition (Mod 100 = 0) on the Identity field. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record > > Gustav, > > I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We > need > to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. > Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't > work > at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull > every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would > give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't > be lightning fast but at least doable. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record > > > Hi John > > > > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > > things up I am guessing. > > To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? > > If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. > > /gustav From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Aug 27 13:21:00 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:21:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE9D@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Thanks Gustav Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Hi Jim If you meant that the parameter value could be either "sales" or "misc", you are right. You need two parameters to do that - and it wouldn't look nice. Your solution is what I would choose. /gustav > Thanks, but no joy. I think what I am attempting to do is not possible. The > workaround is to reopen the recordset for each change in the parameter. > Thanks anyway > Jim Hale > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 5:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query > On 26 Aug 2004 at 14:06, Hale, Jim wrote: >> qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" >> qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(5)) = strPlGroup >> >> Set recset(7) = qdfTemp(7).OpenRecordset() >> >> This works fine. However, I need to change parameter(4) into something like >> the following >> qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales or misc" > Try "'sales' or 'query'" > ie put the individual items in single quotes.-- > Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Aug 27 14:22:00 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:22:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040827112819.00b2c010@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <412F89D8.3010006@shaw.ca> Well it looks like different Office XP service packs on the machines, XP SP-3 on your development machine. Are you doing a full new runtime install on the server, or just passing over the adp file to the server with changes.? This could lead to problems. David Emerson wrote: > Group, > > I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 > Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or > DoCmd.TransferText commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in > MSAccess.exe). > > Examples are - > > DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, > strTableName, strFullName > DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", > strFullName, False > DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, > "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True > DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, > "dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile > DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", > strFullName > DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", > DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True > DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", > DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True > DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, > False > > The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with > Office 97 and Office XP). > > I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. > > Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of > the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on my > machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program > Files\Microsoft Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version > 10.0.2627.1. > > Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park > Wellington, New Zealand > Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 > Mobile 027-280-9348 -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From kwilliam at ashlandnet.com Fri Aug 27 14:29:55 2004 From: kwilliam at ashlandnet.com (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:29:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? In-Reply-To: <000c01c48c5d$9dd67020$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Message-ID: <001201c48c6c$3be7a550$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Thump!! Thump!! Thump!! Thump!! (Banging head on desk)......arrrrrfffggghghghghg!!! Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? 3rd Attempt to post this...my posts to this list are not coming through.... Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Aug 27 14:58:43 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:58:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040827112819.00b2c010@mail.dalyn.co.nz> <412F89D8.3010006@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <412F9273.7090407@shaw.ca> Oh and one other thing to check that you have installed Overview of Office XP Service Pack 3 for Access 2002 Runtime. Note this is in addition to normal SP3 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;834693&Product=acc MartyConnelly wrote: > Well it looks like different Office XP service packs on the machines, > XP SP-3 on your development machine. > Are you doing a full new runtime install on the server, or just > passing over the adp file to the server with changes.? > This could lead to problems. > > David Emerson wrote: > >> Group, >> >> I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 >> Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or >> DoCmd.TransferText commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in >> MSAccess.exe). >> >> Examples are - >> >> DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, >> strTableName, strFullName >> DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", >> strFullName, False >> DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >> "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True >> DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >> "dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile >> DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", >> strFullName >> DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", >> DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True >> DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", >> DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True >> DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", >> strFullName, False >> >> The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with >> Office 97 and Office XP). >> >> I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. >> >> Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of >> the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on >> my machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program >> Files\Microsoft Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version >> 10.0.2627.1. >> >> Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? >> >> >> Regards >> >> David Emerson >> Dalyn Software Ltd >> 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >> Wellington, New Zealand >> Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 >> Mobile 027-280-9348 > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Fri Aug 27 15:07:34 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:07:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? References: <001201c48c6c$3be7a550$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Message-ID: <015e01c48c71$7e9825f0$6401a8c0@default> > Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax > table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? > > I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are > from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty > table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current > user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source > for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I > can't understand why. Any ideas??? > > Dim db As Database > Dim stDocName As String > Dim mytable2 As Recordset > Dim sqlstring As String > Dim recSource As String > Set db = CurrentDb > DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" > Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) Keith, No idea why, but two things you can try: 1) After DoCmd.CopyObject, try db.TableDefs.Refresh 2) Make sqlString = "Select * From tempfax_" & CurrentUser & chr(34) and use db.OpenRecordset(sqlString) ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 27 15:12:21 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:12:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB30F@main2.marlow.com> Try replacing this line: Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser, dbOpenTable) See if that makes a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 2:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Thump!! Thump!! Thump!! Thump!! (Banging head on desk)......arrrrrfffggghghghghg!!! Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? 3rd Attempt to post this...my posts to this list are not coming through.... Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kwilliam at ashlandnet.com Fri Aug 27 15:30:16 2004 From: kwilliam at ashlandnet.com (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:30:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB30F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001301c48c74$a9da5690$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> This gives me an invalid option error. :( Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 4:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Try replacing this line: Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser, dbOpenTable) See if that makes a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 2:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Thump!! Thump!! Thump!! Thump!! (Banging head on desk)......arrrrrfffggghghghghg!!! Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? 3rd Attempt to post this...my posts to this list are not coming through.... Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kwilliam at ashlandnet.com Fri Aug 27 15:32:14 2004 From: kwilliam at ashlandnet.com (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:32:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? In-Reply-To: <015e01c48c71$7e9825f0$6401a8c0@default> Message-ID: <001401c48c74$f0b930e0$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Your first comment didn't make a difference. The 2nd one is code that runs after the problem...so I haven't tried that yet. In fact, I've got those lines as comments, at the moment.... Thump, thump, thump, crunch {ouch....that was my nose}. Lol :) Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 4:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? > Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the > tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? > > I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset > "mytable2" are > from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an > empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & > current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for > the data source > for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both > tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? > > Dim db As Database > Dim stDocName As String > Dim mytable2 As Recordset > Dim sqlstring As String > Dim recSource As String > Set db = CurrentDb > DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set > mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) Keith, No idea why, but two things you can try: 1) After DoCmd.CopyObject, try db.TableDefs.Refresh 2) Make sqlString = "Select * From tempfax_" & CurrentUser & chr(34) and use db.OpenRecordset(sqlString) ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Fri Aug 27 16:37:11 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:37:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? In-Reply-To: <000101c48c4b$f98f9930$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Message-ID: <000501c48c7e$02ec6030$cb0ba845@hargrove.internal> Could it be because the first thing you do is copy whatever is in (tempfax_ & currentuser) to tblfax on the line... DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" You then add the new record but the next time this runs, the whole of (tempfax_ & currentuser) will get copied to tblfax. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Aug 27 17:38:13 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:38:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FEA0@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Yes, that gives me a type mismatch Jim -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Have you tried: qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" OR "misc" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Thanks, but no joy. I think what I am attempting to do is not possible. The workaround is to reopen the recordset for each change in the parameter. Thanks anyway Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query On 26 Aug 2004 at 14:06, Hale, Jim wrote: > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(5)) = strPlGroup > > Set recset(7) = qdfTemp(7).OpenRecordset() > > This works fine. However, I need to change parameter(4) into something like > the following > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales or misc" Try "'sales' or 'query'" ie put the individual items in single quotes.-- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Aug 27 19:45:33 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:45:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <000c01c48c4b$f0ad94c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: Hi John: Given the tables auto-number field is named ID, you could try a simplier: select * from MyGreatBigTable where (cast(id as int) % 100) = 0 HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Gustav, I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > things up I am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Aug 27 19:24:28 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:24:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <000c01c48c4b$f0ad94c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: Hi John: This piece of code is untested but if you have an id field in your database the following SQL script will pull every 100th record: SELECT * FROM MyVeryBigTable WHERE (CAST(ID AS numeric) / 100 = CAST(ID AS int) / 100) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Gustav, I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > things up I am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davide at dalyn.co.nz Fri Aug 27 22:07:19 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:07:19 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash In-Reply-To: <412F9273.7090407@shaw.ca> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040827112819.00b2c010@mail.dalyn.co.nz> <412F89D8.3010006@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040828150357.00b87b60@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks Marty, Will test that out on Monday. David At 27/08/2004, you wrote: >Oh and one other thing to check that you have installed >Overview of Office XP Service Pack 3 for Access 2002 Runtime. Note this is >in addition to normal SP3 >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;834693&Product=acc > >MartyConnelly wrote: > >>Well it looks like different Office XP service packs on the machines, XP >>SP-3 on your development machine. >>Are you doing a full new runtime install on the server, or just passing >>over the adp file to the server with changes.? >>This could lead to problems. >> >>David Emerson wrote: >> >>>Group, >>> >>>I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 >>>Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or DoCmd.TransferText >>>commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in MSAccess.exe). >>> >>>Examples are - >>> >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, >>>strTableName, strFullName >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, >>>False >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >>>"dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >>>"dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", >>>strFullName >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True >>>DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, False >>> >>>The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with >>>Office 97 and Office XP). >>> >>>I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. >>> >>>Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of >>>the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on my >>>machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program Files\Microsoft >>>Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version 10.0.2627.1. >>> >>>Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? >>> >>> >>>Regards >>> >>>David Emerson >>>Dalyn Software Ltd >>>25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >>>Wellington, New Zealand >>>Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 >>>Mobile 027-280-9348 >> >> > >-- >Marty Connelly >Victoria, B.C. >Canada > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sat Aug 28 00:18:33 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:48:33 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? References: <000101c48c4b$f98f9930$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Message-ID: <00ec01c48cbe$adc350f0$f21865cb@winxp> Keith, On a trial conducted at this end (Access XP on Win XP), your code is found to work OK. Only the temporary table (tempfax_Admin) is getting populated, not the original blank table (tblfax). If still stuck up, you might like to send a zipped extract of the pruned down file, containing the problem forms, table & code, for further examination. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Williamson To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 21:09 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 From Lambert.Heenan at aig.com Thu Aug 26 08:51:08 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at aig.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:51:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F02D08841@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Dan, I'm curious to know what "network problems" were laid at the door of Access just because the BE grew to 80 Mb (not a particularly huge file). Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:30 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Chris, > > The function called CountCurrentUsers will prevent the CompactBE procedure > from running until the last user is exiting. > > I like your VB utility approach. My system also has a 'shutdown' time > period during the night so that backup processes work well. This would be > a > good time for a scheduled compact. > > There's nothing retentive about it! I've had a 20 Mb BE grow to 80 Mb - > this caused the IT dept. to start an investigation as to why they were > having network problems. They weren't aware that they needed to compact > the > BE regularly. So, a method to automatically compact the BE avoids the > whole > issue. > > Chris - would it be possible for you to post the VB utility code, or to > make > it available to the folks on this list? > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher > Hawkins > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the > back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? > > Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a > database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients > usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. > > -C- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: dwaters at usinternet.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 > > >Hello to All! > > > >I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE > >would > >also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the > >BE to > >auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application > >and then > >closed. > > > >With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this > >code to > >compact the BE > >when the FE is closed by the last person. > > > >Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close > >option to > >true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be > >asked to > >enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their > >FE. > > > >You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit > >button is > >the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) > >When you > >push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before > >using the > >DoCmd.Quit method. > > > >I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will > >work for > >everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! > > > >Thanks! > >Dan Waters > >ProMation Systems, Inc. > > > >PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. > > > > > > > >'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' > > > >Option Compare Database > >Option Explicit > > > >Public Sub CompactBE() > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > Dim stgPath As String > > Dim blnExclusive As Boolean > > Dim appAccess As Access.Application > > Dim varReturn As Variant > > > > If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then > > Exit Sub > > End If > > > > stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" > > '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting > > blnExclusive = True > > > > Set appAccess = New Access.Application > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") > > > > appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive > > '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens > >quickly! > > appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase > > appAccess.Quit > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) > > > > Exit Sub > > > >EH: > > Application.Echo True > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", > >"CompactBE") > > > >End Sub > > > >Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > Dim con As New ADODB.Connection > > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > > Dim stgAccessVersion As String > > Dim intUserCount As Integer > > Dim stgUserName As String > > > > stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) > > > > '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema > >rowset _ > > in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ > > reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ > > listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets > > > > Select Case stgAccessVersion > > Case "9.0" > > '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access > >2000 > > con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data > >Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" > > Case "10.0" > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > >2002 or > >2003 > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > Case "11.0" > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > >2002 or > >2003 > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > End Select > > > > Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , > >"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") > > > > If rst.EOF = False Then > > Do While rst.EOF = False > > stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, > >rst.Fields(1), > >Chr(0)) - 1) > > If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then > > intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 > > End If > > rst.MoveNext > > Loop > > CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount > > Else > > CountCurrentUsers = 0 > > End If > > > > rst.Close > > Set rst = Nothing > > > > Exit Function > > > >EH: > > Application.Echo True > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current > >Users", "CountCurrentUsers") > > > >End Function > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > Respectfully, > > Christopher Hawkins > Managing Developer > http://www.christopherhawkins.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Aug 28 05:16:54 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:16:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Info Interesting use of InfoPath In-Reply-To: <1499304128.20040307140906@cactus.dk> References: <3F7AF33E.14003.19E6DAF@localhost> <3F7A7578.9000007@shaw.ca> <1499304128.20040307140906@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <11412426127.20040828121654@cactus.dk> Hi all Just noticed this MS ressource: The InfoPath 2003 Software Development Kit (SDK) download contains sample forms, tools, and documentation to assist with Microsoft Office InfoPath 2003 and InfoPath 2003 Service Pack 1 form development and deployment. http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=351F0616-93AA-4FE8-9238-D702F1BFBAB4&displaylang=en The Microsoft Office InfoPath 2003 Software Development Kit (SDK) is designed for solution providers (SPs), value-added resellers (VARs), and other developers who are interested in developing solutions with InfoPath 2003 and InfoPath 2003 Service Pack 1. The InfoPath SDK includes documentation and samples that demonstrate development techniques for customizing and implementing InfoPath features, including integration with Microsoft Office Access 2003, Microsoft Office Word 2003, Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services, Microsoft BizTalk Server, Microsoft SQL Server, XML Web Services, Component Object Model (COM) components, and ActiveX Data Objects (ADO). /gustav > Hi Marty et all > Also noted this from Mike Gunderloy, classifying it more as an end > user tool: > "InfoPath is a tool that lets end users create XML files matching a > particular schema without ever seeing an angle bracket." > http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=8979 > /gustav >> If you were wondering about uses for InfoPath. >> Rather than use Access to link to a webservice. This method with >> InfoPath allows a user to quickly link to a webservice via XML with no >> coding. The webservice could be a ASP.Net hook to an old Cobol legacy >> app to edit or add data.. >> Dynamically Data-bind in InfoPath By Thiru Thangarathinam >> http://www.developer.com/net/article.php/3082431 From artful at rogers.com Sat Aug 28 05:28:19 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 06:28:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms Message-ID: <003501c48ce9$bdca8010$6501a8c0@rock> 1. I built a datasheet form from a crosstab... And no simple crosstab either, it's actually 28 crosstabs UNIONed. No problem insofar as I'm dealing with the current data. The problem will emerge when the users add new rows to the data source, which will result in additional columns that won't be dealt with in the datasheet form. So the question is, can I programmatically generate a datasheet form based on the underlying query, and if so how so? Just to be clear, the queries will generate columns from 1/1/2003 to as far as the users care to go. I need to determine the number of columns in the current form, and if that differs from the number of columns delivered by the underlying query, then programmatically add enough columns to handle it gracefully. 2. Given such a form with, say, 50 columns, all of which represent successive month-end-dates (i.e. 2/29/2004), how can I open the form and move the cursor to the month corresponding to Now()? If I can just get this to work the way I see it on the back of my eyelids, the users are going to have spiritual orgasms :) TIA, Arthur From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 28 06:56:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 07:56:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VLDBs, the saga - Ramblings only In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c48cf6$06589a90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> I have been working on getting a rather large database into SQL Server. This thing is ~65 million names plus demographics info and will be used for bulk mailing analysis. I have been struggling for weeks to make this happen. Having no experience with a database this big, I had no idea how big the final db would be. I tried to get it in to a 160g drive but it rapidly became obvious that wouldn't hold it. I then purchased two 200g drives and used Raid0 to make a big 400 g drive. I thought I turned on compression but after getting well into the extraction process I discovered this wasn't the case. I then started trying to figure out how to get the drive compressed. Long story short, a NTFS drive can be compressed, even a raid array such as this, however... There is a control that allows you to select the sector size. I had selected the "compress" check box but then selected a sector size of 64K. As I started investigating why the drive wasn't compressed it turns out that only sector sizes of 512 to 4K bytes allow compression. Anything larger causes the "compress drive" check box to gray out and the drive ends up uncompressed. By this time I had already spent several days extracting zipped files of data and BCPing them into SQL Server so I had a MDF file of over 300gb and no place to put it! Sigh. Out of desperation I decided to try zipping the database file. I started it PK zipping last night onto an empty 160g partition. This morning I had a 10gb zipped file that supposedly contains the MDF file! I then deleted the partition on the 400gb Raid array and started playing with the compression / block size which is when I discovered the >4K sector size gotcha. I set the sector size to 4K and quick formatted, then started unzipping the MDF file to the (compressed) 400gb raid array. We shall see. The unzip is not finished, in fact has several hours to go yet. If this works I will celebrate. This whole project has been a challenge. It looks like the database will be around 600g for JUST the data, never mind any indexes. I simply don't have the money to build a raid 5 array to up the uncompressed drive size. Even if I did, IDE drives larger than 250gb are expensive and AFAICT only available in 5200 RPM. Plus the overhead of Raid5 is "One Drive" which means I'd need (4) 300g drives to build a 900g usable space raid5 array. Raid1 (which I am currently using) tops out at 600g using (2) 300g drives (uncompressed). So far my (2) drive Raid1 array using 200g drives has cost me $240 plus a controller I already had. A Raid5 solution using 300g drives would cost about $1200 just for the new controller and 4 drives! With any luck, given the massive compression PKZip managed to attain, I will be able to shoehorn the 600g. Update 8-( As I write this I just got a "delayed write failed" message from Windows saying it lost data trying to write to the disk. I have tried to turn off write caching but can't seem to find the magic button to cause Windows to quit using "Delayed write". BIG sigh! If I can't get the db back out of the zip file I will be facing a weekend of "starting from scratch" on getting the data out of the raw text files and back in to SQL Server! And I thought this would be fairly easy. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Aug 28 07:47:38 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 14:47:38 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] VLDBs, the saga - Ramblings only In-Reply-To: <000001c48cf6$06589a90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> References: <000001c48cf6$06589a90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <1337932636.20040828144738@cactus.dk> Hi John Bad news: No database engine likes a compressed partition as storage and some do not run reliably at all on such, including SQL Server: http://www.windowsecurity.com/articles/Secure-Installation-Microsoft-SQL-Server-2000.html A reminder: the SQL data must not be compressed by the NTFS file system because this may cause a serious drop in efficiency or even faults when performing the queries. If you have chosen a compressed partition, you should halt the SQL service right after the installation and decompress the data-containing directory /gustav > .. I then started trying to figure out how to get the drive compressed. From dwaters at usinternet.com Sat Aug 28 08:42:43 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 08:42:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example In-Reply-To: <15993943.1093674146409.JavaMail.root@sniper4.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000001c48d04$e56f2ab0$de1811d8@danwaters> Lambert, The network was in the process of being slowly upgraded to modern switches (from 10 gbit to 100 gbit). The 80 Mb file was being sent as a single piece, not broken into separate pieces. As a result, some of the printers were dropping off-line. I was told that if the printers could not make contact with the network within 0.25 seconds, then the printer would drop off-line automatically. The 80 Mb file would take longer than that to get across the network. Actually - my memory has finally come back to me. It was actually a FE that had not been decompiled and recompiled that had grown to 80 Mb, and was later reduced to 20 Mb. 20 Mb did not cause the printers to drop off-line. This was the story I got, and I believe that the IT folks who told me this also believed it. Does this sound plausible? And you're right - this was something of an effort to lay the problems at the door of Access, when it was really the IT Access developer who had forgotten to decompile and recompile. Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Dan Waters' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Dan, I'm curious to know what "network problems" were laid at the door of Access just because the BE grew to 80 Mb (not a particularly huge file). Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:30 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Chris, > > The function called CountCurrentUsers will prevent the CompactBE procedure > from running until the last user is exiting. > > I like your VB utility approach. My system also has a 'shutdown' time > period during the night so that backup processes work well. This would be > a > good time for a scheduled compact. > > There's nothing retentive about it! I've had a 20 Mb BE grow to 80 Mb - > this caused the IT dept. to start an investigation as to why they were > having network problems. They weren't aware that they needed to compact > the > BE regularly. So, a method to automatically compact the BE avoids the > whole > issue. > > Chris - would it be possible for you to post the VB utility code, or to > make > it available to the folks on this list? > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher > Hawkins > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the > back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? > > Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a > database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients > usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. > > -C- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: dwaters at usinternet.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 > > >Hello to All! > > > >I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE > >would > >also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the > >BE to > >auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application > >and then > >closed. > > > >With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this > >code to > >compact the BE > >when the FE is closed by the last person. > > > >Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close > >option to > >true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be > >asked to > >enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their > >FE. > > > >You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit > >button is > >the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) > >When you > >push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before > >using the > >DoCmd.Quit method. > > > >I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will > >work for > >everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! > > > >Thanks! > >Dan Waters > >ProMation Systems, Inc. > > > >PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. > > > > > > > >'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' > > > >Option Compare Database > >Option Explicit > > > >Public Sub CompactBE() > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > Dim stgPath As String > > Dim blnExclusive As Boolean > > Dim appAccess As Access.Application > > Dim varReturn As Variant > > > > If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then > > Exit Sub > > End If > > > > stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" > > '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting > > blnExclusive = True > > > > Set appAccess = New Access.Application > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") > > > > appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive > > '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens > >quickly! > > appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase > > appAccess.Quit > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) > > > > Exit Sub > > > >EH: > > Application.Echo True > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", > >"CompactBE") > > > >End Sub > > > >Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > Dim con As New ADODB.Connection > > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > > Dim stgAccessVersion As String > > Dim intUserCount As Integer > > Dim stgUserName As String > > > > stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) > > > > '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema > >rowset _ > > in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ > > reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ > > listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets > > > > Select Case stgAccessVersion > > Case "9.0" > > '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access > >2000 > > con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data > >Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" > > Case "10.0" > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > >2002 or > >2003 > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > Case "11.0" > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > >2002 or > >2003 > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > End Select > > > > Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , > >"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") > > > > If rst.EOF = False Then > > Do While rst.EOF = False > > stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, > >rst.Fields(1), > >Chr(0)) - 1) > > If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then > > intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 > > End If > > rst.MoveNext > > Loop > > CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount > > Else > > CountCurrentUsers = 0 > > End If > > > > rst.Close > > Set rst = Nothing > > > > Exit Function > > > >EH: > > Application.Echo True > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current > >Users", "CountCurrentUsers") > > > >End Function > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > Respectfully, > > Christopher Hawkins > Managing Developer > http://www.christopherhawkins.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Sat Aug 28 15:56:30 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:56:30 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Tablet pc and Access 2003 Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0ADB2B@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Does tablet pc run regular office applications and more important Access? Erwin Craps Zaakvoerder www.ithelps.be/jonathan This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to the sender. IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be * www.stadleuven.be IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: Info at ithelps.be Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: Staff at boxoffice.be From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Aug 28 17:17:38 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 08:17:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] VLDBs, the saga - Ramblings only In-Reply-To: <000001c48cf6$06589a90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> References: Message-ID: <41319122.24461.13B4CC@lexacorp.com.pg> On 28 Aug 2004 at 7:56, John W. Colby wrote: > > With any luck, given the massive compression PKZip managed to attain, I will > be able to shoehorn the 600g. > John, do not use compressed drives for SQL Server data. You are asking for trouble. See http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;231347 I did warn you before you got started about how much storage and processing power you were going to need. You just can't handle that amount of data without serious expenditure on the hardware. -- Stuart From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 28 19:19:02 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 20:19:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VLDBs, the saga - Ramblings only In-Reply-To: <41319122.24461.13B4CC@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000201c48d5d$ccdcbdb0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Thanks for the reference. That's the first I have seen that actually explains why. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 6:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] VLDBs, the saga - Ramblings only On 28 Aug 2004 at 7:56, John W. Colby wrote: > > With any luck, given the massive compression PKZip managed to attain, > I will be able to shoehorn the 600g. > John, do not use compressed drives for SQL Server data. You are asking for trouble. See http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;231347 I did warn you before you got started about how much storage and processing power you were going to need. You just can't handle that amount of data without serious expenditure on the hardware. -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From k.williamson5 at verizon.net Sat Aug 28 20:22:06 2004 From: k.williamson5 at verizon.net (Keith Williamson) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:22:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? In-Reply-To: <000501c48c7e$02ec6030$cb0ba845@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: <20040829012208.FIGD24594.out001.verizon.net@KeithComputer> No. "tblfax" is an empty table that gets copied to the "tempfax_" & CurrentUser table. Once that is copied, all the unbound fields on the form are copied to the "tempfax_" & CurrentUser table. But for some reason the data from the unbound fields is showing up in both tables. Both tables were empty before the update command, but both have the data afterwards. I can't figure it out. :( Regards, Keith Williamson -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Could it be because the first thing you do is copy whatever is in (tempfax_ & currentuser) to tblfax on the line... DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" You then add the new record but the next time this runs, the whole of (tempfax_ & currentuser) will get copied to tblfax. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at afsweb.com Sun Aug 29 18:17:39 2004 From: ebarro at afsweb.com (Eric Barro) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:17:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Obtaining 2 lowest values in a row In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Group, I have a table of records where I need to grab the 2 lowest values in a row. For example: 1 100 50 25 98 75 66 2 98 100 45 63 51 21 so the result for row 1 would be 25 and 50 and the result for row 2 would be 21 and 45 I want to create a query that produces this result 1 75 (sum of 25 and 50) 2 66 (sum of 21 and 45) Can anyone help? --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 29 18:40:39 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 19:40:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Obtaining 2 lowest values in a row In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040829234040.UYCZ1794.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Do the values 100, 50, 25, and so on represent the same type of value? If so, you should normalize the table, then it would be easy: 1 100 1 50 1 25 1 98 1 75 1 66 2 96 2 100 And so on... In a case like this, I'd suggest exporting the table to Excel and using the transpose feature to reorganize it -- then import it back into Access -- should be fairly straight forward. The totaling part is easy with aggregates once the data is normalized. If the values represent different types of data, you could still do the same, but just use the imported table for totaling as you need it. But, since you're adding the values, I suspect they do represent the same type of value. Susan H. Group, I have a table of records where I need to grab the 2 lowest values in a row. For example: 1 100 50 25 98 75 66 2 98 100 45 63 51 21 so the result for row 1 would be 25 and 50 and the result for row 2 would be 21 and 45 I want to create a query that produces this result 1 75 (sum of 25 and 50) 2 66 (sum of 21 and 45) Can anyone help? --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 29 19:27:42 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 20:27:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Online storage Message-ID: <20040830002742.JQYX1791.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> We're moving in a few days and I don't have the facilities to back up both of the systems I work on -- I usually just back up from one to the other. Can anyone suggest an online service where I could upload both systems, just in case something happens during the move? Since this is so off topic, I guess you should reply off list. Also, I'll be unsubbing for a few days -- anyone needing me can reach me off list at ssharkins at bellsouth.net -- but it might take a few days for me to get back to you. Thanks everyone. Susan H. From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun Aug 29 19:28:15 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:28:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed References: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412C3AA4.408@shaw.ca> <035b01c48afd$63dcf300$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412E3513.7090306@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <024901c48e28$3dde2060$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Marty: Thanks for those. It's really for Spanish, and maybe in the future sometime, French. Hopefully I'll never have to learn how to input Chinese. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > If you are going to get deeper into this. > Here are two rough code snippets to switch languages on the fly for data > entry in Access. > One uses API calls, the other keyboard events. > > The Canadian Government sometimes specifies bilingual French-English > form data entry. > I dunno how to handle DBCS languages like Chinese Big 5. As they say, > that is left for an exercise for the student. > You probably fiddle around with the IME. > > > Public Declare Function LoadKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" Alias _ > "LoadKeyboardLayoutA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String, ByVal Flags As Long) As > Long > > Private Declare Function ActivateKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" (ByVal HKL > As Long, _ > ByVal Flags As Long) As Long > > Private Declare Function GetKeyboardLayoutName Lib "user32" Alias _ > "GetKeyboardLayoutNameA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String) As Long > > Const KL_NAMELENGTH = 9 > > Sub testarabic() > Dim lRet As Long > 'your language selection bar will have languages added if available on > the machine. > ' warning if bar isn't visible on screen taskbar or floating version, > you may have to go to control panel to reset > ' to proper language desired. > lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For English > Debug.Print lRet > lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) > Debug.Print lRet > lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000401", 1) ' For Arabic > Debug.Print lRet > lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000401", 0) > Debug.Print lRet > lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00011009", 1) ' For FrenchCanadian > Debug.Print lRet > lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00011009", 0) > Debug.Print lRet > End Sub > > Sub resetenglish() > Dim lRet As Long > lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For US English > Debug.Print lRet > lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) > Debug.Print lRet > End Sub > > Sub whatiskeybd() > Dim strName As String > 'Create a buffer > strName = String(KL_NAMELENGTH, 0) > 'Get the keyboard layout name > GetKeyboardLayoutName strName > Debug.Print "Keyboard layout name: " & strName > End Sub > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Alternate method for bilingual entry on textboxes > assumes you have only two languages on language bar > or you are using only one hot key switch > > 'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/Unicode-KbdsonWindows.pdf > 'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/nlsweb/default.asp?submitted=40d > > 'Part of the file Win32api.txt: > ' > ' VK_L VK_R - left and right Alt, Ctrl and Shift virtual keys. > ' Used only as parameters to GetAsyncKeyState() and GetKeyState(). > ' No other API or message will distinguish left and right keys in this > 'way. > ' / > Public Const VK_LSHIFT = &HA0 > Public Const VK_RSHIFT = &HA1 > Public Const VK_LCONTROL = &HA2 > Public Const VK_RCONTROL = &HA3 > Public Const VK_LMENU = &HA4 > Public Const VK_RMENU = &HA5 > > 'What a weird name for the Alt-key. but it does use the menu > > Private Const VK_LWIN = &H5B 'Left window button > Private Const VK_RETURN = &HD 'ENTER key > Private Const VK_SHIFT = &H10 'SHIFT key > Private Const VK_CONTROL = &H11 'CTRL key > Private Const VK_MENU = &H12 'ALT key > Private Const VK_PAUSE = &H13 'PAUSE key > Private Const VK_CAPITAL = &H14 'CAPS LOCK key > Private Const VK_SNAPSHOT = &H2C 'Print Screen > Private Const VK_APPS = &H5D > 'Applications key on a Microsoft Natural Keyboard > 'from http://support.microsoft.com/view/dev.asp?kb=242971 > > Const GW_HWNDFIRST = 0 > Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 > Private Const KEYEVENTF_KEYUP = &H2 > > Private Declare Sub keybd_event Lib "user32" (ByVal bVk As Byte, _ > ByVal bScan As Byte, ByVal dwFlags As Long, ByVal dwExtraInfo As Long) > > Sub ShiftToLanguage() > 'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox > 'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: > > ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key > 'order of pressing important > keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 > keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, 0, 0 > > > keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > 'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock > 'has been left on > keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > Debug.Print "Shift" > DoEvents > > End Sub > > Sub ShiftToLanguageBack() > 'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox > 'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: > > ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key > 'order of pressing important > keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 > keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, 0, 0 > > > keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > 'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock > 'has been left on > keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > Debug.Print "Shift Back" > DoEvents > > End Sub > > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > > >Marty: > > > >Don't know exactly how I did it, but I got the alternate keyboard. AND I > >can key the accent marks directly in an Access table now. > > > >Thanks to all > > > >Best, > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "MartyConnelly" > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:07 AM > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > > > > > > > > > >>Another Method > >> > >>Win XP Control Panel --> Regional Language Settings--> Languages > >>--Details --> Installed services > >> Add the Spanish Keyboard in addition to English. > >> > >>Other button option selections > >> > >>Language -choose to float Keyboard Language Bar on Screen as transparent > >>or in tasktray > >>I prefer floating bar rather cluttering TaskTray icon > >> > >>Key Settings choose a hotkey to switch language keyboard. > >> > >>This will give you a floating keyboard selection bar > >> > >>Defualt To change language keyboards when typing toggle ALT - Right Shift > >> > >> You can also do this by VBA code. I have used to sense Keyboard > >>language state and switch between French or English Text boxes on same > >> > >> > >form > > > > > >>There are probably pictures of spanish keyboard mappings at > >>http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev > >> > >>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Stuart: > >>> > >>> > >>>Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when > >>>keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the > >>> > >>> > >mdb > > > > > >>>where I have to key all this Spanish. > >>> > >>>Rocky > >>> > >>> > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: "Stuart McLachlan" > >>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>> > >>>Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:42 PM > >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a > >>>>>terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the > >>>>>vowels. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut and > >>>>paste. > >>>> > >>>>>From the Word Help: > >>>>To insert Press > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter > >>>> > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter > >>>> > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter > >>>> > >>>>?, ?, ? > >>>>?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>> > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, Y CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter > >>>> > >>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A > >>>> > >>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A > >>>> > >>>>o, O CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O > >>>> > >>>>?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C > >>>> > >>>>?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D > >>>> > >>>>?, ? CTRL+/, o or O > >>>> > >>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? > >>>> > >>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! > >>>>-- > >>>>Stuart > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>AccessD mailing list > >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>Marty Connelly > >>Victoria, B.C. > >>Canada > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>AccessD mailing list > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sun Aug 29 22:20:07 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 08:50:07 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms References: <003501c48ce9$bdca8010$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <001b01c48e40$6fca0c20$ae1865cb@winxp> Arthur, Two alternatives could be considered - (a) No limit to the maximum number of columns to be displayed in the form. Additional columns keep getting added dynamically at run time as required. (b) Refine the cross-tab query so as to have fixed number of 12 column headings ("Jan" to "Dec" in column headings property). In such a case, the year field should be set as the dominant row heading (if any additional field is to be set as supplementary row heading, it is preferably put to the right of year field - in query design grid). From your post, you appear to be aiming at an arrangement similar to (a) above. In such a case, the following implications need to be considered - (i) The form would tend to get progressively unwieldy, with ever increasing number of columns, requiring excessive horizontal scrolling. (ii) Creation of new controls at run time requires transitory switching to design view. (iii) Such a db would not be amenable to conversion as mde file. On the other hand, alternative (b) above is free from the handicaps just mentioned, at the same time affording the convenience of two pronged scanning of data as follows - (i) Horizontally in a row - for data across various months in a given year and (ii) Vertically in a column - for data across various years in a given month. Coming to second part of your posting, automatic setting of focus to the first matching cell in datasheet, corresponding to the current date (whenever the form is opened) can be effected by putting the code given below, in form's load event. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- =================================== Private Sub Form_Load() Dim Mn As String SYear.SetFocus DoCmd.FindRecord Year(Date) Mn = Format(Date, "mmm") Me(Mn).SetFocus End Sub Note - This code is based upon the name of year field being SYear and names of column headings being "Jan" to "Dec" =================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Fuller To: AccessD Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 15:58 Subject: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms 1. I built a datasheet form from a crosstab... And no simple crosstab either, it's actually 28 crosstabs UNIONed. No problem insofar as I'm dealing with the current data. The problem will emerge when the users add new rows to the data source, which will result in additional columns that won't be dealt with in the datasheet form. So the question is, can I programmatically generate a datasheet form based on the underlying query, and if so how so? Just to be clear, the queries will generate columns from 1/1/2003 to as far as the users care to go. I need to determine the number of columns in the current form, and if that differs from the number of columns delivered by the underlying query, then programmatically add enough columns to handle it gracefully. 2. Given such a form with, say, 50 columns, all of which represent successive month-end-dates (i.e. 2/29/2004), how can I open the form and move the cursor to the month corresponding to Now()? If I can just get this to work the way I see it on the back of my eyelids, the users are going to have spiritual orgasms :) TIA, Arthur From davide at dalyn.co.nz Mon Aug 30 00:25:35 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:25:35 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash In-Reply-To: <412F9273.7090407@shaw.ca> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040827112819.00b2c010@mail.dalyn.co.nz> <412F89D8.3010006@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040830172259.00b3e750@mail.dalyn.co.nz> That solved most of the problem. Now the commands work on the server. However, it is used as a terminal server. Although it runs fine when using the program direct on the computer, if anyone connects to a terminal server session they still get the same crashing. Any pointers on this one!! David At 27/08/2004, you wrote: >Oh and one other thing to check that you have installed >Overview of Office XP Service Pack 3 for Access 2002 Runtime. Note this is >in addition to normal SP3 >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;834693&Product=acc > >MartyConnelly wrote: > >>Well it looks like different Office XP service packs on the machines, XP >>SP-3 on your development machine. >>Are you doing a full new runtime install on the server, or just passing >>over the adp file to the server with changes.? >>This could lead to problems. >> >>David Emerson wrote: >> >>>Group, >>> >>>I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 >>>Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or DoCmd.TransferText >>>commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in MSAccess.exe). >>> >>>Examples are - >>> >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, >>>strTableName, strFullName >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, >>>False >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >>>"dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >>>"dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", >>>strFullName >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True >>>DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, False >>> >>>The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with >>>Office 97 and Office XP). >>> >>>I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. >>> >>>Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of >>>the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on my >>>machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program Files\Microsoft >>>Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version 10.0.2627.1. >>> >>>Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? >>> >>> >>>Regards >>> >>>David Emerson >>>Dalyn Software Ltd >>>25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >>>Wellington, New Zealand >>>Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 >>>Mobile 027-280-9348 From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 30 04:53:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:53:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Obtaining 2 lowest values in a row In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1513078876.20040830115312@cactus.dk> Hi Eric > I have a table of records where I need to grab the 2 lowest values in a row. > For example: > 1 100 50 25 98 75 66 > 2 98 100 45 63 51 21 > so the result for row 1 would be 25 and 50 and the result for row 2 would be 21 and 45 > I want to create a query that produces this result > 1 75 (sum of 25 and 50) > 2 66 (sum of 21 and 45) I think the easiest method would be to read the records into an array with GetRows() and sort on this, but it can be done in SQL: First, assemble the six fields into one using two union queries: SELECT ID, V1 AS V, 1 AS N FROM tblMin6 WHERE ID=1 UNION ALL SELECT ID, V2 AS V, 2 AS N FROM tblMin6 WHERE ID=1 UNION ALL SELECT ID, V3 AS V, 3 AS N FROM tblMin6 WHERE ID=1 UNION ALL SELECT ID, V4 AS V, 4 AS N FROM tblMin6 WHERE ID=1 UNION ALL SELECT ID, V5 AS V, 5 AS N FROM tblMin6 WHERE ID=1 UNION ALL SELECT ID, V6 AS V, 6 AS N FROM tblMin6 WHERE ID=1; The other is identical but, of course, reads: WHERE ID=2 Save these as qdyMin6All1 and qdyMin6All2. The purpose of N is to distinguish two or more identical next-to-minimum values in the next queries where TOP 2 is used. Second, pick the two minimum values from these: SELECT TOP 2 * FROM qdyMin6All1 ORDER BY V, N; SELECT TOP 2 * FROM qdyMin6All2 ORDER BY V, N; Save these as qdyMin6Min21 and qdyMin6Min22. Now, create a union query to combine and sum the values: SELECT ID, Sum(V) AS SumMinV FROM qdyMin6Min21 GROUP BY ID UNION ALL SELECT ID, Sum(V) AS SumMinV FROM qdyMin6Min22 GROUP BY ID; Save this as qdyMin6. This will return two rows with the ID and the sums of your mins. Have fun! /gustav From marcus at tsstech.com Mon Aug 30 08:34:44 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:34:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access97 and ODBC Problem Message-ID: Why would the following function work the first time it is called but hang on subsequent calls? It locks up on the OpenRecordset statement. I've tried variations on the OpenRecordset statement [such as Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset()]. This is connecting to an Oracle database. Watch for line wrap. Public Function GetEmployee(strEmployeeNo As String, ByRef strName As String) As Boolean On Error GoTo HandleError Dim qdf As QueryDef Dim rst As Recordset GetEmployee = False Set qdf = CurrentDb.CreateQueryDef("") qdf.Connect = "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;" qdf.SQL = "SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';" Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset(dbOpenForwardOnly, dbSQLPassThrough) If rst.EOF <> True Then GetEmployee = True strName = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing qdf.Close Set qdf = Nothing Exit Function HandleError: Call Log(Err.Number & ": " & Err.Description, "modEmployeeManagement:GetEmployee") End Function Thanks in advance, Scott Marcus TSS Technologies From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 30 09:02:52 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:02:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access97 and ODBC Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12128059066.20040830160252@cactus.dk> Hi Scott Did you try separating the database and querydef objects and/or using a permanent query? Dim dbs As Database Dim qdf As QueryDef Dim rst As Recordset GetEmployee = False Set dbs = CurrentDb Set qdf = dbs.QueryDef("qdyTemp") qdf.Connect = "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;" qdf.SQL = "SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';" Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset(dbOpenForwardOnly, dbSQLPassThrough) If rst.EOF <> True Then GetEmployee = True strName = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing qdf.Close Set qdf = Nothing Set dbs = Nothing /gustav > Why would the following function work the first time it is called > but hang on subsequent calls? It locks up on the OpenRecordset > statement. I've tried variations on the OpenRecordset statement > [such as Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset()]. This is connecting to an > Oracle database. Watch for line wrap. > Public Function GetEmployee(strEmployeeNo As String, ByRef strName As String) As Boolean > On Error GoTo HandleError > Dim qdf As QueryDef > Dim rst As Recordset > GetEmployee = False > Set qdf = CurrentDb.CreateQueryDef("") > qdf.Connect = "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;" > qdf.SQL = "SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';" > Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset(dbOpenForwardOnly, dbSQLPassThrough) > If rst.EOF <> True Then > GetEmployee = True > strName = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) > End If > rst.Close > Set rst = Nothing > qdf.Close > Set qdf = Nothing > Exit Function > HandleError: > Call Log(Err.Number & ": " & Err.Description, "modEmployeeManagement:GetEmployee") > End Function > Thanks in advance, > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Aug 30 09:31:37 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:31:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FW: photo editing Message-ID: <001401c48e9e$128ffde0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> My sister in law is looking for photo editing stuff. If anyone knows of any that fits the description in the message below my sig could you reply directly to me off line or directly to Janice. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: JMcK110 at aol.com [mailto:JMcK110 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 9:00 AM To: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: photo editing John: For your type of computer, are you familiar with any non-professional software(not Photoshop) that lets you save photos as tiffs and measure photos in inches rather than pixels? Client is using Microsfot Photo Editor and having lots of trouble with it? Don't do any research on this question. I know you're busy. I'm just looking for off the top of your head answer. Janice From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 30 09:51:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:51:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Online storage Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB312@main2.marlow.com> If you are just talking about data...what kind of space requirement are you talking? I have about 10 gigs free on my servers data drive, if you want to just store data. Of course, unless you have screaming upload speed a gig or two is going to take a day or two. (At 1.5 meg up, to my house, it took about 45 minutes to transfer a 380 meg file). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 7:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT: Online storage We're moving in a few days and I don't have the facilities to back up both of the systems I work on -- I usually just back up from one to the other. Can anyone suggest an online service where I could upload both systems, just in case something happens during the move? Since this is so off topic, I guess you should reply off list. Also, I'll be unsubbing for a few days -- anyone needing me can reach me off list at ssharkins at bellsouth.net -- but it might take a few days for me to get back to you. Thanks everyone. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon Aug 30 09:43:46 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:43:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access97 and ODBC Problem Message-ID: Gustav, This is strange. When I run the code you gave me, I get the following error "3001:Invalid argument". Yet when I open the query from the IDE, it runs just fine. I guess I should try some other types instead of dbOpenForwardOnly. Scott -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access97 and ODBC Problem Hi Scott Did you try separating the database and querydef objects and/or using a permanent query? Dim dbs As Database Dim qdf As QueryDef Dim rst As Recordset GetEmployee = False Set dbs = CurrentDb Set qdf = dbs.QueryDef("qdyTemp") qdf.Connect = "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;" qdf.SQL = "SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';" Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset(dbOpenForwardOnly, dbSQLPassThrough) If rst.EOF <> True Then GetEmployee = True strName = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing qdf.Close Set qdf = Nothing Set dbs = Nothing /gustav > Why would the following function work the first time it is called > but hang on subsequent calls? It locks up on the OpenRecordset > statement. I've tried variations on the OpenRecordset statement > [such as Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset()]. This is connecting to an > Oracle database. Watch for line wrap. > Public Function GetEmployee(strEmployeeNo As String, ByRef strName As String) As Boolean > On Error GoTo HandleError > Dim qdf As QueryDef > Dim rst As Recordset > GetEmployee = False > Set qdf = CurrentDb.CreateQueryDef("") > qdf.Connect = "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;" > qdf.SQL = "SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';" > Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset(dbOpenForwardOnly, dbSQLPassThrough) > If rst.EOF <> True Then > GetEmployee = True > strName = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) > End If > rst.Close > Set rst = Nothing > qdf.Close > Set qdf = Nothing > Exit Function > HandleError: > Call Log(Err.Number & ": " & Err.Description, "modEmployeeManagement:GetEmployee") > End Function > Thanks in advance, > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon Aug 30 10:52:09 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:52:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access97 and ODBC Problem Message-ID: Gustav, What you suggested didn't work either. Your suggestion did lead me down another path. Here is what works... Public Function GetEmployee(strEmployeeNo As String, ByRef strName As String) As Boolean On Error GoTo HandleError Dim wrk As Workspace Dim con As Connection Dim rst As Recordset Set wrk = CreateWorkspace("NewWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) Set con = wrk.OpenConnection("Con", , True, "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;") GetEmployee = False Set rst = con.OpenRecordset("SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';") If rst.EOF <> True Then GetEmployee = True strname = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing con.Close Set con = Nothing wrkODBC.Close Set wrkODBC = Nothing Exit Function HandleError: Call Log(Err.Number & ": " & Err.Description, "modEmployeeManagement:GetEmployee") End Function Thanks for your help. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access97 and ODBC Problem Hi Scott Did you try separating the database and querydef objects and/or using a permanent query? Dim dbs As Database Dim qdf As QueryDef Dim rst As Recordset GetEmployee = False Set dbs = CurrentDb Set qdf = dbs.QueryDef("qdyTemp") qdf.Connect = "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;" qdf.SQL = "SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';" Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset(dbOpenForwardOnly, dbSQLPassThrough) If rst.EOF <> True Then GetEmployee = True strName = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing qdf.Close Set qdf = Nothing Set dbs = Nothing /gustav > Why would the following function work the first time it is called > but hang on subsequent calls? It locks up on the OpenRecordset > statement. I've tried variations on the OpenRecordset statement > [such as Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset()]. This is connecting to an > Oracle database. Watch for line wrap. > Public Function GetEmployee(strEmployeeNo As String, ByRef strName As String) As Boolean > On Error GoTo HandleError > Dim qdf As QueryDef > Dim rst As Recordset > GetEmployee = False > Set qdf = CurrentDb.CreateQueryDef("") > qdf.Connect = "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;" > qdf.SQL = "SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';" > Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset(dbOpenForwardOnly, dbSQLPassThrough) > If rst.EOF <> True Then > GetEmployee = True > strName = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) > End If > rst.Close > Set rst = Nothing > qdf.Close > Set qdf = Nothing > Exit Function > HandleError: > Call Log(Err.Number & ": " & Err.Description, "modEmployeeManagement:GetEmployee") > End Function > Thanks in advance, > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 30 10:53:32 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:53:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms In-Reply-To: <001b01c48e40$6fca0c20$ae1865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <018301c48ea9$80c4b9d0$6501a8c0@rock> Thanks for the tips! In my case, since the column names are generated from the dates, I'll need to revise your code a bit to make it work, but thanks for the pointer. It won't be difficult now. As the to the problem of an unwieldy number of columns, I don't think that will be a problem, particularly if I start them on the Now() column. They might even think of it as a feature! (You can also press left-arrow to see previous months :) A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms Arthur, Two alternatives could be considered - (a) No limit to the maximum number of columns to be displayed in the form. Additional columns keep getting added dynamically at run time as required. (b) Refine the cross-tab query so as to have fixed number of 12 column headings ("Jan" to "Dec" in column headings property). In such a case, the year field should be set as the dominant row heading (if any additional field is to be set as supplementary row heading, it is preferably put to the right of year field - in query design grid). From your post, you appear to be aiming at an arrangement similar to (a) above. In such a case, the following implications need to be considered - (i) The form would tend to get progressively unwieldy, with ever increasing number of columns, requiring excessive horizontal scrolling. (ii) Creation of new controls at run time requires transitory switching to design view. (iii) Such a db would not be amenable to conversion as mde file. On the other hand, alternative (b) above is free from the handicaps just mentioned, at the same time affording the convenience of two pronged scanning of data as follows - (i) Horizontally in a row - for data across various months in a given year and (ii) Vertically in a column - for data across various years in a given month. Coming to second part of your posting, automatic setting of focus to the first matching cell in datasheet, corresponding to the current date (whenever the form is opened) can be effected by putting the code given below, in form's load event. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- =================================== Private Sub Form_Load() Dim Mn As String SYear.SetFocus DoCmd.FindRecord Year(Date) Mn = Format(Date, "mmm") Me(Mn).SetFocus End Sub Note - This code is based upon the name of year field being SYear and names of column headings being "Jan" to "Dec" =================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Fuller To: AccessD Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 15:58 Subject: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms 1. I built a datasheet form from a crosstab... And no simple crosstab either, it's actually 28 crosstabs UNIONed. No problem insofar as I'm dealing with the current data. The problem will emerge when the users add new rows to the data source, which will result in additional columns that won't be dealt with in the datasheet form. So the question is, can I programmatically generate a datasheet form based on the underlying query, and if so how so? Just to be clear, the queries will generate columns from 1/1/2003 to as far as the users care to go. I need to determine the number of columns in the current form, and if that differs from the number of columns delivered by the underlying query, then programmatically add enough columns to handle it gracefully. 2. Given such a form with, say, 50 columns, all of which represent successive month-end-dates (i.e. 2/29/2004), how can I open the form and move the cursor to the month corresponding to Now()? If I can just get this to work the way I see it on the back of my eyelids, the users are going to have spiritual orgasms :) TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Aug 30 12:32:12 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:32:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089AF3@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> List, Does anyone know if IE 5xx has any issues with accessing https sites? I'm pretty sure I can get them on my home PC but I've got a laptop here at the office that serves up "page not found" errors on two of our sites (one a web app, the other a Citrix server). Thanks, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan Tarrytown, NY *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From adtp at touchtelindia.net Mon Aug 30 12:44:34 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 23:14:34 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms References: <018301c48ea9$80c4b9d0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <005101c48eb9$187aa000$781865cb@winxp> You are most welcome Arthur! If at any stage you happen to need further assistance, just let me know. The suggested solution for 12 column display of calendar months is implementable even when the source data for column headings is of date type. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Fuller To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 21:23 Subject: RE: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms Thanks for the tips! In my case, since the column names are generated from the dates, I'll need to revise your code a bit to make it work, but thanks for the pointer. It won't be difficult now. As the to the problem of an unwieldy number of columns, I don't think that will be a problem, particularly if I start them on the Now() column. They might even think of it as a feature! (You can also press left-arrow to see previous months :) A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms Arthur, Two alternatives could be considered - (a) No limit to the maximum number of columns to be displayed in the form. Additional columns keep getting added dynamically at run time as required. (b) Refine the cross-tab query so as to have fixed number of 12 column headings ("Jan" to "Dec" in column headings property). In such a case, the year field should be set as the dominant row heading (if any additional field is to be set as supplementary row heading, it is preferably put to the right of year field - in query design grid). From your post, you appear to be aiming at an arrangement similar to (a) above. In such a case, the following implications need to be considered - (i) The form would tend to get progressively unwieldy, with ever increasing number of columns, requiring excessive horizontal scrolling. (ii) Creation of new controls at run time requires transitory switching to design view. (iii) Such a db would not be amenable to conversion as mde file. On the other hand, alternative (b) above is free from the handicaps just mentioned, at the same time affording the convenience of two pronged scanning of data as follows - (i) Horizontally in a row - for data across various months in a given year and (ii) Vertically in a column - for data across various years in a given month. Coming to second part of your posting, automatic setting of focus to the first matching cell in datasheet, corresponding to the current date (whenever the form is opened) can be effected by putting the code given below, in form's load event. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- =================================== Private Sub Form_Load() Dim Mn As String SYear.SetFocus DoCmd.FindRecord Year(Date) Mn = Format(Date, "mmm") Me(Mn).SetFocus End Sub Note - This code is based upon the name of year field being SYear and names of column headings being "Jan" to "Dec" =================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Fuller To: AccessD Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 15:58 Subject: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms 1. I built a datasheet form from a crosstab... And no simple crosstab either, it's actually 28 crosstabs UNIONed. No problem insofar as I'm dealing with the current data. The problem will emerge when the users add new rows to the data source, which will result in additional columns that won't be dealt with in the datasheet form. So the question is, can I programmatically generate a datasheet form based on the underlying query, and if so how so? Just to be clear, the queries will generate columns from 1/1/2003 to as far as the users care to go. I need to determine the number of columns in the current form, and if that differs from the number of columns delivered by the underlying query, then programmatically add enough columns to handle it gracefully. 2. Given such a form with, say, 50 columns, all of which represent successive month-end-dates (i.e. 2/29/2004), how can I open the form and move the cursor to the month corresponding to Now()? If I can just get this to work the way I see it on the back of my eyelids, the users are going to have spiritual orgasms :) TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at afsweb.com Mon Aug 30 13:34:32 2004 From: ebarro at afsweb.com (Eric Barro) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:34:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089AF3@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: Check in Tools, Options on IE and in the advanced tab check if SSL 2.0, SSL 3.0 are checked under the Security section. --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:32 AM To: AccessD (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question List, Does anyone know if IE 5xx has any issues with accessing https sites? I'm pretty sure I can get them on my home PC but I've got a laptop here at the office that serves up "page not found" errors on two of our sites (one a web app, the other a Citrix server). Thanks, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan Tarrytown, NY *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Mon Aug 30 13:40:47 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:40:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089AF3@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> References: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089AF3@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:32:12 -0400, Jim DeMarco wrote: > Does anyone know if IE 5xx has any issues with accessing https sites? I'm pretty sure I can get them on my home PC but I've got a laptop here at the office that serves up "page not found" errors on two of our sites (one a web app, the other a Citrix server). Do you have any other workstations that successfully reach the site?, AFAIK IE 5xxx is find w/ reaching any https website. Additionally have you tried w/ a 3rd party browser? (say Firefox .9.3) -- -Francisco From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Aug 30 14:22:28 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:22:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089B00@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Both checked thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 2:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question Check in Tools, Options on IE and in the advanced tab check if SSL 2.0, SSL 3.0 are checked under the Security section. --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:32 AM To: AccessD (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question List, Does anyone know if IE 5xx has any issues with accessing https sites? I'm pretty sure I can get them on my home PC but I've got a laptop here at the office that serves up "page not found" errors on two of our sites (one a web app, the other a Citrix server). Thanks, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan Tarrytown, NY *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Aug 30 14:26:30 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:26:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089B01@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Thanks Francisco. That's what I thought. Most machines here run IE 6 so I've no where else to test at this point. This is an old machine I use for low-end testing. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:32:12 -0400, Jim DeMarco wrote: > Does anyone know if IE 5xx has any issues with accessing https sites? I'm pretty sure I can get them on my home PC but I've got a laptop here at the office that serves up "page not found" errors on two of our sites (one a web app, the other a Citrix server). Do you have any other workstations that successfully reach the site?, AFAIK IE 5xxx is find w/ reaching any https website. Additionally have you tried w/ a 3rd party browser? (say Firefox .9.3) -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From ebarro at afsweb.com Mon Aug 30 14:36:00 2004 From: ebarro at afsweb.com (Eric Barro) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:36:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089B00@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: Can you get to any other sites that are using SSL? You might have to check the use TLS1.0 checkbox too. Are you using proxy servers? --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 12:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question Both checked thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 2:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question Check in Tools, Options on IE and in the advanced tab check if SSL 2.0, SSL 3.0 are checked under the Security section. --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:32 AM To: AccessD (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question List, Does anyone know if IE 5xx has any issues with accessing https sites? I'm pretty sure I can get them on my home PC but I've got a laptop here at the office that serves up "page not found" errors on two of our sites (one a web app, the other a Citrix server). Thanks, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan Tarrytown, NY *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Mon Aug 30 14:38:14 2004 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:38:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089B01@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> References: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089B01@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:26:30 -0400, Jim DeMarco wrote: > Thanks Francisco. That's what I thought. Most machines here run IE 6 so I've no where else to test at this point. This is an old machine I use for low-end testing. Jim, It may be a firewall issue if you are inside a corporate network. I know where I work, I can get to some https sites, but not others. It really makes no sesne sometimes. If these are "public" sites, I can check to see if I can reach them for you with IE 5.5 on Win2K as well as Firefox 0.9.3. From behind a corporate firewall and from home if you'd like. Just send the URLs to carbonnb at gmail.com (off-line) if you want. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 30 12:41:46 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:41:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed References: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412C3AA4.408@shaw.ca> <035b01c48afd$63dcf300$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412E3513.7090306@shaw.ca> <024901c48e28$3dde2060$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <413366DA.20202@shaw.ca> I see Michael Kaplan has shifted to the dark side again and is now working full time for Microsoft in International Development ;) Some other things you may run into. Unicode and Keyboards on Windows (Article) http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/inputinwin.mspx Win XP keyboard layouts (Displays layouts on screen) http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/keyboards.aspx Old list of regional settings http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;193080 Some of this changes in newer versions of OS and Office For example WinXP SP2 now supports Welsh unicode keyboard. Hooray. However Spanish has a lot of layouts and may have increased with xp sp2 This is integer you may want to convert to hex for api calls Spanish (Traditional Sort) 1034 *!* Spanish (Mexican) 2058 *!* Spanish (Modern Sort) 3082 *!* Spanish (Guatemala) 4106 *!* Spanish (Costa Rica) 5130 *!* Spanish (Panama) 6154 *!* Spanish (Dominican Republic) 7178 *!* Spanish (Venezuela) 8202 *!* Spanish (Colombia) 9226 *!* Spanish (Peru) 10250 *!* Spanish (Argentina) 11274 *!* Spanish (Ecuador) 12298 *!* Spanish (Chile) 13322 *!* Spanish (Uruguay) 14346 *!* Spanish (Paraguay) 15370 *!* Spanish (Bolivia) 16394 *!* Spanish (El Salvador) 17418 *!* Spanish (Honduras) 18442 *!* Spanish (Nicaragua) 19466 *!* Spanish (Puerto Rico) 20490 Microsoft Office 2003 Language Settings Setting up your Office program to work in more than one language To work with different languages in your Office program, you need to enable the appropriate languages for editing by using the Microsoft Office Language Settings tool. (On the Start menu, point to Programs, point to Microsoft Office Tools, and then click Microsoft Office 2003 Language Settings.) Doing so makes additional language-specific options available. For example, if you install the English (U.S.) version of Office and you enable editing for Japanese, commands for formatting Japanese text appear on the Format menu in Microsoft Word, Microsoft PowerPoint, and Microsoft Excel. Using the Microsoft Office Language Settings tool, you can also change your default settings in Office to have them match the default settings of a different language. For example, if you are using an English version of Office but frequently work with right-to-left text, you can change the default installation language to a right-to-left language, thereby setting all of the Office defaults to right-to-left. As you work in Word and PowerPoint, you can set the language of the text so that the correct proofing tools are used, and you can add language-specific words to a custom dictionary. In Word, you can fine-tune the ways the program handles text in different languages. For example, you can turn automatic language detection on or off, sort lists and tables according to the rules of the language you choose, and summarize documents in the language you choose. Additional proofing functionality is available in Microsoft Office 2003 Proofing Tools. For more information about Proofing Tools, see the Microsoft Office Online Web site. If your organization has purchased Microsoft Office 2003 Multilingual User Interface Pack, you can also change the language of the user interface and Help. You can get so-called MUI - Multi User Interface. You can install it on top of existing operating system and have a full support for your language (including menus, dialog boxes, help, spell-checking etc.) 3) Get the multi-language version of OS. This one natively supports different localized editions of OS. Ah you want the MUI MultiLingual User Interface for the OS and Office http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/prodinfo/language/default.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/DrIntl/faqs/MUIFaq.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/four/default.htm A lot of this is covered in the ORK Office Resource Kit. Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >Marty: > >Thanks for those. It's really for Spanish, and maybe in the future >sometime, French. Hopefully I'll never have to learn how to input Chinese. > >Rocky > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:08 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > > > > >>If you are going to get deeper into this. >>Here are two rough code snippets to switch languages on the fly for data >>entry in Access. >>One uses API calls, the other keyboard events. >> >>The Canadian Government sometimes specifies bilingual French-English >>form data entry. >>I dunno how to handle DBCS languages like Chinese Big 5. As they say, >>that is left for an exercise for the student. >>You probably fiddle around with the IME. >> >> >>Public Declare Function LoadKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" Alias _ >>"LoadKeyboardLayoutA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String, ByVal Flags As Long) As >>Long >> >>Private Declare Function ActivateKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" (ByVal HKL >>As Long, _ >>ByVal Flags As Long) As Long >> >>Private Declare Function GetKeyboardLayoutName Lib "user32" Alias _ >>"GetKeyboardLayoutNameA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String) As Long >> >>Const KL_NAMELENGTH = 9 >> >>Sub testarabic() >>Dim lRet As Long >>'your language selection bar will have languages added if available on >>the machine. >> ' warning if bar isn't visible on screen taskbar or floating version, >>you may have to go to control panel to reset >>' to proper language desired. >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For English >> Debug.Print lRet >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) >> Debug.Print lRet >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000401", 1) ' For Arabic >> Debug.Print lRet >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000401", 0) >> Debug.Print lRet >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00011009", 1) ' For FrenchCanadian >> Debug.Print lRet >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00011009", 0) >> Debug.Print lRet >>End Sub >> >>Sub resetenglish() >>Dim lRet As Long >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For US English >> Debug.Print lRet >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) >> Debug.Print lRet >>End Sub >> >>Sub whatiskeybd() >> Dim strName As String >> 'Create a buffer >> strName = String(KL_NAMELENGTH, 0) >> 'Get the keyboard layout name >> GetKeyboardLayoutName strName >> Debug.Print "Keyboard layout name: " & strName >>End Sub >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>Alternate method for bilingual entry on textboxes >>assumes you have only two languages on language bar >>or you are using only one hot key switch >> >>'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/Unicode-KbdsonWindows.pdf >>'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/nlsweb/default.asp?submitted=40d >> >>'Part of the file Win32api.txt: >>' >>' VK_L VK_R - left and right Alt, Ctrl and Shift virtual keys. >>' Used only as parameters to GetAsyncKeyState() and GetKeyState(). >>' No other API or message will distinguish left and right keys in this >>'way. >>' / >>Public Const VK_LSHIFT = &HA0 >>Public Const VK_RSHIFT = &HA1 >>Public Const VK_LCONTROL = &HA2 >>Public Const VK_RCONTROL = &HA3 >>Public Const VK_LMENU = &HA4 >>Public Const VK_RMENU = &HA5 >> >>'What a weird name for the Alt-key. but it does use the menu >> >>Private Const VK_LWIN = &H5B 'Left window button >>Private Const VK_RETURN = &HD 'ENTER key >>Private Const VK_SHIFT = &H10 'SHIFT key >>Private Const VK_CONTROL = &H11 'CTRL key >>Private Const VK_MENU = &H12 'ALT key >>Private Const VK_PAUSE = &H13 'PAUSE key >>Private Const VK_CAPITAL = &H14 'CAPS LOCK key >>Private Const VK_SNAPSHOT = &H2C 'Print Screen >>Private Const VK_APPS = &H5D >> 'Applications key on a Microsoft Natural Keyboard >>'from http://support.microsoft.com/view/dev.asp?kb=242971 >> >>Const GW_HWNDFIRST = 0 >>Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 >>Private Const KEYEVENTF_KEYUP = &H2 >> >>Private Declare Sub keybd_event Lib "user32" (ByVal bVk As Byte, _ >> ByVal bScan As Byte, ByVal dwFlags As Long, ByVal dwExtraInfo As Long) >> >>Sub ShiftToLanguage() >>'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox >>'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: >> >> ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key >> 'order of pressing important >> keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 >> keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, 0, 0 >> >> >> keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 >>'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock >>'has been left on >> keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 >> Debug.Print "Shift" >> DoEvents >> >>End Sub >> >>Sub ShiftToLanguageBack() >>'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox >>'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: >> >> ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key >> 'order of pressing important >> keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 >> keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, 0, 0 >> >> >> keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 >>'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock >>'has been left on >> keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 >> Debug.Print "Shift Back" >> DoEvents >> >>End Sub >> >>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >> >> >> >>>Marty: >>> >>>Don't know exactly how I did it, but I got the alternate keyboard. AND I >>>can key the accent marks directly in an Access table now. >>> >>>Thanks to all >>> >>>Best, >>> >>>Rocky Smolin >>>Beach Access Software >>>http://www.e-z-mrp.com >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "MartyConnelly" >>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:07 AM >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Another Method >>>> >>>>Win XP Control Panel --> Regional Language Settings--> Languages >>>>--Details --> Installed services >>>>Add the Spanish Keyboard in addition to English. >>>> >>>>Other button option selections >>>> >>>>Language -choose to float Keyboard Language Bar on Screen as transparent >>>>or in tasktray >>>>I prefer floating bar rather cluttering TaskTray icon >>>> >>>>Key Settings choose a hotkey to switch language keyboard. >>>> >>>>This will give you a floating keyboard selection bar >>>> >>>>Defualt To change language keyboards when typing toggle ALT - Right >>>> >>>> >Shift > > >>>>You can also do this by VBA code. I have used to sense Keyboard >>>>language state and switch between French or English Text boxes on same >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>form >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>There are probably pictures of spanish keyboard mappings at >>>>http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev >>>> >>>>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Stuart: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when >>>>>keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>mdb >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>where I have to key all this Spanish. >>>>> >>>>>Rocky >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Stuart McLachlan" >>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>>>> >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:42 PM >>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a >>>>>>>terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the >>>>>>>vowels. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut >>>>>> >>>>>> >and > > >>>>>>paste. >>>>>> >>>>>>>From the Word Help: >>>>>>To insert Press >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ?, ? >>>>>>?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, Y CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A >>>>>> >>>>>>o, O CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+/, o or O >>>>>> >>>>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? >>>>>> >>>>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! >>>>>>-- >>>>>>Stuart >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>-- >>>>Marty Connelly >>>>Victoria, B.C. >>>>Canada >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Aug 30 16:29:15 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 14:29:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed References: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412C3AA4.408@shaw.ca> <035b01c48afd$63dcf300$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412E3513.7090306@shaw.ca> <024901c48e28$3dde2060$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <413366DA.20202@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <024001c48ed8$66cd57b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Muchas Gracias. Sr. Smol?n (<-- see?. I can do it now!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > I see Michael Kaplan has shifted to the dark side again and is now > working full time for Microsoft in International Development ;) > Some other things you may run into. > > Unicode and Keyboards on Windows (Article) > http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/inputinwin.mspx > Win XP keyboard layouts (Displays layouts on screen) > http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/keyboards.aspx > Old list of regional settings > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;193080 > > Some of this changes in newer versions of OS and Office > For example WinXP SP2 now supports Welsh unicode keyboard. Hooray. > > > However Spanish has a lot of layouts and may have increased with xp sp2 > This is integer you may want to convert to hex for api calls > Spanish (Traditional Sort) 1034 > *!* Spanish (Mexican) 2058 > *!* Spanish (Modern Sort) 3082 > *!* Spanish (Guatemala) 4106 > *!* Spanish (Costa Rica) 5130 > *!* Spanish (Panama) 6154 > *!* Spanish (Dominican Republic) 7178 > *!* Spanish (Venezuela) 8202 > *!* Spanish (Colombia) 9226 > *!* Spanish (Peru) 10250 > *!* Spanish (Argentina) 11274 > *!* Spanish (Ecuador) 12298 > *!* Spanish (Chile) 13322 > *!* Spanish (Uruguay) 14346 > *!* Spanish (Paraguay) 15370 > *!* Spanish (Bolivia) 16394 > *!* Spanish (El Salvador) 17418 > *!* Spanish (Honduras) 18442 > *!* Spanish (Nicaragua) 19466 > *!* Spanish (Puerto Rico) 20490 > > Microsoft Office 2003 Language Settings > Setting up your Office program to work in more than one language > > To work with different languages in your Office program, you need to > enable the appropriate languages for editing by using the Microsoft > Office Language > Settings tool. (On the Start menu, point to Programs, point to Microsoft > Office Tools, and then click Microsoft Office 2003 Language Settings.) > Doing so makes > additional language-specific options available. For example, if you > install the English (U.S.) version of Office and you enable editing for > Japanese, commands > for formatting Japanese text appear on the Format menu in Microsoft > Word, Microsoft PowerPoint, and Microsoft Excel. > Using the Microsoft Office Language Settings tool, you can also change > your default settings in Office to have them match the default settings > of a different > language. For example, if you are using an English version of Office but > frequently work with right-to-left text, you can change the default > installation language to > a right-to-left language, thereby setting all of the Office defaults to > right-to-left. > > As you work in Word and PowerPoint, you can set the language of the text > so that the correct proofing tools are used, and you can add > language-specific words > to a custom dictionary. In Word, you can fine-tune the ways the program > handles text in different languages. For example, you can turn automatic > language > detection on or off, sort lists and tables according to the rules of the > language you choose, and summarize documents in the language you choose. > Additional > proofing functionality is available in Microsoft Office 2003 Proofing > Tools. For more information about Proofing Tools, see the Microsoft > Office Online Web site. > If your organization has purchased Microsoft Office 2003 Multilingual > User Interface Pack, you can also change the language of the user > interface and Help. > You can get so-called MUI - Multi User Interface. You can install it on > top of existing operating system and have a full support for your language > (including menus, dialog boxes, help, spell-checking etc.) > 3) Get the multi-language version of OS. This one natively supports > different localized editions of OS. > > Ah you want the MUI MultiLingual User Interface for the OS and Office > > http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/prodinfo/language/default.mspx > http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/DrIntl/faqs/MUIFaq.mspx > http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/four/default.htm > > A lot of this is covered in the ORK Office Resource Kit. > > > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > > >Marty: > > > >Thanks for those. It's really for Spanish, and maybe in the future > >sometime, French. Hopefully I'll never have to learn how to input Chinese. > > > >Rocky > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "MartyConnelly" > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:08 PM > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > > > > > > > > > >>If you are going to get deeper into this. > >>Here are two rough code snippets to switch languages on the fly for data > >>entry in Access. > >>One uses API calls, the other keyboard events. > >> > >>The Canadian Government sometimes specifies bilingual French-English > >>form data entry. > >>I dunno how to handle DBCS languages like Chinese Big 5. As they say, > >>that is left for an exercise for the student. > >>You probably fiddle around with the IME. > >> > >> > >>Public Declare Function LoadKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" Alias _ > >>"LoadKeyboardLayoutA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String, ByVal Flags As Long) As > >>Long > >> > >>Private Declare Function ActivateKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" (ByVal HKL > >>As Long, _ > >>ByVal Flags As Long) As Long > >> > >>Private Declare Function GetKeyboardLayoutName Lib "user32" Alias _ > >>"GetKeyboardLayoutNameA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String) As Long > >> > >>Const KL_NAMELENGTH = 9 > >> > >>Sub testarabic() > >>Dim lRet As Long > >>'your language selection bar will have languages added if available on > >>the machine. > >> ' warning if bar isn't visible on screen taskbar or floating version, > >>you may have to go to control panel to reset > >>' to proper language desired. > >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For English > >> Debug.Print lRet > >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) > >> Debug.Print lRet > >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000401", 1) ' For Arabic > >> Debug.Print lRet > >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000401", 0) > >> Debug.Print lRet > >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00011009", 1) ' For FrenchCanadian > >> Debug.Print lRet > >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00011009", 0) > >> Debug.Print lRet > >>End Sub > >> > >>Sub resetenglish() > >>Dim lRet As Long > >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For US English > >> Debug.Print lRet > >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) > >> Debug.Print lRet > >>End Sub > >> > >>Sub whatiskeybd() > >> Dim strName As String > >> 'Create a buffer > >> strName = String(KL_NAMELENGTH, 0) > >> 'Get the keyboard layout name > >> GetKeyboardLayoutName strName > >> Debug.Print "Keyboard layout name: " & strName > >>End Sub > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >>Alternate method for bilingual entry on textboxes > >>assumes you have only two languages on language bar > >>or you are using only one hot key switch > >> > >>'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/Unicode-KbdsonWindows.pdf > >>'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/nlsweb/default.asp?submitted=40d > >> > >>'Part of the file Win32api.txt: > >>' > >>' VK_L VK_R - left and right Alt, Ctrl and Shift virtual keys. > >>' Used only as parameters to GetAsyncKeyState() and GetKeyState(). > >>' No other API or message will distinguish left and right keys in this > >>'way. > >>' / > >>Public Const VK_LSHIFT = &HA0 > >>Public Const VK_RSHIFT = &HA1 > >>Public Const VK_LCONTROL = &HA2 > >>Public Const VK_RCONTROL = &HA3 > >>Public Const VK_LMENU = &HA4 > >>Public Const VK_RMENU = &HA5 > >> > >>'What a weird name for the Alt-key. but it does use the menu > >> > >>Private Const VK_LWIN = &H5B 'Left window button > >>Private Const VK_RETURN = &HD 'ENTER key > >>Private Const VK_SHIFT = &H10 'SHIFT key > >>Private Const VK_CONTROL = &H11 'CTRL key > >>Private Const VK_MENU = &H12 'ALT key > >>Private Const VK_PAUSE = &H13 'PAUSE key > >>Private Const VK_CAPITAL = &H14 'CAPS LOCK key > >>Private Const VK_SNAPSHOT = &H2C 'Print Screen > >>Private Const VK_APPS = &H5D > >> 'Applications key on a Microsoft Natural Keyboard > >>'from http://support.microsoft.com/view/dev.asp?kb=242971 > >> > >>Const GW_HWNDFIRST = 0 > >>Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 > >>Private Const KEYEVENTF_KEYUP = &H2 > >> > >>Private Declare Sub keybd_event Lib "user32" (ByVal bVk As Byte, _ > >> ByVal bScan As Byte, ByVal dwFlags As Long, ByVal dwExtraInfo As Long) > >> > >>Sub ShiftToLanguage() > >>'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox > >>'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: > >> > >> ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key > >> 'order of pressing important > >> keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 > >> keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, 0, 0 > >> > >> > >> keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > >>'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock > >>'has been left on > >> keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > >> Debug.Print "Shift" > >> DoEvents > >> > >>End Sub > >> > >>Sub ShiftToLanguageBack() > >>'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox > >>'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: > >> > >> ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key > >> 'order of pressing important > >> keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 > >> keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, 0, 0 > >> > >> > >> keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > >>'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock > >>'has been left on > >> keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > >> Debug.Print "Shift Back" > >> DoEvents > >> > >>End Sub > >> > >>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Marty: > >>> > >>>Don't know exactly how I did it, but I got the alternate keyboard. AND I > >>>can key the accent marks directly in an Access table now. > >>> > >>>Thanks to all > >>> > >>>Best, > >>> > >>>Rocky Smolin > >>>Beach Access Software > >>>http://www.e-z-mrp.com > >>> > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: "MartyConnelly" > >>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>> > >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:07 AM > >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Another Method > >>>> > >>>>Win XP Control Panel --> Regional Language Settings--> Languages > >>>>--Details --> Installed services > >>>>Add the Spanish Keyboard in addition to English. > >>>> > >>>>Other button option selections > >>>> > >>>>Language -choose to float Keyboard Language Bar on Screen as transparent > >>>>or in tasktray > >>>>I prefer floating bar rather cluttering TaskTray icon > >>>> > >>>>Key Settings choose a hotkey to switch language keyboard. > >>>> > >>>>This will give you a floating keyboard selection bar > >>>> > >>>>Defualt To change language keyboards when typing toggle ALT - Right > >>>> > >>>> > >Shift > > > > > >>>>You can also do this by VBA code. I have used to sense Keyboard > >>>>language state and switch between French or English Text boxes on same > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>form > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>There are probably pictures of spanish keyboard mappings at > >>>>http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev > >>>> > >>>>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Stuart: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when > >>>>>keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>mdb > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>where I have to key all this Spanish. > >>>>> > >>>>>Rocky > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>From: "Stuart McLachlan" > >>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>>>> > >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:42 PM > >>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a > >>>>>>>terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the > >>>>>>>vowels. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >and > > > > > >>>>>>paste. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>From the Word Help: > >>>>>>To insert Press > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ?, ? > >>>>>>?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, Y CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A > >>>>>> > >>>>>>o, O CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+/, o or O > >>>>>> > >>>>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? > >>>>>> > >>>>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! > >>>>>>-- > >>>>>>Stuart > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>-- > >>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>Marty Connelly > >>>>Victoria, B.C. > >>>>Canada > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>AccessD mailing list > >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>Marty Connelly > >>Victoria, B.C. > >>Canada > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>AccessD mailing list > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 31 02:48:38 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:48:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record Message-ID: 65 million! What an amazing world you work it. Is there ever time in the week to pop home for an hour? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 27 August 2004 16:39 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Gustav, I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > things up I am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Tue Aug 31 04:31:00 2004 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:31:00 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash Message-ID: Hi My similar experience with Access(97) running under XP (with Office XP installed) when exporting text data was that if the export text filename did not have an file extension e.g. MyDownloadFile, Access would hang. Exporting to MyDownloadFile.txt would solve the issue. May or may not be relevant here (I was using Acc 97 but it was the XP OS (or Office XP) that seemed to be the issue here). Richard -----Original Message----- From: David Emerson [mailto:davide at dalyn.co.nz] Sent: 30 August 2004 06:26 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash That solved most of the problem. Now the commands work on the server. However, it is used as a terminal server. Although it runs fine when using the program direct on the computer, if anyone connects to a terminal server session they still get the same crashing. Any pointers on this one!! David At 27/08/2004, you wrote: >Oh and one other thing to check that you have installed >Overview of Office XP Service Pack 3 for Access 2002 Runtime. Note this is >in addition to normal SP3 >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;834693&Product= acc > >MartyConnelly wrote: > >>Well it looks like different Office XP service packs on the machines, XP >>SP-3 on your development machine. >>Are you doing a full new runtime install on the server, or just passing >>over the adp file to the server with changes.? >>This could lead to problems. >> >>David Emerson wrote: >> >>>Group, >>> >>>I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 >>>Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or DoCmd.TransferText >>>commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in MSAccess.exe). >>> >>>Examples are - >>> >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, >>>strTableName, strFullName >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, >>>False >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >>>"dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >>>"dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", >>>strFullName >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True >>>DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, False >>> >>>The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with >>>Office 97 and Office XP). >>> >>>I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. >>> >>>Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of >>>the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on my >>>machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program Files\Microsoft >>>Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version 10.0.2627.1. >>> >>>Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? >>> >>> >>>Regards >>> >>>David Emerson >>>Dalyn Software Ltd >>>25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >>>Wellington, New Zealand >>>Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 >>>Mobile 027-280-9348 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 31 06:11:39 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:11:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Determine OS and version via VBA Message-ID: Hello all I used to have a little code jewel from the list tucked away in my own personal little archive that would allow me to determine the OS in VBA- But alas since the death of the laptop my personal stash has gone So....Anyone got any code to determine the OS and version? Many thanks in advance Darren From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 31 06:12:30 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 07:12:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201c48f4b$6b8b0a90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Paul, In fact I am trying to make this run on my home system which is part of the problem. This week I am playing "stay-at-home dad" as my wife starts the chhool year this week and has all those 1st week teacher meetings / training. I have never come even close to a db this size and it has definitely been a learning experience. Here's hoping I survive. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 3:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record 65 million! What an amazing world you work it. Is there ever time in the week to pop home for an hour? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 27 August 2004 16:39 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Gustav, I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > things up I am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Aug 31 06:43:04 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:43:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Determine OS and version via VBA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4134F0E8.2471.2BB4250@lexacorp.com.pg> On 31 Aug 2004 at 21:11, Darren DICK wrote: > Anyone got any code to determine the OS and version? > Simple one: Declare Function GetVersion Lib "kernel32" () As Long Public Function GetWinVersion() As String Dim Ver As Long, WinVer As Long Ver = GetVersion() WinVer = Ver And &HFFFF& 'retrieve the windows version GetWinVersion = Format((WinVer Mod 256) + ((WinVer \ 256) / 100), "Fixed") End Function Longer one: Declare Function GetVersionEx Lib "kernel32" Alias "GetVersionExA" _ (lpVersionInformation As OSVERSIONINFO) As Long Type OSVERSIONINFO dwOSVersionInfoSize As Long dwMajorVersion As Long dwMinorVersion As Long dwBuildNumber As Long dwPlatformId As Long szCSDVersion As String * 128 End Type Function GetWinVersion2() As String Dim OSInfo As OSVERSIONINFO Dim lngRetVal As Long Dim strVersion As String OSInfo.dwOSVersionInfoSize = Len(OSInfo) lngRetVal = GetVersionEx(OSInfo) If lngRetVal = 0 Then GetWinVersion2 = "Error Getting Version Information" Else Select Case OSInfo.dwPlatformId Case 0 strVersion = "Windows 32s " Case 1 strVersion = "Windows 95/98" Case 2 strVersion = "Windows NT " End Select strVersion = strVersion & " Win version:" _ & Str$(OSInfo.dwMajorVersion) & "." _ & LTrim(Str(OSInfo.dwMinorVersion)) _ & " Build: " + Str(OSInfo.dwBuildNumber) GetWinVersion2 = strVersion End If End Function -- Stuart From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 31 06:57:25 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:57:25 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Determine OS and version via VBA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18220136144.20040831135725@cactus.dk> Hi Darren > I used to have a little code jewel from the list tucked away in my own > personal little archive that would allow me to determine the OS in VBA- But > alas since the death of the laptop my personal stash has gone So....Anyone > got any code to determine the OS and version? We use this module: Option Compare Database Option Explicit ' Major Minor ' OS Platform Version Version Build ' ' Windows 95 1 4 0 ' Windows 98 1 4 10 1998 ' Windows 98SE 1 4 10 2222 ' Windows ME 1 4 90 3000 ' NT 3.51 2 3 51 ' NT 2 4 0 1381 ' 2000 2 5 0 ' XP 2 5 1 2600 ' Server 2003 2 5 2 ' Code based on MS API documentation. ' 2004-07-02. Assembled by Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Private Const VER_PLATFORM_WIN32s As Long = 0 ' Win32s on Windows 3.1x. Private Const VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_WINDOWS As Long = 1 ' Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME. Private Const VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT As Long = 2 ' Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Server 2003. Private Const clngCSDVersion As Long = 128 Private Type OSVERSIONINFO dwOSVersionInfoSize As Long dwMajorVersion As Long dwMinorVersion As Long dwBuildNumber As Long dwPlatformId As Long szCSDVersion As String * clngCSDVersion End Type Private Declare Function GetVersionEx Lib "kernel32" Alias "GetVersionExA" ( _ ByRef lpVersionInformation As OSVERSIONINFO) _ As Long Public Function GetVersion() As String ' Retrieves version of current Windows OS. ' Returns version as full string. ' ' 2004-07-02. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim OSV As OSVERSIONINFO Dim strVersion As String OSV.dwOSVersionInfoSize = Len(OSV) OSV.szCSDVersion = Space$(clngCSDVersion) GetVersionEx OSV With OSV ' Service Pack info string. Debug.Print .szCSDVersion Select Case .dwPlatformId Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32s ' Win32s on Windows 3.1x. strVersion = "Windows 3.1" Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_WINDOWS ' Windows 95, Windows 98, Select Case .dwMinorVersion ' Windows ME. Case 0 strVersion = "Windows 95" Case 10 If (.dwBuildNumber And &HFFFF&) = 2222 Then strVersion = "Windows 98SE" Else strVersion = "Windows 98" End If Case 90 strVersion = "Windows ME" End Select Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT ' Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Select Case .dwMajorVersion ' Windows Server 2003. Case 3 strVersion = "Windows NT 3.51" Case 4 strVersion = "Windows NT 4.0" Case 5 Select Case .dwMinorVersion Case 0 strVersion = "Windows 2000" Case 1 strVersion = "Windows XP" Case 2 strVersion = "Windows Server 2003" End Select End Select Case Else strVersion = "Unknown" End Select End With GetVersion = strVersion End Function Public Function IsWinXP() As Boolean ' Checks current Windows OS. ' Returns True if OS is Win XP or Server 2003. ' ' 2004-07-07. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim OSV As OSVERSIONINFO Dim booVersion As Boolean OSV.dwOSVersionInfoSize = Len(OSV) GetVersionEx OSV With OSV Select Case .dwPlatformId Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT ' Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Select Case .dwMajorVersion ' Windows Server 2003. Case 5 Select Case .dwMinorVersion Case 0 ' strVersion = "Windows 2000" Case 1 ' strVersion = "Windows XP" booVersion = True Case 2 ' strVersion = "Windows Server 2003" booVersion = True End Select End Select End Select End With IsWinXP = booVersion End Function Have fun! /gustav From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 31 08:07:44 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:07:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record Message-ID: Somehow I suspect there's not much doubt about it. Sounds a brilliant life. Yes, school's going back here too with all that accompanying wonderful craziness. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 31 August 2004 12:13 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Paul, In fact I am trying to make this run on my home system which is part of the problem. This week I am playing "stay-at-home dad" as my wife starts the chhool year this week and has all those 1st week teacher meetings / training. I have never come even close to a db this size and it has definitely been a learning experience. Here's hoping I survive. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com ___ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From JHewson at karta.com Tue Aug 31 10:15:59 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:15:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Columns with composite data Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E29C@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Just curious if anyone has done this before. I created a report with four columns. The columns run down, then across. The fourth column of page 3 is about half way down the page in length. Is it possible to use the remainder of the column space for a composite data? E.g. total number of records or something similar. If put in the Report footer, a new page is generated. I currently put such information in the Report Header. Thanks, Jim From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 10:44:29 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:44:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Gmail Invite (D) Message-ID: Ok, here it is again, a Gmail Invite Reply off list w/ a funny joke, the Invite goes to the first response. -- -Francisco From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 10:46:13 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:46:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] JIT Forms? Message-ID: Anyone have a link, or advice on creating controls JIT? Access2000 / ADP I have an unbound form, that I'd like to pass a recordset to and thus be able to on-the-fly create controls that match the recordset... any ideas? -- -Francisco From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 31 12:47:27 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:47:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] JIT Forms? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c48f82$95d45ea0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> You can do that but only in design view. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] JIT Forms? Anyone have a link, or advice on creating controls JIT? Access2000 / ADP I have an unbound form, that I'd like to pass a recordset to and thus be able to on-the-fly create controls that match the recordset... any ideas? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 15:26:46 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:26:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] test Message-ID: test -- -Francisco From my.lists at verizon.net Tue Aug 31 15:27:24 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:27:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] test2 Message-ID: <4134DF2C.4040902@verizon.net> test2 -- -Francisco From ppeters1 at cce.umn.edu Tue Aug 31 16:25:02 2004 From: ppeters1 at cce.umn.edu (Polly R Peterson) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:25:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Preparing Access Applications for Office 2003 Conversion Message-ID: If any of you have experience/advice on this issue we would appreciate your input. Thanks in advance! -Polly P. ________________________________________________________________________ ___________________ PROBLEM: Converting from Office XP to Office 2003 raises security warning messages in Access .ADP applications that are delivered to users via a standard image. CONVERSION SECURITY ISSUE: When testing our .adp applications in an Office 2003 test environment, we find the following results: * When macro security is set to high applications basically do not function. * When macro security is set to medium, a security warning appears at startup: "This file may not be safe if it contains code that was intended to harm your computer. Do you want to open the file or cancel the operation?" If you select 'open' then the application appears to function normally * When macro security is set to low: Everything appears to function normally. OUR PROPOSED SOLUTION: Microsoft recommends setting Macro Security to medium or high in Access applications. After reading several articles, I'm leaning toward the following solution: Set Access macro security to medium and disable the security warning. >From what I've read, it's possible for an administrator to do this via Certificate Server on Windows 2000/2003 Server. The administrator could create a digital signature that would be valid across the domain. This digital signature certificate would essentially turn off the error message you see if macro security settings are at medium. QUESTIONS 1. How can we best adopt Microsoft's security recommendations and avoid this error message? 2. Does our solution seem sensible? Has anyone actually done this before? Are their details I'm overlooking? How have others dealt with this conversion? 3. Where can we see what security level we are currently using in Access 2002? The Tools, Macro, Security path isn't an option in 2002 and I can't find much on Macro security in that environment. SPECS: We're currently running Office XP, Access 2002, MS Jet 4.0 sp 8 (4.0.8618.0), Security Level: ? We're Migrating to Office 2003, Access 2003, MS Jet 4.0 sp 8 (4.0.8618.0), Security Level Medium From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue Aug 31 16:44:32 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:44:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] test Message-ID: You passed. -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 4:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] test test -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davide at dalyn.co.nz Tue Aug 31 13:51:21 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 06:51:21 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040901065033.00b2c0b0@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks for the suggestion. All the file names have the extension included. David At 31/08/2004, you wrote: >Hi > > >My similar experience with Access(97) running under XP (with Office XP >installed) when exporting text data was that if the export text filename >did not have an file extension e.g. MyDownloadFile, Access would hang. >Exporting to MyDownloadFile.txt would solve the issue. May or may not >be relevant here (I was using Acc 97 but it was the XP OS (or Office XP) >that seemed to be the issue here). > >Richard > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Emerson [mailto:davide at dalyn.co.nz] >Sent: 30 August 2004 06:26 >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash > >That solved most of the problem. Now the commands work on the server. > >However, it is used as a terminal server. Although it runs fine when >using >the program direct on the computer, if anyone connects to a terminal >server >session they still get the same crashing. > >Any pointers on this one!! > >David > >At 27/08/2004, you wrote: > >Oh and one other thing to check that you have installed > >Overview of Office XP Service Pack 3 for Access 2002 Runtime. Note this >is > >in addition to normal SP3 > >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;834693&Product= >acc > > > >MartyConnelly wrote: > > > >>Well it looks like different Office XP service packs on the machines, >XP > >>SP-3 on your development machine. > >>Are you doing a full new runtime install on the server, or just >passing > >>over the adp file to the server with changes.? > >>This could lead to problems. > >> > >>David Emerson wrote: > >> > >>>Group, > >>> > >>>I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 > >>>Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or >DoCmd.TransferText > >>>commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in MSAccess.exe). > >>> > >>>Examples are - > >>> > >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, > >>>strTableName, strFullName > >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", >strFullName, > >>>False > >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, > >>>"dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True > >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, > >>>"dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile > >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", > >>>strFullName > >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", > >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True > >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", > >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True > >>>DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", >strFullName, False > >>> > >>>The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with > >>>Office 97 and Office XP). > >>> > >>>I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. > >>> > >>>Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of > > >>>the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on >my > >>>machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program >Files\Microsoft > >>>Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version 10.0.2627.1. > >>> > >>>Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? > >>> > >>> > >>>Regards > >>> > >>>David Emerson > >>>Dalyn Software Ltd > >>>25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park > >>>Wellington, New Zealand > >>>Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 > >>>Mobile 027-280-9348 From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 17:29:05 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:29:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just a slow day then? (no posts?) On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:44:32 -0400, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) wrote: > You passed. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 4:27 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] test > > test > -- > -Francisco > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco From artful at rogers.com Tue Aug 31 18:35:08 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:35:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] JIT Forms? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <036401c48fb3$2724fd30$6501a8c0@rock> Me too! Wrapped in a little clever code, this request could result in an automated app-gen thingie that manufactures forms for every table, respects the relationships diagram, and acts accordingly. That could save us ALL a lot of time! A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] JIT Forms? Anyone have a link, or advice on creating controls JIT? Access2000 / ADP I have an unbound form, that I'd like to pass a recordset to and thus be able to on-the-fly create controls that match the recordset... any ideas? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 31 18:40:07 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:40:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Will an A2K MDE run unde A2003? Message-ID: <001701c48fb3$d92f7320$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I have to call a guy tomorrow morning and tell him whether my software will work in Access 2003. I compile it into an MDE under Access 2000. I know that MDE will run under Access 2002. Will the MDE run in 2003? I also have Access 2002 which I could use to make an MDE. Would an MDE compiled under Access 2002 run under Access 2003? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From artful at rogers.com Tue Aug 31 18:32:55 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:32:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <001201c48f4b$6b8b0a90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <036301c48fb2$d77ab3b0$6501a8c0@rock> Just to put things in perspective, JC, the first client of the people who developed MySQL had 60M rows in their principal table. There are lots of apps way bigger than that. I once had a client that was adding 10M rows per month to the table of concern (this was an app recording seismic activity from several hundred meters). I must caution you that you should not use the term VLDB as loosely as you have been using it. You don't know the meaning of VLDB -- not yet at least. You're beginning to appreciate the turf, however. Once I bid on a project that had 100M rows each containing a graphic file. Not to say that size is everything, but IMO VLDB comprises at least a TB, and often many hundreds of TBs. I just got a contract with a company using MySQL whose test database's most important table comprises 100M rows. They expect their clients to have 10* as many rows. My job is to optimize the queries. Fortunately, I can assume any hardware I deem necessary to do it. They are after sub-second retrieves against 1B rows, with maybe 1000 users. Life's a beach and then you drown. I don't know if I can deliver what they want, but what I can deliver is benchmarks against the various DBs that I'm comfortable with -- SQL 2000, Oracle, MySQL and DB/2. I figure that if none of them can do it, I'm off the hook :) The difficult part of this new assignment is that there's no way I can duplicate the hardware resources required to emulate the required system, so I have to assume that the benchmarks on my local system will hold up in a load-leveling 100-server environment -- at least until I have something worthy of installing and then test it in that environment. I sympathize and empathize with your situation, JC. It's amazing how many of our tried-and-true solutions go right out the window when you escalate the number of rows to 100M -- and then factor in multiple joins. Stuff that looks spectacular with only 1M rows suddenly sucks big-time when applied to 100M rows. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Paul, In fact I am trying to make this run on my home system which is part of the problem. This week I am playing "stay-at-home dad" as my wife starts the chhool year this week and has all those 1st week teacher meetings / training. I have never come even close to a db this size and it has definitely been a learning experience. Here's hoping I survive. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 3:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record 65 million! What an amazing world you work it. Is there ever time in the week to pop home for an hour? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 27 August 2004 16:39 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Gustav, I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > things up I am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 19:01:30 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:01:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <036301c48fb2$d77ab3b0$6501a8c0@rock> References: <036301c48fb2$d77ab3b0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: For the record I think it was me who applied the term VLDB to his db :D. Even thow I've been my dept's DBA for the last 3 years, I have not run into any company database that touches the Millions of records, the only tables that I have that contain a near enough number of consequential tables, (auditing) On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:32:55 -0400, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Just to put things in perspective, JC, the first client of the people > who developed MySQL had 60M rows in their principal table. There are > lots of apps way bigger than that. I once had a client that was adding > 10M rows per month to the table of concern (this was an app recording > seismic activity from several hundred meters). I must caution you that > you should not use the term VLDB as loosely as you have been using it. > You don't know the meaning of VLDB -- not yet at least. You're beginning > to appreciate the turf, however. Once I bid on a project that had 100M > rows each containing a graphic file. Not to say that size is everything, > but IMO VLDB comprises at least a TB, and often many hundreds of TBs. -- -Francisco From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 19:03:20 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:03:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Will an A2K MDE run unde A2003? In-Reply-To: <001701c48fb3$d92f7320$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <001701c48fb3$d92f7320$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: I am curious as to why you don't deploy it w/ a runtime?, I mean you don't have it as opensource to allow the customer to work w/ the app. On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:40:07 -0700, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > Dear List: > > I have to call a guy tomorrow morning and tell him whether my software will work in Access 2003. I compile it into an MDE under Access 2000. I know that MDE will run under Access 2002. Will the MDE run in 2003? > > I also have Access 2002 which I could use to make an MDE. Would an MDE compiled under Access 2002 run under Access 2003? > -- -Francisco From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 31 19:25:07 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:25:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <036301c48fb2$d77ab3b0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <000d01c48fba$264f5980$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> In fact the client has another database that has 125 million addresses, another that has 14 million more people, and another that handles all their sports mailings. They would like to merge them all. I just bought a 3ghz socket 754 Athlon 64 which I am loading with Win2K and SQL Server tonight. I can only pray that this gives me SOMETHING in the way of a speedup against my old AMD Athlon 2500. I have to examine my options, down to splitting up the database and having different machines process pieces. I also have to learn to tune SQL Server. Since I am starting from "know absolutely nothing" it shouldn't be too hard to get better results over time. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Just to put things in perspective, JC, the first client of the people who developed MySQL had 60M rows in their principal table. There are lots of apps way bigger than that. I once had a client that was adding 10M rows per month to the table of concern (this was an app recording seismic activity from several hundred meters). I must caution you that you should not use the term VLDB as loosely as you have been using it. You don't know the meaning of VLDB -- not yet at least. You're beginning to appreciate the turf, however. Once I bid on a project that had 100M rows each containing a graphic file. Not to say that size is everything, but IMO VLDB comprises at least a TB, and often many hundreds of TBs. I just got a contract with a company using MySQL whose test database's most important table comprises 100M rows. They expect their clients to have 10* as many rows. My job is to optimize the queries. Fortunately, I can assume any hardware I deem necessary to do it. They are after sub-second retrieves against 1B rows, with maybe 1000 users. Life's a beach and then you drown. I don't know if I can deliver what they want, but what I can deliver is benchmarks against the various DBs that I'm comfortable with -- SQL 2000, Oracle, MySQL and DB/2. I figure that if none of them can do it, I'm off the hook :) The difficult part of this new assignment is that there's no way I can duplicate the hardware resources required to emulate the required system, so I have to assume that the benchmarks on my local system will hold up in a load-leveling 100-server environment -- at least until I have something worthy of installing and then test it in that environment. I sympathize and empathize with your situation, JC. It's amazing how many of our tried-and-true solutions go right out the window when you escalate the number of rows to 100M -- and then factor in multiple joins. Stuff that looks spectacular with only 1M rows suddenly sucks big-time when applied to 100M rows. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Paul, In fact I am trying to make this run on my home system which is part of the problem. This week I am playing "stay-at-home dad" as my wife starts the chhool year this week and has all those 1st week teacher meetings / training. I have never come even close to a db this size and it has definitely been a learning experience. Here's hoping I survive. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 3:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record 65 million! What an amazing world you work it. Is there ever time in the week to pop home for an hour? Cheers paul From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 31 20:10:16 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:10:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Rotating Excel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c48fc0$747cdf50$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> I need to export data from this big database into Excel. The objective = is to get the FIELD NAMES out with data from about 100 records. I then = need to rotate excel such that the field names are down the left side and the = data for each record runs down vertically, the data for any given field runs across horizontally. Can anyone tell me how to rotate the spreadsheet = such that the field names are down the left side? I assume that the export MUST go out with the field names across the top row, and the data below that. =20 Can anyone tell me how to get the entire 600+ fields out in a single = export? When I try to use dts it works but complains (fails) if I try and export more than about 240 fields. It LOOKS LIKE perhaps the length of the = field names in the first row is confusing Excel. It is telling me I am = exceeding the 1000 column limit (or some such) What I really want to do is export all the columns (about 600) with the field names in the top row, then rotate the whole shootin match. Any assistance on any of this is greatly appreciated. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 31 22:24:58 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:24:58 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Determine OS and version via VBA - Solved thanks Gustav and Stuart In-Reply-To: <18220136144.20040831135725@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000d01c48fd3$426c1ef0$4a619a89@DDICK> Gustav and Stuart Many thanks to you both Both sets of code Work like a charm Many thanks to you both Have a great day Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, 31 August 2004 9:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K:Determine OS and version via VBA Hi Darren > I used to have a little code jewel from the list tucked away in my own > personal little archive that would allow me to determine the OS in > VBA- But alas since the death of the laptop my personal stash has gone > So....Anyone got any code to determine the OS and version? We use this module: Option Compare Database Option Explicit ' Major Minor ' OS Platform Version Version Build ' ' Windows 95 1 4 0 ' Windows 98 1 4 10 1998 ' Windows 98SE 1 4 10 2222 ' Windows ME 1 4 90 3000 ' NT 3.51 2 3 51 ' NT 2 4 0 1381 ' 2000 2 5 0 ' XP 2 5 1 2600 ' Server 2003 2 5 2 ' Code based on MS API documentation. ' 2004-07-02. Assembled by Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Private Const VER_PLATFORM_WIN32s As Long = 0 ' Win32s on Windows 3.1x. Private Const VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_WINDOWS As Long = 1 ' Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME. Private Const VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT As Long = 2 ' Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Server 2003. Private Const clngCSDVersion As Long = 128 Private Type OSVERSIONINFO dwOSVersionInfoSize As Long dwMajorVersion As Long dwMinorVersion As Long dwBuildNumber As Long dwPlatformId As Long szCSDVersion As String * clngCSDVersion End Type Private Declare Function GetVersionEx Lib "kernel32" Alias "GetVersionExA" ( _ ByRef lpVersionInformation As OSVERSIONINFO) _ As Long Public Function GetVersion() As String ' Retrieves version of current Windows OS. ' Returns version as full string. ' ' 2004-07-02. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim OSV As OSVERSIONINFO Dim strVersion As String OSV.dwOSVersionInfoSize = Len(OSV) OSV.szCSDVersion = Space$(clngCSDVersion) GetVersionEx OSV With OSV ' Service Pack info string. Debug.Print .szCSDVersion Select Case .dwPlatformId Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32s ' Win32s on Windows 3.1x. strVersion = "Windows 3.1" Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_WINDOWS ' Windows 95, Windows 98, Select Case .dwMinorVersion ' Windows ME. Case 0 strVersion = "Windows 95" Case 10 If (.dwBuildNumber And &HFFFF&) = 2222 Then strVersion = "Windows 98SE" Else strVersion = "Windows 98" End If Case 90 strVersion = "Windows ME" End Select Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT ' Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Select Case .dwMajorVersion ' Windows Server 2003. Case 3 strVersion = "Windows NT 3.51" Case 4 strVersion = "Windows NT 4.0" Case 5 Select Case .dwMinorVersion Case 0 strVersion = "Windows 2000" Case 1 strVersion = "Windows XP" Case 2 strVersion = "Windows Server 2003" End Select End Select Case Else strVersion = "Unknown" End Select End With GetVersion = strVersion End Function Public Function IsWinXP() As Boolean ' Checks current Windows OS. ' Returns True if OS is Win XP or Server 2003. ' ' 2004-07-07. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim OSV As OSVERSIONINFO Dim booVersion As Boolean OSV.dwOSVersionInfoSize = Len(OSV) GetVersionEx OSV With OSV Select Case .dwPlatformId Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT ' Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Select Case .dwMajorVersion ' Windows Server 2003. Case 5 Select Case .dwMinorVersion Case 0 ' strVersion = "Windows 2000" Case 1 ' strVersion = "Windows XP" booVersion = True Case 2 ' strVersion = "Windows Server 2003" booVersion = True End Select End Select End Select End With IsWinXP = booVersion End Function Have fun! /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 31 22:47:42 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:47:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Will an A2K MDE run unde A2003? References: <001701c48fb3$d92f7320$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <00f801c48fd6$6f473f10$6601a8c0@HAL9002> For my market having Access is quite common. So it's not really an issue. I've got Wise and could, I suppose, get the Sagekey script for A2K. But that's already 2 versions behind the latest. I understand that A2003 has a pretty decent deployment facility. Yes? If this prospect wants the software and it will only run in A2003 I'll get A2003, and then I'll have a chance to test the deployment features. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco Tapia" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Will an A2K MDE run unde A2003? > I am curious as to why you don't deploy it w/ a runtime?, I mean you > don't have it as opensource to allow the customer to work w/ the app. > > On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:40:07 -0700, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access > Software wrote: > > Dear List: > > > > I have to call a guy tomorrow morning and tell him whether my software will work in Access 2003. I compile it into an MDE under Access 2000. I know that MDE will run under Access 2002. Will the MDE run in 2003? > > > > I also have Access 2002 which I could use to make an MDE. Would an MDE compiled under Access 2002 run under Access 2003? > > > > -- > -Francisco > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 17:32:19 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:32:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Prompt after Form loads Message-ID: I have a form which autoloads data to some unbound controls. I have a need to prompt the user if he wants to overwrite some fields w/ defaults. However since the "IF" is in the form_load event it prompts before the form is fully loaded, thus the user can't make an informed decision. Any idea how to do this? on timer, then disable it? -- -Francisco From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 31 23:26:57 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:26:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Prompt after Form loads References: Message-ID: <012501c48fdb$eb2ea910$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Can you use the Form_Open event? Can you load the data in the Form_Open event then ask the user what they want to do? What does 'autoload' mean in this case? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco Tapia" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 3:32 PM Subject: [AccessD] Prompt after Form loads > I have a form which autoloads data to some unbound controls. I have a > need to prompt the user if he wants to overwrite some fields w/ > defaults. However since the "IF" is in the form_load event it prompts > before the form is fully loaded, thus the user can't make an informed > decision. > > Any idea how to do this? on timer, then disable it? > -- > -Francisco > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From lawhonac at hiwaay.net Sun Aug 1 01:11:40 2004 From: lawhonac at hiwaay.net (lawhonac) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 01:11:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition Message-ID: I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Aug 1 05:04:04 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 12:04:04 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Hide Autonumber In-Reply-To: <001101c476f0$f73d6100$3664fea9@OneVoiceLaptop> References: <001101c476f0$f73d6100$3664fea9@OneVoiceLaptop> Message-ID: <1594208000.20040801120404@cactus.dk> Hi Stephen > Does someone know how to format an autonumber field so that the text > (autonumber) is not visible? 1. Rename the textbox with the Autonumber to something else than the ID field, say txtID. 2. Adjust the ControlSource of txtID to the an expression with the ID field: =[ID] 3. Set the format of txtID to Number. Now txtID is "true Null" when Autonumber is Null. /gustav From snegus at ovasia.org Sun Aug 1 09:23:53 2004 From: snegus at ovasia.org (Stephen Negus) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 22:23:53 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] Hide Autonumber References: <001101c476f0$f73d6100$3664fea9@OneVoiceLaptop> <1594208000.20040801120404@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000d01c477d3$2cdd9360$3664fea9@OneVoiceLaptop> That works. Thanks Gustav. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Hide Autonumber > Hi Stephen > > > Does someone know how to format an autonumber field so that the text > > (autonumber) is not visible? > > 1. Rename the textbox with the Autonumber to something else than the > ID field, say txtID. > > 2. Adjust the ControlSource of txtID to the an expression with the ID > field: > > =[ID] > > 3. Set the format of txtID to Number. > > Now txtID is "true Null" when Autonumber is Null. > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Aug 1 10:59:05 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:59:05 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk Message-ID: <1722473356.20040801175905@cactus.dk> Couldn't someone get this address off the list? Every time I post something to the list, I receive back two messages like this, first with a "delay" then with a "failure": --- This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, due to being unable to connect successfully to the destination mail server. meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk --- From bheid at appdevgrp.com Sun Aug 1 13:39:19 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 14:39:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3091BE0A@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB6F4@ADGSERVER> I was wondering where these were coming from. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk Couldn't someone get this address off the list? Every time I post something to the list, I receive back two messages like this, first with a "delay" then with a "failure": --- This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, due to being unable to connect successfully to the destination mail server. meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Aug 1 14:13:50 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 12:13:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk In-Reply-To: <1722473356.20040801175905@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav: I was wondering where those messages were coming from...Bryan Carbonnell would be a logical choice but he should be just starting a two week holiday. Is there another designate for system support? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 8:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk Couldn't someone get this address off the list? Every time I post something to the list, I receive back two messages like this, first with a "delay" then with a "failure": --- This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, due to being unable to connect successfully to the destination mail server. meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk --- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Aug 1 16:46:10 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 22:46:10 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c47810$f5acaa00$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I know Bryan was emailing the perp but as you say he (Bryan) will be on holiday now. I believe John Bartow and Francisco have the wheel while he's away. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jim Lawrence (AccessD) > Sent: 01 August 2004 20:14 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk > > > Hi Gustav: > > I was wondering where those messages were coming from...Bryan > Carbonnell would be a logical choice but he should be just > starting a two week holiday. Is there another designate for > system support? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 8:59 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk > > > Couldn't someone get this address off the list? > > Every time I post something to the list, I receive back two > messages like this, first with a "delay" then with a "failure": > > --- > This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. > > Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, due to > being unable to connect successfully to the destination mail server. > > meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk > > --- > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sun Aug 1 18:59:55 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 19:59:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk Message-ID: <20040801235955.LYUN1916.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> Your lucky day folks. I was helping my wife send an e-mail while on vacation and decided to check mine. The offender is now postponed. In future, could this be brought to my attention off-list. Please and thanks, -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Unfortunately common sense isn't so common! From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Aug 1 20:06:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 20:06:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB203@main2.marlow.com> Ditto.....didn't think it was list generated, but I must have gotten about 50 of these in the past 2 weeks. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 10:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk Couldn't someone get this address off the list? Every time I post something to the list, I receive back two messages like this, first with a "delay" then with a "failure": --- This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, due to being unable to connect successfully to the destination mail server. meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk --- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Sun Aug 1 20:20:48 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:20:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database Message-ID: <00f501c4782e$f1687500$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Does anyone know of any shareware utility that will count lines of code in an Access 97 database (and possibly provide other statistics)? Thanks, Barb Ryan From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Aug 1 22:15:03 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 20:15:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk In-Reply-To: <20040801235955.LYUN1916.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> Message-ID: Thank you for ruining your holiday...Your wife must be extremely understanding. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 5:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa at energyexhausts.co.uk Your lucky day folks. I was helping my wife send an e-mail while on vacation and decided to check mine. The offender is now postponed. In future, could this be brought to my attention off-list. Please and thanks, -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Unfortunately common sense isn't so common! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Sun Aug 1 22:23:17 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:23:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query through VBA Message-ID: <013b01c47840$0dd41760$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all Say I have a query called sel_qry_AllOrders. It simply shows all order details The SQL for sel_qry_AllOrders is..."SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders;" Is it possible for me to get the query object and 'read' its SQL syntax eg pseudo code Dim MyQuery as query query = "sel_qry_AllOrders" debug.print "All orders query as SQL = " & SomethingCoolHereThatGetsTheSQLComponentOfTheQuery and have the debug result say All orders query as SQL = SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; Many thanks Darren From Developer at UltraDNT.com Sun Aug 1 23:01:44 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 00:01:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query through VBA In-Reply-To: <013b01c47840$0dd41760$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <000201c47845$6fc64d80$0201a8c0@COA3> Dim q as DAO.Querydef Dim s as string Set q = currentdb.querydefs("sel_qry_AllOrders") S=q.SQL ' S now holds SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; Happy coding, Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:23 PM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query through VBA Hello all Say I have a query called sel_qry_AllOrders. It simply shows all order details The SQL for sel_qry_AllOrders is..."SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders;" Is it possible for me to get the query object and 'read' its SQL syntax eg pseudo code Dim MyQuery as query query = "sel_qry_AllOrders" debug.print "All orders query as SQL = " & SomethingCoolHereThatGetsTheSQLComponentOfTheQuery and have the debug result say All orders query as SQL = SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; Many thanks Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon Aug 2 00:26:03 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:26:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query throughVBA References: <000201c47845$6fc64d80$0201a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <028801c47851$34eabe60$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Steve This is way cool - I can see the potential already I have a new challenge - can this be done where the Me.recordsource for a form is a query, but changes between 3 or 4 queries, dependant on users selection? instead of the qrydef object? Many thanks Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 2:01 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query throughVBA > Dim q as DAO.Querydef > Dim s as string > > Set q = currentdb.querydefs("sel_qry_AllOrders") > S=q.SQL > > ' S now holds SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; > > Happy coding, > Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:23 PM > To: AccessD List > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query through > VBA > > > Hello all > Say I have a query called sel_qry_AllOrders. It simply shows all order > details The SQL for sel_qry_AllOrders is..."SELECT tblOrders.* FROM > tblOrders;" > > Is it possible for me to get the query object and 'read' its SQL syntax > eg > > pseudo code > > Dim MyQuery as query > > query = "sel_qry_AllOrders" > > debug.print "All orders query as SQL = " & > SomethingCoolHereThatGetsTheSQLComponentOfTheQuery > > and have the debug result say > > All orders query as SQL = SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; > > Many thanks > > Darren > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 2 01:59:52 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:59:52 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database In-Reply-To: <00f501c4782e$f1687500$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <001b01c4785e$4fa949d0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Barbara If you don't get any other responses I've got some code to count lines of code and store results to a table. No other stats though. I'll send it to you off-line if you want. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Barbara Ryan > Sent: 02 August 2004 02:21 > To: Access List > Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database > > > Does anyone know of any shareware utility that will count > lines of code in an Access 97 database (and possibly provide > other statistics)? > > Thanks, > Barb Ryan > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 2 02:02:36 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:02:36 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query throughVBA In-Reply-To: <028801c47851$34eabe60$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <001c01c4785e$b15cbb80$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Hiya Darren, Yep, in Steve's answer just replace Set q = currentdb.querydefs("sel_qry_AllOrders") with Set q = currentdb.querydefs(Me.RecordSource) -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: 02 August 2004 06:26 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of > a query throughVBA > > > Hi Steve > This is way cool - I can see the potential already > > I have a new challenge - can this be done where the > Me.recordsource for a form is a query, but changes between 3 > or 4 queries, dependant on users selection? instead of the > qrydef object? > > Many thanks > > Darren > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 2:01 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of > a query throughVBA > > > > Dim q as DAO.Querydef > > Dim s as string > > > > Set q = currentdb.querydefs("sel_qry_AllOrders") > > S=q.SQL > > > > ' S now holds SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; > > > > Happy coding, > > Steve > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Darren DICK > > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:23 PM > > To: AccessD List > > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query > > through VBA > > > > > > Hello all > > Say I have a query called sel_qry_AllOrders. It simply > shows all order > > details The SQL for sel_qry_AllOrders is..."SELECT tblOrders.* FROM > > tblOrders;" > > > > Is it possible for me to get the query object and 'read' its SQL > > syntax eg > > > > pseudo code > > > > Dim MyQuery as query > > > > query = "sel_qry_AllOrders" > > > > debug.print "All orders query as SQL = " & > > SomethingCoolHereThatGetsTheSQLComponentOfTheQuery > > > > and have the debug result say > > > > All orders query as SQL = SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; > > > > Many thanks > > > > Darren > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon Aug 2 02:14:03 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:14:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query throughVBA References: <001c01c4785e$b15cbb80$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <02c301c47860$4a52cb30$48619a89@DDICK> Hey Andy SYWYEmigrate :-)) Thanks for the reply I actually did that many thanks Have a great day Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query throughVBA > Hiya Darren, > > Yep, in Steve's answer just replace > > Set q = currentdb.querydefs("sel_qry_AllOrders") > > with > > Set q = currentdb.querydefs(Me.RecordSource) > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > > Sent: 02 August 2004 06:26 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of > > a query throughVBA > > > > > > Hi Steve > > This is way cool - I can see the potential already > > > > I have a new challenge - can this be done where the > > Me.recordsource for a form is a query, but changes between 3 > > or 4 queries, dependant on users selection? instead of the > > qrydef object? > > > > Many thanks > > > > Darren > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 2:01 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of > > a query throughVBA > > > > > > > Dim q as DAO.Querydef > > > Dim s as string > > > > > > Set q = currentdb.querydefs("sel_qry_AllOrders") > > > S=q.SQL > > > > > > ' S now holds SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; > > > > > > Happy coding, > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Darren DICK > > > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:23 PM > > > To: AccessD List > > > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Is is possible to get the SQL of a query > > > through VBA > > > > > > > > > Hello all > > > Say I have a query called sel_qry_AllOrders. It simply > > shows all order > > > details The SQL for sel_qry_AllOrders is..."SELECT tblOrders.* FROM > > > tblOrders;" > > > > > > Is it possible for me to get the query object and 'read' its SQL > > > syntax eg > > > > > > pseudo code > > > > > > Dim MyQuery as query > > > > > > query = "sel_qry_AllOrders" > > > > > > debug.print "All orders query as SQL = " & > > > SomethingCoolHereThatGetsTheSQLComponentOfTheQuery > > > > > > and have the debug result say > > > > > > All orders query as SQL = SELECT tblOrders.* FROM tblOrders; > > > > > > Many thanks > > > > > > Darren > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 2 02:33:35 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:33:35 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database In-Reply-To: <00f501c4782e$f1687500$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> References: <00f501c4782e$f1687500$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <1591714655.20040802093335@cactus.dk> Hi Barbara > Does anyone know of any shareware utility that will count lines of > code in an Access 97 database (and possibly provide other > statistics)? No, but this freeware util from FMS will do: http://www.fmsinc.com/free/utilities/fmspower.htm It includes a "Database Complexity Meter" which returns statistics on your database including the number of modules and code lines. /gustav From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Mon Aug 2 02:51:28 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:51:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so you can work on the database? I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually always around when the databases are being used. I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await keenly for an answer. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Try this: Public Function HideDBWindow() On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err ' select a tab in the Database Window DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True ' Hide the database window DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide HideDBWindow_exit: Exit Function HideDBWindow_err: MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" Resume HideDBWindow_exit End Function Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but that's not the point here). I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. Thanks! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 2 02:37:20 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:37:20 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk In-Reply-To: <20040801235955.LYUN1916.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> References: <20040801235955.LYUN1916.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> Message-ID: <801939528.20040802093720@cactus.dk> Hi Bryan > The offender is now postponed. Thanks. > In future, could this be brought to my attention off-list. Sorry, but I had forgotten you were in charge of this. /gustav From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon Aug 2 05:12:04 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:12:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window References: Message-ID: <002801c47879$2a44e2b0$3f669a89@DDICK> Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually always > around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only the > required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await keenly > for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do this > through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup menu? > I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Mon Aug 2 06:33:52 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:33:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database References: <00f501c4782e$f1687500$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> <1591714655.20040802093335@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000c01c47884$96924100$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Thanks, Gustav. I downloaded the add-in ---- it looks pretty neat. However, I've tried running it 3 times on a large Access 97 app and receive a fatal error about the time that it's counting queries. I was able to successfully run it against a smaller app though. I would like to try to get this to work! Andy, would you mind sending me your cose to count lines? Thanks, Barb Ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 3:33 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database > Hi Barbara > > > Does anyone know of any shareware utility that will count lines of > > code in an Access 97 database (and possibly provide other > > statistics)? > > No, but this freeware util from FMS will do: > > http://www.fmsinc.com/free/utilities/fmspower.htm > > It includes a "Database Complexity Meter" which returns statistics on > your database including the number of modules and code lines. > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 2 06:35:13 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:35:13 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database In-Reply-To: <000c01c47884$96924100$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> References: <00f501c4782e$f1687500$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> <1591714655.20040802093335@cactus.dk> <000c01c47884$96924100$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <12516213153.20040802133513@cactus.dk> Hi Barbara You could report that to FMS - or export your forms, reports and modules to a new db and run the util from there. /gustav > Thanks, Gustav. I downloaded the add-in ---- it looks pretty neat. > However, I've tried running it 3 times on a large Access 97 app and receive > a fatal error about the time that it's counting queries. I was able to > successfully run it against a smaller app though. > I would like to try to get this to work! From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Mon Aug 2 06:53:01 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:53:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database References: <00f501c4782e$f1687500$0a00a8c0@cx470148a><1591714655.20040802093335@cactus.dk><000c01c47884$96924100$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> <12516213153.20040802133513@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001501c47887$436c36e0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> I got it to work! --- I compacted the .mdb first. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database > Hi Barbara > > You could report that to FMS - or export your forms, reports and > modules to a new db and run the util from there. > > /gustav > > > > Thanks, Gustav. I downloaded the add-in ---- it looks pretty neat. > > However, I've tried running it 3 times on a large Access 97 app and receive > > a fatal error about the time that it's counting queries. I was able to > > successfully run it against a smaller app though. > > > I would like to try to get this to work! > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon Aug 2 06:45:26 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:45:26 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Hide Queries via VBA Message-ID: <000701c47886$349ece30$3f669a89@DDICK> Hello all The following code hides all the tables in a dB- cool and it works well But there seems to be no "dot attributes" (.Attributes =) setting for Queries from the QueryDefs object I basically wanna run some enumerating code like below and hide queries, forms etc Any ideas? Many thanks Darren Function f_HideAllTables () Dim db As DAO.Database Dim tbl As TableDef Set db = CurrentDb() For Each tbl In db.TableDefs tbl.Attributes = 2 Next Application.RefreshDatabaseWindow end function From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Mon Aug 2 06:51:55 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 06:51:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003, Runtime, and Built-in Security Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630509326@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> I have an Access 2003 FE, using the Access 2003 runtime. Every time someone opens the app. I get one of those security warnings on the user's machine. I am pretty sure that this is this a Digital Certificate issue. Do I need to go to each desktop to create a cert, or can I distribute the one I created for the test/development machine? And how do I distribute it? Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI www.outbaktech.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 2 07:19:27 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:19:27 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003, Runtime, and Built-in Security In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630509326@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> References: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630509326@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <11418867359.20040802141927@cactus.dk> Hi Jeff You could have a look at Helen's article (part one only, part two I haven't seen yet) http://www.helenfeddema.com/access.htm on this topic: accarch119.zip /gustav > I have an Access 2003 FE, using the Access 2003 runtime. Every time > someone opens the app. I get one of those security warnings on the > user's machine. I am pretty sure that this is this a Digital > Certificate issue. Do I need to go to each desktop to create a cert, or > can I distribute the one I created for the test/development machine? > And how do I distribute it? > Jeff Barrows > Outbak Technologies, LLC > Racine, WI > www.outbaktech.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 2 07:31:51 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:31:51 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database Message-ID: <20040802123148.E6679250485@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Barbara I See you got the info from FMS. I won't bother sending mine unless you really want me to. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database Date: 02/08/04 11:26 > > Thanks, Gustav. I downloaded the add-in ---- it looks pretty neat. > However, I've tried running it 3 times on a large Access 97 app and receive > a fatal error about the time that it's counting queries. I was able to > successfully run it against a smaller app though. > > I would like to try to get this to work! > > Andy, would you mind sending me your cose to count lines? > > Thanks, > Barb Ryan > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk> > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 3:33 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database > > > > Hi Barbara > > > > > Does anyone know of any shareware utility that will count lines of > > > code in an Access 97 database (and possibly provide other > > > statistics)? > > > > No, but this freeware util from FMS will do: > > > > http://www.fmsinc.com/free/utilities/fmspower.htm > > > > It includes a "Database Complexity Meter" which returns statistics on > > your database including the number of modules and code lines. > > > > /gustav > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Mon Aug 2 07:43:49 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:43:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database References: <20040802123148.E6679250485@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <005001c4788e$5c216c80$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Yes .....the FMS worked so I won't need your code.....but thanks anyway!.................Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database > Barbara > I See you got the info from FMS. I won't bother sending mine unless you > really want me to. > -- > Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > --------- Original Message -------- > From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database > Date: 02/08/04 11:26 > > > > > Thanks, Gustav. I downloaded the add-in ---- it looks pretty neat. > > However, I've tried running it 3 times on a large Access 97 app and > receive > > a fatal error about the time that it's counting queries. I was able to > > successfully run it against a smaller app though. > > > > I would like to try to get this to work! > > > > Andy, would you mind sending me your cose to count lines? > > > > Thanks, > > Barb Ryan > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk> > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 3:33 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Count Lines of Code in an Access 97 database > > > > > > > Hi Barbara > > > > > > > Does anyone know of any shareware utility that will count lines > of > > > > code in an Access 97 database (and possibly provide other > > > > statistics)? > > > > > > No, but this freeware util from FMS will do: > > > > > > http://www.fmsinc.com/free/utilities/fmspower.htm > > > > > > It includes a "Database Complexity Meter" which returns > statistics on > > > your database including the number of modules and code lines. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________ > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From actebs at actebs.com.au Mon Aug 2 07:49:50 2004 From: actebs at actebs.com.au (ACTEBS) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:49:50 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Anyone have a SpeedStream 5260 DSL modem? Message-ID: <2025BB6F17FCB54791F23CD505583328041B91@starfleet.unknown.local> Drew, I think you'll find there are more elegant solutions to this. I would recommend you leave the modem as just that a fully bridged modem that hooks up to smoothwall, a linux based firewall with a wonderful browser based administering tool. You can check it out at www.smoothwall.org All you need is an old PC 486 or better with 64Meg of RAM 2 x network cards and you're away. So simple to set up and so much more secure than those inbuilt firewalls the modems come with. I've been using it for the past 6 months and have been blown away by it's flexibility and robustness...Best of all it's free - can't do better than that! HTH Vlad www.actebs.com.au -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Saturday, 31 July 2004 8:05 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Anyone have a SpeedStream 5260 DSL modem? Just curious. Had to jump through some hoops with my DSL provider, and in the end, I ended up with a new DSL account, which still has static IP's, but uses PPPoE. A complete pain. Didn't want to install EnterNet 300, so I bit the bullet, and tried the hack to upgrade my DSL modem into a full blown DSL Modem/Router (firewall, PPPoE, DNS, etc.). Had to do some web research to pull it off, but if anyone on the list has a SpeedStream 5260 (which has an actual model number that says 5660), let me know, I can give you exact steps (and the firmware upgrades you'll need) to pull off the upgrade. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 2 08:11:41 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:11:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] W2K Setup & Admin Principles Message-ID: <20040802131138.C3D54250D38@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Hi all I've asked a question on the Tech list about setting up W2K workstations, esp about installing software so that it can be used by multiple users. If anyone thinks they may be able to help I'd really appreciate it if they'd post to the thread, and join dba-Tech to do so if they haven't already (http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech). Many thanks. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 2 07:57:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:57:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] JPEG Progress Dialog (was: The Annoying Flash - Redux) In-Reply-To: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk> References: <716369388.20040516182759@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <12521132256.20040802145712@cactus.dk> Hi all I had to deal with this last week, and it seems to be a Windows XP thing: If run under Windows XP, the relevant section is HKEY_CURRENT_USER while under earlier Windows versions it is HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE. /gustav > Hi Rocky et all > (resume: The Annoying Flash is the Windows progress bar which pops in > front when you assign a JPEG file to a picture control in Access; when > the picture is small, you won't see any "bar" but only a flash of > "something", thus no bar at all is preferable). > Recently, I noticed this as well but under some different conditions: > A97 on WinXP where A2000 and Access XP are installed as well. > It seems that the key to change is not (at least in some cases) the > one found under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE (as the code below assumes) but the > equivalent key under HKEY_CURRENT_USER. > Perhaps the only safe way for your app is to change both keys. It > shouldn't do any harm. However, I've adjusted my code to change it > when needed and then set it back when the user closes the form where > pictures are selected. This is not foolproof, I know, but it has > caused no problems yet. > /gustav >> Hi Rocky, >> I have used the registry setting in code in an ADP (A2K) I am currently >> working on and it worked fine. There was no initial change, however the >> progress box now does not appear. I assume it was either due to a system >> restart or the compacting of the app... I'm not sure. But it does work. >> Regards, >> Matt Pickering >> LUPO DATA CONCEPTS LTD >> http://www.lupo.net.nz >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >> Beach Access Software >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:44 PM >> To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> Cc: Gordon Bennett >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash - Redux >> Gustav et al: >> Here's a mystery. That code which suppresses the annoying flash works in an >> A97 mdb but not in an A2K mdb. Even if you don't use the code but manually >> change the key to No, the progress bar flash still shows when setting the >> picture property in the image box to a jpg file. Convert the A2K mdb to A97 >> and the progress bar goes away. So it's not in the code which changes the >> registry key. There's something about A2K which apparently is showing the >> progress bar despite the reg key setting. >> Any ideas on what's going on here? >> TIA and regards, >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >> Beach Access Software >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:52 PM >> To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash >> Gustav: >> That worked perfectly. Thank you. Solves a small but annoying problem which >> will definitely improve the quality of my products. >> Best regards, >> Rocky >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:AccessD-owner at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:28 PM >> To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Annoying Flash >> Hi Rocky (and Seth) >> Did some digging and found a short API routine from April last year by >> Albert van Bergen (left the list I believe). I brushed it a bit. >> Copy and paste this into a new module for testing (beware of line >> breaks): >> >> Option Compare Database >> Option Explicit >> Public Const HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE = &H80000002 >> Public Const REG_SZ = 1 >> Public Declare Function RegCloseKey Lib "advapi32.dll" ( _ >> ByVal hKey As Long) As Long >> Public Declare Function RegCreateKey Lib "advapi32.dll" _ >> Alias "RegCreateKeyA" ( _ >> ByVal hKey As Long, _ >> ByVal lpSubKey As String, _ >> ByRef phkResult As Long) As Long >> Public Declare Function RegSetValueEx Lib "advapi32.dll" _ >> Alias "RegSetValueExA" ( _ >> ByVal hKey As Long, _ >> ByVal lpValueName As String, _ >> ByVal Reserved As Long, _ >> ByVal dwType As Long, _ >> ByRef lpData As Any, _ >> ByVal cbData As Long) As Long >> Public Sub WriteRegistry( _ >> hKey As Long, _ >> PathVar As String, _ >> ValueVar As String, _ >> DataVar As String) >> Dim hCurKey As Long >> Dim Result As Long >> Result = RegCreateKey(hKey, PathVar, hCurKey) >> Result = RegSetValueEx(hCurKey, ValueVar, 0, REG_SZ, ByVal DataVar, >> Len(DataVar)) >> Result = RegCloseKey(hCurKey) >> End Sub >> Public Sub ShowJpegProgressDialog(ByVal booShow As Boolean) >> Dim PathVar As String >> Dim ValueVar As String >> Dim DataVar As String >> PathVar = "Software\Microsoft\Shared Tools\Graphics >> Filters\Import\JPEG\Options" >> ValueVar = "ShowProgressDialog" >> DataVar = IIf(booShow = True, "Yes", "No") >> Call WriteRegistry(HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, PathVar, ValueVar, DataVar) >> End Sub >> From GregSmith at starband.net Mon Aug 2 09:11:12 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:11:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar Customize Function In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1333.216.43.21.235.1091455872.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hello everyone! This is a 'refined' repeat of a question I asked on Friday and I "thought" I responded to another question about it last night...but my repsonse is not here...so I'm going to try again. Access97, by the way. I want to be able to have the "customize" function that appears when you RMC (right mouse click) .... NOT appear. I know you can do this through Access's tools (unclick the checkbox), but I need to be able to enable/disable it through the code. As long as that function exists for any users, they can 'create' their own toolbar or menubar and do whatever they want. You can disable the RMC menus for a FORM, but that does not affect the RMC on the toolbars. Tried that. Of course, if there were a way to disable the RMC for the MENU's through the code...that would work. However, I've not been able to discover how to do that. As always, TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net From michael.broesdorf at web.de Mon Aug 2 09:46:03 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:46:03 +0200 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar Customize Function In-Reply-To: <1333.216.43.21.235.1091455872.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: Greg, try this: CurrentDb.Properties("AllowToolbarChanges")=true/False And maybe these are of interest, too: CurrentDb.Properties("AllowFullMenus") CurrentDb.Properties("AllowShortcutMenus") CurrentDb.Properties("AllowSpecialKeys") CurrentDb.Properties("AllowBuiltinToolbars") AFAIK, you'll have to restart the application for changes to take effect though... HTH, Michael -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Greg Smith Gesendet: Montag, 2. August 2004 16:11 An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Betreff: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar Customize Function Hello everyone! This is a 'refined' repeat of a question I asked on Friday and I "thought" I responded to another question about it last night...but my repsonse is not here...so I'm going to try again. Access97, by the way. I want to be able to have the "customize" function that appears when you RMC (right mouse click) .... NOT appear. I know you can do this through Access's tools (unclick the checkbox), but I need to be able to enable/disable it through the code. As long as that function exists for any users, they can 'create' their own toolbar or menubar and do whatever they want. You can disable the RMC menus for a FORM, but that does not affect the RMC on the toolbars. Tried that. Of course, if there were a way to disable the RMC for the MENU's through the code...that would work. However, I've not been able to discover how to do that. As always, TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 2 10:27:03 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:27:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition Message-ID: What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From GregSmith at starband.net Mon Aug 2 10:48:20 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:48:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: AW: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar Customize Function In-Reply-To: References: <1333.216.43.21.235.1091455872.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: <1457.216.43.21.235.1091461700.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Michael: All of those DO work...(I'd forgotten about the "AllowToolbarChanges" property...). And they do require a restart of the app to take effect. Which makes it a little awkward (for the programmer...who'll have to login to the app twice to get everything back to 'programming normal'...), but the normal users won't know any different since it'll be in their mode of not allowing any changes when they login. The programmer will have to make sure of that, of course. If this is the only option (having to restart the app) available, then I'll have to live with that. Thanks again Michael. I appreciate your help! Greg gregsmith at starband.net > Greg, > > try this: > > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowToolbarChanges")=true/False > > And maybe these are of interest, too: > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowFullMenus") > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowShortcutMenus") > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowSpecialKeys") > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowBuiltinToolbars") > > AFAIK, you'll have to restart the application for changes to take effect > though... > > HTH, > > Michael > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Greg Smith > Gesendet: Montag, 2. August 2004 16:11 > An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Betreff: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar Customize > Function > > > Hello everyone! > > This is a 'refined' repeat of a question I asked on Friday and I > "thought" I responded to another question about it last night...but my > repsonse is not here...so I'm going to try again. Access97, by the way. > > I want to be able to have the "customize" function that appears when you > RMC (right mouse click) .... NOT appear. I know you can do this through > Access's tools (unclick the checkbox), but I need to be able to > enable/disable it through the code. As long as that function exists for > any users, they can 'create' their own toolbar or menubar and do > whatever they want. > > You can disable the RMC menus for a FORM, but that does not affect the > RMC on the toolbars. Tried that. > > Of course, if there were a way to disable the RMC for the MENU's through > the code...that would work. However, I've not been able to discover how > to do that. > > As always, TIA! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > From michael.broesdorf at web.de Mon Aug 2 11:16:14 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:16:14 +0200 Subject: AW: AW: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar CustomizeFunction In-Reply-To: <1457.216.43.21.235.1091461700.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: Greg, if you find a way to make it happen without a restart I'd be interested as well! A workaround would be to create an application launcher that takes care of it from the outside... Michael -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Greg Smith Gesendet: Montag, 2. August 2004 17:48 An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Betreff: Re: AW: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar CustomizeFunction Michael: All of those DO work...(I'd forgotten about the "AllowToolbarChanges" property...). And they do require a restart of the app to take effect. Which makes it a little awkward (for the programmer...who'll have to login to the app twice to get everything back to 'programming normal'...), but the normal users won't know any different since it'll be in their mode of not allowing any changes when they login. The programmer will have to make sure of that, of course. If this is the only option (having to restart the app) available, then I'll have to live with that. Thanks again Michael. I appreciate your help! Greg gregsmith at starband.net > Greg, > > try this: > > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowToolbarChanges")=true/False > > And maybe these are of interest, too: > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowFullMenus") > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowShortcutMenus") > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowSpecialKeys") > CurrentDb.Properties("AllowBuiltinToolbars") > > AFAIK, you'll have to restart the application for changes to take effect > though... > > HTH, > > Michael > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Greg Smith > Gesendet: Montag, 2. August 2004 16:11 > An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Betreff: [AccessD] Programmatically Disable or Hide MenuBar Customize > Function > > > Hello everyone! > > This is a 'refined' repeat of a question I asked on Friday and I > "thought" I responded to another question about it last night...but my > repsonse is not here...so I'm going to try again. Access97, by the way. > > I want to be able to have the "customize" function that appears when you > RMC (right mouse click) .... NOT appear. I know you can do this through > Access's tools (unclick the checkbox), but I need to be able to > enable/disable it through the code. As long as that function exists for > any users, they can 'create' their own toolbar or menubar and do > whatever they want. > > You can disable the RMC menus for a FORM, but that does not affect the > RMC on the toolbars. Tried that. > > Of course, if there were a way to disable the RMC for the MENU's through > the code...that would work. However, I've not been able to discover how > to do that. > > As always, TIA! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From alan.lawhon at us.army.mil Mon Aug 2 11:37:33 2004 From: alan.lawhon at us.army.mil (Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:37:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition Message-ID: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E1744906C@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Charlotte: It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include Access.) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 2 13:26:57 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:26:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition Message-ID: But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which version of Office you were talking about. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition Charlotte: It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include Access.) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 2 13:42:47 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:42:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003, Runtime, and Built-in Security References: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630509326@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <410E8B27.8090807@shaw.ca> Assuming you are not going to spring $ 400 for a version Veritas 2 year certificate. and 'Class 2' certificates for individual developers, are unobtainable, as no CA Certificate Authority currently sells them. I never got as far as network deployment. Selfcert won't work you need makecert I got it working standalone with this makecert call Since I have a standalone version of Access2003, I had to download makecert from here, standalone version of 2003 doesn't have makecert installed. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;828407 I created certificates with these parameters in Start-->Run C:\Security\Makecert\codesigningx86\makecert -sk SelfSignedCerts -n "CN=MyCert" -b 01/01/2003 -e 01/01/2009 -ss My -r -eku 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.3 or : Use makecert.exe with the "-pe" option to create and store the certificate with an exportable private key: This maybe necessary for network deployment but "pe" only available with makecert.exe version 5.131 or higher. makecert -r -pe -n "CN=Your Name" -b 01/01/2000 -e 01/01/2099 -eku 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.3 -ss My Then you can export the certificate from the certificate store, including the private key. after install of certificate; see it listed on the Trusted Root Certification Authorities tab in Certificates window (CntrlPanel-- > Users --> Advanced). Forgotten how to attach to mdb but it should be here in the url below To set the security level. It's under tools --> macro --> security Here is description of how to sign vba project with certificate http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/odeopg/html/deovrsigningvbaproject.asp and http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/security/security/makecert.asp Two caveats You need Jet 8 SP installed to stop squawking messages about unsafe SQL expressions. Setting security to Low and then running the macro does not register the certificate in the trusted sources list. Security must be set to Medium or High before any certificates are posted to the trusted Trust Publishers list. In cases where security is set to High on all computers, a Selfcert.exe-signed macro can be deployed, but it does not have a secure enough certificate level for use by other users who are running with the High security level. Only a certificate issued by a certificate authority can be used to provide a distributable certificate and signature to others and still pass through Medium and High security levels in Office. Theoretically, you could tell your clients to use selfcert to create a certificate on each workstation, but even if they were willing to do this, your db security may prevent them from opening the VBA project to add digital certificate. If you are developing in-house applications, talk to your network administrator. Using Certificate Server on Windows 2000/2003 Server, an administrator can create a certificate that will be valid across the domain. Also to see if personal certificate is installed properly run certmgr.exe This is supposed to work but I never got this far. Since I couldn't find out how to network deploy a makecert certificate. This assumes Jet SP8 installed 2. Before you create the MDE file, go to modules open one and in VB assign a digital certificte to it. 3. Make the MDE 4. Open the app on users pc, when it asks if you want to Block unsafe expressions answer yes. 5. The next window should tell you that there is a Digital Certificate. Click on Advanced and install the Certificate. 6. Open the database 7. Close the database and reopen it. You should now have the option of checking the box to always trust apps with this digital certificate. Check that and open the database. 8. Close the database and reopen it. It should open without any prompts, at least mine do now. -------------------------------------------------------------- A couple of other ways around this. Get your network guy to change the following registry settings of the following key, should help you change the security level of the macro in Access 2003. He should be able to change this globally across the network for each client PC, there is even a way to do this from Access VBA code using WMI with proper network permissions. HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\11.0\Access\Security\Level If the value is 1, then the macro security of Access 2003 is set to low. If the value is 2, then the macro security of Access 2003 is set to medium. If the value is 3, then the macro security of Access 2003 is set to high. WARNING: If you use Registry Editor incorrectly, you may cause serious problems that may require you to reinstall your operating system. Microsoft cannot guarantee that you can solve problems that result from using Registry Editor incorrectly. Use Registry Editor at your own risk. Or You could also put this vbs code in a file to execute in a user's shortcut. Just create .vbs file and add to desktop shortcut. You can create a VB script file with this code and start your app using this. (Code is from an MS MSDN article) http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=235422 This will have problems if vbscript disabled or you are using mdw security add to file MyMDB.vbs Const cDatabaseToOpen = "C:\.mdb" On Error Resume Next Dim AcApp Set AcApp = CreateObject("Access.Application.11") If AcApp.Version >= 11 Then AcApp.AutomationSecurity = 1 ' msoAutomationSecurityLow End If AcApp.Visible = True AcApp.OpenCurrentDatabase cDatabaseToOpen If AcApp.CurrentProject.FullName <> "" Then AcApp.UserControl = True Else AcApp.Quit MsgBox "Failed to open '" & cDatabaseToOpen & "'." End If Jeff Barrows wrote: >I have an Access 2003 FE, using the Access 2003 runtime. Every time >someone opens the app. I get one of those security warnings on the >user's machine. I am pretty sure that this is this a Digital >Certificate issue. Do I need to go to each desktop to create a cert, or >can I distribute the one I created for the test/development machine? >And how do I distribute it? > > > >Jeff Barrows > >Outbak Technologies, LLC > >Racine, WI > > > >www.outbaktech.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Mon Aug 2 14:50:05 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:50:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003, Runtime, and Built-in Security - SOLVED Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305003269A@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Thanks to all for the ideas, suggestions, and links. Marty had exactly what I needed, a registry setting needed to be changed / created. Worked like a charm! Using the Access Runtime, I had no way to set the local Security Level. -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Mon 8/2/2004 1:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003, Runtime, and Built-in Security A couple of other ways around this. Get your network guy to change the following registry settings of the following key, should help you change the security level of the macro in Access 2003. He should be able to change this globally across the network for each client PC, there is even a way to do this from Access VBA code using WMI with proper network permissions. HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\11.0\Access\Security\Level If the value is 1, then the macro security of Access 2003 is set to low. If the value is 2, then the macro security of Access 2003 is set to medium. If the value is 3, then the macro security of Access 2003 is set to high. WARNING: If you use Registry Editor incorrectly, you may cause serious problems that may require you to reinstall your operating system. Microsoft cannot guarantee that you can solve problems that result from using Registry Editor incorrectly. Use Registry Editor at your own risk. Or You could also put this vbs code in a file to execute in a user's shortcut. Just create .vbs file and add to desktop shortcut. You can create a VB script file with this code and start your app using this. (Code is from an MS MSDN article) http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=235422 This will have problems if vbscript disabled or you are using mdw security add to file MyMDB.vbs Const cDatabaseToOpen = "C:\.mdb" On Error Resume Next Dim AcApp Set AcApp = CreateObject("Access.Application.11") If AcApp.Version >= 11 Then AcApp.AutomationSecurity = 1 ' msoAutomationSecurityLow End If AcApp.Visible = True AcApp.OpenCurrentDatabase cDatabaseToOpen If AcApp.CurrentProject.FullName <> "" Then AcApp.UserControl = True Else AcApp.Quit MsgBox "Failed to open '" & cDatabaseToOpen & "'." End If From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon Aug 2 20:34:05 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:34:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question Message-ID: <009d01c478f9$f71031c0$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all Time for charts My Q has 2 parts I have a table that records the dates of occurences - so far so good. The table name is tblOffences, the Field is called OffenceDate (very original - I know:-)) Date /Time data format Date Format = dd/mm/yyyy PART1 What I need is for the crosstab that is going to display my chart to break down all the occurence dates into 'day' groups. IE show all the offences throughout the year that fall on a monday into the monday group, tuesday occurences into the tuesday group etc. I want that bit to be my row heading. The column heading is to be Periods 1 through to 6.This is also captured with the Offence date. EG Each record captures Offence date - 1/1/2004, Period1 PART2 Then I need a sum of 'em. EG over the whole year 100 occurences on Mondays, 200 on Tuesdays 120 on Wednesdays etc. Of course I have dates that span the whole year, I just want to know what the syntax or procedure is for putting a years worth of data into 1 of 7 groups (ie each dayo the week) Any suggestions? Many thanks in advance Darren From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Aug 3 00:38:51 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 15:38:51 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question In-Reply-To: <009d01c478f9$f71031c0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <410FB18B.11226.15AB6EF1@lexacorp.com.pg> On 3 Aug 2004 at 11:34, Darren DICK wrote: > Hello all > Time for charts > My Q has 2 parts > > I have a table that records the dates of occurences - so far so good. The table name is tblOffences, the Field is called OffenceDate > (very original - I know:-)) Date /Time data format Date Format = dd/mm/yyyy > PART1 > What I need is for the crosstab that is going to display my chart to break down all the > occurence dates into 'day' groups. IE show all the offences throughout the year that fall on a monday into the monday group, tuesday > occurences into the tuesday group etc. > I want that bit to be my row heading. The column heading is to be Periods 1 through to 6.This > is also captured with the Offence date. > EG Each record captures Offence date - 1/1/2004, Period1 > > PART2 > Then I need a sum of 'em. EG over the whole year 100 occurences on Mondays, 200 on Tuesdays > 120 on Wednesdays etc. > > Of course I have dates that span the whole year, I just want to know what the syntax or procedure > is for putting a years worth of data into 1 of 7 groups (ie each dayo the week) > Select Distinct(Weekdayname(Weekday(OffenceDate)), count(OffenceID) from tblOffences Group By Weekdayname(Weekday(OffenceDate)) Order By Weekday(OffenceDate) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 3 00:58:35 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:58:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question References: <410FB18B.11226.15AB6EF1@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001f01c4791e$ea616e10$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Stuart Many thanks for the reply - times zones and all :-)) It is failing on the WeekDayName portion of the SQL. Is that a function you have that I don't? I managed to get the following working - promising, but not there yet SELECT DISTINCT Weekday(OffenceDate) AS Expr1 FROM tblOffences Group By Weekday(OffenceDate) Order By Weekday(OffenceDate) Many many thanks again Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question > On 3 Aug 2004 at 11:34, Darren DICK wrote: > > > Hello all > > Time for charts > > My Q has 2 parts > > > > I have a table that records the dates of occurences - so far so good. The table name is tblOffences, the Field is called OffenceDate > > (very original - I know:-)) Date /Time data format Date Format = dd/mm/yyyy > > PART1 > > What I need is for the crosstab that is going to display my chart to break down all the > > occurence dates into 'day' groups. IE show all the offences throughout the year that fall on a monday into the monday group, tuesday > > occurences into the tuesday group etc. > > I want that bit to be my row heading. The column heading is to be Periods 1 through to 6.This > > is also captured with the Offence date. > > EG Each record captures Offence date - 1/1/2004, Period1 > > > > PART2 > > Then I need a sum of 'em. EG over the whole year 100 occurences on Mondays, 200 on Tuesdays > > 120 on Wednesdays etc. > > > > Of course I have dates that span the whole year, I just want to know what the syntax or procedure > > is for putting a years worth of data into 1 of 7 groups (ie each dayo the week) > > > > Select Distinct(Weekdayname(Weekday(OffenceDate)), count(OffenceID) > from tblOffences > Group By Weekdayname(Weekday(OffenceDate)) > Order By Weekday(OffenceDate) > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 3 02:36:55 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:36:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Brilliant, Darren (and to my shame not so unobvious). Many thanks for that. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually always > around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only the > required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await keenly > for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do this > through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup menu? > I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 3 02:56:07 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:56:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually always > around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only the > required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await keenly > for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do this > through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup menu? > I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Aug 3 04:36:17 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:36:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] OT- Files To Psion Handhelds Message-ID: <12730068.1091525777061.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> To all, I have been given the excellent task of taking over someone?s project (as they have left the company). I basically have to import a .csv file in Access the from that data, create the following 3 files for our psion handhelds (NEVER done this before, so need all the patience and help one can get). Apparently I write out to three files as Binary access .DAT, .IDX, .ID1. The .DAT file contains every record with the following detail. PackedBarCode, strItemCode, strDesc, strSPK PackedBarCode = 14 digit barcode compressed to 7 bytes. strItemCode = Uncompressed 8 character code. strDesc = Uncompressed 40 character description. strSPK = Uncompressed 7 character packsize. The .IDX file contains every 128th record with the following detail. PackedBarCode, Offset PackedBarCode = 14 digit barcode compressed to 7 bytes. Offset = Position of the PackedBarCode in the .DAT file (4 bytes) The .ID1 file contains every record with the following detail. strItemCode = 8 character uncompressed ItemCode Offset = position of the ItemCode in the .DAT file (4 bytes) Has anyone ever worked with psions, and know a fool proof way of doing this, I have a meeting in Doncaster on Thursday with the client and would really like this section to be working. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From Tim.Pain at sc.akzonobel.com Tue Aug 3 04:41:26 2004 From: Tim.Pain at sc.akzonobel.com (Pain, T. (Tim)) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:41:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] QBF conversion Message-ID: <06C47F476BB98749805A687202F1A2445AF4C4@hhmn41.d20.intra> I downloaded a copy of Duane Hookom's 'Query By Form' from RogersAccessLibrary, as mentioned here about a week ago. A nice piece of software, that is almost perfect for what I need. Except that it uses DAO, and I need it to use it in a .adp. Does anybody have anything similar or perhaps a conversion that I can use in a .adp? Many thanks Tim Pain From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Aug 3 05:59:27 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:59:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT- Files To Psion Handhelds In-Reply-To: <12730068.1091525777061.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <410FFCAF.6895.16D0F3EF@lexacorp.com.pg> On 3 Aug 2004 at 11:36, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > To all, I have been given the excellent task of taking over someone?s > project (as they have left the company). I basically have to import a > .csv file in Access the from that data, create the following 3 files > for our psion handhelds (NEVER done this before, so need all the > patience and help one can get). Apparently I write out to three files > as Binary access .DAT, .IDX, .ID1. > > The .DAT file contains every record with the following detail. > > PackedBarCode, strItemCode, strDesc, strSPK > > PackedBarCode = 14 digit barcode compressed to 7 bytes. > strItemCode = Uncompressed 8 character code. > strDesc = Uncompressed 40 character description. > strSPK = Uncompressed 7 character packsize. > > The .IDX file contains every 128th record with the following detail. > > PackedBarCode, Offset > > PackedBarCode = 14 digit barcode compressed to 7 bytes. > Offset = Position of the PackedBarCode in the .DAT file (4 bytes) > > The .ID1 file contains every record with the following detail. > > strItemCode = 8 character uncompressed ItemCode > Offset = position of the ItemCode in the .DAT file (4 bytes) > > Has anyone ever worked with psions, and know a fool proof way of doing > this, I have a meeting in Doncaster on Thursday with the client and > would really like this section to be working. I haven't worked with psions, but I've done plenty of work with importing/exporting files. The destination shouldn't really matter (unless you need to worry about things like line terminator characters.) >From you description, there are no line terminators, this is a straight data stream so it should be fairly straightforward. This solution makes a couple of assumptions: 1. The PackedBarCode is just a set of seven ASCII characters in the normal range 32-127. 2. The Offsets are stored as Longs using the same method as Windows. Here's one way. Untested, but it should be close. Let me know if it needs tweaking: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Type myExport PackedBarCode As String * 7 strItemCode As String * 8 strDescr As String * 40 strSPK As String * 7 End Type Type myIndex PackedBarCode As String * 7 Offset As Long End Type Type myIndex1 strItemCode As String * 8 Offset As Long End Type Function Getdata() As Long Dim lngRecord As Long ' Record Counter Dim varOutput As myExport Dim varIndex As myIndex Dim varIndex1 As myIndex1 Open "Import.csv" For Input As #1 'Initialise output files as zero length Open "Output.dat" For Output As #2 Close #2 Open "Output.idx" For Output As #3 Close #3 Open "output.id1" For Output As #4 Close #4 Open "Output.dat" For Random As #2 Open "Output.idx" For Random As #3 Open "output.id1" For Random As #4 While Not EOF(1) lngRecord = lngRecord + 1 Input #1, varOutput.PackedBarCode, varOutput.strDescr, varOutput.strItemCode, varOutput.strSPK varIndex1.strItemCode = varOutput.strItemCode varIndex1.Offset = (lngRecord - 1) * 62 + 8 Put #2, , varOutput Put #3, , varIndex1 If lngRecord Mod 128 = 0 Then varIndex.PackedBarCode = varOutput.PackedBarCode varIndex.Offset = (lngRecord - 1) * 62 + 1 Put #4, , varIndex End If Wend Close #1 Close #2 Close #3 Close #4 End Function -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 3 06:30:31 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:30:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question In-Reply-To: <009d01c478f9$f71031c0$48619a89@DDICK> References: <009d01c478f9$f71031c0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <3615961601.20040803133031@cactus.dk> Hi Darren What are the periods? /gustav > I have a table that records the dates of occurences - so far so good. The table name is tblOffences, the Field is called OffenceDate > (very original - I know:-)) Date /Time data format Date Format = dd/mm/yyyy > > What I need is for the crosstab that is going to display my chart to > break down all the occurence dates into 'day' groups. IE show all > the offences throughout the year that fall on a monday into the > monday group, tuesday occurences into the tuesday group etc. > I want that bit to be my row heading. > > The column heading is to be Periods 1 through to 6. > This is also captured with the Offence date. > EG Each record captures Offence date - 1/1/2004, Period1 From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 3 06:53:57 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:53:57 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question In-Reply-To: <009d01c478f9$f71031c0$48619a89@DDICK> References: <009d01c478f9$f71031c0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <417367893.20040803135357@cactus.dk> Hi Darren > I have a table that records the dates of occurences - so far so good. The table name is tblOffences, the Field is called OffenceDate > (very original - I know:-)) Date /Time data format Date Format = dd/mm/yyyy > > Then I need a sum of 'em. EG over the whole year 100 occurences on Mondays, 200 on Tuesdays > 120 on Wednesdays etc. > Of course I have dates that span the whole year, I just want to know what the syntax or procedure > is for putting a years worth of data into 1 of 7 groups (ie each dayo the week) Stuart's WeekdayName() is a newer function from A2000 or A2002. So, for you with A97, that would be: Select Format(OffenceDate, "dddd", 2) As DayOfWeek, Weekday(OffenceDate, 2) As DayNumber, Count(OffenceDate) As OffenceCount From tblOffences Where Year(OffenceDate)=2004 Group By Format(OffenceDate, "dddd", 2), WeekDay(OffenceDate, 2) Order By WeekDay(OffenceDate, 2); /gustav From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 3 08:34:49 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 14:34:49 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which version of Office you were talking about. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition Charlotte: It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include Access.) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 3 08:54:29 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:54:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040803135432.MLTI1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Do you really have to move it to another table? You could just add a field -- Active/Inactive -- something like that. You'll have to remember to update all your queries, etc., but unless there's some reason to really need to move it to another table, I don't think I'd bother. Susan H. Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 3 08:56:34 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:56:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001901c47961$b372cb90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Paul, Create a "deleted" flag in the table. When the user does the delete, mark the record as deleted. The form only displays records with the deleted flag = false. You might want to make the deleted flag a date field set to null initially, then set to the data (and even time if needed) of the delete. Now you can run code that really deletes data (or archives it) that is deleted longer than X days ago. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which version of Office you were talking about. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition Charlotte: It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include Access.) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Tue Aug 3 09:08:03 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:08:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E115@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> What she really is telling you that she's not sure if she wants to delete at all. First blush, I think, I would take all deleting capabilities away. In the form properties, change the Allow Deletions to No. Hide the record selectors and add a delete button. Add a small "ysnDelete" Y/N field in the primary table. When the "delete" button is pressed, it would toggle the field to Yes (as in Delete) and then all queries etc. would not show that record. The form could then be refreshed to show that record has been "deleted." Another form could be built to show the "Deleted" records and any record she needs to "Undeleted" could then be reactivated. Any record that truly needs to be deleted can then be separated out and permanently removed. Pros: It's not too difficult to add the field and change a few queries. A little tweaking and it shouldn't be too difficult. Cons: Forms will have to be modified to remove the true delete function of the form. Tracking all queries, forms, reports where the new field could be time consuming. Just one way this could be done. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which version of Office you were talking about. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition Charlotte: It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include Access.) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Tue Aug 3 09:22:54 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:22:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes In-Reply-To: <001901c47961$b372cb90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000001c47965$5dd71110$ac0b6bd5@netboxxp> Paul Johns right, but if you find that there will be more than one delete against the same primary key then a delete flag on its own is not enough, consider an incremented number instead... Mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: 03 August 2004 14:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Paul, Create a "deleted" flag in the table. When the user does the delete, mark the record as deleted. The form only displays records with the deleted flag = false. You might want to make the deleted flag a date field set to null initially, then set to the data (and even time if needed) of the delete. Now you can run code that really deletes data (or archives it) that is deleted longer than X days ago. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which version of Office you were talking about. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition Charlotte: It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include Access.) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 22/07/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 22/07/2004 From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 3 09:33:16 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:33:16 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: This is an idea I hadn't thought of. But it seemed to me a separate table would be the handiest place for seeing 'deleted' files, and deciding if some information mightn't be better kept. Many thanks, Jim Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes What she really is telling you that she's not sure if she wants to delete at all. First blush, I think, I would take all deleting capabilities away. In the form properties, change the Allow Deletions to No. Hide the record selectors and add a delete button. Add a small "ysnDelete" Y/N field in the primary table. When the "delete" button is pressed, it would toggle the field to Yes (as in Delete) and then all queries etc. would not show that record. The form could then be refreshed to show that record has been "deleted." Another form could be built to show the "Deleted" records and any record she needs to "Undeleted" could then be reactivated. Any record that truly needs to be deleted can then be separated out and permanently removed. Pros: It's not too difficult to add the field and change a few queries. A little tweaking and it shouldn't be too difficult. Cons: Forms will have to be modified to remove the true delete function of the form. Tracking all queries, forms, reports where the new field could be time consuming. Just one way this could be done. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which version of Office you were talking about. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 ProfessionalEdition Charlotte: It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include Access.) Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is something else entirely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA store. CompUSA's store price was $329.99.) I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! Alan C. Lawhon -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 3 09:42:32 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:42:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: Yes, that's a good and simple idea, Susan H, thanks very much. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Do you really have to move it to another table? You could just add a field -- Active/Inactive -- something like that. You'll have to remember to update all your queries, etc., but unless there's some reason to really need to move it to another table, I don't think I'd bother. Susan H. Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 3 10:36:09 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:36:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 3 10:51:19 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:51:19 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ranthony at wrsystems.com Tue Aug 3 11:00:08 2004 From: ranthony at wrsystems.com (ranthony at wrsystems.com) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:00:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: <5F21A4E8B8DD734992EF9E70AC9D3064128CBD@mail2.wrsystems.com> Sorry to come in late on this one, but I've got an app that works in a very similar manner. The user can check a record as "completed" using a date field and a checkbox. A report can then be run showing "completed" items ready for deletion. A one-at-a-time or batch deletion can be run, which removes those records from the main table to an "archive" table, which if the need arises, can be used to restore the records to the main table. It also provides for reports to be run on the archived table for historical program reviews, etc. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 10:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Yes, that's a good and simple idea, Susan H, thanks very much. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Do you really have to move it to another table? You could just add a field -- Active/Inactive -- something like that. You'll have to remember to update all your queries, etc., but unless there's some reason to really need to move it to another table, I don't think I'd bother. Susan H. Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 3 11:03:52 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:03:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Sorry, but I don't see how the user could use an app where they saw a form and nothing else. It is possible to float a form by shrinking and hiding the *main* Access window behind it, but it frankly isn't worth the trouble IMO. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 7:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 3 11:17:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:17:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB20F@main2.marlow.com> Okay Paul, my website is finally back up. Goto http://www.wolfwares.com and download the MiniCalendar database. It is in the Microsoft Access section, (MiniCalendar3.zip). It's an Access 97 database. Notice that when it starts, the form is on the desktop. No sign of Access at all. To 'show' Access, hit Ctrl-A (same to hide it again). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 10:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 3 11:25:41 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:25:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Anyone have a SpeedStream 5260 DSL modem? In-Reply-To: <2025BB6F17FCB54791F23CD505583328041B91@starfleet.unknown.local> Message-ID: <002101c47976$851e6500$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Is this thing Linux and the firewall, or do I have to get Linux installed and functioning, then install this? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of ACTEBS Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Anyone have a SpeedStream 5260 DSL modem? Drew, I think you'll find there are more elegant solutions to this. I would recommend you leave the modem as just that a fully bridged modem that hooks up to smoothwall, a linux based firewall with a wonderful browser based administering tool. You can check it out at www.smoothwall.org All you need is an old PC 486 or better with 64Meg of RAM 2 x network cards and you're away. So simple to set up and so much more secure than those inbuilt firewalls the modems come with. I've been using it for the past 6 months and have been blown away by it's flexibility and robustness...Best of all it's free - can't do better than that! HTH Vlad www.actebs.com.au -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Saturday, 31 July 2004 8:05 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Anyone have a SpeedStream 5260 DSL modem? Just curious. Had to jump through some hoops with my DSL provider, and in the end, I ended up with a new DSL account, which still has static IP's, but uses PPPoE. A complete pain. Didn't want to install EnterNet 300, so I bit the bullet, and tried the hack to upgrade my DSL modem into a full blown DSL Modem/Router (firewall, PPPoE, DNS, etc.). Had to do some web research to pull it off, but if anyone on the list has a SpeedStream 5260 (which has an actual model number that says 5660), let me know, I can give you exact steps (and the firmware upgrades you'll need) to pull off the upgrade. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Tue Aug 3 11:38:02 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:38:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: AccessD Members in Edinburgh? In-Reply-To: <3615961601.20040803133031@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <00c701c47978$3f430610$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Hello Group: I will be in Scotland next week, attending the Festival Fringe. If there are any AccessD members who will be in the Edinburgh area at that time, I'd like to take the opportunity to meet with you. So, if anyone out there is available and interested, contact me offline -- I'll be happy to buy you a cold one. -Ken From artful at rogers.com Tue Aug 3 16:09:09 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:09:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: AccessD Members in London or Paris? In-Reply-To: <00c701c47978$3f430610$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: <00ac01c4799e$1ea6ad50$6601a8c0@rock> I will be travelling to London and Paris in about late October/early November. Any listers reside in those fine cities? It would be fun to meet up. Contact me off list if in these environs. Arthur From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 3 19:12:22 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:12:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question References: <009d01c478f9$f71031c0$48619a89@DDICK> <417367893.20040803135357@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <004701c479b7$b70487c0$48619a89@DDICK> Perfect!!!! Access 2K - No WeekDayName Function - you are correct Many thanks Gustav cha cha cha Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K:CrossTab Question > Hi Darren > > > I have a table that records the dates of occurences - so far so good. The table name is tblOffences, the Field is called OffenceDate > > (very original - I know:-)) Date /Time data format Date Format = dd/mm/yyyy > > > > Then I need a sum of 'em. EG over the whole year 100 occurences on Mondays, 200 on Tuesdays > > 120 on Wednesdays etc. > > > Of course I have dates that span the whole year, I just want to know what the syntax or procedure > > is for putting a years worth of data into 1 of 7 groups (ie each dayo the week) > > Stuart's WeekdayName() is a newer function from A2000 or A2002. > > So, for you with A97, that would be: > > Select > Format(OffenceDate, "dddd", 2) As DayOfWeek, > Weekday(OffenceDate, 2) As DayNumber, > Count(OffenceDate) As OffenceCount > From > tblOffences > Where > Year(OffenceDate)=2004 > Group By > Format(OffenceDate, "dddd", 2), > WeekDay(OffenceDate, 2) > Order By > WeekDay(OffenceDate, 2); > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 3 19:42:38 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:42:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes References: Message-ID: <009201c479bb$f1610890$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Paul I rarely let my users 'delete' records In virtually all my tables I have a field called IsDeleted - Data Type = Number All my 'delete' buttons actually set the value for IsDeleted in that record to -1 Then the form refreshes to NOT show records where IsDeleted =-1 That way we can give the appearance (and make yourself look good in the process) of having the ability to undo or rollback when users 'stuff something up' after they have left the record or closed the form I actually then move (at whatever period suits) all records where IsDeleted = -1 to another table or dB I rationalise this to all my users (the ones involved at admin level in the design specs at least) and I haven't had anyone disagree (yet). In fact when you explain the benefits and low overheads al my customers (so far) agree it's a great idea. You can then build them an interface (I do) to recover 'deleted' records or data. I don't let 'em edit data through those interfaces - just recover 'deleted' records or REALLY delete - depending on Logon Permissions. It's all pretty transparent to the users and the Admin people really know what's going on and love the ability of a 2nd chance recovery or proper deletion Hope this helps Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:34 PM Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes > Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? > > The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds > the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it > goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. > > Expert guidance would be appreciated. > > Cheers paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:27 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 > ProfessionalEdition > > > But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which > version of Office you were talking about. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research > [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 > ProfessionalEdition > > > Charlotte: > > It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and > "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version > includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include > Access.) > > Alan C. Lawhon > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 > Professional Edition > > > What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is > something else entirely. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional > Edition > > > I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional > Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go > to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product > available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price > available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what > makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" > which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: > > > Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future > Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software > Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products > sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party > merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. > > > At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 > threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" > shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good > deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is > currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking > at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA > store. CompUSA's store price was > $329.99.) > > I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal > clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, > you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! > > Alan C. Lawhon > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 3 20:44:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:44:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes In-Reply-To: <009201c479bb$f1610890$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <000201c479c4$8e6f5b70$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Agreed. I have an active and a trash flag (Booleans). Active means just that, active in the database, should be showing at all times. Inactive means not ready for archive but still an active record. Trash means someone tried to do a delete. The state table looks like: Active=True, Trash=False - Record is active Active=False, Trash = false - Record is inactive Active=False, Trash=True - Someone tried to delete Active=True, Trash=True - Invalid state. I have relationships set between virtually every parent / child with cascade delete turned off. This causes any attempt to delete where a child record exists to generate a jet error. My error handler simply asks "are you sure you want to delete", and if the answer is yes, clears the active flag and sets the trash flag, requerying the form. All forms display only Active records. Since the active flag was just cleared, the record "disappears" or appears to be deleted. You would not believe the relief on the user's face when you undelete a record they know they shouldn't have deleted. Worth more good will than anything else you can do for them. I am able to prevent deletes on records with no children but in many cases I don't bother. Many times a single record with no children should be allowed to be deleted anyway. Mistaken data entry, trash records etc. Since I use a framework, and this stuff is built into the form class, it is just there, available for any form that uses the form class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Hi Paul I rarely let my users 'delete' records In virtually all my tables I have a field called IsDeleted - Data Type = Number All my 'delete' buttons actually set the value for IsDeleted in that record to -1 Then the form refreshes to NOT show records where IsDeleted =-1 That way we can give the appearance (and make yourself look good in the process) of having the ability to undo or rollback when users 'stuff something up' after they have left the record or closed the form I actually then move (at whatever period suits) all records where IsDeleted = -1 to another table or dB I rationalise this to all my users (the ones involved at admin level in the design specs at least) and I haven't had anyone disagree (yet). In fact when you explain the benefits and low overheads al my customers (so far) agree it's a great idea. You can then build them an interface (I do) to recover 'deleted' records or data. I don't let 'em edit data through those interfaces - just recover 'deleted' records or REALLY delete - depending on Logon Permissions. It's all pretty transparent to the users and the Admin people really know what's going on and love the ability of a 2nd chance recovery or proper deletion Hope this helps Darren From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Wed Aug 4 02:37:50 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:37:50 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Hi Charlotte It would be ideal if upon opening their Access database there was just a form that offered all the Users could need. I'd like them not to be going to tables and queries - and nor to be able to find how to get there. When you offered that neat piece of coding before, you reminded me of what I see as ideal. Of course one can make adjustmentments on Startup. But they quickly learn the Window/Unhide entrance. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 5:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Sorry, but I don't see how the user could use an app where they saw a form and nothing else. It is possible to float a form by shrinking and hiding the *main* Access window behind it, but it frankly isn't worth the trouble IMO. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 7:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Wed Aug 4 02:46:28 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:46:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: Yes, this isalmost exactly what I had in mind originally, though it has to be said that SusanH's idea of adding a field has a lot in its favour. I'd be very keen to see the code that manages this delayed deletion route for you, if possible. It seems to me to be something that everyone needs who has Users not under the direct control. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: ranthony at wrsystems.com [mailto:ranthony at wrsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 5:00 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Sorry to come in late on this one, but I've got an app that works in a very similar manner. The user can check a record as "completed" using a date field and a checkbox. A report can then be run showing "completed" items ready for deletion. A one-at-a-time or batch deletion can be run, which removes those records from the main table to an "archive" table, which if the need arises, can be used to restore the records to the main table. It also provides for reports to be run on the archived table for historical program reviews, etc. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 10:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Yes, that's a good and simple idea, Susan H, thanks very much. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Do you really have to move it to another table? You could just add a field -- Active/Inactive -- something like that. You'll have to remember to update all your queries, etc., but unless there's some reason to really need to move it to another table, I don't think I'd bother. Susan H. Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. Expert guidance would be appreciated. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Wed Aug 4 03:29:51 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:29:51 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: Yes, that is great, Darren. Exactly the sort of thing I had in mind - only much cleverer. Oh yes, I'd certainly tell the User about the recoverability of 'deletes'. It's not putting them in the dark that I planned, just making things recoverable in a simple way. I'm much obliged. Thanks very much for that. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Hi Paul I rarely let my users 'delete' records In virtually all my tables I have a field called IsDeleted - Data Type = Number All my 'delete' buttons actually set the value for IsDeleted in that record to -1 Then the form refreshes to NOT show records where IsDeleted =-1 That way we can give the appearance (and make yourself look good in the process) of having the ability to undo or rollback when users 'stuff something up' after they have left the record or closed the form I actually then move (at whatever period suits) all records where IsDeleted = -1 to another table or dB I rationalise this to all my users (the ones involved at admin level in the design specs at least) and I haven't had anyone disagree (yet). In fact when you explain the benefits and low overheads al my customers (so far) agree it's a great idea. You can then build them an interface (I do) to recover 'deleted' records or data. I don't let 'em edit data through those interfaces - just recover 'deleted' records or REALLY delete - depending on Logon Permissions. It's all pretty transparent to the users and the Admin people really know what's going on and love the ability of a 2nd chance recovery or proper deletion Hope this helps Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:34 PM Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes > Any of our craftsfolk ever coded for something like this please? > > The user wants to delete a file in a table. She goes to a form, and finds > the record. She clicks a button and the record is 'deleted' - only really it > goes into a waiting backup table ... just in case. > > Expert guidance would be appreciated. > > Cheers paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:27 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 > ProfessionalEdition > > > But XP, Pro or otherwise, is 2002, not 2003. I wasn't clear on which > version of Office you were talking about. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research > [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 > ProfessionalEdition > > > Charlotte: > > It appears to me that the only difference between the "Home" and > "Professional" editions of Office XP is that the "Professional" version > includes Access. (The "Home" and "Student" versions do not include > Access.) > > Alan C. Lawhon > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 > Professional Edition > > > What is Office XP 2003 when it's at home? Office XP is 2002 and 2003 is > something else entirely. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lawhonac [mailto:lawhonac at hiwaay.net] > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 10:12 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Good Deal on Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional > Edition > > > I've run across a deal on "Microsoft Office XP 2003 Professional > Edition" (Upgrade Version) which some of you might find interesting. Go > to Amazon.com's "Software Store" and you'll find the above product > available for a price of $269.99. This may not be the best price > available for the XP Professional (upgrade version) of Office, but what > makes this deal really interesting is the following "Special Offer" > which Amazon is attaching to orders placed in the next day or so: > > > Special Offer: Receive a promotional certificate for $50 off a future > Amazon.com purchase when you spend $250 in our Electronics and Software > Stores. Offer valid through August 1, 2004. (Applies only to products > sold by Amazon.com. Does not apply to products sold by third-party > merchants and other sellers through the Amazon.com site.) Here's how. > > > At $269.99, "Office XP 2003 Professional Edition" tops the $250.00 > threshold by just under $20.00 - plus you can get free "SuperSaver" > shipping because the order total exceeds $25.00. It must be a good > deal, because I noticed that this [upgrade version] of Office is > currently at 45 on Amazon.com's real time sales ranking. (I was looking > at the upgrade version of Office XP Professional tonight at a CompUSA > store. CompUSA's store price was > $329.99.) > > I have been considering the upgrade for quite some time, but this deal > clinches it. (I just ordered my copy from Amazon.) If interested, > you'll have to act fast - this offer expires today! > > Alan C. Lawhon > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Wed Aug 4 04:47:47 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:47:47 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Quite amazing, Drew, but when converted to 2k it doesn't go exactly right - or it may be this computer. Anyway, I certainly see what you mean. Thank you. (I'll try to look it on another machine.) That's a very nice looking website. cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 5:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Okay Paul, my website is finally back up. Goto http://www.wolfwares.com and download the MiniCalendar database. It is in the Microsoft Access section, (MiniCalendar3.zip). It's an Access 97 database. Notice that when it starts, the form is on the desktop. No sign of Access at all. To 'show' Access, hit Ctrl-A (same to hide it again). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 10:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Wed Aug 4 07:50:48 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:50:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED14F@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 4 08:20:16 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 15:20:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED14F@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> References: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED14F@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: <15122724305.20040804152016@cactus.dk> Hi Roz That's really a matter of taste. I see both points but wonder why he doesn't go to the end suggesting random numbers for the details. It's a bit like giving tables numbers for names instead of friendly names. Also, who would those be that would create "arbitrary & meaningless character codes"? You could compromise by creating a Select All query for each table and name the query as you like - then use that and not the table. /gustav > Dear all > I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of > details in our database. > His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be > exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, > X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another > whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. > Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I > would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the > 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for > claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, > whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say > XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. > The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & > meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered > details will be in a sensible sequence. > a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion > of related details > b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code > c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed > Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully > numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule > him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is > (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up > with any convincing arguments. > TIA > Roz From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Aug 4 09:07:15 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:07:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <30785086.1091625575120.JavaMail.root@sniper4.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000f01c47a2c$58b05f80$de1811d8@danwaters> Roz, Personally, I think your contractor has a 'lot of experience' working without good business judgment. Any database is, after all, just a business tool. Maintenance on this system could be very expensive. I take the other direction and provide all my table fields, form controls, variables, recordsets, etc., with full names. An example would be: FinanceDefine (field - text) FinanceDefineValue (field - integer) FinanceDefineDate (field - Date) lblFinanceDefine (label) cboFinanceDefine (combobox) txtFinanceDefineValue (textbox) txtFinanceDefineDate (textbox) In this particular case, there are similar fields for 6 other departmental roles equivalent to Finance. Using a consistent naming convention lets me set up one procedure Function to handle all 7 roles for checking values or formatting. Another strong value for me is that because the code is directly readable, the amount of commenting I need to do is greatly reduced. It takes time to type in the full names, but if I used 'random' names, then with each code change I would also need to retype the comments. I believe that I put in a little extra work up front, with a payback later on of being able to quickly read the code to understand what is happening. Are you really limited to 8 characters for field names? If so, what is the BE you are using? Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 7:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Wed Aug 4 09:23:57 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 15:23:57 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: I have a few minutes for this really interesting idea now. I have the field in the table, and the data type is Number. 1. I am not sure what is meant by "set the value for IsDeleted in that record to -1" (By a bit a coding?) 2. And - sorry - this escapes me too - "Then the form refreshes to NOT show records where IsDeleted =-1" (Via a query?) Be very pleased if you could let me know. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:43 AM From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 4 10:10:38 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:10:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c47a35$36b12190$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Paul, The way I handle this is to have a control on the form which exposes (is bound to) that field in the table, and is called the same thing on every form. In my case it is a Boolean value in the table, and thus a checkbox on the form. The checkboxes are always named chkActive and chkTrash on my forms (in my code). The code that intercepts the delete has access to the form. When the decision to actually perform the "delete" is made, MY code simply clears the active and sets the trash by programmatically manipulating those controls on the form. If you are using a "deleted" field and a text box called txtDeleted then the code would look something like: me!txtDeleted = -1 '(which is the numeric value for True By The Way) Me.dirty = false '(which saves that changed data) Me.Requery 'To cause the form to no longer display the "deleted" record. The form's query has a where clause Select MyData >From MyTable Where Deleted = False Since you just set Deleted = true and requeried the form, the data "disappears" One important thing here though is to NOT try and just capture a delete button click. You should use the BeforeDelete event in the form. In that you ask the question "are you sure", then you cancel the delete (you don't want a delete really happening) and you run the code that sets the Deleted text box, saves the change and requeries the form. The reason I caution against simply providing a delete button and trying to capture that click is that a record can be deleted by selecting the record and using the menu at the top (if the menu is exposed), selecting a record and hitting the delete key, etc. You want to capture ALL attempts to delete the data through the form regardless of how they figure out to perform that delete. Capturing the BeforeDelete event and doing it there guarantees that no deletes will be performed manually through that form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes I have a few minutes for this really interesting idea now. I have the field in the table, and the data type is Number. 1. I am not sure what is meant by "set the value for IsDeleted in that record to -1" (By a bit a coding?) 2. And - sorry - this escapes me too - "Then the form refreshes to NOT show records where IsDeleted =-1" (Via a query?) Be very pleased if you could let me know. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:43 AM -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 4 10:20:28 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 01:20:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED14F@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: <41118B5C.5799.1D7E200@lexacorp.com.pg> On 4 Aug 2004 at 13:50, Roz Clarke wrote: > > Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully > numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule > him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is > (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up > with any convincing arguments. > First question, why are you limited to 8 character names? Unless that is a limitation of the DBMS, and I can't think of one today that has such a limit, there is no reason to do so. Numerics Con: Meaningless numeric names are a good method of "job security by obfuscation". They make code maintenance a bastard even for people who are working with the system regularly. They are a total nightmare for anyone who has to come in later and make sense of what was previously developed. Pro: I can't think of anything MeaningfulNames: Pro: Makes code easier to follow, especially if you use one of the commmon conventions such as Leszynski/Reddick Con: I can't think of anything Try googling "naming conventions database" :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Wed Aug 4 11:05:41 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:05:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form Message-ID: <000b01c47a3c$e498ebb0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> I have a user who wants to be able to print forms. If you use the Print Preview button from the menu, it shows a print preview with no option to print, and no toolbar. When you click File-Close the preview window closes, as well as the form. How can I build Print Preview for a form so the user can back up without closing the form? Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 10:57:35 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 08:57:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Message-ID: You seem to be stuck in the perennial argument about meaningful vs meaningless keys. I agree that keys that are never exposed to the user should be autonumbers or their equivalent. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "naming details"? You don't name records, you create keys for them. Personally, I prefer meaningless keys, because those are used internally by the DBMS, not by humans. They are used to create and enforce relationships, while some human-friendly value (like an agreed-upon code) is used to provide something the user can recognize for other purposes. If you are working in the tables themselves, you're the one who is wrong because that is a good way to destroy the integrity of the data. Even as a developer, I do NOT create meaningful keys so I can look at a single table and know exactly what each record refers to. I guess that means I'm mostly on the contractor's side in this, although I would go further and use a straight autonumber without any alpha characters or attempt to make the thing partly meaningful. As far as leaving gaps to insert other records, that is a trap because you are depending on ordering by the meaningful PK. In fact, with an additional non-PK user-friendly key, you can order on that and create all the gaps you want. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Roz Clarke [mailto:roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 11:00:26 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:00:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: It's perfectly possible to turn off those features unless a command-line argument is passed when the database is open. I've done that on projects in order to leave myself a backdoor but remove any way for the user to get into the guts of the mdb. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte It would be ideal if upon opening their Access database there was just a form that offered all the Users could need. I'd like them not to be going to tables and queries - and nor to be able to find how to get there. When you offered that neat piece of coding before, you reminded me of what I see as ideal. Of course one can make adjustmentments on Startup. But they quickly learn the Window/Unhide entrance. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 5:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Sorry, but I don't see how the user could use an app where they saw a form and nothing else. It is possible to float a form by shrinking and hiding the *main* Access window behind it, but it frankly isn't worth the trouble IMO. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 7:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dkalsow at yahoo.com Wed Aug 4 11:00:39 2004 From: dkalsow at yahoo.com (Dale Kalsow) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Text Box Exit Function In-Reply-To: <000b01c47a3c$e498ebb0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Message-ID: <20040804160039.37722.qmail@web50407.mail.yahoo.com> I am trying to validate the data in a field when the user exits the field. When I use the field's name (me!fieldname) its value is null even though I have entered something into it. Does anyone know how I get the current value of the text box that I just entered the data into? Thanks in advance! Dale __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 4 11:18:08 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 18:18:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form In-Reply-To: <000b01c47a3c$e498ebb0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> References: <000b01c47a3c$e498ebb0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Message-ID: <6733396000.20040804181808@cactus.dk> Hi Mark Here I have that toolbar - with its own "Close" icon. I think you just need to select this toolbar when your form is shown in preview. /gustav > I have a user who wants to be able to print forms. If you use the Print > Preview button from the menu, it shows a print preview with no option to > print, and no toolbar. When you click File-Close the preview window closes, > as well as the form. How can I build Print Preview for a form so the user > can back up without closing the form? > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 4 11:40:46 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:40:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <018101c47a41$cb307530$6601a8c0@rock> After two decades of propounding standard Hungarian notation, I am now dead set against it, for two reasons: A) You have to read past the prefix to find out what anything relates to. IOW, you increase noise at the expense of signal. B) All objects named thus sort poorly. How does it help you if every cbo is prefixed "cbo"? For the past year or so I have used what I call the "object-action" naming scheme. It uses Hungarian notation but as suffix not prefix. This preserves the sort order in a meaningful way. A couple of examples: CustomerInsert_ap - suffix means application procedure (as opposed to system procedure) CustomerSelectByName_fnt - user-defined function that returns a table of customerIDs and names sorted by name (SQL 2000+ only) CustomerFilter_cbo - combo box that filters the form by selected customer (i.e. show only the orders placed by selected customer) Perhaps the main reason that I have moved to this convention is the ease of teaching it to a new hire, and letting her find her way around the database quickly. "Look for the object of interest, followed by the action of interest, and know what you're dealing with by the suffix." In Access 2002+, this convention is especially profitable, because a single "Queries" tab houses sprocs, UDFs and views. Prefixing them all with standard Hungarian prefixes muddies the water, IMO. My convention lets you type "C" and immediately go to all the "Customer" related stuff. Then you can quickly deduce what's available for re-use, and what sort of object it is. Given the overwhelming devotion to standard Hungarian notation, I expect this message to cause lots of flames and rebuttals. That's why we're here, after all :) Arthur From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 4 11:53:49 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:53:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <018601c47a43$9dbea110$6601a8c0@rock> Well said, Charlotte. I would add that the definition of any column whose subcolumn positions "mean" something is by definition a violation of the standard normal forms. Each column/value should contain precisely one unit of information. Subsetting a column into sub-columns is IMO always wrong. For example: Value: XLW0001 Where XL means Extra Large and W means white. Wrong, wrong, wrong, IMO! This is what columns are for! Even supposing that you might want to search for "XLW", that simply means that you search two columns not one -- i.e. it's in interface issue not a database design issue. Re: your comments regarding autonumbers, I agree 1000%. Gaps are an attempt to insert meaning where none ought to reside. Imagine a chicken farmer trying to create meaningful PKs for the eggs laid by her 10,000 chickens. All I want is a bloddy omelet! Hee hee hee. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? You seem to be stuck in the perennial argument about meaningful vs meaningless keys. I agree that keys that are never exposed to the user should be autonumbers or their equivalent. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "naming details"? You don't name records, you create keys for them. Personally, I prefer meaningless keys, because those are used internally by the DBMS, not by humans. They are used to create and enforce relationships, while some human-friendly value (like an agreed-upon code) is used to provide something the user can recognize for other purposes. If you are working in the tables themselves, you're the one who is wrong because that is a good way to destroy the integrity of the data. Even as a developer, I do NOT create meaningful keys so I can look at a single table and know exactly what each record refers to. I guess that means I'm mostly on the contractor's side in this, although I would go further and use a straight autonumber without any alpha characters or attempt to make the thing partly meaningful. As far as leaving gaps to insert other records, that is a trap because you are depending on ordering by the meaningful PK. In fact, with an additional non-PK user-friendly key, you can order on that and create all the gaps you want. Charlotte Foust From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Wed Aug 4 12:12:30 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:12:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form References: <000b01c47a3c$e498ebb0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> <6733396000.20040804181808@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000e01c47a46$3a4e35c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Gustav, That works if I allow full menus. If I don't, then I just get the preview with no toolbar. I can add a custom toolbar to the form with a preview button, but when I preview I still have that same custom toolbar, since it's the form that's open and not a report version of it. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > Hi Mark > > Here I have that toolbar - with its own "Close" icon. > I think you just need to select this toolbar when your form is shown > in preview. > > /gustav > > > > I have a user who wants to be able to print forms. If you use the Print > > Preview button from the menu, it shows a print preview with no option to > > print, and no toolbar. When you click File-Close the preview window closes, > > as well as the form. How can I build Print Preview for a form so the user > > can back up without closing the form? > > > Mark Whittinghill > > Symphony Information Services > > 763-391-7400 > > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 4 11:52:28 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:52:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED14F@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Roz: You pay the bills and the contractor is the payee. What ever you say goes. No matter how dumb I may feel the client's requests are, if it does not affect the functionality, it is my job to attempt to satisfy them...period. Bottom-line HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 4 12:07:24 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 19:07:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form In-Reply-To: <000e01c47a46$3a4e35c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> References: <000b01c47a3c$e498ebb0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> <6733396000.20040804181808@cactus.dk> <000e01c47a46$3a4e35c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Message-ID: <11136352111.20040804190724@cactus.dk> Hi Mark OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. /gustav > Gustav, > That works if I allow full menus. If I don't, then I just get the preview > with no toolbar. I can add a custom toolbar to the form with a preview > button, but when I preview I still have that same custom toolbar, since it's > the form that's open and not a report version of it. > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> Here I have that toolbar - with its own "Close" icon. >> I think you just need to select this toolbar when your form is shown >> in preview. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > I have a user who wants to be able to print forms. If you use the Print >> > Preview button from the menu, it shows a print preview with no option to >> > print, and no toolbar. When you click File-Close the preview window closes, >> > as well as the form. How can I build Print Preview for a form so the user >> > can back up without closing the form? From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Wed Aug 4 12:40:19 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:40:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form References: <000b01c47a3c$e498ebb0$2201a8c0@PASCAL><6733396000.20040804181808@cactus.dk><000e01c47a46$3a4e35c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> <11136352111.20040804190724@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001201c47a4a$1d386420$2201a8c0@PASCAL> :-( I guess my choice is enable new menus or tell them to live with it? Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > Hi Mark > > OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. > > /gustav > From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 4 12:29:07 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:29:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Arthur, I agree in principle...in fact, before I was "educated" in common coding practices, I too had "naturally" developed and utilized a naming scheme that employed suffixes rather than prefixes. I don't know if you wanted the likes of me on your side;) ...but there it is. IMHO a standard is a standard and one should work to whatever procedure fits his/her style. The point, I believe, is consistency, not conformity. I'm hopeful that the conversation won't raise to the point of a fanatical flame war. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:41 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions After two decades of propounding standard Hungarian notation, I am now dead set against it, for two reasons: A) You have to read past the prefix to find out what anything relates to. IOW, you increase noise at the expense of signal. B) All objects named thus sort poorly. How does it help you if every cbo is prefixed "cbo"? For the past year or so I have used what I call the "object-action" naming scheme. It uses Hungarian notation but as suffix not prefix. This preserves the sort order in a meaningful way. A couple of examples: CustomerInsert_ap - suffix means application procedure (as opposed to system procedure) CustomerSelectByName_fnt - user-defined function that returns a table of customerIDs and names sorted by name (SQL 2000+ only) CustomerFilter_cbo - combo box that filters the form by selected customer (i.e. show only the orders placed by selected customer) Perhaps the main reason that I have moved to this convention is the ease of teaching it to a new hire, and letting her find her way around the database quickly. "Look for the object of interest, followed by the action of interest, and know what you're dealing with by the suffix." In Access 2002+, this convention is especially profitable, because a single "Queries" tab houses sprocs, UDFs and views. Prefixing them all with standard Hungarian prefixes muddies the water, IMO. My convention lets you type "C" and immediately go to all the "Customer" related stuff. Then you can quickly deduce what's available for re-use, and what sort of object it is. Given the overwhelming devotion to standard Hungarian notation, I expect this message to cause lots of flames and rebuttals. That's why we're here, after all :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From MPorter at acsalaska.com Wed Aug 4 12:30:19 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:30:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <635B80FE6C7D5A409586A6A110D97D170E4BB5@ACSANCHOR.corp.acsalaska.com> No flames here, I have made the same change to my naming convention as well. It started with Report-Subreports and Form-Subforms, I was tired of fighting the prefix to find all sub objects to the main object. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:41 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > After two decades of propounding standard Hungarian notation, I am now > dead set against it, for two reasons: > > A) You have to read past the prefix to find out what anything relates > to. IOW, you increase noise at the expense of signal. > B) All objects named thus sort poorly. How does it help you > if every cbo > is prefixed "cbo"? > > For the past year or so I have used what I call the "object-action" > naming scheme. It uses Hungarian notation but as suffix not > prefix. This > preserves the sort order in a meaningful way. A couple of examples: > > CustomerInsert_ap - suffix means application procedure (as opposed to > system procedure) > CustomerSelectByName_fnt - user-defined function that returns > a table of > customerIDs and names sorted by name (SQL 2000+ only) > CustomerFilter_cbo - combo box that filters the form by selected > customer (i.e. show only the orders placed by selected customer) > > Perhaps the main reason that I have moved to this convention > is the ease > of teaching it to a new hire, and letting her find her way around the > database quickly. "Look for the object of interest, followed by the > action of interest, and know what you're dealing with by the suffix." > > In Access 2002+, this convention is especially profitable, because a > single "Queries" tab houses sprocs, UDFs and views. Prefixing them all > with standard Hungarian prefixes muddies the water, IMO. My convention > lets you type "C" and immediately go to all the "Customer" related > stuff. Then you can quickly deduce what's available for > re-use, and what > sort of object it is. > > Given the overwhelming devotion to standard Hungarian > notation, I expect > this message to cause lots of flames and rebuttals. That's why we're > here, after all :) > > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > *********************************************************************************** 4/8/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 4 12:38:57 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:38:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <018101c47a41$cb307530$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <001001c47a49$f05a5670$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Arthur, While I pretty much agree with you I have not yet moved to the suffix method. Further I do have a problem with those developers who name things without using abbreviations, such that you end up with CustomerAddressesSortedByWhoKnowsWhatJustAsAnExampleQSel. At least the object type as a prefix places it at the beginning where it can be found. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:41 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions After two decades of propounding standard Hungarian notation, I am now dead set against it, for two reasons: A) You have to read past the prefix to find out what anything relates to. IOW, you increase noise at the expense of signal. B) All objects named thus sort poorly. How does it help you if every cbo is prefixed "cbo"? For the past year or so I have used what I call the "object-action" naming scheme. It uses Hungarian notation but as suffix not prefix. This preserves the sort order in a meaningful way. A couple of examples: CustomerInsert_ap - suffix means application procedure (as opposed to system procedure) CustomerSelectByName_fnt - user-defined function that returns a table of customerIDs and names sorted by name (SQL 2000+ only) CustomerFilter_cbo - combo box that filters the form by selected customer (i.e. show only the orders placed by selected customer) Perhaps the main reason that I have moved to this convention is the ease of teaching it to a new hire, and letting her find her way around the database quickly. "Look for the object of interest, followed by the action of interest, and know what you're dealing with by the suffix." In Access 2002+, this convention is especially profitable, because a single "Queries" tab houses sprocs, UDFs and views. Prefixing them all with standard Hungarian prefixes muddies the water, IMO. My convention lets you type "C" and immediately go to all the "Customer" related stuff. Then you can quickly deduce what's available for re-use, and what sort of object it is. Given the overwhelming devotion to standard Hungarian notation, I expect this message to cause lots of flames and rebuttals. That's why we're here, after all :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From GregSmith at starband.net Wed Aug 4 12:39:20 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:39:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Test for a Particular Reference in Code. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1265.216.43.21.235.1091641160.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi everybody! I'm trying to distribute an app that I've modified and I'm running into references issues at the client's site. It's in Access97 (but not for much longer). I'm having to reference Microsoft Office 8.0 Object Library (mso97.dll) and I have it update the reference through the code. However, if it already is referenced, then I get the error that you can't have a reference with the same name, etc. What I need to do is test to see if this reference already exists. If it does, then don't add it. But I can't figure out how to test for it specifically. Is there a way to test for a particular reference (in this case, the one for the MSOffice 8.0 Obj lib? TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 4 12:50:49 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:50:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c47a4b$99341640$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> In fact if it were me, I would add at least one field for these codes such that you can specify each part of the whole individually. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Hi Roz: You pay the bills and the contractor is the payee. What ever you say goes. No matter how dumb I may feel the client's requests are, if it does not affect the functionality, it is my job to attempt to satisfy them...period. Bottom-line HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 4 12:54:33 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:54:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: You surprised me John:) I would have bet money that your response would have included a reference as to how it would impact a framework;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Arthur, While I pretty much agree with you I have not yet moved to the suffix method. Further I do have a problem with those developers who name things without using abbreviations, such that you end up with CustomerAddressesSortedByWhoKnowsWhatJustAsAnExampleQSel. At least the object type as a prefix places it at the beginning where it can be found. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:41 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions After two decades of propounding standard Hungarian notation, I am now dead set against it, for two reasons: A) You have to read past the prefix to find out what anything relates to. IOW, you increase noise at the expense of signal. B) All objects named thus sort poorly. How does it help you if every cbo is prefixed "cbo"? For the past year or so I have used what I call the "object-action" naming scheme. It uses Hungarian notation but as suffix not prefix. This preserves the sort order in a meaningful way. A couple of examples: CustomerInsert_ap - suffix means application procedure (as opposed to system procedure) CustomerSelectByName_fnt - user-defined function that returns a table of customerIDs and names sorted by name (SQL 2000+ only) CustomerFilter_cbo - combo box that filters the form by selected customer (i.e. show only the orders placed by selected customer) Perhaps the main reason that I have moved to this convention is the ease of teaching it to a new hire, and letting her find her way around the database quickly. "Look for the object of interest, followed by the action of interest, and know what you're dealing with by the suffix." In Access 2002+, this convention is especially profitable, because a single "Queries" tab houses sprocs, UDFs and views. Prefixing them all with standard Hungarian prefixes muddies the water, IMO. My convention lets you type "C" and immediately go to all the "Customer" related stuff. Then you can quickly deduce what's available for re-use, and what sort of object it is. Given the overwhelming devotion to standard Hungarian notation, I expect this message to cause lots of flames and rebuttals. That's why we're here, after all :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 4 12:56:32 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:56:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <001001c47a49$f05a5670$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20040804175638.EFV1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> While I pretty much agree with you I have not yet moved to the suffix method. Further I do have a problem with those developers who name things without using abbreviations, such that you end up with CustomerAddressesSortedByWhoKnowsWhatJustAsAnExampleQSel. At least the object type as a prefix places it at the beginning where it can be found. ==============But who standardizes the abbreviations? ;) Susan H. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 4 12:57:42 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:57:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Test for a Particular Reference in Code. Message-ID: Greg, This is from my personal archives... ****************** > If IsBroken is buggy how else can I check the references? For A97, this function can be used: Public Function IsBroken97(ByVal ref As Access.Reference) As Boolean ' Alternative method to check if a reference is broken ' as the IsBroken property cannot be used in Access97. ' ' 2000-03-19. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' Refer to this article at Microsoft Technet: ' ' Article ID: Q186720 ' ' The information in this article applies to: ' Microsoft Access 97 ' ' SYMPTOMS ' In Microsoft Access, IsBroken is a property of the References collection. ' The Microsoft Access Help topic on the Isbroken property states the following: ' ' The IsBroken property returns a Boolean value indicating whether a ' Reference object points to a valid reference in the Windows Registry. ' ' Although this statement is correct, to receive this Boolean value ' you must trap for errors that are generated by the broken reference. ' Also, the IsBroken property becomes True only when the file being referenced ' is deleted and the Microsoft Windows Recycle Bin is emptied. ' This article details the steps necessary to receive the Boolean value. Dim booRefOK As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_IsBroken97 If Len(Dir(ref.FullPath, vbNormal)) > 0 Then booRefOK = Not ref.IsBroken End If Exit_IsBroken97: IsBroken97 = Not booRefOK Exit Function Err_IsBroken97: ' Ignore non existing servers, drives, and paths. Resume Exit_IsBroken97 End Function ****************** -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Test for a Particular Reference in Code. Hi everybody! I'm trying to distribute an app that I've modified and I'm running into references issues at the client's site. It's in Access97 (but not for much longer). I'm having to reference Microsoft Office 8.0 Object Library (mso97.dll) and I have it update the reference through the code. However, if it already is referenced, then I get the error that you can't have a reference with the same name, etc. What I need to do is test to see if this reference already exists. If it does, then don't add it. But I can't figure out how to test for it specifically. Is there a way to test for a particular reference (in this case, the one for the MSOffice 8.0 Obj lib? TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 13:00:12 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:00:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Remember though, that the Hungarian naming convention follows the object model, where the object type it the higher level than the individual object. That suggests a prefix. If a suffix makes you happy, fine ... As long as I don't have to maintain your project. ;-} And of course, grouping by name doesn't handle multiple-use objects very well, like that single subreport that shows up in a dozen reports. How do you name it to connect it to every report? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 9:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Arthur, I agree in principle...in fact, before I was "educated" in common coding practices, I too had "naturally" developed and utilized a naming scheme that employed suffixes rather than prefixes. I don't know if you wanted the likes of me on your side;) ...but there it is. IMHO a standard is a standard and one should work to whatever procedure fits his/her style. The point, I believe, is consistency, not conformity. I'm hopeful that the conversation won't raise to the point of a fanatical flame war. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:41 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions After two decades of propounding standard Hungarian notation, I am now dead set against it, for two reasons: A) You have to read past the prefix to find out what anything relates to. IOW, you increase noise at the expense of signal. B) All objects named thus sort poorly. How does it help you if every cbo is prefixed "cbo"? For the past year or so I have used what I call the "object-action" naming scheme. It uses Hungarian notation but as suffix not prefix. This preserves the sort order in a meaningful way. A couple of examples: CustomerInsert_ap - suffix means application procedure (as opposed to system procedure) CustomerSelectByName_fnt - user-defined function that returns a table of customerIDs and names sorted by name (SQL 2000+ only) CustomerFilter_cbo - combo box that filters the form by selected customer (i.e. show only the orders placed by selected customer) Perhaps the main reason that I have moved to this convention is the ease of teaching it to a new hire, and letting her find her way around the database quickly. "Look for the object of interest, followed by the action of interest, and know what you're dealing with by the suffix." In Access 2002+, this convention is especially profitable, because a single "Queries" tab houses sprocs, UDFs and views. Prefixing them all with standard Hungarian prefixes muddies the water, IMO. My convention lets you type "C" and immediately go to all the "Customer" related stuff. Then you can quickly deduce what's available for re-use, and what sort of object it is. Given the overwhelming devotion to standard Hungarian notation, I expect this message to cause lots of flames and rebuttals. That's why we're here, after all :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Wed Aug 4 12:59:53 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:59:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I also do the same with subreports and subforms. It groups all or the related items together and makes it much easier to maintain IMO. "Porter, Mark" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions 08/04/2004 12:30 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" No flames here, I have made the same change to my naming convention as well. It started with Report-Subreports and Form-Subforms, I was tired of fighting the prefix to find all sub objects to the main object. Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ============================================================================== From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 4 13:00:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:00:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB219@main2.marlow.com> What do you mean by 'details'? If you are referring to data within the tables, then you should really split things into separate fields. If a record is for a 'current phase' of development, then you create a phase of development field. If you are talking about object names.....I would go with your approach. My personal opinion of naming conventions is that you should use what makes sense to you, and the system you are working on. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 7:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? << File: ATT04991.txt >> << File: ATT04992.txt >> Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 4 13:00:44 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:00:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Test for a Particular Reference in Code. Message-ID: More from my Gustav archives:))) ... ***************** Hi Mark > Does anyone know of a way to set references through code, rather than > manually checking the references on each PC? I have searched the KB, but > cannot find a thing. Do you wish to add or to check references? This summer Paul Hobbs asked something similarly (we never got any feedback). Maybe you can get some inspiration from this which checks one specific reference; if you experience that it's the same reference that seems to be dropped from your app, you can check for the GUID of this instead for the GUID of Word: Public Sub CheckWordRef() Dim refA As Reference Dim refW As Reference Dim strGuid As String Dim lngMajor As Long Dim lngMinor As Long strGuid = "{00020905-0000-0000-C000-000000000046}" lngMajor = 8 lngMinor = 1 ' Look for the reference to Word in the database. For Each refA In Application.References If refA.Name = "Word" Then Set refW = refA Exit For End If Next If Not refW Is Nothing Then ' Remove the Reference. References.Remove refW End If On Error Resume Next ' Try adding Word 2000 library. References.AddFromGuid strGuid, lngMajor, lngMinor ' Try adding Word 97 library. ' This will fail if Word 2000 library was added successfully. lngMinor = lngMinor - 1 References.AddFromGuid strGuid, lngMajor, lngMinor Set refA = Nothing Set refW = Nothing End Sub Alternatively, you may verify the references: Public Function VerifyReferences(ByVal booErrorDisplay As Boolean) As Boolean ' Verify Access' external references and re-establish these if possible. ' Uses function IsBroken97(). ' ' 2001-07-29. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim refA As Reference Dim refX As Reference Dim strRefFullPath As String Dim booNotBuiltInRefExists As Boolean Dim booIsBroken As Boolean Dim booRefIsMissing As Boolean Dim strMsgTitle As String Dim strMsgPrompt As String Dim strMsgHeader As String Dim strMsgFooter As String Dim lngMsgStyle As Long ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next ' User oriented error message. strMsgTitle = "Missing support file" strMsgHeader = "One or more supporting files are missing:" & vbCrLf strMsgFooter = vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "Report this to IT support." & vbCrLf strMsgFooter = strMsgFooter & "Program execution cannot continue." lngMsgStyle = vbCritical + vbOKOnly ' Look for the first reference in the database other than ' the built in "Access" and "Visual Basic for Applications". For Each refA In Application.References If refA.BuiltIn = False Then ' At least one not built in reference is in use. booNotBuiltInRefExists = True ' Check if the reference is not broken. If IsBroken97(refA) = False Then ' The first not missing not built in reference is found. Set refX = refA Exit For End If End If Next If booNotBuiltInRefExists = False Then ' Only built in references are in use. ' Nothing more to do. Else If refX Is Nothing Then ' All not built in references are missing. ' Don't remove missing references as there is no way to ' re-establish a reference if its identity is lost. Else ' Remove this not built in reference and add it back to ' force Access to revalidate all references. ' This may or may not rebuild links to missing references. With References strRefFullPath = refX.FullPath .Remove refX .AddFromFile strRefFullPath End With Set refX = Nothing End If ' Check references if any should be missing. ' If so, no attempt to read a reference is done as it most likely ' either is not installed or has been moved to an unknown directory. For Each refA In References booIsBroken = IsBroken97(refA) If booIsBroken = True Then ' Build list of missing files. strMsgPrompt = strMsgPrompt & vbCrLf & refA.FullPath End If booRefIsMissing = booRefIsMissing Or booIsBroken Next ' If any reference is broken, display error message if requested. If booRefIsMissing = True And booErrorDisplay = True Then strMsgPrompt = strMsgHeader & strMsgPrompt & strMsgFooter DoCmd.Beep MsgBox strMsgPrompt, lngMsgStyle, strMsgTitle End If End If Set refA = Nothing VerifyReferences = Not booRefIsMissing End Function Supporting function: Public Function IsBroken97(ByVal ref As Reference) As Boolean ' Alternative method to check if a reference is broken ' as the IsBroken property cannot be used in Access97. ' ' 2000-03-19. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' Refer to this article at Microsoft Technet: ' ' Article ID: Q186720 ' ' The information in this article applies to: ' Microsoft Access 97 ' ' SYMPTOMS ' In Microsoft Access, IsBroken is a property of the References collection. ' The Microsoft Access Help topic on the Isbroken property states the following: ' ' The IsBroken property returns a Boolean value indicating whether a ' Reference object points to a valid reference in the Windows Registry. ' ' Although this statement is correct, to receive this Boolean value ' you must trap for errors that are generated by the broken reference. ' Also, the IsBroken property becomes True only when the file being referenced ' is deleted and the Microsoft Windows Recycle Bin is emptied. ' This article details the steps necessary to receive the Boolean value. Dim booRefOK As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_IsBroken97 If Dir(ref.FullPath) <> vbNullString Then booRefOK = Not ref.IsBroken End If Exit_IsBroken97: IsBroken97 = Not booRefOK Exit Function Err_IsBroken97: ' Ignore non existing servers, drives, and paths. Resume Exit_IsBroken97 End Function Please note that I haven't used these for A2000/2002 - these might behave differently than A97. Also, running any of these functions will leave your app not compiled; this may not cause trouble but you should pay attention. /gustav ***************** -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Test for a Particular Reference in Code. Hi everybody! I'm trying to distribute an app that I've modified and I'm running into references issues at the client's site. It's in Access97 (but not for much longer). I'm having to reference Microsoft Office 8.0 Object Library (mso97.dll) and I have it update the reference through the code. However, if it already is referenced, then I get the error that you can't have a reference with the same name, etc. What I need to do is test to see if this reference already exists. If it does, then don't add it. But I can't figure out how to test for it specifically. Is there a way to test for a particular reference (in this case, the one for the MSOffice 8.0 Obj lib? TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 4 12:00:53 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:00:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB216@main2.marlow.com> There's one of two methods that can be used for Access 2000. One method is to turn the Modal property of your forms to Yes (along with the Popup to Yes, which 97 also needs). However, you can also use the ShowWindow API, again, after you hide the Access window, to show the form again. The 'Always On Top' example database on my site does that, though it also sets the Zorder of the window to -1, which makes the form stay on top of all of the other windows on your desktop, which is probably overkill for what you want. One warning, when hiding Access, reports cannot be previewed. They can be printed, but if previewed, they will show up within the 'hidden' Access window. So if you are going to allow the users to preview reports, you will need to display the Access window for the user (just have the On close event of the reports hide Access again. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Quite amazing, Drew, but when converted to 2k it doesn't go exactly right - or it may be this computer. Anyway, I certainly see what you mean. Thank you. (I'll try to look it on another machine.) That's a very nice looking website. cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 5:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Okay Paul, my website is finally back up. Goto http://www.wolfwares.com and download the MiniCalendar database. It is in the Microsoft Access section, (MiniCalendar3.zip). It's an Access 97 database. Notice that when it starts, the form is on the desktop. No sign of Access at all. To 'show' Access, hit Ctrl-A (same to hide it again). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 10:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 13:04:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:04:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: So how do you name the subreports and subforms that are reused on more than one form or report? Surely you *have* reusable object, right? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com [mailto:jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I also do the same with subreports and subforms. It groups all or the related items together and makes it much easier to maintain IMO. "Porter, Mark" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions 08/04/2004 12:30 PM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" No flames here, I have made the same change to my naming convention as well. It started with Report-Subreports and Form-Subforms, I was tired of fighting the prefix to find all sub objects to the main object. Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ======================================================================== ====== -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 13:05:12 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:05:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Message-ID: You're a masochist then. If I can't persuade the client that they're paying for my knowledge and expertise, then I get a new client. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Hi Roz: You pay the bills and the contractor is the payee. What ever you say goes. No matter how dumb I may feel the client's requests are, if it does not affect the functionality, it is my job to attempt to satisfy them...period. Bottom-line HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 4 13:08:57 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:08:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: ;) The American Society of Mechanical Engineers ASME Y14.38 "Abbreviations and Acronyms" http://asme.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=36&EXTRA_ARG=&CFGNAME= MssFind%2Ecfg&host_id=42&page_id=1068800&query=y14+38&hiword=38+y14+ Mark ...use it religiously in my work. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions While I pretty much agree with you I have not yet moved to the suffix method. Further I do have a problem with those developers who name things without using abbreviations, such that you end up with CustomerAddressesSortedByWhoKnowsWhatJustAsAnExampleQSel. At least the object type as a prefix places it at the beginning where it can be found. ==============But who standardizes the abbreviations? ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 4 13:16:34 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:16:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Text Box Exit Function In-Reply-To: <20040804160039.37722.qmail@web50407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040804181636.RMG1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Me!fieldname doesn't have a value yet -- are you sure you don't mean Me!controlname? Susan H. I am trying to validate the data in a field when the user exits the field. When I use the field's name (me!fieldname) its value is null even though I have entered something into it. Does anyone know how I get the current value of the text box that I just entered the data into? From CMackin at Quiznos.com Wed Aug 4 13:45:49 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:45:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Text Box Exit Function Message-ID: Once the naming issue is resolved, look at the me!controlname.TEXT property, it will have the current value in the textbox -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Text Box Exit Function Me!fieldname doesn't have a value yet -- are you sure you don't mean Me!controlname? Susan H. I am trying to validate the data in a field when the user exits the field. When I use the field's name (me!fieldname) its value is null even though I have entered something into it. Does anyone know how I get the current value of the text box that I just entered the data into? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Wed Aug 4 13:49:15 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:49:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E13C@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> What about creating a report that looks exactly like the form? On a whim. I copied all the controls on a form and pasted them into a report. Changed the background to match the form. Took out the report header and footer. Used the same record source. The subforms were not changed out. When I did a print preview --- it looked like the form! Buttons and all. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark Whittinghill Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form :-( I guess my choice is enable new menus or tell them to live with it? Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > Hi Mark > > OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. > > /gustav > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 4 13:48:57 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:48:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c47a53$b6df53a0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> LOL. A girl after my own heart! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? You're a masochist then. If I can't persuade the client that they're paying for my knowledge and expertise, then I get a new client. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Hi Roz: You pay the bills and the contractor is the payee. What ever you say goes. No matter how dumb I may feel the client's requests are, if it does not affect the functionality, it is my job to attempt to satisfy them...period. Bottom-line HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 4 13:50:04 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:50:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001801c47a53$df1d7360$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Uh... Did I forget to mention... ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You surprised me John:) I would have bet money that your response would have included a reference as to how it would impact a framework;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Arthur, While I pretty much agree with you I have not yet moved to the suffix method. Further I do have a problem with those developers who name things without using abbreviations, such that you end up with CustomerAddressesSortedByWhoKnowsWhatJustAsAnExampleQSel. At least the object type as a prefix places it at the beginning where it can be found. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:41 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions After two decades of propounding standard Hungarian notation, I am now dead set against it, for two reasons: A) You have to read past the prefix to find out what anything relates to. IOW, you increase noise at the expense of signal. B) All objects named thus sort poorly. How does it help you if every cbo is prefixed "cbo"? For the past year or so I have used what I call the "object-action" naming scheme. It uses Hungarian notation but as suffix not prefix. This preserves the sort order in a meaningful way. A couple of examples: CustomerInsert_ap - suffix means application procedure (as opposed to system procedure) CustomerSelectByName_fnt - user-defined function that returns a table of customerIDs and names sorted by name (SQL 2000+ only) CustomerFilter_cbo - combo box that filters the form by selected customer (i.e. show only the orders placed by selected customer) Perhaps the main reason that I have moved to this convention is the ease of teaching it to a new hire, and letting her find her way around the database quickly. "Look for the object of interest, followed by the action of interest, and know what you're dealing with by the suffix." In Access 2002+, this convention is especially profitable, because a single "Queries" tab houses sprocs, UDFs and views. Prefixing them all with standard Hungarian prefixes muddies the water, IMO. My convention lets you type "C" and immediately go to all the "Customer" related stuff. Then you can quickly deduce what's available for re-use, and what sort of object it is. Given the overwhelming devotion to standard Hungarian notation, I expect this message to cause lots of flames and rebuttals. That's why we're here, after all :) Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Wed Aug 4 14:00:45 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 15:00:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form In-Reply-To: <001201c47a4a$1d386420$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Message-ID: <000f01c47a55$5c0b74c0$0201a8c0@COA3> Or, desing a report with a BMP (gif, jpeg, whatever) of the form as backround. Place the data text boxes in the same spots, and have them preview that. Steve PS: LOL @ >OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Whittinghill Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form :-( I guess my choice is enable new menus or tell them to live with it? Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > Hi Mark > > OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. > > /gustav > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From CMackin at Quiznos.com Wed Aug 4 14:14:47 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:14:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form Message-ID: If you go that route then you can simply right click the form in the database window and Save As a report. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form What about creating a report that looks exactly like the form? On a whim. I copied all the controls on a form and pasted them into a report. Changed the background to match the form. Took out the report header and footer. Used the same record source. The subforms were not changed out. When I did a print preview --- it looked like the form! Buttons and all. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark Whittinghill Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form :-( I guess my choice is enable new menus or tell them to live with it? Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > Hi Mark > > OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. > > /gustav > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Wed Aug 4 14:48:40 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:48:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form References: Message-ID: <001401c47a5c$0b867e80$2201a8c0@PASCAL> I brought up the idea of making a report, but the client decided they really didn't need this anyway. They don't have access to the db window and stock menus, otherwise this wouldn't be an issue. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mackin, Christopher" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > If you go that route then you can simply right click the form in the database window and Save As a report. > > -Chris Mackin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > What about creating a report that looks exactly like the form? > On a whim. I copied all the controls on a form and pasted them into a report. > Changed the background to match the form. Took out the report header and footer. Used the same record source. The subforms were not changed out. > When I did a print preview --- it looked like the form! Buttons and all. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark > Whittinghill > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > :-( > > I guess my choice is enable new menus or tell them to live with it? > > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:07 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > Hi Mark > > > > OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. > > > > /gustav > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 4 15:06:50 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:06:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <20040804175638.EFV1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <01a701c47a5e$94f7d180$6601a8c0@rock> A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. However, I prefer a tack that says "abbreviations are unnecessary". For example, when any update query hits more than one table, in my book it's called a molecular object, comprised of two or more atomic objects. Any procedure that hits more than one table (i.e. hit = update, delete or insert) is by definition flawed; it ought instead to invoke as many other atomic procedures as are required. These rules keep naming conventions simple, and even better, follow the standard laws of procedural and object programming. IMO. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions While I pretty much agree with you I have not yet moved to the suffix method. Further I do have a problem with those developers who name things without using abbreviations, such that you end up with CustomerAddressesSortedByWhoKnowsWhatJustAsAnExampleQSel. At least the object type as a prefix places it at the beginning where it can be found. ==============But who standardizes the abbreviations? ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 15:12:41 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:12:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form Message-ID: You do realize that printing a form is entirely different from printing a report, right? By default, a form prints one page for every record. Is that the intent?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mark Whittinghill [mailto:mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form I brought up the idea of making a report, but the client decided they really didn't need this anyway. They don't have access to the db window and stock menus, otherwise this wouldn't be an issue. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mackin, Christopher" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > If you go that route then you can simply right click the form in the database window and Save As a report. > > -Chris Mackin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > What about creating a report that looks exactly like the form? On a > whim. I copied all the controls on a form and pasted them into a report. > Changed the background to match the form. Took out the report header > and footer. Used the same record source. The subforms were not changed out. > When I did a print preview --- it looked like the form! Buttons and > all. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark > Whittinghill > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > :-( > > I guess my choice is enable new menus or tell them to live with it? > > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:07 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > Hi Mark > > > > OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. > > > > /gustav > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 4 15:15:16 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:15:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <01a701c47a5e$94f7d180$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040804201519.DJKK1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the list of abbreviations than coding. ;) Susan H. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 15:22:09 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:22:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Susan, I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the list of abbreviations than coding. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 4 15:31:22 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:31:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040804203124.ENDX1792.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I'm just talking about the actual object name abbreviations Charlotte. ;) Susan H. I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust From MPorter at acsalaska.com Wed Aug 4 15:37:48 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:37:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <635B80FE6C7D5A409586A6A110D97D170E4BB9@ACSANCHOR.corp.acsalaska.com> As do I. Do you know how many derivitaves of 'Account' I have to deal with? It's amazing how creative people can be. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Susan, > > I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming > convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. > > One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write > standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're > experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, > and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others > down the road > if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects > and variables > are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like > i, j, k, l > m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat > someone to > a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses > prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, > but it won't take long to learn to translate. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:15 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > > > A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. > > ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the > list of abbreviations than coding. ;) > > Susan H. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > *********************************************************************************** 4/8/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 15:48:45 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:48:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I'm talking about those too. When you're working in code and you can't tell by the name of the object what it is, you have to backtrack and figure it out. In the database window, you can tell by the tab group, but you don't have that luxury in code, so debugging code that refers to opening a recordset on an object named January causes a little trip back to the DB window to see what you're dealing with. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just talking about the actual object name abbreviations Charlotte. ;) Susan H. I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 15:49:58 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:49:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: LOL ... Especially when they're fields in the same table!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions As do I. Do you know how many derivitaves of 'Account' I have to deal with? It's amazing how creative people can be. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Susan, > > I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming > convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. > > One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write > standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're > experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, > and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the > road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects > and variables > are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like > i, j, k, l > m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat > someone to > a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses > prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, > but it won't take long to learn to translate. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:15 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > > > A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. > > ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the > list of abbreviations than coding. ;) > > Susan H. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ************************************************************************ *********** 4/8/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 4 15:57:33 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:57:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040804205737.NGJT8009.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Are we talking about the same thing? I'm not talking about omitting the prefixes -- I'm talking about abbreviating Customer, Invoice, Names, Employees, etc... So instead of frmEmployees, you might have frmEmp You'd need a convention for the convention -- which is OK -- companies should do what works, but for the individual? Nah... unless that's what works for him/her. JC was complaining about developers that don't abbreviate, and personally, I'd find it a pia. If I had to take over an app full of frmEmp's I'd be annoyed with the convention myself. I'd much rather deal with full words. Susan H. I'm talking about those too. When you're working in code and you can't tell by the name of the object what it is, you have to backtrack and figure it out. In the database window, you can tell by the tab group, but you don't have that luxury in code, so debugging code that refers to opening a recordset on an object named January causes a little trip back to the DB window to see what you're dealing with. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just talking about the actual object name abbreviations Charlotte. ;) Susan H. I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 16:07:16 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:07:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: No, we're not and it's probably my fault. I'm on the fence about abbreviations, as opposed to tags or prefixes. We use Rpt to abbreviate "report" in our object names, like "frmDailyRpt", and I'm lazy enought to prefer that to "frmDailyReport", but as long as they're consistent and readable, I'm OK with them. On the other hand, "rptDailyRpt" would look silly, so we use "rptDailyReport"! Either way, it's readable. It's the ambiguous abbreviations that are crazy-making: Dat (is that data or date or a typo or something I haven't thought of?), Wk (is that week or work or wok or someone's initials?), etc. That's where it is up to the company to determine the standards to make sure they're consistent. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Are we talking about the same thing? I'm not talking about omitting the prefixes -- I'm talking about abbreviating Customer, Invoice, Names, Employees, etc... So instead of frmEmployees, you might have frmEmp You'd need a convention for the convention -- which is OK -- companies should do what works, but for the individual? Nah... unless that's what works for him/her. JC was complaining about developers that don't abbreviate, and personally, I'd find it a pia. If I had to take over an app full of frmEmp's I'd be annoyed with the convention myself. I'd much rather deal with full words. Susan H. I'm talking about those too. When you're working in code and you can't tell by the name of the object what it is, you have to backtrack and figure it out. In the database window, you can tell by the tab group, but you don't have that luxury in code, so debugging code that refers to opening a recordset on an object named January causes a little trip back to the DB window to see what you're dealing with. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just talking about the actual object name abbreviations Charlotte. ;) Susan H. I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 4 16:14:39 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:14:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB21D@main2.marlow.com> What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Susan, I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the list of abbreviations than coding. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Wed Aug 4 16:41:07 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:41:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form References: Message-ID: <004a01c47a6b$c0e26b90$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Charlotte, I do realize that printing a form is different, though I never really studied it before today. The user was doing this from the file menu, and after I explained that I couldn't just easily add a Back button to print preview, she just dropped the matter. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:12 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > You do realize that printing a form is entirely different from printing > a report, right? By default, a form prints one page for every record. > Is that the intent?? > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Whittinghill [mailto:mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > I brought up the idea of making a report, but the client decided they > really didn't need this anyway. They don't have access to the db window > and stock menus, otherwise this wouldn't be an issue. > > Mark Whittinghill > Symphony Information Services > 763-391-7400 > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mackin, Christopher" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:14 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > If you go that route then you can simply right click the form in the > database window and Save As a report. > > > > -Chris Mackin > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:49 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > > > > > What about creating a report that looks exactly like the form? On a > > whim. I copied all the controls on a form and pasted them into a > report. > > Changed the background to match the form. Took out the report header > > and > footer. Used the same record source. The subforms were not changed > out. > > When I did a print preview --- it looked like the form! Buttons and > > all. > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark > > Whittinghill > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:40 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > > > :-( > > > > I guess my choice is enable new menus or tell them to live with it? > > > > Mark Whittinghill > > Symphony Information Services > > 763-391-7400 > > mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:07 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Print Previewing a form > > > > > > > Hi Mark > > > > > > OK. Then you are in trouble, I guess. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 4 16:32:57 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 17:32:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040804213259.GBLH1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> It's the ambiguous abbreviations that are crazy-making: Dat (is that data or date or a typo or something I haven't thought of?), Wk (is that week or work or wok or someone's initials?), etc. That's where it is up to the company to determine the standards to make sure they're consistent. ======I totally agree. If the company wants them, make the developers use them consistently -- but don't hand one over to me! :) Unless of course, you're going to pay me to memorize them all before I even start. You might as well just put me in the looney bin before I start. :) Susan H. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 16:37:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:37:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Inherently? Nothing. But when you have a long routine (yes, I know long routines are bad and I don't build them that way, but I still have to deal with them) that is passing I into another function or doing some math with it, having no clear indication of the datatype in the variable name makes it more likely that you'll have trouble debugging problems that involve that variable. I believe in saving work down the road by taking precautions up front. Like I said, I'm lazy. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Susan, I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the list of abbreviations than coding. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 4 16:39:07 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:39:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: >>You might as well just put me in the looney bin before I start. :) Um ... No comment! LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's the ambiguous abbreviations that are crazy-making: Dat (is that data or date or a typo or something I haven't thought of?), Wk (is that week or work or wok or someone's initials?), etc. That's where it is up to the company to determine the standards to make sure they're consistent. ======I totally agree. If the company wants them, make the developers use them consistently -- but don't hand one over to me! :) Unless of course, you're going to pay me to memorize them all before I even start. You might as well just put me in the looney bin before I start. :) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 4 20:25:57 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:25:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Charlotte: I am speaking from the perspective of many of my clients. These are government organizations and their standards are very specific. It is either their way or the highway. With that said, there are of course variations within a theme but the latitude or creativity the developer can exercise is very limited by the technical standards manuals or by the senior government ITS project manager. You can bet that their view of artistic license is on the conservative side. I had the pleasure of writing a document on how a reference document could be written. It was later accepted as a standard. From that day on, all fonts, weight, indentation of any application manuals had to adhere the standard. All submissions were marked up or down by compliance. That process goes doubly for coding. Every table, view, stored procedure field, key and foreign key name must comply. So many lines of explanation for every piece of code and so on. There are many good companies, with good developers out there. If one does not what to comply there is no point in bidding on a contract. I have witnessed a perspective contractor, with an otherwise, perfect bid loss a contract on just a missed signature. It is definitely a buyer market and government clients are extremely rigid...On the other hand they pay very well. ...Betweeen $75 and $140 per hour which can be an excellent way go on even a small three month contract. :-) I may no be able to be bought but I can be rented. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? You're a masochist then. If I can't persuade the client that they're paying for my knowledge and expertise, then I get a new client. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Hi Roz: You pay the bills and the contractor is the payee. What ever you say goes. No matter how dumb I may feel the client's requests are, if it does not affect the functionality, it is my job to attempt to satisfy them...period. Bottom-line HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 4 20:35:29 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:35:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB21D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: It is only wrong if you have in the middle of the for loop something like: if I = 12 and J = 32 then goto faraway :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Susan, I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the list of abbreviations than coding. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 4 20:35:30 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:35:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <20040804213259.GBLH1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: I agree. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 2:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's the ambiguous abbreviations that are crazy-making: Dat (is that data or date or a typo or something I haven't thought of?), Wk (is that week or work or wok or someone's initials?), etc. That's where it is up to the company to determine the standards to make sure they're consistent. ======I totally agree. If the company wants them, make the developers use them consistently -- but don't hand one over to me! :) Unless of course, you're going to pay me to memorize them all before I even start. You might as well just put me in the looney bin before I start. :) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Aug 4 20:55:47 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:55:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes References: Message-ID: <007901c47a8f$53afd200$48619a89@DDICK> Demo sent off list DD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:23 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes > I have a few minutes for this really interesting idea now. > > I have the field in the table, and the data type is Number. > > 1. I am not sure what is meant by "set the value for IsDeleted in that > record to -1" (By a bit a coding?) > > 2. And - sorry - this escapes me too - "Then the form refreshes to NOT show > records where IsDeleted =-1" (Via a query?) > > Be very pleased if you could let me know. Cheers paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:43 AM > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 5 04:06:14 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:06:14 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1088648045.20040805110614@cactus.dk> Hi Jim > I had the pleasure of writing a document on how a reference document could > be written. It was later accepted as a standard. From that day on, all > fonts, weight, indentation of any application manuals had to adhere the > standard. All submissions were marked up or down by compliance. > That process goes doubly for coding. Every table, view, stored procedure > field, key and foreign key name must comply. So many lines of explanation > for every piece of code and so on. Sounds like a decent piece of work! Could it be (revised and) brought to the dba site as a guide? I mean, not (necessarily) a guide to follow, but to how such a guide could look and what you need to specify? > There are many good companies, with good developers out there. If one does > not what to comply there is no point in bidding on a contract. I have > witnessed a perspective contractor, with an otherwise, perfect bid loss a > contract on just a missed signature. What are you telling here? No signature, no contract - but why did the signature miss? /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 5 03:51:08 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:51:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB21D@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB21D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <487741551.20040805105108@cactus.dk> Hi Drew > What's wrong with: > For I=1 to 50 > > Next I You don't need the last I; Next will do. /gustav From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Thu Aug 5 04:15:17 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:15:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: Thanks very much, Darren. Look forward to looking inside soon. -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 2:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Demo sent off list DD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:23 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes > I have a few minutes for this really interesting idea now. > > I have the field in the table, and the data type is Number. > > 1. I am not sure what is meant by "set the value for IsDeleted in that > record to -1" (By a bit a coding?) > > 2. And - sorry - this escapes me too - "Then the form refreshes to NOT show > records where IsDeleted =-1" (Via a query?) > > Be very pleased if you could let me know. Cheers paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:43 AM > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu Aug 5 08:30:59 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:30:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB0865065899@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> >You don't need the last I; Next will do. While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions --------------Please open with care!------------ This message has bypassed some of our spam filtering rules. This message was scanned for viruses and executable code has been stripped. --------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Drew > What's wrong with: > For I=1 to 50 > > Next I You don't need the last I; Next will do. /gustav -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Thu Aug 5 08:41:58 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:41:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Message-ID: Thanks, Drew, all noted. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window There's one of two methods that can be used for Access 2000. One method is to turn the Modal property of your forms to Yes (along with the Popup to Yes, which 97 also needs). However, you can also use the ShowWindow API, again, after you hide the Access window, to show the form again. The 'Always On Top' example database on my site does that, though it also sets the Zorder of the window to -1, which makes the form stay on top of all of the other windows on your desktop, which is probably overkill for what you want. One warning, when hiding Access, reports cannot be previewed. They can be printed, but if previewed, they will show up within the 'hidden' Access window. So if you are going to allow the users to preview reports, you will need to display the Access window for the user (just have the On close event of the reports hide Access again. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Quite amazing, Drew, but when converted to 2k it doesn't go exactly right - or it may be this computer. Anyway, I certainly see what you mean. Thank you. (I'll try to look it on another machine.) That's a very nice looking website. cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 5:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Okay Paul, my website is finally back up. Goto http://www.wolfwares.com and download the MiniCalendar database. It is in the Microsoft Access section, (MiniCalendar3.zip). It's an Access 97 database. Notice that when it starts, the form is on the desktop. No sign of Access at all. To 'show' Access, hit Ctrl-A (same to hide it again). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 10:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Charlotte I'm using your code and it works well, thank you. But, yes, I am trying to achieve something else, as you say. I want to give the user a form and nothing else - but I need to be able to go in and out myself to make adjustments et al. Is this something you could advise on please? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window I don't quite understand what you're trying to do. The database window is only visible from within the application, so you put the code into public functions and create an autokey to trigger it, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. If you're talking about hiding something else, like the main window, that's an entirely different thing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Darren That is good ... but how can I hide Window/Unhide? I suppose I could put Charlotte's public function in another db and trigger from there? Sorry, so many questions to begin (or end) your day. Hope the winter's ok there. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window Hi Paul In Charlotte's code below replace DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowhide with DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowUnhide ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rodgers" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > Interesting, Charlotte, but what happens when you want to Unhide so > you can > work on the database? > > I always use the StartUp checkboxes myself - but then I am usually > always around when the databases are being used. > > I can see it there are many times when it would be useful to have only > the required form showing, and Unhide unavailable too. So I will await > keenly for an answer. All the best > > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Try this: > > Public Function HideDBWindow() > On Error GoTo HideDBWindow_err > ' select a tab in the Database Window > DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True > ' Hide the database window > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide > HideDBWindow_exit: > Exit Function > HideDBWindow_err: > MsgBox Err.Description & " (#" & Err & ")" > Resume HideDBWindow_exit > End Function > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:46 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Programmatically Hide the DATABASE Window > > > Hello everyone, again. It's FRIDAY! > > Pretty much got the menu bar working (one issue with the "menu Bar"'s > control box not showing up after being disabled then enabled...but > that's not the point here). > > I want to hide the main database window (the one with the queries, > tables, forms, etc., to be exact) on startup, but not using the > Startup's checkbox, but through vb. The DBA Archives dance around the > issue, but I can't find where it's addressed. Is there a way to do > this through code or am I stuck with using the checkbox in the Startup > menu? I'm using Access97 in this app. > > Thanks! > > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 5 08:47:37 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:47:37 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB0865065899@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> References: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB0865065899@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <9225530721.20040805154737@cactus.dk> Hi Brett >>You don't need the last I; Next will do. > While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for > readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with > nested loops. A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? Is that you Brett? /gustav PS: --------------Please open with care!------------ This message will bypass some of your spam filtering rules. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > --------------Please open with care!------------ This message has > bypassed some of our spam filtering rules. > This message was scanned for viruses and executable code has been > stripped. > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Hi Drew >> What's wrong with: >> For I=1 to 50 >> >> Next I > You don't need the last I; Next will do. > /gustav From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Thu Aug 5 09:10:34 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:10:34 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Message-ID: Thanks very much, John. It looks very good. -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes Paul, The way I handle this is to have a control on the form which exposes (is bound to) that field in the table, and is called the same thing on every form. In my case it is a Boolean value in the table, and thus a checkbox on the form. The checkboxes are always named chkActive and chkTrash on my forms (in my code). The code that intercepts the delete has access to the form. When the decision to actually perform the "delete" is made, MY code simply clears the active and sets the trash by programmatically manipulating those controls on the form. If you are using a "deleted" field and a text box called txtDeleted then the code would look something like: me!txtDeleted = -1 '(which is the numeric value for True By The Way) Me.dirty = false '(which saves that changed data) Me.Requery 'To cause the form to no longer display the "deleted" record. The form's query has a where clause Select MyData >From MyTable Where Deleted = False Since you just set Deleted = true and requeried the form, the data "disappears" One important thing here though is to NOT try and just capture a delete button click. You should use the BeforeDelete event in the form. In that you ask the question "are you sure", then you cancel the delete (you don't want a delete really happening) and you run the code that sets the Deleted text box, saves the change and requeries the form. The reason I caution against simply providing a delete button and trying to capture that click is that a record can be deleted by selecting the record and using the menu at the top (if the menu is exposed), selecting a record and hitting the delete key, etc. You want to capture ALL attempts to delete the data through the form regardless of how they figure out to perform that delete. Capturing the BeforeDelete event and doing it there guarantees that no deletes will be performed manually through that form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Coding for backing up deletes I have a few minutes for this really interesting idea now. I have the field in the table, and the data type is Number. 1. I am not sure what is meant by "set the value for IsDeleted in that record to -1" (By a bit a coding?) 2. And - sorry - this escapes me too - "Then the form refreshes to NOT show records where IsDeleted =-1" (Via a query?) Be very pleased if you could let me know. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:43 AM -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu Aug 5 09:19:12 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:19:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589A@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> > A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? > Is that you Brett? Um, take a moment to read my response before jumping all over it. I said: > Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing > with nested loops. And yes, it does make a difference, even with a single loop. I don't have to scroll up a page of code to find the loop variable name, hence improved readability. But folks, Gustav is absolutely correct. It is not NECESSARY to specify the variable name in a Next statement. Nor is it NECESSARY to comment your code or use consistent naming conventions. Some of us just do these things for our own *special* reasons ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Hi Brett >>You don't need the last I; Next will do. > While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for > readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing > with nested loops. A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? Is that you Brett? /gustav PS: --------------Please open with care!------------ This message will bypass some of your spam filtering rules. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav > Brock > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > Hi Drew >> What's wrong with: >> For I=1 to 50 >> >> Next I > You don't need the last I; Next will do. > /gustav -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Aug 5 09:30:06 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 07:30:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <1088648045.20040805110614@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav: I will look around and see if I have a copy of the standards document, remove any direct references to the government and it can then be uploaded. It is actually only a few pages long. It was not that the lack of a signature lost the contract, because the contractor was well known to the contract review group...it was just a silly over-sight, that could have been easily rectified. It was that virtually anything could have lost a contractor's application bid, or any contractor, even though the contractor in question was a very competent applicant. My main issue was that competence and capability was not being used as the primary decision guide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 2:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Hi Jim > I had the pleasure of writing a document on how a reference document could > be written. It was later accepted as a standard. From that day on, all > fonts, weight, indentation of any application manuals had to adhere the > standard. All submissions were marked up or down by compliance. > That process goes doubly for coding. Every table, view, stored procedure > field, key and foreign key name must comply. So many lines of explanation > for every piece of code and so on. Sounds like a decent piece of work! Could it be (revised and) brought to the dba site as a guide? I mean, not (necessarily) a guide to follow, but to how such a guide could look and what you need to specify? > There are many good companies, with good developers out there. If one does > not what to comply there is no point in bidding on a contract. I have > witnessed a perspective contractor, with an otherwise, perfect bid loss a > contract on just a missed signature. What are you telling here? No signature, no contract - but why did the signature miss? /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From GregSmith at starband.net Thu Aug 5 09:57:52 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:57:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1534.216.43.21.235.1091717872.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi everyone... Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier post(s) about references and how to find broken ones (I don't have my list here at work so I don't have all the responses). I still have the references issue. And it may be because of how I'm starting the program or how I have the references set. There is only one right now that is giving me the PITA, and it's to mso97.dll in the Office directory. Hard to test that one too, because if you delete it, Access won't start. I can use the References.AddFromFile(...) code to set the reference. But there's a catch-22...if I don't have a reference to the MS Office 8.0 Object library, then the code: Dim cbr as CommandBar fails just before I can set the reference using: SetRef = References.AddFromFile("c:\program files\msoffice97\office\mso97.dll") Actually, in REAL life, I don't like using hard coded paths because in the other computers, who's to say they use this same path. And I just KNOW I'm going to run into this again because within the month I'm converting their entire system to Access XP. So, being more realistic...should I just trap the stinking error if the reference already exists and go on or is there a better philosophy about doing this altogether? I would really HATE to have to go onsite and SET each computer's individual references to the correct ones. THAT would redefine PITA. Probably close to 50 compters. Blech. Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 5 10:01:52 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:01:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589A@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> References: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589A@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <11829985466.20040805170152@cactus.dk> Hi Brett OK, it's not Friday yet but I did read what you wrote: especially. >> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing >> with nested loops. Had you written: >> Makes a huge difference when dealing with nested loops. I would have been silent. So, you would prefer the syntax: If I = 2 Then ' Do stuff End If I Now, did I qualify for joining Arthur's "Club of Pendants"?? /gustav >> A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? >> Is that you Brett? > Um, take a moment to read my response before jumping all over it. I > said: >> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing >> with nested loops. > And yes, it does make a difference, even with a single loop. I don't > have to scroll up a page of code to find the loop variable name, hence > improved readability. > But folks, Gustav is absolutely correct. It is not NECESSARY to specify > the variable name in a Next statement. Nor is it NECESSARY to comment > your code or use consistent naming conventions. Some of us just do > these things for our own *special* reasons ;-) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:48 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > Hi Brett >>>You don't need the last I; Next will do. >> While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for >> readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing >> with nested loops. > A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? > Is that you Brett? > /gustav > PS: > --------------Please open with care!------------ This message will > bypass some of your spam filtering rules. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav >> Brock >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Hi Drew >>> What's wrong with: >>> For I=1 to 50 >>> >>> Next I >> You don't need the last I; Next will do. >> /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 5 10:07:37 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:07:37 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16430331374.20040805170737@cactus.dk> Hi Jim > I will look around and see if I have a copy of the standards document, > remove any direct references to the government and it can then be uploaded. > It is actually only a few pages long. Great! Is Susan still the editor in charge? > It was not that the lack of a signature lost the contract, because the > contractor was well known to the contract review group...it was just a silly > over-sight, that could have been easily rectified. It was that virtually > anything could have lost a contractor's application bid, or any contractor, > even though the contractor in question was a very competent applicant. My > main issue was that competence and capability was not being used as the > primary decision guide. OK, now I got your point. And it is right, people sometimes forget that the client's primary decision guides can be quite different from what you think. /gustav >> I had the pleasure of writing a document on how a reference document could >> be written. It was later accepted as a standard. From that day on, all >> fonts, weight, indentation of any application manuals had to adhere the >> standard. All submissions were marked up or down by compliance. >> That process goes doubly for coding. Every table, view, stored procedure >> field, key and foreign key name must comply. So many lines of explanation >> for every piece of code and so on. > Sounds like a decent piece of work! Could it be (revised and) brought > to the dba site as a guide? I mean, not (necessarily) a guide to > follow, but to how such a guide could look and what you need to > specify? >> There are many good companies, with good developers out there. If one does >> not what to comply there is no point in bidding on a contract. I have >> witnessed a perspective contractor, with an otherwise, perfect bid loss a >> contract on just a missed signature. > What are you telling here? No signature, no contract - but why did the > signature miss? > /gustav From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu Aug 5 10:55:05 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:55:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589C@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> > I would have been silent. Wow! I actually found something that would silence Gustav. Gotta make a note of that... ;-) > So, you would prefer the syntax: > If I = 2 Then > ' Do stuff > End If I Two points here: First of all, that's not valid VB(A) syntax, so it's pretty hard to truly comment on what I "prefer", since I couldn't have possibly used that construct and formulated an opinion based on experience. Right??? However, this is an easy one since your example is clearly not analogous to what I stated. A For...Next loop corresponds to a single loop variable. If statements, Do...While loops, etc. are tied to conditions (I = 2, strLastName = "Jones", etc.), not variables. If I place the letter I next to the End If, it isn't very helpful since it is the condition (I = 2) that is the basis of the code block. Repeating the entire condition string at the bottom of the block would be far too wordy and the code maintainance required would outweigh its benefit. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Hi Brett OK, it's not Friday yet but I did read what you wrote: especially. >> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. Had you written: >> Makes a huge difference when dealing with nested loops. I would have been silent. So, you would prefer the syntax: If I = 2 Then ' Do stuff End If I Now, did I qualify for joining Arthur's "Club of Pendants"?? /gustav >> A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? >> Is that you Brett? > Um, take a moment to read my response before jumping all over it. I > said: >> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. > And yes, it does make a difference, even with a single loop. I don't > have to scroll up a page of code to find the loop variable name, hence > improved readability. > But folks, Gustav is absolutely correct. It is not NECESSARY to > specify the variable name in a Next statement. Nor is it NECESSARY to > comment your code or use consistent naming conventions. Some of us > just do these things for our own *special* reasons ;-) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav > Brock > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:48 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > Hi Brett >>>You don't need the last I; Next will do. >> While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for >> readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing >> with nested loops. > A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? > Is that you Brett? > /gustav > PS: > --------------Please open with care!------------ This message will > bypass some of your spam filtering rules. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav >> Brock >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Hi Drew >>> What's wrong with: >>> For I=1 to 50 >>> >>> Next I >> You don't need the last I; Next will do. >> /gustav -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 5 11:22:54 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 12:22:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB21D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <009c01c47b08$764b2ed0$6601a8c0@rock> Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 5 11:57:05 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 18:57:05 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589C@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> References: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589C@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <3236898437.20040805185705@cactus.dk> Hi Brett >> I would have been silent. > Wow! I actually found something that would silence Gustav. Gotta make > a note of that... ;-) >> So, you would prefer the syntax: >> If I = 2 Then >> ' Do stuff >> End If I > Two points here: > First of all, that's not valid VB(A) syntax, so it's pretty hard to > truly comment on what I "prefer", since I couldn't have possibly used > that construct and formulated an opinion based on experience. Right??? Of course. I was moving along the tangent of Arthur's notes about "revised" syntax on the dba-tech list. > However, this is an easy one since your example is clearly not analogous > to what I stated. > A For...Next loop corresponds to a single loop variable. If statements, > Do...While loops, etc. are tied to conditions (I = 2, strLastName = > "Jones", etc.), not variables. If I place the letter I next to the End > If, it isn't very helpful since it is the condition (I = 2) that is the > basis of the code block. You are right about the Do .. Until loop. However, I find it very analogous to For I = 1 To 50 ' Do stuff Next I Also While .. Wend doesn't use it. Would you like: While N < 50 ' Do stuff Wend N > Repeating the entire condition string at the bottom of the block would > be far too wordy and the code maintainance required would outweigh its > benefit. Certainly. But I have thought about the Next (I) syntax. Though I seldom use nested loops and - when doing so - have found it very easy to keep track of the loops (I mean: one is indented inside another which is indented inside a third etc) I think that Next alone is more safe as it complete eliminates these classic typo errors: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next J or: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next I Using For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next Next prevents and completely eliminates these errors. And I have yet to see a code example where this could confuse a decent programmer. To cut it out: How could the nested For/For/For .. Next/Next/Next loops ever cause an error? /gustav > OK, it's not Friday yet but I did read what you wrote: especially. >>> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. > Had you written: >>> Makes a huge difference when dealing with nested loops. > I would have been silent. > So, you would prefer the syntax: > If I = 2 Then > ' Do stuff > End If I > Now, did I qualify for joining Arthur's "Club of Pendants"?? > /gustav >>> A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? >>> Is that you Brett? >> Um, take a moment to read my response before jumping all over it. I >> said: >>> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. >> And yes, it does make a difference, even with a single loop. I don't >> have to scroll up a page of code to find the loop variable name, hence >> improved readability. >> But folks, Gustav is absolutely correct. It is not NECESSARY to >> specify the variable name in a Next statement. Nor is it NECESSARY to >> comment your code or use consistent naming conventions. Some of us >> just do these things for our own *special* reasons ;-) >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav >> Brock >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:48 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Hi Brett >>>>You don't need the last I; Next will do. >>> While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for >>> readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing >>> with nested loops. >> A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? >> Is that you Brett? >> /gustav >> PS: >> --------------Please open with care!------------ This message will >> bypass some of your spam filtering rules. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav >>> Brock >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >>> Hi Drew >>>> What's wrong with: >>>> For I=1 to 50 >>>> >>>> Next I >>> You don't need the last I; Next will do. >>> /gustav From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 5 13:06:02 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:06:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <009c01c47b08$764b2ed0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040805180602.CCG1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I think is very typical of developers. I've found tech editors hate it and when generally make me rename my variable. They can be real sticklers. Susan H. Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 13:06:16 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:06:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Message-ID: Don't get me started on government contracts. I've had one since last year and have yet to be able to deliver the first project. They don't have time to tell me what they need and the purchase order expires at the end of August!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Hi Charlotte: I am speaking from the perspective of many of my clients. These are government organizations and their standards are very specific. It is either their way or the highway. With that said, there are of course variations within a theme but the latitude or creativity the developer can exercise is very limited by the technical standards manuals or by the senior government ITS project manager. You can bet that their view of artistic license is on the conservative side. I had the pleasure of writing a document on how a reference document could be written. It was later accepted as a standard. From that day on, all fonts, weight, indentation of any application manuals had to adhere the standard. All submissions were marked up or down by compliance. That process goes doubly for coding. Every table, view, stored procedure field, key and foreign key name must comply. So many lines of explanation for every piece of code and so on. There are many good companies, with good developers out there. If one does not what to comply there is no point in bidding on a contract. I have witnessed a perspective contractor, with an otherwise, perfect bid loss a contract on just a missed signature. It is definitely a buyer market and government clients are extremely rigid...On the other hand they pay very well. ...Betweeen $75 and $140 per hour which can be an excellent way go on even a small three month contract. :-) I may no be able to be bought but I can be rented. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? You're a masochist then. If I can't persuade the client that they're paying for my knowledge and expertise, then I get a new client. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Hi Roz: You pay the bills and the contractor is the payee. What ever you say goes. No matter how dumb I may feel the client's requests are, if it does not affect the functionality, it is my job to attempt to satisfy them...period. Bottom-line HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 13:08:04 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:08:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: It's also supposed to be faster because Access doesn't have to attempt to figure out what to increment. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 5:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >You don't need the last I; Next will do. While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions --------------Please open with care!------------ This message has bypassed some of our spam filtering rules. This message was scanned for viruses and executable code has been stripped. --------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Drew > What's wrong with: > For I=1 to 50 > > Next I You don't need the last I; Next will do. /gustav ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 13:11:17 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:11:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 Message-ID: Greg, It is logical that you cannot declare any objects before you verify the references. Even if the Office library isn't the one that's broken, you need to test the references before you do *anything* else, including declare object variables as anything but Object. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:58 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 Hi everyone... Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier post(s) about references and how to find broken ones (I don't have my list here at work so I don't have all the responses). I still have the references issue. And it may be because of how I'm starting the program or how I have the references set. There is only one right now that is giving me the PITA, and it's to mso97.dll in the Office directory. Hard to test that one too, because if you delete it, Access won't start. I can use the References.AddFromFile(...) code to set the reference. But there's a catch-22...if I don't have a reference to the MS Office 8.0 Object library, then the code: Dim cbr as CommandBar fails just before I can set the reference using: SetRef = References.AddFromFile("c:\program files\msoffice97\office\mso97.dll") Actually, in REAL life, I don't like using hard coded paths because in the other computers, who's to say they use this same path. And I just KNOW I'm going to run into this again because within the month I'm converting their entire system to Access XP. So, being more realistic...should I just trap the stinking error if the reference already exists and go on or is there a better philosophy about doing this altogether? I would really HATE to have to go onsite and SET each computer's individual references to the correct ones. THAT would redefine PITA. Probably close to 50 compters. Blech. Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 13:13:45 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:13:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 13:17:35 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:17:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Some of us developers hate it too, probably because you can't count on it being any particular datatype, no matter how any *individual* developer might use it. Wading through a long dBase or VAX routine that uses literally dozens of single letter variables in complex locational calcuations is enough to make you go postal! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I think is very typical of developers. I've found tech editors hate it and when generally make me rename my variable. They can be real sticklers. Susan H. Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 5 13:20:22 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:20:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB22C@main2.marlow.com> While Wend is just like Do Loop, however, in Do Loop, you can put the criteria at the top or bottom, but not both. In VBScript, you can't put anything after next. However, I see no problem with Next i still, because it doesn't harm anything. Also, while writing nested For Next loops, it helps me to remember where I am at when I do that: For i.... For j ..... For k .... Lots of code.... Next k 'Okay, done with k, let's take care of j Do something with j Next j 'okay, done with j, let's increment i Next i I wouldn't put those comments in, just what I'm thinking in my head as I'm coding... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Hi Brett >> I would have been silent. > Wow! I actually found something that would silence Gustav. Gotta make > a note of that... ;-) >> So, you would prefer the syntax: >> If I = 2 Then >> ' Do stuff >> End If I > Two points here: > First of all, that's not valid VB(A) syntax, so it's pretty hard to > truly comment on what I "prefer", since I couldn't have possibly used > that construct and formulated an opinion based on experience. Right??? Of course. I was moving along the tangent of Arthur's notes about "revised" syntax on the dba-tech list. > However, this is an easy one since your example is clearly not analogous > to what I stated. > A For...Next loop corresponds to a single loop variable. If statements, > Do...While loops, etc. are tied to conditions (I = 2, strLastName = > "Jones", etc.), not variables. If I place the letter I next to the End > If, it isn't very helpful since it is the condition (I = 2) that is the > basis of the code block. You are right about the Do .. Until loop. However, I find it very analogous to For I = 1 To 50 ' Do stuff Next I Also While .. Wend doesn't use it. Would you like: While N < 50 ' Do stuff Wend N > Repeating the entire condition string at the bottom of the block would > be far too wordy and the code maintainance required would outweigh its > benefit. Certainly. But I have thought about the Next (I) syntax. Though I seldom use nested loops and - when doing so - have found it very easy to keep track of the loops (I mean: one is indented inside another which is indented inside a third etc) I think that Next alone is more safe as it complete eliminates these classic typo errors: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next J or: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next I Using For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next Next prevents and completely eliminates these errors. And I have yet to see a code example where this could confuse a decent programmer. To cut it out: How could the nested For/For/For .. Next/Next/Next loops ever cause an error? /gustav > OK, it's not Friday yet but I did read what you wrote: especially. >>> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. > Had you written: >>> Makes a huge difference when dealing with nested loops. > I would have been silent. > So, you would prefer the syntax: > If I = 2 Then > ' Do stuff > End If I > Now, did I qualify for joining Arthur's "Club of Pendants"?? > /gustav >>> A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? >>> Is that you Brett? >> Um, take a moment to read my response before jumping all over it. I >> said: >>> Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. >> And yes, it does make a difference, even with a single loop. I don't >> have to scroll up a page of code to find the loop variable name, hence >> improved readability. >> But folks, Gustav is absolutely correct. It is not NECESSARY to >> specify the variable name in a Next statement. Nor is it NECESSARY to >> comment your code or use consistent naming conventions. Some of us >> just do these things for our own *special* reasons ;-) >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav >> Brock >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:48 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Hi Brett >>>>You don't need the last I; Next will do. >>> While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for >>> readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing >>> with nested loops. >> A huge difference - and added readability - for a single loop? >> Is that you Brett? >> /gustav >> PS: >> --------------Please open with care!------------ This message will >> bypass some of your spam filtering rules. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav >>> Brock >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >>> Hi Drew >>>> What's wrong with: >>>> For I=1 to 50 >>>> >>>> Next I >>> You don't need the last I; Next will do. >>> /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 5 13:54:09 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:54:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <16430331374.20040805170737@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040805185410.BHCQ1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Great! Is Susan still the editor in charge? =========Well, I'm not really an editor, but I play one on the Internet. What do you need? Susan H. From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu Aug 5 13:54:18 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:54:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589D@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Gustav, This thread has to end for me. My paid project work is suffering, so here's my last shot at getting my point across. > I think that Next alone is more safe as it complete eliminates these classic typo errors: >For I = 1 To 10 > For J = 1 To 10 > Next I >Next I In Access 2.0, it gives me a "Next without For" compiler error. In Access 2003, VB6 and VB.NET, it me an "Invalid Next control variable reference" compiler error. I'm reasonably sure that there are no versions of VB or VBA that allow this bug to slip past the compiler. In all cases, the COMPILER eliminates the typo error. Still no chance of introducing runtime errors by using my syntax. More safe? From those big, bad compile-time errors? Gimme a break... Next! >Would you like: > > While N < 50 > ' Do stuff > Wend N No Sam, I would not like it in a box, with a fox, on a train, or in a plane. You're repeating the same tired argument with different keywords. As I said before (about the If statements and Do loops), this loop is controlled by a CONDITION, not a counter variable. True, the condition MAY involve the value of a single variable, but what about: ' Wait 1 second While GetTickCount() - lngStartCount < 1000 DoEvents Wend So to conclude, I feel that the extra effort of including the For counter variable with the Next statement is worth the effort because: A) It allows me to tell what block a Next block belongs to, without having to scroll up to the For statement. B) In cases of nested loops, it helps me to ensure that my code is placed within the proper loop. C) Using this syntax does not increase the possibility of runtime errors, but there is a minor chance that it may reduce them (see B). D) Although they are not required by the compiler, I consider them a best practice to improve code readability. As a team developer, I accept the fact that the people maintaining my code may not possess above average code-deciphering skills like Gustav, and instead tend towards average like myself. _I_ find it easier to read and maintain, and obviously there are others who do as well, or else it would have been deprecated in the syntax overhaul of VB.NET. Conversely, I haven't heard a reasonable argument why it would make code harder to read or maintain. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Hi Brett >> I would have been silent. > Wow! I actually found something that would silence Gustav. Gotta > make a note of that... ;-) >> So, you would prefer the syntax: >> If I = 2 Then >> ' Do stuff >> End If I > Two points here: > First of all, that's not valid VB(A) syntax, so it's pretty hard to > truly comment on what I "prefer", since I couldn't have possibly used > that construct and formulated an opinion based on experience. Right??? Of course. I was moving along the tangent of Arthur's notes about "revised" syntax on the dba-tech list. > However, this is an easy one since your example is clearly not > analogous to what I stated. > A For...Next loop corresponds to a single loop variable. If > statements, Do...While loops, etc. are tied to conditions (I = 2, > strLastName = "Jones", etc.), not variables. If I place the letter I > next to the End If, it isn't very helpful since it is the condition (I > = 2) that is the basis of the code block. You are right about the Do .. Until loop. However, I find it very analogous to For I = 1 To 50 ' Do stuff Next I Also While .. Wend doesn't use it. Would you like: While N < 50 ' Do stuff Wend N > Repeating the entire condition string at the bottom of the block would > be far too wordy and the code maintainance required would outweigh its > benefit. Certainly. But I have thought about the Next (I) syntax. Though I seldom use nested loops and - when doing so - have found it very easy to keep track of the loops (I mean: one is indented inside another which is indented inside a third etc) I think that Next alone is more safe as it complete eliminates these classic typo errors: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next J or: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next I Using For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next Next prevents and completely eliminates these errors. And I have yet to see a code example where this could confuse a decent programmer. To cut it out: How could the nested For/For/For .. Next/Next/Next loops ever cause an error? /gustav -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 5 14:11:11 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:11:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB22F@main2.marlow.com> Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kaupca at chevrontexaco.com Thu Aug 5 14:56:21 2004 From: kaupca at chevrontexaco.com (Kaup, Chester A) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:56:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: Select vs. Make Table query Message-ID: <193572B4E0FC1744BEDFEE63F82CEC9E02739646@bocnte2k4.boc.chevrontexaco.net> > When I run a select query vs. an attached Oracle table I get incorrect > results. When I ran the same query as a make table query I get the > correct results. I am doing a match of one field and returning one > field. Anyone seen this before or have any thoughts. > > Chester Kaup > Information Management Technician > IT-MidContinent/MidContinent Business Unit > CTN 8-687-7415 > Outside 432-687-7414 > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > From Drawbridge.Jack at ic.gc.ca Thu Aug 5 15:11:32 2004 From: Drawbridge.Jack at ic.gc.ca (Drawbridge.Jack at ic.gc.ca) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 16:11:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 and A2k with Oracle 9.0.1 Message-ID: <45C67756F7C0F942AD80AE35546F40C20DF7F63E@mb-bp-011.ic.gc.ca> I have 2 databases (1 access 97 , 1 access 2000) both using ODBC to Oracle Ora9.0.1 With Access 97' I can insert records containing memo fields (50 - 800 chars) into Oracle varchar2(4000) column without error. With A2K, similar records with memo fields fail with " ORA-1416 - can bind a long value only for insert into a LONG column." Does anyone have a solution/fix/wrkaround for this? TIA Jack From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 15:19:02 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:19:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 5 15:41:16 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:41:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB232@main2.marlow.com> Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 15:50:49 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:50:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Apparently I'm not making *myself* clear. What is the order of savings between the integer and the long in that loop, and who cares? Neither is going to be noticeable, but if your shop standards say you use the smallest possible datatype appropriate for the operation, then you use an integer for a loop that doesn't require a long. I prefer to avoid floating point creep, but a currency type is larger than a single, so I'm forced by our requirements to use a single where I would rather not. However, if I take the approach that we *always* use singles for this so I don't have to make it obvious, I am a NAUGHTY developer with a high and mighty attitude because I really should know that there is no such thing as ALWAYS and other developers have to be able to read my code without difficulty!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 16:49:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:49:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 5 16:52:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 16:52:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB234@main2.marlow.com> Hiss! As for the order of savings between a long integer and an integer: Private Sub Command1_Click() Dim i As Integer Dim j As Integer Dim dtTemp As Date dtTemp = Now() For i = 1 To 32000 For j = 1 To 32000 Next j Next i Me.Label1.Caption = (Now - dtTemp) * 24 * 60 * 60 End Sub Private Sub Command2_Click() Dim i As Long Dim j As Long Dim dtTemp As Date dtTemp = Now() For i = 1 To 32000 For j = 1 To 32000 Next j Next i Me.Label2.Caption = (Now - dtTemp) * 24 * 60 * 60 End Sub Produced a little more then 25 seconds for Command1 and just under 21 seconds for Command2. That would be aproximately 19% faster. Which isn't something that should be ignored. If you look at the speed versus size issue, are you calculating with the integers more then you are declaring them? (ie, if you run a for i=1 to 100, are you declaring 99 other integers, to save at least 400 bytes?) I then added k (Integer in Command1, and Long Integer in Command2), and compiled the project into an .exe. This time, the Integer took just shy of 12 seconds (11.99999) and the Long Integer too just shy of 6 seconds (5.9999999). So when compiled, the Long Integer is 100% faster then an Integer. I do understand shop constraints, which is why I like not being in a shop. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Apparently I'm not making *myself* clear. What is the order of savings between the integer and the long in that loop, and who cares? Neither is going to be noticeable, but if your shop standards say you use the smallest possible datatype appropriate for the operation, then you use an integer for a loop that doesn't require a long. I prefer to avoid floating point creep, but a currency type is larger than a single, so I'm forced by our requirements to use a single where I would rather not. However, if I take the approach that we *always* use singles for this so I don't have to make it obvious, I am a NAUGHTY developer with a high and mighty attitude because I really should know that there is no such thing as ALWAYS and other developers have to be able to read my code without difficulty!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 5 17:04:26 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 18:04:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB232@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <00d201c47b38$2cd729e0$6601a8c0@rock> You may well be right, Drew, but I can't get my computer to report a difference in the speeds, no matter how high I increase both boundaries. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu Aug 5 17:28:21 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 18:28:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589D@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <000301c47b3b$86f86850$0201a8c0@COA3> Just to throw in another, late, point on this, I do it this way: For I = 1 To 10 Next ' I I throw in the variable after an apostrophe, so it's there, but commented out because somewhere else in my life (VBS?) you *can't* put the variable after the Next because it throws an error. This one method works on both. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 2:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Gustav, This thread has to end for me. My paid project work is suffering, so here's my last shot at getting my point across. > I think that Next alone is more safe as it complete eliminates these classic typo errors: >For I = 1 To 10 > For J = 1 To 10 > Next I >Next I In Access 2.0, it gives me a "Next without For" compiler error. In Access 2003, VB6 and VB.NET, it me an "Invalid Next control variable reference" compiler error. I'm reasonably sure that there are no versions of VB or VBA that allow this bug to slip past the compiler. In all cases, the COMPILER eliminates the typo error. Still no chance of introducing runtime errors by using my syntax. More safe? From those big, bad compile-time errors? Gimme a break... Next! >Would you like: > > While N < 50 > ' Do stuff > Wend N No Sam, I would not like it in a box, with a fox, on a train, or in a plane. You're repeating the same tired argument with different keywords. As I said before (about the If statements and Do loops), this loop is controlled by a CONDITION, not a counter variable. True, the condition MAY involve the value of a single variable, but what about: ' Wait 1 second While GetTickCount() - lngStartCount < 1000 DoEvents Wend So to conclude, I feel that the extra effort of including the For counter variable with the Next statement is worth the effort because: A) It allows me to tell what block a Next block belongs to, without having to scroll up to the For statement. B) In cases of nested loops, it helps me to ensure that my code is placed within the proper loop. C) Using this syntax does not increase the possibility of runtime errors, but there is a minor chance that it may reduce them (see B). D) Although they are not required by the compiler, I consider them a best practice to improve code readability. As a team developer, I accept the fact that the people maintaining my code may not possess above average code-deciphering skills like Gustav, and instead tend towards average like myself. _I_ find it easier to read and maintain, and obviously there are others who do as well, or else it would have been deprecated in the syntax overhaul of VB.NET. Conversely, I haven't heard a reasonable argument why it would make code harder to read or maintain. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Hi Brett >> I would have been silent. > Wow! I actually found something that would silence Gustav. Gotta > make a note of that... ;-) >> So, you would prefer the syntax: >> If I = 2 Then >> ' Do stuff >> End If I > Two points here: > First of all, that's not valid VB(A) syntax, so it's pretty hard to > truly comment on what I "prefer", since I couldn't have possibly used > that construct and formulated an opinion based on experience. Right??? Of course. I was moving along the tangent of Arthur's notes about "revised" syntax on the dba-tech list. > However, this is an easy one since your example is clearly not > analogous to what I stated. > A For...Next loop corresponds to a single loop variable. If > statements, Do...While loops, etc. are tied to conditions (I = 2, > strLastName = "Jones", etc.), not variables. If I place the letter I > next to the End If, it isn't very helpful since it is the condition (I > = 2) that is the basis of the code block. You are right about the Do .. Until loop. However, I find it very analogous to For I = 1 To 50 ' Do stuff Next I Also While .. Wend doesn't use it. Would you like: While N < 50 ' Do stuff Wend N > Repeating the entire condition string at the bottom of the block would > be far too wordy and the code maintainance required would outweigh its > benefit. Certainly. But I have thought about the Next (I) syntax. Though I seldom use nested loops and - when doing so - have found it very easy to keep track of the loops (I mean: one is indented inside another which is indented inside a third etc) I think that Next alone is more safe as it complete eliminates these classic typo errors: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next J or: For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next I Next I Using For I = 1 To 10 For J = 1 To 10 Next Next prevents and completely eliminates these errors. And I have yet to see a code example where this could confuse a decent programmer. To cut it out: How could the nested For/For/For .. Next/Next/Next loops ever cause an error? /gustav ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 5 17:54:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:54:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB235@main2.marlow.com> Do you have a 64 bit processor, by chance? If you do, then they would take the same amount of time. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 5:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You may well be right, Drew, but I can't get my computer to report a difference in the speeds, no matter how high I increase both boundaries. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 5 18:02:55 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 09:02:55 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4113493F.30389.1C8EC69@lexacorp.com.pg> On 5 Aug 2004 at 14:49, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but > I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has > anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > When something breaks regularly after hundreds of iterations, it is almost always caused by a memory leak. Watch how much memeroy the app is using during execution with Task Manager or PerfMon. Double check that you are explicitly destroying any object variables you create. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 5 18:24:57 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 16:24:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: Believe me, I know that and that was my first thought ... A week ago. I checked and double checked to make sure the objects are destroyed. I personally write code to destroy them right after I write the declarations, but I've also checked the code written or edited by the rest of the crew to see if I could spot anything. This is making me crazy because there never is an out of memory message, and memory usage in TaskManager is normal. That rhythmic thumping you hear is my head beating against the wall! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 On 5 Aug 2004 at 14:49, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, > but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. > Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > When something breaks regularly after hundreds of iterations, it is almost always caused by a memory leak. Watch how much memeroy the app is using during execution with Task Manager or PerfMon. Double check that you are explicitly destroying any object variables you create. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 5 18:28:44 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 09:28:44 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB234@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <41134F4C.7081.1E0902B@lexacorp.com.pg> On 5 Aug 2004 at 16:52, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > I then added k (Integer in Command1, and Long Integer in Command2), and > compiled the project into an .exe. This time, the Integer took just shy of > 12 seconds (11.99999) and the Long Integer too just shy of 6 seconds > (5.9999999). So when compiled, the Long Integer is 100% faster then an > Integer. > > I do understand shop constraints, which is why I like not being in a shop. > > Nope, you and I just like being the ones to design the constraints for our own one man shops :-) We both have a shop constraint of "Always use 32 bit datatypes unless required to do otherwise by an API" :-) From KP at sdsonline.net Thu Aug 5 19:18:25 2004 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:18:25 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Message-ID: <00a101c47b4a$e4345dd0$6401a8c0@user> Here's a Friday rant - is there a reason that people are replying to emails and putting their response at the bottom of the message instead of at the top? It's so much harder to quickly read through - you have to scroll down and find the response. I know that sometimes you have to do this when you are replying to different *parts* of the message - but otherwise - what the reason? Kath From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 5 19:52:42 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 10:52:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <00a101c47b4a$e4345dd0$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <411362FA.11819.22D6DC8@lexacorp.com.pg> On 6 Aug 2004 at 10:18, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Here's a Friday rant - is there a reason that people are replying to > emails and putting their response at the bottom of the message instead > of at the top? It's so much harder to quickly read through - you have > to scroll down and find the response. > > I know that sometimes you have to do this when you are replying to > different *parts* of the message - but otherwise - what the reason? > My rant would be: Why do people insist on "Top posting" and including *all* of the previous message(s) below their response. The following is stolen from: Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting By A. Smit and H.W. de Haan http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html 1. Because it is proper Usenet Etiquette. Check out the following URL: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html . It is a little outdated but still has a lot of valid points. Let us quote something from this site: If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just enough text of the original to give a context. This will make sure readers understand when they start to read your response. Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context helps everyone. But do not include the entire original! 2. We use a good news reader like Forte Agent. Good newsreaders like Agent put the signature by default at the end of the post, which is the Usenet convention. Microsoft Outlook Express however has some serious bugs. Let us quote someone we know: "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge We are programmers ourselves, and we know it is very easy to implement to put a signature at the end of the post instead of putting it directly above the post you are replying to and can not change the position. Forte Agent has as a feature that reply to a post it will remove the signature (recognizable by '-- ', note the extra space) and everything below it, so it will remove a part of the original message. This is good Usenet practice so Agent is not faulty. Outlook Express on the other hand is faulty, check this bugreport regarding the Usenet signature delimiter. If you want to try Agent, you can get it here. 3. Top-posting makes posts incomprehensible. Firstly: In normal conversations, one does not answer to something that has not yet been said. So it is unclear to reply to the top, whilst the original message is at the bottom. Secondly: In western society a book is normally read from top to bottom. Top-posting forces one to stray from this convention: Reading some at the top, skipping to the bottom to read the question, and going back to the top to continue. This annoyance increases even more than linear with the number of top-posts in the message. If someone replies to a thread and you forgot what the thread was all about, or that thread was incomplete for some reasons, it will be quite tiresome to rapidly understand what the thread was all about, due to bad posting and irrelevant text which has not been removed. 4. To prevent hideously long posts with a minimal account of new text, it is good Usenet practice to remove the non-relevant parts and optionally summarize the relevant parts of the original post, with regard to one's reply. Top- posting inevitably leads to long posts, because most top-posters leave the original message intact. All these long posts not only clutter up discussions, but they also clutter up the server space. 5. Top-posting makes it hard for bottom-posters to reply to the relevant parts: it not possible to answer within the original message. Bottom-posting does not make top-posting any harder. 6. Some people will argue that quoting looks bad due line wrapping. This can simply be dealt with by dropping Outlook Express as a start, and using only linewidths of 65 - 70 characters. Otherwise one has do it manually, and that can be tiresome. 7. A reason given by stubborn top-posters: they don't like to scroll to read the new message. We like to disagree here, because we always have to scroll down to see the original message and after that to scroll back up, just to see to what they are replying to. As a result you have to scroll twice as much when reading a top-poster's message. As a counterargument they say (believe us they do): "You can check the previous message in the discussion". This is even more tiresome than scrolling and with the unreliable nature of Usenet (and even email is inevitably unreliable), the previous message in the discussion can be simply unavailable. 8. Some newsgroups have strict conventions concerning posting in their charter. As an example we can tell you that in most Dutch newsgroups, you will be warned, killfiled or maybe even flamed, if you fail to follow Usenet conventions or if you do not quote according to the quoting guidelines. In general: it is better to practice the guidelines, if one does not want to get flamed in a newsgroup one just subscribed to. We can conclude that there are no good reasons we know of for top-posting. The most top-posts originate from the minimal work people spend on making posts. We think that one should be proud of one's post, that is it contains relevant content, well-formed sentences and no irrelevant 'bullsh*t', before uploading to your newsserver. If the majority of the group will adhere to this convention, the group will be nicer, tidier and easier to read. As a final remark we want to bring non-quoting into mind. This means that the original content of an email or Usenet post is completely removed. It makes it very hard for a reader to find out to what and whom one is replying. This phenomenon can be partly attributed to wrong settings of news- and email- clients, and partly to people who want to start with clean replies. Special thanks goes to P. Knutsen and P. Roskin for giving constructive feedback -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Thu Aug 5 20:17:23 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 21:17:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions References: <41134F4C.7081.1E0902B@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <02b101c47b53$232732d0$6401a8c0@default> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 7:28 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > On 5 Aug 2004 at 16:52, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > > > I then added k (Integer in Command1, and Long Integer in Command2), and > > compiled the project into an .exe. This time, the Integer took just shy of > > 12 seconds (11.99999) and the Long Integer too just shy of 6 seconds > > (5.9999999). So when compiled, the Long Integer is 100% faster then an > > Integer. > > > > I do understand shop constraints, which is why I like not being in a shop. > > > > > > Nope, you and I just like being the ones to design the constraints for our own > one man shops :-) > > We both have a shop constraint of "Always use 32 bit datatypes unless > required to do otherwise by an API" > > :-) And, as long as you're not using VB.Net, you can still say DefLng A,Z ... ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com From KP at sdsonline.net Thu Aug 5 20:42:02 2004 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:42:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message References: <411362FA.11819.22D6DC8@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <00f001c47b56$923e5920$6401a8c0@user> Interesting - but I completely disagree. Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them scroll all the way down to see the latest data? I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and for a list like this where we have already read the original post we only want to read the reply. I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this topic? Kath From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 5 21:04:07 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 12:04:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <00f001c47b56$923e5920$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <411373B7.28075.26ED0AC@lexacorp.com.pg> On 6 Aug 2004 at 11:42, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Interesting - but I completely disagree. > > Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous > form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them > scroll all the way down to see the latest data? > When Access adds a new record to a continuous form/table/query does it add it at the top or the bottom? A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation. Q. Why is top posting bad? > I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and > for a list like this where we have already read the original post we > only want to read the reply And with a long thread with lots of different opinions and branches? Take recent thread about "RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions". Top posts became very difficult to follow. Once the discussion had split off into Integers v Longs, there was no way of telling what the respondent is responding to without scrolling down and then back up again. > > I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most > 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. There's plenty of that. Try gooling ["top posting" "bottom posting"] > I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this > topic? > I know what I'd like it to be -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 5 21:20:25 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 19:20:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message References: <411362FA.11819.22D6DC8@lexacorp.com.pg> <00f001c47b56$923e5920$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <4112EAE9.6090701@shaw.ca> Top Poster are Evil. Kath Pelletti wrote: >Interesting - but I completely disagree. > >Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them scroll all the way down to see the latest data? > >I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and for a list like this where we have already read the original post we only want to read the reply. > >I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this topic? > >Kath > > Bottom poster are even eviler. You have to read all the legal disclaimers and ads to find the message. -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From KP at sdsonline.net Thu Aug 5 21:31:47 2004 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:31:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message References: <411373B7.28075.26ED0AC@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000901c47b5d$85779c40$6401a8c0@user> When Access adds a new record to a continuous form/table/query does it add it at the top or the bottom? A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation. But what would we all *like* it to do? We all write code to reverse it...... Nice talking to you Stuart - I am going to leave this thread - I fear that the result is going to be that everyone starts bottom posting and I'll bitterly regret raising the topic!! Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart McLachlan To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message On 6 Aug 2004 at 11:42, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Interesting - but I completely disagree. > > Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous > form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them > scroll all the way down to see the latest data? > When Access adds a new record to a continuous form/table/query does it add it at the top or the bottom? A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation. Q. Why is top posting bad? > I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and > for a list like this where we have already read the original post we > only want to read the reply And with a long thread with lots of different opinions and branches? Take recent thread about "RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions". Top posts became very difficult to follow. Once the discussion had split off into Integers v Longs, there was no way of telling what the respondent is responding to without scrolling down and then back up again. > > I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most > 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. There's plenty of that. Try gooling ["top posting" "bottom posting"] > I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this > topic? > I know what I'd like it to be -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Thu Aug 5 23:20:24 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:20:24 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs Message-ID: <010a01c47b6c$b247a260$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all I have a crosstab working fine. I have the criteria for this CrossTab typed directly (IE Hardcoded) into the Criteria portion of the relevant column in the Query Design grid If I replace that criteria with say Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID and then run the Crosstab I get an error that says ... The Microsoft Jet Database Engine does not recognise "Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID" as a valid field name or expression The cross tab is fed by a query not a table - So I went to the underlying 'feeder query'... and put in Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID into the 'feeder. Then ran the crosstab again... Same result - same error message. But if I run the 'feeder query' by itself using the Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID in the criteria portion of the grid - all is OK Is it the case that Crosstabs can't handle changeable or form bound criterias? Many thanks in advance Darren From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 5 23:42:12 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 14:42:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs In-Reply-To: <010a01c47b6c$b247a260$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <411398C4.29934.2FF8DF5@lexacorp.com.pg> On 6 Aug 2004 at 14:20, Darren DICK wrote: > > The cross tab is fed by a query not a table - So I went to the underlying 'feeder query'... > and put in Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID into the 'feeder. Then ran the crosstab again... > Same result - same error message. > But if I run the 'feeder query' by itself using the Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID in the criteria portion of the grid - all is OK > > Is it the case that Crosstabs can't handle changeable or form bound criterias? > Yep, this problem bites in a number of situations. My standard solution is to use a static function to store the content of the form's control and use that in the query. Put the following function in a module: Static Function StoredVariable(Optional varInput As Variant) As Variant Dim varStore As Variant 'Initialise the variant if the function is called 'the first time with no Input If IsEmpty(varStore) Then varStore = Null 'Update the store if the Input is present If Not IsMissing(varInput) Then varStore = varInput 'return the stored value StoredVariable = varStore End Function In the query, replace "Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID " with "=StoredVariable()" Then put "StoredVariable Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID" or "returnvalue = StoredVariable(Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID)" in code somewhere before you call the query. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From d.dick at uws.edu.au Thu Aug 5 23:59:20 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:59:20 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs References: <411398C4.29934.2FF8DF5@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <011501c47b72$2222f120$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Stuart many thanks for the prompt reply Does this also work with dates? EG StoredVariable >=Forms!frmReports!txtStartDate and <= Forms!frmReportstxtEndDAte Many thanks Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs > On 6 Aug 2004 at 14:20, Darren DICK wrote: > > > > The cross tab is fed by a query not a table - So I went to the underlying 'feeder query'... > > and put in Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID into the 'feeder. Then ran the crosstab again... > > Same result - same error message. > > But if I run the 'feeder query' by itself using the Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID in the criteria portion of the grid - all is OK > > > > Is it the case that Crosstabs can't handle changeable or form bound criterias? > > > > Yep, this problem bites in a number of situations. > > My standard solution is to use a static function to store the content of > the form's control and use that in the query. > > Put the following function in a module: > > Static Function StoredVariable(Optional varInput As Variant) As Variant > Dim varStore As Variant > > 'Initialise the variant if the function is called > 'the first time with no Input > If IsEmpty(varStore) Then varStore = Null > > 'Update the store if the Input is present > If Not IsMissing(varInput) Then varStore = varInput > > 'return the stored value > StoredVariable = varStore > End Function > > In the query, replace "Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID " with > "=StoredVariable()" > > Then put > "StoredVariable Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID" > or "returnvalue = StoredVariable(Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID)" > in code somewhere before you call the query. > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Aug 6 00:07:02 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 15:07:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs In-Reply-To: <011501c47b72$2222f120$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <41139E96.31093.316494B@lexacorp.com.pg> On 6 Aug 2004 at 14:59, Darren DICK wrote: > Hi Stuart > many thanks for the prompt reply > > Does this also work with dates? Yes, I wrote it to store variants so it doesn't matter what data type you are working with. > EG > StoredVariable >=Forms!frmReports!txtStartDate and <= Forms!frmReportstxtEndDAte > No can't do that , If you have two variables, you will need two stores so create two functions StoredVariable1() and StoredVariable2(). Put Startdate in one, Enddate in the other and set the query criteria to "Between StoredVariable1() and StoredVariable2()" -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From kathryn at bassett.net Fri Aug 6 00:13:26 2004 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 22:13:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <000901c47b5d$85779c40$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <3a5h63$5bsumv@mxip11a.cluster1.charter.net> Kath Pelletti said: > Nice talking to you Stuart - I am going to leave this thread > - I fear that the result is going to be that everyone starts > bottom posting and I'll bitterly regret raising the topic!! Kath, I do it the same way that Stuart does - interspersing quotes and my comments. Once in a while, I'll get lazy and top post, but I always feel guilty when I do, as I realize it IS lazyness that makes me do it. What gripes me is the people who, regardless of top or bottom posting, will quote the entire message and not edit it so that the reply is only to the pertinant part. This message is an example of the right way (IMO) to do that. I only quoted the one paragraph of your message and dumped the rest of the message. Kathryn (I don't shorten mine) Oh, and I use Outlook, and don't have my signature set to automatic, instead I "insert" it (as I have several that are pertinant for specific lists). The one below is my general one. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net From d.dick at uws.edu.au Fri Aug 6 00:28:18 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:28:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs References: <41139E96.31093.316494B@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <012401c47b76$2e7678d0$48619a89@DDICK> Excellent But when I type StoredVariable >=Forms!frmReports!txtStartDate and <= Forms!frmReports!txtEndDAte in say... The OnOpen of the relevant for before I run the crodstab the line in the VBE goes RED and if I run a Debug it highlights that line and says syntax error I have tried enclosing the criteria portion of the line in quotes but that essentially turns it into a string syntax not a dynamc syntax What should I do next? I am most grateful for your efforts and time Many thanks Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs > On 6 Aug 2004 at 14:59, Darren DICK wrote: > > > Hi Stuart > > many thanks for the prompt reply > > > > Does this also work with dates? > Yes, I wrote it to store variants so it doesn't matter what data type you > are working with. > > > EG > > StoredVariable >=Forms!frmReports!txtStartDate and <= Forms!frmReportstxtEndDAte > > > > No can't do that , If you have two variables, you will need two stores so > create two functions StoredVariable1() and StoredVariable2(). > > Put Startdate in one, Enddate in the other and set the query criteria to > "Between StoredVariable1() and StoredVariable2()" > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Fri Aug 6 00:32:46 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:32:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs References: <411398C4.29934.2FF8DF5@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <014c01c47b76$ce4ebac0$48619a89@DDICK> OOps Just re-read the last post Hang on I'll let you know how I go DArren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs > On 6 Aug 2004 at 14:20, Darren DICK wrote: > > > > The cross tab is fed by a query not a table - So I went to the underlying 'feeder query'... > > and put in Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID into the 'feeder. Then ran the crosstab again... > > Same result - same error message. > > But if I run the 'feeder query' by itself using the Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID in the criteria portion of the grid - all is OK > > > > Is it the case that Crosstabs can't handle changeable or form bound criterias? > > > > Yep, this problem bites in a number of situations. > > My standard solution is to use a static function to store the content of > the form's control and use that in the query. > > Put the following function in a module: > > Static Function StoredVariable(Optional varInput As Variant) As Variant > Dim varStore As Variant > > 'Initialise the variant if the function is called > 'the first time with no Input > If IsEmpty(varStore) Then varStore = Null > > 'Update the store if the Input is present > If Not IsMissing(varInput) Then varStore = varInput > > 'return the stored value > StoredVariable = varStore > End Function > > In the query, replace "Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID " with > "=StoredVariable()" > > Then put > "StoredVariable Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID" > or "returnvalue = StoredVariable(Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID)" > in code somewhere before you call the query. > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Fri Aug 6 00:56:58 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:56:58 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs References: <411398C4.29934.2FF8DF5@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <016201c47b7a$2f9c5e60$48619a89@DDICK> Stuart you da man!!!!! Thanks you so much this was really making life difficult for me Now 'tis simple and the users have 'dynamic' charts Thank you so so much This list is Awesome Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs > On 6 Aug 2004 at 14:20, Darren DICK wrote: > > > > The cross tab is fed by a query not a table - So I went to the underlying 'feeder query'... > > and put in Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID into the 'feeder. Then ran the crosstab again... > > Same result - same error message. > > But if I run the 'feeder query' by itself using the Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID in the criteria portion of the grid - all is OK > > > > Is it the case that Crosstabs can't handle changeable or form bound criterias? > > > > Yep, this problem bites in a number of situations. > > My standard solution is to use a static function to store the content of > the form's control and use that in the query. > > Put the following function in a module: > > Static Function StoredVariable(Optional varInput As Variant) As Variant > Dim varStore As Variant > > 'Initialise the variant if the function is called > 'the first time with no Input > If IsEmpty(varStore) Then varStore = Null > > 'Update the store if the Input is present > If Not IsMissing(varInput) Then varStore = varInput > > 'return the stored value > StoredVariable = varStore > End Function > > In the query, replace "Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID " with > "=StoredVariable()" > > Then put > "StoredVariable Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID" > or "returnvalue = StoredVariable(Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID)" > in code somewhere before you call the query. > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Fri Aug 6 03:12:18 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:12:18 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF7334@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Hi I have 2 Access programs that executes on my server every 5 minutes and that among things also opens Outlook to rchive E-mails. The thing is that these apps have run in A2K fine with no problems for years and now with A2K3 give 1 or more sporadic crashes a day. For 1 type of crash I know its connected with sending a fax trough outlook (GFI Faxmaker for Exchange) but the other crashes are totaly random. BUT in both type crashes it is always Outlook that crashes. I was hoping that SP1 for Office 2K3 would solve this issue, but it does not. So my question is not for solving these crashes, they apear to me to be a bug in Outlook, I already invested a lot of time to find a solution. The question is, How can I turn of the Office Crash Analisys. Because each time Access or Outlook crashes, I have to manualy intervean to click on send report. My task sheduler will not continue to exexcute the Access programs (none of both) until this chrash thing is solved. So I believe if the Crash analisys is "off" or at least automaticaly disapears I can sleep again at night... Erwin From mgauk at btconnect.com Fri Aug 6 03:08:23 2004 From: mgauk at btconnect.com (Max14-1) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:08:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <000901c47b5d$85779c40$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <200408060814.i768E1Q01532@databaseadvisors.com> I personally NEVER read a message that is bottom posted. If I cannot see at a glance (Outlook with Reading Pane) what the message is about, then I just dump it. There is no way that I personally have to time to scroll down each and every message to see what the latest input is. I would also prefer to have ALL the history repeated - regardless of bandwith. Again, due to time restraints, if I do take an interest in a subject but it is missing some essential item of information, then I just dump it. This is almost always the case where I see a comment. That?s my take on it. Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: 06 August 2004 03:32 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message When Access adds a new record to a continuous form/table/query does it add it at the top or the bottom? A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation. But what would we all *like* it to do? We all write code to reverse it...... Nice talking to you Stuart - I am going to leave this thread - I fear that the result is going to be that everyone starts bottom posting and I'll bitterly regret raising the topic!! Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart McLachlan To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message On 6 Aug 2004 at 11:42, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Interesting - but I completely disagree. > > Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous > form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them > scroll all the way down to see the latest data? > When Access adds a new record to a continuous form/table/query does it add it at the top or the bottom? A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation. Q. Why is top posting bad? > I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and > for a list like this where we have already read the original post we > only want to read the reply And with a long thread with lots of different opinions and branches? Take recent thread about "RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions". Top posts became very difficult to follow. Once the discussion had split off into Integers v Longs, there was no way of telling what the respondent is responding to without scrolling down and then back up again. > > I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most > 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. There's plenty of that. Try gooling ["top posting" "bottom posting"] > I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this > topic? > I know what I'd like it to be -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 From mgauk at btconnect.com Fri Aug 6 03:16:19 2004 From: mgauk at btconnect.com (MG) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:16:19 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200408060818.i768I0Q10985@databaseadvisors.com> There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may hold some answers for you. Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Cc: Steve White Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri Aug 6 03:25:20 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 9:25:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <20040806082518.27DBC25D7DA@smtp.nildram.co.uk> I've posted this on dba-Tech but copying here for wider coverage. I'd appreciate it if answers were to dba-Tech or, if you aren't subbbed to that (and don't want to), to me off-list. ---------------------------------- W2K as usual. I want to edit the registry to lock down some functionality for a specific user on a machine. I feel, howeverr, that I'm in a tricky situation. AFAIK I can only edit a user's settings whilst logged on as them (i.e. via HKCU). So I have to make sure that that user can do a regedit. One of the reg changes I want is to remove the Run from the Start Menu. I can do that but once I do that how will I ever be able to get back in to change that user's reg settings? By definition if they can't edit the registry then neither can I when logged on as them. But neither can I edit HKCU for THEM when logged on as ME. Any ideas? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From mgauk at btconnect.com Fri Aug 6 03:26:45 2004 From: mgauk at btconnect.com (MG) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:26:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF7334@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: <200408060827.i768R4Q21243@databaseadvisors.com> Go to "Start/Help" Search for "report errors" and follow the leads. Basically it is in your System setting. You can stop all error reports, or select which progams to report/not report on. (Control Panel / System / Advanced Tab / Error Reporting - bottom right) Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: 06 August 2004 09:12 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys Hi I have 2 Access programs that executes on my server every 5 minutes and that among things also opens Outlook to rchive E-mails. The thing is that these apps have run in A2K fine with no problems for years and now with A2K3 give 1 or more sporadic crashes a day. For 1 type of crash I know its connected with sending a fax trough outlook (GFI Faxmaker for Exchange) but the other crashes are totaly random. BUT in both type crashes it is always Outlook that crashes. I was hoping that SP1 for Office 2K3 would solve this issue, but it does not. So my question is not for solving these crashes, they apear to me to be a bug in Outlook, I already invested a lot of time to find a solution. The question is, How can I turn of the Office Crash Analisys. Because each time Access or Outlook crashes, I have to manualy intervean to click on send report. My task sheduler will not continue to exexcute the Access programs (none of both) until this chrash thing is solved. So I believe if the Crash analisys is "off" or at least automaticaly disapears I can sleep again at night... Erwin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 From mgauk at btconnect.com Fri Aug 6 03:35:14 2004 From: mgauk at btconnect.com (MG) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:35:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200408060835.i768ZJQ29807@databaseadvisors.com> Access doesn't have to do any figuring. It just pops the stack. My take is that if it is a small coded loop, then I don't add the loopname, otherwise I do, 'cos 1-It aids readability, 2-It helps me keep track of where I am as I am adding the, 3-It also helps with the 'Elseifs' (Yep, I put them there as well), 4- It saves having to comment if the loopname is sufficiently descriptive. Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 05 August 2004 19:08 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's also supposed to be faster because Access doesn't have to attempt to figure out what to increment. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 5:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >You don't need the last I; Next will do. While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with nested loops. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions --------------Please open with care!------------ This message has bypassed some of our spam filtering rules. This message was scanned for viruses and executable code has been stripped. --------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Drew > What's wrong with: > For I=1 to 50 > > Next I You don't need the last I; Next will do. /gustav ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. 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This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Fri Aug 6 05:17:07 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:17:07 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0ADAC6@stekelbes.ithelps.local> I'm not sure if the Windows error reporting is the same as the Office Crash Analisys??? Anyway, this option is only present on a Windows XP computer. My server has a Windows 2000 Server OS. But Thanks anyway Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MG Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys Go to "Start/Help" Search for "report errors" and follow the leads. Basically it is in your System setting. You can stop all error reports, or select which progams to report/not report on. (Control Panel / System / Advanced Tab / Error Reporting - bottom right) Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: 06 August 2004 09:12 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys Hi I have 2 Access programs that executes on my server every 5 minutes and that among things also opens Outlook to rchive E-mails. The thing is that these apps have run in A2K fine with no problems for years and now with A2K3 give 1 or more sporadic crashes a day. For 1 type of crash I know its connected with sending a fax trough outlook (GFI Faxmaker for Exchange) but the other crashes are totaly random. BUT in both type crashes it is always Outlook that crashes. I was hoping that SP1 for Office 2K3 would solve this issue, but it does not. So my question is not for solving these crashes, they apear to me to be a bug in Outlook, I already invested a lot of time to find a solution. The question is, How can I turn of the Office Crash Analisys. Because each time Access or Outlook crashes, I have to manualy intervean to click on send report. My task sheduler will not continue to exexcute the Access programs (none of both) until this chrash thing is solved. So I believe if the Crash analisys is "off" or at least automaticaly disapears I can sleep again at night... Erwin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Fri Aug 6 05:24:09 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:24:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0ADAC7@stekelbes.ithelps.local> You can temporary load the full user registry file (NTUSER.DAT in regedt32) when logged on as administrator. Log in as administrator Run regedt32 Select HKEY_USERS Click File >> load Hive Browse to the NTUSER.DAT file of that specific user Open it Give it a clear Temporary name like TEMP_{name_of_user} You will see a key added called TEMP_{name_of_user} Make your changes.... IMPORTANT ** You need to unload the hive when finished. Select the key TEMP_{name_of_user} Click file >> unload Hive And thats it... I translated from dutch so I'm not sure if the menu name is load Hive or Component.... Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:25 AM To: Dba Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) I've posted this on dba-Tech but copying here for wider coverage. I'd appreciate it if answers were to dba-Tech or, if you aren't subbbed to that (and don't want to), to me off-list. ---------------------------------- W2K as usual. I want to edit the registry to lock down some functionality for a specific user on a machine. I feel, howeverr, that I'm in a tricky situation. AFAIK I can only edit a user's settings whilst logged on as them (i.e. via HKCU). So I have to make sure that that user can do a regedit. One of the reg changes I want is to remove the Run from the Start Menu. I can do that but once I do that how will I ever be able to get back in to change that user's reg settings? By definition if they can't edit the registry then neither can I when logged on as them. But neither can I edit HKCU for THEM when logged on as ME. Any ideas? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Aug 6 06:32:55 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:32:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Exporting Using Code Message-ID: <4941964.1091791975665.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> To all, I have the following code to export a query into an excel sheet: strSQL = "SELECT * INTO " & _ "[Excel 8.0; Database=C:\Email\ProgrammeSummary.xls].? & _ ?[ProgrammeSummary] " & _ "FROM qryProgrammeSummary " Does anyone know if I can use the same method to export to a text file, if so could someone show me the syntax to it, cause I have been playing around with this for the last hour, and can?t seem to do it. Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 07:01:05 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:01:05 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <119179288.20040806140105@cactus.dk> Hi Greg Charlotte is right. If you feel you have a need to fiddle with the references, this is the very first thing to do. No exceptions. Also, doing so will leave your app decompiled and you may need to recompile afterwards. We had a long thread on this topic. Look up the archive on "Broken References in Runtime AXP and A97" of 2003-07-23. /gustav > Greg, > It is logical that you cannot declare any objects before you verify the > references. Even if the Office library isn't the one that's broken, you > need to test the references before you do *anything* else, including > declare object variables as anything but Object. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:58 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 > Hi everyone... > Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier post(s) about references > and how to find broken ones (I don't have my list here at work so I > don't have all the responses). > I still have the references issue. And it may be because of how I'm > starting the program or how I have the references set. There is only > one right now that is giving me the PITA, and it's to mso97.dll in the > Office directory. Hard to test that one too, because if you delete it, > Access won't start. > I can use the References.AddFromFile(...) code to set the reference. > But there's a catch-22...if I don't have a reference to the MS Office > 8.0 Object library, then the code: > Dim cbr as CommandBar > fails just before I can set the reference using: > SetRef = References.AddFromFile("c:\program > files\msoffice97\office\mso97.dll") From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri Aug 6 07:20:01 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:20:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <20040806121959.1AC622521C6@smtp.nildram.co.uk> That sounds just what I need. Brilliant. Thanks Erwin. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Date: 06/08/04 10:25 > > You can temporary load the full user registry file (NTUSER.DAT in > regedt32) when logged on as administrator. > > Log in as administrator > > Run regedt32 > Select HKEY_USERS > Click File >> load Hive > Browse to the NTUSER.DAT file of that specific user > Open it > Give it a clear Temporary name like > TEMP_{name_of_user} > > You will see a key added called TEMP_{name_of_user} > Make your changes.... > > IMPORTANT ** You need to unload the hive when finished. > Select the key TEMP_{name_of_user} > Click file >> unload Hive > > And thats it... > > I translated from dutch so I'm not sure if the menu name is load Hive or > Component.... > > Erwin > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:25 AM > To: Dba > Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > I've posted this on dba-Tech but copying here for wider coverage. I'd > appreciate it if answers were to dba-Tech or, if you aren't subbbed to > that (and don't want to), to me off-list. > ---------------------------------- > > W2K as usual. I want to edit the registry to lock down some > functionality for a specific user on a machine. I feel, howeverr, that > I'm in a tricky situation. AFAIK I can only edit a user's settings > whilst logged on as them (i.e. via HKCU). So I have to make sure that > that user can do a regedit. One of the reg changes I want is to remove > the Run from the Start Menu. I can do that but once I do that how will I > ever be able to get back in to change that user's reg settings? By > definition if they can't edit the registry then neither can I when > logged on as them. But neither can I edit HKCU for THEM when logged on > as ME. Any ideas? > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > ________________________________________________ > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri Aug 6 07:45:31 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:45:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30929096@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB724@ADGSERVER> I'm a top poster also. I admit it. But I think it is a personal choice kind of thing. Most people what are reading a reply to an e-mail either sent the original that is being replied to, or has already read the original posting. It makes sense to me to top post so that you do not have to scroll to the bottom or re-read the original post. Just as in a conversation, when you reply, you do not re-speak everything that was spoken prior to your reply. It really does not matter to me where people post. But one thing that really pisses me off on some of the Redhat/Fedora Linux mailing lists is that it is a giant issue that some Linux gods (as they think they are) have deemed that bottom posting is the law. There have been many flame wars and vitriolic posts over such a petty subject as top/bottom posting that I usually will not post a question (although I have many) or an answer (of which I have few) because it is not worth it to me to get flamed for top posting. So, can't we all just get along? LOL. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:18 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Here's a Friday rant - is there a reason that people are replying to emails and putting their response at the bottom of the message instead of at the top? It's so much harder to quickly read through - you have to scroll down and find the response. I know that sometimes you have to do this when you are replying to different *parts* of the message - but otherwise - what the reason? Kath -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 07:39:17 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:39:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <20040805185410.BHCQ1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040805185410.BHCQ1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <17821471254.20040806143917@cactus.dk> Hi Susan > Great! Is Susan still the editor in charge? > =========Well, I'm not really an editor, but I play one on the Internet. > What do you need? Have a look at Jim's writing. Sounds like it could be a part of the next Many-to-Many issue. /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 07:51:01 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:51:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18522175827.20040806145101@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte The fail on TransferText is probably only a sympton not the error. Or maybe it is; it uses the "external ISAM" I guess. Nevertheless, you could try replacing the TransferText routine with a simple "Open File and read in line by line" routine. I'm sure you know how to this. It may even be faster than TransferText. /gustav > I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the > archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so > I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does > nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To > stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip > file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible > with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The > import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a > while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file > several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 > error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for > databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each > text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having > imported the thing before. > After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI > until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the > database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, > because the module level and global variables are still populated. I > can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access > can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out > of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and > see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can > replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across > machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of > *when* it breaks vary slightly. > I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but > I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has > anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > Charlotte Foust > Infostat Systems, Inc. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri Aug 6 08:02:26 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:02:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Message-ID: <20040806130223.8DB93256DFE@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Ok, I'm taking off most of the original post and the sigs, cos I do when I remember to. Then I'm top posting, cos I too prefer it (flame away if you like). But if I don't see a reply at the top it takes me, what, a second to scroll to the bottom and find the reply. So I prefer top posting but can't get steamed up about it either way. I'm agreeing with Bobby. Live and let live. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > So, can't we all just get along? LOL. > > Bobby > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 6 08:02:21 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:02:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <17821471254.20040806143917@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040806130223.TJXK1756.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> > Great! Is Susan still the editor in charge? > =========Well, I'm not really an editor, but I play one on the Internet. > What do you need? Have a look at Jim's writing. Sounds like it could be a part of the next Many-to-Many issue. /gustav Oh dear, oh dear... Where should I respond... :) Top... Bottom... Maybe on the side???? ;) Send me something. :) Susan H. From JHewson at karta.com Fri Aug 6 08:24:21 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:24:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E14F@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> I agree with Kath. I always top post. In my line of business I receive anywhere from 50 to 60 e-mails a day. I don't have time to scroll down through a post I sent, or that I have already read. If the post is not at the top, I presume the author made a mistake and did not reply. Like Max, I dump a lot of the e-mails. Most of those posts are either relegated to the bottom of the list to be read, or more likely, just dumped. Overall, I probably only get one or two e-mails (excluding this list), without the post at the top, in a week. Like Bobby and Andy, I think we all need to get along.... but if you bottom post, don't expect me to reply. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Ok, I'm taking off most of the original post and the sigs, cos I do when I remember to. Then I'm top posting, cos I too prefer it (flame away if you like). But if I don't see a reply at the top it takes me, what, a second to scroll to the bottom and find the reply. So I prefer top posting but can't get steamed up about it either way. I'm agreeing with Bobby. Live and let live. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > So, can't we all just get along? LOL. > > Bobby > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 08:29:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:29:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting Using Code In-Reply-To: <4941964.1091791975665.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> References: <4941964.1091791975665.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> Message-ID: <10424486369.20040806152932@cactus.dk> Hi paul The general syntax is like: SELECT * INTO [Text;Database=C:\Windows\Temp].[TestDate.txt] FROM tblExportFrom; /gustav > I have the following code to export a query into an excel sheet: > strSQL = "SELECT * INTO " & _ > "[Excel 8.0; Database=C:\Email\ProgrammeSummary.xls].? & _ > ?[ProgrammeSummary] " & _ > "FROM qryProgrammeSummary " > > Does anyone know if I can use the same method to export to a text > file, if so could someone show me the syntax to it, cause I have > been playing around with this for the last hour, and can?t seem to > do it. > Thanks in advance for any help. > Paul Hartland From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 08:39:53 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:39:53 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12025107722.20040806153953@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte > It's also supposed to be faster because Access doesn't have to attempt > to figure out what to increment. This is an old rumour that doesn't hold. Speed is equal: http://www.xbeat.net/vbspeed/c_ForNext.htm /gustav >>You don't need the last I; Next will do. > While you don't NEED the last I, many developers include it for > readability sake. Makes a huge difference, especially when dealing with > nested loops. From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 09:15:06 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:15:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <200408060835.i768ZJQ29807@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200408060835.i768ZJQ29807@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <17927220621.20040806161506@cactus.dk> Hi Max > Access doesn't have to do any figuring. It just pops the stack. > My take is that if it is a small coded loop, then I don't add the loopname, > otherwise I do, 'cos > 1-It aids readability, > 2-It helps me keep track of where I am as I am adding the, > 3-It also helps with the 'Elseifs' (Yep, I put them there as well), > 4-It saves having to comment if the loopname is sufficiently descriptive. I like that no. 4 argument: lngTables = .TableDefs.Count For lngTable = 0 To lngTables - 1 ' Do table stuff. Next lngTable /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 08:43:57 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:43:57 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB22C@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB22C@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <3225351293.20040806154357@cactus.dk> Hi Drew > For i.... > For j ..... > For k .... > Lots of code.... > Next k 'Okay, done with k, let's take care of j > Do something with j > Next j 'okay, done with j, let's increment i > Next i > I wouldn't put those comments in, just what I'm thinking in my head as I'm > coding... You made me worry for a moment ... /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 09:09:43 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:09:43 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <000301c47b3b$86f86850$0201a8c0@COA3> References: <000301c47b3b$86f86850$0201a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <11226897857.20040806160943@cactus.dk> Hi Steve Now, that's what I call a compromise. /gustav > Just to throw in another, late, point on this, I do it this way: > For I = 1 To 10 > Next ' I > I throw in the variable after an apostrophe, so it's there, but > commented out because somewhere else in my life (VBS?) you *can't* put > the variable after the Next because it throws an error. This one > method works on both. From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 09:17:28 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:17:28 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589D@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> References: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB086506589D@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <727362365.20040806161728@cactus.dk> Hi Brett > This thread has to end for me. My paid project work is suffering, so > here's my last shot at getting my point across. Oh, please don't deprioritize your job because of this endless (now Friday) thread. About the tip on the compiler's catch of those typos: I didn't know that (thanks for the tip). But how should I know? I never make a typo! /gustav >> I think that Next alone is more safe as it complete eliminates these > classic typo errors: >>For I = 1 To 10 >> For J = 1 To 10 >> Next I >>Next I > In Access 2.0, it gives me a "Next without For" compiler error. > In Access 2003, VB6 and VB.NET, it me an "Invalid Next control variable > reference" compiler error. > I'm reasonably sure that there are no versions of VB or VBA that allow > this bug to slip past the compiler. In all cases, the COMPILER > eliminates the typo error. Still no chance of introducing runtime > errors by using my syntax. > More safe? From those big, bad compile-time errors? Gimme a break... > Next! >>Would you like: >> >> While N < 50 >> ' Do stuff >> Wend N > No Sam, I would not like it in a box, with a fox, on a train, or in a > plane. You're repeating the same tired argument with different > keywords. As I said before (about the If statements and Do loops), this > loop is controlled by a CONDITION, not a counter variable. True, the > condition MAY involve the value of a single variable, but what about: > ' Wait 1 second > While GetTickCount() - lngStartCount < 1000 > DoEvents > Wend > So to conclude, I feel that the extra effort of including the For > counter variable with the Next statement is worth the effort because: > A) It allows me to tell what block a Next block belongs to, without > having to scroll up to the For statement. > B) In cases of nested loops, it helps me to ensure that my code is > placed within the proper loop. > C) Using this syntax does not increase the possibility of runtime > errors, but there is a minor chance that it may reduce them (see B). > D) Although they are not required by the compiler, I consider them a > best practice to improve code readability. As a team developer, I > accept the fact that the people maintaining my code may not possess > above average code-deciphering skills like Gustav, and instead tend > towards average like myself. _I_ find it easier to read and maintain, > and obviously there are others who do as well, or else it would have > been deprecated in the syntax overhaul of VB.NET. Conversely, I haven't > heard a reasonable argument why it would make code harder to read or > maintain. From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Aug 6 09:20:21 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:20:21 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Exporting Using Code Message-ID: <29911393.1091802021039.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Thanks, I tried reversing the process, i.e bringing the text file into the table but said I can't define field more than once, I think it's because there are no field names in the text file. Is there a way of saying there are no field names in the text file ? Paul Message date : Aug 06 2004, 02:33 PM >From : "Gustav Brock" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Exporting Using Code Hi paul The general syntax is like: SELECT * INTO [Text;Database=C:\Windows\Temp].[TestDate.txt] FROM tblExportFrom; /gustav > I have the following code to export a query into an excel sheet: > strSQL = "SELECT * INTO " & _ > "[Excel 8.0; Database=C:\Email\ProgrammeSummary.xls].? & _ > ?[ProgrammeSummary] " & _ > "FROM qryProgrammeSummary " > > Does anyone know if I can use the same method to export to a text > file, if so could someone show me the syntax to it, cause I have > been playing around with this for the last hour, and can?t seem to > do it. > Thanks in advance for any help. > Paul Hartland -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From GregSmith at starband.net Fri Aug 6 09:28:21 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:28:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 In-Reply-To: <119179288.20040806140105@cactus.dk> References: <119179288.20040806140105@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <1661.216.43.21.235.1091802501.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Gustav and Charlotte: Thanks. I was reading Charlotte's post yesterday and, thinking, well, yea, DUH on me...when it occurred to me that I'd seen all of this before or something similar...so I went to the archives and started searching on 'references' and found where you (Gustav) had written a note to search on what you just now told me to search on (again...ha!). I found exactly what I needed and it works! See. Old programmer memory doesn't really die or get erased, it just bytes the dust occasionally... I did notice that every time it recompiles the code (automatically thru the autoexec), the app file size grows some. And I can't tell it to compact it afterwards because then it would fire the autoexec again and go on forever. Is this an issue or should I just live with it? The file size itself is not an issue, but it seems kind of ... umm ... messy to me to keep growing like that. Thanks again for all your help... Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net > Hi Greg > > Charlotte is right. If you feel you have a need to fiddle with the > references, this is the very first thing to do. No exceptions. > > Also, doing so will leave your app decompiled and you may need to > recompile afterwards. > > We had a long thread on this topic. > Look up the archive on > > "Broken References in Runtime AXP and A97" > > of 2003-07-23. > > /gustav > > >> Greg, > >> It is logical that you cannot declare any objects before you verify >> the references. Even if the Office library isn't the one that's >> broken, you need to test the references before you do *anything* else, >> including declare object variables as anything but Object. > >> Charlotte Foust > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:58 AM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 > > >> Hi everyone... > >> Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier post(s) about >> references and how to find broken ones (I don't have my list here at >> work so I don't have all the responses). > >> I still have the references issue. And it may be because of how I'm >> starting the program or how I have the references set. There is only >> one right now that is giving me the PITA, and it's to mso97.dll in the >> Office directory. Hard to test that one too, because if you delete >> it, Access won't start. > >> I can use the References.AddFromFile(...) code to set the reference. >> But there's a catch-22...if I don't have a reference to the MS Office >> 8.0 Object library, then the code: > >> Dim cbr as CommandBar > >> fails just before I can set the reference using: > >> SetRef = References.AddFromFile("c:\program >> files\msoffice97\office\mso97.dll") > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 09:32:40 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:32:40 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Exporting Using Code In-Reply-To: <29911393.1091802021039.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> References: <29911393.1091802021039.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <328274506.20040806163240@cactus.dk> Hi Paul > I tried reversing the process, i.e bringing the text file into the table but said I can't define field more than once, I think it's because there are no field names in the text file. Is there a > way of saying there are no field names in the text file ? Reversing? Reverse what? But this type of query is a one-shot. The text file must not exist. /gustav > The general syntax is like: > SELECT > * > INTO > [Text;Database=C:\Windows\Temp].[TestDate.txt] > FROM > tblExportFrom; > /gustav >> I have the following code to export a query into an excel sheet: >> strSQL = "SELECT * INTO " & _ >> "[Excel 8.0; Database=C:\Email\ProgrammeSummary.xls].? & _ >> ?[ProgrammeSummary] " & _ >> "FROM qryProgrammeSummary " >> >> Does anyone know if I can use the same method to export to a text >> file, if so could someone show me the syntax to it, cause I have >> been playing around with this for the last hour, and can?t seem to >> do it. >> Thanks in advance for any help. >> Paul Hartland From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 09:34:46 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:34:46 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 In-Reply-To: <1661.216.43.21.235.1091802501.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> References: <119179288.20040806140105@cactus.dk> <1661.216.43.21.235.1091802501.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: <3528400998.20040806163446@cactus.dk> Hi Greg Good! I wouldn't worry about the small increase in file size. /gustav > Gustav and Charlotte: > Thanks. I was reading Charlotte's post yesterday and, thinking, well, > yea, DUH on me...when it occurred to me that I'd seen all of this before > or something similar...so I went to the archives and started searching on > 'references' and found where you (Gustav) had written a note to search on > what you just now told me to search on (again...ha!). > I found exactly what I needed and it works! See. Old programmer memory > doesn't really die or get erased, it just bytes the dust occasionally... > I did notice that every time it recompiles the code (automatically thru > the autoexec), the app file size grows some. And I can't tell it to > compact it afterwards because then it would fire the autoexec again and go > on forever. Is this an issue or should I just live with it? The file > size itself is not an issue, but it seems kind of ... umm ... messy to me > to keep growing like that. > Thanks again for all your help... > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net >> Hi Greg >> >> Charlotte is right. If you feel you have a need to fiddle with the >> references, this is the very first thing to do. No exceptions. >> >> Also, doing so will leave your app decompiled and you may need to >> recompile afterwards. >> >> We had a long thread on this topic. >> Look up the archive on >> >> "Broken References in Runtime AXP and A97" >> >> of 2003-07-23. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>> Greg, >> >>> It is logical that you cannot declare any objects before you verify >>> the references. Even if the Office library isn't the one that's >>> broken, you need to test the references before you do *anything* else, >>> including declare object variables as anything but Object. >> >>> Charlotte Foust >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:58 AM >>> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>> Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 >> >> >>> Hi everyone... >> >>> Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier post(s) about >>> references and how to find broken ones (I don't have my list here at >>> work so I don't have all the responses). >> >>> I still have the references issue. And it may be because of how I'm >>> starting the program or how I have the references set. There is only >>> one right now that is giving me the PITA, and it's to mso97.dll in the >>> Office directory. Hard to test that one too, because if you delete >>> it, Access won't start. >> >>> I can use the References.AddFromFile(...) code to set the reference. >>> But there's a catch-22...if I don't have a reference to the MS Office >>> 8.0 Object library, then the code: >> >>> Dim cbr as CommandBar >> >>> fails just before I can set the reference using: >> >>> SetRef = References.AddFromFile("c:\program >>> files\msoffice97\office\mso97.dll") From GregSmith at starband.net Fri Aug 6 09:37:27 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:37:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <20040806130223.8DB93256DFE@smtp.nildram.co.uk> References: <20040806130223.8DB93256DFE@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <1677.216.43.21.235.1091803047.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> I'm a top poster. I like the "new" information to be right at the top of the post where I can see it right away. If it's not, and it's a topic I REALLY want to read, I'll find the new stuff in it no matter where it is. So I agree with Andy and Bobby...I prefer top posts but it doesn't bother me if it's not at the top. Greg > Ok, I'm taking off most of the original post and the sigs, cos I do when > I remember to. Then I'm top posting, cos I too prefer it (flame away if > you like). But if I don't see a reply at the top it takes me, what, a > second to scroll to the bottom and find the reply. So I prefer top > posting but can't get steamed up about it either way. > > I'm agreeing with Bobby. Live and let live. > > -- > Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > >> >> So, can't we all just get along? LOL. >> >> Bobby >> From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Fri Aug 6 09:51:34 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:51:34 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0ADAC8@stekelbes.ithelps.local> No prob 1 drink to receive 9999 drinks to pay... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) That sounds just what I need. Brilliant. Thanks Erwin. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Date: 06/08/04 10:25 > > You can temporary load the full user registry file (NTUSER.DAT in > regedt32) when logged on as administrator. > > Log in as administrator > > Run regedt32 > Select HKEY_USERS > Click File >> load Hive > Browse to the NTUSER.DAT file of that specific user Open it Give it a > clear Temporary name like TEMP_{name_of_user} > > You will see a key added called TEMP_{name_of_user} Make your > changes.... > > IMPORTANT ** You need to unload the hive when finished. > Select the key TEMP_{name_of_user} > Click file >> unload Hive > > And thats it... > > I translated from dutch so I'm not sure if the menu name is load Hive > or Component.... > > Erwin > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:25 AM > To: Dba > Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > I've posted this on dba-Tech but copying here for wider coverage. I'd > appreciate it if answers were to dba-Tech or, if you aren't subbbed to > that (and don't want to), to me off-list. > ---------------------------------- > > W2K as usual. I want to edit the registry to lock down some > functionality for a specific user on a machine. I feel, howeverr, that > I'm in a tricky situation. AFAIK I can only edit a user's settings > whilst logged on as them (i.e. via HKCU). So I have to make sure that > that user can do a regedit. One of the reg changes I want is to remove > the Run from the Start Menu. I can do that but once I do that how will > I ever be able to get back in to change that user's reg settings? By > definition if they can't edit the registry then neither can I when > logged on as them. But neither can I edit HKCU for THEM when logged on > as ME. Any ideas? > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > ________________________________________________ > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Fri Aug 6 10:17:07 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:17:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Brett, < I agree with you 100%, but this topic has bubbled up on the list before......if it were Access related, it probably would have made the great debate hall of fame, like bound/unbound, and natural/surrogate keys. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 7:18 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Here's a Friday rant - is there a reason that people are replying to emails and putting their response at the bottom of the message instead of at the top? It's so much harder to quickly read through - you have to scroll down and find the response. I know that sometimes you have to do this when you are replying to different *parts* of the message - but otherwise - what the reason? Kath -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 11:06:49 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:06:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB237@main2.marlow.com> I say we vote tolerance, and just put up with the bottom posters. Top posters and bottom posters, living hand in hand, one peaceful community. The List shall be a place of harmony. Now, people that have the 20 paragraph long legal disclaimer that is repeated 10 times in a thread......they're outta here! LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Interesting - but I completely disagree. Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them scroll all the way down to see the latest data? I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and for a list like this where we have already read the original post we only want to read the reply. I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this topic? Kath -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 11:08:42 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:08:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB238@main2.marlow.com> Nope, I'll keep top posting! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message When Access adds a new record to a continuous form/table/query does it add it at the top or the bottom? A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation. But what would we all *like* it to do? We all write code to reverse it...... Nice talking to you Stuart - I am going to leave this thread - I fear that the result is going to be that everyone starts bottom posting and I'll bitterly regret raising the topic!! Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart McLachlan To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message On 6 Aug 2004 at 11:42, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Interesting - but I completely disagree. > > Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous > form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them > scroll all the way down to see the latest data? > When Access adds a new record to a continuous form/table/query does it add it at the top or the bottom? A. Because it breaks the logical order of conversation. Q. Why is top posting bad? > I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and > for a list like this where we have already read the original post we > only want to read the reply And with a long thread with lots of different opinions and branches? Take recent thread about "RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions". Top posts became very difficult to follow. Once the discussion had split off into Integers v Longs, there was no way of telling what the respondent is responding to without scrolling down and then back up again. > > I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most > 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. There's plenty of that. Try gooling ["top posting" "bottom posting"] > I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this > topic? > I know what I'd like it to be -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 11:19:18 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:19:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB239@main2.marlow.com> Also, in a Windows 2k environment, you can use regedit, and log into another registry on the network. So while that user is on their machine, you can edit the registry from your machine. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 7:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) That sounds just what I need. Brilliant. Thanks Erwin. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Date: 06/08/04 10:25 > > You can temporary load the full user registry file (NTUSER.DAT in > regedt32) when logged on as administrator. > > Log in as administrator > > Run regedt32 > Select HKEY_USERS > Click File >> load Hive > Browse to the NTUSER.DAT file of that specific user > Open it > Give it a clear Temporary name like > TEMP_{name_of_user} > > You will see a key added called TEMP_{name_of_user} > Make your changes.... > > IMPORTANT ** You need to unload the hive when finished. > Select the key TEMP_{name_of_user} > Click file >> unload Hive > > And thats it... > > I translated from dutch so I'm not sure if the menu name is load Hive or > Component.... > > Erwin > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:25 AM > To: Dba > Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > I've posted this on dba-Tech but copying here for wider coverage. I'd > appreciate it if answers were to dba-Tech or, if you aren't subbbed to > that (and don't want to), to me off-list. > ---------------------------------- > > W2K as usual. I want to edit the registry to lock down some > functionality for a specific user on a machine. I feel, howeverr, that > I'm in a tricky situation. AFAIK I can only edit a user's settings > whilst logged on as them (i.e. via HKCU). So I have to make sure that > that user can do a regedit. One of the reg changes I want is to remove > the Run from the Start Menu. I can do that but once I do that how will I > ever be able to get back in to change that user's reg settings? By > definition if they can't edit the registry then neither can I when > logged on as them. But neither can I edit HKCU for THEM when logged on > as ME. Any ideas? > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > ________________________________________________ > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 11:24:22 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:24:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB23A@main2.marlow.com> Completely agree. Kathryn posted a very good bottom post though. One short blurb at the top, and then the rest. Now that I think is a good post. I wouldn't even call it a bottom post. It's just a post with relevant information. No scrolling required to see what she actually wrote (unless you had less then an inch of viewable window for her email.). I do think that if you have to scroll through a previous email, to get to it's reply, then it should have been a top post, to allow us to read the reply, and go backwards if we want. It's not laziness that promotes top-posting, it's forgetfulness that prompts bottom-posting. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 7:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message I'm a top poster also. I admit it. But I think it is a personal choice kind of thing. Most people what are reading a reply to an e-mail either sent the original that is being replied to, or has already read the original posting. It makes sense to me to top post so that you do not have to scroll to the bottom or re-read the original post. Just as in a conversation, when you reply, you do not re-speak everything that was spoken prior to your reply. It really does not matter to me where people post. But one thing that really pisses me off on some of the Redhat/Fedora Linux mailing lists is that it is a giant issue that some Linux gods (as they think they are) have deemed that bottom posting is the law. There have been many flame wars and vitriolic posts over such a petty subject as top/bottom posting that I usually will not post a question (although I have many) or an answer (of which I have few) because it is not worth it to me to get flamed for top posting. So, can't we all just get along? LOL. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:18 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Here's a Friday rant - is there a reason that people are replying to emails and putting their response at the bottom of the message instead of at the top? It's so much harder to quickly read through - you have to scroll down and find the response. I know that sometimes you have to do this when you are replying to different *parts* of the message - but otherwise - what the reason? Kath -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 11:38:57 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:38:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB23B@main2.marlow.com> LOL. That's really what a naming convention is, a method of how our brains think through the process of coding. Everyone thinks differently, which is why naming conventions are always so 'debated'. Let's adopt the Pirate Code philosophy from the Pirates of the Caribbean: Firstly, you must be a coder for the Naming Conventions to apply. Secondly, whether or not to include the incrementing counter after Next was never part of our negotiations. Thirdly, the Naming Conventions are more like guidelines, then actual rules. Welcome aboard the AccessD List, matey! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Hi Drew > For i.... > For j ..... > For k .... > Lots of code.... > Next k 'Okay, done with k, let's take care of j > Do something with j > Next j 'okay, done with j, let's increment i > Next i > I wouldn't put those comments in, just what I'm thinking in my head as I'm > coding... You made me worry for a moment ... /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Aug 6 11:49:09 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:49:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE40@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> I for 1 like it. Next? Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Susan, I hope they do. I had to when I was learning to use a naming convention. It's a rite of passage for developers. One of the things a new developer needs to learn is how to write standardized code that someone else can decipher. Unless they're experienced, their code is going to need a lot of revision over time, and they'll save plenty of time for themselves and others down the road if no one has to struggle to figure out what those objects and variables are. When I have to deal with code that uses variables like i, j, k, l m or objects like ThisOne, ThatOne, TheOther, I want to beat someone to a bloody pulp for winging it. On the other hand, if someone uses prefixes, I may be baffled by a few of them the first time I see them, but it won't take long to learn to translate. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions A good point, Susan. In my case, of course, the answer is ME. ===========I can see a new developer spending more time checking the list of abbreviations than coding. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri Aug 6 12:49:19 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 18:49:19 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB239@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <003001c47bdd$b2f5d260$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Howd'ya do that then? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 06 August 2004 17:19 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > > Also, in a Windows 2k environment, you can use regedit, and > log into another registry on the network. So while that user > is on their machine, you can edit the registry from your machine. > > Drew > From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 6 12:58:03 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:58:03 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Undocumented Access SQL syntax - Derived tables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2040597135.20040806195803@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte et all Did you see the thread "Exporting Using Code" by Paul? I found out about the trailing dot in the [SQL]. syntax for a virtual table. First, of course, it shows that we have a virtual table and not a bracketed field name. Second, if you, say, export to a text table via SQL, the "database name" is the _directory_ where the file will be created while the file name is the "table name" which is appended in brackets as well. So here comes the dot in: SELECT * INTO [Text; Database=d:\tempdir].[export.txt] FROM tblSomeTable; This I haven't seen elsewhere. /gustav > We've discussed this trick before in the list. I found it back in A97, > where it was problematic and had to be used with care, and I've used it > in 2k and XP. There was a tip on this in the December 2001 > Access-VB-SQL Advisor magazine, called "Create Derived Tables in Jet". > As I recall, they are covered in O'Reilly's Access Database Design & > Programming as well. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Maddison [mailto:michael at ddisolutions.com.au] > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Undocumented Access SQL syntax - Derived tables > Hi list, > I've been mainly working in SQL 2K for a while now and have grown to > love using derived tables in my sql statements. A shame you can't do > the same in Access! You thought so, well so did I. A colleague came > across a website (no link,sorry) which shows how to do derived tables in > MS Access. > Undocumented Syntax > SELECT .* > FROM > [SELECT sum(x) FROM FOO]. BAR > ***Notice the [] and the space after the . > This works like a charm, even the query designer likes it! The only > drawback I've found (apart from being undocumented) is the derived > tables cannot have column names with square brackets arround them. So > SELECT .* > FROM > [SELECT sum([My Badly Named Field]) FROM FOO]. BAR > Will not parse correctly. > Try it out. > cheers > Michael M From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 13:23:04 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:23:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB23D@main2.marlow.com> Start --> Run regedit Okay Registry (Menu) Connect Network Registry... Type Computer Name Click Ok Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Howd'ya do that then? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 06 August 2004 17:19 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > > Also, in a Windows 2k environment, you can use regedit, and > log into another registry on the network. So while that user > is on their machine, you can edit the registry from your machine. > > Drew > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com Fri Aug 6 13:58:18 2004 From: Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com (Lavsa, Rich) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:58:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <833956F5C117124A89417638FDB11290EBD25A@goexchange.pghcorning.com> There is a problem with doing that though. You only see 2 hives, the "Local Machine" and "Local Users". You don't see the Current User hive which is what I though he was after all along. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:23 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Start --> Run regedit Okay Registry (Menu) Connect Network Registry... Type Computer Name Click Ok Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Howd'ya do that then? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 06 August 2004 17:19 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > > Also, in a Windows 2k environment, you can use regedit, and > log into another registry on the network. So while that user > is on their machine, you can edit the registry from your machine. > > Drew > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 14:28:53 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:28:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB23F@main2.marlow.com> The Hive should be under HKEY_USERS Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lavsa, Rich Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) There is a problem with doing that though. You only see 2 hives, the "Local Machine" and "Local Users". You don't see the Current User hive which is what I though he was after all along. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:23 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Start --> Run regedit Okay Registry (Menu) Connect Network Registry... Type Computer Name Click Ok Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) Howd'ya do that then? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 06 August 2004 17:19 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > > Also, in a Windows 2k environment, you can use regedit, and > log into another registry on the network. So while that user > is on their machine, you can edit the registry from your machine. > > Drew > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Fri Aug 6 14:48:28 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:48:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 In-Reply-To: <3528400998.20040806163446@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Except some times, and I'm not sure of the what or why's, the file increases quite a bit. One of my FE's weighs in at about 22 Megs when all nice a de-compile and re-compiled and compacted. As soon as the db has to deal with a reference change and re-compile it's self, it bloats to around 47 megs. The ONLY way that I have found to get the size back down to a reasonable 25 megs is to use the **Internal** compact and repair. Performing the compact and repair externally does very little (maybe 3-4 megs) to reduce the size.. It's has been a problem from day one. Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 10:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 Hi Greg Good! I wouldn't worry about the small increase in file size. /gustav > Gustav and Charlotte: > Thanks. I was reading Charlotte's post yesterday and, thinking, well, > yea, DUH on me...when it occurred to me that I'd seen all of this before > or something similar...so I went to the archives and started searching on > 'references' and found where you (Gustav) had written a note to search on > what you just now told me to search on (again...ha!). > I found exactly what I needed and it works! See. Old programmer memory > doesn't really die or get erased, it just bytes the dust occasionally... > I did notice that every time it recompiles the code (automatically thru > the autoexec), the app file size grows some. And I can't tell it to > compact it afterwards because then it would fire the autoexec again and go > on forever. Is this an issue or should I just live with it? The file > size itself is not an issue, but it seems kind of ... umm ... messy to me > to keep growing like that. > Thanks again for all your help... > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net >> Hi Greg >> >> Charlotte is right. If you feel you have a need to fiddle with the >> references, this is the very first thing to do. No exceptions. >> >> Also, doing so will leave your app decompiled and you may need to >> recompile afterwards. >> >> We had a long thread on this topic. >> Look up the archive on >> >> "Broken References in Runtime AXP and A97" >> >> of 2003-07-23. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>> Greg, >> >>> It is logical that you cannot declare any objects before you verify >>> the references. Even if the Office library isn't the one that's >>> broken, you need to test the references before you do *anything* else, >>> including declare object variables as anything but Object. >> >>> Charlotte Foust >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:58 AM >>> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>> Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 >> >> >>> Hi everyone... >> >>> Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier post(s) about >>> references and how to find broken ones (I don't have my list here at >>> work so I don't have all the responses). >> >>> I still have the references issue. And it may be because of how I'm >>> starting the program or how I have the references set. There is only >>> one right now that is giving me the PITA, and it's to mso97.dll in the >>> Office directory. Hard to test that one too, because if you delete >>> it, Access won't start. >> >>> I can use the References.AddFromFile(...) code to set the reference. >>> But there's a catch-22...if I don't have a reference to the MS Office >>> 8.0 Object library, then the code: >> >>> Dim cbr as CommandBar >> >>> fails just before I can set the reference using: >> >>> SetRef = References.AddFromFile("c:\program >>> files\msoffice97\office\mso97.dll") -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Aug 6 16:12:39 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 14:12:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB23F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <4113F447.6030708@shaw.ca> You can also modify with WMI on WinXP Win2000, don't forget to backup registry before testing 'to change the registry the actual current user logged in to Sub testwmi() Dim WSHShell, RegLocate, RegLocate1, RegLocate2 Dim strComputer, objRegistry, regName, regName1, regName2 Dim regValue, regValue1, regValue2 'Set WSHShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell") Const HKEY_CURRENT_USER = &H80000001 strComputer = "." 'local machine 'Define Registry Keys to be edited RegLocate = "SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings" regName = "ProxyEnable" regValue = 0 RegLocate1 = "SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings" regName1 = "ProxyServer" regValue1 = "" RegLocate2 = "SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings" regName2 = "AutoConfigURL" regValue2 = "ftp://gateway/pub/proxy.pac" Call ModifyDWORD(strComputer, HKEY_CURRENT_USER, RegLocate, regName, regValue) Call ModifyRegString(strComputer, HKEY_CURRENT_USER, RegLocate1, regName1, regValue1) Call ModifyRegString(strComputer, HKEY_CURRENT_USER, RegLocate2, regName2, regValue2) End Sub Sub ModifyDWORD(strComputer, strRegistryHive, strRegPath, strRegName, intRegValue) Dim objRegistry Set objRegistry = GetObject("winmgmts:{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\" & _ strComputer & "\root\default:StdRegProv") Dim Result Result = objRegistry.SetDWORDValue(strRegistryHive, strRegPath, strRegName, intRegValue) End Sub Sub ModifyRegString(strComputer, strRegistryHive, strRegPath, strRegName, strRegValue) Dim objRegistry Set objRegistry = GetObject("winmgmts:{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\" & _ strComputer & "\root\default:StdRegProv") Dim Result Result = objRegistry.SetStringValue(strRegistryHive, strRegPath, strRegName, strRegValue) End Sub DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: >The Hive should be under HKEY_USERS > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lavsa, Rich >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:58 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > >There is a problem with doing that though. You only see 2 hives, the "Local >Machine" and "Local Users". You don't see the Current User hive which is >what I though he was after all along. > >-----Original Message----- >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:23 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > >Start --> Run >regedit >Okay >Registry (Menu) >Connect Network Registry... >Type Computer Name >Click Ok > >Drew > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:49 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) > > >Howd'ya do that then? > >-- Andy Lacey >http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >>DWUTKA at marlow.com >>Sent: 06 August 2004 17:19 >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT:Registry question (Cross-posted to dba-Tech) >> >> >>Also, in a Windows 2k environment, you can use regedit, and >>log into another registry on the network. So while that user >>is on their machine, you can edit the registry from your machine. >> >>Drew >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 16:16:57 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:16:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB241@main2.marlow.com> Okay, did a little testing on my own, with Access 97. Used the following code: Dim i Do Until i=-1 docmd.TransferText ....... i=i+1 Me.lblStatus.Caption="Importing: " & i 'DoEvents Loop Now, as is, above, the code Kicked up an 2051 error when i=11593 (It had imported 46372 records). Stopping the code, compacting the database, repairing the database, nothing would let the code start up again (without immediately kicking up that error message....which said something along the lines of a dialog box was not clicked or something.....), until I closed Access, and opened it up again, then it started right back up. Next time, it didn't error, it just hung. It sat at a record level of ~120,000 for about ten minutes, then I just killed it. No error, but it was definitely failing. Once I remove the quote before DoEvents, so that it would run, it seems to just fly, with no stopping. As I'm typing this, it's imported the records 1.5 million times and still going. Here's my theory. Jet is multi-threaded. I've had a little experience with multi-threading VB projects. One thing I know with doing that, is you have to be EXTREMELY careful when accessing a database. In fact, it is almost mandatory to force only one thread to do db transactions. If two threads try db transactions 'simultaneously', all sorts of things will happen (from just losing the thread, all the way to corrupting the database....not kidding...). The reason is that Windows isn't really paying attention to what a thread is doing when it gives time to the next one. So if two threads hit the db at the right time, it can REALLY get goofy. I'm sure the developers had that in mind when creating the TransferText method, however, they also probably didn't count on someone importing a file over and over and over, without a break. So what is probably happening, is that you are getting 'thread lock', where one or more of Jet's threads are locked, and there is nothing you can do about it, until you close Access, which will release the Jet threads. Now, I think putting in a DoEvents simply let's the VBA pause long enough to let the Jet threads finish what they need too, before being called again. Hope this helps in someway. Drew P.S. (It's now at 1.78 mill and counting....with the DoEvents....) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:49 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Cc: Steve White Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Aug 6 16:29:38 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 17:29:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB241@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Drew, You can test that theory out; there is a registry setting for the number of threads that JET should use. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 5:17 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Okay, did a little testing on my own, with Access 97. Used the following code: Dim i Do Until i=-1 docmd.TransferText ....... i=i+1 Me.lblStatus.Caption="Importing: " & i 'DoEvents Loop Now, as is, above, the code Kicked up an 2051 error when i=11593 (It had imported 46372 records). Stopping the code, compacting the database, repairing the database, nothing would let the code start up again (without immediately kicking up that error message....which said something along the lines of a dialog box was not clicked or something.....), until I closed Access, and opened it up again, then it started right back up. Next time, it didn't error, it just hung. It sat at a record level of ~120,000 for about ten minutes, then I just killed it. No error, but it was definitely failing. Once I remove the quote before DoEvents, so that it would run, it seems to just fly, with no stopping. As I'm typing this, it's imported the records 1.5 million times and still going. Here's my theory. Jet is multi-threaded. I've had a little experience with multi-threading VB projects. One thing I know with doing that, is you have to be EXTREMELY careful when accessing a database. In fact, it is almost mandatory to force only one thread to do db transactions. If two threads try db transactions 'simultaneously', all sorts of things will happen (from just losing the thread, all the way to corrupting the database....not kidding...). The reason is that Windows isn't really paying attention to what a thread is doing when it gives time to the next one. So if two threads hit the db at the right time, it can REALLY get goofy. I'm sure the developers had that in mind when creating the TransferText method, however, they also probably didn't count on someone importing a file over and over and over, without a break. So what is probably happening, is that you are getting 'thread lock', where one or more of Jet's threads are locked, and there is nothing you can do about it, until you close Access, which will release the Jet threads. Now, I think putting in a DoEvents simply let's the VBA pause long enough to let the Jet threads finish what they need too, before being called again. Hope this helps in someway. Drew P.S. (It's now at 1.78 mill and counting....with the DoEvents....) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:49 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Cc: Steve White Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 6 16:47:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:47:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB242@main2.marlow.com> Do you have a utility to count the number of threads being used? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Drew, You can test that theory out; there is a registry setting for the number of threads that JET should use. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 5:17 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Okay, did a little testing on my own, with Access 97. Used the following code: Dim i Do Until i=-1 docmd.TransferText ....... i=i+1 Me.lblStatus.Caption="Importing: " & i 'DoEvents Loop Now, as is, above, the code Kicked up an 2051 error when i=11593 (It had imported 46372 records). Stopping the code, compacting the database, repairing the database, nothing would let the code start up again (without immediately kicking up that error message....which said something along the lines of a dialog box was not clicked or something.....), until I closed Access, and opened it up again, then it started right back up. Next time, it didn't error, it just hung. It sat at a record level of ~120,000 for about ten minutes, then I just killed it. No error, but it was definitely failing. Once I remove the quote before DoEvents, so that it would run, it seems to just fly, with no stopping. As I'm typing this, it's imported the records 1.5 million times and still going. Here's my theory. Jet is multi-threaded. I've had a little experience with multi-threading VB projects. One thing I know with doing that, is you have to be EXTREMELY careful when accessing a database. In fact, it is almost mandatory to force only one thread to do db transactions. If two threads try db transactions 'simultaneously', all sorts of things will happen (from just losing the thread, all the way to corrupting the database....not kidding...). The reason is that Windows isn't really paying attention to what a thread is doing when it gives time to the next one. So if two threads hit the db at the right time, it can REALLY get goofy. I'm sure the developers had that in mind when creating the TransferText method, however, they also probably didn't count on someone importing a file over and over and over, without a break. So what is probably happening, is that you are getting 'thread lock', where one or more of Jet's threads are locked, and there is nothing you can do about it, until you close Access, which will release the Jet threads. Now, I think putting in a DoEvents simply let's the VBA pause long enough to let the Jet threads finish what they need too, before being called again. Hope this helps in someway. Drew P.S. (It's now at 1.78 mill and counting....with the DoEvents....) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:49 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Cc: Steve White Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Fri Aug 6 17:38:56 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 10:38:56 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F2908880E@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> That's good Stuart, I used to solve this by creating a temp table from the query with the criteria, then feeding this into the XtabQ. Good to find a better mousetrap. Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Friday, 6 August 2004 4:42 p.m. To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs On 6 Aug 2004 at 14:20, Darren DICK wrote: > > The cross tab is fed by a query not a table - So I went to the underlying 'feeder query'... > and put in Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID into the 'feeder. Then ran the crosstab again... > Same result - same error message. > But if I run the 'feeder query' by itself using the Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID in the criteria portion of the grid - all is OK > > Is it the case that Crosstabs can't handle changeable or form bound criterias? > Yep, this problem bites in a number of situations. My standard solution is to use a static function to store the content of the form's control and use that in the query. Put the following function in a module: Static Function StoredVariable(Optional varInput As Variant) As Variant Dim varStore As Variant 'Initialise the variant if the function is called 'the first time with no Input If IsEmpty(varStore) Then varStore = Null 'Update the store if the Input is present If Not IsMissing(varInput) Then varStore = varInput 'return the stored value StoredVariable = varStore End Function In the query, replace "Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID " with "=StoredVariable()" Then put "StoredVariable Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID" or "returnvalue = StoredVariable(Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID)" in code somewhere before you call the query. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KP at sdsonline.net Fri Aug 6 17:59:52 2004 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 08:59:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB237@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <002901c47c09$15f27e60$6401a8c0@user> Yes - I support tolerance......and let's not even start on those disclaimers... :) Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:06 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message I say we vote tolerance, and just put up with the bottom posters. Top posters and bottom posters, living hand in hand, one peaceful community. The List shall be a place of harmony. Now, people that have the 20 paragraph long legal disclaimer that is repeated 10 times in a thread......they're outta here! LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Interesting - but I completely disagree. Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous form - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them scroll all the way down to see the latest data? I think that displaying chronological order descending is simple and for a list like this where we have already read the original post we only want to read the reply. I also think that your definition of Usenet Etiquette, like most 'rules' on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. I guess the question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this topic? Kath -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Aug 6 18:12:33 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 09:12:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB242@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <41149D01.10513.6F81AB6@lexacorp.com.pg> On 6 Aug 2004 at 16:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Do you have a utility to count the number of threads being used? > > Drew > It's already avaiable in the OS. Task Manager - Processes. Click on View = Select Columns and tick whatever items you want to show. Thread Count is about half way down the second column of items. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 6 20:18:31 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 21:18:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <002901c47c09$15f27e60$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <021401c47c1c$73baffa0$6601a8c0@rock> Instead, I say that we put all the intolerant people in camps and therein tied to cattle prods, until they become more tolerant, nay compliant with our every sick wish :-) Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 7:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Yes - I support tolerance......and let's not even start on those disclaimers... :) Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:06 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message I say we vote tolerance, and just put up with the bottom posters. Top posters and bottom posters, living hand in hand, one peaceful community. The List shall be a place of harmony. Now, people that have the 20 paragraph long legal disclaimer that is repeated 10 times in a thread......they're outta here! LOL. Drew From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Aug 6 23:48:48 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 21:48:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <411362FA.11819.22D6DC8@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: This whole 'bottom-poster' discussion might end up being one of the hot-topic right up there with 'keys' and 'bound forms'. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 5:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message On 6 Aug 2004 at 10:18, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Here's a Friday rant - is there a reason that people are replying to > emails and putting their response at the bottom of the message instead > of at the top? It's so much harder to quickly read through - you have > to scroll down and find the response. > > I know that sometimes you have to do this when you are replying to > different *parts* of the message - but otherwise - what the reason? > My rant would be: Why do people insist on "Top posting" and including *all* of the previous message(s) below their response. The following is stolen from: Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting By A. Smit and H.W. de Haan http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html 1. Because it is proper Usenet Etiquette. Check out the following URL: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html . It is a little outdated but still has a lot of valid points. Let us quote something from this site: If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just enough text of the original to give a context. This will make sure readers understand when they start to read your response. Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context helps everyone. But do not include the entire original! 2. We use a good news reader like Forte Agent. Good newsreaders like Agent put the signature by default at the end of the post, which is the Usenet convention. Microsoft Outlook Express however has some serious bugs. Let us quote someone we know: "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge We are programmers ourselves, and we know it is very easy to implement to put a signature at the end of the post instead of putting it directly above the post you are replying to and can not change the position. Forte Agent has as a feature that reply to a post it will remove the signature (recognizable by '-- ', note the extra space) and everything below it, so it will remove a part of the original message. This is good Usenet practice so Agent is not faulty. Outlook Express on the other hand is faulty, check this bugreport regarding the Usenet signature delimiter. If you want to try Agent, you can get it here. 3. Top-posting makes posts incomprehensible. Firstly: In normal conversations, one does not answer to something that has not yet been said. So it is unclear to reply to the top, whilst the original message is at the bottom. Secondly: In western society a book is normally read from top to bottom. Top-posting forces one to stray from this convention: Reading some at the top, skipping to the bottom to read the question, and going back to the top to continue. This annoyance increases even more than linear with the number of top-posts in the message. If someone replies to a thread and you forgot what the thread was all about, or that thread was incomplete for some reasons, it will be quite tiresome to rapidly understand what the thread was all about, due to bad posting and irrelevant text which has not been removed. 4. To prevent hideously long posts with a minimal account of new text, it is good Usenet practice to remove the non-relevant parts and optionally summarize the relevant parts of the original post, with regard to one's reply. Top- posting inevitably leads to long posts, because most top-posters leave the original message intact. All these long posts not only clutter up discussions, but they also clutter up the server space. 5. Top-posting makes it hard for bottom-posters to reply to the relevant parts: it not possible to answer within the original message. Bottom-posting does not make top-posting any harder. 6. Some people will argue that quoting looks bad due line wrapping. This can simply be dealt with by dropping Outlook Express as a start, and using only linewidths of 65 - 70 characters. Otherwise one has do it manually, and that can be tiresome. 7. A reason given by stubborn top-posters: they don't like to scroll to read the new message. We like to disagree here, because we always have to scroll down to see the original message and after that to scroll back up, just to see to what they are replying to. As a result you have to scroll twice as much when reading a top-poster's message. As a counterargument they say (believe us they do): "You can check the previous message in the discussion". This is even more tiresome than scrolling and with the unreliable nature of Usenet (and even email is inevitably unreliable), the previous message in the discussion can be simply unavailable. 8. Some newsgroups have strict conventions concerning posting in their charter. As an example we can tell you that in most Dutch newsgroups, you will be warned, killfiled or maybe even flamed, if you fail to follow Usenet conventions or if you do not quote according to the quoting guidelines. In general: it is better to practice the guidelines, if one does not want to get flamed in a newsgroup one just subscribed to. We can conclude that there are no good reasons we know of for top-posting. The most top-posts originate from the minimal work people spend on making posts. We think that one should be proud of one's post, that is it contains relevant content, well-formed sentences and no irrelevant 'bullsh*t', before uploading to your newsserver. If the majority of the group will adhere to this convention, the group will be nicer, tidier and easier to read. As a final remark we want to bring non-quoting into mind. This means that the original content of an email or Usenet post is completely removed. It makes it very hard for a reader to find out to what and whom one is replying. This phenomenon can be partly attributed to wrong settings of news- and email- clients, and partly to people who want to start with clean replies. Special thanks goes to P. Knutsen and P. Roskin for giving constructive feedback -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Aug 7 07:34:55 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:34:55 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <521270026.20040807143455@cactus.dk> Hi Robert That increase is not a minor one. I have advice on this. Perhaps others can chime in? /gustav > Except some times, and I'm not sure of the what or why's, the file > increases quite a bit. One of my FE's weighs in at about 22 Megs when all > nice a de-compile and re-compiled and compacted. As soon as the db has to > deal with a reference change and re-compile it's self, it bloats to around > 47 megs. The ONLY way that I have found to get the size back down to a > reasonable 25 megs is to use the **Internal** compact and repair. Performing > the compact and repair externally does very little (maybe 3-4 megs) to > reduce the size.. > It's has been a problem from day one. > Robert Gracie > www.servicexp.com > Good! > I wouldn't worry about the small increase in file size. > /gustav >> Gustav and Charlotte: >> Thanks. I was reading Charlotte's post yesterday and, thinking, well, >> yea, DUH on me...when it occurred to me that I'd seen all of this before >> or something similar...so I went to the archives and started searching on >> 'references' and found where you (Gustav) had written a note to search on >> what you just now told me to search on (again...ha!). >> I found exactly what I needed and it works! See. Old programmer memory >> doesn't really die or get erased, it just bytes the dust occasionally... >> I did notice that every time it recompiles the code (automatically thru >> the autoexec), the app file size grows some. And I can't tell it to >> compact it afterwards because then it would fire the autoexec again and go >> on forever. Is this an issue or should I just live with it? The file >> size itself is not an issue, but it seems kind of ... umm ... messy to me >> to keep growing like that. >> Thanks again for all your help... >> Greg Smith >> gregsmith at starband.net >>> Hi Greg >>> >>> Charlotte is right. If you feel you have a need to fiddle with the >>> references, this is the very first thing to do. No exceptions. >>> >>> Also, doing so will leave your app decompiled and you may need to >>> recompile afterwards. >>> >>> We had a long thread on this topic. >>> Look up the archive on >>> >>> "Broken References in Runtime AXP and A97" >>> >>> of 2003-07-23. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>> Greg, >>> >>>> It is logical that you cannot declare any objects before you verify >>>> the references. Even if the Office library isn't the one that's >>>> broken, you need to test the references before you do *anything* else, >>>> including declare object variables as anything but Object. >>> >>>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 6:58 AM >>>> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>>> Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 >>> >>> >>>> Hi everyone... >>> >>>> Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier post(s) about >>>> references and how to find broken ones (I don't have my list here at >>>> work so I don't have all the responses). >>> >>>> I still have the references issue. And it may be because of how I'm >>>> starting the program or how I have the references set. There is only >>>> one right now that is giving me the PITA, and it's to mso97.dll in the >>>> Office directory. Hard to test that one too, because if you delete >>>> it, Access won't start. >>> >>>> I can use the References.AddFromFile(...) code to set the reference. >>>> But there's a catch-22...if I don't have a reference to the MS Office >>>> 8.0 Object library, then the code: >>> >>>> Dim cbr as CommandBar >>> >>>> fails just before I can set the reference using: >>> >>>> SetRef = References.AddFromFile("c:\program >>>> files\msoffice97\office\mso97.dll") From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Aug 7 07:39:56 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:39:56 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Criterias in CrossTabs In-Reply-To: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F2908880E@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> References: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F2908880E@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> Message-ID: <1971570848.20040807143956@cactus.dk> Hi Stephen An alternative I have used, is to specify the form reference as a parameter as the reason for the trouble seems to be that Access find it too difficult to figure out what it is dealing with: PARAMETERS Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID Integer; SELECT ... etc. /gustav > That's good Stuart, I used to solve this by creating a temp table from the query with the criteria, then feeding this into the XtabQ. Good to find a better mousetrap. > Stephen Bond >> The cross tab is fed by a query not a table - So I went to the underlying 'feeder query'... >> and put in Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID into the 'feeder. Then ran the crosstab again... >> Same result - same error message. >> But if I run the 'feeder query' by itself using the >> Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID in the criteria portion of the grid - all is OK >> >> Is it the case that Crosstabs can't handle changeable or form bound criterias? > Yep, this problem bites in a number of situations. > My standard solution is to use a static function to store the content of > the form's control and use that in the query. > Put the following function in a module: > Static Function StoredVariable(Optional varInput As Variant) As Variant > Dim varStore As Variant > 'Initialise the variant if the function is called > 'the first time with no Input > If IsEmpty(varStore) Then varStore = Null > 'Update the store if the Input is present > If Not IsMissing(varInput) Then varStore = varInput > 'return the stored value > StoredVariable = varStore > End Function > In the query, replace "Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID " with > "=StoredVariable()" > Then put > "StoredVariable Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID" > or "returnvalue = StoredVariable(Forms!frmCustomers!cmbCustomerID)" > in code somewhere before you call the query. From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Aug 7 07:51:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:51:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] References (again) - Access 97 In-Reply-To: <521270026.20040807143455@cactus.dk> References: <521270026.20040807143455@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <712244156.20040807145109@cactus.dk> Oops, sorry: > I have advice on this. Perhaps others can chime in? I have no advice on this. Perhaps others can chime in? /gustav From Developer at UltraDNT.com Sat Aug 7 11:27:37 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 12:27:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A2K2 Set Link in Code for Database with Password In-Reply-To: <1971570848.20040807143956@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000201c47c9b$7695f250$0201a8c0@COA3> Using this type of line to link a table in BE to a front end app: DoCmd.TransferDatabase acLink, "Microsoft Access", _ , acTable, _ rs(0), rs(0), False, True How do I supply a password (mdb password, not using mdw) in this line so the user is not prompted for it? TIA Steve From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 7 13:52:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:52:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c47caf$ad9e72e0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Absolutely. It is laziness pure and simple. The data type tells me what values should be expected or at least what the developer expected. I tells me nothing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 2:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 7 14:06:54 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:06:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB232@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000d01c47cb1$b7327750$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 7 14:17:15 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:17:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys In-Reply-To: <200408060827.i768R4Q21243@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000e01c47cb3$2a07f010$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Done! One of those "I'll go find that someday" thinks. Someday just arrived! Thanks! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MG Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Turning "off" Office Crash Analisys Go to "Start/Help" Search for "report errors" and follow the leads. Basically it is in your System setting. You can stop all error reports, or select which progams to report/not report on. (Control Panel / System / Advanced Tab / Error Reporting - bottom right) Max Sherman From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 7 14:25:36 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:25:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <021401c47c1c$73baffa0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <000f01c47cb4$54dd4000$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> There are two kinds of people, those that divide people into tolerant and intolerant, and those that don't. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Instead, I say that we put all the intolerant people in camps and therein tied to cattle prods, until they become more tolerant, nay compliant with our every sick wish :-) Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 7:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message Yes - I support tolerance......and let's not even start on those disclaimers... :) Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:06 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message I say we vote tolerance, and just put up with the bottom posters. Top posters and bottom posters, living hand in hand, one peaceful community. The List shall be a place of harmony. Now, people that have the 20 paragraph long legal disclaimer that is repeated 10 times in a thread......they're outta here! LOL. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sat Aug 7 14:43:11 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:43:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <000f01c47cb4$54dd4000$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <02b901c47cb6$c6147ca0$6601a8c0@rock> There are three kinds of programmers, those who can count and those who can't. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 3:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message There are two kinds of people, those that divide people into tolerant and intolerant, and those that don't. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From artful at rogers.com Sat Aug 7 14:56:02 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 15:56:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <000d01c47cb1$b7327750$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <02bf01c47cb8$9171fd90$6601a8c0@rock> When I originated this thread, my beef was about Hungarian prefixes. I have no dispute at all with typing every variable as optimally as possible. My original contention was the Hungarian prefixes increase noise at the expense of signal. In my last two projects, I have switched to what I call the "Object-Action" convention, augmented with Hungarian suffixes rather than prefixes. In your example, which refers to no actual objects, my version of your code might look like this: For WidgetCount_byt = 1 to 250 'do something Next WidgetCount_byt When referring to actual (Access) objects, something that I would formerly have called frmCustomer I now call Customer_frm. The underscore indicates that what follows is the object/data type. Everything before that follows standard proper-case notation, with the additional rule that the object of principal interest (Customer) is followed by the action(s) taken. In this new naming convention, I would never have a form called Customer_frm, since it does not specify the actions that can be taken. Given that four actions can in theory be taken (Select, Insert, Update, Delete), and that the initial letters of these four actions are unique, I can then reduce the Action part of the name to a sequence of one or more letters. CustomerSIUD_frm -- a form that presents the customer data and allows all four actions. (Code within the form, testing say user-level, might cause the Delete action to be unavailable, but that is beside the point, IMO.) What has really pleased me about this convention is the sort order in the database window. I don't have to look four letters in to find the objects relevant to any given table (i.e. learn to ignore the "frm" prefixes in the Form window -- no longer necessary -- I can type a "C" and maybe Customers is not the first table beginning with C but I'm close, right away. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 3:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 7 15:11:21 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 16:11:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <02bf01c47cb8$9171fd90$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <001001c47cba$b859ca30$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> And I have no beef with any of that, it is at least a convention. I or J or K is not. Or rather it is a convention, the convention being that in certain instances we don't use a convention. Now if we just had a convention to tell us what instances don't need a convention and what the implied convention is, well... Conventions (ANY of them) take time and effort to use. There is a certain member who I believe still frequents the list. One of those top notch minds who knew what he was doing. ABSOLUTELY UNREADABLE CODE. I looked at a lot of his stuff, hoping against hope to learn something from him. Nope. Now I know as well as the next that a For I next I all by itself is not going to make a piece of code unreadable, but it's the first step to unreadable code. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions When I originated this thread, my beef was about Hungarian prefixes. I have no dispute at all with typing every variable as optimally as possible. My original contention was the Hungarian prefixes increase noise at the expense of signal. In my last two projects, I have switched to what I call the "Object-Action" convention, augmented with Hungarian suffixes rather than prefixes. In your example, which refers to no actual objects, my version of your code might look like this: For WidgetCount_byt = 1 to 250 'do something Next WidgetCount_byt When referring to actual (Access) objects, something that I would formerly have called frmCustomer I now call Customer_frm. The underscore indicates that what follows is the object/data type. Everything before that follows standard proper-case notation, with the additional rule that the object of principal interest (Customer) is followed by the action(s) taken. In this new naming convention, I would never have a form called Customer_frm, since it does not specify the actions that can be taken. Given that four actions can in theory be taken (Select, Insert, Update, Delete), and that the initial letters of these four actions are unique, I can then reduce the Action part of the name to a sequence of one or more letters. CustomerSIUD_frm -- a form that presents the customer data and allows all four actions. (Code within the form, testing say user-level, might cause the Delete action to be unavailable, but that is beside the point, IMO.) What has really pleased me about this convention is the sort order in the database window. I don't have to look four letters in to find the objects relevant to any given table (i.e. learn to ignore the "frm" prefixes in the Form window -- no longer necessary -- I can type a "C" and maybe Customers is not the first table beginning with C but I'm close, right away. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 3:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Aug 7 18:23:10 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 09:23:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <02b901c47cb6$c6147ca0$6601a8c0@rock> References: <000f01c47cb4$54dd4000$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <4115F0FE.32730.C2820E5@lexacorp.com.pg> On 7 Aug 2004 at 15:43, Arthur Fuller wrote: > There are three kinds of programmers, those who can count and those who > can't. > There are 10 types of programmers, those who think in binary and those who don't. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Aug 8 09:51:59 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 16:51:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: <1618088971.20040703141936@cactus.dk> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB0AA@main2.marlow.com> <40E65CF7.7070905@shaw.ca> <1618088971.20040703141936@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <12722298793.20040808165159@cactus.dk> Hi all Browsing Mike Gunderloy's newsletter I noticed this which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else and makes a big difference between the earlier MSDE and the new SQL Server 2005 Express: --- One of the nicest things about SQL Server Express is what's been left out: the query governor from MSDE, which added arbitrary slowdowns when you had more than five active connections, is gone. This makes SQL Server Express a much more useful tool. In particular, many database-backed Web sites should be able to get by with this version of SQL Server and not pay a dime in licensing fees. The maximum size of databases is also doubled from MSDE, to 4GB. Maximum memory, however, is halved to 1 GB. Still, the majority of small and medium sites won't have a problem with this. You also get very nearly all of the features of the full, paid versions of SQL Server 2005. The major missing features include Reporting Services, Notification Services, Analysis Services, Full text search, DTS, and OLAP features. If you want to use these higher-end features, you need to move up to a non-free version of the product. What you DO get is pretty impressive. In addition to the features of SQL Server 2000, the 2005 revisions add thorough XML support, support for using the .NET Common Language Runtime integrated with T-SQL, a new set of management objects, and the ability to act as a client in both replication and messaging scenarios. .. --- /gustav From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 8 10:24:26 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 11:24:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: <12722298793.20040808165159@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040808152424.YRCN1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> It's true. :) Susan H. Hi all Browsing Mike Gunderloy's newsletter I noticed this which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else and makes a big difference between the earlier MSDE and the new SQL Server 2005 Express: --- One of the nicest things about SQL Server Express is what's been left out: the query governor from MSDE, which added arbitrary slowdowns when you had more than five active connections, is gone. This makes SQL Server Express a much more useful tool. In particular, many database-backed Web sites should be able to get by with this version of SQL Server and not pay a dime in licensing fees. The maximum size of databases is also doubled from MSDE, to 4GB. Maximum memory, however, is halved to 1 GB. Still, the majority of small and medium sites won't have a problem with this. From dwaters at usinternet.com Sun Aug 8 10:34:19 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 10:34:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: <8379385.1091978616863.JavaMail.root@sniper12.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000701c47d5d$2c0f5790$de1811d8@danwaters> Good Morning Gustav! You said, "a new set of management objects,". Do you know if these objects replace Enterprise Manager? Thanks! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 9:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor Hi all Browsing Mike Gunderloy's newsletter I noticed this which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else and makes a big difference between the earlier MSDE and the new SQL Server 2005 Express: --- One of the nicest things about SQL Server Express is what's been left out: the query governor from MSDE, which added arbitrary slowdowns when you had more than five active connections, is gone. This makes SQL Server Express a much more useful tool. In particular, many database-backed Web sites should be able to get by with this version of SQL Server and not pay a dime in licensing fees. The maximum size of databases is also doubled from MSDE, to 4GB. Maximum memory, however, is halved to 1 GB. Still, the majority of small and medium sites won't have a problem with this. You also get very nearly all of the features of the full, paid versions of SQL Server 2005. The major missing features include Reporting Services, Notification Services, Analysis Services, Full text search, DTS, and OLAP features. If you want to use these higher-end features, you need to move up to a non-free version of the product. What you DO get is pretty impressive. In addition to the features of SQL Server 2000, the 2005 revisions add thorough XML support, support for using the .NET Common Language Runtime integrated with T-SQL, a new set of management objects, and the ability to act as a client in both replication and messaging scenarios. .. --- /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Aug 8 10:50:53 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 17:50:53 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: <000701c47d5d$2c0f5790$de1811d8@danwaters> References: <000701c47d5d$2c0f5790$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: <4325832685.20040808175053@cactus.dk> Hi Dan > Good Morning Gustav! > You said, "a new set of management objects,". Do you know if these objects > replace Enterprise Manager? No the don't. They are not released yet, not even as a beta. > Thanks! You are welcome. But really, that should be addressed to Mike. Everyone should read his nice newsletter: http://www.adtmag.com/newsletters.asp?nl=DEV /gustav From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Aug 8 10:46:43 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 08:46:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: <12722298793.20040808165159@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Impressive.... :-) I have been holding back waiting for more comment and detail. The information supplied at the Microsoft site never seems to fully answer the questions as it is created by a sales team and not technical developers. Now I wonder if you can create the initial DB in SQL2000 or 2003, export the design and are there sufficient management tools to allow importing that design into SQL Server Express? Thanks Gustav Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 7:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor Hi all Browsing Mike Gunderloy's newsletter I noticed this which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else and makes a big difference between the earlier MSDE and the new SQL Server 2005 Express: --- One of the nicest things about SQL Server Express is what's been left out: the query governor from MSDE, which added arbitrary slowdowns when you had more than five active connections, is gone. This makes SQL Server Express a much more useful tool. In particular, many database-backed Web sites should be able to get by with this version of SQL Server and not pay a dime in licensing fees. The maximum size of databases is also doubled from MSDE, to 4GB. Maximum memory, however, is halved to 1 GB. Still, the majority of small and medium sites won't have a problem with this. You also get very nearly all of the features of the full, paid versions of SQL Server 2005. The major missing features include Reporting Services, Notification Services, Analysis Services, Full text search, DTS, and OLAP features. If you want to use these higher-end features, you need to move up to a non-free version of the product. What you DO get is pretty impressive. In addition to the features of SQL Server 2000, the 2005 revisions add thorough XML support, support for using the .NET Common Language Runtime integrated with T-SQL, a new set of management objects, and the ability to act as a client in both replication and messaging scenarios. .. --- /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sun Aug 8 11:25:54 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 09:25:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor References: <20040808152424.YRCN1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <41165412.4080601@shaw.ca> There are some glitches; some maybe sorted out with the Final release.. 1------------------------------------------------- SQL Express can't run on XP Home. There are rumors you may be able to modify TCP ports to get around this. System Requirements for Express http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/sysreqs/ 2 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ: Installing SQL Express side by side with SQL 2000 Enterprise Manager seems to break EM. It is still broken when You uninstall Express. SQLDMO9 is culprit. MS is supposed to release a new compatible version of EM to work with Beta real soon now. http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07/04/172956.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07.aspx 3 ------------------------------------------- I noticed that the DTS Runtime will not be included with SQL Express. In Access, you get the DTS Runtime when you install MSDE 2000. Does this mean that DTS will not be available to Access without full install of SQL Server 2005 not the Express version? . 4 ------------------------------------------------- SQL Server Express doesn't install any test databases but there is a sample pubs database script install from download pages. I think you can install side by side with MSDE but you will break EM Susan Harkins wrote: >It's true. :) > >Susan H. > >Hi all > >Browsing Mike Gunderloy's newsletter I noticed this which I haven't seen >mentioned anywhere else and makes a big difference between the earlier MSDE >and the new SQL Server 2005 Express: > >--- > >One of the nicest things about SQL Server Express is what's been left >out: the query governor from MSDE, which added arbitrary slowdowns when you >had more than five active connections, is gone. This makes SQL Server >Express a much more useful tool. In particular, many database-backed Web >sites should be able to get by with this version of SQL Server and not pay a >dime in licensing fees. The maximum size of databases is also doubled from >MSDE, to 4GB. Maximum memory, however, is halved to 1 GB. Still, the >majority of small and medium sites won't have a problem with this. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Aug 8 11:43:24 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 18:43:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K2 Set Link in Code for Database with Password In-Reply-To: <000201c47c9b$7695f250$0201a8c0@COA3> References: <000201c47c9b$7695f250$0201a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <17128983776.20040808184324@cactus.dk> Hi Steve You should have a look at the TableDefs collection and the Connect property. This is the way to go and will work faster too. If you look up the archive on "relink" you should find several examples. /gustav > Using this type of line to link a table in BE to a front end app: > DoCmd.TransferDatabase acLink, "Microsoft Access", _ > , acTable, _ > rs(0), rs(0), False, True > How do I supply a password (mdb password, not using mdw) in this line so > the user is not prompted for it? > TIA > Steve From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Aug 8 12:22:28 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 19:22:28 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Error loading DLL (CurrentProject.Connection) Message-ID: <11531327366.20040808192228@cactus.dk> Hi all I've now seen this error twice. Both times for code like this: Dim rst As ADODB.Recordset Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open "tblTable", CurrentProject.Connection, adOpenKeyset, adLockOptimistic The compiler stops at the line with rst.Open with the error message in the subject. After much trouble and testing, a reinstall (or update) of the MDAC did it in both cases. No explanation why. You can locate and download this from the Microsoft site: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/results.aspx?productID=&freetext=mdac&DisplayLang=en /gustav From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 8 15:48:44 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 16:48:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport Message-ID: <20040808204845.MWHA1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> The following procedure prints a "Missing Record" label in a subreport when there's a missing AutoNumber value -- I've based this particular example on the Products table in Northwind. It works fine, except for one thing -- it prints the subreport label text at the beginning of the Detail section -- before the first record. For the life I've me, I can't seem to shut it up! The subreport is positioned at the beginning of the Detail section, just above the actual controls. Susan H. 'Track record ProductID values. Public lngMissingRecordFlag As Long Private Sub Detail_Format(Cancel As Integer, FormatCount As Integer) 'If current record isn't one more than flag, print warning. Dim lngRecordCounter As Long lngRecordCounter = ProductID.Value If lngMissingRecordFlag = (lngRecordCounter - 1) Then Report.rptMissingRecordsub.Visible = False ElseIf lngMissingRecordFlag <> (lngRecordCounter - 1) Then Report.rptMissingRecordsub.Visible = True End If lngMissingRecordFlag = lngRecordCounter End Sub From d.dick at uws.edu.au Sun Aug 8 18:48:03 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:48:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Hide Queires via VBA Message-ID: <010501c47da2$25203c20$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all I sent this one out a few weeks a go. Don't think got a reply so Here we go again:-)) """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Hello all The following code hides all the tables in a dB- cool and it works well But there seems to be no "dot attributes" (.Attributes) setting for Queries from the QueryDefs object I basically wanna run some enumerating code like below and hide queries, forms etc Similar to rightclicking in the object window (Tables,Forms,Queries etc) then selecting an object say a table or form or a query then selecting PROPERTIES, then ticking the Attributes: Hidden checkbox Any ideas? Many thanks Darren Function f_HideAllTables () Dim db As DAO.Database Dim tbl As TableDef Set db = CurrentDb() For Each tbl In db.TableDefs tbl.Attributes = 2 Next Application.RefreshDatabaseWindow end function From sdhi at kalamazoo.net Sun Aug 8 20:53:04 2004 From: sdhi at kalamazoo.net (Sheri Hixson) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:53:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Message-ID: <000d01c47db3$a0061e30$02fea8c0@Sheri> I'm just not getting this. I have a 30,000 record table that I've imported. The first field has a product number with 4 hyphens - like 12-34-567-8888. I need to take the hyphens out of these product numbers. Hopefully with a query. I have Access XP and need this to be simple and hopefully as easy as possible. Any help would be appreciated. Dee From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Aug 8 21:04:52 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 12:04:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <000d01c47db3$a0061e30$02fea8c0@Sheri> Message-ID: <41176864.12618.11E2831F@lexacorp.com.pg> On 8 Aug 2004 at 21:53, Sheri Hixson wrote: > I'm just not getting this. I have a 30,000 record table that I've imported. > The first field has a product number with 4 hyphens - like 12-34-567-8888. I > need to take the hyphens out of these product numbers. Hopefully with a > query. I have Access XP and need this to be simple and hopefully as easy as > possible. Any help would be appreciated. > Since AccessSQL doesn't know about the built in Replace() function, try this: Create a function. Function MyReplace(OriginalText As String) As String MyReplace = Replace(OriginalText, "-", "") End Function Then run a query: "UPDATE myTable SET myField = MyReplace([myField]);" -- Stuart From sdhi at kalamazoo.net Sun Aug 8 21:18:36 2004 From: sdhi at kalamazoo.net (Sheri Hixson) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 22:18:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <41176864.12618.11E2831F@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001501c47db7$2eb5a580$02fea8c0@Sheri> "Create a function" ? Could you explain the steps involved for that? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 10:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. On 8 Aug 2004 at 21:53, Sheri Hixson wrote: > I'm just not getting this. I have a 30,000 record table that I've > imported. The first field has a product number with 4 hyphens - like > 12-34-567-8888. I need to take the hyphens out of these product > numbers. Hopefully with a query. I have Access XP and need this to be > simple and hopefully as easy as possible. Any help would be > appreciated. > Since AccessSQL doesn't know about the built in Replace() function, try this: Create a function. Function MyReplace(OriginalText As String) As String MyReplace = Replace(OriginalText, "-", "") End Function Then run a query: "UPDATE myTable SET myField = MyReplace([myField]);" -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Aug 8 21:47:13 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 12:47:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <001501c47db7$2eb5a580$02fea8c0@Sheri> References: <41176864.12618.11E2831F@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <41177251.3177.120947AE@lexacorp.com.pg> On 8 Aug 2004 at 22:18, Sheri Hixson wrote: > "Create a function" ? Could you explain the steps involved for that? Thanks. > 1. Open the database WIndow 2. Go To "Modules" 3. Click on "New" 4. Type in the function (or paste it from the last email) 5. Hit Ctrl+S to save the module (accept the default name when prompted) 6.Close the VBA editor window. -- Stuart From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Sun Aug 8 21:59:38 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 22:59:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. References: <41176864.12618.11E2831F@lexacorp.com.pg> <41177251.3177.120947AE@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <060b01c47dbc$e9593dc0$6401a8c0@default> But Stuart ... lol How can she run the function if you make the query in code and then close the VBA Editor? ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > 1. Open the database WIndow > 2. Go To "Modules" > 3. Click on "New" > 4. Type in the function (or paste it from the last email) > 5. Hit Ctrl+S to save the module (accept the default name when prompted) > 6.Close the VBA editor window. > -- > Stuart From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Sun Aug 8 22:03:40 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:03:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. References: <41176864.12618.11E2831F@lexacorp.com.pg><41177251.3177.120947AE@lexacorp.com.pg> <060b01c47dbc$e9593dc0$6401a8c0@default> Message-ID: <061b01c47dbd$79f903b0$6401a8c0@default> Just kidding ... ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael R Mattys" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 10:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. > But Stuart ... lol > > How can she run the function if you > make the query in code and then close > the VBA Editor? > > ---- > > Michael R. Mattys > Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint > http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > > > > 1. Open the database WIndow > > 2. Go To "Modules" > > 3. Click on "New" > > 4. Type in the function (or paste it from the last email) > > 5. Hit Ctrl+S to save the module (accept the default name when prompted) > > 6.Close the VBA editor window. > > -- > > Stuart > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun Aug 8 23:35:21 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:35:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. References: <000d01c47db3$a0061e30$02fea8c0@Sheri> Message-ID: <01c501c47dca$4818ff00$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Sheri: Assuming the format is the same, I'd first create a new field to hold the stripped product number, then use an update query and update the new field to: Left(fldProdNo,2) & Mid(fldProdNo,4,2) & Mid(fldProdNo,7,3) & Right(fldProdNo,4). I think that will work. HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheri Hixson" To: Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 6:53 PM Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. > I'm just not getting this. I have a 30,000 record table that I've imported. > The first field has a product number with 4 hyphens - like 12-34-567-8888. I > need to take the hyphens out of these product numbers. Hopefully with a > query. I have Access XP and need this to be simple and hopefully as easy as > possible. Any help would be appreciated. > > Dee > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Aug 8 23:49:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:49:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB243@main2.marlow.com> Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From thewaddles at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 9 00:48:19 2004 From: thewaddles at sbcglobal.net (Kevin Waddle) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 22:48:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Create a Search In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE89B9@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <000001c47dd4$7a760470$a87ffea9@TheWaddles> Virginia, This works well for me... I'll try to break down my spaghetti code. I have an Events Log mdb where users enter significant events. The table contains, among other things, the fields: EventDate (When did it happen) Reporter (Who logged it) Notes (What happened) The search form contains fields (Text or ComboBox) for: BeginningDate (A TextBox populated with the Calendar Control) EndingDate (A TextBox populated with the Calendar Control) Reporter (A ComboBox pulling data from a Table with Authorized Reporters) Notes (A TextBox populated with the search string for the Notes Field) The code below creates a string to use as the "WhereCondition" in the DoCmd.OperReport command. The string ends up being... Where... EventDate >= Forms!Main!beginningdate.value and EventDate <= Forms!Main!endingdate.value and reporter = 'Waddle SMS' and notes Like '*' & Forms!Main!txt_notes.value & '*' and category1 Like '*' & Forms!Main!txt_category.value & '*' '*** Code Start *** Private Sub SearchReport_Click() On Error GoTo Err_SearchReport_Click Dim stDocName As String Dim stLinkCriteria As String Dim DateError As Variant Dim strREPORTER As String Dim strFollowup As String If txt_Reporter.Value <> "" Then strREPORTER = " and reporter = '" & txt_Reporter.Value & "'" Else strREPORTER = "" End If If chkFollowup = -1 Then strFollowup = " and followup = -1" Else strFollowup = "" End If stDocName = "LogBook" stLinkCriteria = "EventDate >= Forms!Main!beginningdate.value and " _ & "EventDate <= Forms!Main!endingdate.value" & strREPORTER If EndingDate.Value < BeginningDate.Value Then DateError = msgbox("You have entered an ENDING DATE that is " & Chr(13) _ & "earlier than the BEGINNING DATE" _ & Chr(13) & Chr(13) _ & "Enter a New Date", _ vbCritical + vbOKOnly, "Date Error") BeginningDate.Value = Date EndingDate.Value = Date BeginningDate.SetFocus Else stDocName = "LogBook" stLinkCriteria = "EventDate >= Forms!Main!beginningdate.value and " _ & "EventDate <= Forms!Main!endingdate.value" _ & strREPORTER & strFollowup If txtNotes.Value <> "" Then stLinkCriteria = stLinkCriteria & " and notes Like '*' & Forms!Main!txtNotes.value & '*'" End If If txtCategory.Value <> "" Then stLinkCriteria = stLinkCriteria & " and category1 Like '*' & Forms!Main!txtCategory.value & '*'" End If DoCmd.OpenReport stDocName, acViewPreview, , stLinkCriteria DoCmd.Maximize End If Exit_SearchReport_Click: Exit Sub Err_SearchReport_Click: Debug.Print Err.Number & " " & Err.Description Resume Exit_SearchReport_Click End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 4:48 AM To: 'accessD at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Create a Search Does anyone have an example of creating a report by selecting search criteria from fields? I had a request today to add a custom report builder to one of my databases. Some of the fields will be text where they can enter what they need and other criteria will be from a combobox, they also want a date range field. Then! they want to be able to save the criteria for later use. For example - Document number - text box, Document type will be a combobox. I want to know all the documents created during a certain month, quarter, year, etc.). I have tried something like this several times, but when it comes to having more than one search criteria, I can never seem to make it work - then adding a date on top of that - well, I am lost. Thanks, Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 7/16/2004 From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 9 02:22:01 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 08:22:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <061b01c47dbd$79f903b0$6401a8c0@default> Message-ID: <005901c47de1$903f2ef0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Be fair guys. It's not going to encourage new listers if we make fun of their questions. We all (or most) at times ask questions which seem basic to others, but the list prides itself on treating everyone the same. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Michael R Mattys > Sent: 09 August 2004 04:04 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. > > > Just kidding ... > ---- > > Michael R. Mattys > > Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael R Mattys" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 10:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. > > > > But Stuart ... lol > > > > How can she run the function if you > > make the query in code and then close > > the VBA Editor? > > > > ---- > > > > Michael R. Mattys > > Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Open the database WIndow > > > 2. Go To "Modules" > > > 3. Click on "New" > > > 4. Type in the function (or paste it from the last email) > > > 5. Hit Ctrl+S to save the module (accept the default name > when prompted) > > > 6.Close the VBA editor window. > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 9 02:41:33 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:41:33 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport In-Reply-To: <20040808204845.MWHA1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040808204845.MWHA1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <1645061558.20040809094133@cactus.dk> Hi Susan So what you are trying to say is that the label should be set Visible or not just like the subreport? If so, is the label invisible if you manually (in report design) make the subreport not visible? /gustav > The following procedure prints a "Missing Record" label in a subreport when > there's a missing AutoNumber value -- I've based this particular example on > the Products table in Northwind. It works fine, except for one thing -- it > prints the subreport label text at the beginning of the Detail section -- > before the first record. For the life I've me, I can't seem to shut it up! > The subreport is positioned at the beginning of the Detail section, just > above the actual controls. > Susan H. > 'Track record ProductID values. > Public lngMissingRecordFlag As Long > Private Sub Detail_Format(Cancel As Integer, FormatCount As Integer) > 'If current record isn't one more than flag, print warning. > Dim lngRecordCounter As Long > lngRecordCounter = ProductID.Value > If lngMissingRecordFlag = (lngRecordCounter - 1) Then > Report.rptMissingRecordsub.Visible = False > ElseIf lngMissingRecordFlag <> (lngRecordCounter - 1) Then > Report.rptMissingRecordsub.Visible = True > End If > lngMissingRecordFlag = lngRecordCounter > End Sub From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Mon Aug 9 03:26:38 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:26:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Hide Queires via VBA Message-ID: Darren - How do you get to see these hidden features (the tables in this instance) after they are hidden away? Could there be something disguised on the User's form that can Unhide them? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:48 AM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Hide Queires via VBA Hello all I sent this one out a few weeks a go. Don't think got a reply so Here we go again:-)) """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Hello all The following code hides all the tables in a dB- cool and it works well But there seems to be no "dot attributes" (.Attributes) setting for Queries from the QueryDefs object I basically wanna run some enumerating code like below and hide queries, forms etc Similar to rightclicking in the object window (Tables,Forms,Queries etc) then selecting an object say a table or form or a query then selecting PROPERTIES, then ticking the Attributes: Hidden checkbox Any ideas? Many thanks Darren Function f_HideAllTables () Dim db As DAO.Database Dim tbl As TableDef Set db = CurrentDb() For Each tbl In db.TableDefs tbl.Attributes = 2 Next Application.RefreshDatabaseWindow end function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 9 03:47:15 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:47:15 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] CA Ingres r3 database engine as open source Message-ID: <889003696.20040809104715@cactus.dk> Hi all Did you see this: http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Product.asp?id=1013 I have zero experience with Ingres so I cannot judge the value of the CA offering. /gustav From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Aug 9 07:14:46 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 22:14:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <005901c47de1$903f2ef0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> References: <061b01c47dbd$79f903b0$6401a8c0@default> Message-ID: <4117F756.3056.1410E3B3@lexacorp.com.pg> On 9 Aug 2004 at 8:22, Andy Lacey wrote: > Be fair guys. It's not going to encourage new listers if we make fun of > their questions. We all (or most) at times ask questions which seem basic to > others, but the list prides itself on treating everyone the same. > Mea Culpa. Sorry-- Stuart From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 9 08:26:10 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:26:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport In-Reply-To: <1645061558.20040809094133@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040809132610.XUJF1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> So what you are trying to say is that the label should be set Visible or not just like the subreport? =====Report.rptMissingRecordsub.Visible = False === Right, it's the subreport I'm toggling off and on. If so, is the label invisible if you manually (in report design) make the subreport not visible? The subreport is actually printing before the current record -- which makes it look like there's a spot for the missing record, when there really isn't -- when there's no missing record, the subreport doesn't print and the Detail section shrinks accordingly. It's really a very very simple little routine and it works great, except for this one problem. Odd. =====Yes. Interestingly, another report that uses slightly different code works as expected, so I can only summise that it's in that counter, but I can't figure it out. I've walked through it and the condition works as expected, but when I run it right out, it prints the subreport just above the first record. The rest of the report works as expected. Below is the procedure that works -- same records, but different condition and the subreport prints only where it's supposed to. In this report, it prints on top of the record. Private Sub Detail_Format(Cancel As Integer, FormatCount As Integer) 'Display warning text if product is discontinued. If Discontinued = -1 Then Report.rptDiscontinuedsub.Visible = True Else Report.rptDiscontinuedsub.Visible = False End If End Sub > The following procedure prints a "Missing Record" label in a subreport > when there's a missing AutoNumber value -- I've based this particular > example on the Products table in Northwind. It works fine, except for > one thing -- it prints the subreport label text at the beginning of > the Detail section -- before the first record. For the life I've me, I can't seem to shut it up! > The subreport is positioned at the beginning of the Detail section, > just above the actual controls. > Susan H. > 'Track record ProductID values. > Public lngMissingRecordFlag As Long > Private Sub Detail_Format(Cancel As Integer, FormatCount As Integer) > 'If current record isn't one more than flag, print warning. > Dim lngRecordCounter As Long > lngRecordCounter = ProductID.Value > If lngMissingRecordFlag = (lngRecordCounter - 1) Then > Report.rptMissingRecordsub.Visible = False > ElseIf lngMissingRecordFlag <> (lngRecordCounter - 1) Then > Report.rptMissingRecordsub.Visible = True > End If > lngMissingRecordFlag = lngRecordCounter End Sub -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 9 08:31:23 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:31:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport In-Reply-To: <20040809132610.XUJF1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <20040809133125.XXMG1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Oh Gustav... Sorry... What you said just sunk in -- no, I hadn't tried that -- I will. Susan H. If so, is the label invisible if you manually (in report design) make the subreport not visible? From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Aug 9 08:45:43 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 08:45:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Scrolling in Code Window!! Message-ID: <001001c47e17$2aac2990$de1811d8@danwaters> Hallelujah! Go to KB 837910. It describes two ways to make mouse wheel scrolling active in a code window. I haven't been able to do this for a long while, and really missed it! Dan Waters From JColby at dispec.com Mon Aug 9 08:54:37 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:54:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDA4@DISABILITYINS01> So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? The old style coding that used I or J or K was intentionally, with malice and forethought replaced with meaningful names precisely because trying to read such code sucks bigtime. And yes, I realize that those who use I, J and K make wishy washy claims that it is actually more efficient. I have programmed in C and I can write "more efficient" code that even an experienced C programmer can't interpret. Just because you can doesn't mean you should! The whole point of a naming convention is to be able to read the name and see what it is for. Yes, I MAY be interpreted "automatically" as a counting integer (by YOU), but counting WHAT? Is it the row of a one dimension array? Or the row counter of a two dim array? or a three dim array? Or a collection? I is, you have to admit, pretty much useless in telling me anything. If I want to know, I have to go look at the dim, statement, then I have to go look at the For Next row, just to find out what I does for me. So what you are saying in your argument is that you simply don't care about those who come behind. It works for you and that when you are not maintaining the code why should you care? -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 9 09:24:03 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:24:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <01c501c47dca$4818ff00$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <012e01c47e1c$855571d0$6601a8c0@rock> An even simpler method which doesn't require creation of a new function, just uses an existing one, is to create an update query that updates the column of interest using Replace(). Here's a simple example. In the debug window type: ? replace("test-test-test-test","-","") Access responds with: Testtesttesttest So to do this in a query, in the query builder, change the query type to update, select the column of interest, and in the update row type: replace([ColumnOfInterest],"-","") Substitute the actual column name for [ColumnOfInterest]. Run the query and you're done. The advantage of doing it this way is that you depend neither on the exact location of the "-", nor the number of them. HTH, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Sheri: Assuming the format is the same, I'd first create a new field to hold the stripped product number, then use an update query and update the new field to: Left(fldProdNo,2) & Mid(fldProdNo,4,2) & Mid(fldProdNo,7,3) & Right(fldProdNo,4). I think that will work. HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheri Hixson" To: Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 6:53 PM Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. > I'm just not getting this. I have a 30,000 record table that I've imported. > The first field has a product number with 4 hyphens - like > 12-34-567-8888. I > need to take the hyphens out of these product numbers. Hopefully with > a query. I have Access XP and need this to be simple and hopefully as > easy as > possible. Any help would be appreciated. > > Dee > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon Aug 9 09:37:53 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:37:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Ouch, John...pretty harsh, but exactly right! Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... strEmployeeList(i,j) 'what does i and j stand for? strEmployeeList(intI, intJ) 'still, what does intI and intJ stand for? strEmployeeList(intEmployeeType, intEmployeeCounter) 'seems understandable to me -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? The old style coding that used I or J or K was intentionally, with malice and forethought replaced with meaningful names precisely because trying to read such code sucks bigtime. And yes, I realize that those who use I, J and K make wishy washy claims that it is actually more efficient. I have programmed in C and I can write "more efficient" code that even an experienced C programmer can't interpret. Just because you can doesn't mean you should! The whole point of a naming convention is to be able to read the name and see what it is for. Yes, I MAY be interpreted "automatically" as a counting integer (by YOU), but counting WHAT? Is it the row of a one dimension array? Or the row counter of a two dim array? or a three dim array? Or a collection? I is, you have to admit, pretty much useless in telling me anything. If I want to know, I have to go look at the dim, statement, then I have to go look at the For Next row, just to find out what I does for me. So what you are saying in your argument is that you simply don't care about those who come behind. It works for you and that when you are not maintaining the code why should you care? From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 9 09:42:31 2004 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:42:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Scrolling in Code Window!! Message-ID: Hi group, This is something that will work in the code window, but what about scrolling on a form? Can I use this on an Access form to scroll in a tree view control when I want to drag and drop from the top of one node to the top of another node. The second node is below the window, and when I try to drop my item, moving my mouse down the form, I cannot go beyond the existing window. Cannot find anything in the knowledge base that relates to this issue. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From lytlenj at yahoo.com Mon Aug 9 09:49:59 2004 From: lytlenj at yahoo.com (Nancy Lytle) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 07:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Create a Search Message-ID: <20040809144959.58682.qmail@web53903.mail.yahoo.com> Susan, did you check out Steve Nyberg's Rfil report filtering, you can add it to the database and it will let them filter any report based on any field it contains. They can also save the filter for later use. Nancy Lytle From JColby at dispec.com Mon Aug 9 10:05:01 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:05:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDA5@DISABILITYINS01> >Ouch, John...pretty harsh, but exactly right! Yea. Sorry bout that. I do get a little uh... harsh sometimes. Your example hits the nail right on the head. Particularly when dealing with arrays, each dimension means something, and getting them backwards is deadly. And of course, arrays is one of the big uses for counters. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ouch, John...pretty harsh, but exactly right! Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... strEmployeeList(i,j) 'what does i and j stand for? strEmployeeList(intI, intJ) 'still, what does intI and intJ stand for? strEmployeeList(intEmployeeType, intEmployeeCounter) 'seems understandable to me -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? The old style coding that used I or J or K was intentionally, with malice and forethought replaced with meaningful names precisely because trying to read such code sucks bigtime. And yes, I realize that those who use I, J and K make wishy washy claims that it is actually more efficient. I have programmed in C and I can write "more efficient" code that even an experienced C programmer can't interpret. Just because you can doesn't mean you should! The whole point of a naming convention is to be able to read the name and see what it is for. Yes, I MAY be interpreted "automatically" as a counting integer (by YOU), but counting WHAT? Is it the row of a one dimension array? Or the row counter of a two dim array? or a three dim array? Or a collection? I is, you have to admit, pretty much useless in telling me anything. If I want to know, I have to go look at the dim, statement, then I have to go look at the For Next row, just to find out what I does for me. So what you are saying in your argument is that you simply don't care about those who come behind. It works for you and that when you are not maintaining the code why should you care? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 9 10:13:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:13:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB247@main2.marlow.com> I second that! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 2:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Be fair guys. It's not going to encourage new listers if we make fun of their questions. We all (or most) at times ask questions which seem basic to others, but the list prides itself on treating everyone the same. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Michael R Mattys > Sent: 09 August 2004 04:04 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. > > > Just kidding ... > ---- > > Michael R. Mattys > > Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael R Mattys" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 10:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. > > > > But Stuart ... lol > > > > How can she run the function if you > > make the query in code and then close > > the VBA Editor? > > > > ---- > > > > Michael R. Mattys > > Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Open the database WIndow > > > 2. Go To "Modules" > > > 3. Click on "New" > > > 4. Type in the function (or paste it from the last email) > > > 5. Hit Ctrl+S to save the module (accept the default name > when prompted) > > > 6.Close the VBA editor window. > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 9 10:33:31 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:33:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB243@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <013401c47e26$3a582a10$6601a8c0@rock> Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 9 10:35:01 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:35:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <005901c47de1$903f2ef0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <013501c47e26$6f8aa230$6601a8c0@rock> Hear, hear! The best qualities of a good teacher are humility and patience. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Be fair guys. It's not going to encourage new listers if we make fun of their questions. We all (or most) at times ask questions which seem basic to others, but the list prides itself on treating everyone the same. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 9 10:42:10 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:42:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Create a Search In-Reply-To: <20040809144959.58682.qmail@web53903.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <013801c47e27$6f676d50$6601a8c0@rock> I googled and got there, but the download part is confusing. I want the Access 2000/+ version. The only link on that page that I can see points to rfil97, not anything higher. Am I supposed to download that and upgrade it? Could be my eyes, which are fading :) TIA, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Nancy Lytle Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:50 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Create a Search Susan, did you check out Steve Nyberg's Rfil report filtering, you can add it to the database and it will let them filter any report based on any field it contains. They can also save the filter for later use. Nancy Lytle -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Mon Aug 9 10:49:04 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:49:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDA6@DISABILITYINS01> Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Mon Aug 9 10:51:16 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:51:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDA8@DISABILITYINS01> LOL. So THAT'S why I fail so miserably getting my points across. ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Hear, hear! The best qualities of a good teacher are humility and patience. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Be fair guys. It's not going to encourage new listers if we make fun of their questions. We all (or most) at times ask questions which seem basic to others, but the list prides itself on treating everyone the same. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Aug 9 10:55:18 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:55:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FED1B@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> John, Magic (unexplained) numbers are always problematic. But if: i = 1 to lngRecordCount... Should we still need to expand on i? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 10:55:42 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 08:55:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: What, JC agreeing with me?? Has anyone checked the temperature in Hell lately? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Mon Aug 9 10:57:40 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:57:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED195@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Thanks to everyone who responded. Seems I threw a stone in the pond. :) I guess I should have explained the situation more clearly (I was in a bit of a rush). The 'details' are both objects and rows in a table. They are objects as far as the front end is concerned but generated on the fly according to definitions held in a table. They are part of a 3rd party system which is written in Informix and over which I have no back-end control. The table is set up as follows: CODE TEXT DATE MARKER VALUE MANDATORY Y/N ...and with a few other bits of info. There is no facility to autonumber the 'details' although the code does have to be unique. When creating a new code you can see the existing codes so you could potentially just pick the next number. I can see the point about autonumber PKs and yes, strictly speaking the code field is the PK on this table. My usual approach, when creating a lookup for example, is that I would use an autonumber, plus a 'friendly' code, plus the full description. When creating joins you can use the autonumber, when running reports & so forth (we run an awful lot of one-off reports) you can use the friendly code. I take the point about not stuffing a load of information into a single code, and would ideally set up several category columns. Unfortunately I don't have the option. The real problem is that anyone developing in this system has to work with the codes. There are several places in the bespoke development environment where you can see the code but not the description. We have inherited a mixture of meaningful codes and numeric codes from earlier development projects and we find the numeric ones almost impossible to remember, thus slowing us down while we go hunt out the correct code. There are several thousand 'details' in the system. Anyway, having read all your input and discussed this with my team I decided to impose my world view on the contractor >.< I hope y'all won't hate me for being one of those nasty clients :( Roz -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: 04 August 2004 19:01 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? What do you mean by 'details'? If you are referring to data within the tables, then you should really split things into separate fields. If a record is for a 'current phase' of development, then you create a phase of development field. If you are talking about object names.....I would go with your approach. My personal opinion of naming conventions is that you should use what makes sense to you, and the system you are working on. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 7:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? << File: ATT04991.txt >> << File: ATT04992.txt >> Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 11:03:05 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:03:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: May I point out that you previously said these variables represented longs because you *always* use longs as counters. Now you're saying they're "counting integers". It seems you've demonstrated the problem I raised quite nicely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 8:49 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 9 11:26:33 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:26:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDA8@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <014301c47e2d$a2b426c0$6601a8c0@rock> ROFL! Not to divert this thread into the OT group, but I just had an experience I feel obligated to share, and it's on point. I play a musical instrument called tabla; for those unacquainted with tabla, it's a pair of drums, one bass and one treble, as it were. Tabla are core instruments in Indian, Pakistani, Afghani and generally Persian musics (with variations in Morroccan etc. musics). Recently the son of one of my closest friends visited me for a few days. He's 18 and a drummer (kit, as in standard Rock kit), but when he was 11 I introduced him to tabla. And on this recent visit he told me that I was his inspiration to become a drummer. That is a most gratifying feeling! Last Thursday Sean and I visited my tabla teacher, who is without question one of the finest tabla players in the world, and almost certainly the finest in "singing the notes" (i.e. every tabla stroke has a name, and there exists notation for stupid white folks such as myself, but the method begins at "singing the notes" and then once you can sing it you can simply type it out. Ritesh is IMO the best in the world at "singing the notes". Anyway, young Sean and I went to a rehearsal of the Toronto Tabla Ensemble. We heard the group practise three or four compositions repeatedly. Young Sean got into it -- hell, he was transported! I looked at his face and his fingers tapping on his thighs and it was beautiful. He has WAY more talent than I. After 20 years of study, I remain a lousy player of tabla. Not Sean! After my brief introduction and induction into a rehearsal with one of the finest in the world, Sean is Gone, I daresay. The point of this story is this: we walked in a little late, when they were already rehearsing. Ritesh spotted us and while the group was playing, he stopped and said, "Hey, Arthur! This must be your friend Sean!" (I had told Ritesh we were coming.) They continued the rehearsal and when it was time to take a break, Ritesh came to us and shook my hand and turned to Sean and said, "Welcome, Sean. I hear Arthur was your inspiration." Sean lives in Boston, and Ritesh immediately connected him with a few tabla players in that city. One of the finest tabla players in the world, Ritesh is utterly without ego/snob/primadonna pretensions. He trusted the fact that I brought Sean there as evidence enough. Perhaps I'm not even part of the loop. Had Sean gone there himself, Ritesh would undoubtedly treated him the same. Drums are his life, and anyone interested is therefore a friend. Occasionally, I too teach courses. I'm trying to keep the model of Ritesh in my mind. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. LOL. So THAT'S why I fail so miserably getting my points across. ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Hear, hear! The best qualities of a good teacher are humility and patience. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Be fair guys. It's not going to encourage new listers if we make fun of their questions. We all (or most) at times ask questions which seem basic to others, but the list prides itself on treating everyone the same. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 9 11:27:34 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:27:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDA6@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <014401c47e2d$c708d750$6601a8c0@rock> If it's in a comment why does it need to be in the code? A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 11:39:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:39:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: Drew, You also posted in Woody's Lounge, but I'll repeat some of my response here for the archives. I have DoEvents in my code, and it makes no difference. There was a Jet 4.0 issue mentioned in an MSKB article on A2k, but I haven't found anything specific for AXP. I'm assuming that this may be the culprit, since the symptoms are quite odd, and once the error occurs, it will keep occurring and continue for hundreds of recurrences. Let me clarify the situation: when I said the same file was being imported repeatedly, I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer interval has elapsed. What appears to happen is that after several hundred reiterations of this process, the data simply doesn't get imported and we get a log like this: Started at: 05:14 06-Aug-04 File successfully unzipped. Warning: Application and Export File Version Difference! Data Exported from Application Version: 4.19 Date: 17-Dec-2002 Data Imported into Application Version: 4.50 Date: 22-Apr-2004 Data updated to Temporary Tables Data successfully loaded in Temporary Tables There are no Well-related records remaining in this data import after removing all Write-protected records. Import aborted due to Unit Configuration errors in import file. Completed at: 05:14 06-Aug-04 Elapsed Time: 0 mins 1 secs The fact is, there is data in the comma-delimited text files, but it is NOT loaded into the temporary tables this time, nor at any future time until Access is restarted. Instead, you get a series of 3310 errors: "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet." The error is meaningless in context, but there it is. There is nothing wrong with the import specs, since they work after Access is restarted, but TransferText appears to break down entirely. In fact, you can't even use it from the immediate window because you get the same kind of error. That "memory leak" type of behavior echoes the reported problems with Jet 4 in A2k. Unfortunately, I can't find the reference to that MSKB article at the moment (of course), so I can't be more specific, and as I recall it was supposed to have been cured by one of the earlier Jet 4 service packs. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:17 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Okay, did a little testing on my own, with Access 97. Used the following code: Dim i Do Until i=-1 docmd.TransferText ....... i=i+1 Me.lblStatus.Caption="Importing: " & i 'DoEvents Loop Now, as is, above, the code Kicked up an 2051 error when i=11593 (It had imported 46372 records). Stopping the code, compacting the database, repairing the database, nothing would let the code start up again (without immediately kicking up that error message....which said something along the lines of a dialog box was not clicked or something.....), until I closed Access, and opened it up again, then it started right back up. Next time, it didn't error, it just hung. It sat at a record level of ~120,000 for about ten minutes, then I just killed it. No error, but it was definitely failing. Once I remove the quote before DoEvents, so that it would run, it seems to just fly, with no stopping. As I'm typing this, it's imported the records 1.5 million times and still going. Here's my theory. Jet is multi-threaded. I've had a little experience with multi-threading VB projects. One thing I know with doing that, is you have to be EXTREMELY careful when accessing a database. In fact, it is almost mandatory to force only one thread to do db transactions. If two threads try db transactions 'simultaneously', all sorts of things will happen (from just losing the thread, all the way to corrupting the database....not kidding...). The reason is that Windows isn't really paying attention to what a thread is doing when it gives time to the next one. So if two threads hit the db at the right time, it can REALLY get goofy. I'm sure the developers had that in mind when creating the TransferText method, however, they also probably didn't count on someone importing a file over and over and over, without a break. So what is probably happening, is that you are getting 'thread lock', where one or more of Jet's threads are locked, and there is nothing you can do about it, until you close Access, which will release the Jet threads. Now, I think putting in a DoEvents simply let's the VBA pause long enough to let the Jet threads finish what they need too, before being called again. Hope this helps in someway. Drew P.S. (It's now at 1.78 mill and counting....with the DoEvents....) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:49 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Cc: Steve White Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Mon Aug 9 11:30:58 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:30:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE4C@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> We should definitely eschew obfuscation! The main reason I using naming conventions is I hate running across old unreadable code and realizing I was the idiot who wrote it :-(. On the other hand, the only way I will give up my x, y and i counters is when they pry them from my cold, dead hands . These are my last links with days of old when real men programmed in assembler, Fortran was cutting edge, etc., etc. This recalls a discussion sometime ago when one of our younger cohorts asked what was wrong with generating an error to test for a condition in code such as On Error Resume Next Set appExcel = GetObject(, "Excel.Application") Excel_is_running = (Err.Number = 0) The answer is nothing is wrong but I shuttered nonetheless. I avoid code like that and I guess it goes back to the FORTRAN days when one itty bitty error would generate pages of error codes . Hey, we can't deny our roots. If you want my rationalization a) my loops are short enough that the meaning of the counter is intrinsically obvious to the casual observer and b) I find array(x,y) easier to follow and read than array(somehumongousmultidimensionalname,yetanotherincrediblyingenious name) in fun, Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 11:57:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:57:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: Unfortunately, I would have to rewrite the application to do that, Gustav. If I were importing a single file, it might be OK, but we are unzipping a file that may contain text files exported from any group of the data tables in our application. We have to loop through the individual tables, see if a text file for that table has been included, and import the data appropriately into a temporary table where any type or units conversion and internationalization issues can be handled before moving the data into the main tables. We also have to deal with files that might have been created by an earlier version of our application, which means they may require special temporary tables to match the shape used in that earlier version. You get the idea. It would be a nightmare to build and maintain direct file I/O routines in code, complete with special handling. I could do it, but my bosses would scream for a week ... And then catch their breath and start over again. :-{ Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Hi Charlotte The fail on TransferText is probably only a sympton not the error. Or maybe it is; it uses the "external ISAM" I guess. Nevertheless, you could try replacing the TransferText routine with a simple "Open File and read in line by line" routine. I'm sure you know how to this. It may even be faster than TransferText. /gustav > I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the > archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so > I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does > nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To > stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a > zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each > compatible with a table in the database structure) to import > repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves > beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily > imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and > starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for > external data sources or for databases created with a previous version > of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this > is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. > After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI > until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the > database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, > because the module level and global variables are still populated. I > can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access > can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out > of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and > see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can > replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across > machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of > *when* it breaks vary slightly. > I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, > but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. > Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > Charlotte Foust > Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 11:59:29 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:59:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: Thanks, but I'm not using Office 2003. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MG [mailto:mgauk at btconnect.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Steve White Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may hold some answers for you. Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Cc: Steve White Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 9 12:15:30 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 19:15:30 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5639498435.20040809191530@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte I understand that. That leaves you with the DoEvent trick from Drew and the tip on monitoring threads from Stuart ... Also, did you check on the printer driver? I know this is a long shot but I've seen so many problems related to these at the latest, indeed for drivers for the modern mega-copy-printer-scan beasts. Would you keep us posted on progress solving this issue? /gustav > Unfortunately, I would have to rewrite the application to do that, > Gustav. If I were importing a single file, it might be OK, but we are > unzipping a file that may contain text files exported from any group of > the data tables in our application. We have to loop through the > individual tables, see if a text file for that table has been included, > and import the data appropriately into a temporary table where any type > or units conversion and internationalization issues can be handled > before moving the data into the main tables. We also have to deal with > files that might have been created by an earlier version of our > application, which means they may require special temporary tables to > match the shape used in that earlier version. You get the idea. It > would be a nightmare to build and maintain direct file I/O routines in > code, complete with special handling. I could do it, but my bosses > would scream for a week ... And then catch their breath and start over > again. :-{ > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > Hi Charlotte > The fail on TransferText is probably only a sympton not the error. Or > maybe it is; it uses the "external ISAM" I guess. > Nevertheless, you could try replacing the TransferText routine with a > simple "Open File and read in line by line" routine. I'm sure you know > how to this. It may even be faster than TransferText. > /gustav >> I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >> archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >> I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >> nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >> stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >> zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >> compatible with a table in the database structure) to import >> repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves >> beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily >> imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and >> starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >> external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >> of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this >> is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. >> After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >> until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >> database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >> because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >> can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >> can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >> of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >> see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >> replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >> machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >> *when* it breaks vary slightly. >> I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >> but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >> Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? >> Charlotte Foust >> Infostat Systems, Inc. From lytlenj at yahoo.com Mon Aug 9 12:18:02 2004 From: lytlenj at yahoo.com (Nancy Lytle) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Create a Search In-Reply-To: <013801c47e27$6f676d50$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040809171802.90117.qmail@web53905.mail.yahoo.com> >From the site (see below) it says you can just download and import into a 2000 db, if DAO is referenced or you can upgrade it to 2000 first. Nancy >From the site http://www.mile50.com/access/index.htm : >>>This version can be upgraded to Access 2000, or it can be imported directly into an existing Access 2000 database if it has a reference to DAO. (follow the steps listed in the caution below to set a DAO reference, but don't prioritize DAO above ADO.) Note that new Access 2000 databases DO NOT have the DAO reference by default. You must manually add the reference if you want RFil to work in your new Access 2000 database. Finally, RFil will work in Access 2000 .mdb/.mde/.mda files only - current versions do not work for .adp/.ade files. <<<<< --- Arthur Fuller wrote: > I googled and got there, but the download part is > confusing. I want the > Access 2000/+ version. The only link on that page > that I can see points > to rfil97, not anything higher. Am I supposed to > download that and > upgrade it? > > Could be my eyes, which are fading :) > > TIA, > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Nancy Lytle > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:50 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Create a Search > > > Susan, did you check out Steve Nyberg's Rfil report > filtering, you can add it to the database and it > will > let them filter any report based on any field it > contains. They can also save the filter for later > use. > > Nancy Lytle > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 13:06:30 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:06:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: I was already using DoEvents. We have simple deskjets in the office, and I see the same behavior on machines with no printer at all. Remember, we aren't printing anything and there aren't any reports involved, we're just importing files and logging information to tables or to text files. I haven't had a chance to review Stuart's suggestions yet. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Hi Charlotte I understand that. That leaves you with the DoEvent trick from Drew and the tip on monitoring threads from Stuart ... Also, did you check on the printer driver? I know this is a long shot but I've seen so many problems related to these at the latest, indeed for drivers for the modern mega-copy-printer-scan beasts. Would you keep us posted on progress solving this issue? /gustav > Unfortunately, I would have to rewrite the application to do that, > Gustav. If I were importing a single file, it might be OK, but we are > unzipping a file that may contain text files exported from any group > of the data tables in our application. We have to loop through the > individual tables, see if a text file for that table has been > included, and import the data appropriately into a temporary table > where any type or units conversion and internationalization issues can > be handled before moving the data into the main tables. We also have > to deal with files that might have been created by an earlier version > of our application, which means they may require special temporary > tables to match the shape used in that earlier version. You get the > idea. It would be a nightmare to build and maintain direct file I/O > routines in code, complete with special handling. I could do it, but > my bosses would scream for a week ... And then catch their breath and > start over again. :-{ > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > Hi Charlotte > The fail on TransferText is probably only a sympton not the error. Or > maybe it is; it uses the "external ISAM" I guess. > Nevertheless, you could try replacing the TransferText routine with a > simple "Open File and read in line by line" routine. I'm sure you know > how to this. It may even be faster than TransferText. > /gustav >> I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >> archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >> I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >> nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >> stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >> zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >> compatible with a table in the database structure) to import >> repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves >> beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily >> imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and >> starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >> external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >> of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this >> is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. >> After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >> until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >> database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >> because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >> can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >> can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >> of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >> see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >> replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >> machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >> *when* it breaks vary slightly. >> I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >> but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >> Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? >> Charlotte Foust >> Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 9 14:35:19 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 12:35:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 References: Message-ID: <4117D1F7.90103@shaw.ca> If you have some sort of internal Access indexing going wonky after 200 or around 256 file imports, how about using Michael Kaplan's TSI Soon dll to switch out of the database compact it and return. Are you using the FindFirstChangeNotification API a la http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/watchedfolder.htm Charlotte Foust wrote: >Thanks, but I'm not using Office 2003. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: MG [mailto:mgauk at btconnect.com] >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:16 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Cc: Steve White >Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > > >There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may >hold some answers for you. Max Sherman > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: Steve White >Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > >I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip >file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible >with a table in the database >structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the >thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has >happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind >and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is >within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. > >After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >*when* it breaks vary slightly. > >I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but >I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has >anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > >Charlotte Foust >Infostat Systems, Inc. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 15:08:26 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:08:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: What we're doing is checking a folder at intervals for files. There could be a single file or multiples. If we can copy them to another folder, then they have been completely written. We do NOT use the standard method of trying to get a handle because that can cause the file to be truncated instead of fully written. We create an array of the file names we were able to copy and delete those in the monitored folder. Any that arrive while we're processing the current group will be picked up in the next cycle. I'm using Shell to pass information to a Restart.mdb which thus knows what app to restart and the registry key to use for status flags. The two apps semaphore back and forth using the registry and if either of them fails to signal, the process ends. In the restart app, I capture the window handle of the primary app and use a FindWindowText call to make sure that window actually gets closed before I use shell to restart it. Restart works fine as it is. The problem isn't with that, it's with TransferText in the primary application. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 If you have some sort of internal Access indexing going wonky after 200 or around 256 file imports, how about using Michael Kaplan's TSI Soon dll to switch out of the database compact it and return. Are you using the FindFirstChangeNotification API a la http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/watchedfolder.htm Charlotte Foust wrote: >Thanks, but I'm not using Office 2003. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: MG [mailto:mgauk at btconnect.com] >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:16 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Cc: Steve White >Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > > >There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may >hold some answers for you. Max Sherman > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: Steve White >Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > >I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >compatible with a table in the database >structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the >thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has >happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind >and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is >within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. > >After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >*when* it breaks vary slightly. > >I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > >Charlotte Foust >Infostat Systems, Inc. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Aug 9 15:33:03 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:33:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: <30250956.1092082442198.JavaMail.root@sniper3.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000701c47e50$12253bd0$de1811d8@danwaters> Charlotte, I use File System Objects a fair amount, and I can envision using that object model to do what you're describing here. It's fairly simple, no registry keys to work with, TransferText would not be needed, and you'd only need a single application. If you want the help file, search for Script56.chm. The file needed on your PC is scrrun.dll, which is installed by several different MS apps, including Access. You should set a reference to Microsoft Scripting to get early binding. Hope this helps! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 What we're doing is checking a folder at intervals for files. There could be a single file or multiples. If we can copy them to another folder, then they have been completely written. We do NOT use the standard method of trying to get a handle because that can cause the file to be truncated instead of fully written. We create an array of the file names we were able to copy and delete those in the monitored folder. Any that arrive while we're processing the current group will be picked up in the next cycle. I'm using Shell to pass information to a Restart.mdb which thus knows what app to restart and the registry key to use for status flags. The two apps semaphore back and forth using the registry and if either of them fails to signal, the process ends. In the restart app, I capture the window handle of the primary app and use a FindWindowText call to make sure that window actually gets closed before I use shell to restart it. Restart works fine as it is. The problem isn't with that, it's with TransferText in the primary application. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 If you have some sort of internal Access indexing going wonky after 200 or around 256 file imports, how about using Michael Kaplan's TSI Soon dll to switch out of the database compact it and return. Are you using the FindFirstChangeNotification API a la http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/watchedfolder.htm Charlotte Foust wrote: >Thanks, but I'm not using Office 2003. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: MG [mailto:mgauk at btconnect.com] >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:16 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Cc: Steve White >Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > > >There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may >hold some answers for you. Max Sherman > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: Steve White >Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > >I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >compatible with a table in the database >structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the >thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has >happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind >and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is >within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. > >After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >*when* it breaks vary slightly. > >I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > >Charlotte Foust >Infostat Systems, Inc. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 16:24:00 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:24:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: That isn't an option for me, Dan, but thanks for the suggestion. I have to make it work in the situation I described, and it has to work in a commercial application where we have no idea what else the machine or network may have installed/enabled. For that reason, we try to keep everything within Access as much as possible. I am precluded from using ADO because we don't want to deal with the issues of making sure the right version of MDAC is installed, and setting a reference to the scripting library is out of the question because handling reference problems is less than user-friendly for runtime apps. We are not doing especially simple imports, and we're doing other stuff, including updating other parts of the data file to let its parent application know that imports have occurred. The interaction between the applications is a necessary complication. Just so you all know, this app will eventually be rewritten in VB.Net, but for now it stays in AXP. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Charlotte, I use File System Objects a fair amount, and I can envision using that object model to do what you're describing here. It's fairly simple, no registry keys to work with, TransferText would not be needed, and you'd only need a single application. If you want the help file, search for Script56.chm. The file needed on your PC is scrrun.dll, which is installed by several different MS apps, including Access. You should set a reference to Microsoft Scripting to get early binding. Hope this helps! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 What we're doing is checking a folder at intervals for files. There could be a single file or multiples. If we can copy them to another folder, then they have been completely written. We do NOT use the standard method of trying to get a handle because that can cause the file to be truncated instead of fully written. We create an array of the file names we were able to copy and delete those in the monitored folder. Any that arrive while we're processing the current group will be picked up in the next cycle. I'm using Shell to pass information to a Restart.mdb which thus knows what app to restart and the registry key to use for status flags. The two apps semaphore back and forth using the registry and if either of them fails to signal, the process ends. In the restart app, I capture the window handle of the primary app and use a FindWindowText call to make sure that window actually gets closed before I use shell to restart it. Restart works fine as it is. The problem isn't with that, it's with TransferText in the primary application. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 If you have some sort of internal Access indexing going wonky after 200 or around 256 file imports, how about using Michael Kaplan's TSI Soon dll to switch out of the database compact it and return. Are you using the FindFirstChangeNotification API a la http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/watchedfolder.htm Charlotte Foust wrote: >Thanks, but I'm not using Office 2003. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: MG [mailto:mgauk at btconnect.com] >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:16 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Cc: Steve White >Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > > >There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may >hold some answers for you. Max Sherman > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: Steve White >Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > >I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >compatible with a table in the database >structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the >thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has >happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind >and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is >within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. > >After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >*when* it breaks vary slightly. > >I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > >Charlotte Foust >Infostat Systems, Inc. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Aug 9 16:57:39 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:57:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: <16524150.1092087035078.JavaMail.root@sniper7.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <001101c47e5b$e39ae740$de1811d8@danwaters> Well . . . FSO doesn't need ADO. Since this is a commercial app, you probably have an installer package which could ensure that scrrun.dll is there. FSO can also take the full path, base name, or extensions of files and save them to tables, as well as move/copy/delete files and folders. If both your apps are Access, then FSO can work with either or both. Actually, I believe that FSO can be used/referenced by any VB/VBA application, or VB.Net. I would still recommend looking over what FSO can do. If your primary objective is moving/copying/deleting files and/or folders and recording the information related to doing that, FSO could really be a good (and easy) methodology. FSO was specifically designed to make these tasks easier. I won't bug you anymore - and I still wish you luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 That isn't an option for me, Dan, but thanks for the suggestion. I have to make it work in the situation I described, and it has to work in a commercial application where we have no idea what else the machine or network may have installed/enabled. For that reason, we try to keep everything within Access as much as possible. I am precluded from using ADO because we don't want to deal with the issues of making sure the right version of MDAC is installed, and setting a reference to the scripting library is out of the question because handling reference problems is less than user-friendly for runtime apps. We are not doing especially simple imports, and we're doing other stuff, including updating other parts of the data file to let its parent application know that imports have occurred. The interaction between the applications is a necessary complication. Just so you all know, this app will eventually be rewritten in VB.Net, but for now it stays in AXP. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Charlotte, I use File System Objects a fair amount, and I can envision using that object model to do what you're describing here. It's fairly simple, no registry keys to work with, TransferText would not be needed, and you'd only need a single application. If you want the help file, search for Script56.chm. The file needed on your PC is scrrun.dll, which is installed by several different MS apps, including Access. You should set a reference to Microsoft Scripting to get early binding. Hope this helps! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 What we're doing is checking a folder at intervals for files. There could be a single file or multiples. If we can copy them to another folder, then they have been completely written. We do NOT use the standard method of trying to get a handle because that can cause the file to be truncated instead of fully written. We create an array of the file names we were able to copy and delete those in the monitored folder. Any that arrive while we're processing the current group will be picked up in the next cycle. I'm using Shell to pass information to a Restart.mdb which thus knows what app to restart and the registry key to use for status flags. The two apps semaphore back and forth using the registry and if either of them fails to signal, the process ends. In the restart app, I capture the window handle of the primary app and use a FindWindowText call to make sure that window actually gets closed before I use shell to restart it. Restart works fine as it is. The problem isn't with that, it's with TransferText in the primary application. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 If you have some sort of internal Access indexing going wonky after 200 or around 256 file imports, how about using Michael Kaplan's TSI Soon dll to switch out of the database compact it and return. Are you using the FindFirstChangeNotification API a la http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/watchedfolder.htm Charlotte Foust wrote: >Thanks, but I'm not using Office 2003. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: MG [mailto:mgauk at btconnect.com] >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:16 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Cc: Steve White >Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > > >There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may >hold some answers for you. Max Sherman > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: Steve White >Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > >I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >compatible with a table in the database >structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the >thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has >happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind >and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is >within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. > >After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >*when* it breaks vary slightly. > >I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > >Charlotte Foust >Infostat Systems, Inc. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 17:25:05 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:25:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: This app piggybacks on one of our standard apps. I do not have the liberty of rewriting it, even if it would make it better. I can only make it work. Sorry if I seem grouchy. I appreciate the suggestions everyone is making. I just don't have the freedom to implement them. :-{ I realize that FSO has nothing to do with ADO, that was merely an example of the limitations I have to observe. We do use FSO for some file handling, but not for this because it isn't just importing and logging the files, which would be straightforward. We aren't merely saving files to tables, we are unzipping a file containing changed records for any of a number of tables, importing them one table at a time through IMEX specs into matching temp tables, handling internationalization issues, and validating information among those tables and the main data tables prior to moving the related records into the main tables. Even the order in which the data files are imported is critical and is determined by a value for each table in the front end app. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 1:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Well . . . FSO doesn't need ADO. Since this is a commercial app, you probably have an installer package which could ensure that scrrun.dll is there. FSO can also take the full path, base name, or extensions of files and save them to tables, as well as move/copy/delete files and folders. If both your apps are Access, then FSO can work with either or both. Actually, I believe that FSO can be used/referenced by any VB/VBA application, or VB.Net. I would still recommend looking over what FSO can do. If your primary objective is moving/copying/deleting files and/or folders and recording the information related to doing that, FSO could really be a good (and easy) methodology. FSO was specifically designed to make these tasks easier. I won't bug you anymore - and I still wish you luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 4:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 That isn't an option for me, Dan, but thanks for the suggestion. I have to make it work in the situation I described, and it has to work in a commercial application where we have no idea what else the machine or network may have installed/enabled. For that reason, we try to keep everything within Access as much as possible. I am precluded from using ADO because we don't want to deal with the issues of making sure the right version of MDAC is installed, and setting a reference to the scripting library is out of the question because handling reference problems is less than user-friendly for runtime apps. We are not doing especially simple imports, and we're doing other stuff, including updating other parts of the data file to let its parent application know that imports have occurred. The interaction between the applications is a necessary complication. Just so you all know, this app will eventually be rewritten in VB.Net, but for now it stays in AXP. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Charlotte, I use File System Objects a fair amount, and I can envision using that object model to do what you're describing here. It's fairly simple, no registry keys to work with, TransferText would not be needed, and you'd only need a single application. If you want the help file, search for Script56.chm. The file needed on your PC is scrrun.dll, which is installed by several different MS apps, including Access. You should set a reference to Microsoft Scripting to get early binding. Hope this helps! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 What we're doing is checking a folder at intervals for files. There could be a single file or multiples. If we can copy them to another folder, then they have been completely written. We do NOT use the standard method of trying to get a handle because that can cause the file to be truncated instead of fully written. We create an array of the file names we were able to copy and delete those in the monitored folder. Any that arrive while we're processing the current group will be picked up in the next cycle. I'm using Shell to pass information to a Restart.mdb which thus knows what app to restart and the registry key to use for status flags. The two apps semaphore back and forth using the registry and if either of them fails to signal, the process ends. In the restart app, I capture the window handle of the primary app and use a FindWindowText call to make sure that window actually gets closed before I use shell to restart it. Restart works fine as it is. The problem isn't with that, it's with TransferText in the primary application. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 If you have some sort of internal Access indexing going wonky after 200 or around 256 file imports, how about using Michael Kaplan's TSI Soon dll to switch out of the database compact it and return. Are you using the FindFirstChangeNotification API a la http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/fileapi/watchedfolder.htm Charlotte Foust wrote: >Thanks, but I'm not using Office 2003. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: MG [mailto:mgauk at btconnect.com] >Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 12:16 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Cc: Steve White >Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > > >There's a new update for Office 2003 called Service Pack 1. This may >hold some answers for you. Max Sherman > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: 05 August 2004 22:49 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: Steve White >Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > >I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >compatible with a table in the database >structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the >thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has >happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind >and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is >within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. > >After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >*when* it breaks vary slightly. > >I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? > >Charlotte Foust >Infostat Systems, Inc. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 02/08/2004 > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Aug 9 18:14:35 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:14:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <411891FB.4660.166D0105@lexacorp.com.pg> On 9 Aug 2004 at 9:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another > folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into temporary > tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved from the > temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and the next > check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer interval has > elapsed. > If you are filling and clearing temporary tables hundreds of times, are you sure it's not a case of the database bloating - either until it hits the 2GB barrier or the workstation runs out of space on the working drive? -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Aug 9 18:23:18 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:23:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: <012e01c47e1c$855571d0$6601a8c0@rock> References: <01c501c47dca$4818ff00$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <41189406.3435.1674FBFD@lexacorp.com.pg> On 9 Aug 2004 at 10:24, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > replace([ColumnOfInterest],"-","") > > Substitute the actual column name for [ColumnOfInterest]. Run the query > and you're done. > Sorry Arthur, but it doesn't work like that - you just get an error saying "undefined function replace" That's why I wrote the function myReplace() -- Stuart From CMackin at Quiznos.com Mon Aug 9 18:37:30 2004 From: CMackin at Quiznos.com (Mackin, Christopher) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:37:30 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Message-ID: Replace() is only in Access 2000 and beyond, I'm using XP and can use the syntax described by Arthur without issue. -Chris Mackin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 5:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. On 9 Aug 2004 at 10:24, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > replace([ColumnOfInterest],"-","") > > Substitute the actual column name for [ColumnOfInterest]. Run the query > and you're done. > Sorry Arthur, but it doesn't work like that - you just get an error saying "undefined function replace" That's why I wrote the function myReplace() -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Aug 9 18:49:03 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:49:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED195@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: Roz: Good for you. Developers need to know their place. The only thing that is more arrogant than one developer is two developers. Who's paying the bills anyway. :-) .... OK; so I could not resist to pull a few chains. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 8:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Thanks to everyone who responded. Seems I threw a stone in the pond. :) I guess I should have explained the situation more clearly (I was in a bit of a rush). The 'details' are both objects and rows in a table. They are objects as far as the front end is concerned but generated on the fly according to definitions held in a table. They are part of a 3rd party system which is written in Informix and over which I have no back-end control. The table is set up as follows: CODE TEXT DATE MARKER VALUE MANDATORY Y/N ...and with a few other bits of info. There is no facility to autonumber the 'details' although the code does have to be unique. When creating a new code you can see the existing codes so you could potentially just pick the next number. I can see the point about autonumber PKs and yes, strictly speaking the code field is the PK on this table. My usual approach, when creating a lookup for example, is that I would use an autonumber, plus a 'friendly' code, plus the full description. When creating joins you can use the autonumber, when running reports & so forth (we run an awful lot of one-off reports) you can use the friendly code. I take the point about not stuffing a load of information into a single code, and would ideally set up several category columns. Unfortunately I don't have the option. The real problem is that anyone developing in this system has to work with the codes. There are several places in the bespoke development environment where you can see the code but not the description. We have inherited a mixture of meaningful codes and numeric codes from earlier development projects and we find the numeric ones almost impossible to remember, thus slowing us down while we go hunt out the correct code. There are several thousand 'details' in the system. Anyway, having read all your input and discussed this with my team I decided to impose my world view on the contractor >.< I hope y'all won't hate me for being one of those nasty clients :( Roz -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: 04 August 2004 19:01 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? What do you mean by 'details'? If you are referring to data within the tables, then you should really split things into separate fields. If a record is for a 'current phase' of development, then you create a phase of development field. If you are talking about object names.....I would go with your approach. My personal opinion of naming conventions is that you should use what makes sense to you, and the system you are working on. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 7:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? << File: ATT04991.txt >> << File: ATT04992.txt >> Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Aug 9 18:53:48 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:53:48 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <41189B2C.6196.1690EA80@lexacorp.com.pg> On 9 Aug 2004 at 17:37, Mackin, Christopher wrote: > Replace() is only in Access 2000 and beyond, I'm using XP and can use the syntax described by Arthur without issue. > Hmmm, interesting. Although Replace() is a function in A2K, it doesn't work in an A2K query. -- Stuart From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 18:54:36 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:54:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: No, I've checked that. It takes over 80,000 imports to make the db get up to 1.5 Gb without any compact on close (tested it). We do a compact on close to compact the file when it is shutdown and restarted. The restart app keeps checking to make sure the window has completely closed before it tries to restart the application in order to handle the compact on close delay. In the test situation, we're overwriting the same data repeatedly to the same folder, and the temp files are being deleted after import, so the space should be available for reuse. I have seen no indication that memory use is spiking or that is is even approaching the limits. The free space on the drive doesn't appear to be suffering, nor does the available resouces for other apps. Between restarts, the database bloats up to 50MB to 150MB, depending on how many zip files we use in the test. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 On 9 Aug 2004 at 9:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another > folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into > temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved > from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and > the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer > interval has elapsed. > If you are filling and clearing temporary tables hundreds of times, are you sure it's not a case of the database bloating - either until it hits the 2GB barrier or the workstation runs out of space on the working drive? -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 9 18:57:36 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:57:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. Message-ID: No, that's one of the shortcomings of Access 2000. It works in queries in XP. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Edit contents of field. On 9 Aug 2004 at 17:37, Mackin, Christopher wrote: > Replace() is only in Access 2000 and beyond, I'm using XP and can use > the syntax described by Arthur without issue. > Hmmm, interesting. Although Replace() is a function in A2K, it doesn't work in an A2K query. -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Aug 9 19:19:38 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 20:19:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE4C@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <000e01c47e6f$bce65da0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> LOL, yep, it generally does go back to "I'm old and set in my ways and that's the way I want to do it". Believe me, I use that a lot these days. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions We should definitely eschew obfuscation! The main reason I using naming conventions is I hate running across old unreadable code and realizing I was the idiot who wrote it :-(. On the other hand, the only way I will give up my x, y and i counters is when they pry them from my cold, dead hands . These are my last links with days of old when real men programmed in assembler, Fortran was cutting edge, etc., etc. This recalls a discussion sometime ago when one of our younger cohorts asked what was wrong with generating an error to test for a condition in code such as On Error Resume Next Set appExcel = GetObject(, "Excel.Application") Excel_is_running = (Err.Number = 0) The answer is nothing is wrong but I shuttered nonetheless. I avoid code like that and I guess it goes back to the FORTRAN days when one itty bitty error would generate pages of error codes . Hey, we can't deny our roots. If you want my rationalization a) my loops are short enough that the meaning of the counter is intrinsically obvious to the casual observer and b) I find array(x,y) easier to follow and read than array(somehumongousmultidimensionalname,yetanotherincrediblyingenious name) in fun, Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Aug 9 19:21:55 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 20:21:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FED1B@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <000f01c47e70$0b4c6750$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Well, if that is the ONLY place the I is used then probably not. If down in the following code I is used 47 times then yea, probably. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, Magic (unexplained) numbers are always problematic. But if: i = 1 to lngRecordCount... Should we still need to expand on i? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Aug 9 19:22:44 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 20:22:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c47e70$2b40a3f0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Shhhhhhh! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What, JC agreeing with me?? Has anyone checked the temperature in Hell lately? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 9 20:38:41 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:38:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040810013855.OHTA1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 9 20:40:27 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:40:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <000e01c47e6f$bce65da0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20040810014027.OIKQ1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> JC, we're not interested in your fatherly advice... Just your developer expertise. ;) Susan H. LOL, yep, it generally does go back to "I'm old and set in my ways and that's the way I want to do it". Believe me, I use that a lot these days. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Aug 9 20:55:02 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:55:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <20040810014027.OIKQ1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000101c47e7d$109d1bc0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> >JC, we're not interested in your fatherly advice... Just your developer expertise. ;) So... I really am useless then! 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions JC, we're not interested in your fatherly advice... Just your developer expertise. ;) Susan H. LOL, yep, it generally does go back to "I'm old and set in my ways and that's the way I want to do it". Believe me, I use that a lot these days. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Mon Aug 9 21:31:34 2004 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:31:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Scrolling in Code Window!! Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D01011AB7@ddi-01.DDI.local> Julie, Look at http://www.mvps.org/btmtz/treeview/ TVDragDrop is the VB sample project you want, though there is heaps Of other good bits here as well. Cheers Michael M Hi group, This is something that will work in the code window, but what about scrolling on a form? Can I use this on an Access form to scroll in a tree view control when I want to drag and drop from the top of one node to the top of another node. The second node is below the window, and when I try to drop my item, moving my mouse down the form, I cannot go beyond the existing window. Cannot find anything in the knowledge base that relates to this issue. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 10 04:24:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:24:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1407970841.20040810112409@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte OK. Then I have another suggestion which is working successfully for me. If you are not creating temp queries and the like, write-protect the application file. At the same time that eliminates any need for compacting etc. If you are importing the text files into the app itself, move those tables to an external, temp base. You don't even need to compact that as you can create it from scratch when needed (at launch of the app and/or after a finished import, prior to the next). /gustav > I was already using DoEvents. We have simple deskjets in the office, > and I see the same behavior on machines with no printer at all. > Remember, we aren't printing anything and there aren't any reports > involved, we're just importing files and logging information to tables > or to text files. > I haven't had a chance to review Stuart's suggestions yet. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:15 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 > Hi Charlotte > I understand that. > That leaves you with the DoEvent trick from Drew and the tip on > monitoring threads from Stuart ... > Also, did you check on the printer driver? I know this is a long shot > but I've seen so many problems related to these at the latest, indeed > for drivers for the modern mega-copy-printer-scan beasts. > Would you keep us posted on progress solving this issue? > /gustav >> Unfortunately, I would have to rewrite the application to do that, >> Gustav. If I were importing a single file, it might be OK, but we are >> unzipping a file that may contain text files exported from any group >> of the data tables in our application. We have to loop through the >> individual tables, see if a text file for that table has been >> included, and import the data appropriately into a temporary table >> where any type or units conversion and internationalization issues can >> be handled before moving the data into the main tables. We also have >> to deal with files that might have been created by an earlier version >> of our application, which means they may require special temporary >> tables to match the shape used in that earlier version. You get the >> idea. It would be a nightmare to build and maintain direct file I/O >> routines in code, complete with special handling. I could do it, but >> my bosses would scream for a week ... And then catch their breath and >> start over again. :-{ >> Charlotte Foust >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 4:51 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 >> Hi Charlotte >> The fail on TransferText is probably only a sympton not the error. Or >> maybe it is; it uses the "external ISAM" I guess. >> Nevertheless, you could try replacing the TransferText routine with a >> simple "Open File and read in line by line" routine. I'm sure you know >> how to this. It may even be faster than TransferText. >> /gustav >>> I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the >>> archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so >>> I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does >>> nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To >>> stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a >>> zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each >>> compatible with a table in the database structure) to import >>> repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves >>> beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily >>> imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and >>> starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for >>> external data sources or for databases created with a previous version >>> of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this >>> is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. >>> After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI >>> until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the >>> database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, >>> because the module level and global variables are still populated. I >>> can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access >>> can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out >>> of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and >>> see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can >>> replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across >>> machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of >>> *when* it breaks vary slightly. >>> I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, >>> but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. >>> Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? >>> Charlotte Foust >>> Infostat Systems, Inc. From marcus at tsstech.com Tue Aug 10 06:11:37 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 07:11:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Tue Aug 10 06:21:02 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 07:21:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I forget who mentioned something like this... If I < 90 Then 'some code here End If 'I but I SOMETIMES do the following in complex code... If intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Then 'some code here End If 'intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Anyone else do this? I usually just break up the complex code into functions/procedures. Scott Marcus From michael.broesdorf at web.de Tue Aug 10 06:44:16 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:44:16 +0200 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yep, I do that in complex, multi-level if-structures. Michael -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Scott Marcus Gesendet: Dienstag, 10. August 2004 13:21 An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Betreff: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I forget who mentioned something like this... If I < 90 Then 'some code here End If 'I but I SOMETIMES do the following in complex code... If intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Then 'some code here End If 'intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Anyone else do this? I usually just break up the complex code into functions/procedures. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 10 10:30:22 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:30:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Yep. I do it, and my boss hates it, although the other developers appreciate it. My boss feels that that extra green text makes the code *hard* to read and is unnecessary is short routines. My feeling is that I never know what might get inserted into the middle and it's easier to keep track if you comment the code when you write it. I had an instructor who insisted on this kind of commenting even for declarations and at the end of a function or sub. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I forget who mentioned something like this... If I < 90 Then 'some code here End If 'I but I SOMETIMES do the following in complex code... If intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Then 'some code here End If 'intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Anyone else do this? I usually just break up the complex code into functions/procedures. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DElam at jenkens.com Tue Aug 10 12:43:00 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:43:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485315@natexch.jenkens.com> I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. Debbie - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From kens.programming at verizon.net Tue Aug 10 12:51:04 2004 From: kens.programming at verizon.net (Ken Stoker) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:51:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report In-Reply-To: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485315@natexch.jenkens.com> Message-ID: <20040810174941.KCJP14580.out011.verizon.net@enterprise> Debbie, Do you have any other objects like lines that are hard to see but extend beyond the margins you want to shrink to? I have often tried to do this cannibalism at time myself and run into the same frustrating situation until I realize I have a line that needs to be shrunk as well. Ken -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Aug 10 12:57:24 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:57:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report In-Reply-To: <31556299.1092160102321.JavaMail.root@sniper2.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <001f01c47f03$7e23c780$de1811d8@danwaters> One thing that occasionally gets me is a line that is 'hidden' next to one of the gray section dividers. If you drag your cursor across these dividers, you'll select the line, then you can move it. Try selecting all objects (Ctrl+A) to see if any objects are selected at the right edge of the report. If any have the same color as the background of your report (probably white) then you'll know they are there. Try making a copy of your reports, then select all objects (ctrl+A), then delete all the objects. If you can now resize your report, then one of the objects was the problem. Also, try checking Page Setup to see what page width you've set up. HTH! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. Debbie - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DElam at jenkens.com Tue Aug 10 12:59:59 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:59:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485316@natexch.jenkens.com> I have 4 lines the width of the report and cannot find more. I have print previewed the report and do not see any lines extending into the area I am trying to shrink. I have also dragged my pointer across the blank area to see if a line would select. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Ken Stoker [mailto:kens.programming at verizon.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report Debbie, Do you have any other objects like lines that are hard to see but extend beyond the margins you want to shrink to? I have often tried to do this cannibalism at time myself and run into the same frustrating situation until I realize I have a line that needs to be shrunk as well. Ken -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 10 13:04:16 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 20:04:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report In-Reply-To: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485316@natexch.jenkens.com> References: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485316@natexch.jenkens.com> Message-ID: <6639177193.20040810200416@cactus.dk> Hi Debbie Did you double check the paper/page settings, colums etc.? /gustav > I have 4 lines the width of the report and cannot find more. I have print > previewed the report and do not see any lines extending into the area I am > trying to shrink. I have also dragged my pointer across the blank area to > see if a line would select. > Debbie --- > Do you have any other objects like lines that are hard to see but extend > beyond the margins you want to shrink to? I have often tried to do this > cannibalism at time myself and run into the same frustrating situation until > I realize I have a line that needs to be shrunk as well. > Ken > I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many > attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a > portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not > resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of > the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. > Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have > dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but > have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different > printers and that has not stopped the problem. From DElam at jenkens.com Tue Aug 10 13:09:15 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:09:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485317@natexch.jenkens.com> Well the drag I already tried, but the ctrl-A and deleting all objects broke the spell. I guess I will see if I can find the object again. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report One thing that occasionally gets me is a line that is 'hidden' next to one of the gray section dividers. If you drag your cursor across these dividers, you'll select the line, then you can move it. Try selecting all objects (Ctrl+A) to see if any objects are selected at the right edge of the report. If any have the same color as the background of your report (probably white) then you'll know they are there. Try making a copy of your reports, then select all objects (ctrl+A), then delete all the objects. If you can now resize your report, then one of the objects was the problem. Also, try checking Page Setup to see what page width you've set up. HTH! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. Debbie - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Aug 10 13:30:06 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:30:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report In-Reply-To: <4965841.1092161866346.JavaMail.root@sniper12.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000201c47f08$0f755470$de1811d8@danwaters> Great! Next, make another report copy and delete all the objects you can see. Then go to the Report Design toolbar where on the left side you can see the word Report. Click on the drop-down list. This will give you a list of all the objects that remain in the report. From the list you can click on each one to select it. Select those objects one by one and you'll find the offender! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report Well the drag I already tried, but the ctrl-A and deleting all objects broke the spell. I guess I will see if I can find the object again. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report One thing that occasionally gets me is a line that is 'hidden' next to one of the gray section dividers. If you drag your cursor across these dividers, you'll select the line, then you can move it. Try selecting all objects (Ctrl+A) to see if any objects are selected at the right edge of the report. If any have the same color as the background of your report (probably white) then you'll know they are there. Try making a copy of your reports, then select all objects (ctrl+A), then delete all the objects. If you can now resize your report, then one of the objects was the problem. Also, try checking Page Setup to see what page width you've set up. HTH! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. Debbie - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DElam at jenkens.com Tue Aug 10 13:38:39 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:38:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485318@natexch.jenkens.com> Found it! Still can't see the blasted thing, but selecting all then unselecting the visible objects one at a time left line44 which I deleted. I am still not sure where it is, but it is gone. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report Great! Next, make another report copy and delete all the objects you can see. Then go to the Report Design toolbar where on the left side you can see the word Report. Click on the drop-down list. This will give you a list of all the objects that remain in the report. From the list you can click on each one to select it. Select those objects one by one and you'll find the offender! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report Well the drag I already tried, but the ctrl-A and deleting all objects broke the spell. I guess I will see if I can find the object again. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report One thing that occasionally gets me is a line that is 'hidden' next to one of the gray section dividers. If you drag your cursor across these dividers, you'll select the line, then you can move it. Try selecting all objects (Ctrl+A) to see if any objects are selected at the right edge of the report. If any have the same color as the background of your report (probably white) then you'll know they are there. Try making a copy of your reports, then select all objects (ctrl+A), then delete all the objects. If you can now resize your report, then one of the objects was the problem. Also, try checking Page Setup to see what page width you've set up. HTH! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. Debbie - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Aug 10 14:04:22 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:04:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report In-Reply-To: <13437647.1092163452376.JavaMail.root@sniper10.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000c01c47f0c$d92481c0$de1811d8@danwaters> OK - go back to your original report and select line44. Then push the properties button. Change the line width to 4 pt, and maybe give it a red color (255). Also check the length to see if it's long enough to be seen. Now you'll see where it was. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report Found it! Still can't see the blasted thing, but selecting all then unselecting the visible objects one at a time left line44 which I deleted. I am still not sure where it is, but it is gone. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report Great! Next, make another report copy and delete all the objects you can see. Then go to the Report Design toolbar where on the left side you can see the word Report. Click on the drop-down list. This will give you a list of all the objects that remain in the report. From the list you can click on each one to select it. Select those objects one by one and you'll find the offender! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report Well the drag I already tried, but the ctrl-A and deleting all objects broke the spell. I guess I will see if I can find the object again. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Resize Report One thing that occasionally gets me is a line that is 'hidden' next to one of the gray section dividers. If you drag your cursor across these dividers, you'll select the line, then you can move it. Try selecting all objects (Ctrl+A) to see if any objects are selected at the right edge of the report. If any have the same color as the background of your report (probably white) then you'll know they are there. Try making a copy of your reports, then select all objects (ctrl+A), then delete all the objects. If you can now resize your report, then one of the objects was the problem. Also, try checking Page Setup to see what page width you've set up. HTH! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Resize Report I am creating a new report from an existing one, as they share many attributes. The new report is much narrower, so I want to print it as a portrait report, instead of landscape. Unfortunately, the report will not resize narrow enough to do this. I have removed all objects to the right of the margin that I want, but the report width always springs back. Does anyone know why this would happen and how to correct it? I have dragged my cursor across the entire blank section looking for objects, but have not been able to find any. I have also saved it with different printers and that has not stopped the problem. Debbie - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Tue Aug 10 14:01:47 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:01:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE59@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Do you always dim your variables at the top of the routines? I got in that habit sometime ago but it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve the "what type is it" issue. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Yep. I do it, and my boss hates it, although the other developers appreciate it. My boss feels that that extra green text makes the code *hard* to read and is unnecessary is short routines. My feeling is that I never know what might get inserted into the middle and it's easier to keep track if you comment the code when you write it. I had an instructor who insisted on this kind of commenting even for declarations and at the end of a function or sub. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I forget who mentioned something like this... If I < 90 Then 'some code here End If 'I but I SOMETIMES do the following in complex code... If intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Then 'some code here End If 'intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Anyone else do this? I usually just break up the complex code into functions/procedures. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Tue Aug 10 14:36:19 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:36:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDAA@DISABILITYINS01> >it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve the "what type is it" It would of course (for that area of the code). It's considered bad practice to dim variables in the middle of code for obvious reasons. Plus if the code that I is used in is a page long, you are right back to "what the heck is i". I am particularly sensitive to this because a few years back I inherited the typical "database from hell" One of the central routines was a function that was literally 6 feet long when printed and laid on the floor. Of course I carved it up into functions but trying to read the original was just... well... hell. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Do you always dim your variables at the top of the routines? I got in that habit sometime ago but it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve the "what type is it" issue. Jim Hale From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 10 15:23:17 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:23:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I never dim variables anywhere except at the top of a routine. Then I always know where to look to see all the variables and constants declared in that routine. I hate having to track them down in the code ... Especially if someone falls into the dim i as integer pit! Looking for variables declared in the body of code is like looking for a needle in a haystack, and you're much more likely to screw up your code by moving something that uses that variable to before the declaration if you declare it in the body of the routine. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Do you always dim your variables at the top of the routines? I got in that habit sometime ago but it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve the "what type is it" issue. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Yep. I do it, and my boss hates it, although the other developers appreciate it. My boss feels that that extra green text makes the code *hard* to read and is unnecessary is short routines. My feeling is that I never know what might get inserted into the middle and it's easier to keep track if you comment the code when you write it. I had an instructor who insisted on this kind of commenting even for declarations and at the end of a function or sub. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I forget who mentioned something like this... If I < 90 Then 'some code here End If 'I but I SOMETIMES do the following in complex code... If intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Then 'some code here End If 'intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Anyone else do this? I usually just break up the complex code into functions/procedures. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 10 15:25:44 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:25:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: LOL! I hear that! I've never had one quite that long, but I've had some that performed all sorts of exotic calculations using i, j, k, etc., declared and populated by other calculations earlier in the routine. Oh, and don't forget the GoTos that threaded themselves throughout. :-{ Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve >the "what type is it" It would of course (for that area of the code). It's considered bad practice to dim variables in the middle of code for obvious reasons. Plus if the code that I is used in is a page long, you are right back to "what the heck is i". I am particularly sensitive to this because a few years back I inherited the typical "database from hell" One of the central routines was a function that was literally 6 feet long when printed and laid on the floor. Of course I carved it up into functions but trying to read the original was just... well... hell. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Do you always dim your variables at the top of the routines? I got in that habit sometime ago but it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve the "what type is it" issue. Jim Hale -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 15:52:49 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:52:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB255@main2.marlow.com> So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 15:53:51 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:53:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB256@main2.marlow.com> Very rarely use arrays anymore anyhow. I use classes and collection, a lot more meaning full, and even easier to use. You do lose a little performance though. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ouch, John...pretty harsh, but exactly right! Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... strEmployeeList(i,j) 'what does i and j stand for? strEmployeeList(intI, intJ) 'still, what does intI and intJ stand for? strEmployeeList(intEmployeeType, intEmployeeCounter) 'seems understandable to me -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? The old style coding that used I or J or K was intentionally, with malice and forethought replaced with meaningful names precisely because trying to read such code sucks bigtime. And yes, I realize that those who use I, J and K make wishy washy claims that it is actually more efficient. I have programmed in C and I can write "more efficient" code that even an experienced C programmer can't interpret. Just because you can doesn't mean you should! The whole point of a naming convention is to be able to read the name and see what it is for. Yes, I MAY be interpreted "automatically" as a counting integer (by YOU), but counting WHAT? Is it the row of a one dimension array? Or the row counter of a two dim array? or a three dim array? Or a collection? I is, you have to admit, pretty much useless in telling me anything. If I want to know, I have to go look at the dim, statement, then I have to go look at the For Next row, just to find out what I does for me. So what you are saying in your argument is that you simply don't care about those who come behind. It works for you and that when you are not maintaining the code why should you care? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 15:54:24 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:54:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB257@main2.marlow.com> Use counters all of the time....almost never use arrays anymore..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Ouch, John...pretty harsh, but exactly right! Yea. Sorry bout that. I do get a little uh... harsh sometimes. Your example hits the nail right on the head. Particularly when dealing with arrays, each dimension means something, and getting them backwards is deadly. And of course, arrays is one of the big uses for counters. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ouch, John...pretty harsh, but exactly right! Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... strEmployeeList(i,j) 'what does i and j stand for? strEmployeeList(intI, intJ) 'still, what does intI and intJ stand for? strEmployeeList(intEmployeeType, intEmployeeCounter) 'seems understandable to me -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? The old style coding that used I or J or K was intentionally, with malice and forethought replaced with meaningful names precisely because trying to read such code sucks bigtime. And yes, I realize that those who use I, J and K make wishy washy claims that it is actually more efficient. I have programmed in C and I can write "more efficient" code that even an experienced C programmer can't interpret. Just because you can doesn't mean you should! The whole point of a naming convention is to be able to read the name and see what it is for. Yes, I MAY be interpreted "automatically" as a counting integer (by YOU), but counting WHAT? Is it the row of a one dimension array? Or the row counter of a two dim array? or a three dim array? Or a collection? I is, you have to admit, pretty much useless in telling me anything. If I want to know, I have to go look at the dim, statement, then I have to go look at the For Next row, just to find out what I does for me. So what you are saying in your argument is that you simply don't care about those who come behind. It works for you and that when you are not maintaining the code why should you care? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 15:57:45 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:57:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB258@main2.marlow.com> Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 15:58:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:58:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB259@main2.marlow.com> I did, but Hell doesn't use the same naming convention as we do, so I ended up arguing with the programmers down there too! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What, JC agreeing with me?? Has anyone checked the temperature in Hell lately? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 16:00:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:00:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB25A@main2.marlow.com> Wouldn't blame you for being a 'nasty' client. In fact, you'd be thanked for being a well informed client. Can't count the number of 'clients' I've had who not only didn't know what they wanted, but didn't know what they were currently doing anyways.......go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? Thanks to everyone who responded. Seems I threw a stone in the pond. :) I guess I should have explained the situation more clearly (I was in a bit of a rush). The 'details' are both objects and rows in a table. They are objects as far as the front end is concerned but generated on the fly according to definitions held in a table. They are part of a 3rd party system which is written in Informix and over which I have no back-end control. The table is set up as follows: CODE TEXT DATE MARKER VALUE MANDATORY Y/N ...and with a few other bits of info. There is no facility to autonumber the 'details' although the code does have to be unique. When creating a new code you can see the existing codes so you could potentially just pick the next number. I can see the point about autonumber PKs and yes, strictly speaking the code field is the PK on this table. My usual approach, when creating a lookup for example, is that I would use an autonumber, plus a 'friendly' code, plus the full description. When creating joins you can use the autonumber, when running reports & so forth (we run an awful lot of one-off reports) you can use the friendly code. I take the point about not stuffing a load of information into a single code, and would ideally set up several category columns. Unfortunately I don't have the option. The real problem is that anyone developing in this system has to work with the codes. There are several places in the bespoke development environment where you can see the code but not the description. We have inherited a mixture of meaningful codes and numeric codes from earlier development projects and we find the numeric ones almost impossible to remember, thus slowing us down while we go hunt out the correct code. There are several thousand 'details' in the system. Anyway, having read all your input and discussed this with my team I decided to impose my world view on the contractor >.< I hope y'all won't hate me for being one of those nasty clients :( Roz -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: 04 August 2004 19:01 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Names or numbers? What do you mean by 'details'? If you are referring to data within the tables, then you should really split things into separate fields. If a record is for a 'current phase' of development, then you create a phase of development field. If you are talking about object names.....I would go with your approach. My personal opinion of naming conventions is that you should use what makes sense to you, and the system you are working on. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 7:51 AM To: AccessD (AccessD at databaseadvisors.com) Subject: [AccessD] Names or numbers? << File: ATT04991.txt >> << File: ATT04992.txt >> Dear all I am currently engaged in an argument with a contractor over the naming of details in our database. His argument is that since the actual names of the details will never be exposed to the ordinary user, we should just give them numbers; X0000001, X0000002 and so forth. X denotes the current phase of development, another whacky idea of his. The 'friendly' names are held in a lookup table. Personally, since I have to work with these details on a daily basis, I would like the code to be a combination of categorisation, e.g. using the 1st two characters to describe the position / type of the detail, say XC for claimant details and XD for defendant details and XA for admin details, whilst using the other (up to 6) characters to describe the detail, say XCDOB for claimant's date of birth. The contractor's contention is that people will make up arbitrary & meaningless character codes which will be confusing, whereas the numbered details will be in a sensible sequence. a) he is not proposing to leave any gaps in the sequence for later insertion of related details b) I don't see how a number is going to be less confusing than an alpha code c) we can still use the lookup table with the alpha codes if needed Has anyone got any thoughts on naming conventions? Any experience of fully numeric naming systems that they can share? I have the authority to overrule him but this is a really big project so I want to get it right, and he is (theoretically) a lot more experienced than I am. He just hasn't come up with any convincing arguments. TIA Roz -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 16:02:26 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:02:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB25B@main2.marlow.com> Long Integers.... You know, the only time I have EVER seen a conflict between integers and long integers, is when I'm using a 16 bit API, that requires integers in it's arguments. And what exactly is the problem you raised? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions May I point out that you previously said these variables represented longs because you *always* use longs as counters. Now you're saying they're "counting integers". It seems you've demonstrated the problem I raised quite nicely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 8:49 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 16:03:15 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:03:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB25C@main2.marlow.com> I personally don't think so, but apparently there is a camp on the list that can't read code, unless you include mini help files in each variable name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, Magic (unexplained) numbers are always problematic. But if: i = 1 to lngRecordCount... Should we still need to expand on i? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Counters count SOMETHING. What is it counting? WHY are you bothering to count? It is exactly that thinking that leads to obfuscation. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Exactly! The names ijk imply throwaway variables not of interest in themselves -- mere counters. So there's nothing wrong IMO with Dim i as Long, j as Long, k as Long For I = 1 to 100 For j = 1 to 10 For k = 1 to 35 DoSomething Next DoSomethingElse Next DoSomethingCompletelyDifferent Next What's the rumpus? (quoting my fave movie of all time, "Miller's Crossing") Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. 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Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 16:07:25 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:07:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB25D@main2.marlow.com> Sorry couldn't help out more..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Drew, You also posted in Woody's Lounge, but I'll repeat some of my response here for the archives. I have DoEvents in my code, and it makes no difference. There was a Jet 4.0 issue mentioned in an MSKB article on A2k, but I haven't found anything specific for AXP. I'm assuming that this may be the culprit, since the symptoms are quite odd, and once the error occurs, it will keep occurring and continue for hundreds of recurrences. Let me clarify the situation: when I said the same file was being imported repeatedly, I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer interval has elapsed. What appears to happen is that after several hundred reiterations of this process, the data simply doesn't get imported and we get a log like this: Started at: 05:14 06-Aug-04 File successfully unzipped. Warning: Application and Export File Version Difference! Data Exported from Application Version: 4.19 Date: 17-Dec-2002 Data Imported into Application Version: 4.50 Date: 22-Apr-2004 Data updated to Temporary Tables Data successfully loaded in Temporary Tables There are no Well-related records remaining in this data import after removing all Write-protected records. Import aborted due to Unit Configuration errors in import file. Completed at: 05:14 06-Aug-04 Elapsed Time: 0 mins 1 secs The fact is, there is data in the comma-delimited text files, but it is NOT loaded into the temporary tables this time, nor at any future time until Access is restarted. Instead, you get a series of 3310 errors: "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet." The error is meaningless in context, but there it is. There is nothing wrong with the import specs, since they work after Access is restarted, but TransferText appears to break down entirely. In fact, you can't even use it from the immediate window because you get the same kind of error. That "memory leak" type of behavior echoes the reported problems with Jet 4 in A2k. Unfortunately, I can't find the reference to that MSKB article at the moment (of course), so I can't be more specific, and as I recall it was supposed to have been cured by one of the earlier Jet 4 service packs. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:17 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Okay, did a little testing on my own, with Access 97. Used the following code: Dim i Do Until i=-1 docmd.TransferText ....... i=i+1 Me.lblStatus.Caption="Importing: " & i 'DoEvents Loop Now, as is, above, the code Kicked up an 2051 error when i=11593 (It had imported 46372 records). Stopping the code, compacting the database, repairing the database, nothing would let the code start up again (without immediately kicking up that error message....which said something along the lines of a dialog box was not clicked or something.....), until I closed Access, and opened it up again, then it started right back up. Next time, it didn't error, it just hung. It sat at a record level of ~120,000 for about ten minutes, then I just killed it. No error, but it was definitely failing. Once I remove the quote before DoEvents, so that it would run, it seems to just fly, with no stopping. As I'm typing this, it's imported the records 1.5 million times and still going. Here's my theory. Jet is multi-threaded. I've had a little experience with multi-threading VB projects. One thing I know with doing that, is you have to be EXTREMELY careful when accessing a database. In fact, it is almost mandatory to force only one thread to do db transactions. If two threads try db transactions 'simultaneously', all sorts of things will happen (from just losing the thread, all the way to corrupting the database....not kidding...). The reason is that Windows isn't really paying attention to what a thread is doing when it gives time to the next one. So if two threads hit the db at the right time, it can REALLY get goofy. I'm sure the developers had that in mind when creating the TransferText method, however, they also probably didn't count on someone importing a file over and over and over, without a break. So what is probably happening, is that you are getting 'thread lock', where one or more of Jet's threads are locked, and there is nothing you can do about it, until you close Access, which will release the Jet threads. Now, I think putting in a DoEvents simply let's the VBA pause long enough to let the Jet threads finish what they need too, before being called again. Hope this helps in someway. Drew P.S. (It's now at 1.78 mill and counting....with the DoEvents....) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:49 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Cc: Steve White Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm beating my head against this and couldn't find anything in the archives or the MSKB (they seem to never have heard of error 3310), so I'm looking to you guys for assistance. We have an app that does nothing but watch a folder and import the files it finds there. To stress test it, we set it up with a single file (which is actually a zip file containing a series of comma delimited text files, each compatible with a table in the database structure) to import repeatedly. The import specs are there, and the thing behaves beautifully ... For a while. Then suddenly, after it has happily imported the same file several hundred times, it loses its mind and starts throwing a 3310 error, "This property is not supported for external data sources or for databases created with a previous version of Microsoft Jet" for each text file in the archive. Mind you, this is within 60 seconds of having imported the thing before. After that, NO imports are possible in the database, even from the UI until you close and restart Access. Nothing else has changed, and the database is not overly large. It isn't an unhandled error somewhere, because the module level and global variables are still populated. I can open the unzipped text files and see the data in them, but Access can no longer import it, not even from the UI. I'm not getting an Out of Memory error or anything else, but I can step through the code and see it break on DoCmd.TransferText. We're running on XP but I can replicate the behavior on Win2k and it is fairly consistent across machines with different speeds and memory, although the details of *when* it breaks vary slightly. I have a restart functionality built, shelling out to a restart app, but I want to know what's going wrong, not just paste a bandage on it. Has anyone else every encountered (and overcome) this? Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 16:12:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:12:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB25E@main2.marlow.com> A funny side not to my earlier post. I had a ton of windows open on my screen for the last few days....and about an hour ago, I started closing things. One of the items running, was that 'test' db I whipped up. It was still going. I thought that was odd, because it couldn't have ported that much information (into 97 .mdb). So I killed it. Took a look at the file size, and it was only 11 megs. I think that it was 'reporting' that it was working, but still had the same 'lock'. Can you take your code of the loop, and have it run it externally, so your code truly starts, and truly stops, before getting started again? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 No, I've checked that. It takes over 80,000 imports to make the db get up to 1.5 Gb without any compact on close (tested it). We do a compact on close to compact the file when it is shutdown and restarted. The restart app keeps checking to make sure the window has completely closed before it tries to restart the application in order to handle the compact on close delay. In the test situation, we're overwriting the same data repeatedly to the same folder, and the temp files are being deleted after import, so the space should be available for reuse. I have seen no indication that memory use is spiking or that is is even approaching the limits. The free space on the drive doesn't appear to be suffering, nor does the available resouces for other apps. Between restarts, the database bloats up to 50MB to 150MB, depending on how many zip files we use in the test. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 On 9 Aug 2004 at 9:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another > folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into > temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved > from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and > the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer > interval has elapsed. > If you are filling and clearing temporary tables hundreds of times, are you sure it's not a case of the database bloating - either until it hits the 2GB barrier or the workstation runs out of space on the working drive? -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 16:13:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:13:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB25F@main2.marlow.com> Well, we didn't really want to say anything.......BUT.......... (sorry, couldn't resist!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 8:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >JC, we're not interested in your fatherly advice... Just your developer expertise. ;) So... I really am useless then! 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions JC, we're not interested in your fatherly advice... Just your developer expertise. ;) Susan H. LOL, yep, it generally does go back to "I'm old and set in my ways and that's the way I want to do it". Believe me, I use that a lot these days. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 10 16:16:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:16:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB260@main2.marlow.com> Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 10 16:45:52 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:45:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: The point was that even the original programmer can't tell what i represents without looking up the declaration, wherever it may be. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long Integers.... You know, the only time I have EVER seen a conflict between integers and long integers, is when I'm using a 16 bit API, that requires integers in it's arguments. And what exactly is the problem you raised? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions May I point out that you previously said these variables represented longs because you *always* use longs as counters. Now you're saying they're "counting integers". It seems you've demonstrated the problem I raised quite nicely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 8:49 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Tue Aug 10 16:49:41 2004 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:49:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE59@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <200408102149.RAA00144@twister.bcentralhost.com> I'm not sure if this is progress but in VB.net you can define a variable as part of the For...Next statement: For i as Integer = 0 to 90 ' do something here Next i i only exists within the scope of the For...Next loop James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Do you always dim your variables at the top of the routines? I got in that habit sometime ago but it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve the "what type is it" issue. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Yep. I do it, and my boss hates it, although the other developers appreciate it. My boss feels that that extra green text makes the code *hard* to read and is unnecessary is short routines. My feeling is that I never know what might get inserted into the middle and it's easier to keep track if you comment the code when you write it. I had an instructor who insisted on this kind of commenting even for declarations and at the end of a function or sub. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I forget who mentioned something like this... If I < 90 Then 'some code here End If 'I but I SOMETIMES do the following in complex code... If intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Then 'some code here End If 'intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Anyone else do this? I usually just break up the complex code into functions/procedures. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 10 16:57:51 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:57:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: I don't quite know what loop you mean. When the restart app opens, it writes a status flag to the registry. We could have used text files or some other means, but the registry usage is consistent with our other apps. The primary app is waiting to see that flag before it shuts down. Once it sees it, the primary app writes a flag of its own and issues a Quit. If the restart app fails to open or doesn't write the flag, then the primary app doesn't shut down, it resets its restart interval for an hour later and goes about its business. Meanwhile the restart app is waiting for the flag from the primary app. It has already captured the hWnd of the primary app window, so it starts checking to see if the window has finally closed. It doesn't attempt to restart the primary app until that window is closed. It tries for up to 5 minutes to fail when trying to return the WindowText of that window. If the window never closes, the restart app shuts itself down after writing a failure status to the registry and it retains the log text file it has been writing along the way. That means that even if the primary app closes but the Access window stays open for some reason, the restart is never attempted. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 A funny side not to my earlier post. I had a ton of windows open on my screen for the last few days....and about an hour ago, I started closing things. One of the items running, was that 'test' db I whipped up. It was still going. I thought that was odd, because it couldn't have ported that much information (into 97 .mdb). So I killed it. Took a look at the file size, and it was only 11 megs. I think that it was 'reporting' that it was working, but still had the same 'lock'. Can you take your code of the loop, and have it run it externally, so your code truly starts, and truly stops, before getting started again? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 No, I've checked that. It takes over 80,000 imports to make the db get up to 1.5 Gb without any compact on close (tested it). We do a compact on close to compact the file when it is shutdown and restarted. The restart app keeps checking to make sure the window has completely closed before it tries to restart the application in order to handle the compact on close delay. In the test situation, we're overwriting the same data repeatedly to the same folder, and the temp files are being deleted after import, so the space should be available for reuse. I have seen no indication that memory use is spiking or that is is even approaching the limits. The free space on the drive doesn't appear to be suffering, nor does the available resouces for other apps. Between restarts, the database bloats up to 50MB to 150MB, depending on how many zip files we use in the test. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 On 9 Aug 2004 at 9:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another > folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into > temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved > from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and > the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer > interval has elapsed. > If you are filling and clearing temporary tables hundreds of times, are you sure it's not a case of the database bloating - either until it hits the 2GB barrier or the workstation runs out of space on the working drive? -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 10 17:00:28 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:00:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I'd say that's progress, although I would still probably apply use something other than a single character for a variable name and I would still use a data type prefix, intLoop, if nothing else, since the value of the variable is frequently used in tests within the loop, etc. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: James Barash [mailto:James at fcidms.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm not sure if this is progress but in VB.net you can define a variable as part of the For...Next statement: For i as Integer = 0 to 90 ' do something here Next i i only exists within the scope of the For...Next loop James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Do you always dim your variables at the top of the routines? I got in that habit sometime ago but it occurs to me "dim i as integer" at the start of a loop might solve the "what type is it" issue. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Yep. I do it, and my boss hates it, although the other developers appreciate it. My boss feels that that extra green text makes the code *hard* to read and is unnecessary is short routines. My feeling is that I never know what might get inserted into the middle and it's easier to keep track if you comment the code when you write it. I had an instructor who insisted on this kind of commenting even for declarations and at the end of a function or sub. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I forget who mentioned something like this... If I < 90 Then 'some code here End If 'I but I SOMETIMES do the following in complex code... If intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Then 'some code here End If 'intEmployeeType < ADMINISTRATOR Anyone else do this? I usually just break up the complex code into functions/procedures. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 10 17:40:26 2004 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:40:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Scrolling in Code Window!! Message-ID: Michael, Thank you so much for the info. I always forget to look on the mvps site. Great resource. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 108 Franklin Street Watertown, NY 13601 (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 10 20:34:16 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:34:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB260@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000601c47f43$53d4d510$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> >Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using I Which is unfortunately the crux of the matter. It's all about "I". Programming is supposed to be about the client, THEIR software, THEIR maintenance costs if you are hit by a bus. NOT about "I find it easier to remember". When I come in to maintain your software I don't have your memories to work with! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 10 21:06:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:06:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB258@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000701c47f47$ccdfc880$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 10 21:20:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:20:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB255@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000801c47f49$bb7195e0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Tue Aug 10 21:42:28 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:12:28 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7B2@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Tue Aug 10 21:43:07 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48485.152.163.252.98.1092192187.squirrel@heck.xuppa.com> Hello Group Does anyone know how I can loop across columns from column C till the last one ? I only know how to loop though numerics Oleg Sub Numbers() Dim a As Integer Dim b As Integer Dim c a = 7 Do While IsEmpty(Range("A" & a)) = False b = 0 If Range("C" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("D" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("E" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("F" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("G" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("H" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("I" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("J" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("K" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("L" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("M" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("N" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("O" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If b >= 2 Then Range("A" & a).Font.ColorIndex = 3 a = a + 1 Loop End Sub ----------------------------------------- Make Money and Find Love at Finally.com http://www.finally.com/?link=webmail From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 10 22:34:33 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:34:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7B2@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Message-ID: <000b01c47f54$21b1d720$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Tue Aug 10 23:13:02 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:43:02 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7B3@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 1:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 11 00:27:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 01:27:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7B3@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Message-ID: <001001c47f63$de4043e0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Wed Aug 11 00:48:36 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:18:36 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7B6@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Suit yourself John. I think you've clearly stated what 'category' you're in. Good luck. -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 2:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 11 00:58:54 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:58:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <000701c47f47$ccdfc880$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: I do agree with you John, completely on this one. I have had my fill following behind programmers who can and have cranked out code with gay abandon. A few, I am sure, work under the philosophy that it was hard enough to write so it should be hard to read. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 7:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 11 01:23:09 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 02:23:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c47f6b$afcd92d0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> LOL. I've had my fill of following behind myself, trying to figure out what the heck I was thinking. Anything I can do to reduce that feeling is worthwhile. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I do agree with you John, completely on this one. I have had my fill following behind programmers who can and have cranked out code with gay abandon. A few, I am sure, work under the philosophy that it was hard enough to write so it should be hard to read. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 7:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 11 02:09:30 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:09:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7B2@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Message-ID: That is an interesting point. Not agreeing or disagreeing with the new conventions; there are reason that Microsoft feels that the new standards should be used. I wonder if these are more to promote their development environments and to establish a developers dependency on their products than to assist. Some of the reasons they give for coding in the new standard are that the editors are now case sensitive so that variables entered like thisvariable are different from thisVariable and ThisVariable and Thisvariable. Another is that their editors now will display the variable type by just hovering over them. Microsoft has gone so far as to have their editors, by default, not identifying certain variables that do not match their new style standards...i.e. a constant or static variable would not be recognized as a variable unless they use the camel style; myCustomerName but not MyCustomerName. I hope their, Microsoft's reasons for moving all developers to the 'new standard' is to improve coding efficiency and readability and not just to hijack the industry into their camp as they tried to do with Java or like they did against open-GL and their DirectX. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 7:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Wed Aug 11 02:15:39 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:15:39 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel Question Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0ADAD1@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Using CELLS (row, column) With celLs you can approach a cell in a numeric way. Every function that use a alfanum style like "B7" can be replaced with cells(2,7) Use this for 1 cell ( replace 1 and 1 by a variable) objSheet.Cells(1, 1) = "TEST" Use this for approaching a range (replace 2,2 and 2,3 by variables) objSheet.Range(objSheet.Cells(2, 2), objSheet.Cells(2, 3)) = "jkjlkjl" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:43 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel Question Hello Group Does anyone know how I can loop across columns from column C till the last one ? I only know how to loop though numerics Oleg Sub Numbers() Dim a As Integer Dim b As Integer Dim c a = 7 Do While IsEmpty(Range("A" & a)) = False b = 0 If Range("C" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("D" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("E" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("F" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("G" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("H" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("I" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("J" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("K" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("L" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("M" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("N" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If Range("O" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 If b >= 2 Then Range("A" & a).Font.ColorIndex = 3 a = a + 1 Loop End Sub ----------------------------------------- Make Money and Find Love at Finally.com http://www.finally.com/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 11 08:29:05 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:29:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport In-Reply-To: <20040809133125.XXMG1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <20040811132908.BDAD1788.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Well, first, couldn't get the syntax right for setting the subreport control's Visible property. Second, even so, it still left the space above the record, so my feeling is this isn't about the control. Is it possible that the report's Detail prints the subreport BEFORE it executes the Format event? That's the only explanation I can come up with. Susan H. Oh Gustav... Sorry... What you said just sunk in -- no, I hadn't tried that -- I will. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 11 08:38:35 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:38:35 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport In-Reply-To: <20040811132908.BDAD1788.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040811132908.BDAD1788.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <10724994840.20040811153835@cactus.dk> Hi Susan It may be so - I haven't looked into it. Could you possibly use the Print event and not the Format event? /gustav > Well, first, couldn't get the syntax right for setting the subreport > control's Visible property. Second, even so, it still left the space above > the record, so my feeling is this isn't about the control. Is it possible > that the report's Detail prints the subreport BEFORE it executes the Format > event? That's the only explanation I can come up with. > Susan H. > Oh Gustav... Sorry... What you said just sunk in -- no, I hadn't tried that > -- I will. From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed Aug 11 09:07:16 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:07:16 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Link to Password Protected DB Message-ID: Hello All, In A2K I need to relink tables to a password protected db. I don't want the user to have to enter a password? Any suggestions? Thanks, Mark _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 11 09:29:38 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:29:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport In-Reply-To: <10724994840.20040811153835@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040811142938.TNOP1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I haven't tried it yet, but that was my next step -- to try a different event. Susan H. Hi Susan It may be so - I haven't looked into it. Could you possibly use the Print event and not the Format event? From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Aug 11 09:58:35 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:58:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Link to Password Protected DB In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30937341@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB745@ADGSERVER> We store the PW as a group of strings that look random and then put them back together in a certain order. We actually use constants that are in different modules. Not the best way to do it, but if someone wants in bad enough, there are plenty of utilities out there that will give them the password. You could store the encrypted password in the db or code and decrypt it before using it. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Link to Password Protected DB Hello All, In A2K I need to relink tables to a password protected db. I don't want the user to have to enter a password? Any suggestions? Thanks, Mark From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed Aug 11 10:21:45 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:21:45 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box Message-ID: Hello All, I thought this situation had passed. First, Thanks for all the feedback...for the most part...the conversion went fine. The problem is the file I am converting contains a field that is 'free text' and is often copied/pasted from other applications. In the 3rd record...in this field, there is a character that is interpreted as EOF...so my code stops without an error...but only the first 2 records are imported. Is there any way to test for this situation(2 EOFs or when there is data past EOF)? Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: "Pedro Janssen" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box >Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:10:22 +0200 > >Hello Mark, > >i use VBA on Reflection FTP to send a unix file as an ascii file >to an windows box. Then it is imported with no problems in access. >If you want the code, let me know, i will send you this next week >from my work. > >Pedro Janssen > > > > > >From: "Mark A Matte" > > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > > >solving > > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > >Subject: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box > > >Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:48:01 +0000 > > > > > >Hello All, > > > > > >I have an A97 db that imports a text file. The text file was on a >Windows > > >box...but now is generated and sent to a UNIX box. The UNIX version of > > >this text file has a CR or LF character after each record...and access >sees > > >this as the end of the file. Any suggestions in using vba to convert >this > > >file(or those characters) back to a Windows format/ > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Mark A. Matte > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to 'Dig Yourself Out of Debt' from >MSN > > >Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx > > > > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 11 10:52:15 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:52:15 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Link to Password Protected DB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15233015413.20040811175215@cactus.dk> Hi Mark > In A2K I need to relink tables to a password protected db. I don't want the > user to have to enter a password? Any suggestions? At least once, connect to your backend using the correct password. This stores the password in the connect string of the tables. When you wish to relink: 1. Retrieve the connect string from one of the tables. 2. Rebuild the connect string replacing the old path with the new path along the lines of the comments of this function: Public Function DaoTableJetConnect( _ ByVal strConnect As String, _ ByVal strDatabase As String) _ As String ' Builds DAO connect string for attaching a Jet table. ' strConnect is empty for a non-secured database. ' For a password protected database it may look like: ' ' "MS Access;PWD=password;" ' ' strDatabase must be a valid full path filename like: ' ' "F:\Folder\JetFile.mdb" ' ' Result string will be, respectively: ' ' ";DATABASE=F:\Folder\JetFile.mdb" ' "MS Access;PWD=password;;DATABASE=F:\Folder\JetFile.mdb" ' ' 2004-05-04. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim strTdfConnect As String ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next strTdfConnect = SetConnectKey(strConnect, cstrConnectionKeyDb, strDatabase) DaoTableJetConnect = strTdfConnect End Function The SetConnectKey is a quite convoluted function which will be overkill here but essentially it performs string manipulation to build the new result string as shown. (Look for "DATABASE=" and replace until next semicolon or end of string). 3. Relink the tables using the revised connect string. This way your password resides in the connect string of the linked tables and nowhere else. /gustav From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 12:11:30 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:11:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 12:25:08 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:25:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: ROTFL! Please notice that there is a difference between Microsoft (and FMS) no longer recommending Hungarian and Microsoft recommending you NOT use it. What they're recommending now, is not very different from what they've *always* recommended. The arguments are specious. Why would eliminating Hungarian make code any easier to manage?? The disciplines involved in managing code (i.e., changing data types) don't really have anything to do with notation, they are procedural. Coming up with prefixes would be a chore?? How about the hundreds that are already being maintained and used. Please excuse me, but I guess that was so easy! The assumption is that code will always be looked at on-line, never in any other form, so you can always hover a mouse over something to find out what it is. Oh, you don't *use* a mouse?? Uh, well ... Their arguments are excuses. I'm not impressed with FMS products or excuses. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 1:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 12:33:18 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:33:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDAC@DISABILITYINS01> I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with spaces. I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific location. Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but I can't find the email. I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a simple: While Len(strPad) < mintLen strPad = strPad & "@" Wend But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ characters? JWC From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 12:43:12 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:43:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDAD@DISABILITYINS01> >I'm not impressed with FMS products ... I was being soooooo nice! ;-) So thanks for that. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions ROTFL! Please notice that there is a difference between Microsoft (and FMS) no longer recommending Hungarian and Microsoft recommending you NOT use it. What they're recommending now, is not very different from what they've *always* recommended. The arguments are specious. Why would eliminating Hungarian make code any easier to manage?? The disciplines involved in managing code (i.e., changing data types) don't really have anything to do with notation, they are procedural. Coming up with prefixes would be a chore?? How about the hundreds that are already being maintained and used. Please excuse me, but I guess that was so easy! The assumption is that code will always be looked at on-line, never in any other form, so you can always hover a mouse over something to find out what it is. Oh, you don't *use* a mouse?? Uh, well ... Their arguments are excuses. I'm not impressed with FMS products or excuses. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 1:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Aug 11 13:07:24 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:07:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F1CA1EF@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Try string(40,"@") Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:33 PM > To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' > Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger > string > > I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for > dates, > $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. > > I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with > spaces. > > I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific > location. > > Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but > I > can't find the email. > > I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a > simple: > > While Len(strPad) < mintLen > strPad = strPad & "@" > Wend > > But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ > characters? > > JWC > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed Aug 11 13:18:40 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:18:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658B4@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> String("@",40) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:33 PM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with spaces. I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific location. Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but I can't find the email. I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a simple: While Len(strPad) < mintLen strPad = strPad & "@" Wend But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ characters? JWC -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. 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From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 11 13:24:10 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:24:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01dd01c47fd0$6683b810$6601a8c0@rock> Your post reminds me of something I read in "Code Complete", by Steve McConnell (a book I consider essential reading for any programmer, irrespective of language(s) used). It was my custom to put all variable declarations at the top of a given module, but Steve recommends against that, and suggests instead that declarations ought to go as close as possible to the portion of the code in which they are used. That struck me as counter-intuitive but the more I thought about it the more persuasive I found his argument. Lots of code is produced using copy/paste. If the declaration is right above the loop or whatever, it's simple to grab it along with the loop itself, for use elsewhere. And the compiler sorts it all out anyway, so what you're really talking about is readability for humans not machines. From that p.o.v., why should you learn about a variable until immediately before it is used? Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Yep. I do it, and my boss hates it, although the other developers appreciate it. My boss feels that that extra green text makes the code *hard* to read and is unnecessary is short routines. My feeling is that I never know what might get inserted into the middle and it's easier to keep track if you comment the code when you write it. I had an instructor who insisted on this kind of commenting even for declarations and at the end of a function or sub. Charlotte Foust From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 13:31:50 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:31:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: ROTFLMAO! You WERE?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >I'm not impressed with FMS products ... I was being soooooo nice! ;-) So thanks for that. JWC From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 11 13:33:39 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:33:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <000b01c47f54$21b1d720$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <01e001c47fd1$b8b72800$6601a8c0@rock> A) Would you kindly tone down the vitriol? My eyes start to hurt when you start yelling :) B) MS dropped the notion of Hungarian prefixes. That is quite a different issue than "should Inventory Item be represented by II?" A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 13:41:54 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:41:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I've read code complete, and I agree with that approach. I suspect it is a carryover from structured programming disciplines, where you *always* declared the variables just in time to use them in that routine. Structured programming sometimes seems to be an uneasy fit over Object Oriented and Event Driven code, but I still declare variables at the top of the routine, just before they're used. I don't normally declare variables at the module level, except in classes, I pass arguments between routines instead. If you want to be picky, in structured programming you never have a routine that does more than one thing, so the top of a routine *is* as close as they can get. :-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Your post reminds me of something I read in "Code Complete", by Steve McConnell (a book I consider essential reading for any programmer, irrespective of language(s) used). It was my custom to put all variable declarations at the top of a given module, but Steve recommends against that, and suggests instead that declarations ought to go as close as possible to the portion of the code in which they are used. That struck me as counter-intuitive but the more I thought about it the more persuasive I found his argument. Lots of code is produced using copy/paste. If the declaration is right above the loop or whatever, it's simple to grab it along with the loop itself, for use elsewhere. And the compiler sorts it all out anyway, so what you're really talking about is readability for humans not machines. From that p.o.v., why should you learn about a variable until immediately before it is used? Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Yep. I do it, and my boss hates it, although the other developers appreciate it. My boss feels that that extra green text makes the code *hard* to read and is unnecessary is short routines. My feeling is that I never know what might get inserted into the middle and it's easier to keep track if you comment the code when you write it. I had an instructor who insisted on this kind of commenting even for declarations and at the end of a function or sub. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 13:46:01 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:46:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB0@DISABILITYINS01> >Would you kindly tone down the vitriol? My eyes start to hurt when you start yelling Do I hafta? Naming conventions are more than prefixes. Naming conventions often (usually?) include suggestions for such things as how to capitalize, how to abbreviate, prefixes, use of (or prohibition of) _)(*&^%$#@! in variable names and so forth. These are both just different parts of the same issue. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions A) Would you kindly tone down the vitriol? My eyes start to hurt when you start yelling :) B) MS dropped the notion of Hungarian prefixes. That is quite a different issue than "should Inventory Item be represented by II?" A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 13:47:11 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:47:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB1@DISABILITYINS01> lol. You didn't think so? I was really just trying to whip up support for the Colby naming convention. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions ROTFLMAO! You WERE?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >I'm not impressed with FMS products ... I was being soooooo nice! ;-) So thanks for that. JWC -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 13:48:39 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:48:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB2@DISABILITYINS01> Cool, now I need to know how to place a string of len N at position O in another string. This is for export to a mainframe where the string they want is about 3,000 characters, of which a total of about 200 characters will actually have data from us. So: Insert in a string of blanks (spaces), at position 12, a string of length 10. REPLACE 10 characters with my 10 characters, starting at position 12. Insert in a string of blanks, at position 60, a string of length 25. Insert in a string of blanks, at position 124, a string of length 13. Etc. I have a field map of their data, and I can brute force it by just appending strings together. I think it was Gustav that suggested a smarter way using a built in VB function. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string String("@",40) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:33 PM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with spaces. I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific location. Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but I can't find the email. I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a simple: While Len(strPad) < mintLen strPad = strPad & "@" Wend But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ characters? JWC -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. 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This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 13:48:09 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:48:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I'll subscribe, John. That is, I'll use it as long as I don't have to support the code! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions lol. You didn't think so? I was really just trying to whip up support for the Colby naming convention. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions ROTFLMAO! You WERE?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >I'm not impressed with FMS products ... I was being soooooo nice! ;-) So thanks for that. JWC -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 11 13:39:47 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:39:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDAC@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: Hi John: Do you mean somthing like this: strInitialString = right(string("@",intWidth) & strInitialString, intWidth) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:33 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with spaces. I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific location. Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but I can't find the email. I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a simple: While Len(strPad) < mintLen strPad = strPad & "@" Wend But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ characters? JWC -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 13:57:10 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:57:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB3@DISABILITYINS01> I think the mid$ does what I need. I have to experiment. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string Hi John: Do you mean somthing like this: strInitialString = right(string("@",intWidth) & strInitialString, intWidth) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:33 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with spaces. I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific location. Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but I can't find the email. I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a simple: While Len(strPad) < mintLen strPad = strPad & "@" Wend But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ characters? JWC -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 11 13:57:59 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:57:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question about parsing a string intelligently In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01ed01c47fd5$20ace5a0$6601a8c0@rock> An app I'm doing involves replacing paper forms with nifty software forms. However, some of the shortcuts the users take on the paper forms, while readily readable for humans, are a little more problematic from the p.o.v. of Access. Here's an example. The customer wants to buy 132 units per month, to be delivered in six shipments per month. On the paper form, the client writes this: Amount Material Price Delivery Date 132 ST/mo SHG Slab xxxxx Aug 2, 5, 9, 12, 16, 19 The order in question is for the next 6 months, so the user fills in six such rows, each of whose ultimate column contains a collection of dates as presented above. I would like the user to be able to enter the dates exactly as shown above, and then magically turn them into 6 detail rows apiece. Note that the year is not entered. In this case it's not a problem, we can assume the current year; but suppose there were 7 rows not 6. The last row would say something like Jan and I would have to magically comprehend that we've passsed December so the implication is that that row applies to 2005. My first version of the software didn't anticipate this at all. Instead it had a cute calendar popup thingie that allows you to select one date. As a result, my UI sucks compared to the old paper form (in this respect at least). As I recall, there is some simple function that receives a comma-delimited string and returns an array of its substrings, as it were. But I can't remember what that function is. I could write it, and probably have for some long-forgotten app, but IIRC it's now built into Access. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Something that could possibly be cool in this situation is a calendar control that does multi-select. Does anyone know of such a beast? There is at least one more wrinkle in this problem, located in column 1 of the example above. The notation means 132 short tons (i.e. American tons, 2000 lb) per month. Dividing evenly, that's 22 short tons per shipment. But the entries in this column totally depend on what the customer is used to: alternative entries might include: 132 MT/mo -- metric (i.e. civilized) tons 22 STs/shp -- the user did the dividing 264000 lb/mo -- oddball user measures everything in pounds not tons, short or metric :) Okay, this message has gone on long enough. TIA, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box Hello All, I thought this situation had passed. First, Thanks for all the feedback...for the most part...the conversion went fine. The problem is the file I am converting contains a field that is 'free text' and is often copied/pasted from other applications. In the 3rd record...in this field, there is a character that is interpreted as EOF...so my code stops without an error...but only the first 2 records are imported. Is there any way to test for this situation(2 EOFs or when there is data past EOF)? Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: "Pedro Janssen" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box >Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:10:22 +0200 > >Hello Mark, > >i use VBA on Reflection FTP to send a unix file as an ascii file to an >windows box. Then it is imported with no problems in access. If you >want the code, let me know, i will send you this next week from my >work. > >Pedro Janssen > > > > > >From: "Mark A Matte" > > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > > >solving > > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > >Subject: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box > > >Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:48:01 +0000 > > > > > >Hello All, > > > > > >I have an A97 db that imports a text file. The text file was on a >Windows > > >box...but now is generated and sent to a UNIX box. The UNIX > > >version of this text file has a CR or LF character after each > > >record...and access >sees > > >this as the end of the file. Any suggestions in using vba to > > >convert >this > > >file(or those characters) back to a Windows format/ > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Mark A. Matte > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to 'Dig Yourself Out of Debt' > > >from >MSN > > >Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx > > > > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 14:02:25 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:02:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB4@DISABILITYINS01> I'm in love! JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I've read code complete, and I agree with that approach. I suspect it is a carryover from structured programming disciplines, where you *always* declared the variables just in time to use them in that routine. Structured programming sometimes seems to be an uneasy fit over Object Oriented and Event Driven code, but I still declare variables at the top of the routine, just before they're used. I don't normally declare variables at the module level, except in classes, I pass arguments between routines instead. If you want to be picky, in structured programming you never have a routine that does more than one thing, so the top of a routine *is* as close as they can get. :-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Your post reminds me of something I read in "Code Complete", by Steve McConnell (a book I consider essential reading for any programmer, irrespective of language(s) used). It was my custom to put all variable declarations at the top of a given module, but Steve recommends against that, and suggests instead that declarations ought to go as close as possible to the portion of the code in which they are used. That struck me as counter-intuitive but the more I thought about it the more persuasive I found his argument. Lots of code is produced using copy/paste. If the declaration is right above the loop or whatever, it's simple to grab it along with the loop itself, for use elsewhere. And the compiler sorts it all out anyway, so what you're really talking about is readability for humans not machines. From that p.o.v., why should you learn about a variable until immediately before it is used? Arthur From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 11 14:05:48 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:05:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDAC@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <01ee01c47fd6$36b66af0$6601a8c0@rock> Well, this part is easy. I named the following function after several similars that I learned in dBASE, Clipper, etc. '----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- ' Procedure : Replicate ' DateTime : 8/11/2004 15:00 ' Author : Arthur Fuller ' Purpose : return a string consisting of the input char replicated to N length ' Notes : ' : ' Revisions : ' : '----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- ' Public Function Replicate(strChar, intCount) As String Dim strResult As String Dim i As Integer On Error GoTo Replicate_Error For i = 1 To intCount strResult = strResult + strChar Next Replicate = strResult On Error GoTo 0 Exit Function Replicate_Error: MsgBox "Error " & Err.Number & " (" & Err.Description & ")" & _ vbCrLf & _ "in procedure Replicate of Module aaLib" End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:33 PM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with spaces. I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific location. Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but I can't find the email. I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a simple: While Len(strPad) < mintLen strPad = strPad & "@" Wend But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ characters? JWC -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 11 14:07:21 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:07:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F1CA1EF@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <01f001c47fd6$6e334840$6601a8c0@rock> Wow, I answered JC too quickly! After all these years in Access, I didn't know that you could do that! KEWL! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Colby, John' Subject: RE: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing Try string(40,"@") Lambert From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 14:14:32 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:14:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Drew your naming convention reasoning lead me to the following web page... http://mindprod.com/unmainnaming.html Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 14:22:44 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:22:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Wed Aug 11 14:28:32 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:28:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Question about parsing a string intelligently In-Reply-To: <01ed01c47fd5$20ace5a0$6601a8c0@rock> References: <01ed01c47fd5$20ace5a0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040811142832.640643364.serbach@new.rr.com> Arthur, >> As I recall, there is some simple function that receives a comma-delimited string and returns an array of its substrings, as it were. But I can't remember what that function is. << Split is what you want, I think: "Returns a zero-based, one-dimensional array containing a specified number of substrings." >> Something that could possibly be cool in this situation is a calendar control that does multi-select. Does anyone know of such a beast? << You're right! That would be cool. Sorry, don't know of any. Steve Erbach From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 11 14:27:19 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:27:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB2@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <01fd01c47fd9$3a206990$6601a8c0@rock> I used a technique a while ago which you might find useful. I just came up with it myself and didn't carefully guard against unusual situations, since there weren't any. If your text has unusual possibilities, you may need to revise this accordingly. Provisos aside, I came up with a convention like this (this is pseudo-code, no wrap etc.) strTarget = "This is a string containing markers such as \\InvoiceNumber\\ and further along in the string another marker, this one named \\Quantity\\ and yet another named \\Price\\. lngInvoiceNo = 12345 intQty = 23 currPrice = 2999.99 strTarget = Replace(strTarget,"\\InvoiceNumber\\",lngInvoiceNo) strTarget = Replace(strTarget,"\\Quantity\\",intQty) strTarget = Replace(strTarget,"\\Price\\",currPrice) In the actual app in which I did this, there were about 2 dozen such replaces going on. It took a second or two, but nothing to complain about. I did however have problems concerning the length of the string. I could never nail down exactly when and why it would sometimes fail, but I thing it had to do with the length of the string in question. I eventually gave up inspecting it in the debugger and went another way. I stored the target string in a database column instead of in the code, then derived the "replacement" string using a temp table and a query. For some reason, that approach worked infallibly while the simple string-replace in memory gave me problems occasionally. Your mileage may vary. Given the length of the string you want to build, go ahead and try it in memory, but if you hit a bump in the road, consider the stored-text approach. HTH, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing Cool, now I need to know how to place a string of len N at position O in another string. This is for export to a mainframe where the string they want is about 3,000 characters, of which a total of about 200 characters will actually have data from us. So: Insert in a string of blanks (spaces), at position 12, a string of length 10. REPLACE 10 characters with my 10 characters, starting at position 12. Insert in a string of blanks, at position 60, a string of length 25. Insert in a string of blanks, at position 124, a string of length 13. Etc. I have a field map of their data, and I can brute force it by just appending strings together. I think it was Gustav that suggested a smarter way using a built in VB function. JWC From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 14:30:47 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:30:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB6@DISABILITYINS01> That is a classic! JWC -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew your naming convention reasoning lead me to the following web page... http://mindprod.com/unmainnaming.html Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 14:35:34 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:35:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 14:46:58 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:46:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: John, You are exactly right. Best practices in no way imply that someone's code is worst practice, just not best practice. I think some members of the list take it that if you don't follow best practice, then you stink as a programmer. I don't think you are saying that. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 14:50:27 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:50:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I don't think anyone is saying that you have to use prefixes. I think they are saying that a variable should have some meaningful name. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 14:55:50 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:55:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Andrew, The point is that Microsoft is using some kind of convention. 'ii = new Inventory Item' (as Drew suggested) isn't a naming convention for easily maintained code. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 1:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 11 14:59:58 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:59:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB7@DISABILITYINS01> Scott, You are correct, I am not saying that. I have seen some of the things that Drew does and I am VERY impressed with his skill as a programmer. I am not impressed with a variable name of II. There is more to being a good programmer than lines of code per day, or the coolness of your algorithm. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, You are exactly right. Best practices in no way imply that someone's code is worst practice, just not best practice. I think some members of the list take it that if you don't follow best practice, then you stink as a programmer. I don't think you are saying that. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 15:08:29 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:08:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: My new email writing convention... New variables will be assigned in the future. This will save loads of keystrokes latter on. You will need to refer back to this and any new messages to understand the logic. Please make note now. Dim a as string = "John," Dim b as string = "I" Dim c as string = "love" Dim d as string = "it" Dim e as string = "when" Dim f as string = "you" Dim g as string = "get" Dim h as string = "on" Dim i as string = "a" Dim j as string = "roll." Dim k as string = "Scott Marcus" a b c d e f g h i j k Sorry, I could not resist! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 15:20:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:20:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB267@main2.marlow.com> Really? That's a VERY broad statement. I know what each and every i is, because I define them ALL as Long. Not too mention....who cares? When you see: For i=0 to rs.fields.count-1 ..... Next i Why would it matter what I is defined as? Even if it was a byte, it would still be fine, because you can't have more then 255 fields. So if the problem is actually an out of range issue, then take a few moments to go back to the top of the procedure to look at the declaration is nothing. When just looking at the code, who gives a flip as to how the variable is defined. The reason it's used, and what it is doing has litte to nothing to do with the dimensioning. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions The point was that even the original programmer can't tell what i represents without looking up the declaration, wherever it may be. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long Integers.... You know, the only time I have EVER seen a conflict between integers and long integers, is when I'm using a 16 bit API, that requires integers in it's arguments. And what exactly is the problem you raised? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions May I point out that you previously said these variables represented longs because you *always* use longs as counters. Now you're saying they're "counting integers". It seems you've demonstrated the problem I raised quite nicely. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 8:49 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but i, j, k, etc. are a naming convention in and of itself. We don't go: LongIntegerSomethingOrOther We go: lngSomethingOrOther or intSomethingOrOther Because lng relates to a long integer....int to integer.... so, i, j, k relate to a counting integer..... What's the fuss? Now, this whole naming convention thing would be a completely different story if the entire world programmed the same way. But they don't. No one can agree on the exact same convention, so all this is, is many many 'camps' saying 'my way is better, I better not ever have to read your code'..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions It's really quite simple the why. Because we use a naming convention. We don't "sometimes, when we feel like it, if it's not raining, if the moon is out, if I'm not pissed at the boss, its just a loop counter for petes sake" name things by the convention. We use a naming convention. Or we don't. I is not a naming convention. intI or lngI or bytI or whatever, yes, that is a naming convention. Not a great one. Variables are supposed to named to tell us what they represent. For bytWidgetCnt = 1 to 250 Next bytWidgetCnt THAT is a naming convention. I can see by the name what the data type is, and I can see by the name what it counts. I realize that quick and dirty programming takes place. I know that quick and dirty programs end up transforming into critical applications for companies. I discovered a long time ago that every time I failed to use my convention, it made it that much easier to NOT use the convention the next time. I learned a long time ago that every time I USED the convention, it made it that much easier to USE the convention the next time. I make no claim to perfection, however I do TRY to use the convention, I TRY to use it all the time, and I even go back and clean up code where I didn't. Really! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Because: Dim i As Long Do until i=100 i=i+1 loop Runs faster then Dim i as Integer Do Until i=100 i=i+1 Loop Why declare a counter with a prefix? If you are using an integer, for 'smaller' counts, then whether you are using a prefixed variable or not, you're still missing the point. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions But you see, I have to rationalize that in order to guess that you've used a long. If the loop only requires an integer up to 100, why use a long "of course"? If you declared the variable with a prefix or even a type declaration character, it wouldn't require anyone else to try and guess what you were thinking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Long of course. Why would you use byte or Integer in a 32 bit environment? A 32 bit Long Integer will out perform the other two! In fact, the only reason to use other numbers, is to confirm with API calls, when necessary. Other then that, there is no reason to use them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Byte, Integer or Long? Any of them can be counters. Counter is a non-definitive term for a value, and I object to that kind of coding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Me too, Drew. In my code, anything named i j or k immediately signals that's all it is, a counter. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions What's wrong with: For I=1 to 50 Next I ? Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Wed Aug 11 15:20:35 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:20:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions References: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB7@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <00af01c47fe0$a9670780$6401a8c0@default> For i = 1 to NamingConventions.Count Delete Next ... ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 15:21:48 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:21:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB268@main2.marlow.com> That's pretty much what I was saying. You have 2 apps, one to run the process, one to cycle the first. Is that setup still locking up? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I don't quite know what loop you mean. When the restart app opens, it writes a status flag to the registry. We could have used text files or some other means, but the registry usage is consistent with our other apps. The primary app is waiting to see that flag before it shuts down. Once it sees it, the primary app writes a flag of its own and issues a Quit. If the restart app fails to open or doesn't write the flag, then the primary app doesn't shut down, it resets its restart interval for an hour later and goes about its business. Meanwhile the restart app is waiting for the flag from the primary app. It has already captured the hWnd of the primary app window, so it starts checking to see if the window has finally closed. It doesn't attempt to restart the primary app until that window is closed. It tries for up to 5 minutes to fail when trying to return the WindowText of that window. If the window never closes, the restart app shuts itself down after writing a failure status to the registry and it retains the log text file it has been writing along the way. That means that even if the primary app closes but the Access window stays open for some reason, the restart is never attempted. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 A funny side not to my earlier post. I had a ton of windows open on my screen for the last few days....and about an hour ago, I started closing things. One of the items running, was that 'test' db I whipped up. It was still going. I thought that was odd, because it couldn't have ported that much information (into 97 .mdb). So I killed it. Took a look at the file size, and it was only 11 megs. I think that it was 'reporting' that it was working, but still had the same 'lock'. Can you take your code of the loop, and have it run it externally, so your code truly starts, and truly stops, before getting started again? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 No, I've checked that. It takes over 80,000 imports to make the db get up to 1.5 Gb without any compact on close (tested it). We do a compact on close to compact the file when it is shutdown and restarted. The restart app keeps checking to make sure the window has completely closed before it tries to restart the application in order to handle the compact on close delay. In the test situation, we're overwriting the same data repeatedly to the same folder, and the temp files are being deleted after import, so the space should be available for reuse. I have seen no indication that memory use is spiking or that is is even approaching the limits. The free space on the drive doesn't appear to be suffering, nor does the available resouces for other apps. Between restarts, the database bloats up to 50MB to 150MB, depending on how many zip files we use in the test. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 On 9 Aug 2004 at 9:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another > folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into > temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved > from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and > the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer > interval has elapsed. > If you are filling and clearing temporary tables hundreds of times, are you sure it's not a case of the database bloating - either until it hits the 2GB barrier or the workstation runs out of space on the working drive? -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 15:26:37 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:26:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB269@main2.marlow.com> Still don't see what point you are trying to make. There are people on the list (other then me) who have said they use i, j, k. Then there are people that use long variable definitions. Going either way is leaving the client a 50/50 shot as to having the next developer use the same methods. Do you understand what I am saying JC? If everyone used the same methods, and I was the only person in the world that was different, then I would have to change, because it doesn't make logic sense, and I would be hurting my clients. But I'm NOT the lone wolf on this. There IS NO world wide standard, that everyone else adheres too. There are camps. Camps of people that feel one way or the other. If you belong to Camp A, you can't possible write code to satisfy other Camp A folks, and Camp B, and Camp C, etc. If you stick to Camp A, your client has the same chance of getting a new developer from the right camp, no matter what camp you decide to align with. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using I Which is unfortunately the crux of the matter. It's all about "I". Programming is supposed to be about the client, THEIR software, THEIR maintenance costs if you are hit by a bus. NOT about "I find it easier to remember". When I come in to maintain your software I don't have your memories to work with! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 11 15:31:03 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:31:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Can't suppress subreport In-Reply-To: <20040811142938.TNOP1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <20040811203103.BAZA1792.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Arg.... I changed the <> operator to < and it works fine. Susan H. I haven't tried it yet, but that was my next step -- to try a different event. Susan H. Hi Susan It may be so - I haven't looked into it. Could you possibly use the Print event and not the Format event? From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 11 15:33:33 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:33:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Drew, I remember talking about spaghetti code around a year or so ago. Wasn't it you who said that you used goto's liberally? Now I'm starting to sound like a troll. I'll stop. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Still don't see what point you are trying to make. There are people on the list (other then me) who have said they use i, j, k. Then there are people that use long variable definitions. Going either way is leaving the client a 50/50 shot as to having the next developer use the same methods. Do you understand what I am saying JC? If everyone used the same methods, and I was the only person in the world that was different, then I would have to change, because it doesn't make logic sense, and I would be hurting my clients. But I'm NOT the lone wolf on this. There IS NO world wide standard, that everyone else adheres too. There are camps. Camps of people that feel one way or the other. If you belong to Camp A, you can't possible write code to satisfy other Camp A folks, and Camp B, and Camp C, etc. If you stick to Camp A, your client has the same chance of getting a new developer from the right camp, no matter what camp you decide to align with. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using I Which is unfortunately the crux of the matter. It's all about "I". Programming is supposed to be about the client, THEIR software, THEIR maintenance costs if you are hit by a bus. NOT about "I find it easier to remember". When I come in to maintain your software I don't have your memories to work with! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 15:40:45 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:40:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26B@main2.marlow.com> JC, have you ever gone to the DMV, or some other beauracratic office, and spent hours doing something that should have taken 10 seconds? Ever been in a store, or office where you sit and watch someone go through torturous paths on some developed software, because you want to change your phone number in there records? These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the fastest in, and find the most convenient to use. That saves my clients time and money. It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you don't have to change mindsets. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 15:45:10 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:45:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26C@main2.marlow.com> I knew that ii thing would get your goat. Ever programmed in Microsoft Scripting Editor? Do you know how easy it is to misspell InventoryItem? How hard is it to misspell ii? ii looks NOTHING like io, or iu, or ij, etc. However, InventryItem doesn't seem too far off. Try debugging ASP applications.... And as far as someone coming in 'behind' me, they'll find nice structured classes, that handle all of the logic encapsulated in the Classes scope. Pretty easy to follow (at least with projects in the last 2 years......no comment on previous stuff....LOL). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:20 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 15:46:43 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:46:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26D@main2.marlow.com> Thankyou, just plain thankyou. And welcome to the 'Going to be Banished by JC' club! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 15:53:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:53:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26E@main2.marlow.com> Actually JC, i wouldn't be acceptable as a variable InventoryItem object. Two reasons. One, i already is set aside for counting integers (longs), and all objects have at least 2 characters in them. ii would be an InventoryItem, but if I had a larger collection class, of InventoryItems, then I would use iis. Hopefully you're not spitting blood yet.....though you may be foaming at the mouth. Here's an example of one of my Class Initialization events: Private Sub Class_Initialize() Dim cnn As ADODB.Connection Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset Dim strSQL As String Dim inv As Invoice Set Invs = New Collection Set rs = New ADODB.Recordset DBConnection cnn strSQL = "SELECT tblShoppingCarts.CartID, InvoiceNumber " & _ "FROM tblShoppingCarts INNER JOIN tblInvoiceNumbers ON tblShoppingCarts.CartID=tblInvoiceNumbers.CartID " & _ "WHERE RecordedInGlovia=False AND Closed=True AND PaymentResponse=1" rs.Open strSQL, cnn, adOpenKeyset, adLockReadOnly If rs.EOF = False Then rs.MoveFirst Do Until rs.EOF = True Set inv = New Invoice inv.CartID = rs.Fields(0).Value inv.InvoiceNumber = rs.Fields(1).Value Set inv.Connection = cnn inv.GetLineItems Invs.Add inv Set inv = Nothing rs.MoveNext Loop rs.Close Set rs = Nothing cnn.Close Set cnn = Nothing End Sub Now tell me that you would have a real problem following the logic and naming convention used above. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Aug 11 15:59:14 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:59:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F1CA1FC@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Air code.... Function InstertString(strInsert as String, strTarget As String, nPos as Long) as String Dim strLeft as String, strRight as String If Len(strTarget) < nPos + 1 Then ' do something about this error condition Else strLeft = Left(strTarget,nPos) strRight = Mid(strTarget,nPos + 1) strTarget = strLeft & strInsert & strRight InstertString = strTarget End If End Function Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:49 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a > larger str ing > > Cool, now I need to know how to place a string of len N at position O in > another string. > > This is for export to a mainframe where the string they want is about > 3,000 > characters, of which a total of about 200 characters will actually have > data > from us. > > So: > > Insert in a string of blanks (spaces), at position 12, a string of length > 10. REPLACE 10 characters with my 10 characters, starting at position 12. > Insert in a string of blanks, at position 60, a string of length 25. > Insert in a string of blanks, at position 124, a string of length 13. > > Etc. > > I have a field map of their data, and I can brute force it by just > appending > strings together. I think it was Gustav that suggested a smarter way > using > a built in VB function. > > JWC > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger > string > > > String("@",40) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:33 PM > To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' > Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger > string > > I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for > dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. > > I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with > spaces. > > I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a > specific location. > > Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string > but I can't find the email. > > I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a > simple: > > While Len(strPad) < mintLen > strPad = strPad & "@" > Wend > > But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ > characters? > > JWC > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ---------------------------------------- > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the > taking > of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly > prohibited. > If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the > sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are > prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Aug 11 16:08:05 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:08:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel Question Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F1CA1FD@xlivmbx21.aig.com> You can also use row,column numbering to address a range. Like this Dim oRng as Excel.Range Dim xlSheet As Excel.Worksheet DIm nFirstColumn as Long, nLastColumn as Long ... ' some object initialization code snipped ... Set oRng = xlSheet.Range(xlSheet.Cells(1, nFirstColumn), xlSheet.Cells(1, nLastColumn)) Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Oleg_123 at xuppa.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:43 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] (OT) Excel Question > > Hello Group > Does anyone know how I can loop across columns from column C till the last > one ? I only know how to loop though numerics > > Oleg > > > Sub Numbers() > Dim a As Integer > Dim b As Integer > Dim c > > a = 7 > > Do While IsEmpty(Range("A" & a)) = False > b = 0 > > If Range("C" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("D" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("E" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("F" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("G" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("H" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("I" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("J" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("K" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("L" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("M" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("N" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > If Range("O" & a) <> 0 Then b = b + 1 > > If b >= 2 Then Range("A" & a).Font.ColorIndex = 3 > a = a + 1 > > Loop > > End Sub > > > ----------------------------------------- > Make Money and Find Love at Finally.com > http://www.finally.com/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed Aug 11 15:53:46 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:53:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Question about parsing a string intelligently Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE64@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> I'm sending you a worksheet offline. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Question about parsing a string intelligently An app I'm doing involves replacing paper forms with nifty software forms. However, some of the shortcuts the users take on the paper forms, while readily readable for humans, are a little more problematic from the p.o.v. of Access. Here's an example. The customer wants to buy 132 units per month, to be delivered in six shipments per month. On the paper form, the client writes this: Amount Material Price Delivery Date 132 ST/mo SHG Slab xxxxx Aug 2, 5, 9, 12, 16, 19 The order in question is for the next 6 months, so the user fills in six such rows, each of whose ultimate column contains a collection of dates as presented above. I would like the user to be able to enter the dates exactly as shown above, and then magically turn them into 6 detail rows apiece. Note that the year is not entered. In this case it's not a problem, we can assume the current year; but suppose there were 7 rows not 6. The last row would say something like Jan and I would have to magically comprehend that we've passsed December so the implication is that that row applies to 2005. My first version of the software didn't anticipate this at all. Instead it had a cute calendar popup thingie that allows you to select one date. As a result, my UI sucks compared to the old paper form (in this respect at least). As I recall, there is some simple function that receives a comma-delimited string and returns an array of its substrings, as it were. But I can't remember what that function is. I could write it, and probably have for some long-forgotten app, but IIRC it's now built into Access. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Something that could possibly be cool in this situation is a calendar control that does multi-select. Does anyone know of such a beast? There is at least one more wrinkle in this problem, located in column 1 of the example above. The notation means 132 short tons (i.e. American tons, 2000 lb) per month. Dividing evenly, that's 22 short tons per shipment. But the entries in this column totally depend on what the customer is used to: alternative entries might include: 132 MT/mo -- metric (i.e. civilized) tons 22 STs/shp -- the user did the dividing 264000 lb/mo -- oddball user measures everything in pounds not tons, short or metric :) Okay, this message has gone on long enough. TIA, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box Hello All, I thought this situation had passed. First, Thanks for all the feedback...for the most part...the conversion went fine. The problem is the file I am converting contains a field that is 'free text' and is often copied/pasted from other applications. In the 3rd record...in this field, there is a character that is interpreted as EOF...so my code stops without an error...but only the first 2 records are imported. Is there any way to test for this situation(2 EOFs or when there is data past EOF)? Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: "Pedro Janssen" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box >Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:10:22 +0200 > >Hello Mark, > >i use VBA on Reflection FTP to send a unix file as an ascii file to an >windows box. Then it is imported with no problems in access. If you >want the code, let me know, i will send you this next week from my >work. > >Pedro Janssen > > > > > >From: "Mark A Matte" > > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > > >solving > > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > >Subject: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box > > >Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:48:01 +0000 > > > > > >Hello All, > > > > > >I have an A97 db that imports a text file. The text file was on a >Windows > > >box...but now is generated and sent to a UNIX box. The UNIX > > >version of this text file has a CR or LF character after each > > >record...and access >sees > > >this as the end of the file. Any suggestions in using vba to > > >convert >this > > >file(or those characters) back to a Windows format/ > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Mark A. Matte > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to 'Dig Yourself Out of Debt' > > >from >MSN > > >Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx > > > > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 16:14:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:14:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26F@main2.marlow.com> I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 16:15:35 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:15:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB270@main2.marlow.com> Funny, I see it the opposite. It's easy to write, and just as easy to read. Putting useless prefixes, and drawn out variable names is hard to write, and in my book, harder to follow. Odd, a different perspective.....Ack, what to do! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I do agree with you John, completely on this one. I have had my fill following behind programmers who can and have cranked out code with gay abandon. A few, I am sure, work under the philosophy that it was hard enough to write so it should be hard to read. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 7:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 16:33:31 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:33:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB271@main2.marlow.com> ROTFLMAO! That was hilarious! A quote from that site: Invent your own hopelessly complex naming conventions, then berate everyone else for not following them. Hmmmmmmm......sounds exactly like Hungarian.........I guess everyone hopped on that wagon, cause they were tired of being berated! LOL Though what I liked the best was: Obscure film references : Use constant names like LancelotsFavouriteColour instead of blue and assign it hex value of 0x0204FB. The color looks identical to pure blue on the screen, and a maintenance programmer would have to work out 0204FB (or use some graphic tool) to know what it looks like. Only someone intimately familiar with Monty Python and the Holy Grail would know that Lancelot's favorite color was blue. If a maintenance programmer can't quote entire Monty Python movies from memory, he or she has no business being a programmer. So true, so true.....Monty Python is required viewing! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew your naming convention reasoning lead me to the following web page... http://mindprod.com/unmainnaming.html Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 16:35:43 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:35:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB272@main2.marlow.com> Pretty simple. Since ii represents a class, it would never be in the same coding as i: i=1 For i=1 to 100 ii=1 would not be valid...it's a class. Nor would set i= new InventoryItem Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions <So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 16:37:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:37:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB273@main2.marlow.com> Do you ever use rs for Recordset? Dim rs As Recordset Set rs = CurrentDB.OpenRecordset("tblSomething",dbOpenTable) Why use rs? Or do you use rsSomethingTable? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Andrew, The point is that Microsoft is using some kind of convention. 'ii = new Inventory Item' (as Drew suggested) isn't a naming convention for easily maintained code. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 1:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 17:01:48 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:01:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: I'm still tweaking it. I've had two apps from the start. A few things like the license expiring will stuff it royally, and any error that pops up a dialog. I'm on the heels of one, and testing to see whether I have plugged it, but only time will tell. Naturally, the error message received doesn't seem to have any relationship to what is actually going on! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:22 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 That's pretty much what I was saying. You have 2 apps, one to run the process, one to cycle the first. Is that setup still locking up? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I don't quite know what loop you mean. When the restart app opens, it writes a status flag to the registry. We could have used text files or some other means, but the registry usage is consistent with our other apps. The primary app is waiting to see that flag before it shuts down. Once it sees it, the primary app writes a flag of its own and issues a Quit. If the restart app fails to open or doesn't write the flag, then the primary app doesn't shut down, it resets its restart interval for an hour later and goes about its business. Meanwhile the restart app is waiting for the flag from the primary app. It has already captured the hWnd of the primary app window, so it starts checking to see if the window has finally closed. It doesn't attempt to restart the primary app until that window is closed. It tries for up to 5 minutes to fail when trying to return the WindowText of that window. If the window never closes, the restart app shuts itself down after writing a failure status to the registry and it retains the log text file it has been writing along the way. That means that even if the primary app closes but the Access window stays open for some reason, the restart is never attempted. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 A funny side not to my earlier post. I had a ton of windows open on my screen for the last few days....and about an hour ago, I started closing things. One of the items running, was that 'test' db I whipped up. It was still going. I thought that was odd, because it couldn't have ported that much information (into 97 .mdb). So I killed it. Took a look at the file size, and it was only 11 megs. I think that it was 'reporting' that it was working, but still had the same 'lock'. Can you take your code of the loop, and have it run it externally, so your code truly starts, and truly stops, before getting started again? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 No, I've checked that. It takes over 80,000 imports to make the db get up to 1.5 Gb without any compact on close (tested it). We do a compact on close to compact the file when it is shutdown and restarted. The restart app keeps checking to make sure the window has completely closed before it tries to restart the application in order to handle the compact on close delay. In the test situation, we're overwriting the same data repeatedly to the same folder, and the temp files are being deleted after import, so the space should be available for reuse. I have seen no indication that memory use is spiking or that is is even approaching the limits. The free space on the drive doesn't appear to be suffering, nor does the available resouces for other apps. Between restarts, the database bloats up to 50MB to 150MB, depending on how many zip files we use in the test. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 On 9 Aug 2004 at 9:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another > folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into > temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved > from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and > the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer > interval has elapsed. > If you are filling and clearing temporary tables hundreds of times, are you sure it's not a case of the database bloating - either until it hits the 2GB barrier or the workstation runs out of space on the working drive? -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 17:02:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:02:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB274@main2.marlow.com> You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 17:04:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:04:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB275@main2.marlow.com> LOL. Not trying to impress you with ii. In fact, I only put that in the post cause I knew it would rile you up....hmmmm...mission accomplished! LOL I do use it though. Simply because I'm not coding to impress anyone. I'm coding in a method that I find quick to develop, easy to understand, and simple to maintain. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Scott, You are correct, I am not saying that. I have seen some of the things that Drew does and I am VERY impressed with his skill as a programmer. I am not impressed with a variable name of II. There is more to being a good programmer than lines of code per day, or the coolness of your algorithm. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, You are exactly right. Best practices in no way imply that someone's code is worst practice, just not best practice. I think some members of the list take it that if you don't follow best practice, then you stink as a programmer. I don't think you are saying that. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 17:05:26 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:05:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 11 17:06:50 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:06:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB276@main2.marlow.com> I remember that thread. I said I used Goto's when needed. I honestly don't use them very often. I use them in errorhandling, and I use them in particular loops where I want a loop with various conditions. But again, I don't use them to jump code around for willy nilly reasons. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I remember talking about spaghetti code around a year or so ago. Wasn't it you who said that you used goto's liberally? Now I'm starting to sound like a troll. I'll stop. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Still don't see what point you are trying to make. There are people on the list (other then me) who have said they use i, j, k. Then there are people that use long variable definitions. Going either way is leaving the client a 50/50 shot as to having the next developer use the same methods. Do you understand what I am saying JC? If everyone used the same methods, and I was the only person in the world that was different, then I would have to change, because it doesn't make logic sense, and I would be hurting my clients. But I'm NOT the lone wolf on this. There IS NO world wide standard, that everyone else adheres too. There are camps. Camps of people that feel one way or the other. If you belong to Camp A, you can't possible write code to satisfy other Camp A folks, and Camp B, and Camp C, etc. If you stick to Camp A, your client has the same chance of getting a new developer from the right camp, no matter what camp you decide to align with. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using I Which is unfortunately the crux of the matter. It's all about "I". Programming is supposed to be about the client, THEIR software, THEIR maintenance costs if you are hit by a bus. NOT about "I find it easier to remember". When I come in to maintain your software I don't have your memories to work with! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 11 17:06:58 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:06:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Not to mention the job security it offers, since no one else can figure it out! LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:05 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions LOL. Not trying to impress you with ii. In fact, I only put that in the post cause I knew it would rile you up....hmmmm...mission accomplished! LOL I do use it though. Simply because I'm not coding to impress anyone. I'm coding in a method that I find quick to develop, easy to understand, and simple to maintain. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Scott, You are correct, I am not saying that. I have seen some of the things that Drew does and I am VERY impressed with his skill as a programmer. I am not impressed with a variable name of II. There is more to being a good programmer than lines of code per day, or the coolness of your algorithm. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, You are exactly right. Best practices in no way imply that someone's code is worst practice, just not best practice. I think some members of the list take it that if you don't follow best practice, then you stink as a programmer. I don't think you are saying that. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 11 17:26:42 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:26:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000601c47ff2$4a58e710$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> I don't see a naming convention so it would be a bit difficult to follow that. As far as the logic, I dare say I have figured out logic that would make your eyes bug out so no, no problem figuring out your logic. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually JC, i wouldn't be acceptable as a variable InventoryItem object. Two reasons. One, i already is set aside for counting integers (longs), and all objects have at least 2 characters in them. ii would be an InventoryItem, but if I had a larger collection class, of InventoryItems, then I would use iis. Hopefully you're not spitting blood yet.....though you may be foaming at the mouth. Here's an example of one of my Class Initialization events: Private Sub Class_Initialize() Dim cnn As ADODB.Connection Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset Dim strSQL As String Dim inv As Invoice Set Invs = New Collection Set rs = New ADODB.Recordset DBConnection cnn strSQL = "SELECT tblShoppingCarts.CartID, InvoiceNumber " & _ "FROM tblShoppingCarts INNER JOIN tblInvoiceNumbers ON tblShoppingCarts.CartID=tblInvoiceNumbers.CartID " & _ "WHERE RecordedInGlovia=False AND Closed=True AND PaymentResponse=1" rs.Open strSQL, cnn, adOpenKeyset, adLockReadOnly If rs.EOF = False Then rs.MoveFirst Do Until rs.EOF = True Set inv = New Invoice inv.CartID = rs.Fields(0).Value inv.InvoiceNumber = rs.Fields(1).Value Set inv.Connection = cnn inv.GetLineItems Invs.Add inv Set inv = Nothing rs.MoveNext Loop rs.Close Set rs = Nothing cnn.Close Set cnn = Nothing End Sub Now tell me that you would have a real problem following the logic and naming convention used above. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 11 17:29:33 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:29:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <00af01c47fe0$a9670780$6401a8c0@default> Message-ID: <000701c47ff2$b072c020$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> ROTFL. Agreed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions For i = 1 to NamingConventions.Count Delete Next ... ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 11 17:31:07 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:31:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c47ff2$e8564e80$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> ROTFLMAOBTC. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions My new email writing convention... New variables will be assigned in the future. This will save loads of keystrokes latter on. You will need to refer back to this and any new messages to understand the logic. Please make note now. Dim a as string = "John," Dim b as string = "I" Dim c as string = "love" Dim d as string = "it" Dim e as string = "when" Dim f as string = "you" Dim g as string = "get" Dim h as string = "on" Dim i as string = "a" Dim j as string = "roll." Dim k as string = "Scott Marcus" a b c d e f g h i j k Sorry, I could not resist! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Aug 11 17:34:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:34:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string In-Reply-To: <01ee01c47fd6$36b66af0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <000901c47ff3$53457d60$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> It turns out that mid() is a keyword that accepts parameters and inserts a string inside another. mid(strToMerge, lngPosToInsert)= strToInsert Something like that John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string Well, this part is easy. I named the following function after several similars that I learned in dBASE, Clipper, etc. '----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- ' Procedure : Replicate ' DateTime : 8/11/2004 15:00 ' Author : Arthur Fuller ' Purpose : return a string consisting of the input char replicated to N length ' Notes : ' : ' Revisions : ' : '----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- ' Public Function Replicate(strChar, intCount) As String Dim strResult As String Dim i As Integer On Error GoTo Replicate_Error For i = 1 To intCount strResult = strResult + strChar Next Replicate = strResult On Error GoTo 0 Exit Function Replicate_Error: MsgBox "Error " & Err.Number & " (" & Err.Description & ")" & _ vbCrLf & _ "in procedure Replicate of Module aaLib" End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:33 PM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string I need to take some piece of data, format it correctly (yyyymmdd for dates, $$$$.CCCC for currency, XXXX.DD for other floats, etc. I then need to place it in a specific length field, padded left with spaces. I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific location. Someone posted a solution for placing a string inside a larger string but I can't find the email. I can build up a string of @ characters into the correct length using a simple: While Len(strPad) < mintLen strPad = strPad & "@" Wend But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ characters? JWC -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 11 17:47:36 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:47:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <01dd01c47fd0$6683b810$6601a8c0@rock> References: Message-ID: <411B2EA8.19121.20A0FE74@lexacorp.com.pg> On 11 Aug 2004 at 14:24, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Lots of code is produced using > copy/paste. If the declaration is right above the loop or whatever, it's > simple to grab it along with the loop itself, for use elsewhere. And the > compiler sorts it all out anyway, so what you're really talking about is > readability for humans not machines. From that p.o.v., why should you > learn about a variable until immediately before it is used? > That's fine as long as the variable is only used in the one loop. Wnen the same variable appears in several parts of the same procedure , it's a bugger trying to go back and find it's first appearance (Don't tell me I should break all my procedures down into smaller ones. ) -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 11 17:51:54 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:51:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger string In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDAC@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <411B2FAA.31325.20A4EE44@lexacorp.com.pg> On 11 Aug 2004 at 13:33, Colby, John wrote: > I then need to insert that string inside of a larger string at a specific > location. Use the Mid() statement (as opposed to the function) > But is there any way to just specify that I want a string of 40 @ > characters? string(40,"@") -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 11 17:55:09 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:55:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] formatting strings and placing them in a larger str ing In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB2@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <411B306D.5258.20A7E7FC@lexacorp.com.pg> On 11 Aug 2004 at 14:48, Colby, John wrote: > Cool, now I need to know how to place a string of len N at position O in > another string. > Mid(strBigString,O) = strMySubString You don't need to worry about the len N. -- Stuart From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 11 19:16:48 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:16:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That is FUNNY....I nearly fell off my chair and everyone came to see what was all the commotion about. It is made all the more funny because I have actually seen this before, in reality, though many years ago. :-) Honestly, it was not Drew, as I said it was years ago. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew your naming convention reasoning lead me to the following web page... http://mindprod.com/unmainnaming.html Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Wed Aug 11 19:37:09 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:07:09 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7BA@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Wed Aug 11 19:40:05 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:10:05 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <0A870603A2A816459078203FC07F4CD201E7BB@adl01s055.ilcorp.gov.au> Halleluiah - Thankyou. It really amazes me how some become so ridiculously headstrong about certain topics. Get outside, enjoy the sunshine, there's a whole world out there. As hard as it is to believe - coding isn't everything. -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 4:04 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions A) Would you kindly tone down the vitriol? My eyes start to hurt when you start yelling :) B) MS dropped the notion of Hungarian prefixes. That is quite a different issue than "should Inventory Item be represented by II?" A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Aug 11 19:51:34 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:51:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified Message-ID: <032301c48006$847dc2d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? TIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 11 20:57:42 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:57:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified In-Reply-To: <032301c48006$847dc2d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <411B5B36.23066.214F0701@lexacorp.com.pg> On 11 Aug 2004 at 17:51, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? > dteLastModified = FileDateTime(myFilename) -- Stuart From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 11 22:54:10 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:54:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] copying a table from every database in a folderinto another database Message-ID: I have a folder that contains from 90 - 110 Monarch generated Access databases with one non Msys type table each, each table is uniquely named the same as the database. How can I append a table from each database into another Access database? I can user fs to loop through the folder and get the table names. Could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks for any assistance, Jim From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 11 23:03:54 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:03:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] copying a table from every database in a folderinto another database In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <411B78CA.12825.21C29363@lexacorp.com.pg> On 11 Aug 2004 at 22:54, JMoss wrote: > I have a folder that contains from 90 - 110 Monarch generated Access > databases with one non Msys type table each, each table is uniquely named > the same as the database. How can I append a table from each database into > another Access database? I can user fs to loop through the folder and get > the table names. Could someone point me in the right direction? > Something like this? Function GetTables(Directory As String) As Long Dim strFilename As String DIim strTablename as String ChDir Directory strFilename = Dir$("*.mdb") strTablename = Left$(strFilename, Len(strFilename) - 4) While strFilename > "" DoCmd.TransferDatabase acImport, , strFilename, acTable, _ strTablename, strTablename strFilename = Dir$() Wend End Function -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 11 23:12:41 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:12:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] copying a table from every database in a folderinto another database In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <411B7AD9.26187.21CA9C07@lexacorp.com.pg> On 11 Aug 2004 at 22:54, JMoss wrote: > the same as the database. How can I append a table from each database into > another Access database? Just read this again. Do you mean you want to append all of the other tables into one. If so, you;ll need to add another couple of lines to my previous post. Include this before the "strFIlename = Dir$()" Currentdb.Execute "Insert into myTable select * from " & strTablename DoCmd.DeleteObject acTable, strFilename -- Stuart From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 11 23:35:11 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 23:35:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] copying a table from every database in a folder into another database In-Reply-To: <411B7AD9.26187.21CA9C07@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, Thanks for the speedy reply. The append to a single table is the next step after some massaging and the tables are in three different layouts: AP, AR and ONH. I have to append three columns to each table and parse the table name into parts for source, ERP, and location. Table name is like 11iARAgingC06, where the first three or four characters are for ERP type, ie Oracle 11i or 1103, after that comes either ARAging, APAging, or OnHold, and following that is a three digit location code. I just pulled the zipped Monarch folder off my thumb drive and am going to try it out. Once again, Thanks Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] copying a table from every database in afolderinto another database On 11 Aug 2004 at 22:54, JMoss wrote: > the same as the database. How can I append a table from each database into > another Access database? Just read this again. Do you mean you want to append all of the other tables into one. If so, you;ll need to add another couple of lines to my previous post. Include this before the "strFIlename = Dir$()" Currentdb.Execute "Insert into myTable select * from " & strTablename DoCmd.DeleteObject acTable, strFilename -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 11 23:53:01 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:53:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] copying a table from every database in a folderinto another database In-Reply-To: <411B7AD9.26187.21CA9C07@lexacorp.com.pg> References: Message-ID: <411B844D.25787.21EF8B79@lexacorp.com.pg> On 12 Aug 2004 at 14:12, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > DoCmd.DeleteObject acTable, strFilename Obviously that should have been ... strTablename. D*mned computers, why can't they tell what I mean :-) -- Stuart From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 12 00:12:42 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:12:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] copying a table from every database ina folderinto another database In-Reply-To: <411B844D.25787.21EF8B79@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: When kids start being born with Bluetooth connectors at the brain stem... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] copying a table from every database ina folderinto another database On 12 Aug 2004 at 14:12, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > DoCmd.DeleteObject acTable, strFilename Obviously that should have been ... strTablename. D*mned computers, why can't they tell what I mean :-) -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu Aug 12 03:14:41 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:14:41 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified Message-ID: <32458262.1092298481507.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Rocky, If you set a reference to Microsoft Scripting Runtime then add the following code: Dim fsys As New FileSystemObject Dim dtProductsCSV As Date Dim fProductsCSV As Object Set fProductsCSV = fsys.GetFile(FilePath & FileName) dtProductsCSV = fProductsCSV.DateLastModified Message date : Aug 12 2004, 01:53 AM >From : "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To : AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Date Modified Dear List: Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? TIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 06:17:29 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:17:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I thought you might enjoy that website. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions ROTFLMAO! That was hilarious! A quote from that site: Invent your own hopelessly complex naming conventions, then berate everyone else for not following them. Hmmmmmmm......sounds exactly like Hungarian.........I guess everyone hopped on that wagon, cause they were tired of being berated! LOL Though what I liked the best was: Obscure film references : Use constant names like LancelotsFavouriteColour instead of blue and assign it hex value of 0x0204FB. The color looks identical to pure blue on the screen, and a maintenance programmer would have to work out 0204FB (or use some graphic tool) to know what it looks like. Only someone intimately familiar with Monty Python and the Holy Grail would know that Lancelot's favorite color was blue. If a maintenance programmer can't quote entire Monty Python movies from memory, he or she has no business being a programmer. So true, so true.....Monty Python is required viewing! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew your naming convention reasoning lead me to the following web page... http://mindprod.com/unmainnaming.html Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 06:21:22 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:21:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: In production code, I do not use just rs for a variable to hold a recordset. I usually do something like... dim rsEmployees as Recordset If I'm writing a test function, I may use rs. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Do you ever use rs for Recordset? Dim rs As Recordset Set rs = CurrentDB.OpenRecordset("tblSomething",dbOpenTable) Why use rs? Or do you use rsSomethingTable? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Andrew, The point is that Microsoft is using some kind of convention. 'ii = new Inventory Item' (as Drew suggested) isn't a naming convention for easily maintained code. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 1:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. And you call II for Inventory Item a naming convention? Why not just call it I and be done with it. That's after all a 100% reduction in keystrokes! If speed of typing the code is all that matters why add the extra I? It does nothing for me! Would you call I for inventory item a naming convention? I think we need to redefine the term naming convention in that case. I call it as I see it which is "in too much of a hurry to bother". Further much of Microsoft's argument has nothing to do with strongly typed so much as the availability of intellisense which is just a STUPID argument. Now I have to place the cursor over something to see what it is. STUPID! STUPID!! STUPID!!! The fact that Microsoft is proud of their intellisense (and rightfully so, it is WONDERFUL) in no way makes it a replacement for a naming convention. STUPID! >In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. Yea. I kinda draw the line at II as a naming convention. I have indeed worked at many different companies, using many different conventions. I must admit I've never seen II accepted as a variable name at any of them though. Actually I take it back, back in the wild and woolly old west days when 'C' was just getting started, and only real men used it, they did do some of that kind of stuff. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, the Marshals moved in, Judges were appointed and hanging the rustlers from the nearest tree was banished. Or so I thought. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_ObjectNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 06:31:50 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:31:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 06:35:39 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:35:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Programming conventions... was Naming Conventions Message-ID: Why not use an Exit statement? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:07 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I remember that thread. I said I used Goto's when needed. I honestly don't use them very often. I use them in errorhandling, and I use them in particular loops where I want a loop with various conditions. But again, I don't use them to jump code around for willy nilly reasons. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I remember talking about spaghetti code around a year or so ago. Wasn't it you who said that you used goto's liberally? Now I'm starting to sound like a troll. I'll stop. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Still don't see what point you are trying to make. There are people on the list (other then me) who have said they use i, j, k. Then there are people that use long variable definitions. Going either way is leaving the client a 50/50 shot as to having the next developer use the same methods. Do you understand what I am saying JC? If everyone used the same methods, and I was the only person in the world that was different, then I would have to change, because it doesn't make logic sense, and I would be hurting my clients. But I'm NOT the lone wolf on this. There IS NO world wide standard, that everyone else adheres too. There are camps. Camps of people that feel one way or the other. If you belong to Camp A, you can't possible write code to satisfy other Camp A folks, and Camp B, and Camp C, etc. If you stick to Camp A, your client has the same chance of getting a new developer from the right camp, no matter what camp you decide to align with. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using I Which is unfortunately the crux of the matter. It's all about "I". Programming is supposed to be about the client, THEIR software, THEIR maintenance costs if you are hit by a bus. NOT about "I find it easier to remember". When I come in to maintain your software I don't have your memories to work with! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 09:09:55 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:09:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB279@main2.marlow.com> Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 09:11:08 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:11:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB27A@main2.marlow.com> Actually, with a lot of my projects, the naming convention would be the least of anyone's worries..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Not to mention the job security it offers, since no one else can figure it out! LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:05 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions LOL. Not trying to impress you with ii. In fact, I only put that in the post cause I knew it would rile you up....hmmmm...mission accomplished! LOL I do use it though. Simply because I'm not coding to impress anyone. I'm coding in a method that I find quick to develop, easy to understand, and simple to maintain. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Scott, You are correct, I am not saying that. I have seen some of the things that Drew does and I am VERY impressed with his skill as a programmer. I am not impressed with a variable name of II. There is more to being a good programmer than lines of code per day, or the coolness of your algorithm. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Scott Marcus [mailto:marcus at tsstech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, You are exactly right. Best practices in no way imply that someone's code is worst practice, just not best practice. I think some members of the list take it that if you don't follow best practice, then you stink as a programmer. I don't think you are saying that. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >would you really want: Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long No, I'd want lngFldCnt. In my world: lng is an abbreviation for long (everywhere) Fld is an abbreviation for Field (everywhere) Cnt is an abbreviation for Count or counter (everywhere) I DO use EXACTLY that syntax in that situation. I would NEVER use i in that situation. I do NOT switch on and off my use of naming conventions "because it's just a little piece of code". A million line program is nothing more than 100,000 little pieces of code. I wrote code for a small company out in Carlsbad, CA called Puritan-Bennett. They make ventilators. That is life support equipment. They do things differently simply because the FDA (or some such government agency) forces them to. If your code fails someone could die. They do code reviews. Three man teams that look at EVERY line of code. You take notes, which are published. You fix ALL issues found in the code review. You do another code review. You review the code line by line, looking for issues, but also looking for fixes to the issues found last time. You take notes which are published. You fix every issue found in the code review. Repeat until no issues found. They have written guidelines. Things like: No magic numbers (you must use named constants). ALL case statements have an else that logs an error message if you ever get there. Comments! Naming conventions ALL the time. Dimming all variables, always, with explicit data types. Comments! Using exactly the data type needed. NO automatic coercion (no depending on the compiler to get it right). If you want to coerce a variable you do it explicitly. Comments! Etc. and many many more! You do it that way or you find another job. The things they do are not bad, in fact they are very useful. A little extreme sometimes but very useful. You learn good programming practices and you use them. ALWAYS, not just when you feel like it. 10 (no, closer to 15 years) later I still use many of them. I would love to do code reviews but they just aren't possible in the situations I find myself in nowadays. By the way, these things mentioned above (and more) are simply known as best practices and you can find white papers and even books that describe them in detail. I did not make them up, nor did Puritan-Bennett. They exist because companies found that the costs of best practices are far outweighed by the costs of fixing the bugs that lack of best practices allow to exist. You make up some example to justify lazy programming. There is no justifying lazy programming, just admit that you don't feel like doing it (and nobody is forcing you to do it) and get on with life. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Okay JC, if I did this: Dim i as Long Dim rs As Recordset Dim strFieldNames as String ....(Opening Recordset) For i=0 to rs.Fields.Count-1 strFieldNames=strFieldNames & rs.Fields(i).Name & ", " Next i strFieldNames=Left(strFieldNames, Len(strFieldNames)-2) would you really want Dim lngFieldCollectionCounter As Long ????? Give me a break! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 09:14:16 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:14:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB27B@main2.marlow.com> Of course it doesn't....that would make life too easy! LOL. I love getting error messages that are so vague they let to spin your wheels for a few days before you accidentally trip over the solution! Gotta love it! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I'm still tweaking it. I've had two apps from the start. A few things like the license expiring will stuff it royally, and any error that pops up a dialog. I'm on the heels of one, and testing to see whether I have plugged it, but only time will tell. Naturally, the error message received doesn't seem to have any relationship to what is actually going on! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:22 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 That's pretty much what I was saying. You have 2 apps, one to run the process, one to cycle the first. Is that setup still locking up? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I don't quite know what loop you mean. When the restart app opens, it writes a status flag to the registry. We could have used text files or some other means, but the registry usage is consistent with our other apps. The primary app is waiting to see that flag before it shuts down. Once it sees it, the primary app writes a flag of its own and issues a Quit. If the restart app fails to open or doesn't write the flag, then the primary app doesn't shut down, it resets its restart interval for an hour later and goes about its business. Meanwhile the restart app is waiting for the flag from the primary app. It has already captured the hWnd of the primary app window, so it starts checking to see if the window has finally closed. It doesn't attempt to restart the primary app until that window is closed. It tries for up to 5 minutes to fail when trying to return the WindowText of that window. If the window never closes, the restart app shuts itself down after writing a failure status to the registry and it retains the log text file it has been writing along the way. That means that even if the primary app closes but the Access window stays open for some reason, the restart is never attempted. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 A funny side not to my earlier post. I had a ton of windows open on my screen for the last few days....and about an hour ago, I started closing things. One of the items running, was that 'test' db I whipped up. It was still going. I thought that was odd, because it couldn't have ported that much information (into 97 .mdb). So I killed it. Took a look at the file size, and it was only 11 megs. I think that it was 'reporting' that it was working, but still had the same 'lock'. Can you take your code of the loop, and have it run it externally, so your code truly starts, and truly stops, before getting started again? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 6:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 No, I've checked that. It takes over 80,000 imports to make the db get up to 1.5 Gb without any compact on close (tested it). We do a compact on close to compact the file when it is shutdown and restarted. The restart app keeps checking to make sure the window has completely closed before it tries to restart the application in order to handle the compact on close delay. In the test situation, we're overwriting the same data repeatedly to the same folder, and the temp files are being deleted after import, so the space should be available for reuse. I have seen no indication that memory use is spiking or that is is even approaching the limits. The free space on the drive doesn't appear to be suffering, nor does the available resouces for other apps. Between restarts, the database bloats up to 50MB to 150MB, depending on how many zip files we use in the test. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 3:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 On 9 Aug 2004 at 9:39, Charlotte Foust wrote: > I may have misled you. The same file is being unzipped to another > folder, the multiple text files imported from that folder into > temporary tables, and the temp folder cleared. Then the data is moved > from the temporary tables to the main tables. Then a timer starts and > the next check for files to import doesn't happen until the timer > interval has elapsed. > If you are filling and clearing temporary tables hundreds of times, are you sure it's not a case of the database bloating - either until it hits the 2GB barrier or the workstation runs out of space on the working drive? -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 09:25:26 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:25:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Programming conventions... was Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB27C@main2.marlow.com> I do most of the time. It just depends on how the logic is running. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Programming conventions... was Naming Conventions Why not use an Exit statement? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:07 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I remember that thread. I said I used Goto's when needed. I honestly don't use them very often. I use them in errorhandling, and I use them in particular loops where I want a loop with various conditions. But again, I don't use them to jump code around for willy nilly reasons. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I remember talking about spaghetti code around a year or so ago. Wasn't it you who said that you used goto's liberally? Now I'm starting to sound like a troll. I'll stop. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:27 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Still don't see what point you are trying to make. There are people on the list (other then me) who have said they use i, j, k. Then there are people that use long variable definitions. Going either way is leaving the client a 50/50 shot as to having the next developer use the same methods. Do you understand what I am saying JC? If everyone used the same methods, and I was the only person in the world that was different, then I would have to change, because it doesn't make logic sense, and I would be hurting my clients. But I'm NOT the lone wolf on this. There IS NO world wide standard, that everyone else adheres too. There are camps. Camps of people that feel one way or the other. If you belong to Camp A, you can't possible write code to satisfy other Camp A folks, and Camp B, and Camp C, etc. If you stick to Camp A, your client has the same chance of getting a new developer from the right camp, no matter what camp you decide to align with. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using I Which is unfortunately the crux of the matter. It's all about "I". Programming is supposed to be about the client, THEIR software, THEIR maintenance costs if you are hit by a bus. NOT about "I find it easier to remember". When I come in to maintain your software I don't have your memories to work with! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 12 09:56:34 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:56:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <000801c47ff2$e8564e80$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <030601c4807c$8f9d3080$6601a8c0@rock> Back in the dark ages of C/PM and dBASE II, I met a young guy who loved macros so much that he evolved a programming style very similar to your suggested style. Macros in the dBASE context worked like this: store something in a string (i.e. a command name or a column name, etc.), then preface it with an ampersand, which would tell dBASE to interpret the word and use the result. Kind of like pointers to functions, for those conversant with C. Use Customers List CompanyName, Phone U = "use" C = "Customers" L = "List" CNP = "CompanyName, Phone" &U &C &L &CNP This guy's main reason was his inability to type quickly. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions ROTFLMAOBTC. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions My new email writing convention... New variables will be assigned in the future. This will save loads of keystrokes latter on. You will need to refer back to this and any new messages to understand the logic. Please make note now. Dim a as string = "John," Dim b as string = "I" Dim c as string = "love" Dim d as string = "it" Dim e as string = "when" Dim f as string = "you" Dim g as string = "get" Dim h as string = "on" Dim i as string = "a" Dim j as string = "roll." Dim k as string = "Scott Marcus" a b c d e f g h i j k Sorry, I could not resist! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 12 10:00:02 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:00:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified In-Reply-To: <32458262.1092298481507.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <030701c4807d$0b760dd0$6601a8c0@rock> That will work where the scripting runtime is installed, but IME almost every company forbids its installation because it is so potentially dangerous. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Modified Rocky, If you set a reference to Microsoft Scripting Runtime then add the following code: Dim fsys As New FileSystemObject Dim dtProductsCSV As Date Dim fProductsCSV As Object Set fProductsCSV = fsys.GetFile(FilePath & FileName) dtProductsCSV = fProductsCSV.DateLastModified Message date : Aug 12 2004, 01:53 AM >From : "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To : AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Date Modified Dear List: Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? TIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu Aug 12 10:06:00 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:06:00 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified Message-ID: <2637826.1092323160140.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Never knew about this, what are the potential dangers ? Message date : Aug 12 2004, 04:04 PM >From : "Arthur Fuller" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Date Modified That will work where the scripting runtime is installed, but IME almost every company forbids its installation because it is so potentially dangerous. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Modified Rocky, If you set a reference to Microsoft Scripting Runtime then add the following code: Dim fsys As New FileSystemObject Dim dtProductsCSV As Date Dim fProductsCSV As Object Set fProductsCSV = fsys.GetFile(FilePath & FileName) dtProductsCSV = fProductsCSV.DateLastModified Message date : Aug 12 2004, 01:53 AM >From : "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To : AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Date Modified Dear List: Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? TIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 10:10:10 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:10:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: By the time he remembers all that(down the road), he could type it out. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:57 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Back in the dark ages of C/PM and dBASE II, I met a young guy who loved macros so much that he evolved a programming style very similar to your suggested style. Macros in the dBASE context worked like this: store something in a string (i.e. a command name or a column name, etc.), then preface it with an ampersand, which would tell dBASE to interpret the word and use the result. Kind of like pointers to functions, for those conversant with C. Use Customers List CompanyName, Phone U = "use" C = "Customers" L = "List" CNP = "CompanyName, Phone" &U &C &L &CNP This guy's main reason was his inability to type quickly. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions ROTFLMAOBTC. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions My new email writing convention... New variables will be assigned in the future. This will save loads of keystrokes latter on. You will need to refer back to this and any new messages to understand the logic. Please make note now. Dim a as string = "John," Dim b as string = "I" Dim c as string = "love" Dim d as string = "it" Dim e as string = "when" Dim f as string = "you" Dim g as string = "get" Dim h as string = "on" Dim i as string = "a" Dim j as string = "roll." Dim k as string = "Scott Marcus" a b c d e f g h i j k Sorry, I could not resist! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 12 10:10:47 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:10:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB27B@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <030901c4807e$8bf2db40$6601a8c0@rock> I must be on a nostalgia kick today. The first compiler I learned to use was from Digital Research and was called CB-80. It was a BASIC compiler. I still remember my favourite error message: "An error has been detected for which there is no error message." Stuff like that makes MS-Help look eloquent. See? It's all a question of context. I remember some C/PM programs that actually expected their users to be able to enter Hex numbers! One night long ago, I had a dream in which I FINALLY figured out how to translate decimal into hex and vice-versa, in my head. My then-wife told me about it next morning. Apparently, I awoke suddenly, sat bolt upright and said, "Yes! 16 times 4 is 64! Now I get it!" and promptly fell back asleep. She left me shortly thereafter. A. P.S. This has happened more than once. I have a dream that solves some programming problem, and soon afterwards my significant woman departs :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:14 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Of course it doesn't....that would make life too easy! LOL. I love getting error messages that are so vague they let to spin your wheels for a few days before you accidentally trip over the solution! Gotta love it! Drew From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 10:11:08 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:11:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB27E@main2.marlow.com> About 5 years (give or take a bit, depending on what system we are talking about). Just out of curiousity, what does this prove? When someone with this vast programming experience has a networking issue, shouldn't they have all that experience working with computers, to just figure out what is wrong? Should I ask them how long they have been using computers for? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 12 10:23:06 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:23:06 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified In-Reply-To: <2637826.1092323160140.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <411C17F9.16406.617E5F@lexacorp.com.pg> On 12 Aug 2004 at 17:06, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >> That will work where the scripting runtime is installed, but IME almost >> every company forbids its installation because it is so potentially >> dangerous. > Never knew about this, what are the potential dangers ? Viruses/trojans commonly use it. I always disable it on all my client's machines. Talking of scripting, if anyone is familiar with AutoIt, I've just discovered that a new Version 3 was released earlier this year. It's a huge improvement over v2. See http://www.hiddensoft.com/autoit3/ For those who aren't familiar with it: "AutoIt v3 is an opensource BASIC-like scripting language designed for automating the Windows GUI. It uses a combination of simulated keystrokes, mouse movement and window/control manipulation in order to automate tasks in a way not possible or reliable with other languages (e.g. VBScript and SendKeys). AutoIt was initially designed for PC "roll out" situations to configure thousands of PCs, but with the arrival of v3 it is also well suited to performing home automation and the scripting of repetitive tasks. AutoIt can: * Provide a general-purpose scripting language * Execute Windows and DOS executables * Simulate key-strokes (supports most keyboard layouts) * Simulate mouse movements and clicks * Move, resize and manipulate windows * Interact directly with "controls" on a window (set/get text from edit controls, check boxes and radio buttons, select items in drop-down lists, etc.) * Work with the clipboard to cut/paste text items * Work with the registry Unlike AutoIt v2, the new v3 language has a much more standard syntax - similar to VBScript and BASIC - and now supports complex expressions, user functions, looping and everything else that veteran scripters would expect." Note, you can also compile AutoIt scripts into very tight standalone applications. A great little tool. -- Stuart From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 10:25:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:25:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB27F@main2.marlow.com> Maybe the signigicant women in your life are just holding you back.... LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:11 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I must be on a nostalgia kick today. The first compiler I learned to use was from Digital Research and was called CB-80. It was a BASIC compiler. I still remember my favourite error message: "An error has been detected for which there is no error message." Stuff like that makes MS-Help look eloquent. See? It's all a question of context. I remember some C/PM programs that actually expected their users to be able to enter Hex numbers! One night long ago, I had a dream in which I FINALLY figured out how to translate decimal into hex and vice-versa, in my head. My then-wife told me about it next morning. Apparently, I awoke suddenly, sat bolt upright and said, "Yes! 16 times 4 is 64! Now I get it!" and promptly fell back asleep. She left me shortly thereafter. A. P.S. This has happened more than once. I have a dream that solves some programming problem, and soon afterwards my significant woman departs :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:14 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Of course it doesn't....that would make life too easy! LOL. I love getting error messages that are so vague they let to spin your wheels for a few days before you accidentally trip over the solution! Gotta love it! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 12 10:34:19 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:34:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <411C1A9B.28459.6BC674@lexacorp.com.pg> Charlotte, Just had a problem with another program and came across a freeware utility that may help you track down what is happening with your app. Process Explorer for SysInternals http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/procexp.shtml Tells you everything you want to know about what resources etc a process is using. -- Stuart From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Thu Aug 12 10:35:41 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:35:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: Can I make these changes the instant the User enters a text box, please? If Not IsNull([txtFun]) Then Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbRed Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbYellow Else Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbWhite Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbBlack End If I mean as he types "y" for "yes", or anything at all? The above doesn't work till the record changes. Cheers paul From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 10:37:18 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:37:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 10:41:26 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:41:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I'm just saying that you probably were not programming when no one used naming conventions. Not a dig at your experience/ability at all. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions About 5 years (give or take a bit, depending on what system we are talking about). Just out of curiousity, what does this prove? When someone with this vast programming experience has a networking issue, shouldn't they have all that experience working with computers, to just figure out what is wrong? Should I ask them how long they have been using computers for? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu Aug 12 10:54:20 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:54:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: After setting KeyPreview to True for the form, I think you want to look at the KeyPress event for the control. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Can I make these changes the instant the User enters a text box, please? If Not IsNull([txtFun]) Then Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbRed Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbYellow Else Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbWhite Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbBlack End If I mean as he types "y" for "yes", or anything at all? The above doesn't work till the record changes. Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 12 10:55:50 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:55:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified In-Reply-To: <2637826.1092323160140.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <031b01c48084$d807e150$6601a8c0@rock> If the scripting run-time is installed, Outlook and Oexpress become major points of weakness. Should the hapless user open an attachment, all hell could break loose. I personally have the scripting stuff installed, but at least in theory I know what I'm doing -- having shot myself in the foot numerous times, I'm now an alleged expert! But I wish I knew 1/10 as much about hardware as I do about software. The simplest hardware + network issues can baffle me for days and weeks. I have had the ostensible luxury of working in environments where other people handled all that stuff, and I concentrated on the software apps. As a result, I'm appallingly ignorant about hardware and network stuff. There are abundant examples of truly dangerous scripts. Assuming you're safely backed up, you could run a few on your own machine to see the potential. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified Never knew about this, what are the potential dangers ? From JColby at dispec.com Thu Aug 12 10:56:44 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:56:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB8@DISABILITYINS01> Use the OnEnter event of the text box. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Can I make these changes the instant the User enters a text box, please? If Not IsNull([txtFun]) Then Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbRed Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbYellow Else Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbWhite Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbBlack End If I mean as he types "y" for "yes", or anything at all? The above doesn't work till the record changes. Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 12 10:57:08 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:57:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <031c01c48085$05cbbb20$6601a8c0@rock> Any second JC will respond with a message suggesting that you use a class for this! Write it once, use it everywhere. JC, where are you? A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Can I make these changes the instant the User enters a text box, please? If Not IsNull([txtFun]) Then Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbRed Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbYellow Else Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbWhite Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbBlack End If I mean as he types "y" for "yes", or anything at all? The above doesn't work till the record changes. Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Thu Aug 12 10:57:09 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040812155709.31880.qmail@web20426.mail.yahoo.com> If you want to change the properties as soon as the user enters the field then you have to put that code in the text box's On Got Focus event. Paul Rodgers wrote: Can I make these changes the instant the User enters a text box, please? If Not IsNull([txtFun]) Then Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbRed Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbYellow Else Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbWhite Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbBlack End If I mean as he types "y" for "yes", or anything at all? The above doesn't work till the record changes. Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 10:58:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:58:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB282@main2.marlow.com> Actually, when I was a kid, I did program in Basic.....good ol' DOS. No naming convention at all, no classes, just ABC, and XYZ. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just saying that you probably were not programming when no one used naming conventions. Not a dig at your experience/ability at all. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions About 5 years (give or take a bit, depending on what system we are talking about). Just out of curiousity, what does this prove? When someone with this vast programming experience has a networking issue, shouldn't they have all that experience working with computers, to just figure out what is wrong? Should I ask them how long they have been using computers for? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWhoIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariableRepr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Thu Aug 12 11:00:24 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:00:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1A4@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> If you're using A2K or higher, use Conditional Formatting. It's easy to set up and it's instantaneous. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Can I make these changes the instant the User enters a text box, please? If Not IsNull([txtFun]) Then Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbRed Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbYellow Else Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbWhite Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbBlack End If I mean as he types "y" for "yes", or anything at all? The above doesn't work till the record changes. Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 11:01:18 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:01:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB283@main2.marlow.com> Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 11:06:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:06:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB284@main2.marlow.com> I do have a copy of the I LOVE YOU virus, if anyone want's to see how dangerous a VBScript can be....LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified If the scripting run-time is installed, Outlook and Oexpress become major points of weakness. Should the hapless user open an attachment, all hell could break loose. I personally have the scripting stuff installed, but at least in theory I know what I'm doing -- having shot myself in the foot numerous times, I'm now an alleged expert! But I wish I knew 1/10 as much about hardware as I do about software. The simplest hardware + network issues can baffle me for days and weeks. I have had the ostensible luxury of working in environments where other people handled all that stuff, and I concentrated on the software apps. As a result, I'm appallingly ignorant about hardware and network stuff. There are abundant examples of truly dangerous scripts. Assuming you're safely backed up, you could run a few on your own machine to see the potential. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified Never knew about this, what are the potential dangers ? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Thu Aug 12 11:21:23 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:21:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDB9@DISABILITYINS01> I'll be sending the FBI around to your house. They are looking for a virus writer somewhere down in Texas. ;-) -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:06 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified I do have a copy of the I LOVE YOU virus, if anyone want's to see how dangerous a VBScript can be....LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified If the scripting run-time is installed, Outlook and Oexpress become major points of weakness. Should the hapless user open an attachment, all hell could break loose. I personally have the scripting stuff installed, but at least in theory I know what I'm doing -- having shot myself in the foot numerous times, I'm now an alleged expert! But I wish I knew 1/10 as much about hardware as I do about software. The simplest hardware + network issues can baffle me for days and weeks. I have had the ostensible luxury of working in environments where other people handled all that stuff, and I concentrated on the software apps. As a result, I'm appallingly ignorant about hardware and network stuff. There are abundant examples of truly dangerous scripts. Assuming you're safely backed up, you could run a few on your own machine to see the potential. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified Never knew about this, what are the potential dangers ? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Aug 12 11:22:02 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:22:02 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15234531463.20040812182202@cactus.dk> Hi Paul To completely confuse you, Change (your own suggestion) is the event to pick for this. It works also for a paste of text by the user. Also, you could lighten your code a bit and use the Text property: With Me!txtFun If Len(.Text) > 0 Then .BackColor = vbRed .ForeColor = vbYellow Else .BackColor = vbWhite .ForeColor = vbBlack End If End With Or use two variables for the colours. /gustav > Can I make these changes the instant the User enters a text box, please? > If Not IsNull([txtFun]) Then > Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbRed > Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbYellow > Else > Me.txtFun.BackColor = vbWhite > Me.txtFun.ForeColor = vbBlack > End If > I mean as he types "y" for "yes", or anything at all? The above doesn't work > till the record changes. From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 11:25:27 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:25:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: The Dim has nothing to do with it. It's how it is used. What if ii was 'InventoryID' now ii and i are the same type (according to what you have said) both are long integers. Now when I do some coding in that loop, I flinch and type ii when it should have been i. Yet everything including a compile seems fine.... Why am I even trying to make up an error? If I could ensure no errors were ever made(at whatever stage...development, debug, maintenance), then I wouldn't use any conventions at all, just pure speed to market and speed of the application to drive my coding whims. The 'how does this make less mistakes' to your question depends on the circumstance. You either see the benefit or you don't. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Thu Aug 12 11:26:15 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:26:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDBA@DISABILITYINS01> >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 11:45:47 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:45:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB286@main2.marlow.com> No, would never use ii for a long, only i,j,k... And i,j,k would never be for an object. Of course, if ii was an InventoryItem, then ii.ID would be the Inventory ID value. No need for another variable. No one has commented on my 'With' statement question either. If the prefix is supposed to prevent a maintenance programmer from having to go look at the dimensioning of the variable, then wouldn't With be 'bad practice', because you'd have to look for the With statement to 'know' what object is the base object. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions The Dim has nothing to do with it. It's how it is used. What if ii was 'InventoryID' now ii and i are the same type (according to what you have said) both are long integers. Now when I do some coding in that loop, I flinch and type ii when it should have been i. Yet everything including a compile seems fine.... Why am I even trying to make up an error? If I could ensure no errors were ever made(at whatever stage...development, debug, maintenance), then I wouldn't use any conventions at all, just pure speed to market and speed of the application to drive my coding whims. The 'how does this make less mistakes' to your question depends on the circumstance. You either see the benefit or you don't. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 11:48:29 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:48:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB287@main2.marlow.com> True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 12:14:11 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:14:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <<...should be reconsidered sometimes. Maybe you should reconsider. Again you imply that we are wrong. We are only pointing out what is considered a better way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 12 12:14:09 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:14:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA Access Obfuscation Contest In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB283@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <032e01c4808f$c7e72730$6601a8c0@rock> The Naming Conventions thread has been most interesting and has prompted me to suggest an annual contest a la the classic DDJ C-Obfuscation contest. The point is to write a geruinely incomprehensible routine that does something useful. It would only make sense if we confined ourselves to say 5 candidate routines, Access-specific of course. Contributors could then submit a "solution" to any of the 5 problems. (A double-prize might be considered for code that does not even make it apparent which problem it is solving!) Step 1 is to gather the list of problems. I venture the following merely as a starting point. I haven't given any of them a lot of consideration, they are nothing more than something to shoot at, if you will. Somehow let's settle on 5 problems worth obfuscating. After that, obfuscation will be, heh heh, obvious. Herewith, 5 problems. Please feel free to shoot them down as insignificant or not worth writing etc. I would love to have the list come up with 5 genuinely interesting problems, on which to base the obfuscated solutions. None of them would be immediately useful in anyone's current project, but I think it would be fun to see the variants that contestants come up with. Five initial examples. Fire at will. Please come up with more interesting problems! 1. For every open form for every textbox make it read-only change the colours 2. Given tables Parent and Child, delete every third Parent record and all her children in the Child table. 3. Manufacture some test data in 4 tables: parent, child1, child2, and child2's child. The routine accepts the number of parents to create and the maximum number of child rows to create. Then it randomly adds kids (and grandkids) to tables 2, 3 and 4 for each parent, using the specified maximum. 4. Delete every file from every directory to which the user has access, while presenting warm and fuzzy messages. (Don't really delete them, just print a message suggesting that could have. Option: Tell them you HAVE deleted them, and offer recovery for $.05 a file. Bring up PayPal to complete the transaction. 5. Create an email to every person in your Outlook Contacts folder, announcing that your surgery was unsuccessful and you are now a refridgerator salesperson in Resolute Bay. Five stupid problems, I admit. Let's come up with five smart problems and then obfuscate their solutions! (At the least, each problem could become an issue of our newsletter, including the various solutions sent in by listers.) One obvious obfuscation technique is purposeful misuse of Hungarian. Dim strValue as Long ' the number of striations per meter of a given cave wall. Dim datLast as Currency ' how much you paid the hooker for your last "date". Dim booLevel as Byte ' scare factor in a horror movie focus group. Dim booLevel as Long ' WWE measurement as reported by microphones. Dim cboAvail as Boolean ' is this jazz musician available for work in a combo? But there are many more. Table names offer abundant opportunities to play. You get the idea, I hope.... Arthur From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 12 12:28:03 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:28:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Stupid SQL Tricks Message-ID: <033501c48091$b8fcb940$6601a8c0@rock> An Access table called StupidSQLTricks contains these columns: PK AutoNumber PK Select Text >From Text Where Text A row in this table contains: PK: 1 Select: * From: Customers Where: PK=1 A query on this table exists: SELECT StupidSQLTricks.PK, StupidSQLTricks.[Select], StupidSQLTricks.From, StupidSQLTricks.Where, "SELECT " & [Select] & " FROM " & [From] & " WHERE " & [Where] AS [SQL] FROM StupidSQLTricks WHERE (((StupidSQLTricks.PK)=1)); The output of the last column (SQL) is: SELECT * FROM Customers WHERE CustomerID='123' ------------------ This probably means that you could retrieve such a virtual column and EVAL() it. But I haven't checked that out yet. From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 12:39:56 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:39:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA AccessObfuscation Contest Message-ID: How about calculating when a year is a leap year? Public Function bolIsYear366DaysThereforeALeapYear(ByVal _ lngYearYouWantToCheck As Long) As Boolean Dim bolTrueOrFalseValue As Boolean If DateDiff("d", DateSerial(lngYearYouWantToCheck, 1, 1), _ DateSerial(lngYearYouWantToCheck, 12, 31)) = 365 Then bolTrueOrFalseValue = True Else bolTrueOrFalseValue = False End If bolIsYear366DaysThereforeALeapYear = bolTrueOrFalseValue End Function --OR-- Public Function LeapYear(ByVal i As Long) As Boolean Dim ly As Boolean If DateDiff("d", DateSerial(i, 1, 1), _ DateSerial(i, 12, 31)) = 365 Then ly = True Else ly = False End If LeapYear = ly End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA AccessObfuscation Contest The Naming Conventions thread has been most interesting and has prompted me to suggest an annual contest a la the classic DDJ C-Obfuscation contest. The point is to write a geruinely incomprehensible routine that does something useful. It would only make sense if we confined ourselves to say 5 candidate routines, Access-specific of course. Contributors could then submit a "solution" to any of the 5 problems. (A double-prize might be considered for code that does not even make it apparent which problem it is solving!) Step 1 is to gather the list of problems. I venture the following merely as a starting point. I haven't given any of them a lot of consideration, they are nothing more than something to shoot at, if you will. Somehow let's settle on 5 problems worth obfuscating. After that, obfuscation will be, heh heh, obvious. Herewith, 5 problems. Please feel free to shoot them down as insignificant or not worth writing etc. I would love to have the list come up with 5 genuinely interesting problems, on which to base the obfuscated solutions. None of them would be immediately useful in anyone's current project, but I think it would be fun to see the variants that contestants come up with. Five initial examples. Fire at will. Please come up with more interesting problems! 1. For every open form for every textbox make it read-only change the colours 2. Given tables Parent and Child, delete every third Parent record and all her children in the Child table. 3. Manufacture some test data in 4 tables: parent, child1, child2, and child2's child. The routine accepts the number of parents to create and the maximum number of child rows to create. Then it randomly adds kids (and grandkids) to tables 2, 3 and 4 for each parent, using the specified maximum. 4. Delete every file from every directory to which the user has access, while presenting warm and fuzzy messages. (Don't really delete them, just print a message suggesting that could have. Option: Tell them you HAVE deleted them, and offer recovery for $.05 a file. Bring up PayPal to complete the transaction. 5. Create an email to every person in your Outlook Contacts folder, announcing that your surgery was unsuccessful and you are now a refridgerator salesperson in Resolute Bay. Five stupid problems, I admit. Let's come up with five smart problems and then obfuscate their solutions! (At the least, each problem could become an issue of our newsletter, including the various solutions sent in by listers.) One obvious obfuscation technique is purposeful misuse of Hungarian. Dim strValue as Long ' the number of striations per meter of a given cave wall. Dim datLast as Currency ' how much you paid the hooker for your last "date". Dim booLevel as Byte ' scare factor in a horror movie focus group. Dim booLevel as Long ' WWE measurement as reported by microphones. Dim cboAvail as Boolean ' is this jazz musician available for work in a combo? But there are many more. Table names offer abundant opportunities to play. You get the idea, I hope.... Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 12 13:01:55 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:01:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBAAccessObfuscation Contest Message-ID: This one works also... Public Function LeapYear(ByVal i As Long) As Boolean Dim ly As Boolean ly = IIf(DateSerial(i, 2, 29) = DateSerial(i, 3, 1), False, True) LeapYear = ly End Function i is much easier to understand than lngYear ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBAAccessObfuscation Contest How about calculating when a year is a leap year? Public Function bolIsYear366DaysThereforeALeapYear(ByVal _ lngYearYouWantToCheck As Long) As Boolean Dim bolTrueOrFalseValue As Boolean If DateDiff("d", DateSerial(lngYearYouWantToCheck, 1, 1), _ DateSerial(lngYearYouWantToCheck, 12, 31)) = 365 Then bolTrueOrFalseValue = True Else bolTrueOrFalseValue = False End If bolIsYear366DaysThereforeALeapYear = bolTrueOrFalseValue End Function --OR-- Public Function LeapYear(ByVal i As Long) As Boolean Dim ly As Boolean ly = iif(dateserial(i,2,29) = dateserial(i,3,1), true, false)If LeapYear = ly End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA AccessObfuscation Contest The Naming Conventions thread has been most interesting and has prompted me to suggest an annual contest a la the classic DDJ C-Obfuscation contest. The point is to write a geruinely incomprehensible routine that does something useful. It would only make sense if we confined ourselves to say 5 candidate routines, Access-specific of course. Contributors could then submit a "solution" to any of the 5 problems. (A double-prize might be considered for code that does not even make it apparent which problem it is solving!) Step 1 is to gather the list of problems. I venture the following merely as a starting point. I haven't given any of them a lot of consideration, they are nothing more than something to shoot at, if you will. Somehow let's settle on 5 problems worth obfuscating. After that, obfuscation will be, heh heh, obvious. Herewith, 5 problems. Please feel free to shoot them down as insignificant or not worth writing etc. I would love to have the list come up with 5 genuinely interesting problems, on which to base the obfuscated solutions. None of them would be immediately useful in anyone's current project, but I think it would be fun to see the variants that contestants come up with. Five initial examples. Fire at will. Please come up with more interesting problems! 1. For every open form for every textbox make it read-only change the colours 2. Given tables Parent and Child, delete every third Parent record and all her children in the Child table. 3. Manufacture some test data in 4 tables: parent, child1, child2, and child2's child. The routine accepts the number of parents to create and the maximum number of child rows to create. Then it randomly adds kids (and grandkids) to tables 2, 3 and 4 for each parent, using the specified maximum. 4. Delete every file from every directory to which the user has access, while presenting warm and fuzzy messages. (Don't really delete them, just print a message suggesting that could have. Option: Tell them you HAVE deleted them, and offer recovery for $.05 a file. Bring up PayPal to complete the transaction. 5. Create an email to every person in your Outlook Contacts folder, announcing that your surgery was unsuccessful and you are now a refridgerator salesperson in Resolute Bay. Five stupid problems, I admit. Let's come up with five smart problems and then obfuscate their solutions! (At the least, each problem could become an issue of our newsletter, including the various solutions sent in by listers.) One obvious obfuscation technique is purposeful misuse of Hungarian. Dim strValue as Long ' the number of striations per meter of a given cave wall. Dim datLast as Currency ' how much you paid the hooker for your last "date". Dim booLevel as Byte ' scare factor in a horror movie focus group. Dim booLevel as Long ' WWE measurement as reported by microphones. Dim cboAvail as Boolean ' is this jazz musician available for work in a combo? But there are many more. Table names offer abundant opportunities to play. You get the idea, I hope.... Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pjewett at bayplace.com Thu Aug 12 13:16:20 2004 From: pjewett at bayplace.com (Phil Jewett) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:16:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing Message-ID: Dear List: I am looking for suggestions/products for adding credit card processing to an existing AXP order-processing application with about 10 users. Right now, the users get the credit card info over the phone and go to a credit card swiping machine to key in the info - what the client wants is to have a button on a form to do that. They get about 10-15 orders a day and typically ship the same or next day. In my own investigations I've learned something of the distinction between gateways and processors, and it appears that the latter would be sufficent for this application, but if using a gateway is a better approach I'd like to know that. Thanks in advance, Phil Jewett From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 13:27:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:27:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB288@main2.marlow.com> Didn't write it, just saved one of the thousands of copies we were hit with! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified I'll be sending the FBI around to your house. They are looking for a virus writer somewhere down in Texas. ;-) -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:06 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified I do have a copy of the I LOVE YOU virus, if anyone want's to see how dangerous a VBScript can be....LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified If the scripting run-time is installed, Outlook and Oexpress become major points of weakness. Should the hapless user open an attachment, all hell could break loose. I personally have the scripting stuff installed, but at least in theory I know what I'm doing -- having shot myself in the foot numerous times, I'm now an alleged expert! But I wish I knew 1/10 as much about hardware as I do about software. The simplest hardware + network issues can baffle me for days and weeks. I have had the ostensible luxury of working in environments where other people handled all that stuff, and I concentrated on the software apps. As a result, I'm appallingly ignorant about hardware and network stuff. There are abundant examples of truly dangerous scripts. Assuming you're safely backed up, you could run a few on your own machine to see the potential. A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: RE: [AccessD] Date Modified Never knew about this, what are the potential dangers ? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Aug 12 13:29:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:29:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB289@main2.marlow.com> No, I am implying that I am flexible, and 'you' (the 'we' camp) are not. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions <<...should be reconsidered sometimes. Maybe you should reconsider. Again you imply that we are wrong. We are only pointing out what is considered a better way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Thu Aug 12 14:23:50 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:23:50 -0400 Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDBB@DISABILITYINS01> ROTFL. I'm here. And yes, write a class, which you will then put in your framework. Use SysVars to turn it on and off. If you have any questions what I am referring to go to: www.colbyconsulting.com Click C2DbFW3G. Start reading the lectures on classes and frameworks. Speaking of classes, one of the places where classes make a lot of sense is in building data structures that know how to do things. I am building a system to export (insurance) data to a mainframe. The mainframe apparently already has a system for importing data and I have to match that. The data is in a fixed width format, records of about 3000 characters, horribly denormalized. The client company gave me a field map. something like: LuminexFldName FldStart FldEnd Length LX-POLICY-GROUP 1 20 20 LX-TYPE-COV(1) OCCURS 16 TIMES 25 27 3 LX-TYPE-PLAN(1) OCCURS 16 TIMES 73 92 20 LX-EFFDATE 449 456 8 LX-LASTNAME 457 471 15 LX-FRSTNAME 472 486 15 LX-MI 487 487 1 LX-ADDR1 488 517 30 LX-CITY 518 537 20 LX-STATE 538 539 2 LX-ZIP 540 548 9 LX-GENDER 549 549 1 LX-DOB 550 557 8 LX-SSN 558 566 9 LX-SALARY 1551 1561 11 LX-ADDR2 1612 1636 25 LX-COUNTRY 1657 1664 8 LX-INITIAL-EFFDATE 1825 1832 8 LX-FILLER2 2397 2799 403 LX-END-CHAR 2800 2800 1 The field map included a TON more fields, but these mapped to fields in our database where they wanted to get data from us. So I Imported the entire field map into a table inside of Access. I then added additional fields to hold our matching field name as well as the "format" that they wanted the data field output, if it is a date it has to be "yyyymmdd", if currency it has to be "XXXXX.YYYY". I wrote a query to pull all of the records for fields where they want data. This allows us to add / subtract fields exported just by filling in our field name. If our field name exists in the table then they want that data. Since they tell me where in this 3000 character string each piece of data should be placed I have the tools to build an export system. I wanted to have it "table driven", i.e. if the client said they wanted new data in "their field Y" then I just add that data to my query and place my query field alias name in their field map table and it would export the next time the report ran. I built a class that holds one record from tblFldMap. I built a "supervisor" class that opens the select query that pulls all the "active" records from the field map, and loads an instance of clsFldMap passing in their field name, our field name, the start and start positions and the field length and the format. I save each instance of clsFldMap in a collection, keyed on our field name. clsFldMap then knows where in the string the data goes, how long it's data has to be, and the format that it has to get the data into before placing it into the string. I built a DataInsert class method that formats the data, pads it to the correct length, and inserts it into a string passed in. The supervisor then opens the recordset that pulls our data out, builds a big 3000 character string of spaces, looks up the clsFldMap in the collection using the field name it is processing, and calls the DataInsert method passing the data to insert and the string to place the field in. The supervisor iterates through all the fields in the query, for each record in the query, passing the data and the string, over and over, for each field in our data. By the end of processing a single record the supervisor now has a 3000 byte string with data embedded in it in various places. The supervisor now writes that string to a text file on the disk. Next record to export. Continue until EOF recordset. The point here is that by using classes and breaking the labor down into logical units, the system just works and expanding the system is just a matter of adding (or deleting) a field to a query that pulls the data to export, and adding my query's field name into the client's field map. The clsFldMap knows how to format the data it is given, how to pad it to get it to the right length, and how to drop it into the big string. The clsSupervisor knows how to load the set of clsFldMap into a collection, open the data query, process each field of the data query, passing the data and the output string to the clsFldMap, and when all fields are processed, write that string to a disk file. BTW, 635 records each with 28 fields, each record inserted into a 3000 character string with about 296 possible fields, written to a disk file of approximately 1.3 mbytes takes about 3 seconds on my 2.4g desktop system. BTW2, Classes are an extraordinary tool for breaking what appear to be complex processes down into manageable pieces, placing the processing close to the data and building the system back up as modules that each do their own part. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:57 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Any second JC will respond with a message suggesting that you use a class for this! Write it once, use it everywhere. JC, where are you? A. From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Aug 12 14:04:11 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:04:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE73@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> http://www.databasecreations.com/prod_pccharge_kit.htm Check out the above link. I presume the client wants to continue to swipe the card using a device attached to the PC. The data will then be fed into the form and to the merchant services processor. Card swiping results in a lower rate than merely keying in the data. HTH Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Phil Jewett [mailto:pjewett at bayplace.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing Dear List: I am looking for suggestions/products for adding credit card processing to an existing AXP order-processing application with about 10 users. Right now, the users get the credit card info over the phone and go to a credit card swiping machine to key in the info - what the client wants is to have a button on a form to do that. They get about 10-15 orders a day and typically ship the same or next day. In my own investigations I've learned something of the distinction between gateways and processors, and it appears that the latter would be sufficent for this application, but if using a gateway is a better approach I'd like to know that. Thanks in advance, Phil Jewett -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From starkey at wanadoo.nl Thu Aug 12 14:41:17 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:41:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB289@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040812193858.03B3D5398F@smtp4.wanadoo.nl> :-) I get both points and isn't this thread just about who wants to be right? I must agree with Drew that naming conventions wouldn't be necessary if we all knew our bussines a 100% BUT the fact is that prefixes do shorten the time to figure out what variable is used sometimes thus making it faster to bugfix for a lot of programmers. But ohwell, to be honest I do not care too much about naming conventions even if it makes code easier to read though commenting your code on the other hand should always be done in my humble opinion since variables I have usually figured out pretty fast but some colleague programming logic not!;-) Cheers for the almost being weekend hehe Eric Starkenburg -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens DWUTKA at marlow.com Verzonden: donderdag 12 augustus 2004 20:30 Aan: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Onderwerp: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions No, I am implying that I am flexible, and 'you' (the 'we' camp) are not. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions <<...should be reconsidered sometimes. Maybe you should reconsider. Again you imply that we are wrong. We are only pointing out what is considered a better way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _____ avast! Antivirus : Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0433-2, 10-08-2004 Getest op: 12-8-2004 21:41:16 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu Aug 12 14:46:44 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:46:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing Message-ID: Jim, I'm guessing that if the credit card info is taken over the phone, the customer would prefer not to send his card in for manual swiping;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Credit card processing http://www.databasecreations.com/prod_pccharge_kit.htm Check out the above link. I presume the client wants to continue to swipe the card using a device attached to the PC. The data will then be fed into the form and to the merchant services processor. Card swiping results in a lower rate than merely keying in the data. HTH Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Phil Jewett [mailto:pjewett at bayplace.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing Dear List: I am looking for suggestions/products for adding credit card processing to an existing AXP order-processing application with about 10 users. Right now, the users get the credit card info over the phone and go to a credit card swiping machine to key in the info - what the client wants is to have a button on a form to do that. They get about 10-15 orders a day and typically ship the same or next day. In my own investigations I've learned something of the distinction between gateways and processors, and it appears that the latter would be sufficent for this application, but if using a gateway is a better approach I'd like to know that. Thanks in advance, Phil Jewett -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 12 14:40:48 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:40:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box References: Message-ID: <411BC7C0.40401@shaw.ca> From the dim distant past of DOS 2.1 and QNX, I remember doing something like this to tag data onto the end of .exe and .com files. The character is known as CTL-Z octal 32, however I believe UNIX may use CTL-M. Neither is mandated. DOS used Ctrl-Z because CP/M did. CP/M used a Ctrl-Z to mark the end of a text file because the CP/M filesystem only kept track of how many 512-byte blocks were in a file, not exactly where the last byte of data was in that last block. So, many applications wrote a Ctrl-Z at the end of a text file to mark the end. This behavior was a a carry-over from DEC software probably RSX-11. You might want to use UltraEdit it recognizes various odd Unix file formats and converts to DOS text. http://www.ultraedit.com You can read the file as binary and do the the byte conversions for lf to crlf and eof characters as necessary. Mark A Matte wrote: > Hello All, > > I thought this situation had passed. > > First, Thanks for all the feedback...for the most part...the > conversion went fine. > > The problem is the file I am converting contains a field that is 'free > text' and is often copied/pasted from other applications. In the 3rd > record...in this field, there is a character that is interpreted as > EOF...so my code stops without an error...but only the first 2 records > are imported. Is there any way to test for this situation(2 EOFs or > when there is data past EOF)? > > Thanks, > > Mark A. Matte > > > > >> From: "Pedro Janssen" >> Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >> solving >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >> solving" >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box >> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:10:22 +0200 >> >> Hello Mark, >> >> i use VBA on Reflection FTP to send a unix file as an ascii file >> to an windows box. Then it is imported with no problems in access. >> If you want the code, let me know, i will send you this next week >> from my work. >> >> Pedro Janssen >> >> >> >> > >From: "Mark A Matte" >> > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >> > >solving >> > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> > >Subject: [AccessD] Import File From UNIX box >> > >Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:48:01 +0000 >> > > >> > >Hello All, >> > > >> > >I have an A97 db that imports a text file. The text file was on a >> Windows >> > >box...but now is generated and sent to a UNIX box. The UNIX >> version of >> > >this text file has a CR or LF character after each record...and >> access >> sees >> > >this as the end of the file. Any suggestions in using vba to convert >> this >> > >file(or those characters) back to a Windows format/ >> > > >> > >Thanks, >> > > >> > >Mark A. Matte >> > > >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >> > >Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to 'Dig Yourself Out of Debt' >> from MSN >> > >Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx >> > > >> > >-- >> > >_______________________________________________ >> > >AccessD mailing list >> > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DElam at jenkens.com Thu Aug 12 15:09:27 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:09:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA Access Obfuscation Contest Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C02485329@natexch.jenkens.com> You mean we can't just submit stuff we had to clean up, or (gasp) wrote ourselves when we were young and ignorant? Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA Access Obfuscation Contest The Naming Conventions thread has been most interesting and has prompted me to suggest an annual contest a la the classic DDJ C-Obfuscation contest. The point is to write a geruinely incomprehensible routine that does something useful. It would only make sense if we confined ourselves to say 5 candidate routines, Access-specific of course. Contributors could then submit a "solution" to any of the 5 problems. (A double-prize might be considered for code that does not even make it apparent which problem it is solving!) Step 1 is to gather the list of problems. I venture the following merely as a starting point. I haven't given any of them a lot of consideration, they are nothing more than something to shoot at, if you will. Somehow let's settle on 5 problems worth obfuscating. After that, obfuscation will be, heh heh, obvious. Herewith, 5 problems. Please feel free to shoot them down as insignificant or not worth writing etc. I would love to have the list come up with 5 genuinely interesting problems, on which to base the obfuscated solutions. None of them would be immediately useful in anyone's current project, but I think it would be fun to see the variants that contestants come up with. Five initial examples. Fire at will. Please come up with more interesting problems! 1. For every open form for every textbox make it read-only change the colours 2. Given tables Parent and Child, delete every third Parent record and all her children in the Child table. 3. Manufacture some test data in 4 tables: parent, child1, child2, and child2's child. The routine accepts the number of parents to create and the maximum number of child rows to create. Then it randomly adds kids (and grandkids) to tables 2, 3 and 4 for each parent, using the specified maximum. 4. Delete every file from every directory to which the user has access, while presenting warm and fuzzy messages. (Don't really delete them, just print a message suggesting that could have. Option: Tell them you HAVE deleted them, and offer recovery for $.05 a file. Bring up PayPal to complete the transaction. 5. Create an email to every person in your Outlook Contacts folder, announcing that your surgery was unsuccessful and you are now a refridgerator salesperson in Resolute Bay. Five stupid problems, I admit. Let's come up with five smart problems and then obfuscate their solutions! (At the least, each problem could become an issue of our newsletter, including the various solutions sent in by listers.) One obvious obfuscation technique is purposeful misuse of Hungarian. Dim strValue as Long ' the number of striations per meter of a given cave wall. Dim datLast as Currency ' how much you paid the hooker for your last "date". Dim booLevel as Byte ' scare factor in a horror movie focus group. Dim booLevel as Long ' WWE measurement as reported by microphones. Dim cboAvail as Boolean ' is this jazz musician available for work in a combo? But there are many more. Table names offer abundant opportunities to play. You get the idea, I hope.... Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Aug 12 15:31:59 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:31:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411BD3BF.70501@verizon.net> Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) wrote On 8/12/2004 12:46 PM: >Jim, > >I'm guessing that if the credit card info is taken over the phone, the >customer would prefer not to send his card in for manual swiping;) > >Mark > > > Yeah somehow I think that would deter sales, tho I think he said that the users GOTO a swiping machine and then proceed to KEY in the cc number. One other thing, the CC info is not being stored is it? I don't think Access could be trusted to store such imortant information. -- -Francisco From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 12 15:47:16 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:47:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified References: <030701c4807d$0b760dd0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <411BD754.7060808@shaw.ca> If you need more detail, this gives you last write,creation and last access date Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Declare Function FindFirstFile Lib "kernel32" Alias _ "FindFirstFileA" (ByVal lpFileName As String, lpFindFileData As _ WIN32_FIND_DATA) As Long Private Declare Function FileTimeToLocalFileTime Lib "kernel32" _ (lpFileTime As FILETIME, lpLocalFileTime As FILETIME) As Long Private Declare Function FileTimeToSystemTime Lib "kernel32" _ (lpFileTime As FILETIME, lpSystemTime As SYSTEMTIME) As Long 'get the file's datetime stamp Private Declare Function GetFileTime Lib "kernel32" _ (ByVal hFile As Long, lpCreationTime As FILETIME, _ lpLastAccessTime As FILETIME, _ lpLastWriteTime As FILETIME) As Long Const MAX_PATH = 260 Private Type FILETIME dwLowDateTime As Long dwHighDateTime As Long End Type Private Type WIN32_FIND_DATA dwFileAttributes As Long ftCreationTime As FILETIME ftLastAccessTime As FILETIME ftLastWriteTime As FILETIME nFileSizeHigh As Long nFileSizeLow As Long dwReserved0 As Long dwReserved1 As Long cFileName As String * MAX_PATH cAlternate As String * 14 End Type Private Type SYSTEMTIME wYear As Integer wMonth As Integer wDayOfWeek As Integer wDay As Integer wHour As Integer wMinute As Integer wSecond As Integer wMilliseconds As Integer End Type 'used to store timestamps from GetFileTime API call Public Type FileTimeStamps ftCreate As Date ftAccess As Date ftModify As Date End Type Sub test() Dim FileData As WIN32_FIND_DATA Dim FT As FILETIME Dim ST As SYSTEMTIME Dim lretval As Long FileData.cFileName = Space$(MAX_PATH) lretval = FindFirstFile("C:\Access files\Snapscreenform.mdb", FileData) Debug.Print FileData.cFileName Debug.Print ConvertGetFileTime(FileData.ftCreationTime) Debug.Print ConvertGetFileTime(FileData.ftLastAccessTime) Debug.Print ConvertGetFileTime(FileData.ftLastWriteTime) Debug.Print FileDateTime("C:\Access files\Snapscreenform.mdb") Debug.Print FileData.ftCreationTime.dwHighDateTime & _ FileData.ftCreationTime.dwLowDateTime End Sub Private Function ConvertGetFileTime(FT As FILETIME) As Date 'convert the low and high times to dates Dim lngWFD As Long Dim ST As SYSTEMTIME Dim LOCTime As FILETIME 'convert to your time, not GMT FileTimeToLocalFileTime FT, LOCTime FileTimeToSystemTime LOCTime, ST ConvertGetFileTime = _ DateSerial(ST.wYear, ST.wMonth, ST.wDay) + _ TimeSerial(ST.wHour, ST.wMinute, ST.wSecond) End Function Arthur Fuller wrote: >That will work where the scripting runtime is installed, but IME almost >every company forbids its installation because it is so potentially >dangerous. > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >paul.hartland at fsmail.net >Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:15 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Modified > > >Rocky, >If you set a reference to Microsoft Scripting Runtime then add the >following code: Dim fsys As New FileSystemObject Dim dtProductsCSV As >Date Dim fProductsCSV As Object > >Set fProductsCSV = fsys.GetFile(FilePath & FileName) dtProductsCSV = >fProductsCSV.DateLastModified > > > > > > >Message date : Aug 12 2004, 01:53 AM >>From : "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >To : AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Copy to : >Subject : [AccessD] Date Modified >Dear List: > >Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? > >TIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Aug 12 16:07:24 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:07:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26B@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB26B@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <411BDC0C.3030804@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I had >a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the client >asked. But when developing other software, which did not have such client >restraints, then I would use the method that I work the fastest in, and find >the most convenient to use. That saves my clients time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in applying >one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you don't have to >change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Aug 12 16:15:34 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:15:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE77@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> LOL. I think you are right. I misread the original post. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Credit card processing Jim, I'm guessing that if the credit card info is taken over the phone, the customer would prefer not to send his card in for manual swiping;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Credit card processing http://www.databasecreations.com/prod_pccharge_kit.htm Check out the above link. I presume the client wants to continue to swipe the card using a device attached to the PC. The data will then be fed into the form and to the merchant services processor. Card swiping results in a lower rate than merely keying in the data. HTH Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Phil Jewett [mailto:pjewett at bayplace.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing Dear List: I am looking for suggestions/products for adding credit card processing to an existing AXP order-processing application with about 10 users. Right now, the users get the credit card info over the phone and go to a credit card swiping machine to key in the info - what the client wants is to have a button on a form to do that. They get about 10-15 orders a day and typically ship the same or next day. In my own investigations I've learned something of the distinction between gateways and processors, and it appears that the latter would be sufficent for this application, but if using a gateway is a better approach I'd like to know that. Thanks in advance, Phil Jewett -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Aug 12 16:38:33 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:38:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Does Anyone Have An Idea? In-Reply-To: <411BDC0C.3030804@verizon.net> Message-ID: A2K This is driving my crazy. When ever I have *any* timer running inside this program it can on occasion cause the program to completely shut down when executing a complicated routine. When I say completely I mean with no error, no message box, it even bypasses the close event on my hidden form to confirm program closer. This only happens on the complicated routines. The interesting thing here is that no information is lost, and all assigned tasks are completed. I have sifted through every single line of code, in every conceivable way and I'm simply at a loss. Any suggestions?? Robert Gracie From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Aug 12 16:51:07 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:51:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <16405003.1092345293515.JavaMail.root@sniper7.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000001c480b6$79028cf0$de1811d8@danwaters> I've tried so hard to stay out of this, but . . . This is a function I'm using in a process module call Six Sigma Projects (SSP). It's abbreviated SSP because it is explicitly titled this way. I also used the abbreviation CBA for Cost Benefit Analysis because the fields are labeled this way. There are no other abbreviations! Can everyone read this????? Private Function ReadyMeasure() As Boolean 'on error GoTo EH Dim blnMeasurePlan As Boolean Dim blnMeasureResults As Boolean ReadyMeasure = True If (IsNull(memCBACurrent) Or memCBACurrent = "") And IsNull(txtFileTitleCBACurrent) Then butAttachFileCBACurrent.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The CBA Current information is missing." & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "Attach a file or fill in the CBA Current field.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Plan") Then blnMeasurePlan = True Else blnMeasurePlan = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasurePlan) Or memMeasurePlan = "") And blnMeasurePlan = False Then memMeasurePlan.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Plan field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Plan file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Results") = True Then blnMeasureResults = True Else blnMeasureResults = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasureData) Or memMeasureData = "") And blnMeasureResults = False Then memMeasureData.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Results field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Results file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish) Then txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Analyze Planned Finish Date field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboBlackBeltMeasure) Then cboBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltSetup) Then cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Master Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboFinanceMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboFinanceSetup) Then cboFinanceMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Finance field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboProcessOwnerMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboProcessOwnerSetup) Then cboProcessOwnerMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Process Owner field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboChampionMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboChampionSetup) Then cboChampionMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Champion field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If Exit Function EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors(txtSSPID, Err.Number, Err.Description, "frmSSPMain", "ReadyMeasure") End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I had >a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the client >asked. But when developing other software, which did not have such client >restraints, then I would use the method that I work the fastest in, and find >the most convenient to use. That saves my clients time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in applying >one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you don't have to >change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 12 17:47:43 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:47:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB282@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <411C802F.26679.1F88E42@lexacorp.com.pg> On 12 Aug 2004 at 10:58, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Actually, when I was a kid, I did program in Basic.....good ol' DOS. No > naming convention at all, no classes, just ABC, and XYZ. > Surely A$, A% etc is a naming convention just as much as strA, intA -- Stuart From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 12 17:48:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:48:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Does Anyone Have An Idea? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c480be$728b9b70$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Interesting you should bring this up. I too have an app "just shutting down" and I do have a timer going. How did you localize it to the timer? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Does Anyone Have An Idea? A2K This is driving my crazy. When ever I have *any* timer running inside this program it can on occasion cause the program to completely shut down when executing a complicated routine. When I say completely I mean with no error, no message box, it even bypasses the close event on my hidden form to confirm program closer. This only happens on the complicated routines. The interesting thing here is that no information is lost, and all assigned tasks are completed. I have sifted through every single line of code, in every conceivable way and I'm simply at a loss. Any suggestions?? Robert Gracie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 12 17:51:16 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:51:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <411BDC0C.3030804@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000901c480be$e3d4eb60$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> May I suggest, "lost cause"? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find the most convenient to use. That saves my clients >time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 12 17:53:41 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:53:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing References: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE77@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <411BF4F5.5090602@shaw.ca> You could use something like PayFlow Link from Verisign It is just an https post or soap to wsdl but it actually processses the card transaction however I believe you can use for verification, but it is $200 setup and $20 a month thereafter There are a lot of others out there, your merchant bank should be able to suggest some. If you just want to use a web service to check for a valid number and card type This one is free http://www.cdyne.com/web-services.aspx?swf=ws_04f This just checks that the check digit is valid for card type https://secure.cdyne.com/creditcardverify/luhnchecker.asmx Hale, Jim wrote: >LOL. I think you are right. I misread the original post. >Jim Hale > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:47 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Credit card processing > > >Jim, > >I'm guessing that if the credit card info is taken over the phone, the >customer would prefer not to send his card in for manual swiping;) > >Mark > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:04 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Credit card processing > > >http://www.databasecreations.com/prod_pccharge_kit.htm > >Check out the above link. I presume the client wants to continue to swipe >the card using a device attached to the PC. The data will then be fed >into the form and to the merchant services processor. Card swiping results >in a lower rate than merely keying in the data. HTH >Jim Hale > >-----Original Message----- >From: Phil Jewett [mailto:pjewett at bayplace.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:16 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Credit card processing > > >Dear List: >I am looking for suggestions/products for adding credit card processing >to an existing AXP order-processing application with about 10 users. >Right now, the users get the credit card info over the phone and go to a >credit card swiping machine to key in the info - what the client wants >is to have a button on a form to do that. They get about 10-15 orders a >day and typically ship the same or next day. In my own investigations >I've learned something of the distinction between gateways and >processors, and it appears that the latter would be sufficent for this >application, but if using a gateway is a better approach I'd like to >know that. > >Thanks in advance, > >Phil Jewett > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Aug 12 19:17:15 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:17:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <000901c480be$e3d4eb60$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: John, I have been dealing with this for over 4 months, and through some serious testing I discovered if I shut down the timer, the problem went away, never to occur again. So that lead me to think that there was something failing or too complex about the code running in the timer. So I ran the timer to "count" and the problem would reoccur. Extraordinarily frustrating!!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions May I suggest, "lost cause"? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find the most convenient to use. That saves my clients >time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 12 20:52:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:52:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c480d8$2d935ca0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> The timer just counts and exits? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, I have been dealing with this for over 4 months, and through some serious testing I discovered if I shut down the timer, the problem went away, never to occur again. So that lead me to think that there was something failing or too complex about the code running in the timer. So I ran the timer to "count" and the problem would reoccur. Extraordinarily frustrating!!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions May I suggest, "lost cause"? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find the most convenient to use. That saves my clients >time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 12 20:59:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:59:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c480d9$22838640$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Well this is good to know because I can get rid of the timer if needed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, I have been dealing with this for over 4 months, and through some serious testing I discovered if I shut down the timer, the problem went away, never to occur again. So that lead me to think that there was something failing or too complex about the code running in the timer. So I ran the timer to "count" and the problem would reoccur. Extraordinarily frustrating!!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions May I suggest, "lost cause"? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find the most convenient to use. That saves my clients >time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri Aug 13 00:39:15 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:39:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified References: <411B5B36.23066.214F0701@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <025901c480f7$df006900$6601a8c0@HAL9002> That's it! Much obliged. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Modified > On 11 Aug 2004 at 17:51, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > > Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? > > > > dteLastModified = FileDateTime(myFilename) > > > -- > Stuart > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri Aug 13 00:42:30 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:42:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified References: <030701c4807d$0b760dd0$6601a8c0@rock> <411BD754.7060808@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <025f01c480f8$52faa820$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Marty: Thanks. Very useful. I back up my work compulsively and now I've got three places to copy it - secondary machine, flash drive, and laptop. So I whipped up a little app to do this automatically. But I find that the backup which give the dates modified of both the old and the new to be very useful. Stops me from backing up the wrong way. So I was trying to simulate that. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Modified > If you need more detail, this gives you last write,creation and last > access date > > Option Compare Database > Option Explicit > > Private Declare Function FindFirstFile Lib "kernel32" Alias _ > "FindFirstFileA" (ByVal lpFileName As String, lpFindFileData As _ > WIN32_FIND_DATA) As Long > Private Declare Function FileTimeToLocalFileTime Lib "kernel32" _ > (lpFileTime As FILETIME, lpLocalFileTime As FILETIME) As Long > Private Declare Function FileTimeToSystemTime Lib "kernel32" _ > (lpFileTime As FILETIME, lpSystemTime As SYSTEMTIME) As Long > 'get the file's datetime stamp > Private Declare Function GetFileTime Lib "kernel32" _ > (ByVal hFile As Long, lpCreationTime As FILETIME, _ > lpLastAccessTime As FILETIME, _ > lpLastWriteTime As FILETIME) As Long > > > Const MAX_PATH = 260 > Private Type FILETIME > dwLowDateTime As Long > dwHighDateTime As Long > End Type > Private Type WIN32_FIND_DATA > dwFileAttributes As Long > ftCreationTime As FILETIME > ftLastAccessTime As FILETIME > ftLastWriteTime As FILETIME > nFileSizeHigh As Long > nFileSizeLow As Long > dwReserved0 As Long > dwReserved1 As Long > cFileName As String * MAX_PATH > cAlternate As String * 14 > End Type > Private Type SYSTEMTIME > wYear As Integer > wMonth As Integer > wDayOfWeek As Integer > wDay As Integer > wHour As Integer > wMinute As Integer > wSecond As Integer > wMilliseconds As Integer > End Type > 'used to store timestamps from GetFileTime API call > Public Type FileTimeStamps > ftCreate As Date > ftAccess As Date > ftModify As Date > End Type > > > > Sub test() > Dim FileData As WIN32_FIND_DATA > Dim FT As FILETIME > Dim ST As SYSTEMTIME > Dim lretval As Long > FileData.cFileName = Space$(MAX_PATH) > lretval = FindFirstFile("C:\Access files\Snapscreenform.mdb", FileData) > Debug.Print FileData.cFileName > > Debug.Print ConvertGetFileTime(FileData.ftCreationTime) > Debug.Print ConvertGetFileTime(FileData.ftLastAccessTime) > Debug.Print ConvertGetFileTime(FileData.ftLastWriteTime) > Debug.Print FileDateTime("C:\Access files\Snapscreenform.mdb") > > Debug.Print FileData.ftCreationTime.dwHighDateTime & _ > FileData.ftCreationTime.dwLowDateTime > End Sub > Private Function ConvertGetFileTime(FT As FILETIME) As Date > 'convert the low and high times to dates > Dim lngWFD As Long > Dim ST As SYSTEMTIME > Dim LOCTime As FILETIME > > 'convert to your time, not GMT > FileTimeToLocalFileTime FT, LOCTime > FileTimeToSystemTime LOCTime, ST > > ConvertGetFileTime = _ > DateSerial(ST.wYear, ST.wMonth, ST.wDay) + _ > TimeSerial(ST.wHour, ST.wMinute, ST.wSecond) > > End Function > > Arthur Fuller wrote: > > >That will work where the scripting runtime is installed, but IME almost > >every company forbids its installation because it is so potentially > >dangerous. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > >paul.hartland at fsmail.net > >Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:15 AM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date Modified > > > > > >Rocky, > >If you set a reference to Microsoft Scripting Runtime then add the > >following code: Dim fsys As New FileSystemObject Dim dtProductsCSV As > >Date Dim fProductsCSV As Object > > > >Set fProductsCSV = fsys.GetFile(FilePath & FileName) dtProductsCSV = > >fProductsCSV.DateLastModified > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Message date : Aug 12 2004, 01:53 AM > >>From : "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > >To : AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >Copy to : > >Subject : [AccessD] Date Modified > >Dear List: > > > >Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? > > > >TIA > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Fri Aug 13 03:07:45 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:07:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Message-ID: Thanks, John. I'm dizzy from reading it through just once. That sounds an enormous assignment - but what a sense of success when you reach(ed) the other end. I hope the client was graeful. Cheers and thanks for both ideas. paul -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Fri Aug 13 03:23:12 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:23:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: Many many thanks for your help Arthur Fuller, Colby, John, Gustav, Jim Hewson, Lonnie Johnson, Mitsules, Mark S. and Dean Ellis Much obliged, gentlemen. Cheers paul From forefront at ig.com.br Thu Aug 12 16:24:42 2004 From: forefront at ig.com.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Forefront_em_Inform=E1tica_e_Consultoria_Ltda=2E=22?=) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:24:42 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] Date Modified In-Reply-To: <32458262.1092298481507.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> References: <32458262.1092298481507.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040812182300.027afeb0@pop3.ig.com.br> At 05:14 12/08/2004, you wrote: >Rocky, >If you set a reference to Microsoft Scripting Runtime then add the >following code: >Dim fsys As New FileSystemObject >Dim dtProductsCSV As Date >Dim fProductsCSV As Object > >Set fProductsCSV = fsys.GetFile(FilePath & FileName) >dtProductsCSV = fProductsCSV.DateLastModified > > >Message date : Aug 12 2004, 01:53 AM > >From : "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >To : AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Copy to : >Subject : [AccessD] Date Modified >Dear List: > >Is there a method to retrieve the Date Modified from a file? > >TIA > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > >-- You may also try something like this... Function AccBDInfo(filespec) On Error GoTo Err_AccBDInfo Dim fso, f, s Set fso = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") Set f = fso.GetFile(filespec) s = f.Path & vbCrLf s = s & "Created: " & f.DateCreated & vbCrLf s = s & "Last Accessed: " & f.DateLastAccessed & vbCrLf s = s & "Last Modified: " & f.DateLastModified 'MsgBox Format(f.DateCreated, "Short Date") AccBDInfo = s Set fso = Nothing Set f = Nothing Exit_AccBDInfo: Exit Function Err_AccBDInfo: MsgBox "Ocorreu o erro " & Err.Number & "." & vbCrLf & Err.Description Resume Exit_AccBDInfo End Function HTH, ****************************************************** * Forefront em Inform?tica e Consultoria Ltda. * * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * Phone Direct: 55-21-9169-1596 * * mailto:forefront at ig.com.br * ******************************************************* From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Aug 13 03:28:32 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:28:32 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Copying Files - Brains In Friday Mode Message-ID: <31904176.1092385712955.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> To all, I am writing an application that used data from Psion handhelds, when the data is exported from the Psion I have the following four files in C:\Program Files\BQAudit\ D2114001.DAT D2114001.LOG L2114001.DAT T2114001.LOG The 001 in the filenames will change almost all the time, so I tried using the FileCopy statement to copy each file into C:\Program Files\BQAudit\BackupFiles\ FileCopy ScannedFilePath & "D2114???.dat", strBackupPath & "D2114???_" & strDateTime & ".dat" But I get the error message bad file name or number ..Can?t for the life of me see how to do this automatically .I know it?s so simple but brain has gone into Friday mode VERY early. Thanks in advance for any help on this Paul Hartland -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 13 03:50:28 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:50:28 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Copying Files - Brains In Friday Mode In-Reply-To: <31904176.1092385712955.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> References: <31904176.1092385712955.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Message-ID: <576856619.20040813105028@cactus.dk> Hi Paul You can't do that. Use Dir to loop through the filenames and, for each of these, copy the file to the new filename. /gustav > I am writing an application that used data from Psion handhelds, when the data is exported from the Psion I have the following four files in C:\Program Files\BQAudit\ > D2114001.DAT > D2114001.LOG > L2114001.DAT > T2114001.LOG > The 001 in the filenames will change almost all the time, so I tried using the FileCopy statement to copy each file into C:\Program Files\BQAudit\BackupFiles\ > FileCopy ScannedFilePath & "D2114???.dat", strBackupPath & "D2114???_" & strDateTime & ".dat" > But I get the error message bad file name or number ..Can?t for the life of me see how to do this automatically .I know it?s so simple but brain has gone into Friday mode VERY early. > Thanks in advance for any help on this > Paul Hartland From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Fri Aug 13 05:23:58 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:23:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: Thanks, Gustav, it works well. The slight nuisance is that the background colour carries on to the following records. Unless I use LostFocus, which is what I have done. All the best paul From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Fri Aug 13 05:42:06 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:42:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED202@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Dan With a single abbreviation a comment to explain what it stands for is going to be workable - but it sounds as though the meaning of this abbreviation would be clear to anyone working on the app. Unfortunately I've spent too much time web gaming and to me CBA will always stand for Can't Be Arsed... lol Roz -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 22:51 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I've tried so hard to stay out of this, but . . . This is a function I'm using in a process module call Six Sigma Projects (SSP). It's abbreviated SSP because it is explicitly titled this way. I also used the abbreviation CBA for Cost Benefit Analysis because the fields are labeled this way. There are no other abbreviations! Can everyone read this????? Private Function ReadyMeasure() As Boolean 'on error GoTo EH Dim blnMeasurePlan As Boolean Dim blnMeasureResults As Boolean ReadyMeasure = True If (IsNull(memCBACurrent) Or memCBACurrent = "") And IsNull(txtFileTitleCBACurrent) Then butAttachFileCBACurrent.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The CBA Current information is missing." & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "Attach a file or fill in the CBA Current field.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Plan") Then blnMeasurePlan = True Else blnMeasurePlan = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasurePlan) Or memMeasurePlan = "") And blnMeasurePlan = False Then memMeasurePlan.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Plan field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Plan file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Results") = True Then blnMeasureResults = True Else blnMeasureResults = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasureData) Or memMeasureData = "") And blnMeasureResults = False Then memMeasureData.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Results field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Results file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish) Then txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Analyze Planned Finish Date field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboBlackBeltMeasure) Then cboBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltSetup) Then cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Master Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboFinanceMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboFinanceSetup) Then cboFinanceMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Finance field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboProcessOwnerMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboProcessOwnerSetup) Then cboProcessOwnerMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Process Owner field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboChampionMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboChampionSetup) Then cboChampionMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Champion field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If Exit Function EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors(txtSSPID, Err.Number, Err.Description, "frmSSPMain", "ReadyMeasure") End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find >the most convenient to use. That saves my clients time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 13 06:32:26 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:32:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c48129$38e2dad0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Paul, In fact the whole thing took two days (so far). One to analyze the field map table and figure out how I was going to attack this, and one to write the two classes and get them playing together. The nice part is that there is another completely different export that has to occur - different field map table, different data from our end. However all I have to do is build my query that pulls the data, place the field names from my query into the column in that field map table for my field names, in the matching records, then call exactly the same program. Tell it how long the string should be this time and the name of the new field map table and data query, and the name / location to place the file. The exact same code works exactly the same for the next export. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 4:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Thanks, John. I'm dizzy from reading it through just once. That sounds an enormous assignment - but what a sense of success when you reach(ed) the other end. I hope the client was graeful. Cheers and thanks for both ideas. paul -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Fri Aug 13 07:43:10 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:43:10 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Message-ID: Very impressive project. What an amazing fellow your CV shows, what an amazing life. I looked for the recommended file, but the navigation links were not responding.I'll try again after the weekend. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 13 August 2004 12:32 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Paul, In fact the whole thing took two days (so far). One to analyze the field map table and figure out how I was going to attack this, and one to write the two classes and get them playing together. The nice part is that there is another completely different export that has to occur - different field map table, different data from our end. However all I have to do is build my query that pulls the data, place the field names from my query into the column in that field map table for my field names, in the matching records, then call exactly the same program. Tell it how long the string should be this time and the name of the new field map table and data query, and the name / location to place the file. The exact same code works exactly the same for the next export. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 4:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Thanks, John. I'm dizzy from reading it through just once. That sounds an enormous assignment - but what a sense of success when you reach(ed) the other end. I hope the client was graeful. Cheers and thanks for both ideas. paul -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri Aug 13 08:00:39 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:00:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <26459506.1092393698386.JavaMail.root@sniper3.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000b01c48135$88bf6170$de1811d8@danwaters> OK Roz, Even though it's not abbreviated, what does, "Can't be Arsed" mean? If you have to black out the words in your answer, I'll understand. ;-) Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 5:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dan With a single abbreviation a comment to explain what it stands for is going to be workable - but it sounds as though the meaning of this abbreviation would be clear to anyone working on the app. Unfortunately I've spent too much time web gaming and to me CBA will always stand for Can't Be Arsed... lol Roz -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 22:51 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I've tried so hard to stay out of this, but . . . This is a function I'm using in a process module call Six Sigma Projects (SSP). It's abbreviated SSP because it is explicitly titled this way. I also used the abbreviation CBA for Cost Benefit Analysis because the fields are labeled this way. There are no other abbreviations! Can everyone read this????? Private Function ReadyMeasure() As Boolean 'on error GoTo EH Dim blnMeasurePlan As Boolean Dim blnMeasureResults As Boolean ReadyMeasure = True If (IsNull(memCBACurrent) Or memCBACurrent = "") And IsNull(txtFileTitleCBACurrent) Then butAttachFileCBACurrent.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The CBA Current information is missing." & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "Attach a file or fill in the CBA Current field.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Plan") Then blnMeasurePlan = True Else blnMeasurePlan = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasurePlan) Or memMeasurePlan = "") And blnMeasurePlan = False Then memMeasurePlan.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Plan field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Plan file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Results") = True Then blnMeasureResults = True Else blnMeasureResults = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasureData) Or memMeasureData = "") And blnMeasureResults = False Then memMeasureData.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Results field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Results file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish) Then txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Analyze Planned Finish Date field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboBlackBeltMeasure) Then cboBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltSetup) Then cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Master Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboFinanceMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboFinanceSetup) Then cboFinanceMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Finance field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboProcessOwnerMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboProcessOwnerSetup) Then cboProcessOwnerMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Process Owner field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboChampionMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboChampionSetup) Then cboChampionMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Champion field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If Exit Function EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors(txtSSPID, Err.Number, Err.Description, "frmSSPMain", "ReadyMeasure") End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find >the most convenient to use. That saves my clients time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Fri Aug 13 08:13:02 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:13:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318805CED20C@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Uh... it's a bit OT, but since you ask, and it is Friday, it means "can't be bothered" - I didn't realise it was UK specific but I suppose it must be. The context would be something like "I cba to play atm... going afk for 10" Roz -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: 13 August 2004 14:01 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions OK Roz, Even though it's not abbreviated, what does, "Can't be Arsed" mean? If you have to black out the words in your answer, I'll understand. ;-) Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 5:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dan With a single abbreviation a comment to explain what it stands for is going to be workable - but it sounds as though the meaning of this abbreviation would be clear to anyone working on the app. Unfortunately I've spent too much time web gaming and to me CBA will always stand for Can't Be Arsed... lol Roz -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 22:51 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I've tried so hard to stay out of this, but . . . This is a function I'm using in a process module call Six Sigma Projects (SSP). It's abbreviated SSP because it is explicitly titled this way. I also used the abbreviation CBA for Cost Benefit Analysis because the fields are labeled this way. There are no other abbreviations! Can everyone read this????? Private Function ReadyMeasure() As Boolean 'on error GoTo EH Dim blnMeasurePlan As Boolean Dim blnMeasureResults As Boolean ReadyMeasure = True If (IsNull(memCBACurrent) Or memCBACurrent = "") And IsNull(txtFileTitleCBACurrent) Then butAttachFileCBACurrent.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The CBA Current information is missing." & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "Attach a file or fill in the CBA Current field.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Plan") Then blnMeasurePlan = True Else blnMeasurePlan = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasurePlan) Or memMeasurePlan = "") And blnMeasurePlan = False Then memMeasurePlan.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Plan field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Plan file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If SSPFileExists("Measure Results") = True Then blnMeasureResults = True Else blnMeasureResults = False End If If (IsNull(memMeasureData) Or memMeasureData = "") And blnMeasureResults = False Then memMeasureData.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Measure Results field" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "or a Measure Results file is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish) Then txtDateAnalyzePlannedFinish.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Analyze Planned Finish Date field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboBlackBeltMeasure) Then cboBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboMasterBlackBeltSetup) Then cboMasterBlackBeltMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Master Black Belt field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboFinanceMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboFinanceSetup) Then cboFinanceMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Finance field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboProcessOwnerMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboProcessOwnerSetup) Then cboProcessOwnerMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Process Owner field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If If IsNull(cboChampionMeasure) And Not IsNull(cboChampionSetup) Then cboChampionMeasure.SetFocus FormattedMsgBox GstgNotReady, "The Champion field is required.@ @", vbOKOnly, "Missing Information" ReadyMeasure = False Exit Function End If Exit Function EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors(txtSSPID, Err.Number, Err.Description, "frmSSPMain", "ReadyMeasure") End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find >the most convenient to use. That saves my clients time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. 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From Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil Fri Aug 13 08:43:34 2004 From: Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil (Brock, Christian T, HRC-Alexandria) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:43:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <232419D8B637CB478F9B3EEA9FE37BCF0243DD17@ahrc01b1e0151.hoffman.army.mil> That is a canard. A myth told to children. Every educated person since the Ancient Greeks knew the world was round. Christian Brock -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:48 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Fri Aug 13 09:03:04 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:03:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDBC@DISABILITYINS01> >What an amazing fellow your CV shows, what an amazing life. To quote Steve Martin - The Jerk: "I was born a poor black child" 8-) >I looked for the recommended file, but the navigation links were not responding. Are you talking about the class lectures? I just tried it and could reach them. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 8:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Very impressive project. What an amazing fellow your CV shows, what an amazing life. I looked for the recommended file, but the navigation links were not responding.I'll try again after the weekend. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 13 August 2004 12:32 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Paul, In fact the whole thing took two days (so far). One to analyze the field map table and figure out how I was going to attack this, and one to write the two classes and get them playing together. The nice part is that there is another completely different export that has to occur - different field map table, different data from our end. However all I have to do is build my query that pulls the data, place the field names from my query into the column in that field map table for my field names, in the matching records, then call exactly the same program. Tell it how long the string should be this time and the name of the new field map table and data query, and the name / location to place the file. The exact same code works exactly the same for the next export. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 4:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] RE: Using classes - was Instant If Then Else Thanks, John. I'm dizzy from reading it through just once. That sounds an enormous assignment - but what a sense of success when you reach(ed) the other end. I hope the client was graeful. Cheers and thanks for both ideas. paul -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 10:54:20 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:54:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: LOL! Ah, yes. That famous Drew argument: "I win because you're *wrong*"! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions No, I am implying that I am flexible, and 'you' (the 'we' camp) are not. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions <<...should be reconsidered sometimes. Maybe you should reconsider. Again you imply that we are wrong. We are only pointing out what is considered a better way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 10:59:19 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:59:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Easy one. objInventoryItem = 5 is obivously wrong but ii = 5 is NOT obviously wrong. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:01 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 10:59:47 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:59:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: And LOTS of gotos. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:58 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, when I was a kid, I did program in Basic.....good ol' DOS. No naming convention at all, no classes, just ABC, and XYZ. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just saying that you probably were not programming when no one used naming conventions. Not a dig at your experience/ability at all. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions About 5 years (give or take a bit, depending on what system we are talking about). Just out of curiousity, what does this prove? When someone with this vast programming experience has a networking issue, shouldn't they have all that experience working with computers, to just figure out what is wrong? Should I ask them how long they have been using computers for? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWh oIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariable Repr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 11:03:11 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:03:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: Thanks, Stuart. I'll give it a try. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Charlotte, Just had a problem with another program and came across a freeware utility that may help you track down what is happening with your app. Process Explorer for SysInternals http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/procexp.shtml Tells you everything you want to know about what resources etc a process is using. -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 11:05:50 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:05:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Message-ID: LOL ... Like the current "Reserved Error" message from Microsoft, you mean? I liked the way MS Multiplan handled it. When it couldn't match an error with a message, it just gave you the last error in the list, whether it applied or not! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:11 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 I must be on a nostalgia kick today. The first compiler I learned to use was from Digital Research and was called CB-80. It was a BASIC compiler. I still remember my favourite error message: "An error has been detected for which there is no error message." Stuff like that makes MS-Help look eloquent. See? It's all a question of context. I remember some C/PM programs that actually expected their users to be able to enter Hex numbers! One night long ago, I had a dream in which I FINALLY figured out how to translate decimal into hex and vice-versa, in my head. My then-wife told me about it next morning. Apparently, I awoke suddenly, sat bolt upright and said, "Yes! 16 times 4 is 64! Now I get it!" and promptly fell back asleep. She left me shortly thereafter. A. P.S. This has happened more than once. I have a dream that solves some programming problem, and soon afterwards my significant woman departs :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:14 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] AXP and Error 3310 Of course it doesn't....that would make life too easy! LOL. I love getting error messages that are so vague they let to spin your wheels for a few days before you accidentally trip over the solution! Gotta love it! Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 11:12:35 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:12:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: That's exactly the point, Drew. If FirstName is a class, then that statement is invalid. But you can't tell by looking at it, now can you? Are you suggesting that you look at the way something is used in code to determine what kind of thing it is? You DO turn on Option Explicit don't you?? Have you have *NEVER* typed something like Set Whatever = 5 or Frm = Forms!MyForm Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 11:16:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:16:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Fri Aug 13 11:26:37 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:26:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDBE@DISABILITYINS01> My first real dive into the programming waters: I was a Technician fixing boards for Megatek corp in San Diego. My test station had a Data General Nova mini computer with about 32kb of memory. I found the old star trek program (very crude, drew "maps" on a terminal with stars and ships and stuff) on the hard disk, written in some variant of Basic. The basic interpreter took about 20kbytes. The program took 16 kbytes. I only had 32 kbytes so the program wouldn't run. I could however view it in an editor so I printed the program out on a TTY roll of paper (the old yellow stuff for all you old farts) and started trying to figure out how to get it to fit in the available memory. This was the early 80s (82 perhaps?) and this version of basic didn't even have functions or subs (or maybe it did and the author just didn't use them?). Anyway, I started drawing lines from the goto statement to the line where the program execution resumed (the target line). That exercise demonstrated where the term "spaghetti code" came from. The result looked pretty much like a drawing of a sheet of spaghetti. I never did get it working, but I did replace it with a similar game written from scratch using Turbo Pascal which I learned shortly thereafter. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions And LOTS of gotos. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:58 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, when I was a kid, I did program in Basic.....good ol' DOS. No naming convention at all, no classes, just ABC, and XYZ. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just saying that you probably were not programming when no one used naming conventions. Not a dig at your experience/ability at all. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions About 5 years (give or take a bit, depending on what system we are talking about). Just out of curiousity, what does this prove? When someone with this vast programming experience has a networking issue, shouldn't they have all that experience working with computers, to just figure out what is wrong? Should I ask them how long they have been using computers for? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWh oIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariable Repr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Fri Aug 13 11:28:00 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:28:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDBF@DISABILITYINS01> LOL. Since it OBVIOUSLY wasn't aimed at ME I was just going to let it slide. ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 11:35:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:35:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB295@main2.marlow.com> Francisco, my point is that both methods are valid. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I had >a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the client >asked. But when developing other software, which did not have such client >restraints, then I would use the method that I work the fastest in, and find >the most convenient to use. That saves my clients time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in applying >one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you don't have to >change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 11:41:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:41:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB296@main2.marlow.com> And GoSubs....oh, the GoSub! (Reminiscing) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions And LOTS of gotos. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:58 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, when I was a kid, I did program in Basic.....good ol' DOS. No naming convention at all, no classes, just ABC, and XYZ. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just saying that you probably were not programming when no one used naming conventions. Not a dig at your experience/ability at all. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions About 5 years (give or take a bit, depending on what system we are talking about). Just out of curiousity, what does this prove? When someone with this vast programming experience has a networking issue, shouldn't they have all that experience working with computers, to just figure out what is wrong? Should I ask them how long they have been using computers for? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWh oIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariable Repr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 11:46:51 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:46:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB297@main2.marlow.com> ROTFLMAO! Nope, 'my' argument is that I think that neither way is wrong. All methods are valid if consistent. JC keeps saying this way or that way is wrong. So, the argument is that JC thinks his way or the high way, (or at least you're using horribly icky bad practices.....), and I think you can use any naming convention you want (as long as the customer hasn't specified differently). This, in fact, is the same argument I make in most of these debates: Bound/Unbound (Neither is right or wrong, all depends on what you need to do). LookUpField (using or not using it is fine) Surrogate/Natural key (never really paid much attention to these threads. I personally use surrogate keys, but if you want to use naturals....so be it.) Being flexible is far easier to defend then being rigidly against something. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 10:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions LOL! Ah, yes. That famous Drew argument: "I win because you're *wrong*"! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions No, I am implying that I am flexible, and 'you' (the 'we' camp) are not. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions <<...should be reconsidered sometimes. Maybe you should reconsider. Again you imply that we are wrong. We are only pointing out what is considered a better way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >either way makes sense to me. And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. JWC -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Fri Aug 13 11:47:43 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:47:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC0@DISABILITYINS01> LOL. I'm reading a book called 123 magic to teach parents a method of establishing discipline for small children (ages 2 to 12 - my 3+ year old in this case). The theory behind the book is that the child will do ANYTHING to get a reaction of any kind, for the simple reason that it gives them a feeling of power when they are really pretty much powerless. Any time you argue with the child, the argument can not be won simply because the POINT of the argument is not winning or losing, being right or being wrong, learning something new etc. but just that the argument itself gives a feeling of power. They are causing something to happen. An interesting perspective. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions That's exactly the point, Drew. If FirstName is a class, then that statement is invalid. But you can't tell by looking at it, now can you? Are you suggesting that you look at the way something is used in code to determine what kind of thing it is? You DO turn on Option Explicit don't you?? Have you have *NEVER* typed something like Set Whatever = 5 or Frm = Forms!MyForm Charlotte Foust From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 11:49:44 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:49:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB298@main2.marlow.com> How is it obviously wrong? It's only wrong if Hungarian is actually used. Also, when in the world would you ever have to manually check that code? Just running that code will cause it to fail, and the debugger will show you where it's failing. The only time you need to 'look' through code, is when the code runs, but the results don't match. So I still don't understand this type of argument for using one naming convention over another. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 10:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Easy one. objInventoryItem = 5 is obivously wrong but ii = 5 is NOT obviously wrong. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:01 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, but how does this: Dim objInventoryItem As InventoryItem make less mistakes then Dim ii As InventoryItem ??? The 'argument' was that it makes it harder to read for a maintenance programmer. I really don't see that, because if I'm the maintenance programmer, either way makes sense to me. But I certainly don't see how either method allows for less mistakes then the other, with the exception of scripting, like with ASP. In ASP, you are far more likely to misspell a longer name, then a shorter name. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I've been waiting for you to say "bad practice". No one said you have a bad practice(even though I think it is and now I have said it). We said it isn't "Best Practice". You know, I could look both ways before crossing the street (considered best practice) or I could squirrel method it(just dart across without looking). Either way, I get across the street. Now, not looking both ways may be the quickest way across the road. If I get clipped by a car, it may or may not be fatal. I can even get clipped by the car if I look both ways by using poor judgment. I see a whole lot less dead people on the road than squirrels. My point is this... We all make programming mistakes even when using best practices. These mistakes can be fatal (to your career or even someone's life) or not. Why not choose a method that has been proven to help reduce these mistakes? That is what naming conventions are all about. BTW, I would never have a variable like strSomeVeryLongDrawOutOverlyComplexName. That defeats the purpose of the naming convention. Instead of trying to punch holes in a naming convention, try using a naming convention to see its benefits. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 12:30:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:30:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB299@main2.marlow.com> Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 12:37:14 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:37:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 12:40:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:40:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB29B@main2.marlow.com> Who cares if you can tell by looking at it. If you wrote code like this: Dim cmb As ComboBox cmb=Me.cmbSomeCombo when you tried to run it, it is going to error. You can't say that Hungarian prevents you from having brain farts! No naming convention will do that. On top of that, no matter what convention you use, if you goof, more then likely you won't catch it just by looking at your code anyways. Ever proof read you're own work? You're mind has a nifty way of seeing what it thought it told you to write..... The argument that maintenance developers need to 'read' your code implies that your code is working in the first place. To successfully make a change in someones working code, you should understand the ENTIRE process before changing anything. Therefore, it shouldn't matter if you need to read the whole procedure before making a change, because you should be doing that just to insure that you aren't stepping on the code's toes. Still no comment on the With statement. It seems that so much of this 'Hungarian way or the Highway' is based upon having everything explicitly laid out in each line. Wouldn't that same principle mean that using a With statement is bad practice also, since it is referencing an object that could be several lines above the line you are looking at? If find it odd that I brought it up twice, and had no 'Hungarianonian' chime in about it. Maybe because if they applied their principles to the With statement, they wouldn't be able to use it anymore (and we all know how convenient the With statement can be.......uh oh....it's convenient....better not use it....LOL) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions That's exactly the point, Drew. If FirstName is a class, then that statement is invalid. But you can't tell by looking at it, now can you? Are you suggesting that you look at the way something is used in code to determine what kind of thing it is? You DO turn on Option Explicit don't you?? Have you have *NEVER* typed something like Set Whatever = 5 or Frm = Forms!MyForm Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 12:49:32 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:49:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB29C@main2.marlow.com> ROTFLMAO. Very interesting perspective. JC Quotes: >> And eating people made sense to Jeffry Dahmer. The rest of society didn't seem to agree. << >>Yea. Sorry bout that. I do get a little uh... harsh sometimes.<< Either trying to get a reaction, or apologizing for trying to get one.... Actually my little girl has learned that if she wants to change my mind about letting her do/get something, she has to present valid arguments. She's getting pretty good. Not too mention VERY creative. In fact, she would probably be a lot better at convincing the world to use Hungarian then most of the Hungarianonians on the List! (The little doe eyes don't hurt either.....along with a pout or two). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions LOL. I'm reading a book called 123 magic to teach parents a method of establishing discipline for small children (ages 2 to 12 - my 3+ year old in this case). The theory behind the book is that the child will do ANYTHING to get a reaction of any kind, for the simple reason that it gives them a feeling of power when they are really pretty much powerless. Any time you argue with the child, the argument can not be won simply because the POINT of the argument is not winning or losing, being right or being wrong, learning something new etc. but just that the argument itself gives a feeling of power. They are causing something to happen. An interesting perspective. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions That's exactly the point, Drew. If FirstName is a class, then that statement is invalid. But you can't tell by looking at it, now can you? Are you suggesting that you look at the way something is used in code to determine what kind of thing it is? You DO turn on Option Explicit don't you?? Have you have *NEVER* typed something like Set Whatever = 5 or Frm = Forms!MyForm Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 12:50:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:50:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Drew, Have you *ever* been through a code review? It doesn't sound like it because if you had, you would understand why it matters if you can tell by looking at it. We don't just rely on running the code to test it, we spot the obvious errors by looking at it in company. When someone else is looking at your code and pointing out egregious errors, you quickly learn to read it yourself because you're going to have to explain WHY you did that ... Assuming you can. Do you really write code and run it, fix an error, run it, fix an error, run it, ad nauseum, until you have found all the obvious errors? If I find one error, I assume there may be others and read through the code looking at them. I'm not saying you can't do it the other way, but I'd rather have it run without the error messages to tell me I screwed up. And I *surely* don't want someone else to point out my mistakes to me when I can spot them for myself if I just look. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:40 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Who cares if you can tell by looking at it. If you wrote code like this: Dim cmb As ComboBox cmb=Me.cmbSomeCombo when you tried to run it, it is going to error. You can't say that Hungarian prevents you from having brain farts! No naming convention will do that. On top of that, no matter what convention you use, if you goof, more then likely you won't catch it just by looking at your code anyways. Ever proof read you're own work? You're mind has a nifty way of seeing what it thought it told you to write..... The argument that maintenance developers need to 'read' your code implies that your code is working in the first place. To successfully make a change in someones working code, you should understand the ENTIRE process before changing anything. Therefore, it shouldn't matter if you need to read the whole procedure before making a change, because you should be doing that just to insure that you aren't stepping on the code's toes. Still no comment on the With statement. It seems that so much of this 'Hungarian way or the Highway' is based upon having everything explicitly laid out in each line. Wouldn't that same principle mean that using a With statement is bad practice also, since it is referencing an object that could be several lines above the line you are looking at? If find it odd that I brought it up twice, and had no 'Hungarianonian' chime in about it. Maybe because if they applied their principles to the With statement, they wouldn't be able to use it anymore (and we all know how convenient the With statement can be.......uh oh....it's convenient....better not use it....LOL) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions That's exactly the point, Drew. If FirstName is a class, then that statement is invalid. But you can't tell by looking at it, now can you? Are you suggesting that you look at the way something is used in code to determine what kind of thing it is? You DO turn on Option Explicit don't you?? Have you have *NEVER* typed something like Set Whatever = 5 or Frm = Forms!MyForm Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 12:57:10 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:57:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB29E@main2.marlow.com> I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 13:02:08 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:02:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: Drew, I'm not trying to make this personal, but I think it's time I stop my part in this "discussion". I don't remember a "With Statement" thread, which means it may not have been worth my time to reply or something outside the list came up that needed my attention. There is no rule requiring anyone to post a reply, and I sometimes get fed up with beating my head against a stone wall and abandon the attempt, since it is obviously non-productive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 13:05:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:05:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB29F@main2.marlow.com> I don't work with a 'team' of developers, actually, I usually end up reveiwing other peoples code. We have several 'ad hoc' developers here, who work on their own projects. I either get pulled in to fix something they can't do, or to reveiw their projects before they go live. In that process, I have NEVER cared what naming convention they have used, as long as they were somewhat consistant. I'm more concerned with logic, efficiency, and stability. Using a network .mdb for a critical manufacturing system is a bad idea. It should be done locally, and the data should be 'pushed' to the network in a separate process. Whether the coder used For I=1 to 100, or For intLoopCount= 1 to 100 doesn't matter one flip to me. No, I do not write code, run it, fix it, run it, fix it, etc. If I find an error, I double check everything. I still don't get the connection to Hungarian though. I would find more errors, especially in my scripting code, if I stick with a strict Hungarian naming convention, just simply for the bigger chance of a typo. As for plain old VB/VBA, are you saying that with Hungarian, you write perfect code? Impressive, my hats off to you. I find that in VB/VBA, I will have the same number of issues to deal with no matter what convention I am using. More often then not, the issues I am dealing with have to do with Network security, or doing something a little too off the wall, and I've hit a glitch. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Have you *ever* been through a code review? It doesn't sound like it because if you had, you would understand why it matters if you can tell by looking at it. We don't just rely on running the code to test it, we spot the obvious errors by looking at it in company. When someone else is looking at your code and pointing out egregious errors, you quickly learn to read it yourself because you're going to have to explain WHY you did that ... Assuming you can. Do you really write code and run it, fix an error, run it, fix an error, run it, ad nauseum, until you have found all the obvious errors? If I find one error, I assume there may be others and read through the code looking at them. I'm not saying you can't do it the other way, but I'd rather have it run without the error messages to tell me I screwed up. And I *surely* don't want someone else to point out my mistakes to me when I can spot them for myself if I just look. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:40 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Who cares if you can tell by looking at it. If you wrote code like this: Dim cmb As ComboBox cmb=Me.cmbSomeCombo when you tried to run it, it is going to error. You can't say that Hungarian prevents you from having brain farts! No naming convention will do that. On top of that, no matter what convention you use, if you goof, more then likely you won't catch it just by looking at your code anyways. Ever proof read you're own work? You're mind has a nifty way of seeing what it thought it told you to write..... The argument that maintenance developers need to 'read' your code implies that your code is working in the first place. To successfully make a change in someones working code, you should understand the ENTIRE process before changing anything. Therefore, it shouldn't matter if you need to read the whole procedure before making a change, because you should be doing that just to insure that you aren't stepping on the code's toes. Still no comment on the With statement. It seems that so much of this 'Hungarian way or the Highway' is based upon having everything explicitly laid out in each line. Wouldn't that same principle mean that using a With statement is bad practice also, since it is referencing an object that could be several lines above the line you are looking at? If find it odd that I brought it up twice, and had no 'Hungarianonian' chime in about it. Maybe because if they applied their principles to the With statement, they wouldn't be able to use it anymore (and we all know how convenient the With statement can be.......uh oh....it's convenient....better not use it....LOL) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions That's exactly the point, Drew. If FirstName is a class, then that statement is invalid. But you can't tell by looking at it, now can you? Are you suggesting that you look at the way something is used in code to determine what kind of thing it is? You DO turn on Option Explicit don't you?? Have you have *NEVER* typed something like Set Whatever = 5 or Frm = Forms!MyForm Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Ah, well, now you have a different argument to defend. How could FirstName be a class, if you have this: FirstName="Hello" ???? The way a variable is used, will determine what kind of variable you are dealing with. If you see: Set FirstName= ..... It's not a string variable, is it? On top of that, if it's a property, which could act like a string, then you would see the Object.Property...unless of course you use a With statement somewhere. Does that mean that using a With Statement is bad practice? Because how is a maintenance coder supposed to know what object is being used as a parent, without having to go all the way up to the top to find the With statement? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> Isn't FirstName going to be a string. No, it could be a class, a property, or something else entirely, Drew. That's the point, and it's the problem I have with the "recommended" naming for .Net, where the assumption seems to be that everything is itself so it doesn't need any additional labelling. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. So why in the world, would you need strFirstName? Isn't FirstName going to be a string. Except of course, with your new naming convention, we would all be binary representations. Surrogate keys for our natural DNA keys. LOL! By this same logic, if you see For i=1 to 1000, can't you listen to what you just said, and realize it's a NUMBER, and even perhaps guess that it's an integer....more then likely a long integer? What kills me on this whole thread, is that if you saw these two peices of code: Dim i As Long For i=1 to 100 Debug.Print i Next i -- AND -- Dim strLetsCountToOneHundred As String Do Until strLetsCountToOneHundred="100" strLetsCountToOneHundred="" & Val(strLetsCountToOneHundred) Debug.Print strLetsCountToOneHundred Loop You would approve of the second one, because it stuck to your naming convention, regardless of the fact that it is totally moronic to perform the task that way. You would disregard the first one, because even though it does exactly what it needs to, is understandable to more then half of the coders in the world, took a tenth of the time to type out........it doesn't use Hungarian convention...so it is bad in your book. Phooey, go with the inefficient garbage....at least it uses Hungarian By the way, good luck with your book. No, I'm not going to buy a copy....don't buy any books on programming..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard >and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. Nope, I said if you went to a large company espousing using I or II as variable names you would generally be shown the door. >And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Precisely right, one very good reason for using a convention such as the Hungarian is that it tells you the data type of the variable. It certainly is NOT a reason for abandoning such a convention. >Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Let's look at them: >- .NET code is strongly typed, removing the need to identify variable >type by its name. Excuse me? What does strongly typed (must be identified as a specific data type at dim time and can only be assigned that type) have to do with readability? Readability is what naming conventions are about. When I am down buried in code and I come on i, I need to know that I cannot assign a string to it because it is a currency variable. The fact that it is strongly typed is exactly an argument for telling me what the variable is (naming convention?)!!! >- .NET has a rich new type system. Coming up with prefixes for all of >the new types would tedious and hard to keep track of. That is undeniable. Just LEARNING all the types is tedious and hard to keep track of! With 2500 (or is it 3500) classes, you certainly can't come up with a prefix for each. However, a string is still a string and an integer is an integer. It would still be useful to know that when I try to assign something to that integer I want to make sure that it is an integer. >- In Visual Studio .NET, you simply have to hover over a variable to >get its type. This removes the need to identify a variable's type by its name. Bull! I read code by the acre every day. To have to move my mouse over everything in sight is simply ludicrous. >- Eliminating Hungarian Notation makes code easier to manage, >especially when you decide that you need to change a variable's type (for example, if you decide to use a double instead of a long). Bull! Or I guess what I really mean is "of course it does". On the other hand just using i for every variable also makes things easier. You'd never need to rename anything because everything would already be named i. Or II if you were Drew ;-) I have used a Hungarian convention for a long time (not that it is the end all and be all of conventions but at least it qualifies as one!) and a simple find and replace works wonders for such renaming tasks. Furthermore I end up changing the data type of variables oh... Hm... Once in a blue moon. I know that when I'm dealing with money it's gonna be currency, when I'm dealing with a text well... Uhh... It's gonna be a string. Once in a blue moon I misjudge on the byte/integer/long stuff. Once in a great while I change a text box to a combo or vv. Yep, I have to find and replace. That is just a silly argument. So what we come up with is a SINGLE somewhat maybe kinda sorta valid reason (for .NET specifically). However I'm on a roll here. The COLBY convention, everything is named i. Simple, easy to remember the convention, saves bajillions of keystrokes, easy to document your convention, never have to strain your brain to think up new names for things... Yea, that's the ticket. Hmm... Wait. Let's really develop this. All variables are named beginning with a, the next one b and so forth. Very rare to use more than 26 variables in one place, but if your do... Uh... Ok... Let me think... This is a tough one... Yea!!! Let's just go with aa, ab, ac... COOL!!! I mean think about it, we could have 26*26 variables before we even had to go to three characters. Perhaps I could write a book on it. One page, in fact, one paragraph, explaining the convention. $69.99 / copy. No printing costs. Yea... Brilliant! You did say as long as *A* standard is used and it is documented... Drew, ya want to buy a copy? And don't EVEN tell me that its YOUR convention, cause I'm betting you didn't think of the ab thing! OMG I'm gonna be a millionaire. OMG2. I just realized I could write a really cool language using this same concept. Instead of For Next it would just be a b. THINK ABOUT IT! Bill Gates, move over! While this has been entertaining, I think I've made the points I wanted to make. And yes, I can hear the huge sigh of relief coming from my email client. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Dunno what this II stuff you're going on about has to do with it - MS never recommend that and nor would I. My point is that you seem to recommend everyone using the same standard and quotes MS as someone to take lead from when it comes to coding. They've *changed* their standard which pretty stuffs up your argument. And strongly typing IS a primary issue in naming conventions. Intellisens is an added bonus. Here's 4 valid points of which intellisense is only one. http://www.fmsinc.com/dotnet/analyzer/Rules/Hungarian.htm Its pretty clear that the generally accepted 'standards' are changing for many reasons. If people choose not to change with them - that's their choice. Many people refuse to accept others point of view and will probably continue using outdated methods - just as they do coding languages. And if they're happy with it then good on them, they may well do the job for years to come and are the right tool for many situations.. I'll say again, as long as *A* standard IS USED - and its clearly documented and followed - then the rest of this argument is pointless. Think of all the beautifully structured, commented and named code you could have written instead of contributing to this thread ;=) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 13:19:39 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:19:39 -0500 Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A1@main2.marlow.com> Here ya go, a new thread. Is the With Statement bad practice, because it's entire purpose is to remove the root object from your code, effectively orphaning chunks of code? With the use of the With Statement, you cannot directly tell from an individual line of code what is being done, and what is doing it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I'm not trying to make this personal, but I think it's time I stop my part in this "discussion". I don't remember a "With Statement" thread, which means it may not have been worth my time to reply or something outside the list came up that needed my attention. There is no rule requiring anyone to post a reply, and I sometimes get fed up with beating my head against a stone wall and abandon the attempt, since it is obviously non-productive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Fri Aug 13 13:32:24 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:32:24 -0400 Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FED77@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> As I understand it it's a good thing because it does not cause the object to resolve itself everytime you call a method or property. To clarify, when I call oMyObject.Property the reference to oMyObject has to be confirmed to exist (<> Nothing) with each call. Using With eliminates that AFAIK. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Here ya go, a new thread. Is the With Statement bad practice, because it's entire purpose is to remove the root object from your code, effectively orphaning chunks of code? With the use of the With Statement, you cannot directly tell from an individual line of code what is being done, and what is doing it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I'm not trying to make this personal, but I think it's time I stop my part in this "discussion". I don't remember a "With Statement" thread, which means it may not have been worth my time to reply or something outside the list came up that needed my attention. There is no rule requiring anyone to post a reply, and I sometimes get fed up with beating my head against a stone wall and abandon the attempt, since it is obviously non-productive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri Aug 13 13:36:30 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:36:30 -0400 Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA3093798D@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB75E@ADGSERVER> I think it is supposed to actually help speed up the code in many situations because it does not have to decode the full reference each time. I think that this is true especially with recordsets. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Here ya go, a new thread. Is the With Statement bad practice, because it's entire purpose is to remove the root object from your code, effectively orphaning chunks of code? With the use of the With Statement, you cannot directly tell from an individual line of code what is being done, and what is doing it. Drew From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 13:41:20 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:41:20 -0700 Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Message-ID: I don't remember ever seeing this topic, Drew. It's possible I was out of town or my computer was in the shop for two weeks when it came up. If you don't like it, don't use it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 10:20 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Here ya go, a new thread. Is the With Statement bad practice, because it's entire purpose is to remove the root object from your code, effectively orphaning chunks of code? With the use of the With Statement, you cannot directly tell from an individual line of code what is being done, and what is doing it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I'm not trying to make this personal, but I think it's time I stop my part in this "discussion". I don't remember a "With Statement" thread, which means it may not have been worth my time to reply or something outside the list came up that needed my attention. There is no rule requiring anyone to post a reply, and I sometimes get fed up with beating my head against a stone wall and abandon the attempt, since it is obviously non-productive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Aug 13 13:42:54 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:42:54 -0700 Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: I believe that is the purpose. Whether it actually works that way or not, I'll leave to someone else to wrestle with. I know that's what Ken Getz claimed when it was first introduce, and Ken really ought to know. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 10:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions As I understand it it's a good thing because it does not cause the object to resolve itself everytime you call a method or property. To clarify, when I call oMyObject.Property the reference to oMyObject has to be confirmed to exist (<> Nothing) with each call. Using With eliminates that AFAIK. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Here ya go, a new thread. Is the With Statement bad practice, because it's entire purpose is to remove the root object from your code, effectively orphaning chunks of code? With the use of the With Statement, you cannot directly tell from an individual line of code what is being done, and what is doing it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I'm not trying to make this personal, but I think it's time I stop my part in this "discussion". I don't remember a "With Statement" thread, which means it may not have been worth my time to reply or something outside the list came up that needed my attention. There is no rule requiring anyone to post a reply, and I sometimes get fed up with beating my head against a stone wall and abandon the attempt, since it is obviously non-productive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". ************************************************************************ *********** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 13 14:50:27 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:50:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <232419D8B637CB478F9B3EEA9FE37BCF0243DD17@ahrc01b1e0151.hoffman.army.mil> Message-ID: <047301c4816e$c8139a10$6601a8c0@rock> Ah but the world is not round, except in the vaguest sense. Certainly it is more round than flat, but actually it's shaped more like a Japanese orange (with squashed top and bottom) than a sphere. And in fact, if you happen to follow some modern physics and philosophy, even this analogy may be wrong. If reality is in fact an involuted hypersphere, then "round" or "flat" or "Japanese orange" are all moot. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brock, Christian T, HRC-Alexandria Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions That is a canard. A myth told to children. Every educated person since the Ancient Greeks knew the world was round. Christian Brock -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:48 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that were in the field for years, thought the world was flat. Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't come close to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. Drew From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 15:31:26 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:31:26 -0500 Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conve nti ons Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A4@main2.marlow.com> Grin, I knew that actually. I was asking the Hungarianonians. LOL, cause it goes against their principle of keeping all possible information in the line of code that is being run. (Okay, being a smarta$$, I know....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons As I understand it it's a good thing because it does not cause the object to resolve itself everytime you call a method or property. To clarify, when I call oMyObject.Property the reference to oMyObject has to be confirmed to exist (<> Nothing) with each call. Using With eliminates that AFAIK. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Here ya go, a new thread. Is the With Statement bad practice, because it's entire purpose is to remove the root object from your code, effectively orphaning chunks of code? With the use of the With Statement, you cannot directly tell from an individual line of code what is being done, and what is doing it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I'm not trying to make this personal, but I think it's time I stop my part in this "discussion". I don't remember a "With Statement" thread, which means it may not have been worth my time to reply or something outside the list came up that needed my attention. There is no rule requiring anyone to post a reply, and I sometimes get fed up with beating my head against a stone wall and abandon the attempt, since it is obviously non-productive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 15:32:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:32:14 -0500 Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conve nti ons Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A5@main2.marlow.com> I wasn't a topic. It was part of several replies to the Naming Conventions thread. It was just ignored, over and over. I was wondering if my posts were being completely read or not....guess not. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons I don't remember ever seeing this topic, Drew. It's possible I was out of town or my computer was in the shop for two weeks when it came up. If you don't like it, don't use it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 10:20 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: With Statement (Bad Practice?) WAS RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventi ons Here ya go, a new thread. Is the With Statement bad practice, because it's entire purpose is to remove the root object from your code, effectively orphaning chunks of code? With the use of the With Statement, you cannot directly tell from an individual line of code what is being done, and what is doing it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, I'm not trying to make this personal, but I think it's time I stop my part in this "discussion". I don't remember a "With Statement" thread, which means it may not have been worth my time to reply or something outside the list came up that needed my attention. There is no rule requiring anyone to post a reply, and I sometimes get fed up with beating my head against a stone wall and abandon the attempt, since it is obviously non-productive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I find it odd that you have never recognized the validity of anyone else's viewpoint either. When I bring up examples (because I still haven't gotten a reply about the With Statement), if your side doesn't have a good argument for/against, I get 'you just 'have' to be right'. Have I ever said that to you? Other then in this post? Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, the reason you prolong these debates is because you can't STAND to recognize the validity of anyone else's viewpoint. Nobody said they couldn't read your code, we said we wouldn't want to have to. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Websters definition of elite (letter d, out of many....) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence An elitist is leadership/rule by the elite. Now, we have a goup of persons, who by virtue of position (experience) or education/training say that Hungarian is the only way to program. Anything else is bad practice. Exercising influence over those new Listers, who may just be starting out in programming/developing. Setting such hard rigid rules, is certainly going to influence them one way or the other. So if you ask me, the 'elitist' comment is pretty much on the mark. That's why I even bother to get into these debates. I honestly could care less if anyone thinks I'm right or wrong. But I am self taught, and I learned a lot from forums much like this. But I had to learn VERY early, that some of what is out there is rock solid knowledge, and very practical advice. Yet some of what is out there is simply tribal knowledge, with little foundation of actual usefulness. Paraphrasing current debate: Hungarians: If you don't use our naming convention, no one will understand your code. AnyConventions: We understand either way. Hungarians: Gasp, Sputter, ack....well, WE won't understand your code then. (Okay, took a little artistic license there! LOL) So that's why I dig into these debates. I want to make sure that people who are still learning the in's and out's are presented with all options, so they can chose which method best suits THEIR needs. I can honestly say that I have learned something useful from everyone who contributes on the list. JC made a flattering comment about what he has seen of my code, and believe you me, I think very highly of JC, and his skills. No matter how 'rough' we are with each other, I think we have a pretty good respect for each other. (I know I do). I have also come away from some of these debates with MY opinion changed. Like the date table issue, using a table populated with dates and 'sub info' of those dates. I honestly never thought of doing that, and with the information presented, I did my own testing, and definitely agree that it is by far more efficient! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I truly think that is an offensive remark, Andrew. Most of the arguments in this list are good-natured, and the posts generally *are* on topic. The "elitist" comment, regardless of who it might be aimed at, is out of line. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >> We're talking about access LMAO - the majority of posts on this list are off-topic and made by the same (elitist) half-dozen people. Please don't even try that one on me. Microsoft DO NOT recommend Hungarian anymore. This is a fact. Believe what you want. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 2:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Microsoft has *always* been wishy washy about coming down firmly behind any particular naming conventions. Your first link really says nothing about Hungarian and is typical of weak Microsoft suggestions. Your second link isn't Microsoft, it's SSW, and our naming conventions are just as valid as theirs, thank you! Naming IS different in VB.Net, but that's because the language and the objects are different. We're talking about Access. And even in VB.Net, the MS partners we work with use hungarian for non-object variables. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Then why has Microsoft CHANGED it's recommended naming conventions.. They recommend NOT to use prefixes now as its less relevant working in strongly typed languages such as .Net. Hungarian is out... (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbcn7/ html /vaconVBNamingRules.asp) (http://www.ssw.com.au/SSW/Standards/DeveloperDotNet/DotNetStandard_Obje ctNa ming.aspx) Your argument about using the same naming conventions 'everywhere' so it us universally recognised, is therefore mute. Microsoft THEMSELVES have changed. Times change, technology changes, standards change. The most important thing about using naming conventions is to actually use one (as is usually the outcome of this religious argument). As long as its documented as to WHAT convention you are using within a project, and you stick to it, then those that follow have a reference. In the real world, where you develop different projects with different teams, in different companies, you're simply not going to always be able to use the same convention. Therefore you need to be adaptable. A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Saving your time is nowhere near as relevant as saving the time of the person coming in after you. You put in 100 hours or 200 hours and are done. The maintenance is hundreds or thousands of hours over many many years. If the poor schmuk coming in has to spend 100 hours just figuring out what the heck your naming is before they can even do anything, the company just lost all the money you saved them and MORE. That person goes away and the next person comes in and spends 100 hours figuring out your crazy naming scheme... That person goes away... Hmm.... II? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! You are not focused on the overall picture, just your convenience and "getting it out the door". I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if you went to a Microsoft, or any other large company and told them "I want to program for you and this is what I do and why" (giving them this email below) they would politely show you the door. Using the fact that there is no "one standard" to justify doing whatever you feel like is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions So what do I use for a counting byte? Or a counting long? The naming convention I use (yes I realize that is I) has three character prefixes for not only objects but data types as well. Your point about "the whole world doesn't program the same way" is of course valid. But to program with the convention I use I or J or K is NOT a valid variable? That is exactly my point, that no one programs the same, which includes 'naming conventions'. Since there is no truly established (and adhered too) naming convention, anything works, and doesn't work, just as well/unwell. And, you proved my point, 'to program with the convention I use', is just like saying 'I like blue, so your red car is the wrong color'. LOL. Because there is no absolute standard, there is no way to program for those that come after you. YOU may like the code that you write, but the next guy may use a different standard then you, and he will probably gripe just as much about your convention as you do about someone elses. To really write forward code, I (try to) stick to two rules. One, stick with the same naming convention throughout a project. No matter what your naming convention is, changing rules in mid stream is far more agitating then just adjusting for a new convention. Two, stick to the same programming logic/style. Personally, my pet peeve is goofy logic. I honestly don't care what someone uses as a naming convention, because I look at the logic the code is running, rather then look at the names of the variables. I have seen some pretty bass ackwards logic in a lot of code. Not too mention that existing Objects do not adhere to prefixed naming conventions. It's Me.Height, not Me.dblHeight. Why? Because Height is a property, it's going to be a number. When you look at someone's code, and they refer to Me.Height, do you then go to the help, to find what data type is used? No, because quite frankly, data types are irrelevant until the logic is satisfied. If the logic works fine, you should already be familiar with the variables in play. Then it's only a matter of looking at the dim statements to verify data types. So when I create a Class, I use Properties without prefixes, and I name the classes as to what they represent, without a prefix. It's not colForms("MyForm"), it's Forms("MyForm"). It's not Dim rs AS objADODB.objRecordset, it's Dim rs AS ADODB.Recordset. So if I build an Class to represent an Inventory item, I would use Dim ii AS InventoryItem. Ack, wha?, spatter, spit, garble. That's right, Dim ii As InventoryItem. Why? Because I code a LOT. In VBA, VB, and ASP. If I were to use: objCurrentInventoryItem, that is 23 characters, versus TWO! I type around 80 words a minute, which is 400 characters a minute. It would take me a minute to type 17 of those variable names, versus typing ii 200 times! That saves time......by quite a bit. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From MPorter at acsalaska.com Fri Aug 13 15:44:01 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:44:01 -0800 Subject: OT - was: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <635B80FE6C7D5A409586A6A110D97D170E4C1A@ACSANCHOR.corp.acsalaska.com> Some would beg to differ... www.flat-earth.org Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:50 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Ah but the world is not round, except in the vaguest sense. > Certainly it > is more round than flat, but actually it's shaped more like a Japanese > orange (with squashed top and bottom) than a sphere. And in > fact, if you > happen to follow some modern physics and philosophy, even this analogy > may be wrong. If reality is in fact an involuted hypersphere, then > "round" or "flat" or "Japanese orange" are all moot. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brock, > Christian T, HRC-Alexandria > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:44 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > That is a canard. A myth told to children. Every educated > person since > the Ancient Greeks knew the world was round. > > Christian Brock > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:48 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that > were in the > field for years, thought the world was flat. > > Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? > > Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't > come close > to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof > that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > *********************************************************************************** 13/8/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: InterScan_Disclaimer.txt URL: From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 13 15:56:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:56:17 -0500 Subject: OT - was: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A6@main2.marlow.com> LOL, loved the Springfield theory.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Porter, Mark Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 3:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: OT - was: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Some would beg to differ... www.flat-earth.org Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:50 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Ah but the world is not round, except in the vaguest sense. > Certainly it > is more round than flat, but actually it's shaped more like a Japanese > orange (with squashed top and bottom) than a sphere. And in > fact, if you > happen to follow some modern physics and philosophy, even this analogy > may be wrong. If reality is in fact an involuted hypersphere, then > "round" or "flat" or "Japanese orange" are all moot. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brock, > Christian T, HRC-Alexandria > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:44 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > That is a canard. A myth told to children. Every educated > person since > the Ancient Greeks knew the world was round. > > Christian Brock > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:48 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that > were in the > field for years, thought the world was flat. > > Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? > > Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't > come close > to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof > that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > **************************************************************************** ******* 13/8/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS From Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil Fri Aug 13 16:21:51 2004 From: Christian.Brock at hoffman.army.mil (Brock, Christian T, HRC-Alexandria) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 17:21:51 -0400 Subject: OT - was: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <232419D8B637CB478F9B3EEA9FE37BCF0243DF5A@ahrc01b1e0151.hoffman.army.mil> Willful fools are always an exception. Christian Brock -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Friday, 13 August 2004 16:44 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: OT - was: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Some would beg to differ... www.flat-earth.org Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:50 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Ah but the world is not round, except in the vaguest sense. > Certainly it > is more round than flat, but actually it's shaped more like a Japanese > orange (with squashed top and bottom) than a sphere. And in > fact, if you > happen to follow some modern physics and philosophy, even this analogy > may be wrong. If reality is in fact an involuted hypersphere, then > "round" or "flat" or "Japanese orange" are all moot. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brock, > Christian T, HRC-Alexandria > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:44 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > That is a canard. A myth told to children. Every educated > person since > the Ancient Greeks knew the world was round. > > Christian Brock > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:48 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > True, and a lot of the 'old time' scientistics, people that > were in the > field for years, thought the world was flat. > > Hmmm, should we keep bringing up these kind of comparisons? > > Kodak balked at the idea of 'photo copies', because it didn't > come close > to their current photography standards.....guess Xerox is living proof > that 'our way, or the highway' should be reconsidered sometimes. > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > **************************************************************************** ******* 13/8/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 13 18:31:14 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 19:31:14 -0400 Subject: OT - was: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <232419D8B637CB478F9B3EEA9FE37BCF0243DF5A@ahrc01b1e0151.hoffman.army.mil> Message-ID: <04b101c4818d$a05c4570$6601a8c0@rock> Maybe in your universe. Sadly, in mine they appear to be the rule. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brock, Christian T, HRC-Alexandria Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 5:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: OT - was: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Willful fools are always an exception. Christian Brock From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Aug 14 02:07:14 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 00:07:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA AccessObfuscation Contest In-Reply-To: <032e01c4808f$c7e72730$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Here is a modest contribution, of a function, from some old code (Goes back fifteen years and I still support this site.) A few hints as to how the language works: 1. All variable must be declared, are case sensitive, prefixed with a '$' sign, but the built in functions are not case sensitive. 2. The '\' symbol is used as a wrap line like VBA's '& _'. 3. It uses the 'Return' statement instead of VBA's weird 'check_date = $error' coding structure. 4. All functions calls must be prefixed with a '_'. 5. True = 1 and False = 0 6. 'Match''s matches are case sensitive and is similar to a variation of the 'Instr' function. 7. A phrase like (a = b) will produce either a 1 or a 0. (True or False) 8. Variables a not pre-typed but once initialized with a numeric or string will then behave as if they were typed. FUNCTION _check_date($temp) LOCAL $month, $day, $year, $back1, $back2, $deliminator $error = 1 if val(right($temp,4)) > 1900 $year = val(right($temp,4)) if len(trim($temp)) = 11 $month = proper(mid($temp,4,3)) $month = (match("JanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDec",$month)+2)/3 $day = val(left($temp,2)) else $month = val(left($temp,2)) $day = val(mid($temp,4,2)) end if $deliminator = mid($temp,3,1) $back1 = $deliminator $back2 = $deliminator else $temp = LEFT($temp,8) $month = VAL ( LEFT ( $temp,2 ) ) $day = VAL ( MID ( $temp,4,2 ) ) IF LEN($temp) = 10 $year = VAL ( RIGHT ( $temp,4 )) ELSE $year = VAL ( RIGHT ( $temp,2 )) END IF $deliminator = mid($temp,3,1) $back1 = MID ( $temp,3,1 ) $back2 = MID ( $temp,6,1 ) end if IF ($year * ( $back1 = $deliminator ) * $month * ( $back2 = $deliminator ) * ( $day )) > 0 IF ($month <= 12 AND $day <= 31) IF (( MATCH ( "469",STR($month)) OR $month = 11 ) AND $day < 31 )\ OR (( $month = 2 AND MOD( $year,4 ) AND $day < 29 )\ OR ( $month = 2 AND NOT ( MOD ( $year,4 )) AND $day < 30 ))\ OR ( MATCH ( "1357810",STR($month)) OR $month = 12 ) $error = 0 END IF END IF END IF RETURN($error) END FUNCTION It is not actually Access, as if you haven't guessed but if anyone had the mind they could convert it.... It is not fair to use Access's extensive function library to resolve the previous function just keep it simple and similar. Now what does the previous function do? Previously, two other programmers have attempted to manage the fifty plus code blocks, at an estimated 8.5 thousand lines of code, and quit, shortly after starting. Above is just a small snippet from one functions from one of the libaries. So if anyone feels in a masochistic mood or feels particularly brave, try and convert it to VBA. Jim Lawrence -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Announcing (Proposing) the First Annual DBA AccessObfuscation Contest The Naming Conventions thread has been most interesting and has prompted me to suggest an annual contest a la the classic DDJ C-Obfuscation contest. The point is to write a geruinely incomprehensible routine that does something useful. It would only make sense if we confined ourselves to say 5 candidate routines, Access-specific of course. Contributors could then submit a "solution" to any of the 5 problems. (A double-prize might be considered for code that does not even make it apparent which problem it is solving!) Step 1 is to gather the list of problems. I venture the following merely as a starting point. I haven't given any of them a lot of consideration, they are nothing more than something to shoot at, if you will. Somehow let's settle on 5 problems worth obfuscating. After that, obfuscation will be, heh heh, obvious. Herewith, 5 problems. Please feel free to shoot them down as insignificant or not worth writing etc. I would love to have the list come up with 5 genuinely interesting problems, on which to base the obfuscated solutions. None of them would be immediately useful in anyone's current project, but I think it would be fun to see the variants that contestants come up with. Five initial examples. Fire at will. Please come up with more interesting problems! 1. For every open form for every textbox make it read-only change the colours 2. Given tables Parent and Child, delete every third Parent record and all her children in the Child table. 3. Manufacture some test data in 4 tables: parent, child1, child2, and child2's child. The routine accepts the number of parents to create and the maximum number of child rows to create. Then it randomly adds kids (and grandkids) to tables 2, 3 and 4 for each parent, using the specified maximum. 4. Delete every file from every directory to which the user has access, while presenting warm and fuzzy messages. (Don't really delete them, just print a message suggesting that could have. Option: Tell them you HAVE deleted them, and offer recovery for $.05 a file. Bring up PayPal to complete the transaction. 5. Create an email to every person in your Outlook Contacts folder, announcing that your surgery was unsuccessful and you are now a refridgerator salesperson in Resolute Bay. Five stupid problems, I admit. Let's come up with five smart problems and then obfuscate their solutions! (At the least, each problem could become an issue of our newsletter, including the various solutions sent in by listers.) One obvious obfuscation technique is purposeful misuse of Hungarian. Dim strValue as Long ' the number of striations per meter of a given cave wall. Dim datLast as Currency ' how much you paid the hooker for your last "date". Dim booLevel as Byte ' scare factor in a horror movie focus group. Dim booLevel as Long ' WWE measurement as reported by microphones. Dim cboAvail as Boolean ' is this jazz musician available for work in a combo? But there are many more. Table names offer abundant opportunities to play. You get the idea, I hope.... Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Aug 14 02:27:20 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 00:27:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Robert: I have found that when running a timer when other code is also running can have odd side-affects. Using the DoEvent structure in your 'Form_Timer()' event could resolve your problems: Private Sub Form_Timer() 'Run a process If Me.TimerInterval > 0 'Do something ... Counter = Counter + 1 'When finished...reset/clear If Counter > 1000 then Me.TimerInterval = 0 End If 'Give process time to work Do While Me.TimerInterval > 0 DoEvents Loop 'Initialize again If If Me.TimerInterval = 0 Then Me.TimerInterval = 100 End Sub HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John, I have been dealing with this for over 4 months, and through some serious testing I discovered if I shut down the timer, the problem went away, never to occur again. So that lead me to think that there was something failing or too complex about the code running in the timer. So I ran the timer to "count" and the problem would reoccur. Extraordinarily frustrating!!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions May I suggest, "lost cause"? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 8/11/2004 1:40 PM: >These are the after effects of someone's 'deemed' best practices. If I >had a contract job, like the one you discussed below, I would do as the >client asked. But when developing other software, which did not have >such client restraints, then I would use the method that I work the >fastest in, and find the most convenient to use. That saves my clients >time and money. > >It's not lazy, in fact, you could say that you're being lazy, in >applying one clients 'demands' on all of your clients, so that you >don't have to change mindsets. > > While everyone on the list will agree that i, l and k are all simply just integer or long counters, and could be used interchangeably... it also isn't a big deal to be explicit and say lngRankCnt or lngRankCount, the fact that it took you all of a .001 seconds to type out the extra characters is negligable... and in fact when reviewing your code for logic you'd spot the variable name and explicitly know what the heck it was ment to do. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Aug 14 03:29:25 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 01:29:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDBE@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: John: You might find this article, about the man who spent a major portion of his life condemning the GOTO and GOSUB commands, interesting. Quote: He was famously the leader in the abolition of the GOTO statement from programming. http://reference.creativesystemdesigns.com/miscellaneous.html#edsger Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions My first real dive into the programming waters: I was a Technician fixing boards for Megatek corp in San Diego. My test station had a Data General Nova mini computer with about 32kb of memory. I found the old star trek program (very crude, drew "maps" on a terminal with stars and ships and stuff) on the hard disk, written in some variant of Basic. The basic interpreter took about 20kbytes. The program took 16 kbytes. I only had 32 kbytes so the program wouldn't run. I could however view it in an editor so I printed the program out on a TTY roll of paper (the old yellow stuff for all you old farts) and started trying to figure out how to get it to fit in the available memory. This was the early 80s (82 perhaps?) and this version of basic didn't even have functions or subs (or maybe it did and the author just didn't use them?). Anyway, I started drawing lines from the goto statement to the line where the program execution resumed (the target line). That exercise demonstrated where the term "spaghetti code" came from. The result looked pretty much like a drawing of a sheet of spaghetti. I never did get it working, but I did replace it with a similar game written from scratch using Turbo Pascal which I learned shortly thereafter. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions And LOTS of gotos. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:58 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, when I was a kid, I did program in Basic.....good ol' DOS. No naming convention at all, no classes, just ABC, and XYZ. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions I'm just saying that you probably were not programming when no one used naming conventions. Not a dig at your experience/ability at all. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:11 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions About 5 years (give or take a bit, depending on what system we are talking about). Just out of curiousity, what does this prove? When someone with this vast programming experience has a networking issue, shouldn't they have all that experience working with computers, to just figure out what is wrong? Should I ask them how long they have been using computers for? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >From this response, I take it that you have not been a programmer for a long time. John, and I (and others) are speaking from experience. I have had to maintain code that use single letter variables (or seemingly meaningless names) as well as code that uses some type of naming convention with good naming structure. I much prefer the latter, it is way easier to maintain/debug. Sure, some of this stuff was taught to me. That does not make it a reason to use it. My experience has just reinforced what someone already told me. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions You're right, this does hit close to home. I have always railed against the 'we do it because that is how I was taught', or 'we do it because that's the way we do it'. For example, JC brought up a ventilator company he does work for. They have set practices, guidelines to work processes. On paper, and even a little below the surface, the system looks great. JC writes a procedure in code. 3 guys go over every line of code. All of the code is compared to various standards and guidelines. Wow, with a system like that, a ventilator couldn't POSSIBLY fail from coding! WRONG! Sure, it looks good, it sounds solid, but there is a catch. It's structured. It's a rule system designed around a specific set of circumstances. The problem is that the real world changes, and usually without warning. One anomoly that can't fit into the rule system, and it all falls apart! With this particular debate, there have been three arguments to using Hungarian. #1. It's the way I was taught, or It's how I have always done it. Completely invalid argument. It doesn't invalidate the method, but it invalidates the reason someone else should use the same method. #2. It makes it easier for maintenance developers. Wrong. JC proved this himself, by saying that not everyone uses the same convention. Therefore, it only makes it easier for maintenance developers that use that convention, no more no less. Another convention has the same chances of being easier to maintain. #3. A client wants it done with a particular convention. The only valid argument made. And one I am in complete agreement with. If a client wants a particular naming convention, they get a particular naming convention. This still does not invalidate other conventions used for projects not done for that particular client. What REALLY kills me is that this debate is functionally identical to the NaturalKey/SurrogateKey debate. We are all relational database developers. We have no problem relating an AutoNumber value of 5, to a particular User/Item/Piece of data, but we have a problem relating ii as a variable representing an InventoryItem Class Object? Um....why? When I look at code, I look at what is declared, and if I saw rs as a recordset, I would not have a problem 'thinking' recordset, everytime I ran across rs. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Drew, Why do you take the extreme point of view like this? The name you gave the variable implies that I'm to lazy to read code, can't interpret logic, and that I write extremely long variable names. None of which is true. I don't care how the compiler interprets my variable name, I care how those who maintain my code (including me) interprets it's purpose. I think this is hitting a little too close to home for you. It is true that I want to impress the client in a positive way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Actually, I find it easier to remember that I'm using i, then it is to remember that I am using lngSomeLongDrawnOutCompletelyMeaninglessToTheCompilerNameSoThatSomeoneWh oIsT ooLazyToReadTheCodeLogicCanImpressAClientThatTheyKnowAParticularVariable Repr esentsXYZ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions There are plenty of other things that I would rather fill my mind with when developing and debugging code than remembering in each line of code(in the loop) that 'i' is the employee type and 'j' is the employee counter. Wouldn't you agree that it is hard enough sometimes just to follow the logic of the code you are working on let alone remembering these variable interpretations? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Just a slight aside here, but you're gonna have to read the rest of the statement anyway -- if you're counting something, you still need the rest of the statement to figure out the rest -- the variable name itself is NOT going to give you all the information you need. You still need the rest of the statement. Not a for or an against, just thought I'd mention it... Susan H. Even 'intI' means little more than 'i'. Like you said, something like 'intEmployeeCounter' is easy to understand. Just to be even more clear, take the following into consideration... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Aug 14 03:27:43 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 01:27:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC0@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: Hi John: Completely off topic but it is Friday the thirteenth. An educated friend of ours had just completed a Masters in Child Psychology and had subsequently been instructing us and her other friends on the proper methods of managing children. Our children, were then young and were proving very difficult to manage (unlike their parents.) She was sure she could get them in line within a couple of weeks, if given the opportunity. She had her first son and he was unstoppable. All of us quietly mused, that there was justice in the universe. I remember her saying to me, when I had appears to be about to say something, at her sister-in-laws wedding reception, in which her son was racing around unfettered and she having collapsed in the adjacent chair..."Don't say anything! I have been eating crow for the last six months." My point is: No amount of preparation or education can allow you to win control of a 'force of nature'. ...and further more... A compromise can not be won against those who's creed is 'Death before Dishonor'. True stubbornness can not be resolved by tact or diplomacy. (It can not be resolved by anything for that matter.) ...and that is my rambling opinions. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions LOL. I'm reading a book called 123 magic to teach parents a method of establishing discipline for small children (ages 2 to 12 - my 3+ year old in this case). The theory behind the book is that the child will do ANYTHING to get a reaction of any kind, for the simple reason that it gives them a feeling of power when they are really pretty much powerless. Any time you argue with the child, the argument can not be won simply because the POINT of the argument is not winning or losing, being right or being wrong, learning something new etc. but just that the argument itself gives a feeling of power. They are causing something to happen. An interesting perspective. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 12:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions That's exactly the point, Drew. If FirstName is a class, then that statement is invalid. But you can't tell by looking at it, now can you? Are you suggesting that you look at the way something is used in code to determine what kind of thing it is? You DO turn on Option Explicit don't you?? Have you have *NEVER* typed something like Set Whatever = 5 or Frm = Forms!MyForm Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Aug 14 09:57:13 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:57:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk In-Reply-To: <801939528.20040802093720@cactus.dk> References: <20040801235955.LYUN1916.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> Message-ID: <411DF009.18653.79EDE8@localhost> On 2 Aug 2004 at 9:37, Gustav Brock wrote: > > In future, could this be brought to my attention off-list. > > Sorry, but I had forgotten you were in charge of this. No worries. Forgiven. This time ;-) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We are Microsoft. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Aug 14 09:57:12 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:57:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB23A@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <411DF008.27837.79ECCF@localhost> On 6 Aug 2004 at 11:24, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > I do think that if you have to scroll through a previous email, to get > to it's reply, then it should have been a top post, to allow us to > read the reply, and go backwards if we want. It's not laziness that > promotes top-posting, it's forgetfulness that prompts bottom-posting. I think the lazy folks are the top posters, because they don't/won't trim what isn't necessary. The post I am replying to had 3 AccessD footers in in. Not 1 of them made it past my bottom post. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I've learned.... That the less time I have to work with, the more things I get done. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Aug 14 09:57:12 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:57:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <200408060814.i768E1Q01532@databaseadvisors.com> References: <000901c47b5d$85779c40$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <411DF008.9116.79ED29@localhost> On 6 Aug 2004 at 9:08, Max14-1 wrote: > I personally NEVER read a message that is bottom posted. If I cannot Pitty. You are missing some great info then. But it's your choice. > then I just dump it. There is no way that I personally have to time > to scroll down each and every message to see what the latest input is. Most bottom posters don't include everything. They only include the relevant material, so scrolling is usually not a problem. > I would also prefer to have ALL the history repeated - regardless of > bandwith. Again, due to time restraints, if I do take an interest in Yes, but there are folks out there that pay for all the bandwidth consumed. Also there are folks still on slow dial-ups that can't afford the time it takes to download the extra badnwidth. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore, I am perfect. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Aug 14 09:57:13 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:57:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB724@ADGSERVER> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30929096@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <411DF009.14295.79ED8D@localhost> On 6 Aug 2004 at 8:45, Bobby Heid wrote: > But I think it is a personal choice kind of thing. Most people what Yep, unless the list rules require bottom posting. > It really does not matter to me where people post. But one thing that > really pisses me off on some of the Redhat/Fedora Linux mailing lists > is that it is a giant issue that some Linux gods (as they think they > are) have deemed that bottom posting is the law. There have been many Yes, but they make the rules for their list. If you want to participate, then you have to foillow the rules. You may not agree with the rules, but you need to follow them. > So, can't we all just get along? LOL. I sure hope so. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I don't suffer from stress. I am a carrier. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Aug 14 09:57:13 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:57:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Admin: meadlaa@energyexhausts.co.uk In-Reply-To: References: <20040801235955.LYUN1916.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> Message-ID: <411DF009.8823.79EE42@localhost> On 1 Aug 2004 at 20:15, Jim Lawrence (AccessD) wrote: > Thank you for ruining your holiday...Your wife must be extremely > understanding. This didn't ruin my vacation. The %&($ crappy weather did :( -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Aug 14 09:57:13 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:57:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <00a101c47b4a$e4345dd0$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <411DF009.17749.79EEA6@localhost> On 6 Aug 2004 at 10:18, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Here's a Friday rant - is there a reason that people are replying to > emails and putting their response at the bottom of the message instead > of at the top? It's so much harder to quickly read through - you have > to scroll down and find the response. > > I know that sometimes you have to do this when you are replying to > different *parts* of the message - but otherwise - what the reason? Let me start by saying that I'm sorry for resurrecting a dead thread, but I just need to add my $0.02 worth to it, now that I'm back from vacation. The main reason for bottom posting is netiquitte. It's only since OE and OL became as wide spread as they are that top posting became popular. Most folks, when top posting (and I'm guilty of it when I post from work) don't bother to snip ANYTHING in their reply. You get multiple copies of the mailing list fotter, plus any other footer that outgoing that mail servers add. Let's take a couple of extreme examples. 1) When I got back from vacation, I had an e-mail from the list software telling me that a post was held because it was too big. It was a reply to a thread and it was OVER 40K, for 2 short lines of text. It include 10, yep TEN copies of the AccessD list footer. Not to mention the fact that the 2 short lines of reply had nothing to do with then 8 previosly FULLY quoted emails. The only one that was relevant was the most recent one. A bottom poster would have gotten rid of all the extraneous stuff. 2) Another example of this is a post in this thread. A top post that is only 3 lines long that is over 10K. That is even bigger than Stuart's large bottom post e-mail, which was mostly new content and only weighed in at 9.1K. Then On 6 Aug 2004 at 11:42, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Following the same logic - when you write a system with a continuous form > - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make them scroll all > the way down to see the latest data? Nope. It goes at the bottom. Oldest at the top. Newest at the bottom. Just like everything else I do. I need context, the older stuff, before I can understand the new stuff. > on the Internet can always be open for reasonable debate. I guess the > question is - what is the netiquette for AccessD on this topic? There isn't any netiquitte for top/bottom posting, nor is there any for trimming irelevant material. It's all left up to the individual. Then On 6 Aug 2004 at 12:31, you wrote: > the result is going to be that everyone starts bottom posting and I'll > bitterly regret raising the topic!! Never regret doing anything that causes everyone to examine why they do what they do. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca A pat on the back is only a few inches from a kick in the butt. From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Sat Aug 14 11:10:32 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 11:10:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658BD@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Jim, Are you sure that Dijkstra actually condemned GOSUB statements? Practically everyone in the computer science community knows about his groundbreaking "GOTO statements considered harmful" paper, but I have never heard this applied to GOSUBs. In some older BASIC languages, a GOSUB statement was used in a similar manner to CALL, in that it would execute a separate subroutine, and return to the exact same point in the calling routine when complete. This concept is directly in line with the tenets of structured programming, and IMHO a vital tool for modularizing code into manageable blocks. Contrast this with the "evil" GOTO statement, which allowed one to jump mindlessly from procedure to procedure, with no specific rule as to where code execution resumed. Spaghetti code, anyone? Now here's the part of the message where I'll probably stir up a pointless debate. I have used GOSUB statements for years in my AccessBasic, VB and VBA code, and only recently stopped doing so because the outdated syntax is confusing to someone unfamiliar with its use. I personally try to avoid global variables (another debate in itself), and limit the use of modular variables. In routines using several procedure-level variables, breaking an unwieldy procedure into smaller ones involves passing multiple arguments to the child routines. A possible alternative is to break code blocks into separate sections of the same routine and call it with GoSub. Not only do you have the benefit of sharing all of your procedure level variables, but the code is kept bundled with your main sub. I found this approach to be elegant and useful. Many people would pan it as clunky, outdated, and even arcane. Eventually I stopped doing it mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 3:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John: You might find this article, about the man who spent a major portion of his life condemning the GOTO and GOSUB commands, interesting. Quote: He was famously the leader in the abolition of the GOTO statement from programming. http://reference.creativesystemdesigns.com/miscellaneous.html#edsger Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From artful at rogers.com Sat Aug 14 11:37:34 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 12:37:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <052901c4821d$010f2a10$6601a8c0@rock> Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 14 11:43:37 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 12:43:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658BD@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <000001c4821d$dc662280$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> >Eventually I stopped doing it mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. Yes, but if you could get a significant portion of people to use this then.... Uhh... Never mind. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 12:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Jim, Are you sure that Dijkstra actually condemned GOSUB statements? Practically everyone in the computer science community knows about his groundbreaking "GOTO statements considered harmful" paper, but I have never heard this applied to GOSUBs. In some older BASIC languages, a GOSUB statement was used in a similar manner to CALL, in that it would execute a separate subroutine, and return to the exact same point in the calling routine when complete. This concept is directly in line with the tenets of structured programming, and IMHO a vital tool for modularizing code into manageable blocks. Contrast this with the "evil" GOTO statement, which allowed one to jump mindlessly from procedure to procedure, with no specific rule as to where code execution resumed. Spaghetti code, anyone? Now here's the part of the message where I'll probably stir up a pointless debate. I have used GOSUB statements for years in my AccessBasic, VB and VBA code, and only recently stopped doing so because the outdated syntax is confusing to someone unfamiliar with its use. I personally try to avoid global variables (another debate in itself), and limit the use of modular variables. In routines using several procedure-level variables, breaking an unwieldy procedure into smaller ones involves passing multiple arguments to the child routines. A possible alternative is to break code blocks into separate sections of the same routine and call it with GoSub. Not only do you have the benefit of sharing all of your procedure level variables, but the code is kept bundled with your main sub. I found this approach to be elegant and useful. Many people would pan it as clunky, outdated, and even arcane. Eventually I stopped doing it mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Aug 14 12:56:21 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:56:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658BD@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: Hi Brett: I must admit I never read anything directly actual panning GOSUBS and I can see you point about them being similar to function/subroutine calls. In the older coding environments there were little flexibility when it came to selection. Dijkstra's main emphasis was on pushing for structured coding. With the creation of structured languages came all the amenities and designing choices that we, as developers enjoy today. He did not condemn use of particular code statements but rather, he encouraged the development of structured development languages. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 9:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Jim, Are you sure that Dijkstra actually condemned GOSUB statements? Practically everyone in the computer science community knows about his groundbreaking "GOTO statements considered harmful" paper, but I have never heard this applied to GOSUBs. In some older BASIC languages, a GOSUB statement was used in a similar manner to CALL, in that it would execute a separate subroutine, and return to the exact same point in the calling routine when complete. This concept is directly in line with the tenets of structured programming, and IMHO a vital tool for modularizing code into manageable blocks. Contrast this with the "evil" GOTO statement, which allowed one to jump mindlessly from procedure to procedure, with no specific rule as to where code execution resumed. Spaghetti code, anyone? Now here's the part of the message where I'll probably stir up a pointless debate. I have used GOSUB statements for years in my AccessBasic, VB and VBA code, and only recently stopped doing so because the outdated syntax is confusing to someone unfamiliar with its use. I personally try to avoid global variables (another debate in itself), and limit the use of modular variables. In routines using several procedure-level variables, breaking an unwieldy procedure into smaller ones involves passing multiple arguments to the child routines. A possible alternative is to break code blocks into separate sections of the same routine and call it with GoSub. Not only do you have the benefit of sharing all of your procedure level variables, but the code is kept bundled with your main sub. I found this approach to be elegant and useful. Many people would pan it as clunky, outdated, and even arcane. Eventually I stopped doing it mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 3:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions John: You might find this article, about the man who spent a major portion of his life condemning the GOTO and GOSUB commands, interesting. Quote: He was famously the leader in the abolition of the GOTO statement from programming. http://reference.creativesystemdesigns.com/miscellaneous.html#edsger Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Sat Aug 14 14:57:41 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 14:57:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658BE@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Sure, and while I'm at it I'll also try to convince my coworkers to adopt 2-letter naming conventions. Better get some sleep this weekend. I'm gonna have a busy Monday! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions >Eventually I stopped doing it mainly for the benefit of others who have >to maintain my code. Yes, but if you could get a significant portion of people to use this then.... Uhh... Never mind. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 12:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions Jim, Are you sure that Dijkstra actually condemned GOSUB statements? Practically everyone in the computer science community knows about his groundbreaking "GOTO statements considered harmful" paper, but I have never heard this applied to GOSUBs. In some older BASIC languages, a GOSUB statement was used in a similar manner to CALL, in that it would execute a separate subroutine, and return to the exact same point in the calling routine when complete. This concept is directly in line with the tenets of structured programming, and IMHO a vital tool for modularizing code into manageable blocks. Contrast this with the "evil" GOTO statement, which allowed one to jump mindlessly from procedure to procedure, with no specific rule as to where code execution resumed. Spaghetti code, anyone? Now here's the part of the message where I'll probably stir up a pointless debate. I have used GOSUB statements for years in my AccessBasic, VB and VBA code, and only recently stopped doing so because the outdated syntax is confusing to someone unfamiliar with its use. I personally try to avoid global variables (another debate in itself), and limit the use of modular variables. In routines using several procedure-level variables, breaking an unwieldy procedure into smaller ones involves passing multiple arguments to the child routines. A possible alternative is to break code blocks into separate sections of the same routine and call it with GoSub. Not only do you have the benefit of sharing all of your procedure level variables, but the code is kept bundled with your main sub. I found this approach to be elegant and useful. Many people would pan it as clunky, outdated, and even arcane. Eventually I stopped doing it mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Aug 14 17:01:43 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 18:01:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] color palette control Message-ID: <20040814220140.IKQP8009.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Is there a generic color palette control? I'd like to just display one automatically on a form. Or, if I must, I don't mind displaying the built-in palette -- but I can't figure out how to call it. For my purposes, I think a fixed control would be better. Susan H. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Aug 14 18:47:59 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 09:47:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] color palette control In-Reply-To: <20040814220140.IKQP8009.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <411F314F.1460.9EB4884@lexacorp.com.pg> On 14 Aug 2004 at 18:01, Susan Harkins wrote: > Is there a generic color palette control? I'd like to just display one > automatically on a form. Or, if I must, I don't mind displaying the built-in > palette -- but I can't figure out how to call it. For my purposes, I think a > fixed control would be better. > The ChooseColor common dialog. If the user clicks the OK button of the dialog box, the return value is nonzero. The rgbResult member of the CHOOSECOLOR structure contains the RGB color value of the color selected by the user. Here's some sample code from APIGuide which you can get from http://www.allapi.net (Note that they don't use Hungarian and use i as a loopcounter but I can still follow their code ) Declare Function ChooseColor Lib "comdlg32.dll" Alias "ChooseColorA" (pChoosecolor As CHOOSECOLOR) As Long Private Type CHOOSECOLOR lStructSize As Long hwndOwner As Long hInstance As Long rgbResult As Long lpCustColors As String flags As Long lCustData As Long lpfnHook As Long lpTemplateName As String End Type Dim CustomColors() As Byte 'Redim the variables to store the cutstom colors ReDim CustomColors(0 To 16 * 4 - 1) As Byte Dim i As Integer For i = LBound(CustomColors) To UBound(CustomColors) CustomColors(i) = 0 Next i Private Function ShowColor() As Long Dim cc As CHOOSECOLOR Dim Custcolor(16) As Long Dim lReturn As Long 'set the structure size cc.lStructSize = Len(cc) 'Set the owner cc.hwndOwner = Me.hwnd 'set the application's instance cc.hInstance = App.hInstance 'set the custom colors (converted to Unicode) cc.lpCustColors = StrConv(CustomColors, vbUnicode) 'no extra flags cc.flags = 0 'Show the 'Select Color'-dialog If CHOOSECOLOR(cc) <> 0 Then ShowColor = cc.rgbResult CustomColors = StrConv(cc.lpCustColors, vbFromUnicode) Else ShowColor = -1 End If End Function -- Stuart From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Aug 14 19:00:30 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 20:00:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] color palette control In-Reply-To: <411F314F.1460.9EB4884@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20040815000027.WXGR1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Well, I hadn't even considered an API. ;) Thank you Stuart -- I'll take a look. Susan H. On 14 Aug 2004 at 18:01, Susan Harkins wrote: > Is there a generic color palette control? I'd like to just display one > automatically on a form. Or, if I must, I don't mind displaying the > built-in palette -- but I can't figure out how to call it. For my > purposes, I think a fixed control would be better. > The ChooseColor common dialog. If the user clicks the OK button of the dialog box, the return value is nonzero. The rgbResult member of the CHOOSECOLOR structure contains the RGB color value of the color selected by the user. Here's some sample code from APIGuide which you can get from http://www.allapi.net (Note that they don't use Hungarian and use i as a loopcounter but I can still follow their code ) Declare Function ChooseColor Lib "comdlg32.dll" Alias "ChooseColorA" (pChoosecolor As CHOOSECOLOR) As Long Private Type CHOOSECOLOR lStructSize As Long hwndOwner As Long hInstance As Long rgbResult As Long lpCustColors As String flags As Long lCustData As Long lpfnHook As Long lpTemplateName As String End Type Dim CustomColors() As Byte 'Redim the variables to store the cutstom colors ReDim CustomColors(0 To 16 * 4 - 1) As Byte Dim i As Integer For i = LBound(CustomColors) To UBound(CustomColors) CustomColors(i) = 0 Next i Private Function ShowColor() As Long Dim cc As CHOOSECOLOR Dim Custcolor(16) As Long Dim lReturn As Long 'set the structure size cc.lStructSize = Len(cc) 'Set the owner cc.hwndOwner = Me.hwnd 'set the application's instance cc.hInstance = App.hInstance 'set the custom colors (converted to Unicode) cc.lpCustColors = StrConv(CustomColors, vbUnicode) 'no extra flags cc.flags = 0 'Show the 'Select Color'-dialog If CHOOSECOLOR(cc) <> 0 Then ShowColor = cc.rgbResult CustomColors = StrConv(cc.lpCustColors, vbFromUnicode) Else ShowColor = -1 End If End Function -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcaro at bigpond.net.au Sun Aug 15 02:20:34 2004 From: mcaro at bigpond.net.au (Martin Caro) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 17:20:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OutputTo Message-ID: <000e01c48298$5b3b0150$0100000a@mitmaster> Hi Folks Just having some syntax issues with applying a filter to the query I'm using in the following: stDocName = "qryLocations" FilePath = "C:\temp\LocationReport.XLS" ExportFilter = Me.Filter DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputQuery, stDocName, acFormatXLS, FilePath, True I need to apply a filter string which I have in a global variable ExportFilter - I've tried setting the query filter property and inserting the filter into the DoCmd line but without success so far. Any suggestions? Martin From tortise at paradise.net.nz Sun Aug 15 05:51:25 2004 From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 22:51:25 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! SOLVED - maybe!!! References: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <1196581313.20040316100933@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <0be201c482b5$cff92680$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> Dear Gustav et al This problem has been unsolved for ages, I have turned my attention to it again. It seems to have been fixed by simply copying the memo field contents into a new memo field (same table) and addressing this new memo field instead. Many memo records apparently locked are again free to be saved(!) The old memos are then removed. I am guessing but something was corrupt in the page locking of some of the memo records, that a database repair would not fix... Hope this helps someone else one day.... Kind regards David Hingston Director Chequers Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand. http://www.cheqsoft.com => Engines2go - faster Internet searching => MP3Detective - find your MP3's fast! => Break Reminder - for safe and efficient PC use => TimesOwn - international clock and time difference calculator => Clipboard Express Pro - drag n drop database saves serious time ____________________________________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachment (s) is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee's) or if you receive this email in error then any distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by return email and then delete the message from your computer. Thank you for your assistance. ____________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustav Brock To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! Hi David I have a client fighting with this too. Could you be a little more specific on your solution, please? What are you refreshing and when? Which of the advices mentioned in the forum discussion did you implement? As I read it, you update (save) the record at the BeforeUpdate event of the memo field, then Cancel the update and refresh (requery?) the record? /gustav > Thanks John, > That gave me enough to resolve it. > Also Ref http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/access/access605200.html > For anyone else simply doing a refresh unlocks it! > Kind Regards > David > From: John W. Colby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:38 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > Memo fields are treated differently than the rest of the fields in a record. > They are simply pointers out to a storage area where the actual memo is > stored. Memos still have the "page locking" issue where if another user is > editing another memo that resides in the same physical page as your memo, > yours will be locked. > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tortise > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > Hi > I have a database which intermittently reports memo fields as being locked. > However they are not! Editing the memo field it refuses to update on > attempted save, however text fields still update fine. (!) It is a database > from A2K, that went to A97, back to A2k and now is running (converted) in > A2k3. (Over time!) Repair and compaction makes no difference, neither does > logging off and back on to the windows session. > The same behaviour is exhibited when editing the table as it is from a form. > I'm stumped! > As always any guidance is appreciated. > Kind Regards > David -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sun Aug 15 12:21:55 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:21:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox Message-ID: <00e501c482ec$5d696ee0$6601a8c0@rock> I'm having a senior moment. Given a form containing three controls: txtDateFrom - starting date txtDateTo - ending date lstDates - to contain one row for all dates between from and to inclusive I want to manufacture all dates between the start and end date and populate the listbox with same. I forget how to do it. I'm used to grabbing data using SQL etc. and I suppose I could just build a table containing loads of dates and query that, but I'm wondering how to manufacture the listbox rows instead. Will someone kindly nudge me in the right direction? TIA, Arthur From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 15 12:41:36 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:41:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] add-in key Message-ID: <20040815174132.FQNG1788.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Does anyone know the registry key for add-in's using Windows XP and Access 2003? The best documentation lists HKEY_CURRENT_ACCESS_PROFILE, but I don't have this key. Susan H. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 15 12:47:20 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:47:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox In-Reply-To: <00e501c482ec$5d696ee0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040815174716.FRTW1788.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Arthur, you could create a Recordset populated with the results of your query and then set the list box control's Recordset property to the same. Susan H. I'm having a senior moment. Given a form containing three controls: txtDateFrom - starting date txtDateTo - ending date lstDates - to contain one row for all dates between from and to inclusive I want to manufacture all dates between the start and end date and populate the listbox with same. I forget how to do it. I'm used to grabbing data using SQL etc. and I suppose I could just build a table containing loads of dates and query that, but I'm wondering how to manufacture the listbox rows instead. Will someone kindly nudge me in the right direction? From starkey at wanadoo.nl Sun Aug 15 13:18:20 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:18:20 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox In-Reply-To: <20040815174716.FRTW1788.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <20040815181606.ABBD05ACCE@smtp8.wanadoo.nl> Hi, Use a function for the recordsource and a loop in this function using dateadd to build all dates between 'From' and 'To' making use of static variables:-) Access help has an example of how to built the specific function for this purpose. At least 97/2000 did I believe if not I'll have to look it up for you. Regards, Eric Starkenburg Starkenburg Office Solutions -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens Susan Harkins Verzonden: zondag 15 augustus 2004 19:47 Aan: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Onderwerp: RE: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox Arthur, you could create a Recordset populated with the results of your query and then set the list box control's Recordset property to the same. Susan H. I'm having a senior moment. Given a form containing three controls: txtDateFrom - starting date txtDateTo - ending date lstDates - to contain one row for all dates between from and to inclusive I want to manufacture all dates between the start and end date and populate the listbox with same. I forget how to do it. I'm used to grabbing data using SQL etc. and I suppose I could just build a table containing loads of dates and query that, but I'm wondering how to manufacture the listbox rows instead. Will someone kindly nudge me in the right direction? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _____ avast! Antivirus : Uitgaande bericht is niet besmet. Virus Gegevensbestand (VPS): 0433-3, 13-08-2004 Getest op: 15-8-2004 20:18:20 avast! auteursrecht (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 15 13:39:19 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 14:39:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox In-Reply-To: <20040815181606.ABBD05ACCE@smtp8.wanadoo.nl> Message-ID: <20040815183915.FJQM1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> In rereading your question Arthur, I think the problem's different from what I first thought -- you need to create those dates? You're not just querying existing data? Susan H. I want to manufacture all dates between the start and end date and populate the listbox with same. I forget how to do it. I'm used to grabbing data using SQL etc. and I suppose I could just build a table containing loads of dates and query that, but I'm wondering how to manufacture the listbox rows instead. From dwaters at usinternet.com Sun Aug 15 14:50:53 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 14:50:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close Message-ID: <000b01c48301$2c8339e0$de1811d8@danwaters> If you have a FE/BE setup, and you've selected Compact on Close, then the last user who exits will trigger a compact on the FE mdb. But, the BE does not compact. This makes sense since the BE is not opened, and is simply acting as a repository for data. Has anyone set up a routine to compact the BE on close? >From within the shutdown code in the FE, I can detect the last user, then use the DBEngine.CompactDatabase function to compact the BE with a new name. Then delete the original BE, then change the name of the compacted BE to the original name, then finally close the FE. Any words of wisdom? If everyone's not too tired from pulverizing Naming Conventions! ;-) Thanks! Dan Waters PS - I very consistently use the dfw naming conventions. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 15 15:40:20 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:40:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] add-in key In-Reply-To: <20040815174132.FQNG1788.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <20040815204021.QXQD14988.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I finally found the entry in the registry, but when I try to run it I get an error but it is in the registry and the mda is compiled. I'm stumped. Susan H. Does anyone know the registry key for add-in's using Windows XP and Access 2003? The best documentation lists HKEY_CURRENT_ACCESS_PROFILE, but I don't have this key. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Aug 15 16:21:28 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:21:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox In-Reply-To: <00e501c482ec$5d696ee0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <41206077.30393.130B3E@lexacorp.com.pg> On 15 Aug 2004 at 13:21, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > I want to manufacture all dates between the start and end date and > populate the listbox with same. I forget how to do it. I'm used to > grabbing data using SQL etc. and I suppose I could just build a table > containing loads of dates and query that, but I'm wondering how to > manufacture the listbox rows instead. > > Here's one way: Private Function FillList(StartDate As Date, EndDate As Date) As Long Dim dteLoop As Date Dim strListSource As String For dteLoop = StartDate To EndDate strListSource = strListSource & ";" & dteLoop Next strListSource = Mid$(strListSource, 2) lstDates.RowSource = strListSource End Function-- Stuart From artful at rogers.com Sun Aug 15 16:24:33 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 17:24:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox In-Reply-To: <20040815183915.FJQM1786.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <011301c4830e$4230c610$6601a8c0@rock> Turns out the easy way to go was to create a Dates table and a form that generates rows in said table. It looks for Dmax() and offers that as the starting row, then accepts an End date and manufactures rows to suit. Then I can just (from another form) query the Dates table and present the multi-select listbox. Turned out straightforward once I translated previous code from SQL back to MDB. After that it was a piece of cake and works pretty well (unless the user wants to select 100 dates or so; then it's problematic but I'm handing that blame to William Gates). A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 2:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox In rereading your question Arthur, I think the problem's different from what I first thought -- you need to create those dates? You're not just querying existing data? Susan H. I want to manufacture all dates between the start and end date and populate the listbox with same. I forget how to do it. I'm used to grabbing data using SQL etc. and I suppose I could just build a table containing loads of dates and query that, but I'm wondering how to manufacture the listbox rows instead. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 16 01:59:19 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:59:19 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <052901c4821d$010f2a10$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <006501c4835e$8da3c020$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I always enjoyed the OT Friday and Friday Humour. Stopped doing it myself when I got some snotty comments. Good to see a return Arthur. More, I say. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: 14 August 2004 17:38 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday > > > Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so > excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 16 04:51:47 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:51:47 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! SOLVED - maybe!!! In-Reply-To: <0be201c482b5$cff92680$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> References: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <1196581313.20040316100933@cactus.dk> <0be201c482b5$cff92680$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> Message-ID: <1678926926.20040816115147@cactus.dk> Thanks David, I'll make a note on that. /gustav > Dear Gustav et al > This problem has been unsolved for ages, I have turned my attention to it again. > It seems to have been fixed by simply copying the memo field contents into a new memo field (same table) and addressing this new memo field instead. Many memo records apparently locked are again > free to be saved(!) The old memos are then removed. > I am guessing but something was corrupt in the page locking of some of the memo records, that a database repair would not fix... > Hope this helps someone else one day.... > Kind regards > David Hingston > Director > Chequers Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand. > http://www.cheqsoft.com --- > I have a client fighting with this too. > Could you be a little more specific on your solution, please? > What are you refreshing and when? > Which of the advices mentioned in the forum discussion did you > implement? > As I read it, you update (save) the record at the BeforeUpdate event > of the memo field, then Cancel the update and refresh (requery?) the > record? > /gustav > > Thanks John, > > That gave me enough to resolve it. > > Also Ref http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/access/access605200.html > > For anyone else simply doing a refresh unlocks it! > > Kind Regards > > David > > From: John W. Colby > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:38 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > Memo fields are treated differently than the rest of the fields in a record. > > They are simply pointers out to a storage area where the actual memo is > > stored. Memos still have the "page locking" issue where if another user is > > editing another memo that resides in the same physical page as your memo, > > yours will be locked. > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tortise > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > Hi > > I have a database which intermittently reports memo fields as being locked. > > However they are not! Editing the memo field it refuses to update on > > attempted save, however text fields still update fine. (!) It is a database > > from A2K, that went to A97, back to A2k and now is running (converted) in > > A2k3. (Over time!) Repair and compaction makes no difference, neither does > > logging off and back on to the windows session. > > The same behaviour is exhibited when editing the table as it is from a form. > > I'm stumped! > > As always any guidance is appreciated. > > Kind Regards > > David From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 16 06:22:37 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:22:37 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Manually populate a listbox In-Reply-To: <00e501c482ec$5d696ee0$6601a8c0@rock> References: <00e501c482ec$5d696ee0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <7514377213.20040816132237@cactus.dk> Hi Arthur > I'm having a senior moment. Given a form containing three controls: > txtDateFrom - starting date > txtDateTo - ending date > lstDates - to contain one row for all dates between from and to > inclusive > I want to manufacture all dates between the start and end date and > populate the listbox with same. I forget how to do it. I'm used to > grabbing data using SQL etc. and I suppose I could just build a table > containing loads of dates and query that, but I'm wondering how to > manufacture the listbox rows instead. > Will someone kindly nudge me in the right direction? That's typically what i listbox callback function is for; no tables, no nothing, just a simple function: Private Function ListDaysInInterval( _ ctl As Control, _ lngID As Long, _ lngRow As Long, _ lngCol As Long, _ intCode As Integer) As Variant Static datDateFirst As Date Static strFormat As String Static lngDates As Long Dim varDateFirst As Variant Dim varDateLast As Variant Dim varReturn As Variant Select Case intCode Case acLBInitialize strFormat = Me!txtDateFrom.Format varDateFirst = Me!txtDateFrom.Value varDateLast = Me!txtDateTo.Value ' Only initialize if two dates are present. varReturn = IsDate(varDateFirst) And IsDate(varDateLast) If varReturn = True Then datDateFirst = CDate(varDateFirst) lngDates = DateDiff("d", datDateFirst, CDate(varDateLast)) + 1 Else lngDates = 0 End If Case acLBOpen varReturn = Timer ' Autogenerated unique ID. Case acLBGetRowCount ' Get rows. varReturn = lngDates ' Set number of rows. Case acLBGetColumnCount ' Get columns. varReturn = 1 ' Set number of columns. Case acLBGetColumnWidth ' Get column width. varReturn = -1 ' Use default width. Case acLBGetValue ' Get the data. ' Calculate dates. varReturn = DateAdd("d", lngRow, datDateFirst) Case acLBGetFormat ' Format the data. varReturn = strFormat ' Use format of first control. Case acLBEnd ' Do something when form with listbox closes or ' listbox is requeried. End Select ListDaysInInterval = varReturn End Function /gustav From djkr at msn.com Mon Aug 16 08:55:05 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:55:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <411DF009.17749.79EEA6@localhost> Message-ID: <014b01c48398$a276aa50$3500a8c0@dabsight> I put records where the clients want/need them. And there are cases where that's at the top. Period. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Bryan Carbonnell > Sent: 14 August 2004 15:57 > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message > <---snip---> > Then On 6 Aug 2004 at 11:42, Kath Pelletti wrote: > > > Following the same logic - when you write a system with a > continuous > > form > > - do you display the *latest* records at the top - or make > them scroll all > > the way down to see the latest data? > > Nope. It goes at the bottom. Oldest at the top. Newest at the bottom. > Just like everything else I do. I need context, the older stuff, > before I can understand the new stuff. > <---snip---> > -- > Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca > A pat on the back is only a few inches from a kick in the butt. From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Mon Aug 16 09:30:44 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:30:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B60@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I need to assign a number for a document that contains the discipline number, the year, and a new task number. I can't seem to get the year part to work - how do I have it add the year to a number (and it must change every year too)? The year would come after the discipline so the number would be: EVAL-123-04-001. EvalNo: "EVAL " & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") Virginia From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 16 09:51:56 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:51:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B60@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <20040816145158.ROPY1756.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You mean the current year? EvalNo: "EVAL-" & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Year(Now)) & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") Susan H. I need to assign a number for a document that contains the discipline number, the year, and a new task number. I can't seem to get the year part to work - how do I have it add the year to a number (and it must change every year too)? The year would come after the discipline so the number would be: EVAL-123-04-001. EvalNo: "EVAL " & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Mon Aug 16 09:52:39 2004 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:52:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number Message-ID: EvalNo: "EVAL"&"-"&[DisciplineNo]&Format("yy",[YourDateField])&"-"&Format([EVTas kNum],"000") Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: Hollis,Virginia [mailto:HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:31 AM To: 'accessD at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number I need to assign a number for a document that contains the discipline number, the year, and a new task number. I can't seem to get the year part to work - how do I have it add the year to a number (and it must change every year too)? The year would come after the discipline so the number would be: EVAL-123-04-001. EvalNo: "EVAL " & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 16 10:02:46 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:02:46 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B60@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B60@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <19827586296.20040816170246@cactus.dk> Hi Virginia You can pull all this into the Format() function: EvalNo: Format([DisciplineNo],"\E\V\A\L\-000") & _ Format(Date,"\-yy") & _ Format([EVTaskNum],"\-000") or Format([DisciplineNo],"\E\V\A\L\-0") & _ Format(Date,"\-yy") & _ Format([EVTaskNum],"\-000") /gustav > I need to assign a number for a document that contains the discipline > number, the year, and a new task number. I can't seem to get the year part > to work - how do I have it add the year to a number (and it must change > every year too)? The year would come after the discipline so the number > would be: EVAL-123-04-001. > EvalNo: "EVAL " & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Mon Aug 16 10:14:51 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:14:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B62@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Yes, the current year, but I need the year formatted with just 2 digits. I tried this & get 2004, I just need 04. ********************** You mean the current year? EvalNo: "EVAL-" & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Year(Now)) & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") Susan H. I need to assign a number for a document that contains the discipline number, the year, and a new task number. I can't seem to get the year part to work - how do I have it add the year to a number (and it must change every year too)? The year would come after the discipline so the number would be: EVAL-123-04-001. EvalNo: "EVAL " & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Aug 16 10:42:48 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:42:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions - GOSUB = CALL? References: Message-ID: <00f101c483a7$af0e8d00$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Is GOSUB the same As CALL in VBA? I CALL a lot of subroutines. (I know I can drop the CALL but it reads more clearer when I use it. ) Is this bad form? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > Hi Brett: > > I must admit I never read anything directly actual panning GOSUBS and I can > see you point about them being similar to function/subroutine calls. In the > older coding environments there were little flexibility when it came to > selection. > > Dijkstra's main emphasis was on pushing for structured coding. With the > creation of structured languages came all the amenities and designing > choices that we, as developers enjoy today. He did not condemn use of > particular code statements but rather, he encouraged the development of > structured development languages. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 9:11 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Jim, > Are you sure that Dijkstra actually condemned GOSUB statements? > Practically everyone in the computer science community knows about his > groundbreaking "GOTO statements considered harmful" paper, but I have > never heard this applied to GOSUBs. > > In some older BASIC languages, a GOSUB statement was used in a similar > manner to CALL, in that it would execute a separate subroutine, and > return to the exact same point in the calling routine when complete. > This concept is directly in line with the tenets of structured > programming, and IMHO a vital tool for modularizing code into manageable > blocks. Contrast this with the "evil" GOTO statement, which allowed one > to jump mindlessly from procedure to procedure, with no specific rule as > to where code execution resumed. Spaghetti code, anyone? > > Now here's the part of the message where I'll probably stir up a > pointless debate. I have used GOSUB statements for years in my > AccessBasic, VB and VBA code, and only recently stopped doing so because > the outdated syntax is confusing to someone unfamiliar with its use. > > I personally try to avoid global variables (another debate in itself), > and limit the use of modular variables. In routines using several > procedure-level variables, breaking an unwieldy procedure into smaller > ones involves passing multiple arguments to the child routines. A > possible alternative is to break code blocks into separate sections of > the same routine and call it with GoSub. Not only do you have the > benefit of sharing all of your procedure level variables, but the code > is kept bundled with your main sub. > > I found this approach to be elegant and useful. Many people would pan > it as clunky, outdated, and even arcane. Eventually I stopped doing it > mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 3:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > John: > > You might find this article, about the man who spent a major portion of > his life condemning the GOTO and GOSUB commands, interesting. Quote: He > was famously the leader in the abolition of the GOTO statement from > programming. > > http://reference.creativesystemdesigns.com/miscellaneous.html#edsger > > Jim > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---------------------------------------- > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the > taking > of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. > If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are > prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 11:09:34 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:09:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A7@main2.marlow.com> Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon Aug 16 11:38:09 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:38:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions - GOSUB = CALL? Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658C1@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> No. GOSUB redirects program execution to a label in the same procedure. CALL redirects it to another procedure entirely. In older versions of BASIC (e.g. the one that shipped with my good ol' 64), GOSUB jumped to another line in the program with the expectation that it would eventually encounter a RETURN statement to bring it back to the original routine. GOSUB is acceptable from a structured programming standpoint, but not widely used in VB(A) (don't know why, but it's obviously not a popular keyword and has been removed from VB.NET). Nothing wrong with the CALL keyword (although it has also been discontinued in VB.NET since all procedures are called with parentheses). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions - GOSUB = CALL? Is GOSUB the same As CALL in VBA? I CALL a lot of subroutines. (I know I can drop the CALL but it reads more clearer when I use it. ) Is this bad form? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > Hi Brett: > > I must admit I never read anything directly actual panning GOSUBS and I can > see you point about them being similar to function/subroutine calls. In the > older coding environments there were little flexibility when it came to > selection. > > Dijkstra's main emphasis was on pushing for structured coding. With the > creation of structured languages came all the amenities and designing > choices that we, as developers enjoy today. He did not condemn use of > particular code statements but rather, he encouraged the development of > structured development languages. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 9:11 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Jim, > Are you sure that Dijkstra actually condemned GOSUB statements? > Practically everyone in the computer science community knows about his > groundbreaking "GOTO statements considered harmful" paper, but I have > never heard this applied to GOSUBs. > > In some older BASIC languages, a GOSUB statement was used in a similar > manner to CALL, in that it would execute a separate subroutine, and > return to the exact same point in the calling routine when complete. > This concept is directly in line with the tenets of structured > programming, and IMHO a vital tool for modularizing code into manageable > blocks. Contrast this with the "evil" GOTO statement, which allowed one > to jump mindlessly from procedure to procedure, with no specific rule as > to where code execution resumed. Spaghetti code, anyone? > > Now here's the part of the message where I'll probably stir up a > pointless debate. I have used GOSUB statements for years in my > AccessBasic, VB and VBA code, and only recently stopped doing so because > the outdated syntax is confusing to someone unfamiliar with its use. > > I personally try to avoid global variables (another debate in itself), > and limit the use of modular variables. In routines using several > procedure-level variables, breaking an unwieldy procedure into smaller > ones involves passing multiple arguments to the child routines. A > possible alternative is to break code blocks into separate sections of > the same routine and call it with GoSub. Not only do you have the > benefit of sharing all of your procedure level variables, but the code > is kept bundled with your main sub. > > I found this approach to be elegant and useful. Many people would pan > it as clunky, outdated, and even arcane. Eventually I stopped doing it > mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 3:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > John: > > You might find this article, about the man who spent a major portion of > his life condemning the GOTO and GOSUB commands, interesting. Quote: He > was famously the leader in the abolition of the GOTO statement from > programming. > > http://reference.creativesystemdesigns.com/miscellaneous.html#edsger > > Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon Aug 16 11:40:13 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:40:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658C2@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From JHewson at karta.com Mon Aug 16 12:02:05 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:02:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1D6@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> At the risk of sounding uninformed (which I am most of the time), what is Curling? My first thought was something that ladies do with their hair. A sport? I haven't seen snow for a long time, so I'm not sure if Hockey is really a sport. I do love Canada though, brings back memories. My wife and I went camping in Banff on our honeymoon, 28 years ago this month. Absolutely gorgeous! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Mon Aug 16 12:01:31 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:01:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Jeffrey F Demulling/MN/USB is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 08/16/2004 and will not return until 08/17/2004. I will respond to your message when I return. Please contact Greg Paoli (651-495-3925) if you have an urgent matter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ============================================================================== From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 12:08:25 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:08:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A9@main2.marlow.com> LOL. Oh, it's hard to forget the neighbors to the north.....they gave us their own bacon, they have peculiarities about having two official languages, and quite frankly, all of their talent moved here, cause half of Hollywood is from Canada! LOL! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 12:22:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:22:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2AB@main2.marlow.com> Curling is a game done on an ice rink. There is a HUGE puck (I think it's about the size of a basketball, but is closer in shape to a hockey puck). Instead of hitting the puck, however, the teams have brooms, to sweep snow around, to try and guide the puck. Let me see if there is a website on it...I'm sure there is... http://www.curlingbasics.com There's quite a bit to the game (apparently the Canadians have a lot of time on their hands........) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday At the risk of sounding uninformed (which I am most of the time), what is Curling? My first thought was something that ladies do with their hair. A sport? I haven't seen snow for a long time, so I'm not sure if Hockey is really a sport. I do love Canada though, brings back memories. My wife and I went camping in Banff on our honeymoon, 28 years ago this month. Absolutely gorgeous! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Mon Aug 16 12:47:21 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:47:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658C2@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <021201c483b9$156c8b40$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Another dumb American story (sadly true): An aquaintance of mine was from India, and had spent time in the UK before moving with her family to Houston. She started attending a local Houston high school, and one day there a curious fellow student started asking her questions: "So, where'd you live before you came to Houston?" "In England." "Oh. Where's that?" "Umm, east of here." "Oh really ... what language do they speak?" At that point, she broke off the conversation. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Aug 16 13:03:21 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:03:21 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning References: <021201c483b9$156c8b40$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: <001701c483bb$51bb2a00$0100a8c0@Martin> Someone mentioned a blog highlighting issues with this. I REALLY NEED that address.. My SQL 2000 server is trashed becasue of the install of Beta 2. So be warned folks - I installed 2005 Express yesterday and EM and QA now dont work at all. ISQL is also out. Martin From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Aug 16 13:04:09 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:04:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <021201c483b9$156c8b40$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: <007501c483bb$6e1c7be0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Had a similar experience a few years ago holidaying in Key Largo. Went out on a snorkelling boat with my kids and a few other familes of different nationalities. Anyway the young (18ish) lad assisting on the boat struck up conversation with a couple of Italian girls who spoke good English. This was in my hearing, no word of a lie. Went something like: "Where you from?" "Italy" "Where's that?" "Europe" "What language do people there speak?" "Well each country has its own language" "Wow, neat" But that's not a jibe at antyone. It was just funny, and quite charming in a way. Anyway, plenty of English people don't know where the next town is. No country has a monopoly on ignorance. But, look it's not Friday. I shouldn't be doing this, and neither should you . -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert > Sent: 16 August 2004 18:47 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > > > Another dumb American story (sadly true): > > An aquaintance of mine was from India, and had spent time in > the UK before moving with her family to Houston. She started > attending a local Houston high school, and one day there a > curious fellow student started asking her > questions: > > "So, where'd you live before you came to Houston?" > > "In England." > > "Oh. Where's that?" > > "Umm, east of here." > > "Oh really ... what language do they speak?" > > At that point, she broke off the conversation. > > -Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com] > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > > Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the > north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who > thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't > show any other land bordering it. > > And besides, we have Curling too! > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 13:07:18 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:07:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: in query, I have an existing Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] I have a field called Female that can be True or False. What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: FirstName (Surname) MarrName Jane (Smith) Doe otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John Doe Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different scenario of having the married name last in parens, like Jane Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] being F to [Female] being True) IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & ")",""),"") But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of this, or not enough of that or undefined functions I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no longer needed since I want the () around the surname of females, and surname is always filled in. Here is my most recent attempt without regards to the males: Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & ")" & [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax errors, but does give me Undefined Function IIF in expression. I assume that has something to do with defining the "else" portion. So, what do I need to add? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Aug 16 13:17:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:17:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming Conventions - GOSUB = CALL? Message-ID: I think it fell into disfavor because the principle of structured programming is one operation per routine and GOSUBs can be replaced with calls to separate routines as long as you pass the arguments required ByRef or pass them back as a result. As it functions in VBA, it means tightly coupled code, which has also fallen into disfavor. I can remember using it back in Access 2.0 but I don't recall ever using it since. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions - GOSUB = CALL? No. GOSUB redirects program execution to a label in the same procedure. CALL redirects it to another procedure entirely. In older versions of BASIC (e.g. the one that shipped with my good ol' 64), GOSUB jumped to another line in the program with the expectation that it would eventually encounter a RETURN statement to bring it back to the original routine. GOSUB is acceptable from a structured programming standpoint, but not widely used in VB(A) (don't know why, but it's obviously not a popular keyword and has been removed from VB.NET). Nothing wrong with the CALL keyword (although it has also been discontinued in VB.NET since all procedures are called with parentheses). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming Conventions - GOSUB = CALL? Is GOSUB the same As CALL in VBA? I CALL a lot of subroutines. (I know I can drop the CALL but it reads more clearer when I use it. ) Is this bad form? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > Hi Brett: > > I must admit I never read anything directly actual panning GOSUBS and I can > see you point about them being similar to function/subroutine calls. In the > older coding environments there were little flexibility when it came to > selection. > > Dijkstra's main emphasis was on pushing for structured coding. With the > creation of structured languages came all the amenities and designing > choices that we, as developers enjoy today. He did not condemn use of > particular code statements but rather, he encouraged the development of > structured development languages. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 9:11 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > > Jim, > Are you sure that Dijkstra actually condemned GOSUB statements? > Practically everyone in the computer science community knows about his > groundbreaking "GOTO statements considered harmful" paper, but I have > never heard this applied to GOSUBs. > > In some older BASIC languages, a GOSUB statement was used in a similar > manner to CALL, in that it would execute a separate subroutine, and > return to the exact same point in the calling routine when complete. > This concept is directly in line with the tenets of structured > programming, and IMHO a vital tool for modularizing code into manageable > blocks. Contrast this with the "evil" GOTO statement, which allowed one > to jump mindlessly from procedure to procedure, with no specific rule as > to where code execution resumed. Spaghetti code, anyone? > > Now here's the part of the message where I'll probably stir up a > pointless debate. I have used GOSUB statements for years in my > AccessBasic, VB and VBA code, and only recently stopped doing so because > the outdated syntax is confusing to someone unfamiliar with its use. > > I personally try to avoid global variables (another debate in itself), > and limit the use of modular variables. In routines using several > procedure-level variables, breaking an unwieldy procedure into smaller > ones involves passing multiple arguments to the child routines. A > possible alternative is to break code blocks into separate sections of > the same routine and call it with GoSub. Not only do you have the > benefit of sharing all of your procedure level variables, but the code > is kept bundled with your main sub. > > I found this approach to be elegant and useful. Many people would pan > it as clunky, outdated, and even arcane. Eventually I stopped doing it > mainly for the benefit of others who have to maintain my code. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > (AccessD) > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 3:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Naming Conventions > > John: > > You might find this article, about the man who spent a major portion of > his life condemning the GOTO and GOSUB commands, interesting. Quote: He > was famously the leader in the abolition of the GOTO statement from > programming. > > http://reference.creativesystemdesigns.com/miscellaneous.html#edsger > > Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Mon Aug 16 13:22:40 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:22:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1D8@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Kathryn, How about this: Name: FirstName & IF([Female]="Yes", "(" & [Surname] & ") " & [MarrName], [Surname]) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem in query, I have an existing Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] I have a field called Female that can be True or False. What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: FirstName (Surname) MarrName Jane (Smith) Doe otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John Doe Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different scenario of having the married name last in parens, like Jane Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] being F to [Female] being True) IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & ")",""),"") But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of this, or not enough of that or undefined functions I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no longer needed since I want the () around the surname of females, and surname is always filled in. Here is my most recent attempt without regards to the males: Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & ")" & [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax errors, but does give me Undefined Function IIF in expression. I assume that has something to do with defining the "else" portion. So, what do I need to add? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Mon Aug 16 13:29:40 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:29:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem Message-ID: Try IIF([FEMALE], [FirstName] & " (" & [SURNAME] & ") " & [MarrName], [FirstName] & [MarrName] ) Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > KathrynAtGwens > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 02:07 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > in query, I have an existing > Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] > > I have a field called Female that can be True or False. > > What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: > FirstName (Surname) MarrName > Jane (Smith) Doe > > otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John Doe > > Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different > scenario of having the married name last in parens, like Jane > Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] > being F to [Female] being True) > IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & > ")",""),"") > > But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I > can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of > this, or not enough of that or undefined functions > > I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no > longer needed since I want the () around the surname of > females, and surname is always filled in. Here is my most > recent attempt without regards to the males: > > Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & > ")" & [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax > errors, but does give me Undefined Function IIF in > expression. I assume that has something to do with defining > the "else" portion. > > So, what do I need to add? > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Aug 16 13:33:31 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:33:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT SQL Server Express - More References: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1D8@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: <000b01c483bf$887dbb30$0100a8c0@Martin> The problem seems to be when you uninstall one of the beta versions. It breaks the EM and does something to DMO. Still trying to work out excatly what its ripping out of the computer. I have managed to get most of EM back up and running and QA is almost there. Just be careful with this if your installing it on a development and back up everything first. Martin From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Mon Aug 16 13:40:14 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:40:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem Message-ID: Personally, I would have set up the database as FirstName, MaidenName, Surname So that Surname is always the last name used. Then you could probably do FirstName + iif(FEMALE, " ( " + MaidenName + ") " ) + Surname Otherwise it would still be IIF ( FirstName & " (" & MaidenName & ") " & Surname, FirstName & " " & SurName ) Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > KathrynAtGwens > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 02:07 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > in query, I have an existing > Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] > > I have a field called Female that can be True or False. > > What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: > FirstName (Surname) MarrName > Jane (Smith) Doe > > otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John Doe > > Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different > scenario of having the married name last in parens, like Jane > Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] > being F to [Female] being True) > IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & > ")",""),"") > > But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I > can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of > this, or not enough of that or undefined functions > > I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no > longer needed since I want the () around the surname of > females, and surname is always filled in. Here is my most > recent attempt without regards to the males: > > Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & > ")" & [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax > errors, but does give me Undefined Function IIF in > expression. I assume that has something to do with defining > the "else" portion. > > So, what do I need to add? > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From JHewson at karta.com Mon Aug 16 13:43:11 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:43:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1DA@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Kathryn, On another thread, there was a discussion of code review. I did a code review of my own suggestion and saw that I left something out. The correct suggestion: Name: FirstName & " " & IIF([Female]="Yes", "(" & [Surname] & ") " & [MarrName], [Surname]) The second parenthesis does have a space after it to accommodate the space before the MarrName. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 1:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem Kathryn, How about this: Name: FirstName & IF([Female]="Yes", "(" & [Surname] & ") " & [MarrName], [Surname]) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem in query, I have an existing Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] I have a field called Female that can be True or False. What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: FirstName (Surname) MarrName Jane (Smith) Doe otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John Doe Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different scenario of having the married name last in parens, like Jane Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] being F to [Female] being True) IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & ")",""),"") But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of this, or not enough of that or undefined functions I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no longer needed since I want the () around the surname of females, and surname is always filled in. Here is my most recent attempt without regards to the males: Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & ")" & [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax errors, but does give me Undefined Function IIF in expression. I assume that has something to do with defining the "else" portion. So, what do I need to add? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 13:37:38 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:37:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem In-Reply-To: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1D8@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: Progress but still no cigar. I tried both: Expr1: [FirstName] & IIF([Female]="Yes","(" & [Surname] & ") " & [MarrName],[Surname]) and Name: [FirstName] & IIF([Female]="Yes","(" & [Surname] & ") " & [MarrName],[Surname]) and get #Error in the field. But at least I don't get the Undefined Function IIF (Note that you typed IF - which gave me the Undefined Function IIF, so I *did* change that typo) I also tried True instead of Yes with same #Error So we are getting there - what next? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > > Kathryn, > How about this: > > Name: FirstName & IF([Female]="Yes", "(" & [Surname] & ") " & > [MarrName], [Surname]) > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 1:07 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > in query, I have an existing > Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] > > I have a field called Female that can be True or False. > > What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: > FirstName (Surname) MarrName > Jane (Smith) Doe > > otherwise (if Female is False) then I want > FirstName Surname > John Doe > > Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different scenario > of having the married name last in parens, like > Jane Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] > being F to [Female] being True) > IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & ")",""),"") > > But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I > can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of this, > or not enough of that or undefined functions > > I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no > longer needed since I want the () around the surname of females, > and surname is always filled in. Here is my most recent attempt > without regards to the males: > > Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & ")" & > [MarrName]) > which does not give me any invalid syntax errors, but does give > me Undefined Function IIF in expression. I assume that has > something to do with defining the "else" portion. > > So, what do I need to add? > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 13:39:56 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:39:56 -0700 Subject: SOLVED - RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yeah! That one did it! and so simple too. Many thanks!!! -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of O'Connor, > Patricia (OTDA) > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:30 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > Try > > IIF([FEMALE], [FirstName] & " (" & [SURNAME] & ") " & [MarrName], > [FirstName] & [MarrName] ) > > > Patti > ****************************************************************** > *Patricia O'Connor > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst > *OTDA - BDMA > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > ****************************************************************** > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > KathrynAtGwens > > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 02:07 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > > in query, I have an existing > > Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] > > > > I have a field called Female that can be True or False. > > > > What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: > > FirstName (Surname) MarrName > > Jane (Smith) Doe > > > > otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John Doe > > > > Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different > > scenario of having the married name last in parens, like Jane > > Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] > > being F to [Female] being True) > > IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & > > ")",""),"") > > > > But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I > > can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of > > this, or not enough of that or undefined functions > > > > I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no > > longer needed since I want the () around the surname of > > females, and surname is always filled in. Here is my most > > recent attempt without regards to the males: > > > > Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & > > ")" & [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax > > errors, but does give me Undefined Function IIF in > > expression. I assume that has something to do with defining > > the "else" portion. > > > > So, what do I need to add? > > > > -- > > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Mon Aug 16 13:50:36 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:50:36 -0400 Subject: SOLVED - RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem Message-ID: Glad it worked because I got the names confused and left out the space between the male names Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > KathrynAtGwens > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 02:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: SOLVED - RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > Yeah! That one did it! and so simple too. > > Many thanks!!! > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of O'Connor, > > Patricia (OTDA) > > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:30 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > > > > Try > > > > IIF([FEMALE], [FirstName] & " (" & [SURNAME] & ") " & [MarrName], > > [FirstName] & [MarrName] ) > > > > > > Patti > > ****************************************************************** > > *Patricia O'Connor > > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA > > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > > ****************************************************************** > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > KathrynAtGwens > > > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 02:07 PM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > > > > in query, I have an existing > > > Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] > > > > > > I have a field called Female that can be True or False. > > > > > > What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: > > > FirstName (Surname) MarrName > > > Jane (Smith) Doe > > > > > > otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John > > > Doe > > > > > > Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different > scenario of > > > having the married name last in parens, like Jane Smith (Doe), he > > > gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] being F to > [Female] being > > > True) IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & > [MarrName] & > > > ")",""),"") > > > > > > But no matter how I try to combine everything in the > query, I can't > > > get my results correct. I've either got too many of this, or not > > > enough of that or undefined functions > > > > > > I know I can leave out the length portion because that is > no longer > > > needed since I want the () around the surname of females, and > > > surname is always filled in. Here is my most recent > attempt without > > > regards to the males: > > > > > > Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & ")" & > > > [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax errors, but > > > does give me Undefined Function IIF in expression. I > assume that has > > > something to do with defining the "else" portion. > > > > > > So, what do I need to add? > > > > > > -- > > > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > > > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > > > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 13:52:18 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:52:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem In-Reply-To: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1DA@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: That still left a #Error but it's moot since Patti provided a solution. You probably responded to my message before noticing her solution and my reply where I added SOLVED to the beginning. Thanks for trying again anyway. -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hewson > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:43 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > > Kathryn, > On another thread, there was a discussion of code review. > I did a code review of my own suggestion and saw that I left > something out. > > The correct suggestion: > Name: FirstName & " " & IIF([Female]="Yes", "(" & [Surname] & ") > " & [MarrName], [Surname]) > > The second parenthesis does have a space after it to accommodate > the space before the MarrName. > > Jim From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 16 14:25:16 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:25:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning References: <021201c483b9$156c8b40$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> <001701c483bb$51bb2a00$0100a8c0@Martin> Message-ID: <41210A1C.90709@shaw.ca> FAQ: Installing SQL Express side by side with SQL 2000 Enterprise Manager seems to break EM. It is still broken when You uninstall Express. SQLDMO9 is culprit. MS is supposed to release a new compatible version of EM to work with Beta real soon now. http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07/04/172956.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07.aspx MS is supposed to bring out a new working version of EM that works against SQL Express but hasn't released it yet. I think you reregister sqldmo.dll But if you do EM won't work against SQL express. Gotcha ;) Install on different machines or use something like vmware. Martin Reid wrote: >Someone mentioned a blog highlighting issues with this. I REALLY NEED that >address.. My SQL 2000 server is trashed becasue of the install of Beta 2. > >So be warned folks - I installed 2005 Express yesterday and EM and QA now >dont work at all. ISQL is also out. > >Martin > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 16 14:38:16 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:38:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A7@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <010201c483c8$9409e1f0$6601a8c0@rock> Duh, Drew.... I thought I already dug our own grave with the joke, but no! You gotta rub it in! So tit for tat: Australia at last count has as many medals as USA, with 1/10 the population, give or take. I could draw various conclusions from this datum such as the relative fitness of USA persons v. Aussies, but I'll instead elect to let you draw your own conclusions on the wall. Drew: a couple of Golds already. And where was your alleged baseball team? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 14:43:25 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:43:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Patti said: > Personally, I would have set up the database as FirstName, MaidenName, > Surname > So that Surname is always the last name used. Not neccessarily in genealogy (this is a tombstone database, by the way). Say there are 5 siblings Kathryn (Doe) Smith Karen (Doe) Jones Kay Doe - unmarried Kerry Doe - unmarried Kenneth Doe - married I wouldn't be able to sort them under Doe if I had had Doe in Surname for the males and under MaidenName for the females. To make it more clear, maybe I could have used BirthSurname instead of Surname. The other way I'd have to do it, would be that for the males, I'd have to have Doe in both the Surname and MarrName fields, and rely on the Female field in all queries. But most of my queries, I'm sorting only by Surname (BirthSurname) as, in genealogy, that is the way that women are thought of. They might have 5 married names in their lifetime, but since this is for burials, there is only one used at death. Now, in a proper genealogy program, that would be different. In The Master Genealogist (by http://whollygenes.com) the birthsurname is the primary name (called Name-Var but marked at primary), but they can have all kinds of alternate names - like Name-Nick and Name-Mar. And the program can sort with *just* the primary names in the list, or can include all of the names. FYI The purpose of my database is to keep track of tombstone status. I have y/n fields called Photo Scanned NotAvailable NeedPhoto TMGlinked WebLinked The first is whether or not I *have* a photo of the tombstone. The second is whether or not I've scanned it Third and fourth are obvious - and the longer ago the person died, the more likely it is unavailable. TMGlinked means that I've linked the photo in the genealogy program and lastly, WebLinked means I've linked the photo on the web. Here's an example page: http://babcockancestry.com/BuryPagesLaura/BuryingPlacesWI.shtml Edwin Snow has a tombstone picture and has first two and last two fields checked. Augusta (Priebe) Snow has a checkmark in NotAvailable. Normally, I don't need the married name while using this database as all women are thought of by their birthnames. However, for a report I'm preparing for Gwen's trip, I wanted a list of the people for whom NeedPhoto is checked, so that as she goes through various states, she can see whether a tombstone is available. In that case, when she gets to the cemetery she's going to be looking for Kathryn Smith and Karen Jones, not Kathryn and Karen Doe. But the maiden name is important too, as they may be buried near her parents as often as near his. Hence Kathryn (Doe) Smith and Karen (Doe) Jones in the report. Works pretty well for me on the whole. As you see on the web pages, we have a lot of photos of tombstones 212 of them, 22 unavailable, 72 needed (though some may move to unavailable status), and about 500 more that fall into several categories. Some we haven't yet dug through to get the photo out of trip albums, *many* we don't have the cemetery location, so they are moot, many are old enough they will probably end up in the unavailable field. Tons of those are in Massachusetts: http://babcockancestry.com/BuryPagesGNG/BurialsMA2.shtml I used to have a separate database of the people on that page, and I publicly thank Drew for the off list help he gave me in combining the two databases. -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Aug 16 14:52:44 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:52:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning References: <021201c483b9$156c8b40$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM><001701c483bb$51bb2a00$0100a8c0@Martin> <41210A1C.90709@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <001501c483ca$991be0b0$0100a8c0@Martin> Thanks Marty Appears to be the uninstall which is the problem. Appeared to work OK when installed. When I uninstalled it to load up a newer release of Express nothing else worked. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning > FAQ: Installing SQL Express side by side with SQL 2000 Enterprise > Manager seems to break EM. It is still broken when You uninstall > Express. SQLDMO9 is culprit. MS is supposed to release a new compatible > version of EM to work with Beta real soon now. > > http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07/04/172956.aspx > http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07.aspx > > MS is supposed to bring out a new working version of EM that works > against SQL Express but hasn't released it yet. > I think you reregister sqldmo.dll > But if you do EM won't work against SQL express. > Gotcha ;) > Install on different machines or use something like vmware. > > Martin Reid wrote: > > >Someone mentioned a blog highlighting issues with this. I REALLY NEED that > >address.. My SQL 2000 server is trashed becasue of the install of Beta 2. > > > >So be warned folks - I installed 2005 Express yesterday and EM and QA now > >dont work at all. ISQL is also out. > > > >Martin > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 14:58:24 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:58:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2AF@main2.marlow.com> LOL! We had a student in my High School who was from England. His name was Neville. In a health class (which is where they have sex ed, etc.), during a test, he stood up and asked if anyone had a rubber. It took the teacher and 5 minutes to get us to settle down...it was hilarious. For the Listers that don't understand, in England, a rubber is a pencil eraser. In America, it's a condom! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Another dumb American story (sadly true): An aquaintance of mine was from India, and had spent time in the UK before moving with her family to Houston. She started attending a local Houston high school, and one day there a curious fellow student started asking her questions: "So, where'd you live before you came to Houston?" "In England." "Oh. Where's that?" "Umm, east of here." "Oh really ... what language do they speak?" At that point, she broke off the conversation. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 16 14:49:58 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:49:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday References: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1D6@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: <41210FE6.7090105@shaw.ca> I have played Carling in Canada, a more macho form of curling. You get a 3 mile stretch of lake ice cleared of snow and at least 2 feet thick. Less thickness than that causes the ice to crack and pressure waves to build up. You then paint a series of concentric rings with at least a 100 foot radius at one end. You then get the various competitors cars and equip with studded tires and surround the car securely with old tires. Each competitor guns his car up to 100 mph upon crossing the hog line about a mile from the circle he removes his foot from the accelerator and attempts to coast his car as close as he can to the center of the circle, the other team may attempt to remove competitors cars by knocking it from circle. Triple takeouts are much celebrated, however sweeping brooms in front of incoming cars to change the cars direction and speed is discouraged for obvious reasons. This may make a great Olympic Winter sport. Jim Hewson wrote: >At the risk of sounding uninformed (which I am most of the time), what is Curling? >My first thought was something that ladies do with their hair. A sport? >I haven't seen snow for a long time, so I'm not sure if Hockey is really a sport. >I do love Canada though, brings back memories. My wife and I went camping in Banff on our honeymoon, 28 years ago this month. Absolutely gorgeous! > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > >Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, >unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was >an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. > >And besides, we have Curling too! > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > >Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, >couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday > > >Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited >about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The information in this email may contain confidential information that >is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended >recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking >of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If >transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender >immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited >from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to >destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > >Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual >sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, >states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > >This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned >for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and >addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software >in conjunction with virus detection software. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 15:01:19 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:01:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2B1@main2.marlow.com> If it's a yes no field, you need to remove the quotes around True: IFF([Female]=True,IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & ")",""),"") Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 1:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] IFF else problem in query, I have an existing Expr1: [FirstName] & " " & [Surname] & " " & [MarrName] I have a field called Female that can be True or False. What I want is that IF [Female] is true, then I want: FirstName (Surname) MarrName Jane (Smith) Doe otherwise (if Female is False) then I want FirstName Surname John Doe Based on my previously giving Drew a slightly different scenario of having the married name last in parens, like Jane Smith (Doe), he gave me this (though I've modified [Sex] being F to [Female] being True) IFF([Female]="True",IIF(Len([MarrName])>0),"(" & [MarrName] & ")",""),"") But no matter how I try to combine everything in the query, I can't get my results correct. I've either got too many of this, or not enough of that or undefined functions I know I can leave out the length portion because that is no longer needed since I want the () around the surname of females, and surname is always filled in. Here is my most recent attempt without regards to the males: Expr1: IFF([Female]="True", [FirstName] & "(" & [Surname] & ")" & [MarrName]) which does not give me any invalid syntax errors, but does give me Undefined Function IIF in expression. I assume that has something to do with defining the "else" portion. So, what do I need to add? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 15:04:38 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:04:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2B2@main2.marlow.com> Oh, I don't watch TV anymore....so I haven't really been paying attention to the Olympics. As for why Australia is doing better, well, my guess is that it is due to the higher women to men ratio. If the guys win, they have a LOT better chance of being rewarded back at home. LOL Okay, we're going to get shot for this OT thread on Monday, but heck......it's Monday, have to break the monotony! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 2:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Duh, Drew.... I thought I already dug our own grave with the joke, but no! You gotta rub it in! So tit for tat: Australia at last count has as many medals as USA, with 1/10 the population, give or take. I could draw various conclusions from this datum such as the relative fitness of USA persons v. Aussies, but I'll instead elect to let you draw your own conclusions on the wall. Drew: a couple of Golds already. And where was your alleged baseball team? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Mon Aug 16 15:06:47 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:06:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2AF@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Drew, Along the same lines: Friends of ours were staying at a hotel in England. Women was taken a back when asked by the hotel clerk if she wanted to be "knocked up" in the morning... English version: Wakeup call American: Get pregnant Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 3:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday LOL! We had a student in my High School who was from England. His name was Neville. In a health class (which is where they have sex ed, etc.), during a test, he stood up and asked if anyone had a rubber. It took the teacher and 5 minutes to get us to settle down...it was hilarious. For the Listers that don't understand, in England, a rubber is a pencil eraser. In America, it's a condom! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Another dumb American story (sadly true): An aquaintance of mine was from India, and had spent time in the UK before moving with her family to Houston. She started attending a local Houston high school, and one day there a curious fellow student started asking her questions: "So, where'd you live before you came to Houston?" "In England." "Oh. Where's that?" "Umm, east of here." "Oh really ... what language do they speak?" At that point, she broke off the conversation. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 16 15:08:03 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:08:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <010201c483c8$9409e1f0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <20040816200806.DYU1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Arthur, we don't have any roos or crocs to wrestle with... puts us as a disadvantage. :) The American basketball players are wienies -- not the Olympic team, but the guys that should've tried out. Wienies... Susan H. Duh, Drew.... I thought I already dug our own grave with the joke, but no! You gotta rub it in! So tit for tat: Australia at last count has as many medals as USA, with 1/10 the population, give or take. I could draw various conclusions from this datum such as the relative fitness of USA persons v. Aussies, but I'll instead elect to let you draw your own conclusions on the wall. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 16 15:09:21 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:09:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning In-Reply-To: <001501c483ca$991be0b0$0100a8c0@Martin> Message-ID: <20040816200924.EUB1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Why are you installing a beta on a development system? You're not supposed to do that -- WARNING!!! WARNING!!!! Betas break things. :( Susan H. Thanks Marty Appears to be the uninstall which is the problem. Appeared to work OK when installed. When I uninstalled it to load up a newer release of Express nothing else worked. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning > FAQ: Installing SQL Express side by side with SQL 2000 Enterprise > Manager seems to break EM. It is still broken when You uninstall > Express. SQLDMO9 is culprit. MS is supposed to release a new compatible > version of EM to work with Beta real soon now. > > http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07/04/172956.aspx > http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07.aspx > > MS is supposed to bring out a new working version of EM that works > against SQL Express but hasn't released it yet. > I think you reregister sqldmo.dll > But if you do EM won't work against SQL express. > Gotcha ;) > Install on different machines or use something like vmware. > > Martin Reid wrote: > > >Someone mentioned a blog highlighting issues with this. I REALLY NEED that > >address.. My SQL 2000 server is trashed becasue of the install of Beta 2. > > > >So be warned folks - I installed 2005 Express yesterday and EM and QA now > >dont work at all. ISQL is also out. > > > >Martin > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 15:05:23 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:05:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Have field named DeathPlace that holds: city, county, state - ie: Pomfret, Windham, CT Have fields deathcity, deathcounty, deathstate Some people already have deathcity, deathcounty, deathstate fields filled in but some haven't yet been broken down. Thanks to Drew, I know how to do the opposite - combining the fields: UPDATE tblBuried SET DeathPlace = [deathcity] & ", " & [deathcounty] & ", " & [deathstate]; (did that for another purpose) But now how do I do the opposite - the splitting of one field to three? I know it should be easy and people do it all the time with splitting names, but I'm not understanding the syntax. I found the parsing instructions in the help file but it's using an example that has a fixed number of characters and my mind is blank on how to change it so that the comma is the deliminator. = = = = = = To find values in part of a field, use the Left, Right, or Mid function in an expression in an empty cell in the Field row in the query design grid. The syntax for these functions is: Left(stringexpr,n) Right(stringexpr,n) Mid(stringexpr,start,n) = = = = = = Help? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Aug 16 15:13:13 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:13:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <5095510.1092686807598.JavaMail.root@sniper6.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <004301c483cd$75c585f0$de1811d8@danwaters> Marty, As I live in Minnesota, I understand how long the winters in Canada can get! ;-) Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 2:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT Friday I have played Carling in Canada, a more macho form of curling. You get a 3 mile stretch of lake ice cleared of snow and at least 2 feet thick. Less thickness than that causes the ice to crack and pressure waves to build up. You then paint a series of concentric rings with at least a 100 foot radius at one end. You then get the various competitors cars and equip with studded tires and surround the car securely with old tires. Each competitor guns his car up to 100 mph upon crossing the hog line about a mile from the circle he removes his foot from the accelerator and attempts to coast his car as close as he can to the center of the circle, the other team may attempt to remove competitors cars by knocking it from circle. Triple takeouts are much celebrated, however sweeping brooms in front of incoming cars to change the cars direction and speed is discouraged for obvious reasons. This may make a great Olympic Winter sport. Jim Hewson wrote: >At the risk of sounding uninformed (which I am most of the time), what is Curling? >My first thought was something that ladies do with their hair. A sport? >I haven't seen snow for a long time, so I'm not sure if Hockey is really a sport. >I do love Canada though, brings back memories. My wife and I went camping in Banff on our honeymoon, 28 years ago this month. Absolutely gorgeous! > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > >Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, >unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was >an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. > >And besides, we have Curling too! > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > >Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, >couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday > > >Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited >about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------- >The information in this email may contain confidential information that >is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended >recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking >of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If >transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender >immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited >from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to >destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > >Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual >sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, >states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > >This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned >for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and >addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software >in conjunction with virus detection software. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 15:11:55 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:11:55 -0700 Subject: SOLVED - RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just realized the mens last names weren't showing so I had to change this: IIF([FEMALE], [FirstName] & " (" & [SURNAME] & ") " & [MarrName], [FirstName] & [MarrName] ) to this IIF([FEMALE], [FirstName] & " (" & [SURNAME] & ") " & [MarrName], [FirstName] & " " &[Surname] ) But at least I figured it out myself - yeah! Kathryn > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: SOLVED - RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > Yeah! That one did it! and so simple too. > > Many thanks!!! > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of O'Connor, > > Patricia (OTDA) > > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:30 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem > > > > > > Try > > > > IIF([FEMALE], [FirstName] & " (" & [SURNAME] & ") " & [MarrName], > > [FirstName] & [MarrName] ) > > > > > > Patti > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 16 15:16:26 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:16:26 -0700 Subject: SOLVED - RE: [AccessD] IFF else problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thought you might like to see what the final report looks like. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/burialphotosneededsamplereport.jpg -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) From garykjos at hotmail.com Mon Aug 16 15:24:47 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:24:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: Hi Dan, Welcome to OT. I'm in Minnesnowta as well. Nice summer we are having here isn't it - NOT! I still have yet to see any sign of ripening on a single tomato in my garden :-( Heard on TV that if we don't get some heat soon that a lot of tomatos won't ripen at all before frost. At least we got a little rain today. Where in Minnesota are you at? I'm from Owatonna originally and live in Brooklyn Park nowadays and work in Eden Prairie. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Dan Waters" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday >Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:13:13 -0500 > >Marty, > >As I live in Minnesota, I understand how long the winters in Canada can >get! >;-) > >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 2:50 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT Friday > >I have played Carling in Canada, a more macho form of curling. You get a >3 mile stretch of lake ice cleared of snow and at least 2 feet thick. >Less thickness than that causes the ice to crack and pressure waves to >build up. >You then paint a series of concentric rings with at least a 100 foot >radius at one end. You then get the various competitors cars >and equip with studded tires and surround the car securely with old >tires. Each competitor guns his car up to 100 mph >upon crossing the hog line about a mile from the circle he removes his >foot from the accelerator and attempts to coast his car >as close as he can to the center of the circle, the other team may >attempt to remove competitors cars by knocking it from circle. >Triple takeouts are much celebrated, however sweeping brooms in front >of incoming cars to change the cars direction and speed is discouraged >for obvious reasons. > >This may make a great Olympic Winter sport. > >Jim Hewson wrote: > > >At the risk of sounding uninformed (which I am most of the time), what is >Curling? > >My first thought was something that ladies do with their hair. A sport? > >I haven't seen snow for a long time, so I'm not sure if Hockey is really >a >sport. > >I do love Canada though, brings back memories. My wife and I went camping >in Banff on our honeymoon, 28 years ago this month. Absolutely gorgeous! > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash > >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > > > > >Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, > >unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was > >an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. > > > >And besides, we have Curling too! > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > >DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday > > > > > >Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, > >couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) > > > >Drew > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > >Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday > > > > > >Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited > >about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----------------------------------------- > >The information in this email may contain confidential information that > >is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the >intended > >recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the >taking > >of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly >prohibited. If > >transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the >sender > > >immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are >prohibited > >from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required >to > >destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > > >Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > >sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > >states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > > >This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > >for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > >addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter >software > >in conjunction with virus detection software. > > > > > > > >-- >Marty Connelly >Victoria, B.C. >Canada > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Mon Aug 16 15:27:54 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:27:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: OOOPS. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Thought this was the OT list. I'll slap my own hand. It's not Friday is it. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Gary Kjos" > >Hi Dan, > >Welcome to OT. I'm in Minnesnowta as well. > >Nice summer we are having here isn't it - NOT! I still have yet to see any >sign of ripening on a single tomato in my garden :-( Heard on TV that if >we don't get some heat soon that a lot of tomatos won't ripen at all before >frost. > >At least we got a little rain today. > >Where in Minnesota are you at? I'm from Owatonna originally and live in >Brooklyn Park nowadays and work in Eden Prairie. > >Gary Kjos >garykjos at hotmail.com > > > > > >>From: "Dan Waters" >> >>Marty, >> >>As I live in Minnesota, I understand how long the winters in Canada can >>get! >>;-) From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 15:31:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:31:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2B3@main2.marlow.com> LOL, I knew of that phrase too! That must have given her a little bit of a culture shock! LOL. I was taken aback on my first trip to Australia, when the guy next to me in a bar said he was pissed. I was like ' I didn't do anything'....only later did I find out that 'pissed' is 'drunk' in AussieLand! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 3:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Drew, Along the same lines: Friends of ours were staying at a hotel in England. Women was taken a back when asked by the hotel clerk if she wanted to be "knocked up" in the morning... English version: Wakeup call American: Get pregnant Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 3:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday LOL! We had a student in my High School who was from England. His name was Neville. In a health class (which is where they have sex ed, etc.), during a test, he stood up and asked if anyone had a rubber. It took the teacher and 5 minutes to get us to settle down...it was hilarious. For the Listers that don't understand, in England, a rubber is a pencil eraser. In America, it's a condom! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Another dumb American story (sadly true): An aquaintance of mine was from India, and had spent time in the UK before moving with her family to Houston. She started attending a local Houston high school, and one day there a curious fellow student started asking her questions: "So, where'd you live before you came to Houston?" "In England." "Oh. Where's that?" "Umm, east of here." "Oh really ... what language do they speak?" At that point, she broke off the conversation. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 16 15:32:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:32:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2B4@main2.marlow.com> I forgot, are you using Access 2000? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 3:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place Have field named DeathPlace that holds: city, county, state - ie: Pomfret, Windham, CT Have fields deathcity, deathcounty, deathstate Some people already have deathcity, deathcounty, deathstate fields filled in but some haven't yet been broken down. Thanks to Drew, I know how to do the opposite - combining the fields: UPDATE tblBuried SET DeathPlace = [deathcity] & ", " & [deathcounty] & ", " & [deathstate]; (did that for another purpose) But now how do I do the opposite - the splitting of one field to three? I know it should be easy and people do it all the time with splitting names, but I'm not understanding the syntax. I found the parsing instructions in the help file but it's using an example that has a fixed number of characters and my mind is blank on how to change it so that the comma is the deliminator. = = = = = = To find values in part of a field, use the Left, Right, or Mid function in an expression in an empty cell in the Field row in the query design grid. The syntax for these functions is: Left(stringexpr,n) Right(stringexpr,n) Mid(stringexpr,start,n) = = = = = = Help? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Aug 16 15:25:41 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:25:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning References: <20040816200924.EUB1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <003101c483d0$27194420$0100a8c0@Martin> Well some fool has to try it out with SQL Server.(<: Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 9:09 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning > Why are you installing a beta on a development system? You're not supposed > to do that -- WARNING!!! WARNING!!!! Betas break things. :( > > Susan H. > > Thanks Marty > > Appears to be the uninstall which is the problem. Appeared to work OK when > installed. When I uninstalled it to load up a newer release of Express > nothing else worked. > > Martin > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MartyConnelly" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:25 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning > > > > FAQ: Installing SQL Express side by side with SQL 2000 Enterprise > > Manager seems to break EM. It is still broken when You uninstall > > Express. SQLDMO9 is culprit. MS is supposed to release a new compatible > > version of EM to work with Beta real soon now. > > > > http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07/04/172956.aspx > > http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07.aspx > > > > MS is supposed to bring out a new working version of EM that works > > against SQL Express but hasn't released it yet. > > I think you reregister sqldmo.dll > > But if you do EM won't work against SQL express. > > Gotcha ;) > > Install on different machines or use something like vmware. > > > > Martin Reid wrote: > > > > >Someone mentioned a blog highlighting issues with this. I REALLY NEED > that > > >address.. My SQL 2000 server is trashed becasue of the install of Beta 2. > > > > > >So be warned folks - I installed 2005 Express yesterday and EM and QA > now > > >dont work at all. ISQL is also out. > > > > > >Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Marty Connelly > > Victoria, B.C. > > Canada > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 16 15:40:18 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:40:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT SQL Express - Warning References: <021201c483b9$156c8b40$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> <001701c483bb$51bb2a00$0100a8c0@Martin> Message-ID: <41211BB2.9070800@shaw.ca> FAQ: Installing SQL Express side by side with SQL 2000 Enterprise Manager seems to break EM. It is still broken when You uninstall Express. SQLDMO9 is culprit. MS is supposed to release a new compatible version of EM to work with Beta real soon now. http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07/04/172956.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/2004/07.aspx If you fix then EM won't work with Express better to install each on different machines or use something like vmware. Martin Reid wrote: >Someone mentioned a blog highlighting issues with this. I REALLY NEED that >address.. My SQL 2000 server is trashed becasue of the install of Beta 2. > >So be warned folks - I installed 2005 Express yesterday and EM and QA now >dont work at all. ISQL is also out. > >Martin > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Mon Aug 16 16:31:45 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:31:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658C3@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Quite a few Canucks living in Minnesota as well (myself for one)! We even have a curling club in St. Paul. 2 official languages, while being confusing and redundant, beats the heck out of having none like the US. Oh, and the term 'pissed' means drunk (or angry) in Canada as well. My favorite social event in college came around Christmas time. All of the posters said "Get kissed under the mistletoe", with the k crossed out and replaced with a p to spell the aforementioned word. Ah... Good times! (and with the stern OT warning in mind, I have ended my contribution to this thread) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday LOL. Oh, it's hard to forget the neighbors to the north.....they gave us their own bacon, they have peculiarities about having two official languages, and quite frankly, all of their talent moved here, cause half of Hollywood is from Canada! LOL! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Hey, at least you are aware that the US has neighbors to the north, unlike another individual (not on this list) who thought that Alaska was an island because her US map didn't show any other land bordering it. And besides, we have Curling too! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Friday Canada has Olympic athletes? I thought they just played Hockey. (Sorry, couldn't resist a dig on my neighbors to the north...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday Did you hear about the Canadian Olympian athlete who was so excited about winning a gold medal that he had it bronzed? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Mon Aug 16 19:13:08 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:13:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Why not reply at top of message In-Reply-To: <014b01c48398$a276aa50$3500a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: <022e01c483ee$fa3b6c70$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> > > > Following the same logic - when you write a system with > > a continuous form - do you display the *latest* records > > at the top - or make them scroll all the way down to > > see the latest data? This is starting to sound a lot like a big or little endian argument. It's issues like these that caused a state of perpetual war between Lilliput and Blefuscu, people!! So, I'm defying all convention, and putting my response in the middle!!!! No, seriously, two suggestions: 1. First responders, use one of the common conventions, like > > or , to help make clear what order you are replying in. 2. Thereafter, maintain the reply order of the thread, even if its the one you don't prefer. -Ken > > Nope. It goes at the bottom. Oldest at the top. Newest at the bottom. > Just like everything else I do. I need context, the older stuff, > before I can understand the new stuff. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Aug 16 19:35:24 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:35:24 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT Friday In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2A9@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <4121DF6C.25832.4200FFD@lexacorp.com.pg> On 16 Aug 2004 at 12:08, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > cause half of Hollywood is from Canada! LOL! > Thereby raising the average IQ in both countries? -- Stuart From kathryn at bassett.net Mon Aug 16 19:56:37 2004 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:56:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2B4@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <3948se$61hqkg@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> Yes -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > Drew From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Mon Aug 16 20:01:29 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:01:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Jeffrey F Demulling/MN/USB is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 08/16/2004 and will not return until 08/17/2004. I will respond to your message when I return. Please contact Greg Paoli (651-495-3925) if you have an urgent matter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ============================================================================== From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Tue Aug 17 08:07:40 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:07:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] IsDirty Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B75@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I am having problems on the close button of my form. I want to make sure certain fields are completed before they close the form. I am trying to use IsDirty so the form closes if there hasn't been any changes made and also if all the fields have been completed. I am using the below code and receive the error, object not supported. This is a form/subform and the close button is on the subform. If I remove the IsDirty, it works. If Forms!frmEvalMain.frmEvalSub.Dirty = True Then 'Data Entered? Yes If Len(TypeID & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "You must enter a Type." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" TypeID.SetFocus ElseIf Len(Title & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "A title must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" Title.SetFocus ElseIf Len(Author & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "An Author must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" Author.SetFocus Else response = MsgBox("Do you want to Exit?", vbYesNo + vbQuestion, "Exit") If response = vbNo Then Title.SetFocus Else DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord DoCmd.Close acForm, "frmEvalMain" End If End If Else DoCmd.Close acForm, "frmEvalMain" End If Virginia From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Tue Aug 17 08:34:22 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:34:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Open Report Fails in SR3 Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B7C@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Last week I started having problems viewing reports. The report will not open and the database crashes. I am running A2k, SR-3. I also have A2003 on the same machine, but I do not use it, I am using the 2k. There was an auto-update last week from Microsoft; I do not know what it was, since they are automatically sent to our computers from the network. I am not sure if that had anything to do with this problem or not, or is it a coincidence. I talked to other people at work that are running A2k & still have SR1 and they do not have the problem. I heard that SR3 was supposed to fix problems with the Open Report. Is anyone else having problems opening reports? Virginia From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Aug 17 09:12:38 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:12:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] IsDirty In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B75@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <41229EF6.27823.1D9D18B@lexacorp.com.pg> On 17 Aug 2004 at 8:07, Hollis,Virginia wrote: > > If Forms!frmEvalMain.frmEvalSub.Dirty = True Then 'Data Entered? Yes Try Forms!frmEvalMain.frmEvalSub.Form.Dirty -- Stuart From kaupca at chevrontexaco.com Tue Aug 17 09:58:36 2004 From: kaupca at chevrontexaco.com (Kaup, Chester A) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:58:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts Message-ID: <193572B4E0FC1744BEDFEE63F82CEC9E0273966B@bocnte2k4.boc.chevrontexaco.net> Access has stopped asking when running a make table query about replacing the table and does not ask if I want to save a query when I change it. Probably just a setting somewhere but I am not finding it. Help please. Chester Kaup Information Management Technician IT-MidContinent/MidContinent Business Unit CTN 8-687-7415 Outside 432-687-7414 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 10:04:11 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:04:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2B6@main2.marlow.com> Then put this in a module: Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) AS String Dim strArray() As String strArray=Split(strPlace,", ") SplitDeathPlace=strArray(intPos) End Function And in your query, put the following for DeathCity: SplitDeathPlace([DeathPlace],0) Replace the 0 with 1 for deathcounty, and 2 for deathstate Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn Bassett Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place Yes -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 17 10:05:42 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:05:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts In-Reply-To: <193572B4E0FC1744BEDFEE63F82CEC9E0273966B@bocnte2k4.boc.chevrontexaco.net> Message-ID: <20040817150541.FLZN1721.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Tools, Options, Edit/Find tab, Confirm options. Susan H. Access has stopped asking when running a make table query about replacing the table and does not ask if I want to save a query when I change it. Probably just a setting somewhere but I am not finding it. Help please. From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Aug 17 10:07:47 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:07:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts Message-ID: <13982223.1092755267206.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Look in tools, options click the edit/find tab and make sure all boxes in the confirm section are checked.....if so, make sure there isn't any code to say set warnings false Paul Message date : Aug 17 2004, 04:04 PM >From : "Kaup, Chester A" To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Access no longer prompts Access has stopped asking when running a make table query about replacing the table and does not ask if I want to save a query when I change it. Probably just a setting somewhere but I am not finding it. Help please. Chester Kaup Information Management Technician IT-MidContinent/MidContinent Business Unit CTN 8-687-7415 Outside 432-687-7414 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Aug 17 10:12:03 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:12:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts Message-ID: <20040817151200.48C402504C3@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Or it could be that a routine somewhere sets warnings off and doesn't set them back on. You can soon prove this by knocking up a macro that does a SetWarnings True or a function that just does a DoCmd.Setwarnings True, then running it. Do your messages reappear? If so you've got to track down the culprit routine. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts Date: 17/08/04 15:07 > > Tools, Options, Edit/Find tab, Confirm options. > > Susan H. > > Access has stopped asking when running a make table query about replacing > the table and does not ask if I want to save a query when I change it. > Probably just a setting somewhere but I am not finding it. > Help please. > > > -- ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From liz at symphonyinfo.com Tue Aug 17 10:19:19 2004 From: liz at symphonyinfo.com (Liz Doering) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:19:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts In-Reply-To: <193572B4E0FC1744BEDFEE63F82CEC9E0273966B@bocnte2k4.boc.chevrontexaco.net> Message-ID: Here is one good use for a macro: make one that sets warnings true. Then if you have stopped code that set warnings false and find yourself in this (irritating) position, a quick click of your macro will restore the warnings. Liz -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester A Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 9:59 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts Access has stopped asking when running a make table query about replacing the table and does not ask if I want to save a query when I change it. Probably just a setting somewhere but I am not finding it. Help please. Chester Kaup Information Management Technician IT-MidContinent/MidContinent Business Unit CTN 8-687-7415 Outside 432-687-7414 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 17 10:46:40 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:46:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Message-ID: The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul From jmhla at earthlink.net Tue Aug 17 10:51:57 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:51:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200408171551.i7HFptQ14040@databaseadvisors.com> Look and see if the a security file failed to close. Sometimes they stay open and make the database think a table is in use. Joe Hecht jmhla at earthlink.net 28g -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 17 10:51:36 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:51:36 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] IsDirty In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B75@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0EAE8B75@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <9431436893.20040817175136@cactus.dk> Hi Virginia Looks like you need to read up how to reference subforms etc.: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newletters/newsletter032004/0310ReferenceGuide/SyntaxForSubs.htm /gustav > I am having problems on the close button of my form. I want to make sure > certain fields are completed before they close the form. I am trying to use > IsDirty so the form closes if there hasn't been any changes made and also if > all the fields have been completed. I am using the below code and receive > the error, object not supported. This is a form/subform and the close button > is on the subform. If I remove the IsDirty, it works. > If Forms!frmEvalMain.frmEvalSub.Dirty = True Then 'Data Entered? Yes > If Len(TypeID & "") = 0 Then > MsgBox "You must enter a Type." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry > Required" > TypeID.SetFocus > ElseIf Len(Title & "") = 0 Then > MsgBox "A title must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry > Required" > Title.SetFocus > ElseIf Len(Author & "") = 0 Then > MsgBox "An Author must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry > Required" > Author.SetFocus > Else > response = MsgBox("Do you want to Exit?", vbYesNo + vbQuestion, > "Exit") > If response = vbNo Then > Title.SetFocus > Else > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSaveRecord > DoCmd.Close acForm, "frmEvalMain" > End If > End If > Else > DoCmd.Close acForm, "frmEvalMain" > End If > Virginia From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Aug 17 10:59:11 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:59:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated References: Message-ID: <41222B4F.1090009@shaw.ca> Try moving your tables with this command from debug to a new mdb. It may remove the lock. SaveAsText 6, "", c:\access\mynew.mdb" Paul Rodgers wrote: >The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is >busy with the table. But this is not so. > >I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another >database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. > >I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database >refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. > >I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. > >Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? >Cheers paul > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From JColby at dispec.com Tue Aug 17 11:17:29 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:17:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC4@DISABILITYINS01> Are there any memo fields in the table? If so that may be the problem, memos get corrupted. If that is the case it is one or more specific memos (specific records). The easiest way to determine is to create the table structure only (empty) in another db then append all the records to that table. If there are corrupt memos the copy will fail. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Aug 17 11:19:25 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Message-ID: <20040817161925.7582.qmail@web20428.mail.yahoo.com> Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Aug 17 11:20:29 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:20:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Tue Aug 17 12:02:19 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:02:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658C8@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N "" /A =', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. 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This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Tue Aug 17 12:01:20 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:01:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2B6@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: I'm doing something wrong. I clicked on Modules and then on New. I pasted in the Function code. Named the module SplitDeathPlace. Compiled it. Saved it. First indication something not right is that when I'm back at Modules, the SplitDeathPlace doesn't show up. But when I click on new again, it is there. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessmodulesplitdeathplace.jpg Thinking that there is a reason it's not showing, I go on to next step and make an (update) query. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessquerysplitdeathplace.jpg When I try to run it, I get: Undefined function 'SplitDeathPlace' in expression Does not showing on the main screen right panel when clicking on modules on main screen left panel have anything to do with this? This is the first module I've made, so maybe how I did it was wrong? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:04 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Then put this in a module: > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) AS String > Dim strArray() As String > strArray=Split(strPlace,", ") > SplitDeathPlace=strArray(intPos) > End Function > > And in your query, put the following for DeathCity: > > SplitDeathPlace([DeathPlace],0) > > Replace the 0 with 1 for deathcounty, and 2 for deathstate > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn > Bassett > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:57 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Yes > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 17 13:04:21 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:04:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report Message-ID: <054801c48484$9f9247d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I have two reports with two different record sources which I have placed on another report. So they're sub-reports but not linked parent-child to the main report. Each runs okay standalone, but when I run the main report with the two sub-reports on it it blows up on the statement Me.Filter = ""; says the setting you entered isn't valid for this property. Same with Me.FilterOn = False. These statements are in the _Open event of the sub-report, preparatory to creating a filter from the user's selected options on the form which calls the report. Anyone know why I can't set the filter on the sub-report? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From blansett at holly.colostate.edu Tue Aug 17 13:05:20 2004 From: blansett at holly.colostate.edu (Catherine Blansett) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:05:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <005c01c48484$c26eb040$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> Hi, I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional database program for her non-profit agency (front-end and back-end). She is receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no reason to do this. Is there any reason to move? Thanks Catherine From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 17 13:19:07 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:19:07 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <005c01c48484$c26eb040$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> References: <005c01c48484$c26eb040$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> Message-ID: <12540288411.20040817201907@cactus.dk> Hi Catherine As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer is No. Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. /gustav > I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional database program for her non-profit agency (front-end > and back-end). She is receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no reason to do this. > Is there any reason to move? > Thanks > Catherine From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 17 13:21:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:21:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report In-Reply-To: <054801c48484$9f9247d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <054801c48484$9f9247d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <12940412560.20040817202112@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky Why don't you apply the filter to the queries which drive the subreports? /gustav > I have two reports with two different record sources which I have placed on another report. So they're sub-reports but not linked parent-child to the main report. > Each runs okay standalone, but when I run the main report with the two sub-reports on it it blows up on the statement Me.Filter = ""; says the setting you entered isn't valid for this property. > Same with Me.FilterOn = False. > These statements are in the _Open event of the sub-report, preparatory to creating a filter from the user's selected options on the form which calls the report. > Anyone know why I can't set the filter on the sub-report? From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 17 13:32:58 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:32:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report References: <054801c48484$9f9247d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <12940412560.20040817202112@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <056f01c48488$9f2901e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Gustav: Mostly because I've always done it the other way and never learned how to apply the filters directly to the queries. I have set the recordsource in a report by modifying the SQL statement that represents the query. Guess I'll try that. Thanks, Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report > Hi Rocky > > Why don't you apply the filter to the queries which drive the > subreports? > > /gustav > > > > I have two reports with two different record sources which I have placed on another report. So they're sub-reports but not linked parent-child to the main report. > > > Each runs okay standalone, but when I run the main report with the two sub-reports on it it blows up on the statement Me.Filter = ""; says the setting you entered isn't valid for this property. > > Same with Me.FilterOn = False. > > > These statements are in the _Open event of the sub-report, preparatory to creating a filter from the user's selected options on the form which calls the report. > > > Anyone know why I can't set the filter on the sub-report? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From my.lists at verizon.net Tue Aug 17 13:39:40 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:39:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <12540288411.20040817201907@cactus.dk> References: <005c01c48484$c26eb040$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> <12540288411.20040817201907@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <412250EC.2060809@verizon.net> Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short >answer is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco From Dave.Bucher at state.mn.us Tue Aug 17 13:45:23 2004 From: Dave.Bucher at state.mn.us (Bucher, Dave) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:45:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: OT-Canada north? Since when? Message-ID: As a Minnesotan who lives SOUTH of MOST Canadians, a review of latitudes is in order. In St. Paul we are, in fact, slightly north of Toronto. My wife is Canadian/American and heads south for there frequently. I now refer to Canada as "over there". (Continued thanks to this list for all the Access help.) :) Dave Bucher Information Technology Specialist Children's Research, Planning and Evaluation Minnesota Dept. of Human Services From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Tue Aug 17 13:55:07 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:55:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658C9@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From JColby at dispec.com Tue Aug 17 14:04:22 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:04:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC8@DISABILITYINS01> >Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. Badmouthing Clippy will make you no friends! ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JColby at dispec.com Tue Aug 17 14:17:03 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:17:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC9@DISABILITYINS01> Is there some "break" character that I can place in front of or around a comma to tell Access' wizard that links comma delimited files that a comma is not a field separator but a real data in the data? IOW 27 Heath Way, #27 turns into two fields when imported (skewing the data) where I really want to pull the data into a single field. I can replace the comma with a tab but would like to solve this problem for the future. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N "" /A =', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 17 14:18:29 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:18:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report References: <054801c48484$9f9247d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <12940412560.20040817202112@cactus.dk> <056f01c48488$9f2901e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <059a01c4848e$fae5e790$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Gustav: Well, that worked - copying the sql text into the _Open event of the sub-reports and then adding the 'HAVING' clauses (these are summation queries) then appending the ORDER BY clause. But I'm still curious why I can;'t seem to set the filter on a sub-report. Is this the case? And is there a workaround? Finally, when you modify the query which is the record source of the sub-report by adding parameters (using querydef, I assume?), do you have to unset the parameters the next time you run the report if the user has not selected any filtering? Thanks for your help, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report > Gustav: > > Mostly because I've always done it the other way and never learned how to > apply the filters directly to the queries. I have set the recordsource in a > report by modifying the SQL statement that represents the query. Guess I'll > try that. > > Thanks, > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:21 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report > > > > Hi Rocky > > > > Why don't you apply the filter to the queries which drive the > > subreports? > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > I have two reports with two different record sources which I have placed > on another report. So they're sub-reports but not linked parent-child to > the main report. > > > > > Each runs okay standalone, but when I run the main report with the two > sub-reports on it it blows up on the statement Me.Filter = ""; says the > setting you entered isn't valid for this property. > > > Same with Me.FilterOn = False. > > > > > These statements are in the _Open event of the sub-report, preparatory > to creating a filter from the user's selected options on the form which > calls the report. > > > > > Anyone know why I can't set the filter on the sub-report? > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From alan.lawhon at us.army.mil Tue Aug 17 14:18:44 2004 From: alan.lawhon at us.army.mil (Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:18:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E174490DE@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Thanks for the encouragement, Brett!! I just got thru spending a (minor) fortune for an upgrade to Windows XP Pro (OS) and Office 2003 (XP) Pro. I was looking forward to getting familiar with all the new "bells and whistles" in Access 2003, but from what you're saying it looks like all I can look forward to is nothing but problems ... :-((( Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Aug 17 14:25:54 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:25:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FEDA3@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Don't believe that A2K3 is all that bad. We're still on A97 and moving to the latest/greatest by years end. In spite of potential problems if you like better XML support and cool hooks from .NET world then it's still an interesting upgrade IMHO. The SharePoint stuff seems pretty neat too. But would I upgrade a client if I didn't have a reason too? NO!!! Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Thanks for the encouragement, Brett!! I just got thru spending a (minor) fortune for an upgrade to Windows XP Pro (OS) and Office 2003 (XP) Pro. I was looking forward to getting familiar with all the new "bells and whistles" in Access 2003, but from what you're saying it looks like all I can look forward to is nothing but problems ... :-((( Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Aug 17 14:48:38 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:48:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Kathryn: If you are calling a function from a query that function must be set to PUBLIC. Example: Public Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, .... HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place I'm doing something wrong. I clicked on Modules and then on New. I pasted in the Function code. Named the module SplitDeathPlace. Compiled it. Saved it. First indication something not right is that when I'm back at Modules, the SplitDeathPlace doesn't show up. But when I click on new again, it is there. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessmodulesplitdeathplace.jpg Thinking that there is a reason it's not showing, I go on to next step and make an (update) query. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessquerysplitdeathplace.jpg When I try to run it, I get: Undefined function 'SplitDeathPlace' in expression Does not showing on the main screen right panel when clicking on modules on main screen left panel have anything to do with this? This is the first module I've made, so maybe how I did it was wrong? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:04 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Then put this in a module: > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) AS String > Dim strArray() As String > strArray=Split(strPlace,", ") > SplitDeathPlace=strArray(intPos) > End Function > > And in your query, put the following for DeathCity: > > SplitDeathPlace([DeathPlace],0) > > Replace the 0 with 1 for deathcounty, and 2 for deathstate > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn > Bassett > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:57 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Yes > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 14:59:25 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:59:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BA@main2.marlow.com> Name the module modSplitDeathPlace. Having the module, and function, with the same name, is what is kicking up that error. Also, I just ran the code against the copy I had...change the code to this: Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) As String Dim strArray() As String strArray = Split(strPlace, ",") If intPos > UBound(strArray) Then SplitDeathPlace = "" Else SplitDeathPlace = Trim(strArray(intPos)) End If End Function That should handle any issues that pop up. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place I'm doing something wrong. I clicked on Modules and then on New. I pasted in the Function code. Named the module SplitDeathPlace. Compiled it. Saved it. First indication something not right is that when I'm back at Modules, the SplitDeathPlace doesn't show up. But when I click on new again, it is there. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessmodulesplitdeathplace.jpg Thinking that there is a reason it's not showing, I go on to next step and make an (update) query. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessquerysplitdeathplace.jpg When I try to run it, I get: Undefined function 'SplitDeathPlace' in expression Does not showing on the main screen right panel when clicking on modules on main screen left panel have anything to do with this? This is the first module I've made, so maybe how I did it was wrong? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:04 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Then put this in a module: > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) AS String > Dim strArray() As String > strArray=Split(strPlace,", ") > SplitDeathPlace=strArray(intPos) > End Function > > And in your query, put the following for DeathCity: > > SplitDeathPlace([DeathPlace],0) > > Replace the 0 with 1 for deathcounty, and 2 for deathstate > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn > Bassett > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:57 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Yes > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 17 15:03:02 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:03:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: Yeah, but 2003 got a service pack within months .... Does that suggest how badly it needed that SP?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Tue Aug 17 15:15:26 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:15:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FEDA3@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FEDA3@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <4122675E.3080505@verizon.net> Jim DeMarco wrote On 8/17/2004 12:25 PM: >Don't believe that A2K3 is all that bad. We're still on A97 and moving to the latest/greatest by years end. In spite of potential problems if you like better XML support and cool hooks from .NET world then it's still an interesting upgrade IMHO. The SharePoint stuff seems pretty neat too. > >But would I upgrade a client if I didn't have a reason too? NO!!! > > A2003 has a lot of neat new features, heck One looke at the circuitboard image on the splash screen clued me in on that right away. ;o). What I'm NOT liking is the use of the digital certificate that MS forces your users to click on now a days. This is to help the clueless users ensure that they will be protected from "unauthorized" software. Yet when you download anything from WinAmp to TaxCut, you never get a question of "ARE YOU SURE YOU WISH TO RUN THIS UNSIGNED DOCUMENT?", that's not going to promote healthy computing, it's only going to make your users Question why you didn't create a digital signature. When you finally do, they'll ask why they have to authorize it. I find that pointless and a hassle with newbee users. Other than that, I can't find too many bad things to say about it, but I don't use A2003, I'm still developing in A2000. -- -Francisco From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 15:24:39 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:24:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BC@main2.marlow.com> Just out of curiousity, what version is the application in? I never used 2.0, but as many listers have posted, it's rock solid. 95 was horribly flaky, but 97 is as solid as it gets. I don't think they've improved on 97's performance at all (at least I haven't heard of any performance increases). Sounds like there is a different reason to push an upgrade, other then this Access App. In fact, Access applications are one of the largest tasks involved in an upgrade. Our company still uses Office 97 on all of it's 150+ work stations. There are newer versions of Outlook on some machines, but that's it. We do plan on eventually upgrading to a newer version of Office, when the budget allows. Two issues we will be concerned with, at that time, is getting it installed network wide, and ensuring all of our .mdb's are working. There are not many 'coded' .mdb's on the network, mostly querries/reports. 95% of the stuff I have done either have VB or ASP front ends, so an upgrade won't affect them. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Catherine Blansett Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:05 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Hi, I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional database program for her non-profit agency (front-end and back-end). She is receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no reason to do this. Is there any reason to move? Thanks Catherine -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pjewett at bayplace.com Tue Aug 17 15:25:07 2004 From: pjewett at bayplace.com (Phil Jewett) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:25:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Pass Through to DTS package (Lonnie Johnson) Message-ID: I've always run my DTS packages by putting the command in a stored procedure and running that. But I imagine you could put the command line directly in the pass-through query; e.g. exec master.dbo.xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /Fc:\mydts\DTS_mypackage.dts /NDTS_mypackage' Phil Jewett >Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 15:25:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:25:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: OT-Canada north? Since when? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BD@main2.marlow.com> Ah, but to someone living in Dallas, ya'all up north...darn yanks! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bucher, Dave Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] RE: OT-Canada north? Since when? As a Minnesotan who lives SOUTH of MOST Canadians, a review of latitudes is in order. In St. Paul we are, in fact, slightly north of Toronto. My wife is Canadian/American and heads south for there frequently. I now refer to Canada as "over there". (Continued thanks to this list for all the Access help.) :) Dave Bucher Information Technology Specialist Children's Research, Planning and Evaluation Minnesota Dept. of Human Services -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Tue Aug 17 15:31:46 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:31:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1ED@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> What did the service pack fix? Does 2003 have any major problems? Some folks on this list mentioned that when developing in XP they use A2K file format because of the bloat problem. Is there any such problem with 2003? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Yeah, but 2003 got a service pack within months .... Does that suggest how badly it needed that SP?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 15:43:21 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:43:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BE@main2.marlow.com> I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? >Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. Badmouthing Clippy will make you no friends! ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 15:46:30 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:46:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BF@main2.marlow.com> Two situations. commas in Text....Yes, just use a text delimiter, such as double quotes. Then access will ignore any commas in double quoted text. The other situation, would be if you were using a number system which uses the comma instead of the period for a decimal point. Not sure how to get around that one.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Is there some "break" character that I can place in front of or around a comma to tell Access' wizard that links comma delimited files that a comma is not a field separator but a real data in the data? IOW 27 Heath Way, #27 turns into two fields when imported (skewing the data) where I really want to pull the data into a single field. I can replace the comma with a tab but would like to solve this problem for the future. JWC From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 17 15:47:34 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:47:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E174490DE@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: <20040817204735.CGPH1756.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I switched to 2003 -- I have to as soon as they're out. Granted, I don't "develop" the way you guys do, but honestly, I've not had any problems with it. And there are a few new features that some folks will find handy -- not earth-shaking or anything -- but nice. Susan H. Thanks for the encouragement, Brett!! I just got thru spending a (minor) fortune for an upgrade to Windows XP Pro (OS) and Office 2003 (XP) Pro. I was looking forward to getting familiar with all the new "bells and whistles" in Access 2003, but from what you're saying it looks like all I can look forward to is nothing but problems ... :-((( From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue Aug 17 15:47:54 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:47:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Message-ID: I had data that had quotation marks (single and double), commas, preformatted tabs as well as preformatted multiple spaces...I ended up using the tilde character (~) as my delimiter...so far so good;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Is there some "break" character that I can place in front of or around a comma to tell Access' wizard that links comma delimited files that a comma is not a field separator but a real data in the data? IOW 27 Heath Way, #27 turns into two fields when imported (skewing the data) where I really want to pull the data into a single field. I can replace the comma with a tab but would like to solve this problem for the future. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N "" /A =', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Aug 17 15:48:18 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] RE: Pass Through to DTS package (Lonnie Johnson) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040817204818.9447.qmail@web20425.mail.yahoo.com> Is mydts a folder? Phil Jewett wrote:I've always run my DTS packages by putting the command in a stored procedure and running that. But I imagine you could put the command line directly in the pass-through query; e.g. exec master.dbo.xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /Fc:\mydts\DTS_mypackage.dts /NDTS_mypackage' Phil Jewett >Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 15:49:08 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:49:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2C0@main2.marlow.com> Public is the default (isn't it?). Kathryn named the module the same as the function, which is what was throughing the query off. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place Hi Kathryn: If you are calling a function from a query that function must be set to PUBLIC. Example: Public Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, .... HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of KathrynAtGwens Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place I'm doing something wrong. I clicked on Modules and then on New. I pasted in the Function code. Named the module SplitDeathPlace. Compiled it. Saved it. First indication something not right is that when I'm back at Modules, the SplitDeathPlace doesn't show up. But when I click on new again, it is there. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessmodulesplitdeathplace.jpg Thinking that there is a reason it's not showing, I go on to next step and make an (update) query. http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessquerysplitdeathplace.jpg When I try to run it, I get: Undefined function 'SplitDeathPlace' in expression Does not showing on the main screen right panel when clicking on modules on main screen left panel have anything to do with this? This is the first module I've made, so maybe how I did it was wrong? -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:04 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Then put this in a module: > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) AS String > Dim strArray() As String > strArray=Split(strPlace,", ") > SplitDeathPlace=strArray(intPos) > End Function > > And in your query, put the following for DeathCity: > > SplitDeathPlace([DeathPlace],0) > > Replace the 0 with 1 for deathcounty, and 2 for deathstate > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn > Bassett > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:57 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Yes > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 17 15:50:50 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:50:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040817205051.CJCS1756.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Priceless. ;) Susan H. I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 17 16:09:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:09:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2C2@main2.marlow.com> Thanks....just felt like goofing around a bit. I couldn't stop laughing while making that image though..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Priceless. ;) Susan H. I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Tue Aug 17 16:09:06 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:09:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658CA@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Hey, hold on a sec! Nobody said that 2003 was "nothing but problems". It's a simple industry fact (MS or otherwise, though some are buggier than others) that a new version release contains inherent bugs. These bugs take time to compile, investigate and fix, resulting in hotfixes and service packs. You like the bells and whistles in Office 2003? Me too, that's why I upgraded. But to make the purchase because it will "work better with their upgraded machines"? That's just nonsense! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Thanks for the encouragement, Brett!! I just got thru spending a (minor) fortune for an upgrade to Windows XP Pro (OS) and Office 2003 (XP) Pro. I was looking forward to getting familiar with all the new "bells and whistles" in Access 2003, but from what you're saying it looks like all I can look forward to is nothing but problems ... :-((( Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 17 16:17:25 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:17:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: I understand that the bloat problem is still around in 2003, but I can't tell you that from experience. Most of the developers I know world-wide are still using 2000 or 2002. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? What did the service pack fix? Does 2003 have any major problems? Some folks on this list mentioned that when developing in XP they use A2K file format because of the bloat problem. Is there any such problem with 2003? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Yeah, but 2003 got a service pack within months .... Does that suggest how badly it needed that SP?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Aug 17 16:31:20 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658C8@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <20040817213120.38633.qmail@web20424.mail.yahoo.com> OK, I got this to run successfully but it is not actually updating my records. When I take out the NO_OUTPUT it actually says 42 records affected. But when I look in the table, they are not chaged. This is my command... EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S "SQLSVR1" /E /N "TestPackage" /A ', NO_OUTPUT Can you see anything wrong? Brett Barabash wrote: Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N " Name>" /A = ', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. From JHewson at karta.com Tue Aug 17 16:33:42 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:33:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1F5@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Thanks. Are you using the 2000 format with 2003? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? I understand that the bloat problem is still around in 2003, but I can't tell you that from experience. Most of the developers I know world-wide are still using 2000 or 2002. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? What did the service pack fix? Does 2003 have any major problems? Some folks on this list mentioned that when developing in XP they use A2K file format because of the bloat problem. Is there any such problem with 2003? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Yeah, but 2003 got a service pack within months .... Does that suggest how badly it needed that SP?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From MPorter at acsalaska.com Tue Aug 17 16:34:42 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:34:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] RE: OT-Canada north? Since when? Message-ID: <635B80FE6C7D5A409586A6A110D97D170E4C3F@ACSANCHOR.corp.acsalaska.com> And to us Alaskans...well...we won't go there and further upset the list masters over this OT thread ;) I'll leave Texas alone as well - heh. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:26 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: OT-Canada north? Since when? > > > Ah, but to someone living in Dallas, ya'all up north...darn > yanks! grin> > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bucher, Dave > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:45 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] RE: OT-Canada north? Since when? > > > As a Minnesotan who lives SOUTH of MOST Canadians, a review > of latitudes is > in order. In St. Paul we are, in fact, slightly north of > Toronto. My wife > is Canadian/American and heads south for there frequently. I > now refer to > Canada as "over there". > > (Continued thanks to this list for all the Access help.) > > :) > > Dave Bucher > Information Technology Specialist > Children's Research, Planning and Evaluation > Minnesota Dept. of Human Services > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > *********************************************************************************** 17/8/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: InterScan_Disclaimer.txt URL: From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Aug 17 16:36:26 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:36:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? References: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E1ED@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Message-ID: <41227A5A.2010105@shaw.ca> Not much in Access just problems with conversion dialog box and security hot fixes Mostly for Word Excel and Outlook. Office 2003 SP1 download http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=9C51D3A6-7CB1-4F61-837E-5F938254FC47&displaylang=en List of changes http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=842532 Jim Hewson wrote: >What did the service pack fix? >Does 2003 have any major problems? >Some folks on this list mentioned that when developing in XP they use A2K file format because of the bloat problem. Is there any such problem with 2003? > >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:03 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > >Yeah, but 2003 got a service pack within months .... Does that suggest >how badly it needed that SP?? > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] >Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:55 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > >Ooh you forgot one: >6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. > >We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't >upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes >at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced >with each new version. > >And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on >Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that >tend to break office applications). > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H >Tapia >Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > >Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: > > > >>Hi Catherine >> >>As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >> >> > > > >>is No. >> >>Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. >> >> >> >> >Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: > >1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign >2) You're running Ms Access 95 >3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses >Activation Keys. >4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. >5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: > You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. > >I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade > >-- >-Francisco > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >-------------------------------------------- >The information in this email may contain confidential information that >is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the >intended >recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the >taking >of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly >prohibited. If >transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the >sender >immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are >prohibited >from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required >to >destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > >Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, >except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be >the views of Tappe Construction Co. > >This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for >the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition >of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in >conjunction with virus detection software. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From kathryn at bassett.net Tue Aug 17 16:42:01 2004 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:42:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BA@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <391ph9$69d623@mxip02a.cluster1.charter.net> Works but... Got message at work just before I left and followed your suggestions. It does the update but my results don't look right on first glance. Didn't have time to see what is going on. I'm going to try to work on it here at home today or tomorrow to see if my first glance at results was playing games or now. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 17 Aug 2004 12:59 pm > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > Name the module modSplitDeathPlace. Having the module, and > function, with the same name, is what is kicking up that error. > > Also, I just ran the code against the copy I had...change the > code to this: > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) > As String Dim strArray() As String strArray = Split(strPlace, > ",") If intPos > UBound(strArray) Then > SplitDeathPlace = "" > Else > SplitDeathPlace = Trim(strArray(intPos)) End If End Function > > That should handle any issues that pop up. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > KathrynAtGwens > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:01 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > I'm doing something wrong. > I clicked on Modules and then on New. I pasted in the > Function code. Named the module SplitDeathPlace. Compiled it. > Saved it. First indication something not right is that when > I'm back at Modules, the SplitDeathPlace doesn't show up. But > when I click on new again, it is there. > http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessmodulesplitdeathplace.jpg > > Thinking that there is a reason it's not showing, I go on to > next step and make an (update) query. > http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessquerysplitdeathplace.jpg > When I try to run it, I get: > Undefined function 'SplitDeathPlace' in expression > > Does not showing on the main screen right panel when clicking > on modules on main screen left panel have anything to do with this? > > This is the first module I've made, so maybe how I did it was wrong? > > -- > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:04 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > > > Then put this in a module: > > > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As > Long) AS String > > Dim strArray() As String strArray=Split(strPlace,", ") > > SplitDeathPlace=strArray(intPos) > > End Function > > > > And in your query, put the following for DeathCity: > > > > SplitDeathPlace([DeathPlace],0) > > > > Replace the 0 with 1 for deathcounty, and 2 for deathstate > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn > > Bassett > > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:57 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > > > Yes > > > > -- > > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my > bag" "GH is > > my soap" > > kathryn at bassett.net > > http://bassett.net > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > > > > > Drew > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 17 16:43:34 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:43:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: I'm not using 2003. I still stick with 2002, 2000 and 97. I'll need to add 2003 eventually just to stay current, but I see no reason to upgrade my entire Office. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Thanks. Are you using the 2000 format with 2003? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? I understand that the bloat problem is still around in 2003, but I can't tell you that from experience. Most of the developers I know world-wide are still using 2000 or 2002. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? What did the service pack fix? Does 2003 have any major problems? Some folks on this list mentioned that when developing in XP they use A2K file format because of the bloat problem. Is there any such problem with 2003? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Yeah, but 2003 got a service pack within months .... Does that suggest how badly it needed that SP?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 17 16:54:32 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:54:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ohh I like that. Can the link table wizard accept that? JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data I had data that had quotation marks (single and double), commas, preformatted tabs as well as preformatted multiple spaces...I ended up using the tilde character (~) as my delimiter...so far so good;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Is there some "break" character that I can place in front of or around a comma to tell Access' wizard that links comma delimited files that a comma is not a field separator but a real data in the data? IOW 27 Heath Way, #27 turns into two fields when imported (skewing the data) where I really want to pull the data into a single field. I can replace the comma with a tab but would like to solve this problem for the future. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N "" /A =', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 17 16:59:18 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:59:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2C2@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: ROTFLMAO. You left out "commit suicide" JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 5:09 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Thanks....just felt like goofing around a bit. I couldn't stop laughing while making that image though..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Priceless. ;) Susan H. I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mastercafe at ctv.es Tue Aug 17 17:26:44 2004 From: mastercafe at ctv.es (MastercafeCTV) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:26:44 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access XP Bug In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC9@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <004f01c484a9$476901a0$0500a8c0@masterserver> Last two month we develope a tool for tale any report and send to any format. This tool run nice before we make some changes to improve there possibilities. We found that the new version only run one or two times on any version of our applications, the error that you can find in the second time that you use is: NOT ENOUGH MEMORY. Check all code, make some changes, and many more things to look for this error. The main problem was that the form run correct only 1 time on each application, the nest time MEMORY ERROR. This week we found the problem: is you put a ComboBox with the assistant you can see that combo limitations is 20 fields. But is you make the combo manually you can put more than 20 fields. Well... This is the bug, if you put more than 20 fields the combo produce and OUT OF MEMORY on the form for the next run. If any person from the group are interested over this utility we can send by mail (one note all comments are in Spanish). Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 17 17:35:35 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:35:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access XP Bug Message-ID: But why would you *want* a combobox with 20 fields in it?! I agree, it is a bug to allow it if it breaks the app, but using 20 fields is probably a poor way to get where you want to go anyhow. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MastercafeCTV [mailto:mastercafe at ctv.es] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access XP Bug Last two month we develope a tool for tale any report and send to any format. This tool run nice before we make some changes to improve there possibilities. We found that the new version only run one or two times on any version of our applications, the error that you can find in the second time that you use is: NOT ENOUGH MEMORY. Check all code, make some changes, and many more things to look for this error. The main problem was that the form run correct only 1 time on each application, the nest time MEMORY ERROR. This week we found the problem: is you put a ComboBox with the assistant you can see that combo limitations is 20 fields. But is you make the combo manually you can put more than 20 fields. Well... This is the bug, if you put more than 20 fields the combo produce and OUT OF MEMORY on the form for the next run. If any person from the group are interested over this utility we can send by mail (one note all comments are in Spanish). Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Tue Aug 17 17:37:41 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:37:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Message-ID: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658CD@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> You can omit the /A if you aren't passing in parameter values. Are there any other messages given? Depending on your package transaction setup, it may rollback the works if it doesn't succeed on any one of the steps. Are you sure that this package is working properly (i.e. have you tested it from the DTS package designer?) Can you test it from a command prompt on the server? Query Analyzer? And the most important one of all. Make sure that the account running the stored procedure has proper access rights: - In Enterprise Manager, expand the Management folder - Right click on the SQL Server Agent Properties - Check the Non-SysAdmin job step proxy account section. - If it is unchecked, then only SysAdmins can use xp_cmdshell. - If it is checked, then ensure that the Proxy Account is pointing to an account with SysAdmin rights. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package --------------------------------------------------------------- OK, I got this to run successfully but it is not actually updating my records. When I take out the NO_OUTPUT it actually says 42 records affected. But when I look in the table, they are not chaged. This is my command... EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S "SQLSVR1" /E /N "TestPackage" /A ', NO_OUTPUT Can you see anything wrong? Brett Barabash wrote: Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N " Name>" /A = ', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Aug 17 17:40:50 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:40:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Very funny.... Has John seen this? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? >Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. Badmouthing Clippy will make you no friends! ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mastercafe at ctv.es Tue Aug 17 17:46:40 2004 From: mastercafe at ctv.es (MastercafeCTV) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:46:40 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access XP Bug In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005b01c484ac$1e963ba0$0500a8c0@masterserver> Yes... Some times to make less code use this trick to put field.column(n) in the rest of fields on the form, but for this... I'm sure that it's not the way to take. We change this open the database and taking the fields information. Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: mi?rcoles, 18 de agosto de 2004 00:36 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access XP Bug But why would you *want* a combobox with 20 fields in it?! I agree, it is a bug to allow it if it breaks the app, but using 20 fields is probably a poor way to get where you want to go anyhow. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MastercafeCTV [mailto:mastercafe at ctv.es] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access XP Bug Last two month we develope a tool for tale any report and send to any format. This tool run nice before we make some changes to improve there possibilities. We found that the new version only run one or two times on any version of our applications, the error that you can find in the second time that you use is: NOT ENOUGH MEMORY. Check all code, make some changes, and many more things to look for this error. The main problem was that the form run correct only 1 time on each application, the nest time MEMORY ERROR. This week we found the problem: is you put a ComboBox with the assistant you can see that combo limitations is 20 fields. But is you make the combo manually you can put more than 20 fields. Well... This is the bug, if you put more than 20 fields the combo produce and OUT OF MEMORY on the form for the next run. If any person from the group are interested over this utility we can send by mail (one note all comments are in Spanish). Juan ================================ Mastercafe S.L. NIF - B82.617.614 c/ Pi?eres 4, 1?D (33430 Candas - Asturias) Juan Menendez Crespo juan at mastercafe.com www.mastercafe.com info at mastercafe.com ================================ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pjewett at bayplace.com Tue Aug 17 18:00:08 2004 From: pjewett at bayplace.com (Phil Jewett) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:00:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Pass Through to DTS package Message-ID: To clarify, I have always kept my DTS packages as files, not as database objects - thus the odd syntax. So my file in the below example is 'c:\mydts\DTS_mypackage.dts'. Note that the path/filename must always be from the SQL Server's point of view. But I must add that I never liked using DTS, as it is so inherently obscure, from design through execution. Nowadays I bulk insert if there is a whole lot of records to get the records into the database, and then use regular insert/update stored procedures to transform the data. You can use functions in SQL 2000, and thus get pretty fancy with data massaging. Phil Jewett >Is mydts a folder? Phil Jewett wrote:I've always run my DTS packages by putting the command in a stored procedure and running that. But I imagine you could put the command line directly in the pass-through query; e.g. exec master.dbo.xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /Fc:\mydts\DTS_mypackage.dts /NDTS_mypackage' >Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 17 18:21:27 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:21:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: LOL. The least clippy could do is offer to send me an email so I can help the poor guy out. ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Very funny.... Has John seen this? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? >Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. Badmouthing Clippy will make you no friends! ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes the critical bugs introduced with each new version. And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit library upgrades that tend to break office applications). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: >Hi Catherine > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the short answer >is No. > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign 2) You're running Ms Access 95 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your software uses Activation Keys. 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade -- -Francisco ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Aug 17 18:31:56 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:31:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) In-Reply-To: <12638296.1092760713862.JavaMail.root@sniper6.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <001501c484b2$630f2ac0$de1811d8@danwaters> Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Aug 17 18:31:57 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:31:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <19088718.1092766524873.JavaMail.root@sniper12.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <001601c484b2$63728070$de1811d8@danwaters> Catherine, If Access 95 is being used, upgrade right away. Access 97 was much more reliable. Access 2000 includes a 'compact on close' option that is pretty useful where people can't (or won't) compact regularly. Access 2002 includes a Me.OpenArgs property for reports that is really nice to program with. If you end up using A02 or A03, keep the database in A00 format. There is a bug in A02 and A03 that can bloat the database if the format is not left in A00. BTW, if you can get a copy of the Access 2002 Developer's Handbook, it has a good description of the changes that occurred from Access 2.0 to Access 2002. Also, what is the belief that a newer version of Access will run better on their upgraded machines? ANY version of Access will run better on ANY upgraded machine. Best of Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Catherine Blansett Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:05 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Hi, I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional database program for her non-profit agency (front-end and back-end). She is receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no reason to do this. Is there any reason to move? Thanks Catherine -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 17 19:03:26 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:03:26 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: <00c501c484b6$c946a120$4a619a89@uwsm009469> Hello all This is way OT so any replies please send them to d.dick at uws.edu.au In Outlook Express it seems to me I can only apply rules to INCOMING MAIL. Is this correct? If I can set up rules for outgoing mail can some one please tell me how? Have a great day Darren From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 17 19:10:15 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:10:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: Far as I know, that's the way it works in Outlook too. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:03 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Hello all This is way OT so any replies please send them to d.dick at uws.edu.au In Outlook Express it seems to me I can only apply rules to INCOMING MAIL. Is this correct? If I can set up rules for outgoing mail can some one please tell me how? Have a great day Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Aug 17 19:13:00 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:13:00 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access no longer prompts In-Reply-To: <20040817151200.48C402504C3@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <41232BAC.21161.3FF7791@lexacorp.com.pg> On 17 Aug 2004 at 16:12, Andy Lacey wrote: > Or it could be that a routine somewhere sets warnings off and doesn't set > them back on. You can soon prove this by knocking up a macro that does a > SetWarnings True or a function that just does a DoCmd.Setwarnings True, then > running it Or just do a Ctrl+G and enter "Docmd.Setwarnings True" in the Immediate Window. -- Stuart From andrew.curtis at wapl.com.au Tue Aug 17 19:19:46 2004 From: andrew.curtis at wapl.com.au (Curtis, Andrew (WAPL)) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:19:46 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: Outlook 2003: Tools->rules and alerts New Rule Start from Blank rule Check messages when they arrive OR check messages after sending is available. Outlook express only does incoming Outlook 97,2k,XP have similar setup options to 2003 Regards, Andrew Curtis -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2004 8:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Far as I know, that's the way it works in Outlook too. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:03 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Hello all This is way OT so any replies please send them to d.dick at uws.edu.au In Outlook Express it seems to me I can only apply rules to INCOMING MAIL. Is this correct? If I can set up rules for outgoing mail can some one please tell me how? Have a great day Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION If you receive this confidential communication by mistake, please contact the sender immediately by return electronic mail. Worsley Alumina Pty Ltd ABN 58 008 905 155 is the manager of the Worsley Joint Venture - Bauxite/Alumina Operation. Liability and responsibility of the Joint Venturers is several in accordance with the following schedule of participating interests: Billiton Aluminium (RAA) Pty Ltd 56 percent, Billiton Aluminium (Worsley) Pty Ltd 30 percent, Japan Alumina Associates (Australia) Pty Ltd 10 percent, Sojitz Alumina Pty Ltd 4 percent. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Aug 17 19:29:15 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:29:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: Have you ever tried it on outgoing? I can set up a rule, but I can't get it to run on anything but the inbox. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Curtis, Andrew (WAPL) [mailto:andrew.curtis at wapl.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Outlook 2003: Tools->rules and alerts New Rule Start from Blank rule Check messages when they arrive OR check messages after sending is available. Outlook express only does incoming Outlook 97,2k,XP have similar setup options to 2003 Regards, Andrew Curtis -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2004 8:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Far as I know, that's the way it works in Outlook too. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:03 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Hello all This is way OT so any replies please send them to d.dick at uws.edu.au In Outlook Express it seems to me I can only apply rules to INCOMING MAIL. Is this correct? If I can set up rules for outgoing mail can some one please tell me how? Have a great day Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION If you receive this confidential communication by mistake, please contact the sender immediately by return electronic mail. Worsley Alumina Pty Ltd ABN 58 008 905 155 is the manager of the Worsley Joint Venture - Bauxite/Alumina Operation. Liability and responsibility of the Joint Venturers is several in accordance with the following schedule of participating interests: Billiton Aluminium (RAA) Pty Ltd 56 percent, Billiton Aluminium (Worsley) Pty Ltd 30 percent, Japan Alumina Associates (Australia) Pty Ltd 10 percent, Sojitz Alumina Pty Ltd 4 percent. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From blansett at holly.colostate.edu Tue Aug 17 19:25:02 2004 From: blansett at holly.colostate.edu (Catherine Blansett) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:25:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BC@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <003401c484b9$cde26900$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> The application is in 97. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:24 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > Just out of curiousity, what version is the application in? > > I never used 2.0, but as many listers have posted, it's rock solid. 95 was > horribly flaky, but 97 is as solid as it gets. I don't think they've > improved on 97's performance at all (at least I haven't heard of any > performance increases). > > Sounds like there is a different reason to push an upgrade, other then this > Access App. > > In fact, Access applications are one of the largest tasks involved in an > upgrade. Our company still uses Office 97 on all of it's 150+ work > stations. There are newer versions of Outlook on some machines, but that's > it. We do plan on eventually upgrading to a newer version of Office, when > the budget allows. Two issues we will be concerned with, at that time, is > getting it installed network wide, and ensuring all of our .mdb's are > working. There are not many 'coded' .mdb's on the network, mostly > querries/reports. 95% of the stuff I have done either have VB or ASP front > ends, so an upgrade won't affect them. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Catherine > Blansett > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:05 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > Hi, > > I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to > make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional > database program for her non-profit agency (front-end and back-end). She is > receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it > will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no > reason to do this. > > Is there any reason to move? > > Thanks > > Catherine > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 17 19:39:01 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:39:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules References: Message-ID: <011a01c484bb$c1a36c00$4a619a89@uwsm009469> Hi Charlotte Incoming no problem (That's what it defaults to and you can't edit it) Outgoing - No Can Do I have had some replies that say it can't be done in OExpress Many thanks Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:29 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > Have you ever tried it on outgoing? I can set up a rule, but I can't > get it to run on anything but the inbox. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Curtis, Andrew (WAPL) [mailto:andrew.curtis at wapl.com.au] > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > Outlook 2003: > Tools->rules and alerts > New Rule > Start from Blank rule > Check messages when they arrive OR check messages after sending is > available. > > Outlook express only does incoming > Outlook 97,2k,XP have similar setup options to 2003 > > Regards, > > Andrew Curtis > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2004 8:10 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > Far as I know, that's the way it works in Outlook too. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:03 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > Hello all > > This is way OT so any replies please send them to d.dick at uws.edu.au > > In Outlook Express it seems to me I can only apply rules to INCOMING > MAIL. Is this correct? If I can set up rules for outgoing mail can some > one please tell me how? > > Have a great day > > Darren > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION > If you receive this confidential communication by mistake, please > contact the sender immediately by return electronic mail. Worsley > Alumina Pty Ltd ABN 58 008 905 155 is the manager of the Worsley Joint > Venture - Bauxite/Alumina Operation. Liability and responsibility of the > Joint Venturers is several in accordance with the following schedule of > participating interests: Billiton Aluminium (RAA) Pty Ltd 56 percent, > Billiton Aluminium (Worsley) Pty Ltd 30 percent, Japan Alumina > Associates (Australia) Pty Ltd 10 percent, Sojitz Alumina Pty Ltd 4 > percent. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Aug 17 20:04:19 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:04:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] MS Tool to block WinXP SP2 update References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BC@main2.marlow.com> <003401c484b9$cde26900$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> Message-ID: <4122AB13.9010008@shaw.ca> For those that need it. There is a network domain version somewhere too. This tool sets a registry key to block WinXP SP2 for 4 months http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=8BCE6BBA-EA5D-4425-89C1-C1CB1CCD463C&displaylang=en -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From John.Fejsa at hunter.health.nsw.gov.au Tue Aug 17 20:10:38 2004 From: John.Fejsa at hunter.health.nsw.gov.au (John Fejsa) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:10:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] EXCEL 2002: How do I user/simulate a Timer event in Excel form Message-ID: Hi Everyone I have a very long import procedure that's executed from a menu option. I would like to open an "Import" message form and animate a file flying from one side of the form (one folder) to the other side (another folder) until the import is completed. I can easily do it with other applications but find very hard to do with Excel forms, for example when I use Microsoft Access, I use a Timer event and move the file fractionally every few seconds to simulate the movement. However, Excel forms do not appear to have Timer events like Access or VB. I tried to simulate a time event with Excel form but without success; can anyone help? I tried various methods with Excel but none worked. "Application.OnTime" looks promising but it does not work for me. Below is one method I used to test the procedure (while testing I just tried to show one image and hide another). Rather then having " BlinkMover" procedure executing every second as expected, the procedure acually executes only once (only when the calling "OpenSession" procedure is finished; defeats the reason for using the timer...) Any help would be greatly appreciated. Global variable =========== Public fBlinkMover As Boolean 'used with OPSES form to indicate whether to blink Public dTime 'Used to set time when to fire BlinkMover Procedure Procedures ========= Public Sub OpenSession() strFileToOpen = Application.GetOpenFilename("Workbook (*.xls), *.xls", , "Open your existing AIP session") If strFileToOpen <> False Then 'BLINKING procedure start 'START Blinking fBlinkMover = True 'Start BLINKING OPSES.Show 'Opne OPSES form - this form only has two images at the moment (imgPic1 and imgPic2 DoEvents dTime = Now + TimeValue("00:00:01") 'Set time to one second from now Application.OnTime dTime, "BlinkMover" 'Instruct the application to run "BlinkMover" procedure one second from now ...Do other work here... Workbooks.Open Filename:=strFileToOpen Sheets("Original_data").Select *Deleted code to make the procedure shorter for this email *Etc, etc, etc... 'STOP Blinking fBlinkMover = False 'Stop BLINKING - this will also stop BlinkMover procedure calling itself OPSES.Hide 'Hide OPSES form 'BLINKING procedure stop Sheets("Results").Select MsgBox ("AIP session has now been opened") Else 'User did not open End If End Sub Public Sub BlinkMover() If fBlinkMover Then 'Only execute if fBlinkMover is set to TRUE opses!imgPic1.Visible = Not opses!imgPic2.Visible 'Reverse visiblitiy (Show/Hide) opses!imgPic2.Visible = Not opses!imgPic1.Visible 'Reverse visiblitiy (Show/Hide) opses.Repaint DoEvents dTime = Now + TimeValue("00:00:01") 'Add another second to dTime Application.OnTime dTime, "BlinkMover" 'Call BlinkMover procedure again in one second End If End Sub Thanks for your suggestions. John Fejsa Senior Systems Analyst/Computer Programmer Hunter Population Health Locked Bag 10, WALLSEND NSW 2287 Phone: (02) 4924 6336 Fax: (02) 4924 6209 john.fejsa at hunter.health.nsw.gov.au www.hcha.org.au The doors we open and close each day decide the lives we live. From mcaro at bigpond.net.au Tue Aug 17 21:12:46 2004 From: mcaro at bigpond.net.au (Martin Caro) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 12:12:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Using OutputTo Message-ID: <004a01c484c8$dad9d0d0$0100000a@mitmaster> Hi Folks Just having some syntax issues with applying a filter to the query I'm using in the following: stDocName = "qryLocations" FilePath = "C:\temp\LocationReport.XLS" ExportFilter = Me.Filter DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputQuery, stDocName, acFormatXLS, FilePath, True I need to apply a filter string which I have in a global variable ExportFilter - I've tried setting the query filter property and inserting the filter into the DoCmd line but without success so far. Any suggestions? Martin From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Aug 17 21:41:36 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658CD@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <20040818024136.89958.qmail@web20429.mail.yahoo.com> I'll try removing the /A in the morning. I am at home at the moment. I have the rights to run it. Yep, I ran a test on the package from the package window and from within the package itself. Both times it ran successfully with the changes showing in the table in question. Thanks. I'll let you know what happened. Brett Barabash wrote: You can omit the /A if you aren't passing in parameter values. Are there any other messages given? Depending on your package transaction setup, it may rollback the works if it doesn't succeed on any one of the steps. Are you sure that this package is working properly (i.e. have you tested it from the DTS package designer?) Can you test it from a command prompt on the server? Query Analyzer? And the most important one of all. Make sure that the account running the stored procedure has proper access rights: - In Enterprise Manager, expand the Management folder - Right click on the SQL Server Agent Properties - Check the Non-SysAdmin job step proxy account section. - If it is unchecked, then only SysAdmins can use xp_cmdshell. - If it is checked, then ensure that the Proxy Account is pointing to an account with SysAdmin rights. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package --------------------------------------------------------------- OK, I got this to run successfully but it is not actually updating my records. When I take out the NO_OUTPUT it actually says 42 records affected. But when I look in the table, they are not chaged. This is my command... EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S "SQLSVR1" /E /N "TestPackage" /A ', NO_OUTPUT Can you see anything wrong? Brett Barabash wrote: Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N " Name>" /A = ', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Aug 17 21:43:55 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:43:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] RE: Pass Through to DTS package In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040818024355.90228.qmail@web20429.mail.yahoo.com> Phil I felt so stupid after I sent that mail because I noticed that it was a path and command parameters. Sorry. I will try this method as well. I will have to get the path from the data admin. Phil Jewett wrote:To clarify, I have always kept my DTS packages as files, not as database objects - thus the odd syntax. So my file in the below example is 'c:\mydts\DTS_mypackage.dts'. Note that the path/filename must always be from the SQL Server's point of view. But I must add that I never liked using DTS, as it is so inherently obscure, from design through execution. Nowadays I bulk insert if there is a whole lot of records to get the records into the database, and then use regular insert/update stored procedures to transform the data. You can use functions in SQL 2000, and thus get pretty fancy with data massaging. Phil Jewett >Is mydts a folder? Phil Jewett wrote:I've always run my DTS packages by putting the command in a stored procedure and running that. But I imagine you could put the command line directly in the pass-through query; e.g. exec master.dbo.xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /Fc:\mydts\DTS_mypackage.dts /NDTS_mypackage' >Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! From Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com Wed Aug 18 01:46:58 2004 From: Chris.Foote at uk.thalesgroup.com (Foote, Chris) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 07:46:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <97CF276BD8C6D4119C4B00508BB18DE709E0C2A2@ntscxch1.int.rdel.co.uk> Brilliant Drew! Made my day! Chris Foote (UK) > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 9:43 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned > Clippy on. You're > not going to believe this: > > http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg > > Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! > > Drew From kens.programming at verizon.net Wed Aug 18 02:37:54 2004 From: kens.programming at verizon.net (Ken Stoker) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:37:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Query the Reports Container in an ADP Message-ID: <20040818073616.DVKW28868.out004.verizon.net@enterprise> Can anyone tell me how to query the reports container in an ADP? Or is it even possible? I found a piece of code called DaoDbFromAdoCon at the following site http://www.trigeminal.com/lang/1033/codes.asp?ItemID=1 but am not having much success with it at the moment. If someone has a better approach or knows better how to use this function, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thanks Ken From viner at eunet.yu Wed Aug 18 03:33:59 2004 From: viner at eunet.yu (Ervin Brindza) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:33:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Comma Decimal separator in UPDATE query Message-ID: <001601c484fe$3abf6d40$0100a8c0@razvoj> Hi, I have a comma decimal separator and it isn't work in Update query. I want to open the Products form from "Order Details"(subform), modify the price, and get that new price on the subform. How can I force the Update query to accept it? My query looks like: DoCmd.RunSQL "Update tblOrderDetail set price=" & NewPrice & " where OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product Many thanks in advance Ervin From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed Aug 18 03:51:55 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:51:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <003401c484b9$cde26900$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> Message-ID: <000001c48500$9d595c70$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Then resist all entreaties and stay there. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Catherine Blansett > Sent: 18 August 2004 01:25 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > The application is in 97. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:24 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > > Just out of curiousity, what version is the application in? > > > > I never used 2.0, but as many listers have posted, it's > rock solid. > > 95 > was > > horribly flaky, but 97 is as solid as it gets. I don't > think they've > > improved on 97's performance at all (at least I haven't > heard of any > > performance increases). > > > > Sounds like there is a different reason to push an upgrade, > other then > this > > Access App. > > > > In fact, Access applications are one of the largest tasks > involved in > > an upgrade. Our company still uses Office 97 on all of > it's 150+ work > > stations. There are newer versions of Outlook on some machines, but > that's > > it. We do plan on eventually upgrading to a newer version > of Office, > > when the budget allows. Two issues we will be concerned > with, at that > > time, is getting it installed network wide, and ensuring all of our > > .mdb's are working. There are not many 'coded' .mdb's on > the network, > > mostly querries/reports. 95% of the stuff I have done > either have VB > > or ASP > front > > ends, so an upgrade won't affect them. > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Catherine > > Blansett > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:05 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I > just wanted > > to make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully > > functional database program for her non-profit agency > (front-end and > > back-end). She > is > > receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of > ACCESS so that > > it will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her > > there is no reason to do this. > > > > Is there any reason to move? > > > > Thanks > > > > Catherine > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed Aug 18 03:51:55 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:51:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2BE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000101c48500$9d937f40$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> ROTFL. Brilliant Drew (sorry JC). -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 17 August 2004 21:43 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned > Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: > > http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg > > Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:04 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > >Ooh you forgot one: 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from > >Access > 2. > > Badmouthing Clippy will make you no friends! > > ;-) > > JWC > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > Ooh you forgot one: > 6) That spiffy dancing paper clip is absent from Access 2. > > We waited forever to upgrade our Access 2 apps, and even then > we didn't upgrade to the newest version (2000 instead of XP). > It normally takes at least a year until a service pack fixes > the critical bugs introduced with each new version. > > And I concur with Gustav. Our remaining 2.0 apps run just as > well on Windows XP (and they are immune from any 32-bit > library upgrades that tend to break office applications). > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Francisco H Tapia > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > Gustav Brock wrote On 8/17/2004 11:19 AM: > > >Hi Catherine > > > >As long as you don't see a compelling reason to do so, the > short answer > > >is No. > > > >Even Access 2.0 (16 bit) runs nicely under Windows XP. > > > > > Reason's to upgrade your copy of Access: > > 1) You like to donate to the help out the billionaire campaign > 2) You're running Ms Access 95 > 3) You absolutely sleep better at night knowing all your > software uses Activation Keys. > 4) That $400 is burning a hole in your pocket. > 5) and the final reason to upgrade your copy of Access is: > You dig the latest splash screen in the latest copy of Access. > > I can think of more reasons NOT to upgrade > > -- > -Francisco > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- > ---------------------------------------- > The information in this email may contain confidential > information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of > the intended > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended > recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, or the taking > of any action in regard to the content of this email is > strictly prohibited. If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please > notify the sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information > is/are prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and > is/are required to > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the > individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with > authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been > scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this > message and addition of this footer is performed by > SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus > detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From viner at eunet.yu Wed Aug 18 04:01:07 2004 From: viner at eunet.yu (Ervin Brindza) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:01:07 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Comma Decimal separator in UPDATE query References: <001601c484fe$3abf6d40$0100a8c0@razvoj> Message-ID: <000e01c48501$efc2d080$0100a8c0@razvoj> Solved with(the Price have 2 decmial places): DoCmd.RunSQL "Update tblOrderDetail set price=" & (NewPrice*100) & " where OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product DoCmd.RunSQL "Update tblOrderDetail set price=Price/100 where OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product Ervin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ervin Brindza" To: Sent: 18 August, 2004 10:33 AM Subject: [AccessD] Comma Decimal separator in UPDATE query > Hi, > I have a comma decimal separator and it isn't work in Update query. I want to open the Products form from "Order Details"(subform), modify the price, and get that new price on the subform. How can I force the Update query to accept it? > My query looks like: > DoCmd.RunSQL "Update tblOrderDetail set price=" & NewPrice & " where OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product > Many thanks in advance > Ervin > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 04:07:01 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:07:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Comma Decimal separator in UPDATE query In-Reply-To: <001601c484fe$3abf6d40$0100a8c0@razvoj> References: <001601c484fe$3abf6d40$0100a8c0@razvoj> Message-ID: <1808552387.20040818110701@cactus.dk> Hi Ervin > I have a comma decimal separator and it isn't work in Update query. I want to open the Products form from "Order Details"(subform), modify the price, and get that new price on the subform. How can > I force the Update query to accept it? > My query looks like: > > DoCmd.RunSQL "Update tblOrderDetail set price=" & NewPrice & " where OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product You have two options. Either create a NewPrice100 = Int(NewPrice * 100) Then adjust the SQL: "Update tblOrderDetail set price=" & NewPrice100 & "/100 where OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product Or convert to a string: "Update tblOrderDetail set price=" & Str(NewPrice) & " where OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 04:25:22 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:25:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Filter on Sub-Report In-Reply-To: <059a01c4848e$fae5e790$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <054801c48484$9f9247d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <12940412560.20040817202112@cactus.dk> <056f01c48488$9f2901e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <059a01c4848e$fae5e790$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <1449653901.20040818112522@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky > Well, that worked - copying the sql text into the _Open event of the > sub-reports and then adding the 'HAVING' clauses (these are summation > queries) then appending the ORDER BY clause. > But I'm still curious why I can;'t seem to set the filter on a sub-report. > Is this the case? And is there a workaround? I don't know, but have in mind that the subform is "opened twice" when you open the main form. > Finally, when you modify the query which is the record source of the > sub-report by adding parameters (using querydef, I assume?), do you have to > unset the parameters the next time you run the report if the user has not > selected any filtering? I guess so, but a little testing should reveal that quite quickly ... If you used the Master and Link fields you wouldn't have this trouble. A master field can be an unbound textbox. /gustav >> Mostly because I've always done it the other way and never learned how to >> apply the filters directly to the queries. I have set the recordsource in a >> report by modifying the SQL statement that represents the query. Guess I'll >> try that. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rocky >> >> > Why don't you apply the filter to the queries which drive the >> > subreports? From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 04:28:04 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:28:04 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Comma Decimal separator in UPDATE query In-Reply-To: <000e01c48501$efc2d080$0100a8c0@razvoj> References: <001601c484fe$3abf6d40$0100a8c0@razvoj> <000e01c48501$efc2d080$0100a8c0@razvoj> Message-ID: <709815533.20040818112804@cactus.dk> Hi Ervin OK ... that would be the third and last option! /gustav > Solved with(the Price have 2 decmial places): > DoCmd.RunSQL "Update tblOrderDetail set price=" & (NewPrice*100) & " where > OrderNo=" & Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product > DoCmd.RunSQL "Update tblOrderDetail set price=Price/100 where OrderNo=" & > Order & " and ProductNo=" & Product From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 04:33:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:33:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC9@DISABILITYINS01> References: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDC9@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <7510143415.20040818113332@cactus.dk> Hi John The preferred way is to surround non-numerics by double quotes: ..,"27 Heath Way, #27",456,"Colby, John",.. /gustav > Is there some "break" character that I can place in front of or around a > comma to tell Access' wizard that links comma delimited files that a comma > is not a field separator but a real data in the data? > IOW > 27 Heath Way, #27 turns into two fields when imported (skewing the data) > where I really want to pull the data into a single field. > I can replace the comma with a tab but would like to solve this problem for > the future. From jimdettman at earthlink.net Wed Aug 18 05:02:31 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 06:02:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) In-Reply-To: <001501c484b2$630f2ac0$de1811d8@danwaters> Message-ID: Dan, Basically you close the file for a specific network connection. How you do that depends on the OS that your using. If using Win9x as a 'server', there is no easy way that's built in. There were some utilities floating around to do it, but I'm not sure if they are around anymore. For NT4/Win2000 you do it through Computer Management under admin tools, and Novell through the console. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 7:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 18 06:55:32 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 07:55:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Message-ID: Yes. Just use the "Other" option for the delimiter, and type in the tilde character. And, although Gustav is correct about the double quotes, my data included 3-D model x-y-z coordinate locations denoted in feet & inches...thus my decision to go with the tilde. There is sometimes a method to my madness;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 5:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Ohh I like that. Can the link table wizard accept that? JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data I had data that had quotation marks (single and double), commas, preformatted tabs as well as preformatted multiple spaces...I ended up using the tilde character (~) as my delimiter...so far so good;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] commas in comma delimited data Is there some "break" character that I can place in front of or around a comma to tell Access' wizard that links comma delimited files that a comma is not a field separator but a real data in the data? IOW 27 Heath Way, #27 turns into two fields when imported (skewing the data) where I really want to pull the data into a single field. I can replace the comma with a tab but would like to solve this problem for the future. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Brett Barabash [mailto:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N "" /A =', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 08:09:19 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:09:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A54@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> List, We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: O 100 - 90 V 89 - 80 G 79- 70 I 69 - 60 U Below 60 There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding rating). Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? I hope it's clear what we're trying to accomplish. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan T 914.631.1611 x2309 *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 18 08:24:17 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:24:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A54@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <20040818132418.QKZI1756.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Have you tried a 1 to 10 base? Susan H. Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? I hope it's clear what we're trying to accomplish. From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 18 08:32:00 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:32:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net Message-ID: I'm just about finished converting an Access97 project to ASP.Net with MYSQL backend. I must say that this is pretty cool stuff. Questions: 1)Is the best tool for reports for this situation, Crystal Reports and their web server control? What other options do I have? 2)I haven't implemented any security yet. Should I use Windows authentication or create login pages or use some other method? 3)I'm currently using IIS locally with WinXP Pro, any gotcha's moving the application to my Win2003 Server? 4)I'm using MySQL 4 on the Win2003 Server machine, what problems might I have when moving it to Linux? I have an experienced Linux/Unix administrator to help me, but he is new to MySQL. Here is what my setup will be... Linux for MySQL Windows Server 2003 for IIS (already setup) Each user will have Win2000 or WinXP Pro with IE 6. Scott Marcus From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 08:30:18 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:30:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A58@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> How would I relate that to our current groupings? Would 1 be any grade below 60 (<=59)? Or do you mean apply 1 for <10, 2 for <20, etc.? I can run my samples through this scale if you could explain. Thanks, Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Have you tried a 1 to 10 base? Susan H. Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? I hope it's clear what we're trying to accomplish. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From prodevmg at yahoo.com Wed Aug 18 08:32:24 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 06:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package In-Reply-To: <100F91B31300334B89EC531C9DCB08650658CD@tccexch01.tappeconstruction.net> Message-ID: <20040818133224.21426.qmail@web20427.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Brett, That did it!!!! You da man. Brett Barabash wrote: You can omit the /A if you aren't passing in parameter values. Are there any other messages given? Depending on your package transaction setup, it may rollback the works if it doesn't succeed on any one of the steps. Are you sure that this package is working properly (i.e. have you tested it from the DTS package designer?) Can you test it from a command prompt on the server? Query Analyzer? And the most important one of all. Make sure that the account running the stored procedure has proper access rights: - In Enterprise Manager, expand the Management folder - Right click on the SQL Server Agent Properties - Check the Non-SysAdmin job step proxy account section. - If it is unchecked, then only SysAdmins can use xp_cmdshell. - If it is checked, then ensure that the Proxy Account is pointing to an account with SysAdmin rights. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package --------------------------------------------------------------- OK, I got this to run successfully but it is not actually updating my records. When I take out the NO_OUTPUT it actually says 42 records affected. But when I look in the table, they are not chaged. This is my command... EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S "SQLSVR1" /E /N "TestPackage" /A ', NO_OUTPUT Can you see anything wrong? Brett Barabash wrote: Lonnie, I normally use DTS run from xp_cmdshell: EXEC master..xp_cmdshell 'dtsrun /S /E /N " Name>" /A = ', NO_OUTPUT Notes: /E indicates use trusted connection. Alternatively you can user /U /P for SQL Server security. /A is used for setting global variable values I use the NO_OUTPUT option when executing this from a SQL Server sp, because ADO mistakes the console output for an error message. Type dtsrun /? from the server's command window (or master..xpcmdshell 'dtsrun /?' from a query window) for help on all the switches, or look it up in books online. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:19 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pass Through to DTS package Does anyone know if you can send instructions via a pass though query to start a SQL Sever 2000 DTS package? Anxiously awaiting May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this email is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 18 08:36:49 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:36:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A58@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <20040818133649.QZIT1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Jim, I don't think you can actually equate them, but it seems like the original is based on the 1 to 100 scale, so 1 to 10 ought to be easier to tweak than 1 to 5. That was my only thinking. But yes, 1 could equate to 0 to 10, 2 to 11 to 20, and so on. It's early, only a few cups of coffee and math is NOT my area, but I don't so how you can actually replace one with the other without including decimal values -- 1 to 10 or 1 to 5 -- neither's going to work out to what you're doing now -- but I would "think" that 1 to 10 would get you closer. I've probably misunderstood the problem and misspoken, but I don't think you can substitute either for what you're doing now. I would think you'd have to revamp the system and simply "change over." If that's the case, than 1 to 5 is certainly easier unless you really need the graduated levels for more precise evaluations. Susan H. How would I relate that to our current groupings? Would 1 be any grade below 60 (<=59)? Or do you mean apply 1 for <10, 2 for <20, etc.? I can run my samples through this scale if you could explain. Thanks, Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Have you tried a 1 to 10 base? Susan H. Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? I hope it's clear what we're trying to accomplish. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 08:42:27 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:42:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A59@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> I think you're correct. I did try the 1-10 scenario with about the same results as 1-5. And it seems we are comparing apples to oranges as a range of numbers does not equate to a single digit (at least where averages are concerned). If anyone can tell me otherwise please do but I had more or less come to the same conclusion as Susan but hoping there might something to get the numbers in line. Thanks Susan. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Jim, I don't think you can actually equate them, but it seems like the original is based on the 1 to 100 scale, so 1 to 10 ought to be easier to tweak than 1 to 5. That was my only thinking. But yes, 1 could equate to 0 to 10, 2 to 11 to 20, and so on. It's early, only a few cups of coffee and math is NOT my area, but I don't so how you can actually replace one with the other without including decimal values -- 1 to 10 or 1 to 5 -- neither's going to work out to what you're doing now -- but I would "think" that 1 to 10 would get you closer. I've probably misunderstood the problem and misspoken, but I don't think you can substitute either for what you're doing now. I would think you'd have to revamp the system and simply "change over." If that's the case, than 1 to 5 is certainly easier unless you really need the graduated levels for more precise evaluations. Susan H. How would I relate that to our current groupings? Would 1 be any grade below 60 (<=59)? Or do you mean apply 1 for <10, 2 for <20, etc.? I can run my samples through this scale if you could explain. Thanks, Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Have you tried a 1 to 10 base? Susan H. Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? I hope it's clear what we're trying to accomplish. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 08:45:19 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:45:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A5A@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Scott, I've downloaded a tool called LogiXML. They offer a free single user license so you can download it and try it. I hadn't tried it yet but your post sort of pushed me into it (I'm not really a CR fan so I'm always looking for something else). I was able to very quickly get a simple report pulled from our SQL DB (in minutes actually) and published to my local web. It's worth a look I think. HTH, Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net I'm just about finished converting an Access97 project to ASP.Net with MYSQL backend. I must say that this is pretty cool stuff. Questions: 1)Is the best tool for reports for this situation, Crystal Reports and their web server control? What other options do I have? 2)I haven't implemented any security yet. Should I use Windows authentication or create login pages or use some other method? 3)I'm currently using IIS locally with WinXP Pro, any gotcha's moving the application to my Win2003 Server? 4)I'm using MySQL 4 on the Win2003 Server machine, what problems might I have when moving it to Linux? I have an experienced Linux/Unix administrator to help me, but he is new to MySQL. Here is what my setup will be... Linux for MySQL Windows Server 2003 for IIS (already setup) Each user will have Win2000 or WinXP Pro with IE 6. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 08:53:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:53:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A54@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> References: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A54@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <12025723238.20040818155312@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 09:12:33 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:12:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A5B@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 18 09:17:09 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:17:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net Message-ID: Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net Scott, I've downloaded a tool called LogiXML. They offer a free single user license so you can download it and try it. I hadn't tried it yet but your post sort of pushed me into it (I'm not really a CR fan so I'm always looking for something else). I was able to very quickly get a simple report pulled from our SQL DB (in minutes actually) and published to my local web. It's worth a look I think. HTH, Jim DeMarco From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Wed Aug 18 09:19:48 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:19:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: Yes It works for outgoing - I have several folders with sent messages directed to it. Both Outlook 2000 and 2003 ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 08:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > Have you ever tried it on outgoing? I can set up a rule, but > I can't get it to run on anything but the inbox. > > Charlotte Foust > > From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 09:24:16 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:24:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A5B@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> References: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A5B@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <12927587719.20040818162416@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Oh, it was just an example; I didn't know 4.7 was a magic number. If so, adjust to: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.3) Further, the word "probably" is difficult to handle - you will need exact boundaries to set up formulas. /gustav > Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. > This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 > (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). > I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. > Thanks, > Jim D. --- > Isn't this a normal rounding issue? > If you calculate the final grading as: > FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) > you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. > /gustav >> We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: >> O 100 - 90 >> V 89 - 80 >> G 79- 70 >> I 69 - 60 >> U Below 60 >> There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same >> average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding >> rating). >> Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 18 09:40:18 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:40:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 10:09:16 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:09:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A61@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> There are only 13 categories not 20. 89.9 is the average on the 100 scale. When I convert each grade to a 1-5 value the average is 4.7. Make sense? Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From tim at irwingreenhouses.com Wed Aug 18 10:13:20 2004 From: tim at irwingreenhouses.com (Tim Thiessen) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:13:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A61@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <000e01c48535$e6535b80$7800a8c0@timt> Why not use 0-5 scale? In other words: O 5 - 4 V 4 - 3 G 3 - 2 I 2 - 1 U Below 1 Tim T. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? There are only 13 categories not 20. 89.9 is the average on the 100 scale. When I convert each grade to a 1-5 value the average is 4.7. Make sense? Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 10:21:47 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:21:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A63@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Here are two examples of 4.7 average on a 1-5 scale. Both have different outcomes on a 100 scale. Averages are on the bottom row. Q 1 92 5 90 5 Q 2 90 5 93.5 5 Q 3 95 5 93 5 Q 4 92 5 97.5 5 Q 5 95 5 85 4 Q 6 90 5 89.5 4 Q 7 95 5 85.5 4 Q 8 90 5 98.5 5 Q 9 89 4 87.5 4 Q 10 93.5 5 93 5 Q 11 80 4 95 5 Q 12 82 4 91 5 Q 13 85 4 90 5 Avg 89.9 4.7 91.5 4.7 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? There are only 13 categories not 20. 89.9 is the average on the 100 scale. When I convert each grade to a 1-5 value the average is 4.7. Make sense? Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 18 10:29:54 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:29:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A64@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> They'd like to get rid of ranges and use a single value so as to elimate the "what differentiates an 84 from an 89" question on grading. I was just thinging about using the letter grades and doing a count and averaging that though. I wonder... Thanks Tim. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tim Thiessen Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Why not use 0-5 scale? In other words: O 5 - 4 V 4 - 3 G 3 - 2 I 2 - 1 U Below 1 Tim T. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? There are only 13 categories not 20. 89.9 is the average on the 100 scale. When I convert each grade to a 1-5 value the average is 4.7. Make sense? Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 18 10:36:40 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:36:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: So what did you set it up on, the Outbox? My problem is that I'm logged on to several machines at once, and one of them is sending emails as part of a test, but the sent items are showing up on my own machine where I actually have Outlook running. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Yes It works for outgoing - I have several folders with sent messages directed to it. Both Outlook 2000 and 2003 ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 08:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > Have you ever tried it on outgoing? I can set up a rule, but > I can't get it to run on anything but the inbox. > > Charlotte Foust > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 18 10:39:32 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:39:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: Yes, but the scale of 1-5 is 1/20 of the scale of 1-100. It does not matter how many scores you have. Here is the proof... (a+b+c+...+m)/13 = current average. You must divide this by 20 to get the correct scale. Now... If you need to convert each score first, then you have the following: (a/20+b/20+c/20+...+m/20)/13 = ((a+b+c+...+m)/20)/13 then you have, ((a+b+c+...+m)/20)/13 = (a+b+c+...+m)*(1/20)*(1/13) which comes to the following... (a+b+c+...+m)*(1/20)*(1/13) = (a+b+c+...+m)*(1/13)*(1/20) followed by... (a+b+c+...+m)*(1/13)*(1/20) = ((a+b+c+...+m)/13)/20 since (a+b+c+...+m)/13 = the current average, ((a+b+c+...+m)/13)/20 = (the current average / 20) So you see, you are dividing by 20 also... Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? There are only 13 categories not 20. 89.9 is the average on the 100 scale. When I convert each grade to a 1-5 value the average is 4.7. Make sense? Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 10:41:42 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:41:42 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A63@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> References: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A63@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <7332233639.20040818174142@cactus.dk> Hi Jim That's a rounding issue. To avoid that you would need to use ratings like 4.3, 3.2, 3.9 etc. Or round 89.9 to 90 and 91.5 to 91. A simplified system generates a simplified output. /gustav > Here are two examples of 4.7 average on a 1-5 scale. Both have different outcomes on a 100 scale. Averages are on the bottom row. > Q 1 92 5 90 5 > Q 2 90 5 93.5 5 > Q 3 95 5 93 5 > Q 4 92 5 97.5 5 > Q 5 95 5 85 4 > Q 6 90 5 89.5 4 > Q 7 95 5 85.5 4 > Q 8 90 5 98.5 5 > Q 9 89 4 87.5 4 > Q 10 93.5 5 93 5 > Q 11 80 4 95 5 > Q 12 82 4 91 5 > Q 13 85 4 90 5 > Avg 89.9 4.7 91.5 4.7 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? > There are only 13 categories not 20. 89.9 is the average on the 100 scale. When I convert each grade to a 1-5 value the average is 4.7. Make sense? > Jim D. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? > How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? > Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. > This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 > (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). > I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. > Thanks, > Jim D. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? > Hi Jim > Isn't this a normal rounding issue? > If you calculate the final grading as: > FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) > you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. > /gustav >> We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: >> O 100 - 90 >> V 89 - 80 >> G 79- 70 >> I 69 - 60 >> U Below 60 >> There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same >> average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding >> rating). >> Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? From marcus at tsstech.com Wed Aug 18 10:44:09 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:44:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Math problem?? Message-ID: But a 92 = 4.6 not 5, otherwise you will have rounding error. You cannot ignore this if you want the results to be accurate. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Here are two examples of 4.7 average on a 1-5 scale. Both have different outcomes on a 100 scale. Averages are on the bottom row. Q 1 92 5 90 5 Q 2 90 5 93.5 5 Q 3 95 5 93 5 Q 4 92 5 97.5 5 Q 5 95 5 85 4 Q 6 90 5 89.5 4 Q 7 95 5 85.5 4 Q 8 90 5 98.5 5 Q 9 89 4 87.5 4 Q 10 93.5 5 93 5 Q 11 80 4 95 5 Q 12 82 4 91 5 Q 13 85 4 90 5 Avg 89.9 4.7 91.5 4.7 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? There are only 13 categories not 20. 89.9 is the average on the 100 scale. When I convert each grade to a 1-5 value the average is 4.7. Make sense? Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? How does someone with a score of 89.9 get an average of 4.7? In my book, 89.9/20 = 4.495 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Math problem?? Interesting thought but I'm not sure that that's the answer either Gustav for a couple of reasons. This would mean that every person with a 4.5 or greater would be in the "O" category when they probably belong in "V". I've also got a person whose old average was 89.9 with a 1-5 average of 4.7 (although maybe that 1/10 of a point is moot in this case I've got to lower one of the 13 grades by over 6 points to see a change in grouping level). I can always send you my test numbers if you feel like playing with them. Thanks, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Math problem?? Hi Jim Isn't this a normal rounding issue? If you calculate the final grading as: FinalGrading = Int(AverageGrading + 0.5) you will get an "O" for an average grading of 4.7. /gustav > We have an automated employee evaluation form that allows supervisors/managers to grade their staff in 13 categories on the following scale: > O 100 - 90 > V 89 - 80 > G 79- 70 > I 69 - 60 > U Below 60 > There's been much discussion among management to change this scale to a 1 to 5 rating but given a sample of 10 evaluations changing each grade above to a 1-5 value does not end up with the same > average over the 13 categories (in other words, on certain employees who averaged in the "O" or outstanding group the 1-5 average was 4.7 where I need it to be 5 to get them in the Outstanding > rating). > Is there a way for us to change our grading system without dropping certain grades from the (previously) correct bucket? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 18 10:55:19 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:55:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Query the Reports Container in an ADP Message-ID: I'm not sure what you want to do. Do you just want a list of the reports in the container or are you trying to manipulate them somehow? If you just want a list, loop through CurrentProject.AllReports(index).Name. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Ken Stoker [mailto:kens.programming at verizon.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:38 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Query the Reports Container in an ADP Can anyone tell me how to query the reports container in an ADP? Or is it even possible? I found a piece of code called DaoDbFromAdoCon at the following site http://www.trigeminal.com/lang/1033/codes.asp?ItemID=1 but am not having much success with it at the moment. If someone has a better approach or knows better how to use this function, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thanks Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 18 11:00:48 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:00:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2C7@main2.marlow.com> LOL. I've seen that pic, where the word doc says 'Goodbye World ...' and Clippy is there saying 'Looks like you're going to commit suicide, can I help with the note'... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 4:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? ROTFLMAO. You left out "commit suicide" JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 5:09 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Thanks....just felt like goofing around a bit. I couldn't stop laughing while making that image though..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Priceless. ;) Susan H. I was wondering what you were talking about, so I turned Clippy on. You're not going to believe this: http://www.wolfwares.com/Clippy.jpg Wow, I knew you had ties...just didn't realize! Sheesh! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 18 11:06:39 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:06:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be dupl icated) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2C8@main2.marlow.com> Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed Aug 18 11:07:51 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:07:51 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c4853d$85488c40$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> That's interesting Patricia. How did you do it? I've never had any joy trying to do this. I wanted emails that I generate from within Access, and which have an identifiable Subject, moved to a sub-folder of Sent Items after sending. Have you done anything like that? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) > Sent: 18 August 2004 15:20 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > Yes It works for outgoing - I have several folders with sent > messages directed to it. Both Outlook 2000 and 2003 > > ****************************************************************** > *Patricia O'Connor > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst > *OTDA - BDMA > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > ****************************************************************** > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Charlotte Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 08:29 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > > Have you ever tried it on outgoing? I can set up a rule, but > > I can't get it to run on anything but the inbox. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 18 11:10:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:10:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2CA@main2.marlow.com> I would definitely leave it be. 97 is rock solid, and will perform perfectly on any 'upgraded' system. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Catherine Blansett Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 7:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? The application is in 97. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:24 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > Just out of curiousity, what version is the application in? > > I never used 2.0, but as many listers have posted, it's rock solid. 95 was > horribly flaky, but 97 is as solid as it gets. I don't think they've > improved on 97's performance at all (at least I haven't heard of any > performance increases). > > Sounds like there is a different reason to push an upgrade, other then this > Access App. > > In fact, Access applications are one of the largest tasks involved in an > upgrade. Our company still uses Office 97 on all of it's 150+ work > stations. There are newer versions of Outlook on some machines, but that's > it. We do plan on eventually upgrading to a newer version of Office, when > the budget allows. Two issues we will be concerned with, at that time, is > getting it installed network wide, and ensuring all of our .mdb's are > working. There are not many 'coded' .mdb's on the network, mostly > querries/reports. 95% of the stuff I have done either have VB or ASP front > ends, so an upgrade won't affect them. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Catherine > Blansett > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:05 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > Hi, > > I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to > make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional > database program for her non-profit agency (front-end and back-end). She is > receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it > will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no > reason to do this. > > Is there any reason to move? > > Thanks > > Catherine > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kens.programming at verizon.net Wed Aug 18 11:12:37 2004 From: kens.programming at verizon.net (Ken Stoker) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:12:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Query the Reports Container in an ADP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040818161059.XPDW6722.out002.verizon.net@enterprise> Perfect, Charlotte. That is what I was looking for. As always, a wealth of knowledge. Thanks. Ken -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Query the Reports Container in an ADP I'm not sure what you want to do. Do you just want a list of the reports in the container or are you trying to manipulate them somehow? If you just want a list, loop through CurrentProject.AllReports(index).Name. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Ken Stoker [mailto:kens.programming at verizon.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:38 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Query the Reports Container in an ADP Can anyone tell me how to query the reports container in an ADP? Or is it even possible? I found a piece of code called DaoDbFromAdoCon at the following site http://www.trigeminal.com/lang/1033/codes.asp?ItemID=1 but am not having much success with it at the moment. If someone has a better approach or knows better how to use this function, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thanks Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Wed Aug 18 11:29:02 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 12:29:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: Andy In OUTLOOK 2003 or 2000 Not Express Under TOOLS click RULES AND ALERTs NEW RULE If wizard pops up change from "Start from Template" to "Start from Blank" Will then display under step 1 - Check messages after sending Then on next pop ups select the criteria you want through screens and turn rule on. On of the rules I have looks like the following "Apply this rul after I send the message With Summary Table in subject Move a copy to the SummaryTables folder Except if subject contains 'Decline:' or 'READ:' or 'Accept' Works great ! Because of the way our shop is set up - it will only run when client outlook is running - you may be able to make it a system-wide or server rule if you have the permissions. I have not done this within VB code. ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:08 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > That's interesting Patricia. How did you do it? I've never > had any joy trying to do this. I wanted emails that I > generate from within Access, and which have an identifiable > Subject, moved to a sub-folder of Sent Items after sending. > Have you done anything like that? > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > O'Connor, > > Patricia (OTDA) > > Sent: 18 August 2004 15:20 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > > > > Yes It works for outgoing - I have several folders with > sent messages > > directed to it. Both Outlook 2000 and 2003 > > > > ****************************************************************** > > *Patricia O'Connor > > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA > > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > > ****************************************************************** > From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 18 12:13:31 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 12:13:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2C8@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about this on DBA-Tech). I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to clean it up? JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Aug 18 12:31:45 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:31:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: The directory where the 'ldb' file is created and resided must have read, write and delete rights or the file will not removed when all users have finally exited the program, leaving the MDB file locked. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about this on DBA-Tech). I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to clean it up? JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Aug 18 12:42:52 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:42:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <639503012.20040818194252@cactus.dk> Hi John If a process is open (running) keeping the file locked, you may use PsKill to terminate that process: http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/pstools.shtml /gustav > This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about > this on DBA-Tech). > I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an > mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't > touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this > from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of > logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to > the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing > the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) > Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps > startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to > clean it up? From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Aug 18 12:59:59 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 12:59:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be dupl icated) Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2D0@main2.marlow.com> If they have 'admin' rights on the server, and the workstation is w2k, then they can open computer management on their workstation, then connect to the server with computer management, and do the same thing. However, it sounds like the VB .exe isn't really closing, otherwise, it should kill the connection when it's done. Did you make sure the .exe is truly gone from the Task Manager? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about this on DBA-Tech). I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to clean it up? JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Wed Aug 18 13:27:22 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:27:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: JB, This needs to be fix. It means that the program is terminating abnormally either from the user, by a problem with the PC or network, or because of a programming problem. What ever the cause, it needs to be investigated. Simply deleting the locks is not really a cure. Sooner or later, your going to end up with a corrupt MDB. It's not a rights issue because even if the LDB file gets left behind (which may cause a performance problem when logging in under certain circumstances), the locks still should be getting cleared. I'd hound the "developer" till s/he does something about it. In the meantime, if this is a NT/W2K/WinXP server, try turning off OPLOCKS (Opportunistic Locking). More info is available in the MSKB on Microsoft's web site. I'd also make sure the MDB/LDB is not being virus scanned. Jim Dettman (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about this on DBA-Tech). I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to clean it up? JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From joconnell at indy.rr.com Wed Aug 18 13:29:28 2004 From: joconnell at indy.rr.com (Joseph O'Connell) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:29:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? Message-ID: <020a01c48551$60481b40$6701a8c0@joe> Catherine, Another consideration is the software that Microsoft makes available to not-for-profit organizations. Microsoft is the primary financial backer of NPower, which has offices in several cities. The cost is negligible for a not-for-profit to become an NPower member. The benefits of membership include greatly reduced fees for software training at most training facilities (usually $50 per day of training) and FREE software from Microsoft. NPower members are eligible for most Microsoft software at no charge--including operating systems, server software (SQL, Exchange, etc.) and Office. Even if you do not upgrade the Access application at this time, it might be worthwhile to see if your client is eligible to join NPower because of the other benefits. Joe O'Connell > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Catherine > Blansett > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:05 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > Hi, > > I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to > make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional > database program for her non-profit agency (front-end and back-end). She is > receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it > will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no > reason to do this. > > Is there any reason to move? > > Thanks > > Catherine > > -- From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 18 13:50:07 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:50:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: All I can say is that I've tried similar rules in OXP and while they worked if I *ran* them from the wizard, they didn't work automatically even though they were turned on. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Andy In OUTLOOK 2003 or 2000 Not Express Under TOOLS click RULES AND ALERTs NEW RULE If wizard pops up change from "Start from Template" to "Start from Blank" Will then display under step 1 - Check messages after sending Then on next pop ups select the criteria you want through screens and turn rule on. On of the rules I have looks like the following "Apply this rul after I send the message With Summary Table in subject Move a copy to the SummaryTables folder Except if subject contains 'Decline:' or 'READ:' or 'Accept' Works great ! Because of the way our shop is set up - it will only run when client outlook is running - you may be able to make it a system-wide or server rule if you have the permissions. I have not done this within VB code. ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:08 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > That's interesting Patricia. How did you do it? I've never > had any joy trying to do this. I wanted emails that I > generate from within Access, and which have an identifiable > Subject, moved to a sub-folder of Sent Items after sending. > Have you done anything like that? > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > O'Connor, > > Patricia (OTDA) > > Sent: 18 August 2004 15:20 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > > > > Yes It works for outgoing - I have several folders with > sent messages > > directed to it. Both Outlook 2000 and 2003 > > > > ****************************************************************** > > *Patricia O'Connor > > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA > > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > > ****************************************************************** > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 18 14:10:01 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:10:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I did that when I set it all up but a good point I'll check it again. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) Hi John: The directory where the 'ldb' file is created and resided must have read, write and delete rights or the file will not removed when all users have finally exited the program, leaving the MDB file locked. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about this on DBA-Tech). I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to clean it up? JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 18 14:10:01 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:10:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2D0@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Thanks Drew, that would be better than having them log on to the server. When I get them all off of win98 that will be the ticket ;o) And yes, even turned all the workstations off one night while prepping for something else and low and behold there were those pesky open files. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:00 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) If they have 'admin' rights on the server, and the workstation is w2k, then they can open computer management on their workstation, then connect to the server with computer management, and do the same thing. However, it sounds like the VB .exe isn't really closing, otherwise, it should kill the connection when it's done. Did you make sure the .exe is truly gone from the Task Manager? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about this on DBA-Tech). I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to clean it up? JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 18 14:10:02 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:10:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, I agree wholeheartedly. Also another good suggestion on the AV scan - I did make an exclusion for .mdb files when I set the AV up but I could manually check it to make sure. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) JB, This needs to be fix. It means that the program is terminating abnormally either from the user, by a problem with the PC or network, or because of a programming problem. What ever the cause, it needs to be investigated. Simply deleting the locks is not really a cure. Sooner or later, your going to end up with a corrupt MDB. It's not a rights issue because even if the LDB file gets left behind (which may cause a performance problem when logging in under certain circumstances), the locks still should be getting cleared. I'd hound the "developer" till s/he does something about it. In the meantime, if this is a NT/W2K/WinXP server, try turning off OPLOCKS (Opportunistic Locking). More info is available in the MSKB on Microsoft's web site. I'd also make sure the MDB/LDB is not being virus scanned. Jim Dettman (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about this on DBA-Tech). I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to clean it up? JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Depends on the OS. You can't in Windows 9x machines, but in NT based machines, it's a matter of finding the files in use. For Windows 2000, one way to get there, is to right click on my computer, and select 'Manage'. This brings up the Computer Management screen. Expand the 'System Tools' node, then the 'Shared Folders' node, then open the 'Open Files' node. That will display all of the 'file locks' coming in from other machines. Well, sort of. It's displaying files in use, you're not going to see the individual locks that one particular user has in place. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't be duplicated) Jim, How do you, ". . . clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS." ??? Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Paul, Delete the .LDB file if it exists, then try again. If still the same problem reboot the machine where the database resides or clear the locks being held on the database file via the OS. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. I can copy the whole database, but that same table in the copied database refuses to be copied - or to be renamed. I can steal it with Excel - but then I lose all the lookups and the like. Anyone had this problem before please, anyone found an answer, please? Cheers paul -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From blansett at holly.colostate.edu Wed Aug 18 14:16:32 2004 From: blansett at holly.colostate.edu (Catherine Blansett) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:16:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? References: <020a01c48551$60481b40$6701a8c0@joe> Message-ID: <001001c48557$dfefcc20$73c9fea9@tsclos01.al.comcast> Joe, Thank you for this information. I will make my client aware of this opportunity. As for now, I am going to continue to advise my client to leave things where they are. The responses to my question have confirmed that there is no reason to spend the money to upgrade at this time. Thanks to all for your help. Catherine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph O'Connell" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > Catherine, > > Another consideration is the software that Microsoft makes available to > not-for-profit organizations. Microsoft is the primary financial backer of > NPower, which has offices in several cities. The cost is negligible for a > not-for-profit to become an NPower member. The benefits of membership > include greatly reduced fees for software training at most training > facilities (usually $50 per day of training) and FREE software from > Microsoft. NPower members are eligible for most Microsoft software at no > charge--including operating systems, server software (SQL, Exchange, etc.) > and Office. > > Even if you do not upgrade the Access application at this time, it might be > worthwhile to see if your client is eligible to join NPower because of the > other benefits. > > Joe O'Connell > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Catherine > > Blansett > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:05 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Changing to newest version of ACCESS? > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I know that we have addressed this subject in the past. I just wanted to > > make sure I am up to date. I have a client that has a fully functional > > database program for her non-profit agency (front-end and back-end). She > is > > receiving pressure to upgrade to the newest version of ACCESS so that it > > will work better with their upgraded machines. I have told her there is no > > reason to do this. > > > > Is there any reason to move? > > > > Thanks > > > > Catherine > > > > -- > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Aug 18 15:30:11 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:30:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F1CA262@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Wold that be a case of Client-Side Versus Server-Side rules? If your rule tries to move mail into a folder that is not on the Exchange Server but rather in a PST file then it will be a Client-Side rule, in which case Outlook must be running for the rule to take effect. Server-Side rules run on the server, so you PC does not even need to be power up for them to run. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > All I can say is that I've tried similar rules in OXP and while they > worked if I *ran* them from the wizard, they didn't work automatically > even though they were turned on. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) > [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us] > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > Andy > > In OUTLOOK 2003 or 2000 Not Express > > Under TOOLS > click RULES AND ALERTs > NEW RULE > If wizard pops up change from "Start from Template" to "Start from > Blank" > > Will then display under step 1 - Check messages after sending Then on > next pop ups select the criteria you want through screens and turn rule > on. > > On of the rules I have looks like the following > > "Apply this rul after I send the message > With Summary Table in subject > Move a copy to the SummaryTables folder > Except if subject contains 'Decline:' or 'READ:' or 'Accept' > > > Works great ! > Because of the way our shop is set up - it will only run when client > outlook is running - you may be able to make it a system-wide or server > rule if you have the permissions. > > I have not done this within VB code. > > > ****************************************************************** > *Patricia O'Connor > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst > *OTDA - BDMA > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > ****************************************************************** > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:08 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > > That's interesting Patricia. How did you do it? I've never > > had any joy trying to do this. I wanted emails that I > > generate from within Access, and which have an identifiable > > Subject, moved to a sub-folder of Sent Items after sending. > > Have you done anything like that? > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > O'Connor, > > > Patricia (OTDA) > > > Sent: 18 August 2004 15:20 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > > > > > > > Yes It works for outgoing - I have several folders with > > sent messages > > > directed to it. Both Outlook 2000 and 2003 > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > > > *Patricia O'Connor > > > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA > > > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > > > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > > > ****************************************************************** > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 18 15:48:55 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:48:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) In-Reply-To: <639503012.20040818194252@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Thanks for the tip I'll give it a try when I get it downloaded (I'm having connection problems this week and the download keeps getting cut off on me!) John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can't beduplicated) Hi John If a process is open (running) keeping the file locked, you may use PsKill to terminate that process: http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/pstools.shtml /gustav > This is what I am trying to do from the workstation. (I recently asked about > this on DBA-Tech). > I have a customer site where their 3rd party app is constantly leaving an > mdb & ldb file open on the server every time they use the apps. (I can't > touch the apps - VB using A97 mdb BE). I am looking for a way to do this > from the workstation because as simple as it sounds, the client is afraid of > logging onto the server to do this and the developer is non-responsive to > the problem. (Your message below is what I have them doing now plus closing > the hung mdb & ldb files for the user that is no longer using the app.) > Any idea of whether I can do this from the workstation? Maybe wrap the apps > startup in a batch file that calls the app and when done calls a script to > clean it up? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Wed Aug 18 15:56:22 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:56:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: Well Charlotte I don't know how your system is set up but the rule in my example has been running every day for a few months with no problem On the last window - Did you just check TURN RULE ON ? Leave the other blank Have you tried opening outlook xp under administrator. Maybe you need more rights. ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 02:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > All I can say is that I've tried similar rules in OXP and > while they worked if I *ran* them from the wizard, they > didn't work automatically even though they were turned on. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) > [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us] > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > Andy > > In OUTLOOK 2003 or 2000 Not Express > > Under TOOLS > click RULES AND ALERTs > NEW RULE > If wizard pops up change from "Start from Template" to "Start from > Blank" > > Will then display under step 1 - Check messages after sending Then on > next pop ups select the criteria you want through screens and > turn rule > on. > > On of the rules I have looks like the following > > "Apply this rul after I send the message > With Summary Table in subject > Move a copy to the SummaryTables folder > Except if subject contains 'Decline:' or 'READ:' or 'Accept' > > > Works great ! > Because of the way our shop is set up - it will only run when client > outlook is running - you may be able to make it a system-wide > or server > rule if you have the permissions. > > I have not done this within VB code. > > > ****************************************************************** > *Patricia O'Connor > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst > *OTDA - BDMA > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > ****************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 18 15:58:29 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:58:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Message-ID: Yes I turned the rule on, and I already am an admin on this machine. The rule shows up checked in the list of rules and runs nicely if I run it manually from the rules wizard, but it gets ignored when Outlook is processing the rules automatically. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules Well Charlotte I don't know how your system is set up but the rule in my example has been running every day for a few months with no problem On the last window - Did you just check TURN RULE ON ? Leave the other blank Have you tried opening outlook xp under administrator. Maybe you need more rights. ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 02:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > All I can say is that I've tried similar rules in OXP and > while they worked if I *ran* them from the wizard, they > didn't work automatically even though they were turned on. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) > [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us] > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > Andy > > In OUTLOOK 2003 or 2000 Not Express > > Under TOOLS > click RULES AND ALERTs > NEW RULE > If wizard pops up change from "Start from Template" to "Start from > Blank" > > Will then display under step 1 - Check messages after sending Then on > next pop ups select the criteria you want through screens and turn > rule on. > > On of the rules I have looks like the following > > "Apply this rul after I send the message > With Summary Table in subject > Move a copy to the SummaryTables folder > Except if subject contains 'Decline:' or 'READ:' or 'Accept' > > > Works great ! > Because of the way our shop is set up - it will only run when client > outlook is running - you may be able to make it a system-wide or > server rule if you have the permissions. > > I have not done this within VB code. > > > ****************************************************************** > *Patricia O'Connor > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst > *OTDA - BDMA > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > ****************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed Aug 18 17:50:52 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 23:50:52 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c48575$d0a29400$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Likewise, but I'll give it another try. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: 18 August 2004 19:50 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > All I can say is that I've tried similar rules in OXP and > while they worked if I *ran* them from the wizard, they > didn't work automatically even though they were turned on. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) > [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us] > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > Andy > > In OUTLOOK 2003 or 2000 Not Express > > Under TOOLS > click RULES AND ALERTs > NEW RULE > If wizard pops up change from "Start from Template" to > "Start from Blank" > > Will then display under step 1 - Check messages after sending > Then on next pop ups select the criteria you want through > screens and turn rule on. > > On of the rules I have looks like the following > > "Apply this rul after I send the message > With Summary Table in subject > Move a copy to the SummaryTables folder > Except if subject contains 'Decline:' or 'READ:' or 'Accept' > > > Works great ! > Because of the way our shop is set up - it will only run when > client outlook is running - you may be able to make it a > system-wide or server rule if you have the permissions. > > I have not done this within VB code. > > > ****************************************************************** > *Patricia O'Connor > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst > *OTDA - BDMA > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > ****************************************************************** > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Andy Lacey > > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:08 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > > That's interesting Patricia. How did you do it? I've never > had any joy > > trying to do this. I wanted emails that I generate from > within Access, > > and which have an identifiable Subject, moved to a > sub-folder of Sent > > Items after sending. Have you done anything like that? > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > O'Connor, > > > Patricia (OTDA) > > > Sent: 18 August 2004 15:20 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] WAY OT: Outlook Express Rules > > > > > > > > > Yes It works for outgoing - I have several folders with > > sent messages > > > directed to it. Both Outlook 2000 and 2003 > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > > > *Patricia O'Connor > > > *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA > > > *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us > > > *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us > > > ****************************************************************** > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From john at winhaven.net Wed Aug 18 17:56:50 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:56:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just had a chance to try out some of the previous suggestions. (I haven't had a chance to check out OPLOCKS yet and I haven't downloaded PsTools yet.) I checked the file/folder permissions -check I checked the AV scanner exception list -ldb was in the exception list mdb wasn't I added that I ran the multiple applications on three workstations simultaneously and then closed them out properly, I checked the task list on each workstation -nothing listed Checked the open files on the server -ldbs were not open, mdbs were left open Returned to each workstation check processes with third party tool -nothing there Logged out of workstation with session files open, checked server open files -files closed Any other ideas? John B From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 19 02:24:36 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 00:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089A5A@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <20040819072436.29589.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Scott, in reply on you're security issue: My advise: bother if you have to!! I do not know what kind of info/app it is but in must INTRAnet cases you don't need a fancy login procedure :-) If you need more info on security just let me know. Regards, Sander Jim DeMarco wrote: Scott, I've downloaded a tool called LogiXML. They offer a free single user license so you can download it and try it. I hadn't tried it yet but your post sort of pushed me into it (I'm not really a CR fan so I'm always looking for something else). I was able to very quickly get a simple report pulled from our SQL DB (in minutes actually) and published to my local web. It's worth a look I think. HTH, Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net I'm just about finished converting an Access97 project to ASP.Net with MYSQL backend. I must say that this is pretty cool stuff. Questions: 1)Is the best tool for reports for this situation, Crystal Reports and their web server control? What other options do I have? 2)I haven't implemented any security yet. Should I use Windows authentication or create login pages or use some other method? 3)I'm currently using IIS locally with WinXP Pro, any gotcha's moving the application to my Win2003 Server? 4)I'm using MySQL 4 on the Win2003 Server machine, what problems might I have when moving it to Linux? I have an experienced Linux/Unix administrator to help me, but he is new to MySQL. Here is what my setup will be... Linux for MySQL Windows Server 2003 for IIS (already setup) Each user will have Win2000 or WinXP Pro with IE 6. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 19 02:37:43 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 00:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! Message-ID: <20040819073743.27941.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, it's been a long while since I visited this list, furtunatly it was because of a .NET project But now business as usual. I need convert an A2K to A2k2. Everything went great. Got some warnings due to the misareble code but it worked great. Except for 1 thing: I cannot seem to open, see the database container!? Qua pasa? I've checked security settings, "hide databasecontainer" option (dunno the exact name), hit F11 (is it still F11 in A2k2) started the BE holding down shift while double clicking the file, checked that there's no code to disable the shift => NOTHING. So I need to migrate a A2k database (FE+BE) on WinNT4 to A2k2 on WinXP. Any ideas why I do not see the database window? Tia, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! From joeget at vgernet.net Thu Aug 19 04:26:02 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 05:26:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select question Message-ID: <00ac01c485ce$91c2b3b0$4dc2f63f@Desktop> What is the difference between select distinct and select distinctrow. When would I use one instead of the other. I have looked and cannot find the answer Thanks John From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Thu Aug 19 05:00:09 2004 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:00:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Select question Message-ID: Hi John I think the 'Select distinct' looks at the uniqueness of the columns returned in your query and select 'distinctrow' takes into account columns not returned by the query so Col1 Col2 Col3 (Col3 is not Returned but a row in the table) 1 A A C 2 A B C 3 A B D Select distinct would return rows 1 and 2 Select distinctrow would return rows 1 and 2 and 3 (as it takes col3 into account) Richard -----Original Message----- From: John Eget [mailto:joeget at vgernet.net] Sent: 19 August 2004 10:26 To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Select question What is the difference between select distinct and select distinctrow. When would I use one instead of the other. I have looked and cannot find the answer Thanks John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 19 06:32:38 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:32:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net Message-ID: Sander, I do need some type of security. This is payroll information for hourly employees. I would like to use Windows authentication but have not had a good start using it. Scott -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 3:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net Scott, in reply on you're security issue: My advise: bother if you have to!! I do not know what kind of info/app it is but in must INTRAnet cases you don't need a fancy login procedure :-) If you need more info on security just let me know. Regards, Sander Jim DeMarco wrote: Scott, I've downloaded a tool called LogiXML. They offer a free single user license so you can download it and try it. I hadn't tried it yet but your post sort of pushed me into it (I'm not really a CR fan so I'm always looking for something else). I was able to very quickly get a simple report pulled from our SQL DB (in minutes actually) and published to my local web. It's worth a look I think. HTH, Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access to MySQL & ASP.Net I'm just about finished converting an Access97 project to ASP.Net with MYSQL backend. I must say that this is pretty cool stuff. Questions: 1)Is the best tool for reports for this situation, Crystal Reports and their web server control? What other options do I have? 2)I haven't implemented any security yet. Should I use Windows authentication or create login pages or use some other method? 3)I'm currently using IIS locally with WinXP Pro, any gotcha's moving the application to my Win2003 Server? 4)I'm using MySQL 4 on the Win2003 Server machine, what problems might I have when moving it to Linux? I have an experienced Linux/Unix administrator to help me, but he is new to MySQL. Here is what my setup will be... Linux for MySQL Windows Server 2003 for IIS (already setup) Each user will have Win2000 or WinXP Pro with IE 6. Scott Marcus -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu Aug 19 06:44:55 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:44:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Not sure I understand this last bit: <> Is this terminal services or Citrix? Not exactly sure what you mean by "session". And at the end, your saying after doing this the server now sees the MDB file as closed for each of the work stations? Also, more specifics on the setup: 1. Client OS 2. Server OS 3. Network protocol(s) in use Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) I just had a chance to try out some of the previous suggestions. (I haven't had a chance to check out OPLOCKS yet and I haven't downloaded PsTools yet.) I checked the file/folder permissions -check I checked the AV scanner exception list -ldb was in the exception list mdb wasn't I added that I ran the multiple applications on three workstations simultaneously and then closed them out properly, I checked the task list on each workstation -nothing listed Checked the open files on the server -ldbs were not open, mdbs were left open Returned to each workstation check processes with third party tool -nothing there Logged out of workstation with session files open, checked server open files -files closed Any other ideas? John B -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 19 07:20:02 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:20:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41252792.17813.12E6082@lexacorp.com.pg> As Jim D said, more info on OS etc including SPs? There are a number of issues with XP and file locking (One of the reasons that I keep my clients on W2K ) For example see: http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=324002 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=814112 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=826722 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=822227 -- Stuart From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu Aug 19 08:04:58 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:04:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted dba-OT Message-ID: If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second description was "create a report based on data from several databases". Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices and no estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the unknown variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get some idea of best practices. Thank you, Mark From Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com Thu Aug 19 08:15:56 2004 From: Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com (Pickering, Stephen) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:15:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Message-ID: <35C4AC5A5AFD9642833200159C258156A329FD@s98026.psd.caremark.int> Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what they need and what the environment is. Take this information to give them an estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing issues and support, if need be. This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope creep, and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get paid for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. HTH, Steve ----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second description was "create a report based on data from several databases". Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices and no estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the unknown variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get some idea of best practices. Thank you, Mark From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu Aug 19 08:44:26 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:44:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Questio n : x-posted d ba-OT Message-ID: There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm just hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance. Primarily, I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due to the sensitive nature of the data. That alone raises time issues...I have a 40-hour job already...are they going to be willing to allow me to work late into the evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal working hours? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what they need and what the environment is. Take this information to give them an estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing issues and support, if need be. This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope creep, and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get paid for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. HTH, Steve ----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second description was "create a report based on data from several databases". Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices and no estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the unknown variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get some idea of best practices. Thank you, Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Aug 19 09:50:22 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:50:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, (Sorry, I had that info in my original post on DBA-Tech) W98 Clients W2k3 Server TCP/IP VB Apps (multiple) utilizing A97 mdb BE (also multiple) When looking at Computer Management-Shared Folders you have three items by default (same with XP/W2K): Shares - obvious Sessions - indicates any user/machine utilizing a share Open Files - indicates the files being used via the share So by session I mean the user/machine with an open Shared File Session. Presently I have them right click on the Improperly open mdb BE file and choose Close File. As you mentioned previously "this needs to be fixed"! (I get a chuckle out of that every time I read it :o) For many years now the developers didn't know this was happening and neither did any previous support persons, I guess up until you all agreed, I was the only one that cared ;o) but it is causing problems with the apps backup function and at times it affects printing - which I have no idea why it would affect printing but I still think it needs to be fixed) The entire staff just says - that's just how XXX program works. (I won't do the company the dishonor of mentioning their name as it may be a locking issue). The issue that has not been resolved yet is the mdb BE is showing as an Open File after the user(s) have closed the application on the W98 client. When checking the client machine it shows that no process is hanging on the client machine. If I log out the client on the client machine the (improperly) open mdb BE file closes on the server. By deduction as a work around I could close the share on the client machine and it would close the session on the server and the file would close. I could then re-establish the share. Although I don't know if this is causing the file to close properly or not it would on the surface seem to be no worse than forcing it to close via the Computer Management interface on the server or by logging the client out. My immediate need is to address the issue in manner the users can deal with the problem without forcing them to login to the server. My goal is to eventually remove the problem - any ideas? I am pursuing Gustav and Stuart's suggestions on file locking problems. BTW: This problem also occurred on the WNT4 Server. Thanks for all your help, John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) John, Not sure I understand this last bit: <> Is this terminal services or Citrix? Not exactly sure what you mean by "session". And at the end, your saying after doing this the server now sees the MDB file as closed for each of the work stations? Also, more specifics on the setup: 1. Client OS 2. Server OS 3. Network protocol(s) in use Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) I just had a chance to try out some of the previous suggestions. (I haven't had a chance to check out OPLOCKS yet and I haven't downloaded PsTools yet.) I checked the file/folder permissions -check I checked the AV scanner exception list -ldb was in the exception list mdb wasn't I added that I ran the multiple applications on three workstations simultaneously and then closed them out properly, I checked the task list on each workstation -nothing listed Checked the open files on the server -ldbs were not open, mdbs were left open Returned to each workstation check processes with third party tool -nothing there Logged out of workstation with session files open, checked server open files -files closed Any other ideas? John B -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu Aug 19 10:11:10 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:11:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Definitely want to turn off OPLOCKS and see if it clears up the problem. See: Configuring Opportunistic Locking in Windows http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=296264 Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 10:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) Jim, (Sorry, I had that info in my original post on DBA-Tech) W98 Clients W2k3 Server TCP/IP VB Apps (multiple) utilizing A97 mdb BE (also multiple) When looking at Computer Management-Shared Folders you have three items by default (same with XP/W2K): Shares - obvious Sessions - indicates any user/machine utilizing a share Open Files - indicates the files being used via the share So by session I mean the user/machine with an open Shared File Session. Presently I have them right click on the Improperly open mdb BE file and choose Close File. As you mentioned previously "this needs to be fixed"! (I get a chuckle out of that every time I read it :o) For many years now the developers didn't know this was happening and neither did any previous support persons, I guess up until you all agreed, I was the only one that cared ;o) but it is causing problems with the apps backup function and at times it affects printing - which I have no idea why it would affect printing but I still think it needs to be fixed) The entire staff just says - that's just how XXX program works. (I won't do the company the dishonor of mentioning their name as it may be a locking issue). The issue that has not been resolved yet is the mdb BE is showing as an Open File after the user(s) have closed the application on the W98 client. When checking the client machine it shows that no process is hanging on the client machine. If I log out the client on the client machine the (improperly) open mdb BE file closes on the server. By deduction as a work around I could close the share on the client machine and it would close the session on the server and the file would close. I could then re-establish the share. Although I don't know if this is causing the file to close properly or not it would on the surface seem to be no worse than forcing it to close via the Computer Management interface on the server or by logging the client out. My immediate need is to address the issue in manner the users can deal with the problem without forcing them to login to the server. My goal is to eventually remove the problem - any ideas? I am pursuing Gustav and Stuart's suggestions on file locking problems. BTW: This problem also occurred on the WNT4 Server. Thanks for all your help, John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) John, Not sure I understand this last bit: <> Is this terminal services or Citrix? Not exactly sure what you mean by "session". And at the end, your saying after doing this the server now sees the MDB file as closed for each of the work stations? Also, more specifics on the setup: 1. Client OS 2. Server OS 3. Network protocol(s) in use Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) I just had a chance to try out some of the previous suggestions. (I haven't had a chance to check out OPLOCKS yet and I haven't downloaded PsTools yet.) I checked the file/folder permissions -check I checked the AV scanner exception list -ldb was in the exception list mdb wasn't I added that I ran the multiple applications on three workstations simultaneously and then closed them out properly, I checked the task list on each workstation -nothing listed Checked the open files on the server -ldbs were not open, mdbs were left open Returned to each workstation check processes with third party tool -nothing there Logged out of workstation with session files open, checked server open files -files closed Any other ideas? John B -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 19 10:14:27 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:14:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003101c485ff$3b1f53c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> If this truly is "once off" then it is better to lose the job than get it and get sucked into a quagmire. Ask them over the phone BEFORE any meetings to get together the data that needs to be looked at, draw up a report structure they would like to see, the list of tables and databases that it comes from. If they know it is "coming from several databases" then they must have some knowledge of this. Schedule a meeting. GIVE them one hour free of charge, plus travel time. Look at what they need and try to nail down in your own mind what is involved. At the end of that hour you should be able to tell them roughly how big a job it is. Tell them. Be prepared BEFORE you go in with what you want on an hourly basis. Then you can tell them X hours times Y dollars. Don't worry if they never call back. If they don't call back you don't want to work for them. The biggest thing to remember is that clients who "don't want to pay much" are a royal PITA with no real concept of what is involved and you are well done with them. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm just hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance. Primarily, I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due to the sensitive nature of the data. That alone raises time issues...I have a 40-hour job already...are they going to be willing to allow me to work late into the evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal working hours? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what they need and what the environment is. Take this information to give them an estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing issues and support, if need be. This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope creep, and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get paid for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. HTH, Steve ----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second description was "create a report based on data from several databases". Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices and no estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the unknown variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get some idea of best practices. Thank you, Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Thu Aug 19 10:17:29 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:17:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Field Problem Message-ID: <0CC84C9461AE6445AD5A602001C41C4B059E24@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Hi All, A2K (no SPs), Jet 4.0 SP8 I have a table with a memo field. If I open the table directly and look at a particular record where the memo field contains more than 255 characters, the data is truncated at 255. If I create a query that uses this same table, the field in the query that show the data in the memo field is truncated. If I use Dlookup to return the memo field the data is truncated. BUT...if I create a form that uses this table as its record source and I put a text box on the form that is bound to the memo field, the data is NOT truncated. Is there a work around to this problem? I have already read MSKB Q291529, which outlines a similar problem that I can reproduce but the solution of update jet to latest service part did not work. Thanks for any help you provide! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 19 10:21:07 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:21:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question :x-posted d ba-OT In-Reply-To: <35C4AC5A5AFD9642833200159C258156A329FD@s98026.psd.caremark.int> Message-ID: <20040819152106.GDJW1792.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Give them an hourly rate -- send them a bill every week -- don't work if they stop paying. I know that sounds extreme, but I will never again work for a fixed fee. Of course, you have to show results occasionally to keep yourself honest and to keep them interested -- but that's no big deal. Susan H. Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 19 10:24:07 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:24:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select question In-Reply-To: <00ac01c485ce$91c2b3b0$4dc2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <20040819152409.GFNS1792.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> SELECT DISTINCT returns a unique recordset based on the field that follows the DISTINCT keyword. SELECT DISTINCTROW returns a unique recordset based on all the fields in the retrieved recordset. Susan H. What is the difference between select distinct and select distinctrow. When would I use one instead of the other. I have looked and cannot find the answer Thanks John From clh at christopherhawkins.com Thu Aug 19 10:31:34 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:31:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Message-ID: <91930-220048419153134984@christopherhawkins.com> A simple NDA should cover their concerns about data. You might need to take a vacation day or two to get this done. Although the bulk of your work will probably be done in the evenings and on weekends, a couple of proper business-day visits will probably be helpful. As to how to get started, find out two things: 1) Who is the project sponsor - the person tasked with making it happen, and 2) who is responsible for approving the project and cutting your check. Take both of these people to lunch and pick their brains as to what they need. You might want to visit their office during your lunch hour as well to take a look at what they're currently doing so you can get a feel for where they're coming from. Good luck. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:44:26 -0400 >There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm >just >hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance. >Primarily, >I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due to the >sensitive >nature of the data. That alone raises time issues...I have a >40-hour job >already...are they going to be willing to allow me to work late into >the >evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal working hours? > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM >To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD] >Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive >Question : >x-posted d ba-OT > > > Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! > >I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb >has >been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very >complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will >be >very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. > >I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what >they >need and what the environment is. Take this information to give >them an >estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. >Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing >issues and >support, if need be. > >This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. >Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope >creep, >and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get >paid >for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. > >HTH, > >Steve > > > >----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- > >If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on >the >following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a >small >medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second >description was "create a report based on data from several >databases". > >Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have >received >several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices >and no >estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you >address >the >customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate >scope >of >work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? > >At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the >unknown >variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first >began, >may have started out this way, without the structure of business >licenses, >contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an >acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a >one-off >situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner >possible. >Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an >attorney, >an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people >have >worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get >some >idea >of best practices. > >Thank you, > > >Mark > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Respectfully, Christopher Hawkins Managing Developer http://www.christopherhawkins.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 19 10:30:13 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:30:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! Message-ID: Have you tried creating a new AXP database and importing all the objects rom the other one? Can you see the database window in that? It sounds like you can get into the code module, so have you tried writing some code to show the database window? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:38 PM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! Hi group, it's been a long while since I visited this list, furtunatly it was because of a .NET project But now business as usual. I need convert an A2K to A2k2. Everything went great. Got some warnings due to the misareble code but it worked great. Except for 1 thing: I cannot seem to open, see the database container!? Qua pasa? I've checked security settings, "hide databasecontainer" option (dunno the exact name), hit F11 (is it still F11 in A2k2) started the BE holding down shift while double clicking the file, checked that there's no code to disable the shift => NOTHING. So I need to migrate a A2k database (FE+BE) on WinNT4 to A2k2 on WinXP. Any ideas why I do not see the database window? Tia, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Thu Aug 19 10:54:13 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:54:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select question Message-ID: >From Access 2000 help files DISTINCT Omits records that contain duplicate data in the selected fields. To be included in the results of the query, the values for each field listed in the SELECT statement must be unique. For example, several employees listed in an Employees table may have the same last name. If two records contain Smith in the LastName field, the following SQL statement returns only one record that contains Smith: SELECT DISTINCT LastName FROM Employees; If you omit DISTINCT, this query returns both Smith records. If the SELECT clause contains more than one field, the combination of values from all fields must be unique for a given record to be included in the results. The output of a query that uses DISTINCT is not updatable and does not reflect subsequent changes made by other users. DISTINCTROW Omits data based on entire duplicate records, not just duplicate fields. For example, you could create a query that joins the Customers and Orders tables on the CustomerID field. The Customers table contains no duplicate CustomerID fields, but the Orders table does because each customer can have many orders. The following SQL statement shows how you can use DISTINCTROW to produce a list of companies that have at least one order but without any details about those orders: SELECT DISTINCTROW CompanyName FROM Customers INNER JOIN Orders ON Customers.CustomerID = Orders.CustomerID ORDER BY CompanyName; If you omit DISTINCTROW, this query produces multiple rows for each company that has more than one order. DISTINCTROW has an effect only when you select fields from some, but not all, of the tables used in the query. DISTINCTROW is ignored if your query includes only one table, or if you output fields from all tables. HTH ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Eget > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 05:26 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Select question > > What is the difference between select distinct and select > distinctrow. When would I use one instead of the other. I > have looked and cannot find the answer Thanks John > -- > _______________________________________________ From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu Aug 19 10:53:48 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:53:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Questio n : x-posted d ba-OT Message-ID: This gives me confidence that I was headed in the right direction. I was planning on a short investigative meeting at "no charge". I remember hearing in the past phrases to the effect "...if we are discussing the job or my rate then you are paying me for that time", but I didn't feel that I was in a position to be that bold. I spoke with someone today who warned me that persons in the medical field were notoriously cost driven and reluctant to pay for someone's time. I found this ironic considering that when I go to a doctor's office and he refers me to a specialist, I still have to pay the doctor for his time even though he did 'nothing';) Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT If this truly is "once off" then it is better to lose the job than get it and get sucked into a quagmire. Ask them over the phone BEFORE any meetings to get together the data that needs to be looked at, draw up a report structure they would like to see, the list of tables and databases that it comes from. If they know it is "coming from several databases" then they must have some knowledge of this. Schedule a meeting. GIVE them one hour free of charge, plus travel time. Look at what they need and try to nail down in your own mind what is involved. At the end of that hour you should be able to tell them roughly how big a job it is. Tell them. Be prepared BEFORE you go in with what you want on an hourly basis. Then you can tell them X hours times Y dollars. Don't worry if they never call back. If they don't call back you don't want to work for them. The biggest thing to remember is that clients who "don't want to pay much" are a royal PITA with no real concept of what is involved and you are well done with them. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm just hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance. Primarily, I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due to the sensitive nature of the data. That alone raises time issues...I have a 40-hour job already...are they going to be willing to allow me to work late into the evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal working hours? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what they need and what the environment is. Take this information to give them an estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing issues and support, if need be. This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope creep, and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get paid for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. HTH, Steve ----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second description was "create a report based on data from several databases". Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices and no estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the unknown variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get some idea of best practices. Thank you, Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu Aug 19 11:00:55 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:00:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Questio n : x-posted d ba-OT Message-ID: Very good points regarding the different contacts...thanks. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT A simple NDA should cover their concerns about data. You might need to take a vacation day or two to get this done. Although the bulk of your work will probably be done in the evenings and on weekends, a couple of proper business-day visits will probably be helpful. As to how to get started, find out two things: 1) Who is the project sponsor - the person tasked with making it happen, and 2) who is responsible for approving the project and cutting your check. Take both of these people to lunch and pick their brains as to what they need. You might want to visit their office during your lunch hour as well to take a look at what they're currently doing so you can get a feel for where they're coming from. Good luck. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:44:26 -0400 >There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm >just >hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance. >Primarily, >I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due to the >sensitive >nature of the data. That alone raises time issues...I have a >40-hour job >already...are they going to be willing to allow me to work late into >the >evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal working hours? > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM >To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD] >Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive >Question : >x-posted d ba-OT > > > Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! > >I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb >has >been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very >complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will >be >very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. > >I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what >they >need and what the environment is. Take this information to give >them an >estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. >Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing >issues and >support, if need be. > >This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. >Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope >creep, >and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get >paid >for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. > >HTH, > >Steve > > > >----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- > >If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on >the >following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a >small >medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second >description was "create a report based on data from several >databases". > >Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have >received >several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices >and no >estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you >address >the >customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate >scope >of >work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? > >At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the >unknown >variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first >began, >may have started out this way, without the structure of business >licenses, >contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an >acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a >one-off >situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner >possible. >Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an >attorney, >an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people >have >worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get >some >idea >of best practices. > >Thank you, > > >Mark > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Respectfully, Christopher Hawkins Managing Developer http://www.christopherhawkins.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HARVEYF1 at WESTAT.com Thu Aug 19 11:18:01 2004 From: HARVEYF1 at WESTAT.com (Francis Harvey) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:18:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! Message-ID: <446DDE75CFC7E1438061462F85557B0F0481EA19@remail2.westat.com> Sander, Check the Window menu to see if you can Unhide any windows. If not, bad screen location perhaps? Click one of the Tile options to see if the window gets resized and placed in a visible location. Francis R Harvey III WB 303, (301)294-3952 harveyf1 at westat.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 3:38 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! > > > Hi group, > > it's been a long while since I visited this list, furtunatly > it was because of a .NET project > > But now business as usual. I need convert an A2K to A2k2. > Everything went great. Got some warnings due to the misareble > code but it worked great. Except for 1 thing: > I cannot seem to open, see the database container!? Qua pasa? > > I've checked security settings, "hide databasecontainer" > option (dunno the exact name), hit F11 (is it still F11 in > A2k2) started the BE holding down shift while double clicking > the file, checked that there's no code to disable the shift > => NOTHING. > > So I need to migrate a A2k database (FE+BE) on WinNT4 to A2k2 > on WinXP. > > Any ideas why I do not see the database window? > > Tia, > > Sander From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Aug 19 11:58:22 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:58:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select question Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F02D087FD@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Exactly. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Griffiths, > Richard > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:00 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select question > > Hi John > > I think the 'Select distinct' looks at the uniqueness of the columns > returned in your query and select 'distinctrow' takes into account > columns not returned by the query so > > Col1 Col2 Col3 (Col3 is not Returned but a row in the > table) > 1 A A C > 2 A B C > 3 A B D > > Select distinct would return rows 1 and 2 > Select distinctrow would return rows 1 and 2 and 3 (as it takes col3 > into account) > > Richard > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Eget [mailto:joeget at vgernet.net] > Sent: 19 August 2004 10:26 > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Select question > > What is the difference between select distinct and select distinctrow. > When would I use one instead of the other. I have looked and cannot find > the answer > Thanks > John > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Thu Aug 19 12:01:23 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:01:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Jeffrey F Demulling/MN/USB is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 08/19/2004 and will not return until 08/23/2004. I will respond to your message when I return. Please contact Greg Paoli (651-495-3925) if you have an urgent matter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ============================================================================== From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Aug 19 11:55:55 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:55:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Questio n : x-posted d ba-OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Mark: If you do decide to get into this project be sure to get clear list of information. I find it is best to get a retainer fee up front before any work is started, especially involving dubious adventures. This initial amount provides a number of benefits; First, it shows how serious the clients are, with the project and you. Second, it also implies a commitment on the client's part. Third, it shows that they are willing to pay for work done. Fourth, it will set the business tone of the contract. Fifth, in the worst case scenario, if the project goes 'off the tracks', at least you are not totally out pocket and time. The amount charged ranges from one quarter to one third but that depends on the specific project. The previous are suggestions have worked well with many of my new contracts. Your situation may be different but I hope this helps. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Questio n : x-posted d ba-OT There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm just hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance. Primarily, I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due to the sensitive nature of the data. That alone raises time issues...I have a 40-hour job already...are they going to be willing to allow me to work late into the evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal working hours? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what they need and what the environment is. Take this information to give them an estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing issues and support, if need be. This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope creep, and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get paid for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. HTH, Steve ----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second description was "create a report based on data from several databases". Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices and no estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the unknown variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get some idea of best practices. Thank you, Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 19 16:58:03 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:58:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] [OT] Product Activation. Message-ID: <4125AF0B.23241.33F9214@lexacorp.com.pg> Well it's Friday morning here in PNG already: Brand-new sealed software on the store shelf has product keys that are already used, and have exceeded the maximum number of activations... http://www.w00t-comic.net/20040809.html The actual story behind the comic: http://www.w00t-comic.net/index.html (below the unrelated cartoon) -----8<----- ...every single swinging copy of NAV2004 we had in stock had had its product key poached and that I would have to send every single swinging copy of NAV2004 we had in stock back to the supplier for replacements. When I pointed out that this was kind of silly, as it was very, very possible that the replacements would have also had their product keys poached, the second real human being got very quiet for a minute. "...yeah," she said, "now that you mention it..." -----8<----- -- Stuart From joeget at vgernet.net Thu Aug 19 19:49:17 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:49:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Select question References: Message-ID: <001401c4864f$8eb45da0$8bc2f63f@Desktop> thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Griffiths, Richard" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:00 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Select question > Hi John > > I think the 'Select distinct' looks at the uniqueness of the columns > returned in your query and select 'distinctrow' takes into account > columns not returned by the query so > > Col1 Col2 Col3 (Col3 is not Returned but a row in the > table) > 1 A A C > 2 A B C > 3 A B D > > Select distinct would return rows 1 and 2 > Select distinctrow would return rows 1 and 2 and 3 (as it takes col3 > into account) > > Richard > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Eget [mailto:joeget at vgernet.net] > Sent: 19 August 2004 10:26 > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Select question > > What is the difference between select distinct and select distinctrow. > When would I use one instead of the other. I have looked and cannot find > the answer > Thanks > John > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Thu Aug 19 20:01:16 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:01:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Jeffrey F Demulling/MN/USB is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 08/19/2004 and will not return until 08/23/2004. I will respond to your message when I return. Please contact Greg Paoli (651-495-3925) if you have an urgent matter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ============================================================================== From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 20 08:11:35 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:11:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000e01c486b7$3c0eda40$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Does anyone know how to link a customer record in a database to the matching address in Outlook? I would like to point to outlook rather than entering the contact info in my database. I don't really know how to tell Access the "PK" or pointer to a specific record in an outlook address book. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 20 08:33:03 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:33:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook In-Reply-To: <000e01c486b7$3c0eda40$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20040820133303.UPOH1787.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> John, you can link manually, but I'm guessing you don't want to do that? Oh yeah, I think to link manually, Outlook must be the system's default client, which is often a problem anyway. I'd check Helen's site. Susan H. Does anyone know how to link a customer record in a database to the matching address in Outlook? I would like to point to outlook rather than entering the contact info in my database. I don't really know how to tell Access the "PK" or pointer to a specific record in an outlook address book. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 20 08:34:04 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:34:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: External hard disk Message-ID: <000f01c486ba$654d99c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Just an addendum to this message, while the transfer rate is fairly high at 25mb / sec the CPU utilization is immense, averaging about 60% on my P64 3g laptop. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 10:49 PM To: 'dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: External hard disk I purchased a "mobile disk" external hard disk enclosure from CompUSA to put one of the 200gb hard disks in so I could take the db with me and work off my laptop. I found a diag program out there somewhere that tested the transfer speed. For USB 2.0 the transfer speed was ~25 mbyte / sec. For fire wire (4 pin) it was only 17.5 mbyte / sec. This with the Maxtor 200g 8mb cache. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Aug 20 08:38:44 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:38:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook Message-ID: Using your link table wizard, link to whichever Exchange/Outlook address book contains your contact info...then it is just another table. Exchange & Outlook are both available as "linkable". Mark -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 9:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook Does anyone know how to link a customer record in a database to the matching address in Outlook? I would like to point to outlook rather than entering the contact info in my database. I don't really know how to tell Access the "PK" or pointer to a specific record in an outlook address book. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Fri Aug 20 09:05:16 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:05:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number Message-ID: Try EVALNO: "EVAL-" & [DISCIPLINENO] & "-" & FORMAT(NOW(), "YY") & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000" Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Hollis,Virginia > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:15 AM > To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' > Subject: [AccessD] Format Year in a number > > Yes, the current year, but I need the year formatted with > just 2 digits. I tried this & get 2004, I just need 04. > ********************** > You mean the current year? > > EvalNo: "EVAL-" & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Year(Now)) & "-" & > Format([EVTaskNum],"000") > > Susan H. > > I need to assign a number for a document that contains the > discipline number, the year, and a new task number. I can't > seem to get the year part to work - how do I have it add the > year to a number (and it must change every year too)? The > year would come after the discipline so the number would be: > EVAL-123-04-001. > > > > EvalNo: "EVAL " & [DisciplineNo] & "-" & Format([EVTaskNum],"000") > > > > Virginia > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 20 09:06:10 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:06:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook In-Reply-To: <000e01c486b7$3c0eda40$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> References: <000e01c486b7$3c0eda40$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <4325844201.20040820160610@cactus.dk> Hi John This should get you started. Access ExchSys utility: http://www.trigeminal.com/lang/1033/utility.asp?ItemID=14 The Jet 4.0 Exchange/Outlook IISAM: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart00/html/sa00h12.asp /gustav > Does anyone know how to link a customer record in a database to the matching > address in Outlook? I would like to point to outlook rather than entering > the contact info in my database. I don't really know how to tell Access the > "PK" or pointer to a specific record in an outlook address book. > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Fri Aug 20 09:26:06 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:26:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Field Problem Message-ID: <0CC84C9461AE6445AD5A602001C41C4B059E2A@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Hi All, A2K (no SPs), Jet 4.0 SP8 I have a table with a memo field. If I open the table directly and look at a particular record where the memo field contains more than 255 characters, the data is truncated at 255. If I create a query that uses this same table, the field in the query that show the data in the memo field is truncated. If I use Dlookup to return the memo field the data is truncated. BUT...if I create a form that uses this table as its record source and I put a text box on the form that is bound to the memo field, the data is NOT truncated. Is there a work around to this problem? I have already read MSKB Q291529, which outlines a similar problem that I can reproduce but the solution of update jet to latest service part did not work. Thanks for any help you provide! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 20 09:38:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:38:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Field Problem In-Reply-To: <0CC84C9461AE6445AD5A602001C41C4B059E2A@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Message-ID: <000101c486c3$5013b4f0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> You need to apply at least up to SP1a. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Rojas Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 10:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Memo Field Problem Hi All, A2K (no SPs), Jet 4.0 SP8 I have a table with a memo field. If I open the table directly and look at a particular record where the memo field contains more than 255 characters, the data is truncated at 255. If I create a query that uses this same table, the field in the query that show the data in the memo field is truncated. If I use Dlookup to return the memo field the data is truncated. BUT...if I create a form that uses this table as its record source and I put a text box on the form that is bound to the memo field, the data is NOT truncated. Is there a work around to this problem? I have already read MSKB Q291529, which outlines a similar problem that I can reproduce but the solution of update jet to latest service part did not work. Thanks for any help you provide! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 20 09:38:59 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:38:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook In-Reply-To: <4325844201.20040820160610@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000201c486c3$6e09b090$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Thanks. It seems silly to keep the data in two places. Just goes against my database normalization brain. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 10:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook Hi John This should get you started. Access ExchSys utility: http://www.trigeminal.com/lang/1033/utility.asp?ItemID=14 The Jet 4.0 Exchange/Outlook IISAM: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart00/h tml/sa00h12.asp /gustav > Does anyone know how to link a customer record in a database to the > matching address in Outlook? I would like to point to outlook rather > than entering the contact info in my database. I don't really know > how to tell Access the "PK" or pointer to a specific record in an > outlook address book. > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 20 09:55:10 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:55:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook In-Reply-To: <000201c486c3$6e09b090$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> References: <000201c486c3$6e09b090$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <13128784119.20040820165510@cactus.dk> Hi John > Thanks. It seems silly to keep the data in two places. Just goes against > my database normalization brain. ;-) Given the Outlook database I'm not sure how silly that would be ... Maybe you rather should aim for a replication system? /gustav > This should get you started. > Access ExchSys utility: > http://www.trigeminal.com/lang/1033/utility.asp?ItemID=14 > The Jet 4.0 Exchange/Outlook IISAM: > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart00/html/sa00h12.asp >> Does anyone know how to link a customer record in a database to the >> matching address in Outlook? I would like to point to outlook rather >> than entering the contact info in my database. I don't really know >> how to tell Access the "PK" or pointer to a specific record in an >> outlook address book. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 20 10:11:02 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:11:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook In-Reply-To: <13128784119.20040820165510@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000301c486c7$e85b2dc0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> ROTFL John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linking a database to a specific address in Outlook Hi John > Thanks. It seems silly to keep the data in two places. Just goes > against my database normalization brain. ;-) Given the Outlook database I'm not sure how silly that would be ... Maybe you rather should aim for a replication system? /gustav > This should get you started. > Access ExchSys utility: > http://www.trigeminal.com/lang/1033/utility.asp?ItemID=14 > The Jet 4.0 Exchange/Outlook IISAM: > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsma > rt00/html/sa00h12.asp >> Does anyone know how to link a customer record in a database to the >> matching address in Outlook? I would like to point to outlook rather >> than entering the contact info in my database. I don't really know >> how to tell Access the "PK" or pointer to a specific record in an >> outlook address book. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From GregSmith at starband.net Fri Aug 20 11:30:52 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:30:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] References-Converted to 2k code stops on Usysreferencescheck module In-Reply-To: <13128784119.20040820165510@cactus.dk> References: <000201c486c3$6e09b090$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> <13128784119.20040820165510@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <1567.216.43.21.235.1093019452.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi everyone! Happy FRIDAY! I'm using Gustav's code to check references in Access 97, and, it works great in A97. I'm using the code that runs via the autoexec from his article in the Archives. After converting to A2k (on the way to XP/2003), the program dies during the execution of the autoexec when it hits the code: DoCmd.OpenModule "Usysreferencescheck", "" where Usysreferencescheck is an empty module. Apparently A2k doesn't like this. There is no error or message, it just brings up the visual basic editor and quits. Or am I missing something else? TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net From john at winhaven.net Fri Aug 20 13:14:20 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:14:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, Stuart, etal: OK, I going to give disabling OPLOCKs a try. One question - is rebooting required after changing this setting? I couldn't find the answer. (Just scheduling issue really - if so I'll have to do it after work hours). Thanks, John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) John, Not sure I understand this last bit: <> Is this terminal services or Citrix? Not exactly sure what you mean by "session". And at the end, your saying after doing this the server now sees the MDB file as closed for each of the work stations? Also, more specifics on the setup: 1. Client OS 2. Server OS 3. Network protocol(s) in use Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) I just had a chance to try out some of the previous suggestions. (I haven't had a chance to check out OPLOCKS yet and I haven't downloaded PsTools yet.) I checked the file/folder permissions -check I checked the AV scanner exception list -ldb was in the exception list mdb wasn't I added that I ran the multiple applications on three workstations simultaneously and then closed them out properly, I checked the task list on each workstation -nothing listed Checked the open files on the server -ldbs were not open, mdbs were left open Returned to each workstation check processes with third party tool -nothing there Logged out of workstation with session files open, checked server open files -files closed Any other ideas? John B -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 20 13:16:35 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:16:35 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] References-Converted to 2k code stops on Usysreferencescheck module In-Reply-To: <1567.216.43.21.235.1093019452.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> References: <000201c486c3$6e09b090$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> <13128784119.20040820165510@cactus.dk> <1567.216.43.21.235.1093019452.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: <15640869166.20040820201635@cactus.dk> Hi Greg That's nearly right. The command shown will open the module; however, the following Close command will close the app and not just the module window as in A97. The quick-n-dirty solution seems to replace the macro entry having the Close command with: SendKeys Keypress: %FC Wait: No The usual commands for entering menuitems as well as Alt+Q seems to be ignored when switching to the VB editor window ... Also, the Echo Off and On command entries can be omitted as they don't work for switching to the VB editor window. /gustav > Hi everyone! Happy FRIDAY! > I'm using Gustav's code to check references in Access 97, and, it works > great in A97. I'm using the code that runs via the autoexec from his > article in the Archives. After converting to A2k (on the way to XP/2003), > the program dies during the execution of the autoexec when it hits the > code: > DoCmd.OpenModule "Usysreferencescheck", "" > where Usysreferencescheck is an empty module. Apparently A2k doesn't like > this. There is no error or message, it just brings up the visual basic > editor and quits. > Or am I missing something else? > TIA! > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 20 13:55:48 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:55:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation Message-ID: <01a401c486e7$4ebdb780$6601a8c0@rock> I have a table with a bunch of columns containing numeric values, most of them recording tons, a few recording values, and one recording the last day of a given month. There may be 10 years of data. Each month is represented by one row using its last day as the identifier. Then we have a bunch of columns whose values come from a collection of tables (i.e. sales figures, production figures, etc.). Some of the values are input by (alleged) humans. For example (these are just a few of said columns) Opening Stocks -- numeric Working Stocks -- stock on hand to cover emergencies (plant shutdown, worker strike, machine breakdown etc.) Production -- numbers derived from a table sent to my client by the producer (in this case a mine) There are a couple of dozen such columns. Now, to my question. I need to present this data in a sort-of spreadsheet format, wherein every column (save the date) is presented as a row, and the values are presented in the appropriate Year/Month column, so that the result looks like this: Jan 2005 Feb 2005 Mar 2005 etc. Opening Stocks 6843 6829 etc. Working Stocks 5500 5500 etc. Production 10572 10121 etc. I've been playing around with the crosstab wizard, at which I am no expert, but it doesn't seem to be giving me what I want. The PivotTable wizard is closer to what I need, and quite powerful, but I still can't get exactly what I want. Any ideas? Maybe I have to do it all in code? Or maybe I just need to learn more about either the crosstab or the pivot-table wizard? TIA, Arthur P.S. This is an Access MDB not a SQL BE. From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 20 14:08:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:08:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] References-Converted to 2k code stops on Usysreferencescheck module In-Reply-To: <1567.216.43.21.235.1093019452.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> References: <000201c486c3$6e09b090$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> <13128784119.20040820165510@cactus.dk> <1567.216.43.21.235.1093019452.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: <8943967091.20040820210812@cactus.dk> Hi Greg et all Create this tiny function for closing the VBE window: Public Function VbeMainWindowClose() Application.VBE.MainWindow.Visible = False End Function Then adjust the AutoExec macro like this: OpenModule UsysReferencesCheck RunCode VbeMainWindowClose() RunCommand CompileAndSaveAllModules Please let me know if this works for you. /gustav > Date: 2004-08-20 18:30 > Hi everyone! Happy FRIDAY! > I'm using Gustav's code to check references in Access 97, and, it works > great in A97. I'm using the code that runs via the autoexec from his > article in the Archives. After converting to A2k (on the way to XP/2003), > the program dies during the execution of the autoexec when it hits the > code: > DoCmd.OpenModule "Usysreferencescheck", "" > where Usysreferencescheck is an empty module. Apparently A2k doesn't like > this. There is no error or message, it just brings up the visual basic > editor and quits. > Or am I missing something else? > TIA! > Greg Smith > gregsmith at starband.net From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 20 14:11:31 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:11:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation In-Reply-To: <01a401c486e7$4ebdb780$6601a8c0@rock> References: <01a401c486e7$4ebdb780$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <6544165486.20040820211131@cactus.dk> Hi Arthur How is this different from a crosstab? Seems a perfect match to me ... /gustav > I have a table with a bunch of columns containing numeric values, most > of them recording tons, a few recording values, and one recording the > last day of a given month. There may be 10 years of data. Each month is > represented by one row using its last day as the identifier. Then we > have a bunch of columns whose values come from a collection of tables > (i.e. sales figures, production figures, etc.). Some of the values are > input by (alleged) humans. > For example (these are just a few of said columns) > Opening Stocks -- numeric > Working Stocks -- stock on hand to cover emergencies (plant shutdown, > worker strike, machine breakdown etc.) > Production -- numbers derived from a table sent to my client by the > producer (in this case a mine) > There are a couple of dozen such columns. > Now, to my question. I need to present this data in a sort-of > spreadsheet format, wherein every column (save the date) is presented as > a row, and the values are presented in the appropriate Year/Month > column, so that the result looks like this: > Jan 2005 Feb 2005 Mar 2005 etc. > Opening Stocks 6843 6829 etc. > Working Stocks 5500 5500 etc. > Production 10572 10121 etc. > I've been playing around with the crosstab wizard, at which I am no > expert, but it doesn't seem to be giving me what I want. The PivotTable > wizard is closer to what I need, and quite powerful, but I still can't > get exactly what I want. > Any ideas? Maybe I have to do it all in code? Or maybe I just need to > learn more about either the crosstab or the pivot-table wizard? > TIA, > Arthur > P.S. > This is an Access MDB not a SQL BE. From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Aug 20 15:35:07 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:35:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Reboot required. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 2:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) Jim, Stuart, etal: OK, I going to give disabling OPLOCKs a try. One question - is rebooting required after changing this setting? I couldn't find the answer. (Just scheduling issue really - if so I'll have to do it after work hours). Thanks, John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) John, Not sure I understand this last bit: <> Is this terminal services or Citrix? Not exactly sure what you mean by "session". And at the end, your saying after doing this the server now sees the MDB file as closed for each of the work stations? Also, more specifics on the setup: 1. Client OS 2. Server OS 3. Network protocol(s) in use Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) I just had a chance to try out some of the previous suggestions. (I haven't had a chance to check out OPLOCKS yet and I haven't downloaded PsTools yet.) I checked the file/folder permissions -check I checked the AV scanner exception list -ldb was in the exception list mdb wasn't I added that I ran the multiple applications on three workstations simultaneously and then closed them out properly, I checked the task list on each workstation -nothing listed Checked the open files on the server -ldbs were not open, mdbs were left open Returned to each workstation check processes with third party tool -nothing there Logged out of workstation with session files open, checked server open files -files closed Any other ideas? John B -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Fri Aug 20 18:54:18 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:54:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Convert Access 97 to 2003 and SQL Server Message-ID: <001301c48711$01cca880$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> I need to convert an Access 97 application (w/ front end and back end databases) to Access 2003. I downloaded Microsoft's Conversion Toolkit to help with this process (which I have not yet started). My client has also asked me to check into converting the application to SQL Server. I believe that there are utilities to convert Access back end data to SQL Server. Is this correct? Will the front end database need to be modified as well to access SQL Server data? Thanks, Barb Ryan From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 20 19:08:00 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:08:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question :x-posted d ba-OT In-Reply-To: <003101c485ff$3b1f53c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <01db01c48712$eba66c10$6601a8c0@rock> Wow, the voice of experience! As a comedienne whose name eludes me once said, "I've never fallen in love, but I have stepped in it." I have a very brutal rule: I need a sample data set as small as possible but that covers all the possibilities, with known results, so that I can verify all reports etc. before shipping the version to the client. Assuming for example five SalesTypes or somesuch, I demand one example of each with all attendant details. Client doesn't agree to supply this minimal data set, I fire the client. Nuff said. Get an illegal immigrant to write the app and chase the insigificant dollars for months. It won't be me. As a very highly skilled painter once said to me, "Let the others do the two-bedroom apartments. I hold out for the mansions." And you know what? It worked! He had all the work he could handle. People doing $100K renovations would wait a month to hire him instead of going with someone else who was cheaper and available now. Among other things, he taught me how to paint doors and window frames so they look as smooth as glass. The hardest lesson in this business is how to recognize and fire the unprofitable clients. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question :x-posted d ba-OT If this truly is "once off" then it is better to lose the job than get it and get sucked into a quagmire. Ask them over the phone BEFORE any meetings to get together the data that needs to be looked at, draw up a report structure they would like to see, the list of tables and databases that it comes from. If they know it is "coming from several databases" then they must have some knowledge of this. Schedule a meeting. GIVE them one hour free of charge, plus travel time. Look at what they need and try to nail down in your own mind what is involved. At the end of that hour you should be able to tell them roughly how big a job it is. Tell them. Be prepared BEFORE you go in with what you want on an hourly basis. Then you can tell them X hours times Y dollars. Don't worry if they never call back. If they don't call back you don't want to work for them. The biggest thing to remember is that clients who "don't want to pay much" are a royal PITA with no real concept of what is involved and you are well done with them. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm just hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance. Primarily, I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due to the sensitive nature of the data. That alone raises time issues...I have a 40-hour job already...are they going to be willing to allow me to work late into the evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal working hours? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question : x-posted d ba-OT Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!! I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has been this: If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex; if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy, and the client will be easily impressed. I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what they need and what the environment is. Take this information to give them an estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task. Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing issues and support, if need be. This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task. Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope creep, and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get paid for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy. HTH, Steve ----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message----- If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the following scenario. A co-worker has just given my name/number to a small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second description was "create a report based on data from several databases". Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high prices and no estimation as to time of completion. First question, how do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered similarly to everyone else? At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;) However, the unknown variables have me concerned. I'm sure many of you, when you first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc. What I'm politely asking is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this? At the moment, this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc. In the short term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm just hoping to get some idea of best practices. Thank you, Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri Aug 20 19:11:51 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:11:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation In-Reply-To: <6544165486.20040820211131@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <01dc01c48713$75c3ef80$6601a8c0@rock> I thought so too, and that's why I designed the table that way, but I can't seem to make it work. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 3:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation Hi Arthur How is this different from a crosstab? Seems a perfect match to me ... /gustav From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Aug 20 19:26:45 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:26:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] re:[dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question :x-posted d ba-OT In-Reply-To: <01db01c48712$eba66c10$6601a8c0@rock> References: <003101c485ff$3b1f53c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <41272365.7099.3CEE0C9@lexacorp.com.pg> On 20 Aug 2004 at 20:08, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Wow, the voice of experience! > > As a comedienne whose name eludes me once said, "I've never fallen in > love, but I have stepped in it." > Rita Rudner. -- Stuart From GregSmith at starband.net Fri Aug 20 22:25:22 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 22:25:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] References-Converted to 2k code stops on Usysreferencescheck module In-Reply-To: <8943967091.20040820210812@cactus.dk> References: <000201c486c3$6e09b090$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> <13128784119.20040820165510@cactus.dk> <1567.216.43.21.235.1093019452.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> <8943967091.20040820210812@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <42079.170.206.250.82.1093058722.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi Gustav I'll give this a try tomorrow (or at the latest Monday)...but we're out camping right now and I'm toooooo tired to think very hard tonight. Thanks for the tip & code, I do appreciate your help! I'll let you know the results as soon as I get them tested. Greg > Hi Greg et all > > Create this tiny function for closing the VBE window: > > > > Public Function VbeMainWindowClose() > > Application.VBE.MainWindow.Visible = False > > End Function > > > > Then adjust the AutoExec macro like this: > > > > OpenModule > UsysReferencesCheck > > RunCode > VbeMainWindowClose() > > RunCommand > CompileAndSaveAllModules > > > > Please let me know if this works for you. > > /gustav > > >> Date: 2004-08-20 18:30 > >> Hi everyone! Happy FRIDAY! > >> I'm using Gustav's code to check references in Access 97, and, it >> works great in A97. I'm using the code that runs via the autoexec >> from his article in the Archives. After converting to A2k (on the way >> to XP/2003), the program dies during the execution of the autoexec >> when it hits the code: > >> DoCmd.OpenModule "Usysreferencescheck", "" > >> where Usysreferencescheck is an empty module. Apparently A2k doesn't >> like this. There is no error or message, it just brings up the visual >> basic editor and quits. > >> Or am I missing something else? > >> TIA! > >> Greg Smith >> gregsmith at starband.net From john at winhaven.net Fri Aug 20 23:03:57 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:03:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, Looks like an after hours party then. Thanks! John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 3:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) John, Reboot required. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 2:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) Jim, Stuart, etal: OK, I going to give disabling OPLOCKs a try. One question - is rebooting required after changing this setting? I couldn't find the answer. (Just scheduling issue really - if so I'll have to do it after work hours). Thanks, John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 6:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) John, Not sure I understand this last bit: <> Is this terminal services or Citrix? Not exactly sure what you mean by "session". And at the end, your saying after doing this the server now sees the MDB file as closed for each of the work stations? Also, more specifics on the setup: 1. Client OS 2. Server OS 3. Network protocol(s) in use Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Clear Locks Via OS (was: A table that can'tbeduplicated) I just had a chance to try out some of the previous suggestions. (I haven't had a chance to check out OPLOCKS yet and I haven't downloaded PsTools yet.) I checked the file/folder permissions -check I checked the AV scanner exception list -ldb was in the exception list mdb wasn't I added that I ran the multiple applications on three workstations simultaneously and then closed them out properly, I checked the task list on each workstation -nothing listed Checked the open files on the server -ldbs were not open, mdbs were left open Returned to each workstation check processes with third party tool -nothing there Logged out of workstation with session files open, checked server open files -files closed Any other ideas? John B -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sat Aug 21 12:57:01 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:57:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Convert Access 97 to 2003 and SQL Server References: <001301c48711$01cca880$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <41278CED.5090406@shaw.ca> The conversion tool kit only reports on areas of concern that have to be addressed later by the Upsizing wizard (available from Tools Database Utilities menu) Handy, if you have to fix a hundred reports. Have a look at this article by Susan, to help you decide whether to go with ADP or MDB Access 2003 front ends. Using Access to build a front end for SQL Server http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-6329-5065669.html?fromtm=e056 One major question to be addressed is your client buying a license for SQL Server or are you going to use MSDE 2000. And is your client savvy enough to handle SQL backups and restore or are you going to write all the code to make this transparent.. If using MSDE 2000, the client may not have the use of SQL Enterprise Manager. So you may have to use something like this freebie from a Microsoft MVP DBA Manager 2K to handle user security and backup etc. http://www.asql.biz/DbaMgr.shtm There is a new version of MSDE 2000 called SQL Server Express that is in Beta just now. It will get around the 5 user throttling problem, allows 4 Gig database with enhanced security. It will also come with its own version of EM but that hasn't been released yet. You might want to pick up this book too SQL: Access to SQL Server by Susan Sales Harkins, Martin W.P. Reid Barbara Ryan wrote: >I need to convert an Access 97 application (w/ front end and back end databases) to Access 2003. I downloaded Microsoft's Conversion Toolkit to help with this process (which I have not yet started). > >My client has also asked me to check into converting the application to SQL Server. I believe that there are utilities to convert Access back end data to SQL Server. Is this correct? Will the front end database need to be modified as well to access SQL Server data? > >Thanks, >Barb Ryan > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Aug 21 13:05:21 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 20:05:21 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Reference, Property, Kind, constants? Message-ID: <19941518430.20040821200521@cactus.dk> Hi all Anyone familiar with the VBE constants for the "Kind" property of a reference? It can be 0 or 1. Two constants are listed at Microsoft: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbaac11/html/acprokind.asp vbext_rk_TypeLib and vbext_rk_Project, but these are neither recognised by my Access 97 nor Access 2002. Is this an Access 2003 speciality? /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Aug 21 13:32:24 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 20:32:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Reference, Property, Kind, constants? In-Reply-To: <19941518430.20040821200521@cactus.dk> References: <19941518430.20040821200521@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <9943141764.20040821203224@cactus.dk> Hi all Susan informed me, that these comes from the VBIDE library: Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications Extensibility 5.3 If you add this to your references, you've got the constants. The purpose of is this library is briefly explained here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/modcore/html/deconWorkingWithMicrosoftVisualBasicForApplicationsExtensibility53Library.asp Sorry for the long URL. /gustav > Anyone familiar with the VBE constants for the "Kind" property of a > reference? > It can be 0 or 1. > Two constants are listed at Microsoft: > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vbaac11/html/acprokind.asp > vbext_rk_TypeLib and vbext_rk_Project, > but these are neither recognised by my Access 97 nor Access 2002. > Is this an Access 2003 speciality? > /gustav From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Sat Aug 21 14:19:11 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:19:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Convert Access 97 to 2003 and SQL Server References: <001301c48711$01cca880$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> <41278CED.5090406@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <000a01c487b3$bd16cba0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Marty.... I appreciate all the info! --- Thanks, Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Convert Access 97 to 2003 and SQL Server > The conversion tool kit only reports on areas of concern that have to be > addressed later by the Upsizing wizard (available from Tools Database > Utilities menu) > Handy, if you have to fix a hundred reports. > Have a look at this article by Susan, to help you decide whether to go > with ADP or MDB Access 2003 front ends. > > Using Access to build a front end for SQL Server > http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-6329-5065669.html?fromtm=e056 > > One major question to be addressed is your client buying a license for > SQL Server or are you going to use MSDE 2000. > And is your client savvy enough to handle SQL backups and restore or are > you going to write all the code to make this transparent.. > > If using MSDE 2000, the client may not have the use of SQL Enterprise > Manager. > So you may have to use something like this freebie from a Microsoft MVP > DBA Manager 2K to handle user security and backup etc. > http://www.asql.biz/DbaMgr.shtm > There is a new version of MSDE 2000 called SQL Server Express that is in > Beta just now. > It will get around the 5 user throttling problem, allows 4 Gig database > with enhanced security. > It will also come with its own version of EM but that hasn't been > released yet. > You might want to pick up this book too > SQL: Access to SQL Server by Susan Sales Harkins, Martin W.P. Reid > > Barbara Ryan wrote: > > >I need to convert an Access 97 application (w/ front end and back end databases) to Access 2003. I downloaded Microsoft's Conversion Toolkit to help with this process (which I have not yet started). > > > >My client has also asked me to check into converting the application to SQL Server. I believe that there are utilities to convert Access back end data to SQL Server. Is this correct? Will the front end database need to be modified as well to access SQL Server data? > > > >Thanks, > >Barb Ryan > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun Aug 22 09:04:02 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 07:04:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation References: <01a401c486e7$4ebdb780$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <005001c48850$e11a87b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Arthur: Seems like code would be the fastest way. Set up a table with as many fields as there are records in the current table. Create the first record in the new table as the dates of the old table. The first field in each record of the new table would be the field name of the column in the old table. Then loop through the first table sorting the data into the records of the new table. The report would then just be a mirror of the new table. I use this 'temp table' approach all the time for complex reports instead of fooling around trying to get complex queries to do it. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "AccessD" Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 11:55 AM Subject: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation > I have a table with a bunch of columns containing numeric values, most > of them recording tons, a few recording values, and one recording the > last day of a given month. There may be 10 years of data. Each month is > represented by one row using its last day as the identifier. Then we > have a bunch of columns whose values come from a collection of tables > (i.e. sales figures, production figures, etc.). Some of the values are > input by (alleged) humans. > > For example (these are just a few of said columns) > > Opening Stocks -- numeric > Working Stocks -- stock on hand to cover emergencies (plant shutdown, > worker strike, machine breakdown etc.) > Production -- numbers derived from a table sent to my client by the > producer (in this case a mine) > > There are a couple of dozen such columns. > > Now, to my question. I need to present this data in a sort-of > spreadsheet format, wherein every column (save the date) is presented as > a row, and the values are presented in the appropriate Year/Month > column, so that the result looks like this: > > Jan 2005 Feb 2005 Mar 2005 etc. > Opening Stocks 6843 6829 etc. > Working Stocks 5500 5500 etc. > Production 10572 10121 etc. > > I've been playing around with the crosstab wizard, at which I am no > expert, but it doesn't seem to be giving me what I want. The PivotTable > wizard is closer to what I need, and quite powerful, but I still can't > get exactly what I want. > > Any ideas? Maybe I have to do it all in code? Or maybe I just need to > learn more about either the crosstab or the pivot-table wizard? > > TIA, > Arthur > > P.S. > This is an Access MDB not a SQL BE. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 22 09:15:21 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 10:15:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation In-Reply-To: <005001c48850$e11a87b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <20040822141521.DWYV1756.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Arthur, if it's a one-time deal, could you export to Excel and use the Transpose feature? Susan H. Arthur: Seems like code would be the fastest way. Set up a table with as many fields as there are records in the current table. Create the first record in the new table as the dates of the old table. The first field in each record of the new table would be the field name of the column in the old table. Then loop through the first table sorting the data into the records of the new table. The report would then just be a mirror of the new table. I use this 'temp table' approach all the time for complex reports instead of fooling around trying to get complex queries to do it. From artful at rogers.com Sun Aug 22 19:51:59 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:51:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Open a form in datasheet mode from switchboard In-Reply-To: <20040822141521.DWYV1756.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <006a01c488ab$657d4470$6601a8c0@rock> How do I open a form in datasheet mode from the standard switchboard? What I CAN do is write a one-line sub and call it instead: DoCmd.OpenForm "Position_frm_ds", acFormDS This works fine, but it seems pointless to write a one-line sub that executes this. Can I avoid this and somehow pass a parameter to the "Open Form in Edit Mode" option instead? No big deal, really. I just have to write a one-liner, and I already have, but still it seems a bit stupid to do so. TIA, Arthur From artful at rogers.com Sun Aug 22 20:48:00 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:48:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation In-Reply-To: <005001c48850$e11a87b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <007201c488b3$3946c7c0$6601a8c0@rock> Maybe it would have been the fastest way for you, but I did it with a bunch of SQL queries and UNIONs (thanks BIG to Gustav for his assistance). The splendid side-effect of this approach is that a datasheet form based on the query automatically includes future columns! Beauty! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 10:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Advice on a table transformation Arthur: Seems like code would be the fastest way. Set up a table with as many fields as there are records in the current table. Create the first record in the new table as the dates of the old table. The first field in each record of the new table would be the field name of the column in the old table. Then loop through the first table sorting the data into the records of the new table. The report would then just be a mirror of the new table. I use this 'temp table' approach all the time for complex reports instead of fooling around trying to get complex queries to do it. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 23 03:38:16 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 01:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! In-Reply-To: <446DDE75CFC7E1438061462F85557B0F0481EA19@remail2.westat.com> Message-ID: <20040823083816.49218.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> thnx, tried all that. Didn't solve the problem. Francis Harvey wrote:Sander, Check the Window menu to see if you can Unhide any windows. If not, bad screen location perhaps? Click one of the Tile options to see if the window gets resized and placed in a visible location. Francis R Harvey III WB 303, (301)294-3952 harveyf1 at westat.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 3:38 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! > > > Hi group, > > it's been a long while since I visited this list, furtunatly > it was because of a .NET project > > But now business as usual. I need convert an A2K to A2k2. > Everything went great. Got some warnings due to the misareble > code but it worked great. Except for 1 thing: > I cannot seem to open, see the database container!? Qua pasa? > > I've checked security settings, "hide databasecontainer" > option (dunno the exact name), hit F11 (is it still F11 in > A2k2) started the BE holding down shift while double clicking > the file, checked that there's no code to disable the shift > => NOTHING. > > So I need to migrate a A2k database (FE+BE) on WinNT4 to A2k2 > on WinXP. > > Any ideas why I do not see the database window? > > Tia, > > Sander -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! From accessd667 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 23 03:41:36 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 01:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040823084136.19257.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> I can indeed do everything I want using the menu. Do you perhaps have some code I code use to show the database window? For my understanding. If I can see the database container in an AXP database what can you conclude from that? TIA Sander Charlotte Foust wrote: Have you tried creating a new AXP database and importing all the objects rom the other one? Can you see the database window in that? It sounds like you can get into the code module, so have you tried writing some code to show the database window? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:38 PM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! Hi group, it's been a long while since I visited this list, furtunatly it was because of a .NET project But now business as usual. I need convert an A2K to A2k2. Everything went great. Got some warnings due to the misareble code but it worked great. Except for 1 thing: I cannot seem to open, see the database container!? Qua pasa? I've checked security settings, "hide databasecontainer" option (dunno the exact name), hit F11 (is it still F11 in A2k2) started the BE holding down shift while double clicking the file, checked that there's no code to disable the shift => NOTHING. So I need to migrate a A2k database (FE+BE) on WinNT4 to A2k2 on WinXP. Any ideas why I do not see the database window? Tia, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Mon Aug 23 05:14:26 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:14:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Message-ID: Hi John Sorry to be so long in replying. We had a big server crash. Your memo field idea seems to be exactly it. Instead of copying just the structure and appending, desperation had me replace the most suspect memo with a text field instead - and suddenly it was a friendly table, happy to be copied a million times. That's a quirk I won't forget in a hurry. Many thanks, John. Thanks too to Messrs Marty Connelly, Joe Hecht, jim dettman, and John Bartow. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: 17 August 2004 17:17 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated Are there any memo fields in the table? If so that may be the problem, memos get corrupted. If that is the case it is one or more specific memos (specific records). The easiest way to determine is to create the table structure only (empty) in another db then append all the records to that table. If there are corrupt memos the copy will fail. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodgers [mailto:Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] A table that can't be duplicated The main table in a database won't be copied. Access says another user is busy with the table. But this is not so. I can't copy the table and rename the table, I can't import it into another database, I can't use a MakeTable query to do it that way. etc etc --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From jimdettman at earthlink.net Mon Aug 23 08:27:02 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:27:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! In-Reply-To: <20040819073743.27941.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It's probably scrolled off the visible portion of the screen. Open the database with he shift key held down. Do you get a blank window? Are there scroll bars? If yes, then scroll all the way to the bottom, then to the right slowly. It's usually hanging out somewhere along the bottom edge of the window. Jim Dettman (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 3:38 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Convert to A2k => database container gone?! Hi group, it's been a long while since I visited this list, furtunatly it was because of a .NET project But now business as usual. I need convert an A2K to A2k2. Everything went great. Got some warnings due to the misareble code but it worked great. Except for 1 thing: I cannot seem to open, see the database container!? Qua pasa? I've checked security settings, "hide databasecontainer" option (dunno the exact name), hit F11 (is it still F11 in A2k2) started the BE holding down shift while double clicking the file, checked that there's no code to disable the shift => NOTHING. So I need to migrate a A2k database (FE+BE) on WinNT4 to A2k2 on WinXP. Any ideas why I do not see the database window? Tia, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rmoore at comtechpst.com Mon Aug 23 10:02:26 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:02:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Message-ID: <002401c48922$33db4d00$6214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> To all, I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one of my queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in Expression'. I am told it was a full blown install of A2K, but something appears to be missing. Any ideas? TIA, as always, Ron From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 23 10:32:54 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:32:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: In-Reply-To: <002401c48922$33db4d00$6214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> References: <002401c48922$33db4d00$6214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <1420941992.20040823173254@cactus.dk> Hi Ron This is an old bug that may not have been solved yet: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;225956 /gustav > I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the > expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one of my > queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in Expression'. I am > told it was a full blown install of A2K, but something appears to be > missing. > Any ideas? > TIA, as always, > Ron From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 23 11:13:19 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:13:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access In-Reply-To: <002401c48922$33db4d00$6214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <010501c4892c$1b45c4a0$6601a8c0@rock> Is there any way to replace the straight-vertical apostrophes and quotation marks that Access uses with the curly ones that Word uses? I've tried to export a report in Times Roman to Word and they come in vertical. Yet when I type within that document I get the curly variety? Obviously the ANSI codes are different, so a wildcard find-and-replace could do it, if I could figure out how to tell Word to perform that kind of find-and-replace. Does anyone know how to do that in Word? TIA, Arthur From garykjos at hotmail.com Mon Aug 23 11:42:19 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:42:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Message-ID: I do not recognise "MonthName" as a standard built in Access function. Perhaps its from some kind of add-in library you use? I would normally obtain a month's name using the Format function with a "mmmm" parameter. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Ron Moore" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: >Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:02:26 -0400 > >To all, > >I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the >expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one of my >queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in Expression'. I >am >told it was a full blown install of A2K, but something appears to be >missing. > >Any ideas? >TIA, as always, >Ron >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Mon Aug 23 14:42:42 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:42:42 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0ADAFB@stekelbes.ithelps.local> That probably a missing reference. Check the VBA references at your customers computer. Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ron Moore Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 5:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: To all, I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one of my queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in Expression'. I am told it was a full blown install of A2K, but something appears to be missing. Any ideas? TIA, as always, Ron -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 23 15:20:15 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:20:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] EXCEL 2002: How do I user/simulate a Timer event in Excel form References: Message-ID: <412A517F.3020908@shaw.ca> You might want to post the Excel question here or look through archives http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/excel-g.html John Fejsa wrote: >Hi Everyone > >I have a very long import procedure that's executed from a menu option. >I would like to open an "Import" message form and animate a file flying >from one side of the form (one folder) to the other side (another >folder) until the import is completed. I can easily do it with other >applications but find very hard to do with Excel forms, for example when >I use Microsoft Access, I use a Timer event and move the file >fractionally every few seconds to simulate the movement. However, Excel >forms do not appear to have Timer events like Access or VB. > >I tried to simulate a time event with Excel form but without success; >can anyone help? > >I tried various methods with Excel but none worked. >"Application.OnTime" looks promising but it does not work for me. Below >is one method I used to test the procedure (while testing I just tried >to show one image and hide another). Rather then having " BlinkMover" >procedure executing every second as expected, the procedure acually >executes only once (only when the calling "OpenSession" procedure is >finished; defeats the reason for using the timer...) > >Any help would be greatly appreciated. > >Global variable >=========== >Public fBlinkMover As Boolean 'used with OPSES form to indicate whether >to blink >Public dTime 'Used to set time when to fire BlinkMover Procedure > >Procedures >========= >Public Sub OpenSession() > > strFileToOpen = Application.GetOpenFilename("Workbook (*.xls), >*.xls", , "Open your existing AIP session") > > If strFileToOpen <> False Then > >'BLINKING procedure start > >'START Blinking > fBlinkMover = True 'Start BLINKING > OPSES.Show 'Opne OPSES form - this form only has two >images at the moment (imgPic1 and imgPic2 > DoEvents > dTime = Now + TimeValue("00:00:01") 'Set time to one >second from now > Application.OnTime dTime, "BlinkMover" 'Instruct the >application to run "BlinkMover" procedure one second from now > >...Do other work here... > > Workbooks.Open Filename:=strFileToOpen > > Sheets("Original_data").Select > >*Deleted code to make the procedure shorter for this email >*Etc, etc, etc... > >'STOP Blinking > fBlinkMover = False 'Stop BLINKING - this will also stop >BlinkMover procedure calling itself > OPSES.Hide 'Hide OPSES form > >'BLINKING procedure stop > > Sheets("Results").Select > > MsgBox ("AIP session has now been opened") > > Else > 'User did not open > End If > > >End Sub > > >Public Sub BlinkMover() > If fBlinkMover Then 'Only execute if fBlinkMover is set to TRUE > opses!imgPic1.Visible = Not opses!imgPic2.Visible >'Reverse visiblitiy (Show/Hide) > opses!imgPic2.Visible = Not opses!imgPic1.Visible >'Reverse visiblitiy (Show/Hide) > opses.Repaint > DoEvents > dTime = Now + TimeValue("00:00:01") 'Add another second >to dTime > Application.OnTime dTime, "BlinkMover" 'Call BlinkMover >procedure again in one second > End If >End Sub > > >Thanks for your suggestions. > >John Fejsa >Senior Systems Analyst/Computer Programmer >Hunter Population Health >Locked Bag 10, WALLSEND NSW 2287 >Phone: (02) 4924 6336 Fax: (02) 4924 6209 >john.fejsa at hunter.health.nsw.gov.au >www.hcha.org.au > >The doors we open and close each day decide the lives we live. > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From d.dick at uws.edu.au Mon Aug 23 18:36:40 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:36:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook Message-ID: <001e01c4896a$0adef8a0$4a619a89@DDICK> Hello all What a bugger of a week. My laptop died but the IT guy backed up all my Outlook Mail just before the hard drive finally gave in. Problem is...I used outlook express - Lost the lot So I have lost my totally awesome and excellent personal stash of AccessD Emails that I refer to constantly, built up over 5 years Not to mention all the personal pictures etc of the Wife and family Anyway back to Access. I need to speak with Outlook (The real Outlook not Express) to auto create appointments in Outlook once I put 'em into an access dB that we use here for resource scheduling Any suggestions? Also on a bit of a personal slant - Can y'all send me some Outlook links (Slipstick was one I can remember)Oh yeah - I lost my favourites too. So can y'all send me some of your favourites (offline to d.dick at uws.edu.au) Many thanks Have a great day Darren From mike at welshfam.org Mon Aug 23 20:02:34 2004 From: mike at welshfam.org (Michael Welsh) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:02:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Open a form in datasheet mode from switchboard In-Reply-To: <006a01c488ab$657d4470$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <200408240102.i7O12nQ01899@databaseadvisors.com> Arthur, I alter the code in the menu for the switchboard's HandleButtonClick Function" 'Add Constant the list Const conCmdOpenFormDataSheet = 2 Then under the Select Cases add a new case: Case conCmdOpenFormDataSheet DoCmd.OpenForm strMenuArgument, View:=acFormDS You will have to look for the "strMenuArgument" that is being used in the code. I have forgotten what variable that the original code used. It will be the same as the other cases. Then in the menu table, use 2 for the Command. Mike -----Original Message----- How do I open a form in datasheet mode from the standard switchboard? What I CAN do is write a one-line sub and call it instead: DoCmd.OpenForm "Position_frm_ds", acFormDS This works fine, but it seems pointless to write a one-line sub that executes this. Can I avoid this and somehow pass a parameter to the "Open Form in Edit Mode" option instead? No big deal, really. I just have to write a one-liner, and I already have, but still it seems a bit stupid to do so. TIA, Arthur From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Aug 23 23:30:29 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:30:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access In-Reply-To: <010501c4892c$1b45c4a0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Hi Arthur: It would be very difficult because it depends on the particular font you are using and some do not support the two types of quotes. In addition, it would be difficult to manage the correct replacing of forward and backward quotes. Word handles some of these issues by imbedding the actual font tables in the document. I would try and scan through an actual document that has the appropriate quotes marks, save the numeric values. Then use these quote mark constants, build a class that opens and edit the newly created document's vertical quotes. If it sounds a little too labour intensive some other bright individual from the list may have a better solution. HTH Jim PS I have a class that reads any size of document and of course is not designed for replacing quotes but with a little ingenuity.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 9:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access Is there any way to replace the straight-vertical apostrophes and quotation marks that Access uses with the curly ones that Word uses? I've tried to export a report in Times Roman to Word and they come in vertical. Yet when I type within that document I get the curly variety? Obviously the ANSI codes are different, so a wildcard find-and-replace could do it, if I could figure out how to tell Word to perform that kind of find-and-replace. Does anyone know how to do that in Word? TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From viner at eunet.yu Tue Aug 24 03:21:14 2004 From: viner at eunet.yu (Ervin Brindza) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:21:14 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access References: <010501c4892c$1b45c4a0$6601a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <007201c489b3$55c76a20$0100a8c0@razvoj> I need to replace graphic objects in .doc file with nothing! Anyone? Ervin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: 23 August, 2004 6:13 PM Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access > Is there any way to replace the straight-vertical apostrophes and > quotation marks that Access uses with the curly ones that Word uses? > I've tried to export a report in Times Roman to Word and they come in > vertical. Yet when I type within that document I get the curly variety? > Obviously the ANSI codes are different, so a wildcard find-and-replace > could do it, if I could figure out how to tell Word to perform that kind > of find-and-replace. Does anyone know how to do that in Word? > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 24 05:46:26 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:46:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook Message-ID: Hi Darren You have my every empathy. Some excellent coding and ideas for Outlook is on Martin Green's excellent site - www.fontstuff.com. If you are obliged to use Office, this is a site to bookmark. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: 24 August 2004 00:37 To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook Hello all What a bugger of a week. My laptop died but the IT guy backed up all my Outlook Mail just before the hard drive finally gave in. Problem is...I used outlook express - Lost the lot So I have lost my totally awesome and excellent personal stash of AccessD Emails that I refer to constantly, built up over 5 years Not to mention all the personal pictures etc of the Wife and family Anyway back to Access. I need to speak with Outlook (The real Outlook not Express) to auto create appointments in Outlook once I put 'em into an access dB that we use here for resource scheduling Any suggestions? Also on a bit of a personal slant - Can y'all send me some Outlook links (Slipstick was one I can remember)Oh yeah - I lost my favourites too. So can y'all send me some of your favourites (offline to d.dick at uws.edu.au) Many thanks Have a great day Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From lchristian at massmutual.com Tue Aug 24 06:49:21 2004 From: lchristian at massmutual.com (lchristian) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:49:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ@isimevip01.private.massmutual.com> MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from lchristian at massmutual.com The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 EDT4 ...................................................................... Need help picking up your Secure E-mail? * If the Web address above is highlighted, click on it to open a browser window. You will automatically be taken to the secure e-mail. * If the Web address above is not highlighted, follow these steps: - Open a Web browser window. - Copy and paste the entire Web address into the "location" or "address" bar of the browser. - Press enter. * Still having trouble? - Please send an e-mail to mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Aug 24 07:27:29 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:27:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] DrWatson error in msaccopt.exe Message-ID: <20040824122727.053DB2542BC@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Hi all One of our workstations (W2K Pro and the db is A97) has just caused a DrWatson event 4097 "the application msaccopt.exe generated an application error....". Didn't crash or do anything the user noticed but I'm a bit worried cos one of the two google finds on this was associated with MDb corruption when running A97 on W2K (like me). So I've no idea what caused it, no idea if it's important and, oddly, the machine doesn't even have an msaccopt.exe anywhere (and neither do the W98 machines). Any clues anyone? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Aug 24 07:31:35 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:31:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook Message-ID: <20040824123132.E6CE1255AED@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Hi Darren Bummer about you stuff. When I get in tonight I'll email you a zip of all my Access and Outlook favourites. Never created appointments though. All my work's on A97 but folks keep sayinmg that A2K onwards you can just create a link to an Outlook database. But whether that makes it any easier to create appointments I've no idea. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook Date: 24/08/04 11:49 > > Hi Darren > You have my every empathy. Some excellent coding and ideas for Outlook is on > Martin Green's excellent site - www.fontstuff.com. If you are obliged to use > Office, this is a site to bookmark. All the best > paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: 24 August 2004 00:37 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook > > > > Hello all > What a bugger of a week. My laptop died but the IT guy backed up all my > Outlook Mail just before the hard drive finally gave in. Problem is...I > used outlook express - Lost the lot <sigh> > > So I have lost my totally awesome and excellent personal stash of AccessD > Emails that I refer to constantly, built up over 5 years <bigger sigh> > > Not to mention all the personal pictures etc of the Wife and > family <head in hands in despair> > > Anyway back to Access. I need to speak with Outlook (The real Outlook not > Express) to auto create appointments in Outlook once I put 'em into an > access dB that we use here for resource scheduling > > Any suggestions? > > Also on a bit of a personal slant - Can y'all send me some Outlook links > (Slipstick was one I can remember)Oh yeah - I lost my favourites too. So can > y'all send me some of your favourites (offline to d.dick at uws.edu.au) > > Many thanks > > Have a great day > > Darren > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 24 08:01:52 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:01:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2E7@main2.marlow.com> Sorry to hear about the crash. Hopefully this will help: http://www.marlow.com/AccessDArchive.zip That's my .pst file going back to 2001 (up until a few weeks ago....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 6:37 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook Hello all What a bugger of a week. My laptop died but the IT guy backed up all my Outlook Mail just before the hard drive finally gave in. Problem is...I used outlook express - Lost the lot So I have lost my totally awesome and excellent personal stash of AccessD Emails that I refer to constantly, built up over 5 years Not to mention all the personal pictures etc of the Wife and family Anyway back to Access. I need to speak with Outlook (The real Outlook not Express) to auto create appointments in Outlook once I put 'em into an access dB that we use here for resource scheduling Any suggestions? Also on a bit of a personal slant - Can y'all send me some Outlook links (Slipstick was one I can remember)Oh yeah - I lost my favourites too. So can y'all send me some of your favourites (offline to d.dick at uws.edu.au) Many thanks Have a great day Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rmoore at comtechpst.com Tue Aug 24 08:38:25 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:38:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: In-Reply-To: <1420941992.20040823173254@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001401c489df$a4be8c40$7214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Thanks Gustav! I was beating my head against the wall. Since it seems there was a lapse in mail yesterday, I tried some string manipulation and nested IIFs, but it got ugly quick. So I just created a static table (1-12 with month names) and used the Month function and linked to the lookup table. Probably not the best solution, but time was of the essence. Thanks Again, Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 11:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Hi Ron This is an old bug that may not have been solved yet: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;225956 /gustav > I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the > expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one > of my queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in > Expression'. I am told it was a full blown install of A2K, but > something appears to be missing. > Any ideas? > TIA, as always, > Ron -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mgauk at btconnect.com Tue Aug 24 08:52:47 2004 From: mgauk at btconnect.com (MG) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:52:47 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: In-Reply-To: <001401c489df$a4be8c40$7214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <200408241352.i7ODquQ32713@databaseadvisors.com> Ron, I may have the wrong end of the stick here, but if you want month names then just use the format function, viz. ? format(date,"mmmm") gives August ? format(date,"mmm") gives Aug Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ron Moore Sent: 24 August 2004 14:38 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Thanks Gustav! I was beating my head against the wall. Since it seems there was a lapse in mail yesterday, I tried some string manipulation and nested IIFs, but it got ugly quick. So I just created a static table (1-12 with month names) and used the Month function and linked to the lookup table. Probably not the best solution, but time was of the essence. Thanks Again, Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 11:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Hi Ron This is an old bug that may not have been solved yet: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;225956 /gustav > I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the > expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one > of my queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in > Expression'. I am told it was a full blown install of A2K, but > something appears to be missing. > Any ideas? > TIA, as always, > Ron -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue Aug 24 09:02:50 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:02:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: My curiosity is getting the better of me...has anyone clicked on this link;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: lchristian [mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from lchristian at massmutual.com The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 EDT4 ...................................................................... Need help picking up your Secure E-mail? * If the Web address above is highlighted, click on it to open a browser window. You will automatically be taken to the secure e-mail. * If the Web address above is not highlighted, follow these steps: - Open a Web browser window. - Copy and paste the entire Web address into the "location" or "address" bar of the browser. - Press enter. * Still having trouble? - Please send an e-mail to mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From LChristian at MassMutual.com Tue Aug 24 09:09:44 2004 From: LChristian at MassMutual.com (Christian, Lorraine) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:09:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9DEC@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> Good morning, I would like to develop a very simple database for a small business. To start off I believe I need a customer table and an invoice table. The customer table will have basic customer information and a CustomerID that is an autonumber. The invoice table will have billing information and an InvoiceID that is an autonumber. First question, can you customize autonumbers? For example I want my first customer to have an ID of 0001 and my first invoice to have an ID of 2004. Second question, each record in the invoice table will be for every invoice that is sent out. I am stuck on how to handle late payments. I would like to charge 1.5% for over 30, 60 and 90 days. So for example. I send out a monthly invoice for customer 0001, he/she does not pay on time. I now need to send out a second invoice not only charging the customer for the current month, but also the payment that is overdue (last month). And what happens if the customer still does not pay and payments become 60 or 90 days past due? I am not quite sure how to design this table in order to handle what I am trying to accomplish. Finally, the actual invoice (report) has separate fields for current, 30 days, 60 days, etc. In addition to that I has a finance charge field. Originally I was going to do a simple calculation on the report for the finance charge. But after thinking about that, do you think I should permanently store the finance charge in the invoice table? If anyone would like to share with me any tips and/or a sample database I would really appreciate it. Thanks so much, Lorraine --------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. --------------------------------------------------------- From LChristian at MassMutual.com Tue Aug 24 09:10:45 2004 From: LChristian at MassMutual.com (Christian, Lorraine) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:10:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9DED@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> Hi there - Sorry about this. I keep forgetting that we have a new email system here at work. I sent the actual question again. Hope I did not cause any panic.... Lorraine -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Database for Small Business My curiosity is getting the better of me...has anyone clicked on this link;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: lchristian [mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from lchristian at massmutual.com The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 EDT4 ...................................................................... Need help picking up your Secure E-mail? * If the Web address above is highlighted, click on it to open a browser window. You will automatically be taken to the secure e-mail. * If the Web address above is not highlighted, follow these steps: - Open a Web browser window. - Copy and paste the entire Web address into the "location" or "address" bar of the browser. - Press enter. * Still having trouble? - Please send an e-mail to mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Aug 24 09:11:53 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:11:53 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <11078189.1093356713923.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Not me anyway Message date : Aug 24 2004, 03:09 PM >From : "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Database for Small Business My curiosity is getting the better of me...has anyone clicked on this link;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: lchristian [mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from lchristian at massmutual.com The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 EDT4 ...................................................................... Need help picking up your Secure E-mail? * If the Web address above is highlighted, click on it to open a browser window. You will automatically be taken to the secure e-mail. * If the Web address above is not highlighted, follow these steps: - Open a Web browser window. - Copy and paste the entire Web address into the "location" or "address" bar of the browser. - Press enter. * Still having trouble? - Please send an e-mail to mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Whatever you Wanadoo: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/ This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at: http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Aug 24 09:13:33 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:13:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business References: Message-ID: <000e01c489e4$89efcf00$9111758f@aine> Yeah its an actual post. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 3:02 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Database for Small Business > My curiosity is getting the better of me...has anyone clicked on this link;) > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lchristian [mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business > > > > > MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from > lchristian at massmutual.com > > The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. > Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. > > > > https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ > > The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 > EDT4 > > > ...................................................................... > > Need help picking up your Secure E-mail? > > * If the Web address above is highlighted, click on it to open a > browser window. You will automatically be taken to the secure e-mail. > > * If the Web address above is not highlighted, follow these steps: > - Open a Web browser window. > - Copy and paste the entire Web address into the "location" or > "address" bar of the browser. > - Press enter. > > * Still having trouble? > - Please send an e-mail to mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com > > This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, > privileged > and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to > whom it is > addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person > other than > the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is > strictly > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, > please > notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From GregSmith at starband.net Tue Aug 24 09:18:21 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:18:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Code to Close Temp Module from Gustav In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1554.216.43.21.235.1093357101.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Gustav: Sorry it took so long, but that little code patch you posted on Friday to close the VBE window in AXP/03 worked. I don't have the email you posted here or I would reference it. The only change I had to make was to adapt it to the code in my "autoexecs()" module from the Macro example you wrote. Thanks again..it really helped!! Greg From rmoore at comtechpst.com Tue Aug 24 09:22:17 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:22:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c489e5$c5416590$7214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Gary, I don't know if it's 'standard', but I've always used 'Expression Name: MonthName(Month([anydate]),True)' successfully in the past. First time this didn't work for me. Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 12:42 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: I do not recognise "MonthName" as a standard built in Access function. Perhaps its from some kind of add-in library you use? I would normally obtain a month's name using the Format function with a "mmmm" parameter. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Ron Moore" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: >Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:02:26 -0400 > >To all, > >I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the >expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one of >my queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in >Expression'. I am told it was a full blown install of A2K, but >something appears to be missing. > >Any ideas? >TIA, as always, >Ron >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From LChristian at MassMutual.com Tue Aug 24 09:22:52 2004 From: LChristian at MassMutual.com (Christian, Lorraine) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:22:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9DEE@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> Hi there - Sorry about this. I keep forgetting that we have a new email system here at work. As you can see I sent the actual question again. Hope I did not cause any panic.... Lorraine -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Database for Small Business My curiosity is getting the better of me...has anyone clicked on this link;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: lchristian [mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from lchristian at massmutual.com The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 EDT4 ...................................................................... Need help picking up your Secure E-mail? * If the Web address above is highlighted, click on it to open a browser window. You will automatically be taken to the secure e-mail. * If the Web address above is not highlighted, follow these steps: - Open a Web browser window. - Copy and paste the entire Web address into the "location" or "address" bar of the browser. - Press enter. * Still having trouble? - Please send an e-mail to mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rmoore at comtechpst.com Tue Aug 24 09:25:38 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:25:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: In-Reply-To: <200408241352.i7ODquQ32713@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <001801c489e6$3d1b28d0$7214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Max, not the wrong end of the stick at all. I had simply always done it the other way (the function name was self explanatory) but will be changing to your approach for future work. Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MG Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Ron, I may have the wrong end of the stick here, but if you want month names then just use the format function, viz. ? format(date,"mmmm") gives August ? format(date,"mmm") gives Aug Max Sherman -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ron Moore Sent: 24 August 2004 14:38 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Thanks Gustav! I was beating my head against the wall. Since it seems there was a lapse in mail yesterday, I tried some string manipulation and nested IIFs, but it got ugly quick. So I just created a static table (1-12 with month names) and used the Month function and linked to the lookup table. Probably not the best solution, but time was of the essence. Thanks Again, Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 11:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Hi Ron This is an old bug that may not have been solved yet: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;225956 /gustav > I installed an A2K app at a remote customer site and found that the > expression 'Time Period: MonthName([Period_Start_Date],True)' in one > of my queries raises the error 'Undefined Function MonthName in > Expression'. I am told it was a full blown install of A2K, but > something appears to be missing. > Any ideas? > TIA, as always, > Ron -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From LChristian at MassMutual.com Tue Aug 24 09:26:10 2004 From: LChristian at MassMutual.com (Christian, Lorraine) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:26:10 -0400 Subject: Recall: RE: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9DEF@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> Christian, Lorraine would like to recall the message, "Unsecure RE: [AccessD] Database for Small Business". --------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. --------------------------------------------------------- From lchristian at massmutual.com Tue Aug 24 09:34:01 2004 From: lchristian at massmutual.com (lchristian) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:34:01 -0400 Subject: Recall: RE: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <4-863917-472477-NC52W228@isimevip01.private.massmutual.com> MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from lchristian at massmutual.com The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-863917-472477-NC52W228 The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 10:34:48 EDT4 ...................................................................... Need help picking up your Secure E-mail? * If the Web address above is highlighted, click on it to open a browser window. You will automatically be taken to the secure e-mail. * If the Web address above is not highlighted, follow these steps: - Open a Web browser window. - Copy and paste the entire Web address into the "location" or "address" bar of the browser. - Press enter. * Still having trouble? - Please send an e-mail to mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. From artful at rogers.com Tue Aug 24 10:01:40 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:01:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: In-Reply-To: <001801c489e6$3d1b28d0$7214a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <00e901c489eb$43437230$6601a8c0@rock> Alternatively you might define the function yourself, calling the format() function to shape the data the way you like. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ron Moore Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:26 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] MonthName Function Undefined - What's Missing?: Max, not the wrong end of the stick at all. I had simply always done it the other way (the function name was self explanatory) but will be changing to your approach for future work. Ron From reuben at gfconsultants.com Tue Aug 24 10:19:18 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:19:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook In-Reply-To: <001e01c4896a$0adef8a0$4a619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: This very thing is covered in the September issue of Access-VB-SQL Advisor Document # 14450 Unfortunately, I don't have a login to get the download from the website; I only have the print version. That doesn't help a lot, but maybe someone can get it for you. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 6:37 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Talking to Outlook > > > > Hello all > What a bugger of a week. My laptop died but the IT guy backed up all my > Outlook Mail just before the hard drive finally gave in. Problem is...I > used outlook express - Lost the lot > > So I have lost my totally awesome and excellent personal stash of AccessD > Emails that I refer to constantly, built up over 5 years > > Not to mention all the personal pictures etc of the Wife and > family > > Anyway back to Access. I need to speak with Outlook (The real Outlook not > Express) to auto create appointments in Outlook once I put 'em into an > access dB that we use here for resource scheduling > > Any suggestions? > > Also on a bit of a personal slant - Can y'all send me some Outlook links > (Slipstick was one I can remember)Oh yeah - I lost my favourites > too. So can > y'all send me some of your favourites (offline to d.dick at uws.edu.au) > > Many thanks > > Have a great day > > Darren > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 24 11:10:40 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:10:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2F3@main2.marlow.com> Welcome to the List Lorraine. Oh, the days when a database could remain simple! Okay, to your first question, no, you cannot modify the actual Autonumber field to display '0001'. However, you can take 1, and have it displayed as '0001'. If if the Autonumber field is CustomerID then in the report, display it in a text box with this: =String("0",4-Len("" & [CustomerID])) & [CustomerID] As for setting an Autonumber to 2004, you can do this. There are several methods, probably the easiest is an Append Query: INSERT INTO tblInvoices ([InvoiceID]) VALUES(2003) run that, and you'll have a new record with the ID at 2003. Delete that record (but do not compact the database), and the next Invoice you put in will start at 2004. (Once you have added a record, you can compact the database, and the Autonumber will continue using the next larger number after the current one.) As for the late fee, that would be a calculation, no real reason to store the value in your tables. Instead, have a Payments Received table, and then build a query that lists Invoices Not listed in the Payments received table, along with using the current date compared against a third 'Late Charges' table, to calculate how much the penalties have added up. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Christian, Lorraine Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:10 AM To: Accessd at Databaseadvisors. Com (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Good morning, I would like to develop a very simple database for a small business. To start off I believe I need a customer table and an invoice table. The customer table will have basic customer information and a CustomerID that is an autonumber. The invoice table will have billing information and an InvoiceID that is an autonumber. First question, can you customize autonumbers? For example I want my first customer to have an ID of 0001 and my first invoice to have an ID of 2004. Second question, each record in the invoice table will be for every invoice that is sent out. I am stuck on how to handle late payments. I would like to charge 1.5% for over 30, 60 and 90 days. So for example. I send out a monthly invoice for customer 0001, he/she does not pay on time. I now need to send out a second invoice not only charging the customer for the current month, but also the payment that is overdue (last month). And what happens if the customer still does not pay and payments become 60 or 90 days past due? I am not quite sure how to design this table in order to handle what I am trying to accomplish. Finally, the actual invoice (report) has separate fields for current, 30 days, 60 days, etc. In addition to that I has a finance charge field. Originally I was going to do a simple calculation on the report for the finance charge. But after thinking about that, do you think I should permanently store the finance charge in the invoice table? If anyone would like to share with me any tips and/or a sample database I would really appreciate it. Thanks so much, Lorraine --------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. --------------------------------------------------------- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com Tue Aug 24 11:50:59 2004 From: kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com (KathrynAtGwens) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:50:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place In-Reply-To: <391ph9$69d623@mxip02a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: All is well. For some reason, there were about 1/2 dozen that didn't deconstruct, but I fixed them by hand. They had some unusual things going on that wouldn't be typical, so I'm not going to figure out how to have made them work right. Thanks for the help, Drew. I really appreciate it! -- Kathryn Bassett (at work address) kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com kathryn at bassett.net (home) > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn > Bassett > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:42 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > Works but... Got message at work just before I left and followed > your suggestions. It does the update but my results don't look > right on first glance. Didn't have time to see what is going on. > I'm going to try to work on it here at home today or tomorrow to > see if my first glance at results was playing games or now. > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: 17 Aug 2004 12:59 pm > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > Name the module modSplitDeathPlace. Having the module, and > > function, with the same name, is what is kicking up that error. > > > > Also, I just ran the code against the copy I had...change the > > code to this: > > > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As Long) > > As String Dim strArray() As String strArray = Split(strPlace, > > ",") If intPos > UBound(strArray) Then > > SplitDeathPlace = "" > > Else > > SplitDeathPlace = Trim(strArray(intPos)) End If End Function > > > > That should handle any issues that pop up. > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > KathrynAtGwens > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:01 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > > > I'm doing something wrong. > > I clicked on Modules and then on New. I pasted in the > > Function code. Named the module SplitDeathPlace. Compiled it. > > Saved it. First indication something not right is that when > > I'm back at Modules, the SplitDeathPlace doesn't show up. But > > when I click on new again, it is there. > > http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessmodulesplitdeathplace.jpg > > > > Thinking that there is a reason it's not showing, I go on to > > next step and make an (update) query. > > http://www.babcockancestry.com/storage/accessquerysplitdeathplace.jpg > > When I try to run it, I get: > > Undefined function 'SplitDeathPlace' in expression > > > > Does not showing on the main screen right panel when clicking > > on modules on main screen left panel have anything to do with this? > > > > This is the first module I've made, so maybe how I did it was wrong? > > > > -- > > Kathryn Bassett (at work address) > > kathrynatgwens at socal.rr.com > > kathryn at bassett.net (home) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:04 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > > > > > > Then put this in a module: > > > > > > Function SplitDeathPlace(strPlace As String, intPos As > > Long) AS String > > > Dim strArray() As String strArray=Split(strPlace,", ") > > > SplitDeathPlace=strArray(intPos) > > > End Function > > > > > > And in your query, put the following for DeathCity: > > > > > > SplitDeathPlace([DeathPlace],0) > > > > > > Replace the 0 with 1 for deathcounty, and 2 for deathstate > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kathryn > > > Bassett > > > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:57 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > > > > > > Yes > > > > > > -- > > > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my > > bag" "GH is > > > my soap" > > > kathryn at bassett.net > > > http://bassett.net > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > > > Sent: 16 Aug 2004 1:32 pm > > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] update qry to deconstructe place > > > > > > > > I forgot, are you using Access 2000? > > > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Tue Aug 24 12:01:12 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:01:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] [OT - Slightly] Training sceduling In-Reply-To: <412A517F.3020908@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <000601c489fb$f57998c0$120d6bd5@netboxxp> Hi folks A colleague of mine is looking for some software (preferably Access based) that will allow him to schedule training courses. There are about 300 odd courses which all have related documentaion, possible trainers, venues, attendees etc. He is looking to manage all aspects of the training courses from one place. I am trying to steer clear as I'm too busy to be of any use, but if anyone knows of something "off the shelf" I'd be greatful for a recommend. I suggested they learned how to use Outlook properly but that seemed to cause a few frowns for some reason... Any help much appreciated Cheers Mark --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 22/07/2004 From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Tue Aug 24 13:18:49 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:18:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ALTER TABLE in Access Message-ID: <005b01c48a06$cea0d460$2201a8c0@PASCAL> I have a table in Access where I want to increase field sizes of text fields. Here is my SQL: ALTER TABLE MyTable ALTER COLUMN Field1 Text(255) I want to do multiple fields but can't figure out the syntax to do it all in one ALTER TABLE statement, so I have to run multiple commands like this: ALTER TABLE MyTable ALTER COLUMN Field1 Text(255) ALTER TABLE MyTable ALTER COLUMN Field2 Text(255) etc.. Is there any way to do this under one ALTER TABLE statement? It's not a big deal, but I'd like to get this into one statement. TIA Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com From my.lists at verizon.net Tue Aug 24 13:23:45 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:23:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412B87B1.203@verizon.net> Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) wrote On 8/24/2004 7:02 AM: >My curiosity is getting the better of me...has anyone clicked on this link;) > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: lchristian [mailto:lchristian at massmutual.com] >Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business > > > > >MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from >lchristian at massmutual.com > >The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. >Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. > > > >https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ > >The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 >EDT4 > > > > have not, and haven't intended to, why anyone would send a secure message to a list is beyond me, especially w/ so many phishing scams going around. -- -Francisco From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 24 13:26:27 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:26:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ALTER TABLE in Access In-Reply-To: <005b01c48a06$cea0d460$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Message-ID: <20040824182626.CUHV1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Mark, I've never tried and never seen the syntax for doing so. I would try: ALTER TABLE MyTable ALTER COLUMN Field1 Text(255) , Field2 Text(xxx), Field3 Text(xxx)... Just a total guess though. Susan H. I have a table in Access where I want to increase field sizes of text fields. Here is my SQL: From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Tue Aug 24 13:53:41 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:53:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ALTER TABLE in Access References: <20040824182626.CUHV1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000801c48a0b$ae5cb0c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> I've tried that and various versions with and without commas, etc. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] ALTER TABLE in Access > Mark, I've never tried and never seen the syntax for doing so. > > I would try: > > ALTER TABLE MyTable ALTER COLUMN Field1 Text(255) , Field2 Text(xxx), Field3 > Text(xxx)... > > Just a total guess though. > > Susan H. > > I have a table in Access where I want to increase field sizes of text > fields. Here is my SQL: > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From LChristian at MassMutual.com Tue Aug 24 13:53:43 2004 From: LChristian at MassMutual.com (Christian, Lorraine) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:53:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business Message-ID: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9E00@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> Yes I definitely understand. I forgot that our email system changed. I was able to send one unsecure, I hope everyone can see that one. I hope I get some help :) -----Original Message----- From: ime_mailer.4-868094-474642-T4LIIXHL at isimevip01.private.massmutual.com [mailto:ime_mailer.4-868094-474642-T4LIIXHL at isimevip01.private.massmutua l.com]On Behalf Of accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:29 PM To: Christian, Lorraine Subject: Re: Database for Small Business Lorraine, you will probably get a better response if you "DONT" post a secure message that requires users to log into a 3rd party website. w/ so many phishing scams out there, I'm sure you can understand this position. "lchristian" wrote: > Message Redirected by Tumbleweed MMS. > > Original Recipients: > To: "Accessd at Databaseadvisors. Com (E-mail)" accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Cc: > > Good morning, > > I would like to develop a very simple database for a small business. > To start off I believe I need a customer table and an invoice table. > > The customer table will have basic customer information and > a CustomerID that is an autonumber. > > The invoice table will have billing information and an InvoiceID > that is an autonumber. > > First question, can you customize autonumbers? For > example I want my first customer to have an ID of 0001 > and my first invoice to have an ID of 2004. > > Second question, each record in the invoice table will be > for every invoice that is sent out. I am stuck on how to > handle late payments. I would like to charge 1.5% for > over 30, 60 and 90 days. > > So for example. I send out a monthly invoice for customer 0001, > he/she does not pay on time. I now need to send out a > second invoice not only charging the customer for the current > month, but also the payment that is overdue (last month). And what > happens if the customer still does not pay and payments become 60 or > 90 days past due? I am not quite sure how to design this table in order to handle > what I am trying to accomplish. > > Finally, the actual invoice (report) has separate fields for current, 30 days, 60 days, etc. In > addition to that I has a finance charge field. Originally I was going to do a simple > calculation on the report for the finance charge. But after thinking about that, do you > think I should permanently store the finance charge in the invoice table? > > If anyone would like to share with me any tips and/or a sample database I would > really appreciate it. > > Thanks so much, > > Lorraine > > --------------------------------------------------------- > This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. > > --------------------------------------------------------- > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Aug 24 14:18:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:18:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB2F5@main2.marlow.com> I replied to it, but haven't seen my post hit yet. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Christian, Lorraine Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business Yes I definitely understand. I forgot that our email system changed. I was able to send one unsecure, I hope everyone can see that one. I hope I get some help :) -----Original Message----- From: ime_mailer.4-868094-474642-T4LIIXHL at isimevip01.private.massmutual.com [mailto:ime_mailer.4-868094-474642-T4LIIXHL at isimevip01.private.massmutua l.com]On Behalf Of accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:29 PM To: Christian, Lorraine Subject: Re: Database for Small Business Lorraine, you will probably get a better response if you "DONT" post a secure message that requires users to log into a 3rd party website. w/ so many phishing scams out there, I'm sure you can understand this position. "lchristian" wrote: > Message Redirected by Tumbleweed MMS. > > Original Recipients: > To: "Accessd at Databaseadvisors. Com (E-mail)" accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Cc: > > Good morning, > > I would like to develop a very simple database for a small business. > To start off I believe I need a customer table and an invoice table. > > The customer table will have basic customer information and > a CustomerID that is an autonumber. > > The invoice table will have billing information and an InvoiceID > that is an autonumber. > > First question, can you customize autonumbers? For > example I want my first customer to have an ID of 0001 > and my first invoice to have an ID of 2004. > > Second question, each record in the invoice table will be > for every invoice that is sent out. I am stuck on how to > handle late payments. I would like to charge 1.5% for > over 30, 60 and 90 days. > > So for example. I send out a monthly invoice for customer 0001, > he/she does not pay on time. I now need to send out a > second invoice not only charging the customer for the current > month, but also the payment that is overdue (last month). And what > happens if the customer still does not pay and payments become 60 or > 90 days past due? I am not quite sure how to design this table in order to handle > what I am trying to accomplish. > > Finally, the actual invoice (report) has separate fields for current, 30 days, 60 days, etc. In > addition to that I has a finance charge field. Originally I was going to do a simple > calculation on the report for the finance charge. But after thinking about that, do you > think I should permanently store the finance charge in the invoice table? > > If anyone would like to share with me any tips and/or a sample database I would > really appreciate it. > > Thanks so much, > > Lorraine > > --------------------------------------------------------- > This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. > > --------------------------------------------------------- > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 24 15:30:59 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:30:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business In-Reply-To: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9E00@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> References: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9E00@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> Message-ID: Read inline... On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:53:43 -0400, Christian, Lorraine wrote: > > Good morning, > > > > I would like to develop a very simple database for a small business. > > To start off I believe I need a customer table and an invoice table. > > > > The customer table will have basic customer information and > > a CustomerID that is an autonumber. > > > > The invoice table will have billing information and an InvoiceID > > that is an autonumber. > > > > First question, can you customize autonumbers? For > > example I want my first customer to have an ID of 0001 > > and my first invoice to have an ID of 2004. yes you can customize it to be 0001 as display, Of the top of my head you should be able to just insert via an insert query an empty record where the PID (invoiceid) is 2003. so the next first real record will be 2004 but for all general purposes, you'll need to remember that Autonumbers follows the "surrogate key" rule, and therefore is meaningless, and you will have a difficult time keeping this number in sequence such as 0001,0002,0003 etc., instead it may be more reflective of: 0001,0003,0004,0006, 0007,0009 etc... that's because order number 0002 could have been canceledlike order 0005 and 0008. > > Second question, each record in the invoice table will be > > for every invoice that is sent out. I am stuck on how to > > handle late payments. I would like to charge 1.5% for > > over 30, 60 and 90 days. If you add a calculation field into your query you can get this number, that means that the value of this field will always change since it is dynamic. One option is to calculate the date from the invoice due date w/ the current date. which gives you the total number of days, then you can multiply your 1.5% times the remaining balance. A DateDiff Function seems the most appropriate for this task. such as iif(datediff("d","5/1/2004","8/24/2004",vbSunday,vbUseSystem)>30, , ) > > So for example. I send out a monthly invoice for customer 0001, > > he/she does not pay on time. I now need to send out a > > second invoice not only charging the customer for the current > > month, but also the payment that is overdue (last month). And what > > happens if the customer still does not pay and payments become 60 or > > 90 days past due? I am not quite sure how to design this table in > order to handle > > what I am trying to accomplish. Seems to me you'd want to work this out in a query with similar functions as outlined above. Additionally, I'm not one to step on your toes, but this kind of accounting can genarlly be handled by other programs like Quicken / Quickbooks etc. Is that not a viable option? > > Finally, the actual invoice (report) has separate fields for current, > 30 days, 60 days, etc. In > > addition to that I has a finance charge field. Originally I was going > to do a simple > > calculation on the report for the finance charge. But after thinking > about that, do you > > think I should permanently store the finance charge in the invoice > table? The finance charge for each cycle should be stored, but the calculation on the incurred cost need to be calculated on each run. (i would think, ymmv) Good luck. -- -Francisco From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 24 15:34:29 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:34:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed Message-ID: <02b601c48a19$c1743350$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the vowels. I fooled around with the different keyboards in the Regional Settings with no success. I'd like to keep my machine set to English. Is there a (relatively) simple solution? A tutorial someone can point me to? (Help has not been.) MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Tue Aug 24 16:37:33 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:37:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business Message-ID: OK. I'll bite. You can seed your starting numbers for autonumber fields. The most recommended way is to populate the table with one record via a append query that sets the value of the autonumber table with one less than you want for your first number. then you delete that record and the next record added to teh table will have the number you want..... BUT I think most developers here on list will agree that if you are particular about the numbers assigned, autonumbers are NOT the way to go. You need to create some code to determine what the last number on your system is at the time the new record is being formatted and then use that value for your field. Why? Autonumbers will often leave GAPS - if you start to add a record but then abort the process for whatever reason, the autonumber will still increment and a number will essentially be wasted. For non-visible key values this is no big deal at all. But for an invoice number, it may be a problem for you and your application as it will need to be explained to the accountants and auditors. Generally all an autonumber is supposed to get you is a UNIQUE value. yes, they are normally in a sequence but that is not guaranteed. If you want a sequential number you need to take control of the assignment of those numbers. Having the KEY to the invoice record be an autonumber is a good thing but you might be better off calculating an invoice number that will be displayed for the user yourself. Regarding your question about the additional charges for past due.....Why not add another invoice record? You could have a field that associates an invoice record with another invoice and then group and total by that at statement time? Or perhaps you need a different table for past due charges? It all depends on what you are planning to do with the data. Will there be additional charges if the invoice isn't paid for a second cycle????? Or is it a one time upcharge? If it's a one time deal you could just have an additional field on your invoice table for that charge. It's really up to you. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Christian, Lorraine" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business >Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:53:43 -0400 > >Yes I definitely understand. I forgot that our email system >changed. I was able to send one unsecure, I hope everyone can >see that one. I hope I get some help :) > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: >ime_mailer.4-868094-474642-T4LIIXHL at isimevip01.private.massmutual.com >[mailto:ime_mailer.4-868094-474642-T4LIIXHL at isimevip01.private.massmutua >l.com]On Behalf Of accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:29 PM >To: Christian, Lorraine >Subject: Re: Database for Small Business > > > Lorraine, you will probably get a better response if you "DONT" post a >secure message that requires users to log into a 3rd party website. w/ >so many phishing scams out there, I'm sure you can understand this >position. > >"lchristian" wrote: > > Message Redirected by Tumbleweed MMS. > > > > Original Recipients: > > To: "Accessd at Databaseadvisors. Com (E-mail)" >accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Cc: > > > > Good morning, > > > > I would like to develop a very simple database for a small business. > > To start off I believe I need a customer table and an invoice table. > > > > The customer table will have basic customer information and > > a CustomerID that is an autonumber. > > > > The invoice table will have billing information and an InvoiceID > > that is an autonumber. > > > > First question, can you customize autonumbers? For > > example I want my first customer to have an ID of 0001 > > and my first invoice to have an ID of 2004. > > > > Second question, each record in the invoice table will be > > for every invoice that is sent out. I am stuck on how to > > handle late payments. I would like to charge 1.5% for > > over 30, 60 and 90 days. > > > > So for example. I send out a monthly invoice for customer 0001, > > he/she does not pay on time. I now need to send out a > > second invoice not only charging the customer for the current > > month, but also the payment that is overdue (last month). And what > > happens if the customer still does not pay and payments become 60 or > > 90 days past due? I am not quite sure how to design this table in >order to handle > > what I am trying to accomplish. > > > > Finally, the actual invoice (report) has separate fields for current, >30 days, 60 days, etc. In > > addition to that I has a finance charge field. Originally I was going >to do a simple > > calculation on the report for the finance charge. But after thinking >about that, do you > > think I should permanently store the finance charge in the invoice >table? > > > > If anyone would like to share with me any tips and/or a sample >database I would > > really appreciate it. > > > > Thanks so much, > > > > Lorraine > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Aug 24 16:42:19 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:42:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed In-Reply-To: <02b601c48a19$c1743350$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a > terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the > vowels. Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut and paste. >From the Word Help: To insert Press ?, ?, ?, ?, ? ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter ?, ?, ?, ?, ? ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter ?, ?, ? ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O ?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D ?, ? CTRL+/, o or O ? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? ? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! -- Stuart From vze28ztx at verizon.net Tue Aug 24 16:58:38 2004 From: vze28ztx at verizon.net (Mary Davis) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:58:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Apostrophes & Quotations, replacing in Word References: <200408241520.i7OFK6Q15581@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <412BBA0E.5040003@verizon.net> May I take a stab at this? Unless I'm missing something, this might be rather easy. In Word, under "Edit", "Replace", you can select "Special" (at the bottom of the dialogue box), and there you can select "Graphic". This may depend on the version you're using. I've got XP here. I think this will select *all* graphics. I don't know that you could specify only some graphics in a doc. > > > > I need to replace graphic objects in .doc file with nothing! Anyone? > Ervin From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 24 16:56:30 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:56:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed References: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Stuart: Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the mdb where I have to key all this Spanish. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > > > I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a > > terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the > > vowels. > > Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut and > paste. > > >From the Word Help: > To insert Press > ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter > > ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter > > ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter > > ?, ?, ? > ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter > ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > > ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, Y CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter > > ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A > > ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A > > o, O CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O > > ?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C > > ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D > > ?, ? CTRL+/, o or O > > ? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? > > ? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! > -- > Stuart > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Aug 24 17:31:41 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:31:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed In-Reply-To: <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <412C4E6D.21138.376D1A2@lexacorp.com.pg> On 24 Aug 2004 at 14:56, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access S wrote: > > Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when > keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the mdb > where I have to key all this Spanish. > That's why I suggested creating the text Word and copy/pasting into Access. The onl;y alternative I know of is using Alt+xxxx ie Alt + 0224 = ? etc. You will need to look at CharacterMap to get the codes for the various letters. -- Stuart From rford at terra.com.br Tue Aug 24 20:53:02 2004 From: rford at terra.com.br (Roberto Ford Long) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:53:02 -0300 Subject: RES: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed In-Reply-To: <02b601c48a19$c1743350$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <000001c48a46$429bff40$01c8a8c0@rflserver> Rocky, add a second keyboard map (or change your current to), U.S. International. You don't need to change your regional settings, only the kb layout. With this layout, you can press ~ and a = ?. For ? ? and c. HTH Ford -----Mensagem original----- De: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Em nome de Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Enviada em: ter?a-feira, 24 de agosto de 2004 17:34 Para: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Assunto: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed Dear List: I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the vowels. I fooled around with the different keyboards in the Regional Settings with no success. I'd like to keep my machine set to English. Is there a (relatively) simple solution? A tutorial someone can point me to? (Help has not been.) MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 24 22:05:34 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:05:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - Need Outlook Guru Message-ID: <007801c48a50$63764a90$4a619a89@DDICK> Hi all Need Outlook guru assistance I have managed to create an Outlook Calendar appointment from access - excellent, and I am capturing the calendar item's Unique ID called EntryID Now does anyone know how I can delete the same calendar item using the EntryID The code below NEARLY works, but it dies on the line about finding a rec Based on the EntryID I have scoured the net for examples to delete calendar items and just can't find any. Another 2 days wasted Many thanks in advance Darren """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Function somenewfunction() Dim ol As Outlook.Application Dim olns As Outlook.NameSpace Dim objFolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder Dim AllAppts As Outlook.Items Dim myAppt As Outlook.AppointmentItem Set ol = New Outlook.Application Set olns = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI") Set objFolder = olns.GetDefaultFolder(olFolderCalendar) Set AllAppts = objFolder.Items Set myAppt = AllAppts.Find("[EntryID] = _ ""00000000B5860CB6D252A64BB055F39CD7DABCC824332000""") MsgBox myAppt.Subject End Function """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Aug 25 02:07:16 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:07:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed References: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <412C3AA4.408@shaw.ca> Another Method Win XP Control Panel --> Regional Language Settings--> Languages --Details --> Installed services Add the Spanish Keyboard in addition to English. Other button option selections Language -choose to float Keyboard Language Bar on Screen as transparent or in tasktray I prefer floating bar rather cluttering TaskTray icon Key Settings choose a hotkey to switch language keyboard. This will give you a floating keyboard selection bar Defualt To change language keyboards when typing toggle ALT - Right Shift You can also do this by VBA code. I have used to sense Keyboard language state and switch between French or English Text boxes on same form There are probably pictures of spanish keyboard mappings at http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >Stuart: > > >Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when >keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the mdb >where I have to key all this Spanish. > >Rocky > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Stuart McLachlan" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:42 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > > > > >>On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >> >> >> >>>I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a >>>terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the >>>vowels. >>> >>> >>Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut and >>paste. >> >>>From the Word Help: >>To insert Press >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter >> >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter >> >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter >> >>?, ?, ? >>?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? >> >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, Y CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter >> >>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A >> >>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A >> >>o, O CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O >> >>?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C >> >>?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D >> >>?, ? CTRL+/, o or O >> >>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? >> >>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! >>-- >>Stuart >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Wed Aug 25 02:30:17 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:30:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - Need Outlook Guru In-Reply-To: <007801c48a50$63764a90$4a619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <008f01c48a75$5eae8980$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Darren Just thrashing ideas but looking at the Outlook Help they construct it like this: Set myAppt = objFolder.Items.Find("[EntryID] = ""00000000B5860CB6D252A64BB055F39CD7DABCC824332000""") Have you tried that? Of course you have. If you can't get Find working would it be worth trying a For Each loop through the Items collection testing for your EntryId? Long way round but might get you moving. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: 25 August 2004 04:06 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - > Need Outlook Guru > > > Hi all > Need Outlook guru assistance > I have managed to create an Outlook Calendar appointment from > access - excellent, and I am capturing the calendar item's > Unique ID called EntryID > > Now does anyone know how I can delete the same calendar item > using the EntryID The code below NEARLY works, but it dies on > the line about finding a rec > Based on the EntryID > I have scoured the net for examples to delete calendar items > and just can't find any. Another 2 days wasted > > Many thanks in advance > > Darren > > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > """""""""""""" > Function somenewfunction() > > Dim ol As Outlook.Application > Dim olns As Outlook.NameSpace > Dim objFolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder > Dim AllAppts As Outlook.Items > Dim myAppt As Outlook.AppointmentItem > > > Set ol = New Outlook.Application > Set olns = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI") > Set objFolder = olns.GetDefaultFolder(olFolderCalendar) > Set AllAppts = objFolder.Items > Set myAppt = AllAppts.Find("[EntryID] = _ > ""00000000B5860CB6D252A64BB055F39CD7DABCC824332000""") > > MsgBox myAppt.Subject > > End Function > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > """"""""""""" > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Wed Aug 25 02:53:42 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:53:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business Message-ID: Hi Lorraine Very good tutorials at Martin Green's site, www.fontstuff.com And another one I found only yesterday, http://functionx.com/ which looks great too. For a sample database, don't overlook the Access sample, Northwind. I see that fuctionx.com has a sample there too. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: Christian, Lorraine [mailto:LChristian at MassMutual.com] Sent: 24 August 2004 19:54 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] RE: Database for Small Business --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From artful at rogers.com Wed Aug 25 06:35:39 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:35:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business In-Reply-To: <4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ@isimevip01.private.massmutual.com> Message-ID: <013301c48a97$a5e5c490$6601a8c0@rock> It's not criminal (yet) to post such messages to a newsgroup dedicated to a specific topic, but at the very least it IS unethical. I ask you to cease and desist immediately. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of lchristian Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business MassMutual Financial Group has sent you a Secure E-mail Message from lchristian at massmutual.com The e-mail you have received may include confidential information. Please click on the link below to review your secure e-mail message. https://securemail.massmutual.com/ime?x=4-860138-470503-X4KLZ9JZ The secure e-mail will expire on Saturday October 23, 2004 at 07:50:06 EDT4 From LChristian at MassMutual.com Wed Aug 25 06:35:36 2004 From: LChristian at MassMutual.com (Christian, Lorraine) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:35:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database for Small Business Message-ID: <5B898D9F0627974EB82D0645E52B1E7D050E9E0C@EXMBPR03.na.mmfg.net> Well it looks like I have my work cut out for me! Many thanks to Drew, Paul, Gary and Francisco for your help and suggestions. I will be getting to work soon and I am sure that you will be hearing from me! :) Thanks again. Lorraine --------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. --------------------------------------------------------- From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 25 08:14:11 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:14:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Aug 25 09:12:27 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Message-ID: <000c01c48aad$8da124e0$de1811d8@danwaters> Hello to All! I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE would also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the BE to auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application and then closed. With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this code to compact the BE when the FE is closed by the last person. Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close option to true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be asked to enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their FE. You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit button is the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) When you push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before using the DoCmd.Quit method. I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will work for everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems, Inc. PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. '-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public Sub CompactBE() On Error GoTo EH Dim stgPath As String Dim blnExclusive As Boolean Dim appAccess As Access.Application Dim varReturn As Variant If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then Exit Sub End If stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting blnExclusive = True Set appAccess = New Access.Application varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens quickly! appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase appAccess.Quit varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) Exit Sub EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", "CompactBE") End Sub Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer On Error GoTo EH Dim con As New ADODB.Connection Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset Dim stgAccessVersion As String Dim intUserCount As Integer Dim stgUserName As String stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema rowset _ in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets Select Case stgAccessVersion Case "9.0" '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access 2000 con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" Case "10.0" '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access 2002 or 2003 Set con = CurrentProject.Connection Case "11.0" '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access 2002 or 2003 Set con = CurrentProject.Connection End Select Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , "{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") If rst.EOF = False Then Do While rst.EOF = False stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, rst.Fields(1), Chr(0)) - 1) If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 End If rst.MoveNext Loop CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount Else CountCurrentUsers = 0 End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing Exit Function EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current Users", "CountCurrentUsers") End Function From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Aug 25 09:12:27 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material In-Reply-To: <29899731.1093439997823.JavaMail.root@sniper7.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000d01c48aad$8de5cf00$de1811d8@danwaters> Mark, MS has a something called the Office XP Web Component Toolpack. The help files are pretty good. You can do some Very sophisticated graphing with this tool, including drill-downs. You can also set up a chart with your system's data, and let users customize the chart to their heart's content. But, there is a significant learning curve, both for the developer and the user. Best of Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Wed Aug 25 09:41:34 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:41:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E24D@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Mark, We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) of inspectors. The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. lugs). All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is done to determine the POD. When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the "FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't needed. Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is placed in the text box of the report. The formula is: =Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))*([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) For our purposes this works. My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've earned it. Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many queries) has taken several minutes to finish. HTH Best of luck. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Aug 25 10:00:19 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:00:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material In-Reply-To: <29899731.1093439997823.JavaMail.root@sniper7.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000e01c48ab4$3d395390$de1811d8@danwaters> Mark, Another path you might consider is to use Excel with Automation. Excel has a world of statistical functions available. I would start by creating what you want in Excel using the worksheet functions. Then automate Excel from Access and place the functions you want in the spreadsheet using code. Then you can retrieve the value(s) you want from that spreadsheet, then close Excel. This lets Excel do the calculation work instead of trying to do it in Access. When you open Excel from Access, it will not be visible on screen (unless you specify that it be visible). So the user doesn't see any extraneous screen activity. Hope this helps, Dan Waters ProMation Systems, Inc. PS - you can use MS Graph in Access reports in addition to Office Web Components. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 25 10:17:40 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:17:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: Jim, Well thank you for pointing out my obvious limitations;) I have a sneaking suspicion that a mathematician may indeed be needed before this is all said and done. I will have to keep that in mind so that I can bring in assistance sooner rather than later. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) of inspectors. The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. lugs). All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is done to determine the POD. When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the "FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't needed. Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is placed in the text box of the report. The formula is: =Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]* [R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-([ C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N])) *([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) For our purposes this works. My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've earned it. Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many queries) has taken several minutes to finish. HTH Best of luck. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 25 10:19:02 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:19:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: Thanks Dan, that is a consideration... Mark -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:00 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, Another path you might consider is to use Excel with Automation. Excel has a world of statistical functions available. I would start by creating what you want in Excel using the worksheet functions. Then automate Excel from Access and place the functions you want in the spreadsheet using code. Then you can retrieve the value(s) you want from that spreadsheet, then close Excel. This lets Excel do the calculation work instead of trying to do it in Access. When you open Excel from Access, it will not be visible on screen (unless you specify that it be visible). So the user doesn't see any extraneous screen activity. Hope this helps, Dan Waters ProMation Systems, Inc. PS - you can use MS Graph in Access reports in addition to Office Web Components. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 10:23:10 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:23:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ALTER TABLE in Access In-Reply-To: <000801c48a0b$ae5cb0c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> References: <20040824182626.CUHV1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> <000801c48a0b$ae5cb0c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:53:41 -0500, Mark Whittinghill wrote: > I've tried that and various versions with and without commas, etc. > Mark, According to Harkins' and Reid's SQL:Access to Sql Server; page 209, you could just use the change data type to do this: ALTER TABLE tblCustomers ALTER COLUMN contacts TEXT(25) According to the book it changes the original data type to the new datatype, in this case a larger field size. hope this helps. You can also run the above command via ADO, have you tried doing it that way? -- -Francisco From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed Aug 25 13:09:03 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:09:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE93@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> You might take a look here Jim Hale http://www.johngalt.com/oem_addin.shtml -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Jim, Well thank you for pointing out my obvious limitations;) I have a sneaking suspicion that a mathematician may indeed be needed before this is all said and done. I will have to keep that in mind so that I can bring in assistance sooner rather than later. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) of inspectors. The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. lugs). All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is done to determine the POD. When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the "FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't needed. Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is placed in the text box of the report. The formula is: =Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]* [R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-([ C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N])) *([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) For our purposes this works. My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've earned it. Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many queries) has taken several minutes to finish. HTH Best of luck. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 13:26:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:26:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. From fhtapia at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 13:37:25 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:37:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:26:59 -0700, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of > VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that > rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, > it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! > are you going dotNET 2003? and will you be looking at Reporting Services for your reporting needs? just wondering... btw, I like the development gui tools too. -- -Francisco From JColby at dispec.com Wed Aug 25 13:42:29 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:42:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDD1@DISABILITYINS01> ROTFL. Can I go to work for you guys? JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Aug 25 14:13:25 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:13:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089AC2@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> >>if you're already very familiar with classes<< Key words there Charlotte. Familiarity with OOP will be a big plus if/when moving to the .NET world. Are you porting to ASP.NET or VB (or C# to be really cool!!)? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Wed Aug 25 14:45:06 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:45:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630500326A4@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> I am trying to call a function which opens a new (popup) form. My problem is that I need to halt execution of the original code until the new form is closed. I know that I have done something like this before, but I cannot remember how? Any help is greatly appreciated Jeff B From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 14:47:15 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:47:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call Message-ID: Open the popup as a dialog. That will halt the calling code until the popup is closed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Barrows [mailto:Jeff at outbaktech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call I am trying to call a function which opens a new (popup) form. My problem is that I need to halt execution of the original code until the new form is closed. I know that I have done something like this before, but I cannot remember how? Any help is greatly appreciated Jeff B From kevinb at bepc.com Wed Aug 25 14:58:21 2004 From: kevinb at bepc.com (Kevin Bachmeier) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:58:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: <5C210A2F04B76B4AB2A18E6FEB817134068DCA@HDQ06.bepc.net> Charlotte - when you've completed the training, please let us know what medium (classroom/book/web) you went through, and your opinion of that training. TIA Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lists at theopg.com Wed Aug 25 15:00:34 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:00:34 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630500326A4@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <000501c48ade$2ee021f0$120d6bd5@netboxxp> docmd.OpenForm "yourFormName",,,,,acDialog Hth mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: 25 August 2004 20:45 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call I am trying to call a function which opens a new (popup) form. My problem is that I need to halt execution of the original code until the new form is closed. I know that I have done something like this before, but I cannot remember how? Any help is greatly appreciated Jeff B --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 22/07/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 22/07/2004 From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 15:07:48 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:07:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: We're using the AppDev courses on DVD, and so far they are excellent. I could wish that Andy Barron grinned less, and all of them seem to smile more than is appropriate to the material, but the training itself is very good. As far as completing it, there are a huge number of VB.Net modules, so it may be a while. Then I get to start ADO.Net and ASP.Net! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Bachmeier [mailto:kevinb at bepc.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Charlotte - when you've completed the training, please let us know what medium (classroom/book/web) you went through, and your opinion of that training. TIA Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Wed Aug 25 15:12:54 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:12:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630500326A5@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Thanks a lot!!! That seems to have done the trick! -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wed 8/25/2004 2:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call Open the popup as a dialog. That will halt the calling code until the popup is closed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Barrows [mailto:Jeff at outbaktech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Problem with code execution during a function call I am trying to call a function which opens a new (popup) form. My problem is that I need to halt execution of the original code until the new form is closed. I know that I have done something like this before, but I cannot remember how? Any help is greatly appreciated Jeff B -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at karta.com Wed Aug 25 15:14:41 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:14:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E25C@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Mark, I didn't mean to insinuate any limitation of your skill set. Rather, it's better to have two sets of eyes on the prize...;) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Jim, Well thank you for pointing out my obvious limitations;) I have a sneaking suspicion that a mathematician may indeed be needed before this is all said and done. I will have to keep that in mind so that I can bring in assistance sooner rather than later. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) of inspectors. The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. lugs). All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is done to determine the POD. When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the "FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't needed. Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is placed in the text box of the report. The formula is: =Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]* [R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-([ C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N])) *([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) For our purposes this works. My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've earned it. Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many queries) has taken several minutes to finish. HTH Best of luck. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Wed Aug 25 15:16:48 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:16:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE630500326A6@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> You could always try a BootCamp! I do not recommend them unless you can completely give up two weeks of your life - No Work, No Family, No Life (except for studying). Having said that, if you can do the above, a BootCamp is not that bad way to go. LOTS of information, little time. I actually walked away from the last MCSD .NET exam and wrote a small app! -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wed 8/25/2004 3:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net We're using the AppDev courses on DVD, and so far they are excellent. I could wish that Andy Barron grinned less, and all of them seem to smile more than is appropriate to the material, but the training itself is very good. As far as completing it, there are a huge number of VB.Net modules, so it may be a while. Then I get to start ADO.Net and ASP.Net! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Bachmeier [mailto:kevinb at bepc.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Charlotte - when you've completed the training, please let us know what medium (classroom/book/web) you went through, and your opinion of that training. TIA Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Aug 25 15:30:42 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:30:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: Jim, I wasn't offended by any means...honestly. It was all in jest to remind myself that I can't ALWAYS do it all myself. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, I didn't mean to insinuate any limitation of your skill set. Rather, it's better to have two sets of eyes on the prize...;) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Jim, Well thank you for pointing out my obvious limitations;) I have a sneaking suspicion that a mathematician may indeed be needed before this is all said and done. I will have to keep that in mind so that I can bring in assistance sooner rather than later. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) of inspectors. The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. lugs). All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is done to determine the POD. When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the "FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't needed. Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is placed in the text box of the report. The formula is: =Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]* [R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-([ C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N])) *([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) For our purposes this works. My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've earned it. Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many queries) has taken several minutes to finish. HTH Best of luck. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From susanj at sgmeet.com Wed Aug 25 15:47:24 2004 From: susanj at sgmeet.com (Susan Jones) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:47:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ASP Programming Project Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040825152412.03d1ad68@192.168.3.99> We are considering outsourcing a project that uses ASP to capture information online into a SQL database. If this is something you do and would be interested in pursuing further, please contact me off-list. Thanks so much! Susan Susan Jones The Schneider Group 5400 Bosque Blvd., Suite 680 Waco, TX 76710-4446 254-776-3550 254-776-3767 fax From JHewson at karta.com Wed Aug 25 15:48:42 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:48:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E261@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Hey! I resemble that remark: "I can't ALWAYS do it all..." -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Jim, I wasn't offended by any means...honestly. It was all in jest to remind myself that I can't ALWAYS do it all myself. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, I didn't mean to insinuate any limitation of your skill set. Rather, it's better to have two sets of eyes on the prize...;) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:18 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Jim, Well thank you for pointing out my obvious limitations;) I have a sneaking suspicion that a mathematician may indeed be needed before this is all said and done. I will have to keep that in mind so that I can bring in assistance sooner rather than later. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material Mark, We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) of inspectors. The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. lugs). All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is done to determine the POD. When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the "FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't needed. Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is placed in the text box of the report. The formula is: =Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]* [R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-([ C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N])) *([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) For our purposes this works. My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've earned it. Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many queries) has taken several minutes to finish. HTH Best of luck. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM To: [AccessD] Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Group, Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and graphing? Mark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us Wed Aug 25 15:55:40 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:55:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access Message-ID: Arthur in word 2000K there is an option under autocorrect to change word from straight quotes to smart quotes The ascii difference is straight quote = 39, I have the number for the curly quote but can't find it right this minute. It is on a slip of paper on the black hole I call a desk. I am pretty sure I figured it out by copying it from some other document into the function asc Patti ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Arthur Fuller > Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 12:13 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access > > Is there any way to replace the straight-vertical apostrophes > and quotation marks that Access uses with the curly ones that > Word uses? > I've tried to export a report in Times Roman to Word and they > come in vertical. Yet when I type within that document I get > the curly variety? > Obviously the ANSI codes are different, so a wildcard > find-and-replace could do it, if I could figure out how to > tell Word to perform that kind of find-and-replace. Does > anyone know how to do that in Word? > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 16:30:22 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:30:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: My cats would object, I'm afraid. We licensed the AppDev modules, so any of us can log onto the training machine and work at our own speed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Barrows [mailto:Jeff at outbaktech.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net You could always try a BootCamp! I do not recommend them unless you can completely give up two weeks of your life - No Work, No Family, No Life (except for studying). Having said that, if you can do the above, a BootCamp is not that bad way to go. LOTS of information, little time. I actually walked away from the last MCSD .NET exam and wrote a small app! -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wed 8/25/2004 3:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net We're using the AppDev courses on DVD, and so far they are excellent. I could wish that Andy Barron grinned less, and all of them seem to smile more than is appropriate to the material, but the training itself is very good. As far as completing it, there are a huge number of VB.Net modules, so it may be a while. Then I get to start ADO.Net and ASP.Net! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Bachmeier [mailto:kevinb at bepc.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Charlotte - when you've completed the training, please let us know what medium (classroom/book/web) you went through, and your opinion of that training. TIA Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 16:53:17 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:53:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:30:22 -0700, Charlotte Foust wrote: > My cats would object, I'm afraid. We licensed the AppDev modules, so > any of us can log onto the training machine and work at our own speed. How many cats is that? -- -Francisco From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 17:17:13 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:17:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: Which, the ones that log onto the training machine?? There are 4 developers at work and by a coincidence, I have 4 cats at home. I do NOT allow them to play with the computer! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:30:22 -0700, Charlotte Foust wrote: > My cats would object, I'm afraid. We licensed the AppDev modules, so > any of us can log onto the training machine and work at our own speed. How many cats is that? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Aug 25 17:51:55 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:51:55 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Apostrophes and Quotation Marks in Access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <412DA4AB.6467.8AFADF6@lexacorp.com.pg> On 25 Aug 2004 at 16:55, O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA) wrote: > > The ascii difference is straight quote = 39, I have the number for the > curly quote but can't find it right this minute. It is on a slip of > paper on the black hole I call a desk. Trouble is there are two. Word keeps track of them so that it knows whether to use an opener or closer - so you can't just do a find and replace. Left Double Quote = 147 Right Double Quote = 148 -- Stuart From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Aug 25 18:43:57 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:43:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed References: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412C3AA4.408@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <035b01c48afd$63dcf300$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Marty: Don't know exactly how I did it, but I got the alternate keyboard. AND I can key the accent marks directly in an Access table now. Thanks to all Best, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:07 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > Another Method > > Win XP Control Panel --> Regional Language Settings--> Languages > --Details --> Installed services > Add the Spanish Keyboard in addition to English. > > Other button option selections > > Language -choose to float Keyboard Language Bar on Screen as transparent > or in tasktray > I prefer floating bar rather cluttering TaskTray icon > > Key Settings choose a hotkey to switch language keyboard. > > This will give you a floating keyboard selection bar > > Defualt To change language keyboards when typing toggle ALT - Right Shift > > You can also do this by VBA code. I have used to sense Keyboard > language state and switch between French or English Text boxes on same form > There are probably pictures of spanish keyboard mappings at > http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev > > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > > >Stuart: > > > > > >Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when > >keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the mdb > >where I have to key all this Spanish. > > > >Rocky > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Stuart McLachlan" > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:42 PM > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > > > > > > > > > >>On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a > >>>terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the > >>>vowels. > >>> > >>> > >>Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut and > >>paste. > >> > >>>From the Word Help: > >>To insert Press > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter > >> > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter > >> > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter > >> > >>?, ?, ? > >>?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >> > >>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, Y CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter > >> > >>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A > >> > >>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A > >> > >>o, O CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O > >> > >>?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C > >> > >>?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D > >> > >>?, ? CTRL+/, o or O > >> > >>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? > >> > >>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! > >>-- > >>Stuart > >> > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>AccessD mailing list > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 19:45:46 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:45:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: I'm not sure. We have one developer who has been working on the first slice of this while the rest of us come up to speed, but I've been buried in doing updates to our AXP apps, so I can't remember whether we've really decided on that. It seems to me we did. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:26:59 -0700, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of > VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that > rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, > it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! > are you going dotNET 2003? and will you be looking at Reporting Services for your reporting needs? just wondering... btw, I like the development gui tools too. -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 19:46:39 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:46:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: VB.Net. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net >>if you're already very familiar with classes<< Key words there Charlotte. Familiarity with OOP will be a big plus if/when moving to the .NET world. Are you porting to ASP.NET or VB (or C# to be really cool!!)? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". ************************************************************************ *********** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 19:47:29 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:47:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: Since we're in California, the commute might be rather extreme ... Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net ROTFL. Can I go to work for you guys? JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Aug 25 19:49:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:49:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Message-ID: We simply include a Compact button in our application that allows the user to compact the BE on demand. Both our front and back ends are secured, so we open a secured workspace to perform the compact. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 7:12 AM To: Database Advisors Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Hello to All! I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE would also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the BE to auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application and then closed. With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this code to compact the BE when the FE is closed by the last person. Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close option to true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be asked to enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their FE. You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit button is the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) When you push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before using the DoCmd.Quit method. I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will work for everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! Thanks! Dan Waters ProMation Systems, Inc. PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. '-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public Sub CompactBE() On Error GoTo EH Dim stgPath As String Dim blnExclusive As Boolean Dim appAccess As Access.Application Dim varReturn As Variant If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then Exit Sub End If stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting blnExclusive = True Set appAccess = New Access.Application varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens quickly! appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase appAccess.Quit varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) Exit Sub EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", "CompactBE") End Sub Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer On Error GoTo EH Dim con As New ADODB.Connection Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset Dim stgAccessVersion As String Dim intUserCount As Integer Dim stgUserName As String stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema rowset _ in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets Select Case stgAccessVersion Case "9.0" '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access 2000 con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" Case "10.0" '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access 2002 or 2003 Set con = CurrentProject.Connection Case "11.0" '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access 2002 or 2003 Set con = CurrentProject.Connection End Select Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , "{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") If rst.EOF = False Then Do While rst.EOF = False stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, rst.Fields(1), Chr(0)) - 1) If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 End If rst.MoveNext Loop CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount Else CountCurrentUsers = 0 End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing Exit Function EH: Application.Echo True Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current Users", "CountCurrentUsers") End Function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Wed Aug 25 20:14:21 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:14:21 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Message-ID: <102620-22004842611421638@christopherhawkins.com> What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: dwaters at usinternet.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 >Hello to All! > >I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE >would >also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the >BE to >auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application >and then >closed. > >With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this >code to >compact the BE >when the FE is closed by the last person. > >Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close >option to >true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be >asked to >enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their >FE. > >You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit >button is >the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) >When you >push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before >using the >DoCmd.Quit method. > >I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will >work for >everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! > >Thanks! >Dan Waters >ProMation Systems, Inc. > >PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. > > > >'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' > >Option Compare Database >Option Explicit > >Public Sub CompactBE() >On Error GoTo EH > > Dim stgPath As String > Dim blnExclusive As Boolean > Dim appAccess As Access.Application > Dim varReturn As Variant > > If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then > Exit Sub > End If > > stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" > '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting > blnExclusive = True > > Set appAccess = New Access.Application > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") > > appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive > '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens >quickly! > appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase > appAccess.Quit > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) > > Exit Sub > >EH: > Application.Echo True > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", >"CompactBE") > >End Sub > >Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer >On Error GoTo EH > > Dim con As New ADODB.Connection > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > Dim stgAccessVersion As String > Dim intUserCount As Integer > Dim stgUserName As String > > stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) > > '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema >rowset _ > in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ > reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ > listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets > > Select Case stgAccessVersion > Case "9.0" > '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access >2000 > con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data >Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" > Case "10.0" > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >2002 or >2003 > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > Case "11.0" > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >2002 or >2003 > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > End Select > > Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , >"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") > > If rst.EOF = False Then > Do While rst.EOF = False > stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, >rst.Fields(1), >Chr(0)) - 1) > If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then > intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 > End If > rst.MoveNext > Loop > CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount > Else > CountCurrentUsers = 0 > End If > > rst.Close > Set rst = Nothing > > Exit Function > >EH: > Application.Echo True > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current >Users", "CountCurrentUsers") > >End Function > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Respectfully, Christopher Hawkins Managing Developer http://www.christopherhawkins.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Aug 25 21:09:30 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:09:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - Need Outlook Guru In-Reply-To: <008f01c48a75$5eae8980$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <002c01c48b11$b92cea90$4a619a89@DDICK> Thanks Andy Yes I did get it working And yes I looped throuh the Appointments collection till I found A matching EntryID Many thanks BTW work has firmed up a bit - Management have stopped the redundancy talks For at least 1 year (maybe 2) woo hoo Have a great day Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Wednesday, 25 August 2004 5:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - Need Outlook Guru Darren Just thrashing ideas but looking at the Outlook Help they construct it like this: Set myAppt = objFolder.Items.Find("[EntryID] = ""00000000B5860CB6D252A64BB055F39CD7DABCC824332000""") Have you tried that? Of course you have. If you can't get Find working would it be worth trying a For Each loop through the Items collection testing for your EntryId? Long way round but might get you moving. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: 25 August 2004 04:06 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - > Need Outlook Guru > > > Hi all > Need Outlook guru assistance > I have managed to create an Outlook Calendar appointment from > access - excellent, and I am capturing the calendar item's > Unique ID called EntryID > > Now does anyone know how I can delete the same calendar item > using the EntryID The code below NEARLY works, but it dies on > the line about finding a rec > Based on the EntryID > I have scoured the net for examples to delete calendar items > and just can't find any. Another 2 days wasted > > Many thanks in advance > > Darren > > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > """""""""""""" > Function somenewfunction() > > Dim ol As Outlook.Application > Dim olns As Outlook.NameSpace > Dim objFolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder > Dim AllAppts As Outlook.Items > Dim myAppt As Outlook.AppointmentItem > > > Set ol = New Outlook.Application > Set olns = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI") > Set objFolder = olns.GetDefaultFolder(olFolderCalendar) > Set AllAppts = objFolder.Items > Set myAppt = AllAppts.Find("[EntryID] = _ > ""00000000B5860CB6D252A64BB055F39CD7DABCC824332000""") > > MsgBox myAppt.Subject > > End Function > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > """"""""""""" > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Aug 26 07:29:57 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 07:29:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example In-Reply-To: <25982283.1093482971104.JavaMail.root@sniper6.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000101c48b68$6670e1b0$de1811d8@danwaters> Chris, The function called CountCurrentUsers will prevent the CompactBE procedure from running until the last user is exiting. I like your VB utility approach. My system also has a 'shutdown' time period during the night so that backup processes work well. This would be a good time for a scheduled compact. There's nothing retentive about it! I've had a 20 Mb BE grow to 80 Mb - this caused the IT dept. to start an investigation as to why they were having network problems. They weren't aware that they needed to compact the BE regularly. So, a method to automatically compact the BE avoids the whole issue. Chris - would it be possible for you to post the VB utility code, or to make it available to the folks on this list? Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: dwaters at usinternet.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 >Hello to All! > >I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE >would >also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the >BE to >auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application >and then >closed. > >With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this >code to >compact the BE >when the FE is closed by the last person. > >Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close >option to >true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be >asked to >enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their >FE. > >You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit >button is >the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) >When you >push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before >using the >DoCmd.Quit method. > >I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will >work for >everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! > >Thanks! >Dan Waters >ProMation Systems, Inc. > >PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. > > > >'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' > >Option Compare Database >Option Explicit > >Public Sub CompactBE() >On Error GoTo EH > > Dim stgPath As String > Dim blnExclusive As Boolean > Dim appAccess As Access.Application > Dim varReturn As Variant > > If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then > Exit Sub > End If > > stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" > '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting > blnExclusive = True > > Set appAccess = New Access.Application > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") > > appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive > '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens >quickly! > appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase > appAccess.Quit > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) > > Exit Sub > >EH: > Application.Echo True > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", >"CompactBE") > >End Sub > >Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer >On Error GoTo EH > > Dim con As New ADODB.Connection > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > Dim stgAccessVersion As String > Dim intUserCount As Integer > Dim stgUserName As String > > stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) > > '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema >rowset _ > in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ > reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ > listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets > > Select Case stgAccessVersion > Case "9.0" > '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access >2000 > con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data >Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" > Case "10.0" > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >2002 or >2003 > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > Case "11.0" > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >2002 or >2003 > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > End Select > > Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , >"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") > > If rst.EOF = False Then > Do While rst.EOF = False > stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, >rst.Fields(1), >Chr(0)) - 1) > If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then > intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 > End If > rst.MoveNext > Loop > CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount > Else > CountCurrentUsers = 0 > End If > > rst.Close > Set rst = Nothing > > Exit Function > >EH: > Application.Echo True > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current >Users", "CountCurrentUsers") > >End Function > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Respectfully, Christopher Hawkins Managing Developer http://www.christopherhawkins.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Thu Aug 26 08:30:06 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:30:06 +0100 Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: Conscience got the better of me, John, and I visited your site again to find the mysterious yet desired file, C2DbFW3G. Maybe they are rendered unnavigable to your fans in Eurpope, but the navigation buttons are in a mutinous mood over here and won't respond. Thought you should know I haven't forgotten. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else ROTFL. I'm here. And yes, write a class, which you will then put in your framework. Use SysVars to turn it on and off. If you have any questions what I am referring to go to: www.colbyconsulting.com Click C2DbFW3G. Start reading the lectures on classes ... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From JColby at dispec.com Thu Aug 26 09:10:55 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:10:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDD2@DISABILITYINS01> Yea, but at the salary they pay you I could fly back and forth every day right? ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Since we're in California, the commute might be rather extreme ... Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net ROTFL. Can I go to work for you guys? JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Aug 26 10:05:29 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:05:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F02D0884C@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Thanks for the background Dan. This sounds like another good reason to have the front-end on each user's workstation, as well as being sure to compact the latest version before releasing it :-) But at least the LAN is up to 100 mbit (I don't think you meant gigabits), if only I could say the same in my shop. We'll be on 10 mbit for ever. One thing strikes me as odd though and that's the 0.25 second time out for the server printers. A quarter of a second! Seem mighty brief to me, but then I'm no network specialist. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Waters [SMTP:dwaters at usinternet.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 10:09 AM > To: 'Heenan, Lambert' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Lambert, > > The network was in the process of being slowly upgraded to modern switches > (from 10 gbit to 100 gbit). The 80 Mb file was being sent as a single > piece, not broken into separate pieces. As a result, some of the printers > were dropping off-line. I was told that if the printers could not make > contact with the network within 0.25 seconds, then the printer would drop > off-line automatically. The 80 Mb file would take longer than that to get > across the network. > > Actually - my memory has finally come back to me. It was actually a FE > that > had not been decompiled and recompiled that had grown to 80 Mb, and was > later reduced to 20 Mb. 20 Mb did not cause the printers to drop > off-line. > > This was the story I got, and I believe that the IT folks who told me this > also believed it. Does this sound plausible? > > And you're right - this was something of an effort to lay the problems at > the door of Access, when it was really the IT Access developer who had > forgotten to decompile and recompile. > > Thanks, > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:51 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Dan Waters' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Dan, > > I'm curious to know what "network problems" were laid at the door of > Access > just because the BE grew to 80 Mb (not a particularly huge file). > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:30 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > > > Chris, > > > > The function called CountCurrentUsers will prevent the CompactBE > procedure > > from running until the last user is exiting. > > > > I like your VB utility approach. My system also has a 'shutdown' time > > period during the night so that backup processes work well. This would > be > > a > > good time for a scheduled compact. > > > > There's nothing retentive about it! I've had a 20 Mb BE grow to 80 Mb - > > this caused the IT dept. to start an investigation as to why they were > > having network problems. They weren't aware that they needed to compact > > the > > BE regularly. So, a method to automatically compact the BE avoids the > > whole > > issue. > > > > Chris - would it be possible for you to post the VB utility code, or to > > make > > it available to the folks on this list? > > > > Thanks! > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher > > Hawkins > > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 PM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > > > What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the > > back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? > > > > Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a > > database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients > > usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. > > > > -C- > > > > ---- Original Message ---- > > From: dwaters at usinternet.com > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 > > > > >Hello to All! > > > > > >I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE > > >would > > >also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the > > >BE to > > >auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application > > >and then > > >closed. > > > > > >With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this > > >code to > > >compact the BE > > >when the FE is closed by the last person. > > > > > >Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close > > >option to > > >true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be > > >asked to > > >enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their > > >FE. > > > > > >You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit > > >button is > > >the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) > > >When you > > >push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before > > >using the > > >DoCmd.Quit method. > > > > > >I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will > > >work for > > >everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! > > > > > >Thanks! > > >Dan Waters > > >ProMation Systems, Inc. > > > > > >PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. > > > > > > > > > > > >'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' > > > > > >Option Compare Database > > >Option Explicit > > > > > >Public Sub CompactBE() > > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > > > Dim stgPath As String > > > Dim blnExclusive As Boolean > > > Dim appAccess As Access.Application > > > Dim varReturn As Variant > > > > > > If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then > > > Exit Sub > > > End If > > > > > > stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" > > > '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting > > > blnExclusive = True > > > > > > Set appAccess = New Access.Application > > > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") > > > > > > appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive > > > '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens > > >quickly! > > > appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase > > > appAccess.Quit > > > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) > > > > > > Exit Sub > > > > > >EH: > > > Application.Echo True > > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", > > >"CompactBE") > > > > > >End Sub > > > > > >Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer > > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > > > Dim con As New ADODB.Connection > > > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > > > Dim stgAccessVersion As String > > > Dim intUserCount As Integer > > > Dim stgUserName As String > > > > > > stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) > > > > > > '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema > > >rowset _ > > > in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ > > > reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ > > > listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets > > > > > > Select Case stgAccessVersion > > > Case "9.0" > > > '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access > > >2000 > > > con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data > > >Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" > > > Case "10.0" > > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > > >2002 or > > >2003 > > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > > Case "11.0" > > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > > >2002 or > > >2003 > > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > > End Select > > > > > > Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , > > >"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") > > > > > > If rst.EOF = False Then > > > Do While rst.EOF = False > > > stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, > > >rst.Fields(1), > > >Chr(0)) - 1) > > > If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then > > > intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 > > > End If > > > rst.MoveNext > > > Loop > > > CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount > > > Else > > > CountCurrentUsers = 0 > > > End If > > > > > > rst.Close > > > Set rst = Nothing > > > > > > Exit Function > > > > > >EH: > > > Application.Echo True > > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current > > >Users", "CountCurrentUsers") > > > > > >End Function > > > > > > > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Christopher Hawkins > > Managing Developer > > http://www.christopherhawkins.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com Thu Aug 26 10:30:46 2004 From: mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com (Mark Whittinghill) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:30:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ALTER TABLE in Access References: <20040824182626.CUHV1789.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE><000801c48a0b$ae5cb0c0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Message-ID: <007e01c48b81$aa4a88f0$2201a8c0@PASCAL> Francisco, That's exactly what I do. I was looking for a way to to do several ALTER COLUMNS with one ALTER TABLE. I guess I'll just run several ALTER TABLEs. It's no big deal, I just thought it would be slicker if I could do it the other way. Mark Whittinghill Symphony Information Services 763-391-7400 mwhittinghill at symphonyinfo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco Tapia" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] ALTER TABLE in Access > On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:53:41 -0500, Mark Whittinghill > wrote: > > I've tried that and various versions with and without commas, etc. > > > > Mark, According to Harkins' and Reid's SQL:Access to Sql Server; > page 209, you could just use the change data type to do this: > > ALTER TABLE tblCustomers ALTER COLUMN contacts TEXT(25) > > According to the book it changes the original data type to the new > datatype, in this case a larger field size. hope this helps. You can > also run the above command via ADO, have you tried doing it that way? > > -- > -Francisco > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From JColby at dispec.com Thu Aug 26 10:24:53 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:24:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDD5@DISABILITYINS01> The times sound implausible anyway. A 25mb file across a 100 mBIT LAN will take AT LEAST 100/8 seconds to transfer. In fact it will take longer since LANS send data packets with header info etc, and there will inevitably be collisions. In any case a 25mb file simply cannot be transferred across a 100 mbit LAN in less than .25 seconds. JWC -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:05 AM To: 'dwaters at usinternet.com' Cc: Access-D Email (E-mail) Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Thanks for the background Dan. This sounds like another good reason to have the front-end on each user's workstation, as well as being sure to compact the latest version before releasing it :-) But at least the LAN is up to 100 mbit (I don't think you meant gigabits), if only I could say the same in my shop. We'll be on 10 mbit for ever. One thing strikes me as odd though and that's the 0.25 second time out for the server printers. A quarter of a second! Seem mighty brief to me, but then I'm no network specialist. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Waters [SMTP:dwaters at usinternet.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 10:09 AM > To: 'Heenan, Lambert' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Lambert, > > The network was in the process of being slowly upgraded to modern switches > (from 10 gbit to 100 gbit). The 80 Mb file was being sent as a single > piece, not broken into separate pieces. As a result, some of the printers > were dropping off-line. I was told that if the printers could not make > contact with the network within 0.25 seconds, then the printer would drop > off-line automatically. The 80 Mb file would take longer than that to get > across the network. > > Actually - my memory has finally come back to me. It was actually a FE > that > had not been decompiled and recompiled that had grown to 80 Mb, and was > later reduced to 20 Mb. 20 Mb did not cause the printers to drop > off-line. > > This was the story I got, and I believe that the IT folks who told me this > also believed it. Does this sound plausible? > > And you're right - this was something of an effort to lay the problems at > the door of Access, when it was really the IT Access developer who had > forgotten to decompile and recompile. > > Thanks, > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:51 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Dan Waters' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Dan, > > I'm curious to know what "network problems" were laid at the door of > Access > just because the BE grew to 80 Mb (not a particularly huge file). > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:30 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > > > Chris, > > > > The function called CountCurrentUsers will prevent the CompactBE > procedure > > from running until the last user is exiting. > > > > I like your VB utility approach. My system also has a 'shutdown' time > > period during the night so that backup processes work well. This would > be > > a > > good time for a scheduled compact. > > > > There's nothing retentive about it! I've had a 20 Mb BE grow to 80 Mb - > > this caused the IT dept. to start an investigation as to why they were > > having network problems. They weren't aware that they needed to compact > > the > > BE regularly. So, a method to automatically compact the BE avoids the > > whole > > issue. > > > > Chris - would it be possible for you to post the VB utility code, or to > > make > > it available to the folks on this list? > > > > Thanks! > > Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher > > Hawkins > > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 PM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > > > What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the > > back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? > > > > Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a > > database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients > > usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. > > > > -C- > > > > ---- Original Message ---- > > From: dwaters at usinternet.com > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 > > > > >Hello to All! > > > > > >I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE > > >would > > >also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the > > >BE to > > >auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application > > >and then > > >closed. > > > > > >With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this > > >code to > > >compact the BE > > >when the FE is closed by the last person. > > > > > >Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close > > >option to > > >true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be > > >asked to > > >enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their > > >FE. > > > > > >You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit > > >button is > > >the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) > > >When you > > >push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before > > >using the > > >DoCmd.Quit method. > > > > > >I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will > > >work for > > >everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! > > > > > >Thanks! > > >Dan Waters > > >ProMation Systems, Inc. > > > > > >PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. > > > > > > > > > > > >'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' > > > > > >Option Compare Database > > >Option Explicit > > > > > >Public Sub CompactBE() > > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > > > Dim stgPath As String > > > Dim blnExclusive As Boolean > > > Dim appAccess As Access.Application > > > Dim varReturn As Variant > > > > > > If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then > > > Exit Sub > > > End If > > > > > > stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" > > > '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting > > > blnExclusive = True > > > > > > Set appAccess = New Access.Application > > > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") > > > > > > appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive > > > '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens > > >quickly! > > > appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase > > > appAccess.Quit > > > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) > > > > > > Exit Sub > > > > > >EH: > > > Application.Echo True > > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", > > >"CompactBE") > > > > > >End Sub > > > > > >Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer > > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > > > Dim con As New ADODB.Connection > > > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > > > Dim stgAccessVersion As String > > > Dim intUserCount As Integer > > > Dim stgUserName As String > > > > > > stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) > > > > > > '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema > > >rowset _ > > > in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ > > > reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ > > > listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets > > > > > > Select Case stgAccessVersion > > > Case "9.0" > > > '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access > > >2000 > > > con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data > > >Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" > > > Case "10.0" > > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > > >2002 or > > >2003 > > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > > Case "11.0" > > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > > >2002 or > > >2003 > > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > > End Select > > > > > > Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , > > >"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") > > > > > > If rst.EOF = False Then > > > Do While rst.EOF = False > > > stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, > > >rst.Fields(1), > > >Chr(0)) - 1) > > > If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then > > > intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 > > > End If > > > rst.MoveNext > > > Loop > > > CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount > > > Else > > > CountCurrentUsers = 0 > > > End If > > > > > > rst.Close > > > Set rst = Nothing > > > > > > Exit Function > > > > > >EH: > > > Application.Echo True > > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current > > >Users", "CountCurrentUsers") > > > > > >End Function > > > > > > > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Christopher Hawkins > > Managing Developer > > http://www.christopherhawkins.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 26 10:28:27 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:28:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Message-ID: ROTFLMAO Yeah, right!! Charlotte Fouat -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:11 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Yea, but at the salary they pay you I could fly back and forth every day right? ;-) JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Since we're in California, the commute might be rather extreme ... Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net ROTFL. Can I go to work for you guys? JWC -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 2:27 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT - VB.Net Well, I can see why JC has been so pleased with the capabilities of VB.Net. We're planning to release our next major versions in that rather than in Access so I'm going through the training. I must say, it's easier if you're already very familiar with classes! Charlotte Foust Infostat Systems, Inc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Thu Aug 26 10:59:40 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:59:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Message-ID: <184670-22004842615594026@christopherhawkins.com> Sure, I'll hunt it down. It's on one of the zip disks in that stack over there...*pointing to a mountain of storage media*. CountCurrentUsers? Is that a native Access function or something you wrote yourself? I haven't heard of that one. But then again, I"m not as active in Access as I was a few years ago, so I may not be hip to the newest stuff. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: dwaters at usinternet.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 07:29:57 -0500 >Chris, > >The function called CountCurrentUsers will prevent the CompactBE >procedure >from running until the last user is exiting. > >I like your VB utility approach. My system also has a 'shutdown' >time >period during the night so that backup processes work well. This >would be a >good time for a scheduled compact. > >There's nothing retentive about it! I've had a 20 Mb BE grow to 80 >Mb - >this caused the IT dept. to start an investigation as to why they >were >having network problems. They weren't aware that they needed to >compact the >BE regularly. So, a method to automatically compact the BE avoids >the whole >issue. > >Chris - would it be possible for you to post the VB utility code, or >to make >it available to the folks on this list? > >Thanks! >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > >What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the >back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? > >Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a >database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients >usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. > >-C- > >---- Original Message ---- >From: dwaters at usinternet.com >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example >Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 > >>Hello to All! >> >>I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE >>would >>also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the >>BE to >>auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application >>and then >>closed. >> >>With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this >>code to >>compact the BE >>when the FE is closed by the last person. >> >>Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close >>option to >>true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be >>asked to >>enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their >>FE. >> >>You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit >>button is >>the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) >>When you >>push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before >>using the >>DoCmd.Quit method. >> >>I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will >>work for >>everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! >> >>Thanks! >>Dan Waters >>ProMation Systems, Inc. >> >>PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. >> >> >> >>'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' >> >>Option Compare Database >>Option Explicit >> >>Public Sub CompactBE() >>On Error GoTo EH >> >> Dim stgPath As String >> Dim blnExclusive As Boolean >> Dim appAccess As Access.Application >> Dim varReturn As Variant >> >> If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then >> Exit Sub >> End If >> >> stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" >> '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting >> blnExclusive = True >> >> Set appAccess = New Access.Application >> >> varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") >> >> appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive >> '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens >>quickly! >> appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase >> appAccess.Quit >> >> varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) >> >> Exit Sub >> >>EH: >> Application.Echo True >> Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", >>"CompactBE") >> >>End Sub >> >>Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer >>On Error GoTo EH >> >> Dim con As New ADODB.Connection >> Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset >> Dim stgAccessVersion As String >> Dim intUserCount As Integer >> Dim stgUserName As String >> >> stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) >> >> '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema >>rowset _ >> in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ >> reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ >> listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets >> >> Select Case stgAccessVersion >> Case "9.0" >> '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access >>2000 >> con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data >>Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" >> Case "10.0" >> '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >>2002 or >>2003 >> Set con = CurrentProject.Connection >> Case "11.0" >> '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >>2002 or >>2003 >> Set con = CurrentProject.Connection >> End Select >> >> Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , >>"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") >> >> If rst.EOF = False Then >> Do While rst.EOF = False >> stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, >>rst.Fields(1), >>Chr(0)) - 1) >> If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then >> intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 >> End If >> rst.MoveNext >> Loop >> CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount >> Else >> CountCurrentUsers = 0 >> End If >> >> rst.Close >> Set rst = Nothing >> >> Exit Function >> >>EH: >> Application.Echo True >> Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count >Current >>Users", "CountCurrentUsers") >> >>End Function >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >Respectfully, > >Christopher Hawkins >Managing Developer >http://www.christopherhawkins.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Respectfully, Christopher Hawkins Managing Developer http://www.christopherhawkins.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 10:59:05 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:59:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Gmail Invite (d) Message-ID: I am giving away 1 Gmail Invite, first to respond off list w/ a joke gets it :) -- -Francisco From kaupca at chevrontexaco.com Thu Aug 26 12:17:59 2004 From: kaupca at chevrontexaco.com (Kaup, Chester A) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:17:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: Focus on form in code Message-ID: <193572B4E0FC1744BEDFEE63F82CEC9E0273968D@bocnte2k4.boc.chevrontexaco.net> > I have a line of code in module that opens a form. The form opens fine > but then the code moves on to the next line and starts executing it. I > need the user to be able to enter data on the form. What do I need to > put in the code? Thanks > > Chester Kaup > Information Management Technician > IT-MidContinent/MidContinent Business Unit > CTN 8-687-7415 > Outside 432-687-7414 > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Aug 26 12:32:42 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:32:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Gmail Invite (d) References: Message-ID: <025e01c48b92$b13149e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> What's a Gmail invite? (Before I waste a good joke...) Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco Tapia" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:59 AM Subject: [AccessD] Gmail Invite (d) > I am giving away 1 Gmail Invite, first to respond off list w/ a joke gets it :) > -- > -Francisco > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From JColby at dispec.com Thu Aug 26 12:47:46 2004 From: JColby at dispec.com (Colby, John) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:47:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes Message-ID: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDD8@DISABILITYINS01> The Insurance Call Center software I developed for DIS uses a fair amount of file manipulations. For example I export data to text files for a couple of different data sets to send off to the Insurer to update their system with the file statuses. These files start a claim at the insurer and then tell the insurer to pay the claim, how much and when. It is necessary to track these file exports pretty closely since if they don't go the Claimant doesn't get paid. I inherited code that did this process from the old system that I replaced and since it "mostly worked" I never rewrote it. The Insurer is moving to a new automated software that changes the way they do things so I am now converting that old system from using a word doc to hold the changes to using a fixed width field text file. The file will now be FTPd to a server instead of opened and read (manually keyed in) at the other end. Automation, gotta love it. One of the problems I encountered in the "old way" of doing things was that a process would export the file, attach the file to an email and pray that it made it out of the email server. If it didn't then we would manually monitor an email box where we sent the files (to ourselves) and if a file didn't go, we had to go manually build an email, find the file and attach it to the email and try again. Of course this new way gives me the opportunity to do things better (we hope!). One of the things I need to do is track the status of the file as it is exported and uploaded. My idea is to simply have processes that run. A file export process exports the file. A FTP process uploads the file. An Email process attaches files to emails and tries to send them. As processes handle files, they all need to log a status for the file. Rather than have code in each process that knows about table names, how to read / write the tables etc. I decided to build a set of classes that handles logging and reporting file statuses. There are two tables involved: atblFile FIL_ID Autonumber PK FIL_Spec The fully pathed file/name/extension of the file being processed FIL_Dte The date this record created FIL_Time The time this record created FIL_Cmpltd The date the processing successfully completed atblFileStatus FILST_ID Autonumber PK FILST_IDFIL The FK of the FILE record FILST_Status The text status of the file FILST_Dte The date this record created FILST_Time The time this record created I then built three classes: clsFileSupervisor, a supervisor class to manipulate the file records. clsFile, a file to store the data in a single record from atblFile clsFileStatus, a class to store each status record for a given file record. clsFileStatus has no processing at all, it just stores a status and has properties to return the pieces of the status record. clsFile is able to load the status records for the File PK, and instantiate clsFileStatus for each status, storing the classes in a collection. It is also able to create a new status record in the status table for the file it is processing. It also has properties for the file itself as well as a current status property and a property that can return the entire collection of statuses. clsFileSupervisor manages the process of building, reading and updating files and their statuses. It loads all the files that are not Cmpltd into classes and stores these file classes in a collection. It also can return a specific file class instance or the entire collection of file classes. Additionally, it monitors a message class. The message class has been discussed in various places in my previous ramblings, but is basically just a small class with two methods that can be called. Send(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) SendSimple(varMsg As Variant) These two methods do nothing more than raise an event Message() and MessageSimple() passing the parameters right back out. Thus any process can grab a pointer to the message class and send messages. This File Status Logger class can grab a pointer to the message class and sink the messages. Private WithEvents mclsMsg As dclsMsg Private Sub mclsMsg_Message(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, _ varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) ' 'messages sent using the more complex message() event will be scanned by the 'File Supervisor. If the To is "FileSuper" then the message will be processed here ' If varTo = "FileSuper" Then 'The Subject will be the File Spec 'The Msg will be the status 'Process the message, logging the filespec and status in the log table End If End Sub Messages have a To: which must be set to "FileSuper" in order for the file supervisor to handle the message. Any message sent on this message channel addressed To: FileSuper is assumed to have a Subject: of FileSpec (the path/name/extension of the file being processed) and a Message: of the status. Any such messages are grabbed by the supervisor class. If the filespec already exists in the table (and is loaded in the collection) then the existing clsFile logs the STATUS (the Message:) into atblFileStatus. If the FileSpec does not exist then a new File record (and class) is created and then the STATUS is logged (and a class created). The upshot of all this (and it's not THAT complicated), is that any process can log a file status simply by sending a message on the message channel. This eliminates having to build code in each class that manipulates a file to handle this status logging. The process could be implemented without the message class of course by loading and getting a pointer to the file logger, calling methods of that class directly. I just like the indirection allowed by the message class. In summary, I build processes that handle each step of manipulating a file, building the file and archiving it to disk, uploading it to the FTP server etc. Each process logs it's status via this set of File Status classes. Any process can also check the status of a file from this file supervisor to see whether a previous process is complete, whether a process failed etc. The "last process" class updates the Completed date in the File class to indicate that the file has successfully finished the entire handling process sequences, whatever that sequence may be. This should allow much more robust failure recovery, where any given process simply looks for files with a given current status and processes them, logging the updated status as they finish. Any failure allows the same process to retry later and if successful, log the process success in the file status log. The process classes will be responsible for sending email messages to myself and a "failure notify" list of any failed processes so that failures can be investigated. My intention with these rather long winded messages is to provide examples of how classes can be used to encapsulate processes and allow each such process to be self contained. Systems like this can be tested all by themselves without any of the surrounding processes since with a specified interface they don't depend on the other processes to be loaded and functioning. This allows testing as a "black box" that does what it is supposed to do. Poke it and see if it wiggles. Build file records, add statuses, read file properties, read file statuses and properties. These things should work precisely as designed regardless. Once this black box works, use it with the next black box to record the status of the file being processed by that black box. John W. Colby The DIS Database Guy From marcus at tsstech.com Thu Aug 26 13:14:40 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:14:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes Message-ID: John, Until I read the last paragraph, I started to wonder where the question was. Not being mean...but next time, let us know earlier in the email that the post is informative only. Scott -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes The Insurance Call Center software I developed for DIS uses a fair amount of file manipulations. For example I export data to text files for a couple of different data sets to send off to the Insurer to update their system with the file statuses. These files start a claim at the insurer and then tell the insurer to pay the claim, how much and when. It is necessary to track these file exports pretty closely since if they don't go the Claimant doesn't get paid. I inherited code that did this process from the old system that I replaced and since it "mostly worked" I never rewrote it. The Insurer is moving to a new automated software that changes the way they do things so I am now converting that old system from using a word doc to hold the changes to using a fixed width field text file. The file will now be FTPd to a server instead of opened and read (manually keyed in) at the other end. Automation, gotta love it. One of the problems I encountered in the "old way" of doing things was that a process would export the file, attach the file to an email and pray that it made it out of the email server. If it didn't then we would manually monitor an email box where we sent the files (to ourselves) and if a file didn't go, we had to go manually build an email, find the file and attach it to the email and try again. Of course this new way gives me the opportunity to do things better (we hope!). One of the things I need to do is track the status of the file as it is exported and uploaded. My idea is to simply have processes that run. A file export process exports the file. A FTP process uploads the file. An Email process attaches files to emails and tries to send them. As processes handle files, they all need to log a status for the file. Rather than have code in each process that knows about table names, how to read / write the tables etc. I decided to build a set of classes that handles logging and reporting file statuses. There are two tables involved: atblFile FIL_ID Autonumber PK FIL_Spec The fully pathed file/name/extension of the file being processed FIL_Dte The date this record created FIL_Time The time this record created FIL_Cmpltd The date the processing successfully completed atblFileStatus FILST_ID Autonumber PK FILST_IDFIL The FK of the FILE record FILST_Status The text status of the file FILST_Dte The date this record created FILST_Time The time this record created I then built three classes: clsFileSupervisor, a supervisor class to manipulate the file records. clsFile, a file to store the data in a single record from atblFile clsFileStatus, a class to store each status record for a given file record. clsFileStatus has no processing at all, it just stores a status and has properties to return the pieces of the status record. clsFile is able to load the status records for the File PK, and instantiate clsFileStatus for each status, storing the classes in a collection. It is also able to create a new status record in the status table for the file it is processing. It also has properties for the file itself as well as a current status property and a property that can return the entire collection of statuses. clsFileSupervisor manages the process of building, reading and updating files and their statuses. It loads all the files that are not Cmpltd into classes and stores these file classes in a collection. It also can return a specific file class instance or the entire collection of file classes. Additionally, it monitors a message class. The message class has been discussed in various places in my previous ramblings, but is basically just a small class with two methods that can be called. Send(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) SendSimple(varMsg As Variant) These two methods do nothing more than raise an event Message() and MessageSimple() passing the parameters right back out. Thus any process can grab a pointer to the message class and send messages. This File Status Logger class can grab a pointer to the message class and sink the messages. Private WithEvents mclsMsg As dclsMsg Private Sub mclsMsg_Message(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, _ varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) ' 'messages sent using the more complex message() event will be scanned by the 'File Supervisor. If the To is "FileSuper" then the message will be processed here ' If varTo = "FileSuper" Then 'The Subject will be the File Spec 'The Msg will be the status 'Process the message, logging the filespec and status in the log table End If End Sub Messages have a To: which must be set to "FileSuper" in order for the file supervisor to handle the message. Any message sent on this message channel addressed To: FileSuper is assumed to have a Subject: of FileSpec (the path/name/extension of the file being processed) and a Message: of the status. Any such messages are grabbed by the supervisor class. If the filespec already exists in the table (and is loaded in the collection) then the existing clsFile logs the STATUS (the Message:) into atblFileStatus. If the FileSpec does not exist then a new File record (and class) is created and then the STATUS is logged (and a class created). The upshot of all this (and it's not THAT complicated), is that any process can log a file status simply by sending a message on the message channel. This eliminates having to build code in each class that manipulates a file to handle this status logging. The process could be implemented without the message class of course by loading and getting a pointer to the file logger, calling methods of that class directly. I just like the indirection allowed by the message class. In summary, I build processes that handle each step of manipulating a file, building the file and archiving it to disk, uploading it to the FTP server etc. Each process logs it's status via this set of File Status classes. Any process can also check the status of a file from this file supervisor to see whether a previous process is complete, whether a process failed etc. The "last process" class updates the Completed date in the File class to indicate that the file has successfully finished the entire handling process sequences, whatever that sequence may be. This should allow much more robust failure recovery, where any given process simply looks for files with a given current status and processes them, logging the updated status as they finish. Any failure allows the same process to retry later and if successful, log the process success in the file status log. The process classes will be responsible for sending email messages to myself and a "failure notify" list of any failed processes so that failures can be investigated. My intention with these rather long winded messages is to provide examples of how classes can be used to encapsulate processes and allow each such process to be self contained. Systems like this can be tested all by themselves without any of the surrounding processes since with a specified interface they don't depend on the other processes to be loaded and functioning. This allows testing as a "black box" that does what it is supposed to do. Poke it and see if it wiggles. Build file records, add statuses, read file properties, read file statuses and properties. These things should work precisely as designed regardless. Once this black box works, use it with the next black box to record the status of the file being processed by that black box. John W. Colby The DIS Database Guy -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 26 13:19:13 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:19:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material References: Message-ID: <412E29A1.5020202@shaw.ca> Here is some snippet code to call Excel's Descriptive Statistical Functions The first calls the basic Excel Functions, The second calls the Excel Solver and Analysis Pack functions which are essentially .xla files, these may have to installed via full install of Excel. If doing a heavy duty statistical analysis which has to be strongly QA'ed, I might be tempted to uses SAS or SPSS. Excel still has some petty glitches. like the Random function failing to being close to a truely random distribution after a point beyond a million calls. SAS has a training educational version for $125, it is limited to Datasets of 1000 points. I believe SAS came out with an Office addin in April, that allows calls from Word, Excel or Access. http://support.sas.com/news/insider/msaddin.html The graphing tool available to Office products is limited even in considering aesthetic presentations. So you might want to consider a 3'd party Active X control for graphical display ie. putting a jpeg in a report.. Sub FindMedian() 'set a reference to Excel object library 'uses linked Northwinds Product table Dim appXL As Excel.Application Dim dbs As Database, rst As Recordset Dim strSQL As String, intI As Integer Dim sngArray() As Single, sngMedian As Single ' Create SQL string. strSQL = "SELECT DISTINCTROW UnitPrice FROM Products ORDER BY UnitPrice;" ' Return reference to current database. Set dbs = CurrentDb ' Open dynaset-type recordset. Set rst = dbs.OpenRecordset(strSQL) ' Populate recordset. rst.MoveLast ' Return to beginning of recordset. rst.MoveFirst ' Redimension array based on recordset size. ReDim sngArray(0 To rst.RecordCount - 1) ' Populate array with values from recordset. For intI = 0 To UBound(sngArray) sngArray(intI) = rst!UnitPrice rst.MoveNext Next ' Create new instance of Excel Application object. Set appXL = CreateObject("Excel.Application") ' Pass array to Excel's Median function. sngMedian = appXL.Application.Median(sngArray()) Debug.Print sngMedian ' Close Excel. appXL.Quit ' Free object variables. Set appXL = Nothing Set dbs = Nothing End Sub ------------ 'sample call '?fLCM(24,36) ' Function fLCM(intA As Integer, intB As Integer) As Integer 'Least Common Multiple of Integers function 'set a reference to Excel object library Dim objXL As Excel.Application Dim strText As String Dim blnCheck As Boolean Set objXL = New Excel.Application strText = objXL.Application.LibraryPath Debug.Print strText With objXL blnCheck = .RegisterXLL(.Application.LibraryPath & "\solver\solver.dLL") Debug.Print blnCheck 'If .AddIns("Analysis Toolpak").Installed Then .Workbooks.Open (objXL.Application.LibraryPath & _ "\Analysis\atpvbaen.xla") .Workbooks("atpvbaen.xla").RunAutoMacros (xlAutoOpen) fLCM = .Application.Run("atpvbaen.xla!lcm", intA, intB) ' Else ' .Workbooks.VBProject.References.AddFromFile Filename:=obj.Application.LibraryPath & "\Analysis\atpvbaen.xla" 'fLCM = 0 'MsgBox "Can't Find Analysis Toolpak atpvbaen.xla" 'End If End With objXL.Quit Set objXL = Nothing End Function Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) wrote: >Jim, > >I wasn't offended by any means...honestly. It was all in jest to remind >myself that I can't ALWAYS do it all myself. > >Mark > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:15 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material > > >Mark, >I didn't mean to insinuate any limitation of your skill set. >Rather, it's better to have two sets of eyes on the prize...;) >Jim > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark >S. (Newport News) >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:18 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material > > >Jim, > >Well thank you for pointing out my obvious limitations;) I have a sneaking >suspicion that a mathematician may indeed be needed before this is all said >and done. I will have to keep that in mind so that I can bring in >assistance sooner rather than later. > > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:42 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material > > > >Mark, >We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) >of inspectors. >The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. >lugs). >All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including >equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is >done to determine the POD. >When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with >the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the >"FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician >didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't >needed. >Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down >into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. >For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of >Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the >components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a >select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query >is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using >the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final >query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. >The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is >placed in the text box of the report. >The formula is: >=Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]* >[R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-([ >C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N])) >*([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) > >For our purposes this works. > >My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. >Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually >on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and >analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually >collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step >when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it >was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each >component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. >have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do >they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've >earned it. > >Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each >formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the >calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report >that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many >queries) has taken several minutes to finish. > >HTH > >Best of luck. > >Jim > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark >S. (Newport News) >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM >To: [AccessD] >Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material > > >Group, > >Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing >sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and >graphing? > > >Mark > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Thu Aug 26 13:39:54 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:39:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material Message-ID: Thanks Marty. Desktop SAS...who knew? Thankfully, all the mainframe SAS code I utilize was written long before I came on board...all I have to do is maintain and hope nothing goes wrong. The only hiccup we've had was an OS update that necessitated a few library changes. Mark -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 2:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reference Material Here is some snippet code to call Excel's Descriptive Statistical Functions The first calls the basic Excel Functions, The second calls the Excel Solver and Analysis Pack functions which are essentially .xla files, these may have to installed via full install of Excel. If doing a heavy duty statistical analysis which has to be strongly QA'ed, I might be tempted to uses SAS or SPSS. Excel still has some petty glitches. like the Random function failing to being close to a truely random distribution after a point beyond a million calls. SAS has a training educational version for $125, it is limited to Datasets of 1000 points. I believe SAS came out with an Office addin in April, that allows calls from Word, Excel or Access. http://support.sas.com/news/insider/msaddin.html The graphing tool available to Office products is limited even in considering aesthetic presentations. So you might want to consider a 3'd party Active X control for graphical display ie. putting a jpeg in a report.. Sub FindMedian() 'set a reference to Excel object library 'uses linked Northwinds Product table Dim appXL As Excel.Application Dim dbs As Database, rst As Recordset Dim strSQL As String, intI As Integer Dim sngArray() As Single, sngMedian As Single ' Create SQL string. strSQL = "SELECT DISTINCTROW UnitPrice FROM Products ORDER BY UnitPrice;" ' Return reference to current database. Set dbs = CurrentDb ' Open dynaset-type recordset. Set rst = dbs.OpenRecordset(strSQL) ' Populate recordset. rst.MoveLast ' Return to beginning of recordset. rst.MoveFirst ' Redimension array based on recordset size. ReDim sngArray(0 To rst.RecordCount - 1) ' Populate array with values from recordset. For intI = 0 To UBound(sngArray) sngArray(intI) = rst!UnitPrice rst.MoveNext Next ' Create new instance of Excel Application object. Set appXL = CreateObject("Excel.Application") ' Pass array to Excel's Median function. sngMedian = appXL.Application.Median(sngArray()) Debug.Print sngMedian ' Close Excel. appXL.Quit ' Free object variables. Set appXL = Nothing Set dbs = Nothing End Sub ------------ 'sample call '?fLCM(24,36) ' Function fLCM(intA As Integer, intB As Integer) As Integer 'Least Common Multiple of Integers function 'set a reference to Excel object library Dim objXL As Excel.Application Dim strText As String Dim blnCheck As Boolean Set objXL = New Excel.Application strText = objXL.Application.LibraryPath Debug.Print strText With objXL blnCheck = .RegisterXLL(.Application.LibraryPath & "\solver\solver.dLL") Debug.Print blnCheck 'If .AddIns("Analysis Toolpak").Installed Then .Workbooks.Open (objXL.Application.LibraryPath & _ "\Analysis\atpvbaen.xla") .Workbooks("atpvbaen.xla").RunAutoMacros (xlAutoOpen) fLCM = .Application.Run("atpvbaen.xla!lcm", intA, intB) ' Else ' .Workbooks.VBProject.References.AddFromFile Filename:=obj.Application.LibraryPath & "\Analysis\atpvbaen.xla" 'fLCM = 0 'MsgBox "Can't Find Analysis Toolpak atpvbaen.xla" 'End If End With objXL.Quit Set objXL = Nothing End Function Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) wrote: >Jim, > >I wasn't offended by any means...honestly. It was all in jest to remind >myself that I can't ALWAYS do it all myself. > >Mark > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:15 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material > > >Mark, >I didn't mean to insinuate any limitation of your skill set. >Rather, it's better to have two sets of eyes on the prize...;) >Jim > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark >S. (Newport News) >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:18 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material > > >Jim, > >Well thank you for pointing out my obvious limitations;) I have a sneaking >suspicion that a mathematician may indeed be needed before this is all said >and done. I will have to keep that in mind so that I can bring in >assistance sooner rather than later. > > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:42 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Reference Material > > > >Mark, >We have a contract to do an analysis of the probability of detection (POD) >of inspectors. >The inspectors would "inspect" specimens similar to aircraft parts (e.g. >lugs). >All the data for the specimens, inspectors and inspections (including >equipment used) is stored in an Access database. Statistical analysis is >done to determine the POD. >When developing the database we looked for reference material to help with >the statistical analysis in Access. We did not find any. We purchased the >"FMS Total Access Statistics" to help the analysis. Our mathematician >didn't like it. We also felt it created a lot of overhead that wasn't >needed. >Bottom-line. We rolled our own. Statistical formulas can be broken down >into their components. Then queries are created to "populate" the formula. >For example, the Chi-square analysis to determine the "Coefficient of >Contingency" (our mathematician's words) uses one query that calculates the >components. The sequence of events for the calculations begins with a >select query that uses eight tables and a form for the criteria. That query >is used in another select query using six tables (some are repeated). Using >the previous query, another query does some calculations. And the final >query is created using the previous query to do more calculations. >The final query results is the components of the formula. The formula is >placed in the text box of the report. >The formula is: >=Sqr((1/([C1]*[R1])*(([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))*([A]-([C1]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C2] * >[R1])*(([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))*([B]-([C2]*[R1]/[N]))))+(1/([C1]*[R2])*(([C]-( [ >C1]*[R2]/[N]))*([C]-([C1]*[R2]/[N]))))+(1/([C2]*[R2])*(([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]) ) >*([D]-([C2]*[R2]/[N]))))) > >For our purposes this works. > >My suggestion is to take it step by step, slowly. >Have a mathematician involved that can calculate the correct answer manually >on your sample data. Determine the data you need to do the calculations and >analyze the data collection process. Determine if you are actually >collecting the correct data for the statistical analysis. At every step >when creating the queries, determine if the results are correct. I found it >was best to work backwards. Look at the formula and determine where each >component should come from the data. After all the queries, criteria, etc. >have been created compare the results with the mathematicians answer - do >they match? If not, go back and find out why. If so, CELEBRATE! You've >earned it. > >Triple - no - quadruple the time you think it might take to do this. Each >formula could take up to a week or more to perfect. Access will do the >calculations, but be prepared to add user interface feedback. One report >that has several sub reports that have numerous calculations (using many >queries) has taken several minutes to finish. > >HTH > >Best of luck. > >Jim > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark >S. (Newport News) >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 AM >To: [AccessD] >Subject: [AccessD] Reference Material > > >Group, > >Can anyone suggest some reference material that discusses developing >sophisticated Access reports which will include statistical analysis and >graphing? > > >Mark > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 13:44:43 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:44:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Gmail Invite (d) In-Reply-To: <025e01c48b92$b13149e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <025e01c48b92$b13149e0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:32:42 -0700, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > What's a Gmail invite? (Before I waste a good joke...) The winner is Joe Rojas, Thanks Joe for a good blonde joke ;o), and being the first to reply off list :D. For those who haven't heard of Gmail (which I'm acctually surprised) http://gmail.google.com/gmail/help/about.html Gmail is google's answer to email, you get 1gb of email space, and their web interface is THE best hands down, no need for yahoo, no need for hotmail, GMail allows you to use "effective" spam blocking, and following a thread in GMail surpasses even Thunderbird's layout :) it effectively hides quoted text, and allows you to view it if you really want to... it's awesome. Joe, enjoy your new account :) I've been using Gmail for about 3 weeks, and was given a few Gmail Invites to give away, I naturally chose this and the dba-SqlServer list for giving away some invites :D -- -Francisco From kaupca at chevrontexaco.com Thu Aug 26 13:57:19 2004 From: kaupca at chevrontexaco.com (Kaup, Chester A) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:57:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: Focus on form in code Message-ID: <193572B4E0FC1744BEDFEE63F82CEC9E0273968E@bocnte2k4.boc.chevrontexaco.net> Problem solved Open form as a dialog. Chester Kaup Information Management Technician IT-MidContinent/MidContinent Business Unit CTN 8-687-7415 Outside 432-687-7414 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester A Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] FW: Focus on form in code > I have a line of code in module that opens a form. The form opens fine > but then the code moves on to the next line and starts executing it. I > need the user to be able to enter data on the form. What do I need to > put in the code? Thanks > > Chester Kaup > Information Management Technician IT-MidContinent/MidContinent > Business Unit CTN 8-687-7415 > Outside 432-687-7414 > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Aug 26 14:06:36 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:06:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE98@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> I am currently doing the following to create a recordet from an existing parameter query: qryString(7) = "qryPlanHistCYplan_Upload_Improved" Set qdfTemp(7) = dbs2.QueryDefs(qryString(7)) qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(1)) = intDept qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(2)) = intCo qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(3)) = strCatcode1 qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(5)) = strPlGroup Set recset(7) = qdfTemp(7).OpenRecordset() This works fine. However, I need to change parameter(4) into something like the following qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales or misc" I can't seem to get the syntax right. Can anyone tell me the correct syntax? TIA Jim Hale From kwilliam at ashlandnet.com Thu Aug 26 15:06:42 2004 From: kwilliam at ashlandnet.com (Keith Williamson) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:06:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Report based on unbound fields on a form In-Reply-To: <002c01c48b11$b92cea90$4a619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <000c01c48ba8$34aa0220$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Is there a way to transfer data from unbound fields, on a form, to populate fields in a report?? Or do I have to create a temporary table to store the unbound data, and then base the report on that? Thanks in advance. Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Aug 26 14:08:03 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:08:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed References: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412C3AA4.408@shaw.ca> <035b01c48afd$63dcf300$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <412E3513.7090306@shaw.ca> If you are going to get deeper into this. Here are two rough code snippets to switch languages on the fly for data entry in Access. One uses API calls, the other keyboard events. The Canadian Government sometimes specifies bilingual French-English form data entry. I dunno how to handle DBCS languages like Chinese Big 5. As they say, that is left for an exercise for the student. You probably fiddle around with the IME. Public Declare Function LoadKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" Alias _ "LoadKeyboardLayoutA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String, ByVal Flags As Long) As Long Private Declare Function ActivateKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" (ByVal HKL As Long, _ ByVal Flags As Long) As Long Private Declare Function GetKeyboardLayoutName Lib "user32" Alias _ "GetKeyboardLayoutNameA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String) As Long Const KL_NAMELENGTH = 9 Sub testarabic() Dim lRet As Long 'your language selection bar will have languages added if available on the machine. ' warning if bar isn't visible on screen taskbar or floating version, you may have to go to control panel to reset ' to proper language desired. lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For English Debug.Print lRet lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) Debug.Print lRet lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000401", 1) ' For Arabic Debug.Print lRet lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000401", 0) Debug.Print lRet lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00011009", 1) ' For FrenchCanadian Debug.Print lRet lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00011009", 0) Debug.Print lRet End Sub Sub resetenglish() Dim lRet As Long lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For US English Debug.Print lRet lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) Debug.Print lRet End Sub Sub whatiskeybd() Dim strName As String 'Create a buffer strName = String(KL_NAMELENGTH, 0) 'Get the keyboard layout name GetKeyboardLayoutName strName Debug.Print "Keyboard layout name: " & strName End Sub ------------------------------------------------------------------- Alternate method for bilingual entry on textboxes assumes you have only two languages on language bar or you are using only one hot key switch 'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/Unicode-KbdsonWindows.pdf 'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/nlsweb/default.asp?submitted=40d 'Part of the file Win32api.txt: ' ' VK_L VK_R - left and right Alt, Ctrl and Shift virtual keys. ' Used only as parameters to GetAsyncKeyState() and GetKeyState(). ' No other API or message will distinguish left and right keys in this 'way. ' / Public Const VK_LSHIFT = &HA0 Public Const VK_RSHIFT = &HA1 Public Const VK_LCONTROL = &HA2 Public Const VK_RCONTROL = &HA3 Public Const VK_LMENU = &HA4 Public Const VK_RMENU = &HA5 'What a weird name for the Alt-key. but it does use the menu Private Const VK_LWIN = &H5B 'Left window button Private Const VK_RETURN = &HD 'ENTER key Private Const VK_SHIFT = &H10 'SHIFT key Private Const VK_CONTROL = &H11 'CTRL key Private Const VK_MENU = &H12 'ALT key Private Const VK_PAUSE = &H13 'PAUSE key Private Const VK_CAPITAL = &H14 'CAPS LOCK key Private Const VK_SNAPSHOT = &H2C 'Print Screen Private Const VK_APPS = &H5D 'Applications key on a Microsoft Natural Keyboard 'from http://support.microsoft.com/view/dev.asp?kb=242971 Const GW_HWNDFIRST = 0 Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 Private Const KEYEVENTF_KEYUP = &H2 Private Declare Sub keybd_event Lib "user32" (ByVal bVk As Byte, _ ByVal bScan As Byte, ByVal dwFlags As Long, ByVal dwExtraInfo As Long) Sub ShiftToLanguage() 'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox 'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key 'order of pressing important keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, 0, 0 keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock 'has been left on keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 Debug.Print "Shift" DoEvents End Sub Sub ShiftToLanguageBack() 'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox 'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key 'order of pressing important keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, 0, 0 keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock 'has been left on keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 Debug.Print "Shift Back" DoEvents End Sub Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >Marty: > >Don't know exactly how I did it, but I got the alternate keyboard. AND I >can key the accent marks directly in an Access table now. > >Thanks to all > >Best, > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:07 AM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > > > > >>Another Method >> >>Win XP Control Panel --> Regional Language Settings--> Languages >>--Details --> Installed services >> Add the Spanish Keyboard in addition to English. >> >>Other button option selections >> >>Language -choose to float Keyboard Language Bar on Screen as transparent >>or in tasktray >>I prefer floating bar rather cluttering TaskTray icon >> >>Key Settings choose a hotkey to switch language keyboard. >> >>This will give you a floating keyboard selection bar >> >>Defualt To change language keyboards when typing toggle ALT - Right Shift >> >> You can also do this by VBA code. I have used to sense Keyboard >>language state and switch between French or English Text boxes on same >> >> >form > > >>There are probably pictures of spanish keyboard mappings at >>http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev >> >>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >> >> >> >>>Stuart: >>> >>> >>>Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when >>>keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the >>> >>> >mdb > > >>>where I have to key all this Spanish. >>> >>>Rocky >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Stuart McLachlan" >>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> >>>Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:42 PM >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a >>>>>terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the >>>>>vowels. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut and >>>>paste. >>>> >>>>>From the Word Help: >>>>To insert Press >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter >>>> >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter >>>> >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter >>>> >>>>?, ?, ? >>>>?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>> >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, Y CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter >>>> >>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A >>>> >>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A >>>> >>>>o, O CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O >>>> >>>>?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C >>>> >>>>?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D >>>> >>>>?, ? CTRL+/, o or O >>>> >>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? >>>> >>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! >>>>-- >>>>Stuart >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 26 17:21:25 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:21:25 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE98@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <412EEF05.24384.3788899@lexacorp.com.pg> On 26 Aug 2004 at 14:06, Hale, Jim wrote: > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(5)) = strPlGroup > > Set recset(7) = qdfTemp(7).OpenRecordset() > > This works fine. However, I need to change parameter(4) into something like > the following > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales or misc" Try "'sales' or 'query'" ie put the individual items in single quotes.-- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 26 17:28:15 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:28:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDD8@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <412EF09F.8636.37ECA39@lexacorp.com.pg> On 26 Aug 2004 at 13:47, Colby, John wrote: > FILST_Dte The date this record created > FILST_Time The time this record created > Why are you using two different fields for date and time? -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Aug 26 17:32:56 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:32:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example In-Reply-To: <184670-22004842615594026@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <412EF1B8.10959.38313D1@lexacorp.com.pg> > CountCurrentUsers? Is that a native Access function or something you > wrote yourself? That's what you get with top posting and no trimming. The important stuff gets lost at the end of the message It was still there at the bottom of your reply: > >>Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer References: <002c01c48b11$b92cea90$4a619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <412EF30D.28699.3884662@lexacorp.com.pg> On 26 Aug 2004 at 16:06, Keith Williamson wrote: > Is there a way to transfer data from unbound fields, on a form, to populate > fields in a report?? > If the form is still open when the report is opened, just set the control source of the report fields to something like "=Forms!frmParameterForm.txtFirstParameter" In A2002, I believe (I only do up to A2K) you can use OpenArgs in reports as well as forms to pass parameters when the report is opened. You can store parameters in Global variables of Static functions which you initialise in the forma nd then read in the report. -- Stuart From davide at dalyn.co.nz Thu Aug 26 18:48:08 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:48:08 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040827112819.00b2c010@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Group, I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or DoCmd.TransferText commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in MSAccess.exe). Examples are - DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, strTableName, strFullName DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, False DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, "dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", strFullName DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, False The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with Office 97 and Office XP). I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on my machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program Files\Microsoft Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version 10.0.2627.1. Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park Wellington, New Zealand Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 Mobile 027-280-9348 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 26 18:55:59 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:55:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes In-Reply-To: <412EF09F.8636.37ECA39@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001e01c48bc8$40c1a890$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> "To make you ask questions" ;-) Can you tell I have a 3 year old asking "why...?" all day long? The answer is that it is easier to filter the dates. I only want the times for knowing the specific time of day that a process occurred. I use the dates to decide when something happens. It's just easier to use. There will be a handful - 10 to 20 - of these records per day so it's not like a million a month or something. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 6:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] File status logging classes On 26 Aug 2004 at 13:47, Colby, John wrote: > FILST_Dte The date this record created > FILST_Time The time this record created > Why are you using two different fields for date and time? -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Aug 26 18:59:10 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:59:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDD8@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: Fantastic John Much Appreciated!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes The Insurance Call Center software I developed for DIS uses a fair amount of file manipulations. For example I export data to text files for a couple of different data sets to send off to the Insurer to update their system with the file statuses. These files start a claim at the insurer and then tell the insurer to pay the claim, how much and when. It is necessary to track these file exports pretty closely since if they don't go the Claimant doesn't get paid. I inherited code that did this process from the old system that I replaced and since it "mostly worked" I never rewrote it. The Insurer is moving to a new automated software that changes the way they do things so I am now converting that old system from using a word doc to hold the changes to using a fixed width field text file. The file will now be FTPd to a server instead of opened and read (manually keyed in) at the other end. Automation, gotta love it. One of the problems I encountered in the "old way" of doing things was that a process would export the file, attach the file to an email and pray that it made it out of the email server. If it didn't then we would manually monitor an email box where we sent the files (to ourselves) and if a file didn't go, we had to go manually build an email, find the file and attach it to the email and try again. Of course this new way gives me the opportunity to do things better (we hope!). One of the things I need to do is track the status of the file as it is exported and uploaded. My idea is to simply have processes that run. A file export process exports the file. A FTP process uploads the file. An Email process attaches files to emails and tries to send them. As processes handle files, they all need to log a status for the file. Rather than have code in each process that knows about table names, how to read / write the tables etc. I decided to build a set of classes that handles logging and reporting file statuses. There are two tables involved: atblFile FIL_ID Autonumber PK FIL_Spec The fully pathed file/name/extension of the file being processed FIL_Dte The date this record created FIL_Time The time this record created FIL_Cmpltd The date the processing successfully completed atblFileStatus FILST_ID Autonumber PK FILST_IDFIL The FK of the FILE record FILST_Status The text status of the file FILST_Dte The date this record created FILST_Time The time this record created I then built three classes: clsFileSupervisor, a supervisor class to manipulate the file records. clsFile, a file to store the data in a single record from atblFile clsFileStatus, a class to store each status record for a given file record. clsFileStatus has no processing at all, it just stores a status and has properties to return the pieces of the status record. clsFile is able to load the status records for the File PK, and instantiate clsFileStatus for each status, storing the classes in a collection. It is also able to create a new status record in the status table for the file it is processing. It also has properties for the file itself as well as a current status property and a property that can return the entire collection of statuses. clsFileSupervisor manages the process of building, reading and updating files and their statuses. It loads all the files that are not Cmpltd into classes and stores these file classes in a collection. It also can return a specific file class instance or the entire collection of file classes. Additionally, it monitors a message class. The message class has been discussed in various places in my previous ramblings, but is basically just a small class with two methods that can be called. Send(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) SendSimple(varMsg As Variant) These two methods do nothing more than raise an event Message() and MessageSimple() passing the parameters right back out. Thus any process can grab a pointer to the message class and send messages. This File Status Logger class can grab a pointer to the message class and sink the messages. Private WithEvents mclsMsg As dclsMsg Private Sub mclsMsg_Message(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, _ varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) ' 'messages sent using the more complex message() event will be scanned by the 'File Supervisor. If the To is "FileSuper" then the message will be processed here ' If varTo = "FileSuper" Then 'The Subject will be the File Spec 'The Msg will be the status 'Process the message, logging the filespec and status in the log table End If End Sub Messages have a To: which must be set to "FileSuper" in order for the file supervisor to handle the message. Any message sent on this message channel addressed To: FileSuper is assumed to have a Subject: of FileSpec (the path/name/extension of the file being processed) and a Message: of the status. Any such messages are grabbed by the supervisor class. If the filespec already exists in the table (and is loaded in the collection) then the existing clsFile logs the STATUS (the Message:) into atblFileStatus. If the FileSpec does not exist then a new File record (and class) is created and then the STATUS is logged (and a class created). The upshot of all this (and it's not THAT complicated), is that any process can log a file status simply by sending a message on the message channel. This eliminates having to build code in each class that manipulates a file to handle this status logging. The process could be implemented without the message class of course by loading and getting a pointer to the file logger, calling methods of that class directly. I just like the indirection allowed by the message class. In summary, I build processes that handle each step of manipulating a file, building the file and archiving it to disk, uploading it to the FTP server etc. Each process logs it's status via this set of File Status classes. Any process can also check the status of a file from this file supervisor to see whether a previous process is complete, whether a process failed etc. The "last process" class updates the Completed date in the File class to indicate that the file has successfully finished the entire handling process sequences, whatever that sequence may be. This should allow much more robust failure recovery, where any given process simply looks for files with a given current status and processes them, logging the updated status as they finish. Any failure allows the same process to retry later and if successful, log the process success in the file status log. The process classes will be responsible for sending email messages to myself and a "failure notify" list of any failed processes so that failures can be investigated. My intention with these rather long winded messages is to provide examples of how classes can be used to encapsulate processes and allow each such process to be self contained. Systems like this can be tested all by themselves without any of the surrounding processes since with a specified interface they don't depend on the other processes to be loaded and functioning. This allows testing as a "black box" that does what it is supposed to do. Poke it and see if it wiggles. Build file records, add statuses, read file properties, read file statuses and properties. These things should work precisely as designed regardless. Once this black box works, use it with the next black box to record the status of the file being processed by that black box. John W. Colby The DIS Database Guy -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Aug 26 19:09:25 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:09:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash Message-ID: We've had problems with TransferText (we use TransferSpreadsheet very rarely) in AXP mdbs on WinXP Pro and Win2k. It will run nicely for a while and then suddenly blow up entirely. It appears to be a Jet problem, since we're stress testing by handling the same file repeatedly, and it goes happily along importing for a while and then fails completely. The interesting thing is that once it fails, the only cure is to close the Access session and restart it because TransferText won't work even from the code window and you can't do an import from the UI either. We finally resorted to including an automatic restart capability in our apps because the fall over point differed between machines and each machine seemed to have a magic number of iterations before it crashed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: David Emerson [mailto:davide at dalyn.co.nz] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 4:48 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash Group, I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or DoCmd.TransferText commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in MSAccess.exe). Examples are - DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, strTableName, strFullName DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, False DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, "dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", strFullName DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, False The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with Office 97 and Office XP). I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on my machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program Files\Microsoft Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version 10.0.2627.1. Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park Wellington, New Zealand Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 Mobile 027-280-9348 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davide at dalyn.co.nz Thu Aug 26 19:24:49 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:24:49 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040827121721.00b97cb8@mail.dalyn.co.nz> I read with interest your recent thread on this one. Unfortunately in my case they are not even running once. I could rewrite my code so that I read/write in the files line by line (I have other code in the same database which does this successfully). However, it would make it much easier if I could get it to work again as before. David At 26/08/2004, you wrote: >We've had problems with TransferText (we use TransferSpreadsheet very >rarely) in AXP mdbs on WinXP Pro and Win2k. It will run nicely for a >while and then suddenly blow up entirely. It appears to be a Jet >problem, since we're stress testing by handling the same file >repeatedly, and it goes happily along importing for a while and then >fails completely. The interesting thing is that once it fails, the only >cure is to close the Access session and restart it because TransferText >won't work even from the code window and you can't do an import from the >UI either. We finally resorted to including an automatic restart >capability in our apps because the fall over point differed between >machines and each machine seemed to have a magic number of iterations >before it crashed. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Emerson [mailto:davide at dalyn.co.nz] >Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 4:48 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash > > >Group, > >I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 >Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or DoCmd.TransferText >commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in MSAccess.exe). > >Examples are - > >DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, >strTableName, >strFullName >DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, >False DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >"dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet >acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >"dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile >DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", >strFullName DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", >DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True >DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", >DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True >DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, >False > >The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with >Office >97 and Office XP). > >I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. > >Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of >the >olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on my >machine >is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program Files\Microsoft Access >Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version 10.0.2627.1. > >Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? > > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >Wellington, New Zealand >Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 >Mobile 027-280-9348 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 26 20:20:49 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:20:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001f01c48bd4$1a3205b0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Scott, you are correct. I will do that. Sorry, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marcus Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 2:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] File status logging classes John, Until I read the last paragraph, I started to wonder where the question was. Not being mean...but next time, let us know earlier in the email that the post is informative only. Scott -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Colby, John Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] File status logging classes The Insurance Call Center software I developed for DIS uses a fair amount of file manipulations. For example I export data to text files for a couple of different data sets to send off to the Insurer to update their system with the file statuses. These files start a claim at the insurer and then tell the insurer to pay the claim, how much and when. It is necessary to track these file exports pretty closely since if they don't go the Claimant doesn't get paid. I inherited code that did this process from the old system that I replaced and since it "mostly worked" I never rewrote it. The Insurer is moving to a new automated software that changes the way they do things so I am now converting that old system from using a word doc to hold the changes to using a fixed width field text file. The file will now be FTPd to a server instead of opened and read (manually keyed in) at the other end. Automation, gotta love it. One of the problems I encountered in the "old way" of doing things was that a process would export the file, attach the file to an email and pray that it made it out of the email server. If it didn't then we would manually monitor an email box where we sent the files (to ourselves) and if a file didn't go, we had to go manually build an email, find the file and attach it to the email and try again. Of course this new way gives me the opportunity to do things better (we hope!). One of the things I need to do is track the status of the file as it is exported and uploaded. My idea is to simply have processes that run. A file export process exports the file. A FTP process uploads the file. An Email process attaches files to emails and tries to send them. As processes handle files, they all need to log a status for the file. Rather than have code in each process that knows about table names, how to read / write the tables etc. I decided to build a set of classes that handles logging and reporting file statuses. There are two tables involved: atblFile FIL_ID Autonumber PK FIL_Spec The fully pathed file/name/extension of the file being processed FIL_Dte The date this record created FIL_Time The time this record created FIL_Cmpltd The date the processing successfully completed atblFileStatus FILST_ID Autonumber PK FILST_IDFIL The FK of the FILE record FILST_Status The text status of the file FILST_Dte The date this record created FILST_Time The time this record created I then built three classes: clsFileSupervisor, a supervisor class to manipulate the file records. clsFile, a file to store the data in a single record from atblFile clsFileStatus, a class to store each status record for a given file record. clsFileStatus has no processing at all, it just stores a status and has properties to return the pieces of the status record. clsFile is able to load the status records for the File PK, and instantiate clsFileStatus for each status, storing the classes in a collection. It is also able to create a new status record in the status table for the file it is processing. It also has properties for the file itself as well as a current status property and a property that can return the entire collection of statuses. clsFileSupervisor manages the process of building, reading and updating files and their statuses. It loads all the files that are not Cmpltd into classes and stores these file classes in a collection. It also can return a specific file class instance or the entire collection of file classes. Additionally, it monitors a message class. The message class has been discussed in various places in my previous ramblings, but is basically just a small class with two methods that can be called. Send(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) SendSimple(varMsg As Variant) These two methods do nothing more than raise an event Message() and MessageSimple() passing the parameters right back out. Thus any process can grab a pointer to the message class and send messages. This File Status Logger class can grab a pointer to the message class and sink the messages. Private WithEvents mclsMsg As dclsMsg Private Sub mclsMsg_Message(varFrom As Variant, varTo As Variant, _ varSubj As Variant, varMsg As Variant) ' 'messages sent using the more complex message() event will be scanned by the 'File Supervisor. If the To is "FileSuper" then the message will be processed here ' If varTo = "FileSuper" Then 'The Subject will be the File Spec 'The Msg will be the status 'Process the message, logging the filespec and status in the log table End If End Sub Messages have a To: which must be set to "FileSuper" in order for the file supervisor to handle the message. Any message sent on this message channel addressed To: FileSuper is assumed to have a Subject: of FileSpec (the path/name/extension of the file being processed) and a Message: of the status. Any such messages are grabbed by the supervisor class. If the filespec already exists in the table (and is loaded in the collection) then the existing clsFile logs the STATUS (the Message:) into atblFileStatus. If the FileSpec does not exist then a new File record (and class) is created and then the STATUS is logged (and a class created). The upshot of all this (and it's not THAT complicated), is that any process can log a file status simply by sending a message on the message channel. This eliminates having to build code in each class that manipulates a file to handle this status logging. The process could be implemented without the message class of course by loading and getting a pointer to the file logger, calling methods of that class directly. I just like the indirection allowed by the message class. In summary, I build processes that handle each step of manipulating a file, building the file and archiving it to disk, uploading it to the FTP server etc. Each process logs it's status via this set of File Status classes. Any process can also check the status of a file from this file supervisor to see whether a previous process is complete, whether a process failed etc. The "last process" class updates the Completed date in the File class to indicate that the file has successfully finished the entire handling process sequences, whatever that sequence may be. This should allow much more robust failure recovery, where any given process simply looks for files with a given current status and processes them, logging the updated status as they finish. Any failure allows the same process to retry later and if successful, log the process success in the file status log. The process classes will be responsible for sending email messages to myself and a "failure notify" list of any failed processes so that failures can be investigated. My intention with these rather long winded messages is to provide examples of how classes can be used to encapsulate processes and allow each such process to be self contained. Systems like this can be tested all by themselves without any of the surrounding processes since with a specified interface they don't depend on the other processes to be loaded and functioning. This allows testing as a "black box" that does what it is supposed to do. Poke it and see if it wiggles. Build file records, add statuses, read file properties, read file statuses and properties. These things should work precisely as designed regardless. Once this black box works, use it with the next black box to record the status of the file being processed by that black box. John W. Colby The DIS Database Guy From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Aug 26 20:22:09 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:22:09 -0400 Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002001c48bd4$4956a800$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Rotfl. Mysterious? Desirable? It's not exactly a product. And yes, you need flash controls to get at the pages. Is it your browser? Have you told it not to load flash controls perhaps? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Conscience got the better of me, John, and I visited your site again to find the mysterious yet desired file, C2DbFW3G. Maybe they are rendered unnavigable to your fans in Eurpope, but the navigation buttons are in a mutinous mood over here and won't respond. Thought you should know I haven't forgotten. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: Colby, John [mailto:JColby at dispec.com] Sent: 12 August 2004 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else ROTFL. I'm here. And yes, write a class, which you will then put in your framework. Use SysVars to turn it on and off. If you have any questions what I am referring to go to: www.colbyconsulting.com Click C2DbFW3G. Start reading the lectures on classes ... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Aug 26 20:59:42 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:59:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example In-Reply-To: <13252664.1093536157001.JavaMail.root@sniper11.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000601c48bd9$85e9e980$de1811d8@danwaters> Hello Chris! The CountCurrentUsers function is very new. In fact, its first publication was in the bottom half of my original email!! Sorry, I just had to do it! All the Best! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:00 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Sure, I'll hunt it down. It's on one of the zip disks in that stack over there...*pointing to a mountain of storage media*. CountCurrentUsers? Is that a native Access function or something you wrote yourself? I haven't heard of that one. But then again, I"m not as active in Access as I was a few years ago, so I may not be hip to the newest stuff. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: dwaters at usinternet.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 07:29:57 -0500 >Chris, > >The function called CountCurrentUsers will prevent the CompactBE >procedure >from running until the last user is exiting. > >I like your VB utility approach. My system also has a 'shutdown' >time >period during the night so that backup processes work well. This >would be a >good time for a scheduled compact. > >There's nothing retentive about it! I've had a 20 Mb BE grow to 80 >Mb - >this caused the IT dept. to start an investigation as to why they >were >having network problems. They weren't aware that they needed to >compact the >BE regularly. So, a method to automatically compact the BE avoids >the whole >issue. > >Chris - would it be possible for you to post the VB utility code, or >to make >it available to the folks on this list? > >Thanks! >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > >What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the >back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? > >Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a >database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients >usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. > >-C- > >---- Original Message ---- >From: dwaters at usinternet.com >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example >Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 > >>Hello to All! >> >>I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE >>would >>also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the >>BE to >>auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application >>and then >>closed. >> >>With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this >>code to >>compact the BE >>when the FE is closed by the last person. >> >>Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close >>option to >>true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be >>asked to >>enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their >>FE. >> >>You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit >>button is >>the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) >>When you >>push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before >>using the >>DoCmd.Quit method. >> >>I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will >>work for >>everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! >> >>Thanks! >>Dan Waters >>ProMation Systems, Inc. >> >>PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. >> >> >> >>'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' >> >>Option Compare Database >>Option Explicit >> >>Public Sub CompactBE() >>On Error GoTo EH >> >> Dim stgPath As String >> Dim blnExclusive As Boolean >> Dim appAccess As Access.Application >> Dim varReturn As Variant >> >> If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then >> Exit Sub >> End If >> >> stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" >> '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting >> blnExclusive = True >> >> Set appAccess = New Access.Application >> >> varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") >> >> appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive >> '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens >>quickly! >> appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase >> appAccess.Quit >> >> varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) >> >> Exit Sub >> >>EH: >> Application.Echo True >> Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", >>"CompactBE") >> >>End Sub >> >>Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer >>On Error GoTo EH >> >> Dim con As New ADODB.Connection >> Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset >> Dim stgAccessVersion As String >> Dim intUserCount As Integer >> Dim stgUserName As String >> >> stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) >> >> '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema >>rowset _ >> in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ >> reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ >> listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets >> >> Select Case stgAccessVersion >> Case "9.0" >> '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access >>2000 >> con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data >>Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" >> Case "10.0" >> '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >>2002 or >>2003 >> Set con = CurrentProject.Connection >> Case "11.0" >> '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access >>2002 or >>2003 >> Set con = CurrentProject.Connection >> End Select >> >> Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , >>"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") >> >> If rst.EOF = False Then >> Do While rst.EOF = False >> stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, >>rst.Fields(1), >>Chr(0)) - 1) >> If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then >> intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 >> End If >> rst.MoveNext >> Loop >> CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount >> Else >> CountCurrentUsers = 0 >> End If >> >> rst.Close >> Set rst = Nothing >> >> Exit Function >> >>EH: >> Application.Echo True >> Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count >Current >>Users", "CountCurrentUsers") >> >>End Function >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >Respectfully, > >Christopher Hawkins >Managing Developer >http://www.christopherhawkins.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Respectfully, Christopher Hawkins Managing Developer http://www.christopherhawkins.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Thu Aug 26 22:09:35 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 23:09:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Gmail Invite (d) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <034e01c48be3$4852a7b0$6601a8c0@rock> I made this one up, so chances are you won't get any duplicates.... As the hooker working a sushi bar said, "This rubber tastes like octopus." A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Gmail Invite (d) I am giving away 1 Gmail Invite, first to respond off list w/ a joke gets it :) -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Fri Aug 27 02:52:31 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:52:31 +0100 Subject: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Message-ID: Yes, that's probably it. The firewall here was built to withstand a bush invasion. Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 27 August 2004 02:22 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: Using classes - was RE: [AccessD] Instant If Then Else Rotfl. Mysterious? Desirable? It's not exactly a product. And yes, --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri Aug 27 04:44:44 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:44:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - Need Outlook Guru Message-ID: <20040827094442.5864F252DD5@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Great news Darren. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - Need Outlook Guru Date: 26/08/04 02:11 > > Thanks Andy > Yes I did get it working > And yes I looped throuh the Appointments collection till I found > A matching EntryID > > Many thanks > > BTW work has firmed up a bit - Management have stopped the redundancy talks > For at least 1 year (maybe 2) woo hoo > > Have a great day > > Darren > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Wednesday, 25 August 2004 5:30 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - Need Outlook > Guru > > > Darren > > Just thrashing ideas but looking at the Outlook Help they construct it like > this: > > Set myAppt = objFolder.Items.Find("[EntryID] = > ""00000000B5860CB6D252A64BB055F39CD7DABCC824332000""") > > Have you tried that? Of course you have. > > If you can't get Find working would it be worth trying a For Each loop > through the Items collection testing for your EntryId? Long way round but > might get you moving. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darren DICK > > Sent: 25 August 2004 04:06 > > To: AccessD > > Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Deleteing an Outlook appointment - > > Need Outlook Guru > > > > > > Hi all > > Need Outlook guru assistance > > I have managed to create an Outlook Calendar appointment from > > access - excellent, and I am capturing the calendar item's > > Unique ID called EntryID > > > > Now does anyone know how I can delete the same calendar item > > using the EntryID The code below NEARLY works, but it dies on > > the line about finding a rec > > Based on the EntryID > > I have scoured the net for examples to delete calendar items > > and just can't find any. Another 2 days wasted <sigh> > > > > Many thanks in advance > > > > Darren > > > > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > > """""""""""""" > > Function somenewfunction() > > > > Dim ol As Outlook.Application > > Dim olns As Outlook.NameSpace > > Dim objFolder As Outlook.MAPIFolder > > Dim AllAppts As Outlook.Items > > Dim myAppt As Outlook.AppointmentItem > > > > > > Set ol = New Outlook.Application > > Set olns = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI") > > Set objFolder = olns.GetDefaultFolder(olFolderCalendar) > > Set AllAppts = objFolder.Items > > Set myAppt = AllAppts.Find("[EntryID] = _ > > ""00000000B5860CB6D252A64BB055F39CD7DABCC824332000""") > > > > MsgBox myAppt.Subject > > > > End Function > > """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > > """"""""""""" > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 27 09:50:33 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:50:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <05C61C52D7CAD211A7830008C7DF6F1079BDD3@DISABILITYINS01> Message-ID: <000b01c48c45$382be790$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed things up I am guessing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 27 10:21:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:21:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <000b01c48c45$382be790$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> References: <000b01c48c45$382be790$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <923281527.20040827172132@cactus.dk> Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client wants > to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed things up I > am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Aug 27 10:38:40 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:38:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <923281527.20040827172132@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000c01c48c4b$f0ad94c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Gustav, I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > things up I am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kwilliam at ashlandnet.com Fri Aug 27 10:39:00 2004 From: kwilliam at ashlandnet.com (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:39:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? In-Reply-To: <923281527.20040827172132@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000101c48c4b$f98f9930$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Aug 27 10:54:18 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:54:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE9B@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Thanks, but no joy. I think what I am attempting to do is not possible. The workaround is to reopen the recordset for each change in the parameter. Thanks anyway Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query On 26 Aug 2004 at 14:06, Hale, Jim wrote: > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(5)) = strPlGroup > > Set recset(7) = qdfTemp(7).OpenRecordset() > > This works fine. However, I need to change parameter(4) into something like > the following > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales or misc" Try "'sales' or 'query'" ie put the individual items in single quotes.-- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 27 11:13:38 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:13:38 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Remote Desktop Connection Client 1.0.2 for Mac OS X Message-ID: <6826407592.20040827181338@cactus.dk> Hi all Anyone having experiences with this, running Access or anything else? http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads.aspx?pid=download&location=/mac/DOWNLOAD/MISC/RDC.xml&secid=80&ssid=9&flgnosysreq=False If connecting to a Terminal Server what are the licensing for this for, say, 10 users? What that be a Windows 2003 server with 10 CALs? /gustav From JHewson at karta.com Fri Aug 27 11:16:18 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:16:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E280@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Have you tried: qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" OR "misc" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Thanks, but no joy. I think what I am attempting to do is not possible. The workaround is to reopen the recordset for each change in the parameter. Thanks anyway Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query On 26 Aug 2004 at 14:06, Hale, Jim wrote: > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(5)) = strPlGroup > > Set recset(7) = qdfTemp(7).OpenRecordset() > > This works fine. However, I need to change parameter(4) into something like > the following > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales or misc" Try "'sales' or 'query'" ie put the individual items in single quotes.-- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Aug 27 11:28:49 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:28:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F02D08857@xlivmbx21.aig.com> If this table has a sequentially numbered Identity field (if that's the correct name for the SQL version of an AutoNumber) then just run a select query with the condition (Mod 100 = 0) on the Identity field. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record > > Gustav, > > I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We > need > to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. > Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't > work > at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull > every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would > give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't > be lightning fast but at least doable. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record > > > Hi John > > > > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > > things up I am guessing. > > To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? > > If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 27 11:35:59 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:35:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE9B@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> References: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE9B@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <027747889.20040827183559@cactus.dk> Hi Jim If you meant that the parameter value could be either "sales" or "misc", you are right. You need two parameters to do that - and it wouldn't look nice. Your solution is what I would choose. /gustav > Thanks, but no joy. I think what I am attempting to do is not possible. The > workaround is to reopen the recordset for each change in the parameter. > Thanks anyway > Jim Hale > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 5:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query > On 26 Aug 2004 at 14:06, Hale, Jim wrote: >> qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" >> qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(5)) = strPlGroup >> >> Set recset(7) = qdfTemp(7).OpenRecordset() >> >> This works fine. However, I need to change parameter(4) into something like >> the following >> qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales or misc" > Try "'sales' or 'query'" > ie put the individual items in single quotes.-- > Stuart From chizotz at mchsi.com Fri Aug 27 11:38:54 2004 From: chizotz at mchsi.com (chizotz at mchsi.com) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:38:54 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record Message-ID: <082720041638.2957.5bbb@mchsi.com> John, I have to do this every year. The newspaper industry has a regulatory agency called ABC that requires Nth Factor sampling for audit purposes. They hand you a requirement such as "start with subscriber 112 and give me every 96th subscriber after that". This is from an unordered set of subscriber data, to end up with a random sample. The numbers they hand you are based on your total number of subscribers and will theoretically result in a random sample of subscribers sufficiently large enough to represent the entire set. Your client may want this for a similar reason. I'm sure you've already considered this but... It may not be the "best" approach, but I just create a temp table and then loop through the unordered data to the start row and save that and every Nth row after that to the temp table. It's straightforward and easy to maintain, and in my case it's fast enough to not be too concerned with efficiency (once a year, who cares how long it takes to run as long as it isn't for days or something). That may not be workable for your case though, if they want this on demand and to run very quickly and there are a large number of records. Ron > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client wants > to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed things up I > am guessing. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 27 11:54:08 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:54:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040827165403.HYNT1789.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I'm having an awful time getting it installed. For some reason, I get a partial install -- no management tools. I've tried every possible install trick I can think of. Anyone else had this problem? Susan H. Impressive.... :-) I have been holding back waiting for more comment and detail. The information supplied at the Microsoft site never seems to fully answer the questions as it is created by a sales team and not technical developers. Now I wonder if you can create the initial DB in SQL2000 or 2003, export the design and are there sufficient management tools to allow importing that design into SQL Server Express? From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 27 12:20:26 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:20:26 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: <20040827165403.HYNT1789.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040827165403.HYNT1789.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <10030415525.20040827192026@cactus.dk> Hi Susan There are no management tools - yet. /gustav > I'm having an awful time getting it installed. For some reason, I get a > partial install -- no management tools. I've tried every possible install > trick I can think of. From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 27 12:22:26 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:22:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <000c01c48c4b$f0ad94c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: John, While not returning every 100th record, this will return unique records. The NEWID() function randomly sorts the input table INSERT INTO tmpCustomer (CustKey) SELECT CustomerID FROM Customers WHERE CustomerID IN (SELECT TOP 650000 CustomerID FROM Customers ORDER BY NEWID()) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Gustav, I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > things up I am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 27 12:38:46 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:38:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server 2005 Express: No query governor In-Reply-To: <10030415525.20040827192026@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040827173842.CXYI1758.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I'm talking about SQL Computer Manager. I can get sqlcmd up, but as soon as I type, it closes. But it's fixed now -- no clue. I uninstalled and then reinstalled using Windows Add/Remove instead of the install wizard that comes with the exe and now it's there. Just odd -- I've worked with this for over a week. ;( Susan H. Hi Susan There are no management tools - yet. From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Aug 27 12:46:54 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:46:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <923281527.20040827172132@cactus.dk> References: <000b01c48c45$382be790$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> <923281527.20040827172132@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <7132003067.20040827194654@cactus.dk> Hi John OK, that's a lot or records. You could use RAND() to pick the sample. It would require one loop through the table not even selecting on the primary index. Create an expression with RAND() returning numbers between 1 and 100. Select on this equal any value (from 1 to 100, it doesn't matter per definition) and you will have a recordset of count/100 records. I can't imagine any way to do this faster. /gustav >> Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client wants >> to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed things up I >> am guessing. > To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? > If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. From kwilliam at ashlandnet.com Fri Aug 27 12:45:17 2004 From: kwilliam at ashlandnet.com (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:45:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Message-ID: <000c01c48c5d$9dd67020$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> 3rd Attempt to post this...my posts to this list are not coming through.... Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 From adtp at touchtelindia.net Fri Aug 27 13:04:49 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:34:49 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record References: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F02D08857@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <00e801c48c60$85a04a00$d81865cb@winxp> If there are gaps in the sequential values pertaining to the primary key field, the following could be considered (T_Data is the name of table and ID is the name of primary key). SELECT T_Data.* FROM T_Data WHERE (Select Count(*) From T_Data T1 Where T1.ID <= T_Data.ID) Mod 100 = 0; A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Heenan, Lambert To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' ; 'John W. Colby' Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 21:58 Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record If this table has a sequentially numbered Identity field (if that's the correct name for the SQL version of an AutoNumber) then just run a select query with the condition (Mod 100 = 0) on the Identity field. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record > > Gustav, > > I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We > need > to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. > Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't > work > at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull > every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would > give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't > be lightning fast but at least doable. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record > > > Hi John > > > > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > > things up I am guessing. > > To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? > > If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. > > /gustav From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Aug 27 13:21:00 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:21:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FE9D@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Thanks Gustav Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Hi Jim If you meant that the parameter value could be either "sales" or "misc", you are right. You need two parameters to do that - and it wouldn't look nice. Your solution is what I would choose. /gustav > Thanks, but no joy. I think what I am attempting to do is not possible. The > workaround is to reopen the recordset for each change in the parameter. > Thanks anyway > Jim Hale > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 5:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query > On 26 Aug 2004 at 14:06, Hale, Jim wrote: >> qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" >> qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(5)) = strPlGroup >> >> Set recset(7) = qdfTemp(7).OpenRecordset() >> >> This works fine. However, I need to change parameter(4) into something like >> the following >> qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales or misc" > Try "'sales' or 'query'" > ie put the individual items in single quotes.-- > Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Aug 27 14:22:00 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:22:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040827112819.00b2c010@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <412F89D8.3010006@shaw.ca> Well it looks like different Office XP service packs on the machines, XP SP-3 on your development machine. Are you doing a full new runtime install on the server, or just passing over the adp file to the server with changes.? This could lead to problems. David Emerson wrote: > Group, > > I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 > Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or > DoCmd.TransferText commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in > MSAccess.exe). > > Examples are - > > DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, > strTableName, strFullName > DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", > strFullName, False > DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, > "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True > DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, > "dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile > DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", > strFullName > DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", > DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True > DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", > DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True > DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, > False > > The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with > Office 97 and Office XP). > > I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. > > Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of > the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on my > machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program > Files\Microsoft Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version > 10.0.2627.1. > > Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park > Wellington, New Zealand > Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 > Mobile 027-280-9348 -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From kwilliam at ashlandnet.com Fri Aug 27 14:29:55 2004 From: kwilliam at ashlandnet.com (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:29:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? In-Reply-To: <000c01c48c5d$9dd67020$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Message-ID: <001201c48c6c$3be7a550$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Thump!! Thump!! Thump!! Thump!! (Banging head on desk)......arrrrrfffggghghghghg!!! Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? 3rd Attempt to post this...my posts to this list are not coming through.... Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Aug 27 14:58:43 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:58:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040827112819.00b2c010@mail.dalyn.co.nz> <412F89D8.3010006@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <412F9273.7090407@shaw.ca> Oh and one other thing to check that you have installed Overview of Office XP Service Pack 3 for Access 2002 Runtime. Note this is in addition to normal SP3 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;834693&Product=acc MartyConnelly wrote: > Well it looks like different Office XP service packs on the machines, > XP SP-3 on your development machine. > Are you doing a full new runtime install on the server, or just > passing over the adp file to the server with changes.? > This could lead to problems. > > David Emerson wrote: > >> Group, >> >> I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 >> Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or >> DoCmd.TransferText commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in >> MSAccess.exe). >> >> Examples are - >> >> DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, >> strTableName, strFullName >> DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", >> strFullName, False >> DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >> "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True >> DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >> "dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile >> DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", >> strFullName >> DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", >> DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True >> DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", >> DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True >> DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", >> strFullName, False >> >> The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with >> Office 97 and Office XP). >> >> I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. >> >> Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of >> the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on >> my machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program >> Files\Microsoft Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version >> 10.0.2627.1. >> >> Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? >> >> >> Regards >> >> David Emerson >> Dalyn Software Ltd >> 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >> Wellington, New Zealand >> Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 >> Mobile 027-280-9348 > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Fri Aug 27 15:07:34 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:07:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? References: <001201c48c6c$3be7a550$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Message-ID: <015e01c48c71$7e9825f0$6401a8c0@default> > Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax > table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? > > I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are > from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty > table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current > user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source > for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I > can't understand why. Any ideas??? > > Dim db As Database > Dim stDocName As String > Dim mytable2 As Recordset > Dim sqlstring As String > Dim recSource As String > Set db = CurrentDb > DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" > Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) Keith, No idea why, but two things you can try: 1) After DoCmd.CopyObject, try db.TableDefs.Refresh 2) Make sqlString = "Select * From tempfax_" & CurrentUser & chr(34) and use db.OpenRecordset(sqlString) ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Aug 27 15:12:21 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:12:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB30F@main2.marlow.com> Try replacing this line: Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser, dbOpenTable) See if that makes a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 2:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Thump!! Thump!! Thump!! Thump!! (Banging head on desk)......arrrrrfffggghghghghg!!! Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? 3rd Attempt to post this...my posts to this list are not coming through.... Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kwilliam at ashlandnet.com Fri Aug 27 15:30:16 2004 From: kwilliam at ashlandnet.com (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:30:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB30F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001301c48c74$a9da5690$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> This gives me an invalid option error. :( Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 4:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Try replacing this line: Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser, dbOpenTable) See if that makes a difference. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 2:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Thump!! Thump!! Thump!! Thump!! (Banging head on desk)......arrrrrfffggghghghghg!!! Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? 3rd Attempt to post this...my posts to this list are not coming through.... Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kwilliam at ashlandnet.com Fri Aug 27 15:32:14 2004 From: kwilliam at ashlandnet.com (Keith Williamson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:32:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? In-Reply-To: <015e01c48c71$7e9825f0$6401a8c0@default> Message-ID: <001401c48c74$f0b930e0$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Your first comment didn't make a difference. The 2nd one is code that runs after the problem...so I haven't tried that yet. In fact, I've got those lines as comments, at the moment.... Thump, thump, thump, crunch {ouch....that was my nose}. Lol :) Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 4:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? > Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the > tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? > > I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset > "mytable2" are > from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an > empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & > current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for > the data source > for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both > tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? > > Dim db As Database > Dim stDocName As String > Dim mytable2 As Recordset > Dim sqlstring As String > Dim recSource As String > Set db = CurrentDb > DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set > mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) Keith, No idea why, but two things you can try: 1) After DoCmd.CopyObject, try db.TableDefs.Refresh 2) Make sqlString = "Select * From tempfax_" & CurrentUser & chr(34) and use db.OpenRecordset(sqlString) ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Fri Aug 27 16:37:11 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:37:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? In-Reply-To: <000101c48c4b$f98f9930$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Message-ID: <000501c48c7e$02ec6030$cb0ba845@hargrove.internal> Could it be because the first thing you do is copy whatever is in (tempfax_ & currentuser) to tblfax on the line... DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" You then add the new record but the next time this runs, the whole of (tempfax_ & currentuser) will get copied to tblfax. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Aug 27 17:38:13 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:38:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677217FEA0@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Yes, that gives me a type mismatch Jim -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hewson [mailto:JHewson at karta.com] Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Have you tried: qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" OR "misc" -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query Thanks, but no joy. I think what I am attempting to do is not possible. The workaround is to reopen the recordset for each change in the parameter. Thanks anyway Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Correct syntax for parameter query On 26 Aug 2004 at 14:06, Hale, Jim wrote: > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales" > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(5)) = strPlGroup > > Set recset(7) = qdfTemp(7).OpenRecordset() > > This works fine. However, I need to change parameter(4) into something like > the following > qdfTemp(7).Parameters(strParameters(4)) = "sales or misc" Try "'sales' or 'query'" ie put the individual items in single quotes.-- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Aug 27 19:45:33 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:45:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <000c01c48c4b$f0ad94c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: Hi John: Given the tables auto-number field is named ID, you could try a simplier: select * from MyGreatBigTable where (cast(id as int) % 100) = 0 HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Gustav, I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > things up I am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Aug 27 19:24:28 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:24:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <000c01c48c4b$f0ad94c0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: Hi John: This piece of code is untested but if you have an id field in your database the following SQL script will pull every 100th record: SELECT * FROM MyVeryBigTable WHERE (CAST(ID AS numeric) / 100 = CAST(ID AS int) / 100) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Gustav, I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > things up I am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davide at dalyn.co.nz Fri Aug 27 22:07:19 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:07:19 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash In-Reply-To: <412F9273.7090407@shaw.ca> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040827112819.00b2c010@mail.dalyn.co.nz> <412F89D8.3010006@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040828150357.00b87b60@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks Marty, Will test that out on Monday. David At 27/08/2004, you wrote: >Oh and one other thing to check that you have installed >Overview of Office XP Service Pack 3 for Access 2002 Runtime. Note this is >in addition to normal SP3 >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;834693&Product=acc > >MartyConnelly wrote: > >>Well it looks like different Office XP service packs on the machines, XP >>SP-3 on your development machine. >>Are you doing a full new runtime install on the server, or just passing >>over the adp file to the server with changes.? >>This could lead to problems. >> >>David Emerson wrote: >> >>>Group, >>> >>>I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 >>>Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or DoCmd.TransferText >>>commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in MSAccess.exe). >>> >>>Examples are - >>> >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, >>>strTableName, strFullName >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, >>>False >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >>>"dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >>>"dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", >>>strFullName >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True >>>DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, False >>> >>>The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with >>>Office 97 and Office XP). >>> >>>I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. >>> >>>Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of >>>the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on my >>>machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program Files\Microsoft >>>Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version 10.0.2627.1. >>> >>>Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? >>> >>> >>>Regards >>> >>>David Emerson >>>Dalyn Software Ltd >>>25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >>>Wellington, New Zealand >>>Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 >>>Mobile 027-280-9348 >> >> > >-- >Marty Connelly >Victoria, B.C. >Canada > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sat Aug 28 00:18:33 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:48:33 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? References: <000101c48c4b$f98f9930$64aba8c0@ashlandnet.com> Message-ID: <00ec01c48cbe$adc350f0$f21865cb@winxp> Keith, On a trial conducted at this end (Access XP on Win XP), your code is found to work OK. Only the temporary table (tempfax_Admin) is getting populated, not the original blank table (tblfax). If still stuck up, you might like to send a zipped extract of the pruned down file, containing the problem forms, table & code, for further examination. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Williamson To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 21:09 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 From Lambert.Heenan at aig.com Thu Aug 26 08:51:08 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at aig.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:51:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F02D08841@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Dan, I'm curious to know what "network problems" were laid at the door of Access just because the BE grew to 80 Mb (not a particularly huge file). Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:30 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Chris, > > The function called CountCurrentUsers will prevent the CompactBE procedure > from running until the last user is exiting. > > I like your VB utility approach. My system also has a 'shutdown' time > period during the night so that backup processes work well. This would be > a > good time for a scheduled compact. > > There's nothing retentive about it! I've had a 20 Mb BE grow to 80 Mb - > this caused the IT dept. to start an investigation as to why they were > having network problems. They weren't aware that they needed to compact > the > BE regularly. So, a method to automatically compact the BE avoids the > whole > issue. > > Chris - would it be possible for you to post the VB utility code, or to > make > it available to the folks on this list? > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher > Hawkins > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the > back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? > > Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a > database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients > usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. > > -C- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: dwaters at usinternet.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 > > >Hello to All! > > > >I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE > >would > >also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the > >BE to > >auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application > >and then > >closed. > > > >With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this > >code to > >compact the BE > >when the FE is closed by the last person. > > > >Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close > >option to > >true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be > >asked to > >enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their > >FE. > > > >You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit > >button is > >the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) > >When you > >push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before > >using the > >DoCmd.Quit method. > > > >I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will > >work for > >everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! > > > >Thanks! > >Dan Waters > >ProMation Systems, Inc. > > > >PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. > > > > > > > >'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' > > > >Option Compare Database > >Option Explicit > > > >Public Sub CompactBE() > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > Dim stgPath As String > > Dim blnExclusive As Boolean > > Dim appAccess As Access.Application > > Dim varReturn As Variant > > > > If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then > > Exit Sub > > End If > > > > stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" > > '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting > > blnExclusive = True > > > > Set appAccess = New Access.Application > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") > > > > appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive > > '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens > >quickly! > > appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase > > appAccess.Quit > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) > > > > Exit Sub > > > >EH: > > Application.Echo True > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", > >"CompactBE") > > > >End Sub > > > >Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > Dim con As New ADODB.Connection > > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > > Dim stgAccessVersion As String > > Dim intUserCount As Integer > > Dim stgUserName As String > > > > stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) > > > > '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema > >rowset _ > > in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ > > reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ > > listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets > > > > Select Case stgAccessVersion > > Case "9.0" > > '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access > >2000 > > con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data > >Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" > > Case "10.0" > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > >2002 or > >2003 > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > Case "11.0" > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > >2002 or > >2003 > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > End Select > > > > Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , > >"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") > > > > If rst.EOF = False Then > > Do While rst.EOF = False > > stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, > >rst.Fields(1), > >Chr(0)) - 1) > > If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then > > intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 > > End If > > rst.MoveNext > > Loop > > CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount > > Else > > CountCurrentUsers = 0 > > End If > > > > rst.Close > > Set rst = Nothing > > > > Exit Function > > > >EH: > > Application.Echo True > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current > >Users", "CountCurrentUsers") > > > >End Function > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > Respectfully, > > Christopher Hawkins > Managing Developer > http://www.christopherhawkins.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Aug 28 05:16:54 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:16:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Info Interesting use of InfoPath In-Reply-To: <1499304128.20040307140906@cactus.dk> References: <3F7AF33E.14003.19E6DAF@localhost> <3F7A7578.9000007@shaw.ca> <1499304128.20040307140906@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <11412426127.20040828121654@cactus.dk> Hi all Just noticed this MS ressource: The InfoPath 2003 Software Development Kit (SDK) download contains sample forms, tools, and documentation to assist with Microsoft Office InfoPath 2003 and InfoPath 2003 Service Pack 1 form development and deployment. http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=351F0616-93AA-4FE8-9238-D702F1BFBAB4&displaylang=en The Microsoft Office InfoPath 2003 Software Development Kit (SDK) is designed for solution providers (SPs), value-added resellers (VARs), and other developers who are interested in developing solutions with InfoPath 2003 and InfoPath 2003 Service Pack 1. The InfoPath SDK includes documentation and samples that demonstrate development techniques for customizing and implementing InfoPath features, including integration with Microsoft Office Access 2003, Microsoft Office Word 2003, Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services, Microsoft BizTalk Server, Microsoft SQL Server, XML Web Services, Component Object Model (COM) components, and ActiveX Data Objects (ADO). /gustav > Hi Marty et all > Also noted this from Mike Gunderloy, classifying it more as an end > user tool: > "InfoPath is a tool that lets end users create XML files matching a > particular schema without ever seeing an angle bracket." > http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=8979 > /gustav >> If you were wondering about uses for InfoPath. >> Rather than use Access to link to a webservice. This method with >> InfoPath allows a user to quickly link to a webservice via XML with no >> coding. The webservice could be a ASP.Net hook to an old Cobol legacy >> app to edit or add data.. >> Dynamically Data-bind in InfoPath By Thiru Thangarathinam >> http://www.developer.com/net/article.php/3082431 From artful at rogers.com Sat Aug 28 05:28:19 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 06:28:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms Message-ID: <003501c48ce9$bdca8010$6501a8c0@rock> 1. I built a datasheet form from a crosstab... And no simple crosstab either, it's actually 28 crosstabs UNIONed. No problem insofar as I'm dealing with the current data. The problem will emerge when the users add new rows to the data source, which will result in additional columns that won't be dealt with in the datasheet form. So the question is, can I programmatically generate a datasheet form based on the underlying query, and if so how so? Just to be clear, the queries will generate columns from 1/1/2003 to as far as the users care to go. I need to determine the number of columns in the current form, and if that differs from the number of columns delivered by the underlying query, then programmatically add enough columns to handle it gracefully. 2. Given such a form with, say, 50 columns, all of which represent successive month-end-dates (i.e. 2/29/2004), how can I open the form and move the cursor to the month corresponding to Now()? If I can just get this to work the way I see it on the back of my eyelids, the users are going to have spiritual orgasms :) TIA, Arthur From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 28 06:56:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 07:56:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VLDBs, the saga - Ramblings only In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c48cf6$06589a90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> I have been working on getting a rather large database into SQL Server. This thing is ~65 million names plus demographics info and will be used for bulk mailing analysis. I have been struggling for weeks to make this happen. Having no experience with a database this big, I had no idea how big the final db would be. I tried to get it in to a 160g drive but it rapidly became obvious that wouldn't hold it. I then purchased two 200g drives and used Raid0 to make a big 400 g drive. I thought I turned on compression but after getting well into the extraction process I discovered this wasn't the case. I then started trying to figure out how to get the drive compressed. Long story short, a NTFS drive can be compressed, even a raid array such as this, however... There is a control that allows you to select the sector size. I had selected the "compress" check box but then selected a sector size of 64K. As I started investigating why the drive wasn't compressed it turns out that only sector sizes of 512 to 4K bytes allow compression. Anything larger causes the "compress drive" check box to gray out and the drive ends up uncompressed. By this time I had already spent several days extracting zipped files of data and BCPing them into SQL Server so I had a MDF file of over 300gb and no place to put it! Sigh. Out of desperation I decided to try zipping the database file. I started it PK zipping last night onto an empty 160g partition. This morning I had a 10gb zipped file that supposedly contains the MDF file! I then deleted the partition on the 400gb Raid array and started playing with the compression / block size which is when I discovered the >4K sector size gotcha. I set the sector size to 4K and quick formatted, then started unzipping the MDF file to the (compressed) 400gb raid array. We shall see. The unzip is not finished, in fact has several hours to go yet. If this works I will celebrate. This whole project has been a challenge. It looks like the database will be around 600g for JUST the data, never mind any indexes. I simply don't have the money to build a raid 5 array to up the uncompressed drive size. Even if I did, IDE drives larger than 250gb are expensive and AFAICT only available in 5200 RPM. Plus the overhead of Raid5 is "One Drive" which means I'd need (4) 300g drives to build a 900g usable space raid5 array. Raid1 (which I am currently using) tops out at 600g using (2) 300g drives (uncompressed). So far my (2) drive Raid1 array using 200g drives has cost me $240 plus a controller I already had. A Raid5 solution using 300g drives would cost about $1200 just for the new controller and 4 drives! With any luck, given the massive compression PKZip managed to attain, I will be able to shoehorn the 600g. Update 8-( As I write this I just got a "delayed write failed" message from Windows saying it lost data trying to write to the disk. I have tried to turn off write caching but can't seem to find the magic button to cause Windows to quit using "Delayed write". BIG sigh! If I can't get the db back out of the zip file I will be facing a weekend of "starting from scratch" on getting the data out of the raw text files and back in to SQL Server! And I thought this would be fairly easy. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Aug 28 07:47:38 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 14:47:38 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] VLDBs, the saga - Ramblings only In-Reply-To: <000001c48cf6$06589a90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> References: <000001c48cf6$06589a90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <1337932636.20040828144738@cactus.dk> Hi John Bad news: No database engine likes a compressed partition as storage and some do not run reliably at all on such, including SQL Server: http://www.windowsecurity.com/articles/Secure-Installation-Microsoft-SQL-Server-2000.html A reminder: the SQL data must not be compressed by the NTFS file system because this may cause a serious drop in efficiency or even faults when performing the queries. If you have chosen a compressed partition, you should halt the SQL service right after the installation and decompress the data-containing directory /gustav > .. I then started trying to figure out how to get the drive compressed. From dwaters at usinternet.com Sat Aug 28 08:42:43 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 08:42:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example In-Reply-To: <15993943.1093674146409.JavaMail.root@sniper4.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <000001c48d04$e56f2ab0$de1811d8@danwaters> Lambert, The network was in the process of being slowly upgraded to modern switches (from 10 gbit to 100 gbit). The 80 Mb file was being sent as a single piece, not broken into separate pieces. As a result, some of the printers were dropping off-line. I was told that if the printers could not make contact with the network within 0.25 seconds, then the printer would drop off-line automatically. The 80 Mb file would take longer than that to get across the network. Actually - my memory has finally come back to me. It was actually a FE that had not been decompiled and recompiled that had grown to 80 Mb, and was later reduced to 20 Mb. 20 Mb did not cause the printers to drop off-line. This was the story I got, and I believe that the IT folks who told me this also believed it. Does this sound plausible? And you're right - this was something of an effort to lay the problems at the door of Access, when it was really the IT Access developer who had forgotten to decompile and recompile. Thanks, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Dan Waters' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example Dan, I'm curious to know what "network problems" were laid at the door of Access just because the BE grew to 80 Mb (not a particularly huge file). Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:30 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > Chris, > > The function called CountCurrentUsers will prevent the CompactBE procedure > from running until the last user is exiting. > > I like your VB utility approach. My system also has a 'shutdown' time > period during the night so that backup processes work well. This would be > a > good time for a scheduled compact. > > There's nothing retentive about it! I've had a 20 Mb BE grow to 80 Mb - > this caused the IT dept. to start an investigation as to why they were > having network problems. They weren't aware that they needed to compact > the > BE regularly. So, a method to automatically compact the BE avoids the > whole > issue. > > Chris - would it be possible for you to post the VB utility code, or to > make > it available to the folks on this list? > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher > Hawkins > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:14 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > > What do you do with multi-user apps? You don't want ot compabt the > back-end while othr users have an open connection, do you? > > Maybe I'm retentive, but I wrote a VB utility that compacts a > database. It runs as a scheduled service on the server. My clients > usually have it set to fire at midnight or thereabouts. > > -C- > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: dwaters at usinternet.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compact BE on Close - An Example > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:12:27 -0500 > > >Hello to All! > > > >I've believed for a while that setting Compact On Close for the FE > >would > >also compact the BE. But a little testing disproved that. For the > >BE to > >auto-compact, it must actually be opened by the Access application > >and then > >closed. > > > >With some help from Stephen Bond, I was able to put together this > >code to > >compact the BE > >when the FE is closed by the last person. > > > >Two things about the BE: First - you must set its Compact On Close > >option to > >true. Second - avoid User Security on the BE or your users will be > >asked to > >enter their user name and password as they are shutting down their > >FE. > > > >You should be controlling the FE so that pushing an Exit or Quit > >button is > >the only way the FE can be closed. (Discussed in previous posts.) > >When you > >push that button, call the CompactBE procedure immediately before > >using the > >DoCmd.Quit method. > > > >I've used this successfully at one customer site. I hope this will > >work for > >everyone - if you see any problems with this then speak up! > > > >Thanks! > >Dan Waters > >ProMation Systems, Inc. > > > >PS - I'm going to try to see if this is publishable information. > > > > > > > >'-- Paste the following into a Standard Module titled 'Compact BE' > > > >Option Compare Database > >Option Explicit > > > >Public Sub CompactBE() > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > Dim stgPath As String > > Dim blnExclusive As Boolean > > Dim appAccess As Access.Application > > Dim varReturn As Variant > > > > If CountCurrentUsers > 1 Then > > Exit Sub > > End If > > > > stgPath = "\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\BackEnd\BE.mdb" > > '-- Keep users out while the BE is compacting > > blnExclusive = True > > > > Set appAccess = New Access.Application > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdSetStatus, "Compacting BE") > > > > appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPath, blnExclusive > > '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. And it happens > >quickly! > > appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase > > appAccess.Quit > > > > varReturn = SysCmd(acSysCmdClearStatus) > > > > Exit Sub > > > >EH: > > Application.Echo True > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Compact BE", > >"CompactBE") > > > >End Sub > > > >Public Function CountCurrentUsers() As Integer > >On Error GoTo EH > > > > Dim con As New ADODB.Connection > > Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset > > Dim stgAccessVersion As String > > Dim intUserCount As Integer > > Dim stgUserName As String > > > > stgAccessVersion = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessVer) > > > > '-- The user roster is exposed as a provider-specific schema > >rowset _ > > in the Jet 4.0 OLE DB provider. You have to use a GUID to _ > > reference the schema, as provider-specific schemas are not _ > > listed in ADO's type library for schema rowsets > > > > Select Case stgAccessVersion > > Case "9.0" > > '-- This is from MSKB 198755 and is specific to Access > >2000 > > con.Open "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data > >Source=\\ServerPath\SystemFolder\FrontEnd\FE.mdb" > > Case "10.0" > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > >2002 or > >2003 > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > Case "11.0" > > '-- This is from MSKB 285822 and is specific to Access > >2002 or > >2003 > > Set con = CurrentProject.Connection > > End Select > > > > Set rst = con.OpenSchema(adSchemaProviderSpecific, , > >"{947bb102-5d43-11d1-bdbf-00c04fb92675}") > > > > If rst.EOF = False Then > > Do While rst.EOF = False > > stgUserName = Left$(rst.Fields(1), InStr(1, > >rst.Fields(1), > >Chr(0)) - 1) > > If stgUserName <> "Admin" Then > > intUserCount = intUserCount + 1 > > End If > > rst.MoveNext > > Loop > > CountCurrentUsers = intUserCount > > Else > > CountCurrentUsers = 0 > > End If > > > > rst.Close > > Set rst = Nothing > > > > Exit Function > > > >EH: > > Application.Echo True > > Call GlobalErrors("", Err.Number, Err.Description, "Count Current > >Users", "CountCurrentUsers") > > > >End Function > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > Respectfully, > > Christopher Hawkins > Managing Developer > http://www.christopherhawkins.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Sat Aug 28 15:56:30 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:56:30 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Tablet pc and Access 2003 Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0ADB2B@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Does tablet pc run regular office applications and more important Access? Erwin Craps Zaakvoerder www.ithelps.be/jonathan This E-mail is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and E-mail confirmation to the sender. IT Helps - I.T. Help Center *** Box Office Belgium & Luxembourg www.ithelps.be * www.boxoffice.be * www.stadleuven.be IT Helps bvba* ** Mercatorpad 3 ** 3000 Leuven IT Helps * Phone: +32 16 296 404 * Fax: +32 16 296 405 E-mail: Info at ithelps.be Box Office ** Fax: +32 16 296 406 ** Box Office E-mail: Staff at boxoffice.be From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Aug 28 17:17:38 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 08:17:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] VLDBs, the saga - Ramblings only In-Reply-To: <000001c48cf6$06589a90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> References: Message-ID: <41319122.24461.13B4CC@lexacorp.com.pg> On 28 Aug 2004 at 7:56, John W. Colby wrote: > > With any luck, given the massive compression PKZip managed to attain, I will > be able to shoehorn the 600g. > John, do not use compressed drives for SQL Server data. You are asking for trouble. See http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;231347 I did warn you before you got started about how much storage and processing power you were going to need. You just can't handle that amount of data without serious expenditure on the hardware. -- Stuart From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Aug 28 19:19:02 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 20:19:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VLDBs, the saga - Ramblings only In-Reply-To: <41319122.24461.13B4CC@lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000201c48d5d$ccdcbdb0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Thanks for the reference. That's the first I have seen that actually explains why. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 6:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] VLDBs, the saga - Ramblings only On 28 Aug 2004 at 7:56, John W. Colby wrote: > > With any luck, given the massive compression PKZip managed to attain, > I will be able to shoehorn the 600g. > John, do not use compressed drives for SQL Server data. You are asking for trouble. See http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;231347 I did warn you before you got started about how much storage and processing power you were going to need. You just can't handle that amount of data without serious expenditure on the hardware. -- Stuart -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From k.williamson5 at verizon.net Sat Aug 28 20:22:06 2004 From: k.williamson5 at verizon.net (Keith Williamson) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:22:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? In-Reply-To: <000501c48c7e$02ec6030$cb0ba845@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: <20040829012208.FIGD24594.out001.verizon.net@KeithComputer> No. "tblfax" is an empty table that gets copied to the "tempfax_" & CurrentUser table. Once that is copied, all the unbound fields on the form are copied to the "tempfax_" & CurrentUser table. But for some reason the data from the unbound fields is showing up in both tables. Both tables were empty before the update command, but both have the data afterwards. I can't figure it out. :( Regards, Keith Williamson -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 4:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Could it be because the first thing you do is copy whatever is in (tempfax_ & currentuser) to tblfax on the line... DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" You then add the new record but the next time this runs, the whole of (tempfax_ & currentuser) will get copied to tblfax. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Keith Williamson Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Data copied to both tables???? Can someone please tell me why the code below adds data to BOTH the tblfax table AND the (tempfax_& currentuser) table?????? I'm at wits end here. All the fields being added to recordset "mytable2" are from unbound fields in the open form. The intent here is to copy an empty table "tblfax" (which has no data), and call it "tempfax_" & current user.....copy the forms data to this table...and use it for the data source for a report. For some reason...the data is being copied to both tables. I can't understand why. Any ideas??? Dim db As Database Dim stDocName As String Dim mytable2 As Recordset Dim sqlstring As String Dim recSource As String Set db = CurrentDb DoCmd.CopyObject , "tempfax_" & CurrentUser, acTable, "tblfax" Set mytable2 = db.OpenRecordset("tempfax_" & CurrentUser) With mytable2 .AddNew ![faxto] = [TempFaxTo] ![phonenum] = [tempphone] ![faxfrom] = [TempFrom] ![faxnum] = [TempFaxNum] ![Pages] = [TempPages] ![urgent] = [TempUrgent] ![review] = [TempForReview] ![comment] = [TempPleaseComment] ![reply] = [TempPleaseReply] ![message] = [TempMessage] .Update End With Thanks, Keith E. Williamson Ashland Equipment, Inc phone # (410) 273-1856 fax # (410) 273-1859 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at afsweb.com Sun Aug 29 18:17:39 2004 From: ebarro at afsweb.com (Eric Barro) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:17:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Obtaining 2 lowest values in a row In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Group, I have a table of records where I need to grab the 2 lowest values in a row. For example: 1 100 50 25 98 75 66 2 98 100 45 63 51 21 so the result for row 1 would be 25 and 50 and the result for row 2 would be 21 and 45 I want to create a query that produces this result 1 75 (sum of 25 and 50) 2 66 (sum of 21 and 45) Can anyone help? --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 29 18:40:39 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 19:40:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Obtaining 2 lowest values in a row In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040829234040.UYCZ1794.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Do the values 100, 50, 25, and so on represent the same type of value? If so, you should normalize the table, then it would be easy: 1 100 1 50 1 25 1 98 1 75 1 66 2 96 2 100 And so on... In a case like this, I'd suggest exporting the table to Excel and using the transpose feature to reorganize it -- then import it back into Access -- should be fairly straight forward. The totaling part is easy with aggregates once the data is normalized. If the values represent different types of data, you could still do the same, but just use the imported table for totaling as you need it. But, since you're adding the values, I suspect they do represent the same type of value. Susan H. Group, I have a table of records where I need to grab the 2 lowest values in a row. For example: 1 100 50 25 98 75 66 2 98 100 45 63 51 21 so the result for row 1 would be 25 and 50 and the result for row 2 would be 21 and 45 I want to create a query that produces this result 1 75 (sum of 25 and 50) 2 66 (sum of 21 and 45) Can anyone help? --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 29 19:27:42 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 20:27:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Online storage Message-ID: <20040830002742.JQYX1791.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> We're moving in a few days and I don't have the facilities to back up both of the systems I work on -- I usually just back up from one to the other. Can anyone suggest an online service where I could upload both systems, just in case something happens during the move? Since this is so off topic, I guess you should reply off list. Also, I'll be unsubbing for a few days -- anyone needing me can reach me off list at ssharkins at bellsouth.net -- but it might take a few days for me to get back to you. Thanks everyone. Susan H. From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun Aug 29 19:28:15 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:28:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed References: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412C3AA4.408@shaw.ca> <035b01c48afd$63dcf300$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412E3513.7090306@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <024901c48e28$3dde2060$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Marty: Thanks for those. It's really for Spanish, and maybe in the future sometime, French. Hopefully I'll never have to learn how to input Chinese. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > If you are going to get deeper into this. > Here are two rough code snippets to switch languages on the fly for data > entry in Access. > One uses API calls, the other keyboard events. > > The Canadian Government sometimes specifies bilingual French-English > form data entry. > I dunno how to handle DBCS languages like Chinese Big 5. As they say, > that is left for an exercise for the student. > You probably fiddle around with the IME. > > > Public Declare Function LoadKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" Alias _ > "LoadKeyboardLayoutA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String, ByVal Flags As Long) As > Long > > Private Declare Function ActivateKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" (ByVal HKL > As Long, _ > ByVal Flags As Long) As Long > > Private Declare Function GetKeyboardLayoutName Lib "user32" Alias _ > "GetKeyboardLayoutNameA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String) As Long > > Const KL_NAMELENGTH = 9 > > Sub testarabic() > Dim lRet As Long > 'your language selection bar will have languages added if available on > the machine. > ' warning if bar isn't visible on screen taskbar or floating version, > you may have to go to control panel to reset > ' to proper language desired. > lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For English > Debug.Print lRet > lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) > Debug.Print lRet > lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000401", 1) ' For Arabic > Debug.Print lRet > lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000401", 0) > Debug.Print lRet > lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00011009", 1) ' For FrenchCanadian > Debug.Print lRet > lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00011009", 0) > Debug.Print lRet > End Sub > > Sub resetenglish() > Dim lRet As Long > lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For US English > Debug.Print lRet > lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) > Debug.Print lRet > End Sub > > Sub whatiskeybd() > Dim strName As String > 'Create a buffer > strName = String(KL_NAMELENGTH, 0) > 'Get the keyboard layout name > GetKeyboardLayoutName strName > Debug.Print "Keyboard layout name: " & strName > End Sub > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Alternate method for bilingual entry on textboxes > assumes you have only two languages on language bar > or you are using only one hot key switch > > 'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/Unicode-KbdsonWindows.pdf > 'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/nlsweb/default.asp?submitted=40d > > 'Part of the file Win32api.txt: > ' > ' VK_L VK_R - left and right Alt, Ctrl and Shift virtual keys. > ' Used only as parameters to GetAsyncKeyState() and GetKeyState(). > ' No other API or message will distinguish left and right keys in this > 'way. > ' / > Public Const VK_LSHIFT = &HA0 > Public Const VK_RSHIFT = &HA1 > Public Const VK_LCONTROL = &HA2 > Public Const VK_RCONTROL = &HA3 > Public Const VK_LMENU = &HA4 > Public Const VK_RMENU = &HA5 > > 'What a weird name for the Alt-key. but it does use the menu > > Private Const VK_LWIN = &H5B 'Left window button > Private Const VK_RETURN = &HD 'ENTER key > Private Const VK_SHIFT = &H10 'SHIFT key > Private Const VK_CONTROL = &H11 'CTRL key > Private Const VK_MENU = &H12 'ALT key > Private Const VK_PAUSE = &H13 'PAUSE key > Private Const VK_CAPITAL = &H14 'CAPS LOCK key > Private Const VK_SNAPSHOT = &H2C 'Print Screen > Private Const VK_APPS = &H5D > 'Applications key on a Microsoft Natural Keyboard > 'from http://support.microsoft.com/view/dev.asp?kb=242971 > > Const GW_HWNDFIRST = 0 > Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 > Private Const KEYEVENTF_KEYUP = &H2 > > Private Declare Sub keybd_event Lib "user32" (ByVal bVk As Byte, _ > ByVal bScan As Byte, ByVal dwFlags As Long, ByVal dwExtraInfo As Long) > > Sub ShiftToLanguage() > 'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox > 'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: > > ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key > 'order of pressing important > keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 > keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, 0, 0 > > > keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > 'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock > 'has been left on > keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > Debug.Print "Shift" > DoEvents > > End Sub > > Sub ShiftToLanguageBack() > 'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox > 'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: > > ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key > 'order of pressing important > keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 > keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, 0, 0 > > > keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > 'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock > 'has been left on > keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > Debug.Print "Shift Back" > DoEvents > > End Sub > > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > > >Marty: > > > >Don't know exactly how I did it, but I got the alternate keyboard. AND I > >can key the accent marks directly in an Access table now. > > > >Thanks to all > > > >Best, > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "MartyConnelly" > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:07 AM > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > > > > > > > > > >>Another Method > >> > >>Win XP Control Panel --> Regional Language Settings--> Languages > >>--Details --> Installed services > >> Add the Spanish Keyboard in addition to English. > >> > >>Other button option selections > >> > >>Language -choose to float Keyboard Language Bar on Screen as transparent > >>or in tasktray > >>I prefer floating bar rather cluttering TaskTray icon > >> > >>Key Settings choose a hotkey to switch language keyboard. > >> > >>This will give you a floating keyboard selection bar > >> > >>Defualt To change language keyboards when typing toggle ALT - Right Shift > >> > >> You can also do this by VBA code. I have used to sense Keyboard > >>language state and switch between French or English Text boxes on same > >> > >> > >form > > > > > >>There are probably pictures of spanish keyboard mappings at > >>http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev > >> > >>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Stuart: > >>> > >>> > >>>Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when > >>>keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the > >>> > >>> > >mdb > > > > > >>>where I have to key all this Spanish. > >>> > >>>Rocky > >>> > >>> > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: "Stuart McLachlan" > >>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>> > >>>Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:42 PM > >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a > >>>>>terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the > >>>>>vowels. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut and > >>>>paste. > >>>> > >>>>>From the Word Help: > >>>>To insert Press > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter > >>>> > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter > >>>> > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter > >>>> > >>>>?, ?, ? > >>>>?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>> > >>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, Y CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter > >>>> > >>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A > >>>> > >>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A > >>>> > >>>>o, O CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O > >>>> > >>>>?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C > >>>> > >>>>?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D > >>>> > >>>>?, ? CTRL+/, o or O > >>>> > >>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? > >>>> > >>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! > >>>>-- > >>>>Stuart > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>AccessD mailing list > >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>Marty Connelly > >>Victoria, B.C. > >>Canada > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>AccessD mailing list > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sun Aug 29 22:20:07 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 08:50:07 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms References: <003501c48ce9$bdca8010$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <001b01c48e40$6fca0c20$ae1865cb@winxp> Arthur, Two alternatives could be considered - (a) No limit to the maximum number of columns to be displayed in the form. Additional columns keep getting added dynamically at run time as required. (b) Refine the cross-tab query so as to have fixed number of 12 column headings ("Jan" to "Dec" in column headings property). In such a case, the year field should be set as the dominant row heading (if any additional field is to be set as supplementary row heading, it is preferably put to the right of year field - in query design grid). From your post, you appear to be aiming at an arrangement similar to (a) above. In such a case, the following implications need to be considered - (i) The form would tend to get progressively unwieldy, with ever increasing number of columns, requiring excessive horizontal scrolling. (ii) Creation of new controls at run time requires transitory switching to design view. (iii) Such a db would not be amenable to conversion as mde file. On the other hand, alternative (b) above is free from the handicaps just mentioned, at the same time affording the convenience of two pronged scanning of data as follows - (i) Horizontally in a row - for data across various months in a given year and (ii) Vertically in a column - for data across various years in a given month. Coming to second part of your posting, automatic setting of focus to the first matching cell in datasheet, corresponding to the current date (whenever the form is opened) can be effected by putting the code given below, in form's load event. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- =================================== Private Sub Form_Load() Dim Mn As String SYear.SetFocus DoCmd.FindRecord Year(Date) Mn = Format(Date, "mmm") Me(Mn).SetFocus End Sub Note - This code is based upon the name of year field being SYear and names of column headings being "Jan" to "Dec" =================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Fuller To: AccessD Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 15:58 Subject: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms 1. I built a datasheet form from a crosstab... And no simple crosstab either, it's actually 28 crosstabs UNIONed. No problem insofar as I'm dealing with the current data. The problem will emerge when the users add new rows to the data source, which will result in additional columns that won't be dealt with in the datasheet form. So the question is, can I programmatically generate a datasheet form based on the underlying query, and if so how so? Just to be clear, the queries will generate columns from 1/1/2003 to as far as the users care to go. I need to determine the number of columns in the current form, and if that differs from the number of columns delivered by the underlying query, then programmatically add enough columns to handle it gracefully. 2. Given such a form with, say, 50 columns, all of which represent successive month-end-dates (i.e. 2/29/2004), how can I open the form and move the cursor to the month corresponding to Now()? If I can just get this to work the way I see it on the back of my eyelids, the users are going to have spiritual orgasms :) TIA, Arthur From davide at dalyn.co.nz Mon Aug 30 00:25:35 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:25:35 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash In-Reply-To: <412F9273.7090407@shaw.ca> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040827112819.00b2c010@mail.dalyn.co.nz> <412F89D8.3010006@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040830172259.00b3e750@mail.dalyn.co.nz> That solved most of the problem. Now the commands work on the server. However, it is used as a terminal server. Although it runs fine when using the program direct on the computer, if anyone connects to a terminal server session they still get the same crashing. Any pointers on this one!! David At 27/08/2004, you wrote: >Oh and one other thing to check that you have installed >Overview of Office XP Service Pack 3 for Access 2002 Runtime. Note this is >in addition to normal SP3 >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;834693&Product=acc > >MartyConnelly wrote: > >>Well it looks like different Office XP service packs on the machines, XP >>SP-3 on your development machine. >>Are you doing a full new runtime install on the server, or just passing >>over the adp file to the server with changes.? >>This could lead to problems. >> >>David Emerson wrote: >> >>>Group, >>> >>>I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 >>>Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or DoCmd.TransferText >>>commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in MSAccess.exe). >>> >>>Examples are - >>> >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, >>>strTableName, strFullName >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, >>>False >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >>>"dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >>>"dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", >>>strFullName >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True >>>DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, False >>> >>>The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with >>>Office 97 and Office XP). >>> >>>I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. >>> >>>Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of >>>the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on my >>>machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program Files\Microsoft >>>Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version 10.0.2627.1. >>> >>>Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? >>> >>> >>>Regards >>> >>>David Emerson >>>Dalyn Software Ltd >>>25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >>>Wellington, New Zealand >>>Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 >>>Mobile 027-280-9348 From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 30 04:53:12 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:53:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Obtaining 2 lowest values in a row In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1513078876.20040830115312@cactus.dk> Hi Eric > I have a table of records where I need to grab the 2 lowest values in a row. > For example: > 1 100 50 25 98 75 66 > 2 98 100 45 63 51 21 > so the result for row 1 would be 25 and 50 and the result for row 2 would be 21 and 45 > I want to create a query that produces this result > 1 75 (sum of 25 and 50) > 2 66 (sum of 21 and 45) I think the easiest method would be to read the records into an array with GetRows() and sort on this, but it can be done in SQL: First, assemble the six fields into one using two union queries: SELECT ID, V1 AS V, 1 AS N FROM tblMin6 WHERE ID=1 UNION ALL SELECT ID, V2 AS V, 2 AS N FROM tblMin6 WHERE ID=1 UNION ALL SELECT ID, V3 AS V, 3 AS N FROM tblMin6 WHERE ID=1 UNION ALL SELECT ID, V4 AS V, 4 AS N FROM tblMin6 WHERE ID=1 UNION ALL SELECT ID, V5 AS V, 5 AS N FROM tblMin6 WHERE ID=1 UNION ALL SELECT ID, V6 AS V, 6 AS N FROM tblMin6 WHERE ID=1; The other is identical but, of course, reads: WHERE ID=2 Save these as qdyMin6All1 and qdyMin6All2. The purpose of N is to distinguish two or more identical next-to-minimum values in the next queries where TOP 2 is used. Second, pick the two minimum values from these: SELECT TOP 2 * FROM qdyMin6All1 ORDER BY V, N; SELECT TOP 2 * FROM qdyMin6All2 ORDER BY V, N; Save these as qdyMin6Min21 and qdyMin6Min22. Now, create a union query to combine and sum the values: SELECT ID, Sum(V) AS SumMinV FROM qdyMin6Min21 GROUP BY ID UNION ALL SELECT ID, Sum(V) AS SumMinV FROM qdyMin6Min22 GROUP BY ID; Save this as qdyMin6. This will return two rows with the ID and the sums of your mins. Have fun! /gustav From marcus at tsstech.com Mon Aug 30 08:34:44 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:34:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access97 and ODBC Problem Message-ID: Why would the following function work the first time it is called but hang on subsequent calls? It locks up on the OpenRecordset statement. I've tried variations on the OpenRecordset statement [such as Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset()]. This is connecting to an Oracle database. Watch for line wrap. Public Function GetEmployee(strEmployeeNo As String, ByRef strName As String) As Boolean On Error GoTo HandleError Dim qdf As QueryDef Dim rst As Recordset GetEmployee = False Set qdf = CurrentDb.CreateQueryDef("") qdf.Connect = "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;" qdf.SQL = "SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';" Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset(dbOpenForwardOnly, dbSQLPassThrough) If rst.EOF <> True Then GetEmployee = True strName = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing qdf.Close Set qdf = Nothing Exit Function HandleError: Call Log(Err.Number & ": " & Err.Description, "modEmployeeManagement:GetEmployee") End Function Thanks in advance, Scott Marcus TSS Technologies From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Aug 30 09:02:52 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:02:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access97 and ODBC Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12128059066.20040830160252@cactus.dk> Hi Scott Did you try separating the database and querydef objects and/or using a permanent query? Dim dbs As Database Dim qdf As QueryDef Dim rst As Recordset GetEmployee = False Set dbs = CurrentDb Set qdf = dbs.QueryDef("qdyTemp") qdf.Connect = "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;" qdf.SQL = "SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';" Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset(dbOpenForwardOnly, dbSQLPassThrough) If rst.EOF <> True Then GetEmployee = True strName = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing qdf.Close Set qdf = Nothing Set dbs = Nothing /gustav > Why would the following function work the first time it is called > but hang on subsequent calls? It locks up on the OpenRecordset > statement. I've tried variations on the OpenRecordset statement > [such as Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset()]. This is connecting to an > Oracle database. Watch for line wrap. > Public Function GetEmployee(strEmployeeNo As String, ByRef strName As String) As Boolean > On Error GoTo HandleError > Dim qdf As QueryDef > Dim rst As Recordset > GetEmployee = False > Set qdf = CurrentDb.CreateQueryDef("") > qdf.Connect = "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;" > qdf.SQL = "SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';" > Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset(dbOpenForwardOnly, dbSQLPassThrough) > If rst.EOF <> True Then > GetEmployee = True > strName = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) > End If > rst.Close > Set rst = Nothing > qdf.Close > Set qdf = Nothing > Exit Function > HandleError: > Call Log(Err.Number & ": " & Err.Description, "modEmployeeManagement:GetEmployee") > End Function > Thanks in advance, > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Aug 30 09:31:37 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:31:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FW: photo editing Message-ID: <001401c48e9e$128ffde0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> My sister in law is looking for photo editing stuff. If anyone knows of any that fits the description in the message below my sig could you reply directly to me off line or directly to Janice. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: JMcK110 at aol.com [mailto:JMcK110 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 9:00 AM To: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: photo editing John: For your type of computer, are you familiar with any non-professional software(not Photoshop) that lets you save photos as tiffs and measure photos in inches rather than pixels? Client is using Microsfot Photo Editor and having lots of trouble with it? Don't do any research on this question. I know you're busy. I'm just looking for off the top of your head answer. Janice From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Aug 30 09:51:12 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:51:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Online storage Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8031BB312@main2.marlow.com> If you are just talking about data...what kind of space requirement are you talking? I have about 10 gigs free on my servers data drive, if you want to just store data. Of course, unless you have screaming upload speed a gig or two is going to take a day or two. (At 1.5 meg up, to my house, it took about 45 minutes to transfer a 380 meg file). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 7:28 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT: Online storage We're moving in a few days and I don't have the facilities to back up both of the systems I work on -- I usually just back up from one to the other. Can anyone suggest an online service where I could upload both systems, just in case something happens during the move? Since this is so off topic, I guess you should reply off list. Also, I'll be unsubbing for a few days -- anyone needing me can reach me off list at ssharkins at bellsouth.net -- but it might take a few days for me to get back to you. Thanks everyone. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon Aug 30 09:43:46 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:43:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access97 and ODBC Problem Message-ID: Gustav, This is strange. When I run the code you gave me, I get the following error "3001:Invalid argument". Yet when I open the query from the IDE, it runs just fine. I guess I should try some other types instead of dbOpenForwardOnly. Scott -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access97 and ODBC Problem Hi Scott Did you try separating the database and querydef objects and/or using a permanent query? Dim dbs As Database Dim qdf As QueryDef Dim rst As Recordset GetEmployee = False Set dbs = CurrentDb Set qdf = dbs.QueryDef("qdyTemp") qdf.Connect = "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;" qdf.SQL = "SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';" Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset(dbOpenForwardOnly, dbSQLPassThrough) If rst.EOF <> True Then GetEmployee = True strName = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing qdf.Close Set qdf = Nothing Set dbs = Nothing /gustav > Why would the following function work the first time it is called > but hang on subsequent calls? It locks up on the OpenRecordset > statement. I've tried variations on the OpenRecordset statement > [such as Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset()]. This is connecting to an > Oracle database. Watch for line wrap. > Public Function GetEmployee(strEmployeeNo As String, ByRef strName As String) As Boolean > On Error GoTo HandleError > Dim qdf As QueryDef > Dim rst As Recordset > GetEmployee = False > Set qdf = CurrentDb.CreateQueryDef("") > qdf.Connect = "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;" > qdf.SQL = "SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';" > Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset(dbOpenForwardOnly, dbSQLPassThrough) > If rst.EOF <> True Then > GetEmployee = True > strName = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) > End If > rst.Close > Set rst = Nothing > qdf.Close > Set qdf = Nothing > Exit Function > HandleError: > Call Log(Err.Number & ": " & Err.Description, "modEmployeeManagement:GetEmployee") > End Function > Thanks in advance, > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Mon Aug 30 10:52:09 2004 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:52:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access97 and ODBC Problem Message-ID: Gustav, What you suggested didn't work either. Your suggestion did lead me down another path. Here is what works... Public Function GetEmployee(strEmployeeNo As String, ByRef strName As String) As Boolean On Error GoTo HandleError Dim wrk As Workspace Dim con As Connection Dim rst As Recordset Set wrk = CreateWorkspace("NewWorkspace", "admin", "", dbUseODBC) Set con = wrk.OpenConnection("Con", , True, "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;") GetEmployee = False Set rst = con.OpenRecordset("SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';") If rst.EOF <> True Then GetEmployee = True strname = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing con.Close Set con = Nothing wrkODBC.Close Set wrkODBC = Nothing Exit Function HandleError: Call Log(Err.Number & ": " & Err.Description, "modEmployeeManagement:GetEmployee") End Function Thanks for your help. Scott Marcus -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access97 and ODBC Problem Hi Scott Did you try separating the database and querydef objects and/or using a permanent query? Dim dbs As Database Dim qdf As QueryDef Dim rst As Recordset GetEmployee = False Set dbs = CurrentDb Set qdf = dbs.QueryDef("qdyTemp") qdf.Connect = "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;" qdf.SQL = "SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';" Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset(dbOpenForwardOnly, dbSQLPassThrough) If rst.EOF <> True Then GetEmployee = True strName = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) End If rst.Close Set rst = Nothing qdf.Close Set qdf = Nothing Set dbs = Nothing /gustav > Why would the following function work the first time it is called > but hang on subsequent calls? It locks up on the OpenRecordset > statement. I've tried variations on the OpenRecordset statement > [such as Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset()]. This is connecting to an > Oracle database. Watch for line wrap. > Public Function GetEmployee(strEmployeeNo As String, ByRef strName As String) As Boolean > On Error GoTo HandleError > Dim qdf As QueryDef > Dim rst As Recordset > GetEmployee = False > Set qdf = CurrentDb.CreateQueryDef("") > qdf.Connect = "ODBC;DSN=dataconnection;UID=user;PWD=password;DBQ=uxs02;DBA=R;APA=T;PFC=1;TLO=0;" > qdf.SQL = "SELECT surname, given_name FROM employees WHERE employeeno = '" & strEmployeeNo & "';" > Set rst = qdf.OpenRecordset(dbOpenForwardOnly, dbSQLPassThrough) > If rst.EOF <> True Then > GetEmployee = True > strName = Trim(rst!given_name) & " " & Trim(rst!surname) > End If > rst.Close > Set rst = Nothing > qdf.Close > Set qdf = Nothing > Exit Function > HandleError: > Call Log(Err.Number & ": " & Err.Description, "modEmployeeManagement:GetEmployee") > End Function > Thanks in advance, > Scott Marcus > TSS Technologies -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Aug 30 10:53:32 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:53:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms In-Reply-To: <001b01c48e40$6fca0c20$ae1865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <018301c48ea9$80c4b9d0$6501a8c0@rock> Thanks for the tips! In my case, since the column names are generated from the dates, I'll need to revise your code a bit to make it work, but thanks for the pointer. It won't be difficult now. As the to the problem of an unwieldy number of columns, I don't think that will be a problem, particularly if I start them on the Now() column. They might even think of it as a feature! (You can also press left-arrow to see previous months :) A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms Arthur, Two alternatives could be considered - (a) No limit to the maximum number of columns to be displayed in the form. Additional columns keep getting added dynamically at run time as required. (b) Refine the cross-tab query so as to have fixed number of 12 column headings ("Jan" to "Dec" in column headings property). In such a case, the year field should be set as the dominant row heading (if any additional field is to be set as supplementary row heading, it is preferably put to the right of year field - in query design grid). From your post, you appear to be aiming at an arrangement similar to (a) above. In such a case, the following implications need to be considered - (i) The form would tend to get progressively unwieldy, with ever increasing number of columns, requiring excessive horizontal scrolling. (ii) Creation of new controls at run time requires transitory switching to design view. (iii) Such a db would not be amenable to conversion as mde file. On the other hand, alternative (b) above is free from the handicaps just mentioned, at the same time affording the convenience of two pronged scanning of data as follows - (i) Horizontally in a row - for data across various months in a given year and (ii) Vertically in a column - for data across various years in a given month. Coming to second part of your posting, automatic setting of focus to the first matching cell in datasheet, corresponding to the current date (whenever the form is opened) can be effected by putting the code given below, in form's load event. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- =================================== Private Sub Form_Load() Dim Mn As String SYear.SetFocus DoCmd.FindRecord Year(Date) Mn = Format(Date, "mmm") Me(Mn).SetFocus End Sub Note - This code is based upon the name of year field being SYear and names of column headings being "Jan" to "Dec" =================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Fuller To: AccessD Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 15:58 Subject: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms 1. I built a datasheet form from a crosstab... And no simple crosstab either, it's actually 28 crosstabs UNIONed. No problem insofar as I'm dealing with the current data. The problem will emerge when the users add new rows to the data source, which will result in additional columns that won't be dealt with in the datasheet form. So the question is, can I programmatically generate a datasheet form based on the underlying query, and if so how so? Just to be clear, the queries will generate columns from 1/1/2003 to as far as the users care to go. I need to determine the number of columns in the current form, and if that differs from the number of columns delivered by the underlying query, then programmatically add enough columns to handle it gracefully. 2. Given such a form with, say, 50 columns, all of which represent successive month-end-dates (i.e. 2/29/2004), how can I open the form and move the cursor to the month corresponding to Now()? If I can just get this to work the way I see it on the back of my eyelids, the users are going to have spiritual orgasms :) TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Aug 30 12:32:12 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:32:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089AF3@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> List, Does anyone know if IE 5xx has any issues with accessing https sites? I'm pretty sure I can get them on my home PC but I've got a laptop here at the office that serves up "page not found" errors on two of our sites (one a web app, the other a Citrix server). Thanks, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan Tarrytown, NY *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From adtp at touchtelindia.net Mon Aug 30 12:44:34 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 23:14:34 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms References: <018301c48ea9$80c4b9d0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <005101c48eb9$187aa000$781865cb@winxp> You are most welcome Arthur! If at any stage you happen to need further assistance, just let me know. The suggested solution for 12 column display of calendar months is implementable even when the source data for column headings is of date type. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Fuller To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 21:23 Subject: RE: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms Thanks for the tips! In my case, since the column names are generated from the dates, I'll need to revise your code a bit to make it work, but thanks for the pointer. It won't be difficult now. As the to the problem of an unwieldy number of columns, I don't think that will be a problem, particularly if I start them on the Now() column. They might even think of it as a feature! (You can also press left-arrow to see previous months :) A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms Arthur, Two alternatives could be considered - (a) No limit to the maximum number of columns to be displayed in the form. Additional columns keep getting added dynamically at run time as required. (b) Refine the cross-tab query so as to have fixed number of 12 column headings ("Jan" to "Dec" in column headings property). In such a case, the year field should be set as the dominant row heading (if any additional field is to be set as supplementary row heading, it is preferably put to the right of year field - in query design grid). From your post, you appear to be aiming at an arrangement similar to (a) above. In such a case, the following implications need to be considered - (i) The form would tend to get progressively unwieldy, with ever increasing number of columns, requiring excessive horizontal scrolling. (ii) Creation of new controls at run time requires transitory switching to design view. (iii) Such a db would not be amenable to conversion as mde file. On the other hand, alternative (b) above is free from the handicaps just mentioned, at the same time affording the convenience of two pronged scanning of data as follows - (i) Horizontally in a row - for data across various months in a given year and (ii) Vertically in a column - for data across various years in a given month. Coming to second part of your posting, automatic setting of focus to the first matching cell in datasheet, corresponding to the current date (whenever the form is opened) can be effected by putting the code given below, in form's load event. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- =================================== Private Sub Form_Load() Dim Mn As String SYear.SetFocus DoCmd.FindRecord Year(Date) Mn = Format(Date, "mmm") Me(Mn).SetFocus End Sub Note - This code is based upon the name of year field being SYear and names of column headings being "Jan" to "Dec" =================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Fuller To: AccessD Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 15:58 Subject: [AccessD] Two questions about datasheet forms 1. I built a datasheet form from a crosstab... And no simple crosstab either, it's actually 28 crosstabs UNIONed. No problem insofar as I'm dealing with the current data. The problem will emerge when the users add new rows to the data source, which will result in additional columns that won't be dealt with in the datasheet form. So the question is, can I programmatically generate a datasheet form based on the underlying query, and if so how so? Just to be clear, the queries will generate columns from 1/1/2003 to as far as the users care to go. I need to determine the number of columns in the current form, and if that differs from the number of columns delivered by the underlying query, then programmatically add enough columns to handle it gracefully. 2. Given such a form with, say, 50 columns, all of which represent successive month-end-dates (i.e. 2/29/2004), how can I open the form and move the cursor to the month corresponding to Now()? If I can just get this to work the way I see it on the back of my eyelids, the users are going to have spiritual orgasms :) TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at afsweb.com Mon Aug 30 13:34:32 2004 From: ebarro at afsweb.com (Eric Barro) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:34:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089AF3@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: Check in Tools, Options on IE and in the advanced tab check if SSL 2.0, SSL 3.0 are checked under the Security section. --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:32 AM To: AccessD (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question List, Does anyone know if IE 5xx has any issues with accessing https sites? I'm pretty sure I can get them on my home PC but I've got a laptop here at the office that serves up "page not found" errors on two of our sites (one a web app, the other a Citrix server). Thanks, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan Tarrytown, NY *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Mon Aug 30 13:40:47 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:40:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089AF3@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> References: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089AF3@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:32:12 -0400, Jim DeMarco wrote: > Does anyone know if IE 5xx has any issues with accessing https sites? I'm pretty sure I can get them on my home PC but I've got a laptop here at the office that serves up "page not found" errors on two of our sites (one a web app, the other a Citrix server). Do you have any other workstations that successfully reach the site?, AFAIK IE 5xxx is find w/ reaching any https website. Additionally have you tried w/ a 3rd party browser? (say Firefox .9.3) -- -Francisco From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Aug 30 14:22:28 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:22:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089B00@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Both checked thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 2:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question Check in Tools, Options on IE and in the advanced tab check if SSL 2.0, SSL 3.0 are checked under the Security section. --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:32 AM To: AccessD (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question List, Does anyone know if IE 5xx has any issues with accessing https sites? I'm pretty sure I can get them on my home PC but I've got a laptop here at the office that serves up "page not found" errors on two of our sites (one a web app, the other a Citrix server). Thanks, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan Tarrytown, NY *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Aug 30 14:26:30 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:26:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089B01@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Thanks Francisco. That's what I thought. Most machines here run IE 6 so I've no where else to test at this point. This is an old machine I use for low-end testing. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:32:12 -0400, Jim DeMarco wrote: > Does anyone know if IE 5xx has any issues with accessing https sites? I'm pretty sure I can get them on my home PC but I've got a laptop here at the office that serves up "page not found" errors on two of our sites (one a web app, the other a Citrix server). Do you have any other workstations that successfully reach the site?, AFAIK IE 5xxx is find w/ reaching any https website. Additionally have you tried w/ a 3rd party browser? (say Firefox .9.3) -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From ebarro at afsweb.com Mon Aug 30 14:36:00 2004 From: ebarro at afsweb.com (Eric Barro) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:36:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089B00@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: Can you get to any other sites that are using SSL? You might have to check the use TLS1.0 checkbox too. Are you using proxy servers? --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 12:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question Both checked thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 2:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question Check in Tools, Options on IE and in the advanced tab check if SSL 2.0, SSL 3.0 are checked under the Security section. --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:32 AM To: AccessD (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question List, Does anyone know if IE 5xx has any issues with accessing https sites? I'm pretty sure I can get them on my home PC but I've got a laptop here at the office that serves up "page not found" errors on two of our sites (one a web app, the other a Citrix server). Thanks, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan Tarrytown, NY *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Mon Aug 30 14:38:14 2004 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:38:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: HTTPS question In-Reply-To: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089B01@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> References: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74089B01@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:26:30 -0400, Jim DeMarco wrote: > Thanks Francisco. That's what I thought. Most machines here run IE 6 so I've no where else to test at this point. This is an old machine I use for low-end testing. Jim, It may be a firewall issue if you are inside a corporate network. I know where I work, I can get to some https sites, but not others. It really makes no sesne sometimes. If these are "public" sites, I can check to see if I can reach them for you with IE 5.5 on Win2K as well as Firefox 0.9.3. From behind a corporate firewall and from home if you'd like. Just send the URLs to carbonnb at gmail.com (off-line) if you want. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Aug 30 12:41:46 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:41:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed References: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412C3AA4.408@shaw.ca> <035b01c48afd$63dcf300$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412E3513.7090306@shaw.ca> <024901c48e28$3dde2060$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <413366DA.20202@shaw.ca> I see Michael Kaplan has shifted to the dark side again and is now working full time for Microsoft in International Development ;) Some other things you may run into. Unicode and Keyboards on Windows (Article) http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/inputinwin.mspx Win XP keyboard layouts (Displays layouts on screen) http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/keyboards.aspx Old list of regional settings http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;193080 Some of this changes in newer versions of OS and Office For example WinXP SP2 now supports Welsh unicode keyboard. Hooray. However Spanish has a lot of layouts and may have increased with xp sp2 This is integer you may want to convert to hex for api calls Spanish (Traditional Sort) 1034 *!* Spanish (Mexican) 2058 *!* Spanish (Modern Sort) 3082 *!* Spanish (Guatemala) 4106 *!* Spanish (Costa Rica) 5130 *!* Spanish (Panama) 6154 *!* Spanish (Dominican Republic) 7178 *!* Spanish (Venezuela) 8202 *!* Spanish (Colombia) 9226 *!* Spanish (Peru) 10250 *!* Spanish (Argentina) 11274 *!* Spanish (Ecuador) 12298 *!* Spanish (Chile) 13322 *!* Spanish (Uruguay) 14346 *!* Spanish (Paraguay) 15370 *!* Spanish (Bolivia) 16394 *!* Spanish (El Salvador) 17418 *!* Spanish (Honduras) 18442 *!* Spanish (Nicaragua) 19466 *!* Spanish (Puerto Rico) 20490 Microsoft Office 2003 Language Settings Setting up your Office program to work in more than one language To work with different languages in your Office program, you need to enable the appropriate languages for editing by using the Microsoft Office Language Settings tool. (On the Start menu, point to Programs, point to Microsoft Office Tools, and then click Microsoft Office 2003 Language Settings.) Doing so makes additional language-specific options available. For example, if you install the English (U.S.) version of Office and you enable editing for Japanese, commands for formatting Japanese text appear on the Format menu in Microsoft Word, Microsoft PowerPoint, and Microsoft Excel. Using the Microsoft Office Language Settings tool, you can also change your default settings in Office to have them match the default settings of a different language. For example, if you are using an English version of Office but frequently work with right-to-left text, you can change the default installation language to a right-to-left language, thereby setting all of the Office defaults to right-to-left. As you work in Word and PowerPoint, you can set the language of the text so that the correct proofing tools are used, and you can add language-specific words to a custom dictionary. In Word, you can fine-tune the ways the program handles text in different languages. For example, you can turn automatic language detection on or off, sort lists and tables according to the rules of the language you choose, and summarize documents in the language you choose. Additional proofing functionality is available in Microsoft Office 2003 Proofing Tools. For more information about Proofing Tools, see the Microsoft Office Online Web site. If your organization has purchased Microsoft Office 2003 Multilingual User Interface Pack, you can also change the language of the user interface and Help. You can get so-called MUI - Multi User Interface. You can install it on top of existing operating system and have a full support for your language (including menus, dialog boxes, help, spell-checking etc.) 3) Get the multi-language version of OS. This one natively supports different localized editions of OS. Ah you want the MUI MultiLingual User Interface for the OS and Office http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/prodinfo/language/default.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/DrIntl/faqs/MUIFaq.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/four/default.htm A lot of this is covered in the ORK Office Resource Kit. Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >Marty: > >Thanks for those. It's really for Spanish, and maybe in the future >sometime, French. Hopefully I'll never have to learn how to input Chinese. > >Rocky > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:08 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > > > > >>If you are going to get deeper into this. >>Here are two rough code snippets to switch languages on the fly for data >>entry in Access. >>One uses API calls, the other keyboard events. >> >>The Canadian Government sometimes specifies bilingual French-English >>form data entry. >>I dunno how to handle DBCS languages like Chinese Big 5. As they say, >>that is left for an exercise for the student. >>You probably fiddle around with the IME. >> >> >>Public Declare Function LoadKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" Alias _ >>"LoadKeyboardLayoutA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String, ByVal Flags As Long) As >>Long >> >>Private Declare Function ActivateKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" (ByVal HKL >>As Long, _ >>ByVal Flags As Long) As Long >> >>Private Declare Function GetKeyboardLayoutName Lib "user32" Alias _ >>"GetKeyboardLayoutNameA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String) As Long >> >>Const KL_NAMELENGTH = 9 >> >>Sub testarabic() >>Dim lRet As Long >>'your language selection bar will have languages added if available on >>the machine. >> ' warning if bar isn't visible on screen taskbar or floating version, >>you may have to go to control panel to reset >>' to proper language desired. >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For English >> Debug.Print lRet >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) >> Debug.Print lRet >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000401", 1) ' For Arabic >> Debug.Print lRet >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000401", 0) >> Debug.Print lRet >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00011009", 1) ' For FrenchCanadian >> Debug.Print lRet >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00011009", 0) >> Debug.Print lRet >>End Sub >> >>Sub resetenglish() >>Dim lRet As Long >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For US English >> Debug.Print lRet >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) >> Debug.Print lRet >>End Sub >> >>Sub whatiskeybd() >> Dim strName As String >> 'Create a buffer >> strName = String(KL_NAMELENGTH, 0) >> 'Get the keyboard layout name >> GetKeyboardLayoutName strName >> Debug.Print "Keyboard layout name: " & strName >>End Sub >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>Alternate method for bilingual entry on textboxes >>assumes you have only two languages on language bar >>or you are using only one hot key switch >> >>'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/Unicode-KbdsonWindows.pdf >>'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/nlsweb/default.asp?submitted=40d >> >>'Part of the file Win32api.txt: >>' >>' VK_L VK_R - left and right Alt, Ctrl and Shift virtual keys. >>' Used only as parameters to GetAsyncKeyState() and GetKeyState(). >>' No other API or message will distinguish left and right keys in this >>'way. >>' / >>Public Const VK_LSHIFT = &HA0 >>Public Const VK_RSHIFT = &HA1 >>Public Const VK_LCONTROL = &HA2 >>Public Const VK_RCONTROL = &HA3 >>Public Const VK_LMENU = &HA4 >>Public Const VK_RMENU = &HA5 >> >>'What a weird name for the Alt-key. but it does use the menu >> >>Private Const VK_LWIN = &H5B 'Left window button >>Private Const VK_RETURN = &HD 'ENTER key >>Private Const VK_SHIFT = &H10 'SHIFT key >>Private Const VK_CONTROL = &H11 'CTRL key >>Private Const VK_MENU = &H12 'ALT key >>Private Const VK_PAUSE = &H13 'PAUSE key >>Private Const VK_CAPITAL = &H14 'CAPS LOCK key >>Private Const VK_SNAPSHOT = &H2C 'Print Screen >>Private Const VK_APPS = &H5D >> 'Applications key on a Microsoft Natural Keyboard >>'from http://support.microsoft.com/view/dev.asp?kb=242971 >> >>Const GW_HWNDFIRST = 0 >>Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 >>Private Const KEYEVENTF_KEYUP = &H2 >> >>Private Declare Sub keybd_event Lib "user32" (ByVal bVk As Byte, _ >> ByVal bScan As Byte, ByVal dwFlags As Long, ByVal dwExtraInfo As Long) >> >>Sub ShiftToLanguage() >>'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox >>'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: >> >> ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key >> 'order of pressing important >> keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 >> keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, 0, 0 >> >> >> keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 >>'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock >>'has been left on >> keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 >> Debug.Print "Shift" >> DoEvents >> >>End Sub >> >>Sub ShiftToLanguageBack() >>'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox >>'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: >> >> ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key >> 'order of pressing important >> keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 >> keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, 0, 0 >> >> >> keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 >>'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock >>'has been left on >> keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 >> Debug.Print "Shift Back" >> DoEvents >> >>End Sub >> >>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >> >> >> >>>Marty: >>> >>>Don't know exactly how I did it, but I got the alternate keyboard. AND I >>>can key the accent marks directly in an Access table now. >>> >>>Thanks to all >>> >>>Best, >>> >>>Rocky Smolin >>>Beach Access Software >>>http://www.e-z-mrp.com >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "MartyConnelly" >>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:07 AM >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Another Method >>>> >>>>Win XP Control Panel --> Regional Language Settings--> Languages >>>>--Details --> Installed services >>>>Add the Spanish Keyboard in addition to English. >>>> >>>>Other button option selections >>>> >>>>Language -choose to float Keyboard Language Bar on Screen as transparent >>>>or in tasktray >>>>I prefer floating bar rather cluttering TaskTray icon >>>> >>>>Key Settings choose a hotkey to switch language keyboard. >>>> >>>>This will give you a floating keyboard selection bar >>>> >>>>Defualt To change language keyboards when typing toggle ALT - Right >>>> >>>> >Shift > > >>>>You can also do this by VBA code. I have used to sense Keyboard >>>>language state and switch between French or English Text boxes on same >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>form >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>There are probably pictures of spanish keyboard mappings at >>>>http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev >>>> >>>>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Stuart: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when >>>>>keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>mdb >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>where I have to key all this Spanish. >>>>> >>>>>Rocky >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Stuart McLachlan" >>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>>>> >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:42 PM >>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a >>>>>>>terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the >>>>>>>vowels. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut >>>>>> >>>>>> >and > > >>>>>>paste. >>>>>> >>>>>>>From the Word Help: >>>>>>To insert Press >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ?, ? >>>>>>?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, Y CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A >>>>>> >>>>>>o, O CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D >>>>>> >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+/, o or O >>>>>> >>>>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? >>>>>> >>>>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! >>>>>>-- >>>>>>Stuart >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>-- >>>>Marty Connelly >>>>Victoria, B.C. >>>>Canada >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Aug 30 16:29:15 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 14:29:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed References: <412C42DB.15782.3499F62@lexacorp.com.pg> <031c01c48a25$36a061c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412C3AA4.408@shaw.ca> <035b01c48afd$63dcf300$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <412E3513.7090306@shaw.ca> <024901c48e28$3dde2060$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <413366DA.20202@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <024001c48ed8$66cd57b0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Muchas Gracias. Sr. Smol?n (<-- see?. I can do it now!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > I see Michael Kaplan has shifted to the dark side again and is now > working full time for Microsoft in International Development ;) > Some other things you may run into. > > Unicode and Keyboards on Windows (Article) > http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/inputinwin.mspx > Win XP keyboard layouts (Displays layouts on screen) > http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/keyboards.aspx > Old list of regional settings > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;193080 > > Some of this changes in newer versions of OS and Office > For example WinXP SP2 now supports Welsh unicode keyboard. Hooray. > > > However Spanish has a lot of layouts and may have increased with xp sp2 > This is integer you may want to convert to hex for api calls > Spanish (Traditional Sort) 1034 > *!* Spanish (Mexican) 2058 > *!* Spanish (Modern Sort) 3082 > *!* Spanish (Guatemala) 4106 > *!* Spanish (Costa Rica) 5130 > *!* Spanish (Panama) 6154 > *!* Spanish (Dominican Republic) 7178 > *!* Spanish (Venezuela) 8202 > *!* Spanish (Colombia) 9226 > *!* Spanish (Peru) 10250 > *!* Spanish (Argentina) 11274 > *!* Spanish (Ecuador) 12298 > *!* Spanish (Chile) 13322 > *!* Spanish (Uruguay) 14346 > *!* Spanish (Paraguay) 15370 > *!* Spanish (Bolivia) 16394 > *!* Spanish (El Salvador) 17418 > *!* Spanish (Honduras) 18442 > *!* Spanish (Nicaragua) 19466 > *!* Spanish (Puerto Rico) 20490 > > Microsoft Office 2003 Language Settings > Setting up your Office program to work in more than one language > > To work with different languages in your Office program, you need to > enable the appropriate languages for editing by using the Microsoft > Office Language > Settings tool. (On the Start menu, point to Programs, point to Microsoft > Office Tools, and then click Microsoft Office 2003 Language Settings.) > Doing so makes > additional language-specific options available. For example, if you > install the English (U.S.) version of Office and you enable editing for > Japanese, commands > for formatting Japanese text appear on the Format menu in Microsoft > Word, Microsoft PowerPoint, and Microsoft Excel. > Using the Microsoft Office Language Settings tool, you can also change > your default settings in Office to have them match the default settings > of a different > language. For example, if you are using an English version of Office but > frequently work with right-to-left text, you can change the default > installation language to > a right-to-left language, thereby setting all of the Office defaults to > right-to-left. > > As you work in Word and PowerPoint, you can set the language of the text > so that the correct proofing tools are used, and you can add > language-specific words > to a custom dictionary. In Word, you can fine-tune the ways the program > handles text in different languages. For example, you can turn automatic > language > detection on or off, sort lists and tables according to the rules of the > language you choose, and summarize documents in the language you choose. > Additional > proofing functionality is available in Microsoft Office 2003 Proofing > Tools. For more information about Proofing Tools, see the Microsoft > Office Online Web site. > If your organization has purchased Microsoft Office 2003 Multilingual > User Interface Pack, you can also change the language of the user > interface and Help. > You can get so-called MUI - Multi User Interface. You can install it on > top of existing operating system and have a full support for your language > (including menus, dialog boxes, help, spell-checking etc.) > 3) Get the multi-language version of OS. This one natively supports > different localized editions of OS. > > Ah you want the MUI MultiLingual User Interface for the OS and Office > > http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/prodinfo/language/default.mspx > http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/DrIntl/faqs/MUIFaq.mspx > http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/four/default.htm > > A lot of this is covered in the ORK Office Resource Kit. > > > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > > >Marty: > > > >Thanks for those. It's really for Spanish, and maybe in the future > >sometime, French. Hopefully I'll never have to learn how to input Chinese. > > > >Rocky > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "MartyConnelly" > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:08 PM > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > > > > > > > > > >>If you are going to get deeper into this. > >>Here are two rough code snippets to switch languages on the fly for data > >>entry in Access. > >>One uses API calls, the other keyboard events. > >> > >>The Canadian Government sometimes specifies bilingual French-English > >>form data entry. > >>I dunno how to handle DBCS languages like Chinese Big 5. As they say, > >>that is left for an exercise for the student. > >>You probably fiddle around with the IME. > >> > >> > >>Public Declare Function LoadKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" Alias _ > >>"LoadKeyboardLayoutA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String, ByVal Flags As Long) As > >>Long > >> > >>Private Declare Function ActivateKeyboardLayout Lib "user32" (ByVal HKL > >>As Long, _ > >>ByVal Flags As Long) As Long > >> > >>Private Declare Function GetKeyboardLayoutName Lib "user32" Alias _ > >>"GetKeyboardLayoutNameA" (ByVal pwszKLID As String) As Long > >> > >>Const KL_NAMELENGTH = 9 > >> > >>Sub testarabic() > >>Dim lRet As Long > >>'your language selection bar will have languages added if available on > >>the machine. > >> ' warning if bar isn't visible on screen taskbar or floating version, > >>you may have to go to control panel to reset > >>' to proper language desired. > >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For English > >> Debug.Print lRet > >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) > >> Debug.Print lRet > >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000401", 1) ' For Arabic > >> Debug.Print lRet > >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000401", 0) > >> Debug.Print lRet > >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00011009", 1) ' For FrenchCanadian > >> Debug.Print lRet > >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00011009", 0) > >> Debug.Print lRet > >>End Sub > >> > >>Sub resetenglish() > >>Dim lRet As Long > >> lRet = LoadKeyboardLayout("00000409", 1) ' For US English > >> Debug.Print lRet > >> lRet = ActivateKeyboardLayout("00000409", 0) > >> Debug.Print lRet > >>End Sub > >> > >>Sub whatiskeybd() > >> Dim strName As String > >> 'Create a buffer > >> strName = String(KL_NAMELENGTH, 0) > >> 'Get the keyboard layout name > >> GetKeyboardLayoutName strName > >> Debug.Print "Keyboard layout name: " & strName > >>End Sub > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >>Alternate method for bilingual entry on textboxes > >>assumes you have only two languages on language bar > >>or you are using only one hot key switch > >> > >>'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/Unicode-KbdsonWindows.pdf > >>'http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/nlsweb/default.asp?submitted=40d > >> > >>'Part of the file Win32api.txt: > >>' > >>' VK_L VK_R - left and right Alt, Ctrl and Shift virtual keys. > >>' Used only as parameters to GetAsyncKeyState() and GetKeyState(). > >>' No other API or message will distinguish left and right keys in this > >>'way. > >>' / > >>Public Const VK_LSHIFT = &HA0 > >>Public Const VK_RSHIFT = &HA1 > >>Public Const VK_LCONTROL = &HA2 > >>Public Const VK_RCONTROL = &HA3 > >>Public Const VK_LMENU = &HA4 > >>Public Const VK_RMENU = &HA5 > >> > >>'What a weird name for the Alt-key. but it does use the menu > >> > >>Private Const VK_LWIN = &H5B 'Left window button > >>Private Const VK_RETURN = &HD 'ENTER key > >>Private Const VK_SHIFT = &H10 'SHIFT key > >>Private Const VK_CONTROL = &H11 'CTRL key > >>Private Const VK_MENU = &H12 'ALT key > >>Private Const VK_PAUSE = &H13 'PAUSE key > >>Private Const VK_CAPITAL = &H14 'CAPS LOCK key > >>Private Const VK_SNAPSHOT = &H2C 'Print Screen > >>Private Const VK_APPS = &H5D > >> 'Applications key on a Microsoft Natural Keyboard > >>'from http://support.microsoft.com/view/dev.asp?kb=242971 > >> > >>Const GW_HWNDFIRST = 0 > >>Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 > >>Private Const KEYEVENTF_KEYUP = &H2 > >> > >>Private Declare Sub keybd_event Lib "user32" (ByVal bVk As Byte, _ > >> ByVal bScan As Byte, ByVal dwFlags As Long, ByVal dwExtraInfo As Long) > >> > >>Sub ShiftToLanguage() > >>'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox > >>'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: > >> > >> ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key > >> 'order of pressing important > >> keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 > >> keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, 0, 0 > >> > >> > >> keybd_event VK_RMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > >>'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock > >>'has been left on > >> keybd_event VK_RSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > >> Debug.Print "Shift" > >> DoEvents > >> > >>End Sub > >> > >>Sub ShiftToLanguageBack() > >>'use the following code inside form or focused window or textbox > >>'to simulate the Alt RightShift = key combination: > >> > >> ' then press and then release the AltRight RightShift key > >> 'order of pressing important > >> keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, 0, 0 > >> keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, 0, 0 > >> > >> > >> keybd_event VK_LMENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > >>'weird things happen if you don't up the shiftkey looks like capslock > >>'has been left on > >> keybd_event VK_LSHIFT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 > >> Debug.Print "Shift Back" > >> DoEvents > >> > >>End Sub > >> > >>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Marty: > >>> > >>>Don't know exactly how I did it, but I got the alternate keyboard. AND I > >>>can key the accent marks directly in an Access table now. > >>> > >>>Thanks to all > >>> > >>>Best, > >>> > >>>Rocky Smolin > >>>Beach Access Software > >>>http://www.e-z-mrp.com > >>> > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: "MartyConnelly" > >>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>> > >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 12:07 AM > >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Another Method > >>>> > >>>>Win XP Control Panel --> Regional Language Settings--> Languages > >>>>--Details --> Installed services > >>>>Add the Spanish Keyboard in addition to English. > >>>> > >>>>Other button option selections > >>>> > >>>>Language -choose to float Keyboard Language Bar on Screen as transparent > >>>>or in tasktray > >>>>I prefer floating bar rather cluttering TaskTray icon > >>>> > >>>>Key Settings choose a hotkey to switch language keyboard. > >>>> > >>>>This will give you a floating keyboard selection bar > >>>> > >>>>Defualt To change language keyboards when typing toggle ALT - Right > >>>> > >>>> > >Shift > > > > > >>>>You can also do this by VBA code. I have used to sense Keyboard > >>>>language state and switch between French or English Text boxes on same > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>form > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>There are probably pictures of spanish keyboard mappings at > >>>>http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev > >>>> > >>>>Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Stuart: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>Thanks. Works well in Word. But it doesn't seem to work the same when > >>>>>keying into a table. Any ideas there? It's the language tables in the > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>mdb > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>where I have to key all this Spanish. > >>>>> > >>>>>Rocky > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>From: "Stuart McLachlan" > >>>>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>>>> > >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:42 PM > >>>>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accent Marks Needed > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>On 24 Aug 2004 at 13:34, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>I want to do the Spanish translation of my system, but I'm having a > >>>>>>>terrible time trying to figure out how to get the accent marks on the > >>>>>>>vowels. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>Simplest solution I've found is to create text in Word and then cut > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >and > > > > > >>>>>>paste. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>From the Word Help: > >>>>>>To insert Press > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+` (ACCENT GRAVE), the letter > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), the letter > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+^ (CARET), the letter > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ?, ? > >>>>>>?, ?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+~ (TILDE), the letter > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ?, ?, ?, ?, Y CTRL+SHIFT+: (COLON), the letter > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+@, a or A > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+SHIFT+&, a or A > >>>>>> > >>>>>>o, O CTRL+SHIFT+&, o or O > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+, (COMMA), c or C > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+' (APOSTROPHE), d or D > >>>>>> > >>>>>>?, ? CTRL+/, o or O > >>>>>> > >>>>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+? > >>>>>> > >>>>>>? ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+! > >>>>>>-- > >>>>>>Stuart > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>-- > >>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>AccessD mailing list > >>>>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>Marty Connelly > >>>>Victoria, B.C. > >>>>Canada > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>AccessD mailing list > >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>Marty Connelly > >>Victoria, B.C. > >>Canada > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>AccessD mailing list > >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 31 02:48:38 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:48:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record Message-ID: 65 million! What an amazing world you work it. Is there ever time in the week to pop home for an hour? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 27 August 2004 16:39 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Gustav, I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > things up I am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Tue Aug 31 04:31:00 2004 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:31:00 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash Message-ID: Hi My similar experience with Access(97) running under XP (with Office XP installed) when exporting text data was that if the export text filename did not have an file extension e.g. MyDownloadFile, Access would hang. Exporting to MyDownloadFile.txt would solve the issue. May or may not be relevant here (I was using Acc 97 but it was the XP OS (or Office XP) that seemed to be the issue here). Richard -----Original Message----- From: David Emerson [mailto:davide at dalyn.co.nz] Sent: 30 August 2004 06:26 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash That solved most of the problem. Now the commands work on the server. However, it is used as a terminal server. Although it runs fine when using the program direct on the computer, if anyone connects to a terminal server session they still get the same crashing. Any pointers on this one!! David At 27/08/2004, you wrote: >Oh and one other thing to check that you have installed >Overview of Office XP Service Pack 3 for Access 2002 Runtime. Note this is >in addition to normal SP3 >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;834693&Product= acc > >MartyConnelly wrote: > >>Well it looks like different Office XP service packs on the machines, XP >>SP-3 on your development machine. >>Are you doing a full new runtime install on the server, or just passing >>over the adp file to the server with changes.? >>This could lead to problems. >> >>David Emerson wrote: >> >>>Group, >>> >>>I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 >>>Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or DoCmd.TransferText >>>commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in MSAccess.exe). >>> >>>Examples are - >>> >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, >>>strTableName, strFullName >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, >>>False >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >>>"dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, >>>"dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", >>>strFullName >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True >>>DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", strFullName, False >>> >>>The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with >>>Office 97 and Office XP). >>> >>>I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. >>> >>>Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of >>>the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on my >>>machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program Files\Microsoft >>>Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version 10.0.2627.1. >>> >>>Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? >>> >>> >>>Regards >>> >>>David Emerson >>>Dalyn Software Ltd >>>25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >>>Wellington, New Zealand >>>Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 >>>Mobile 027-280-9348 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 31 06:11:39 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:11:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Determine OS and version via VBA Message-ID: Hello all I used to have a little code jewel from the list tucked away in my own personal little archive that would allow me to determine the OS in VBA- But alas since the death of the laptop my personal stash has gone So....Anyone got any code to determine the OS and version? Many thanks in advance Darren From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 31 06:12:30 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 07:12:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201c48f4b$6b8b0a90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Paul, In fact I am trying to make this run on my home system which is part of the problem. This week I am playing "stay-at-home dad" as my wife starts the chhool year this week and has all those 1st week teacher meetings / training. I have never come even close to a db this size and it has definitely been a learning experience. Here's hoping I survive. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 3:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record 65 million! What an amazing world you work it. Is there ever time in the week to pop home for an hour? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 27 August 2004 16:39 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Gustav, I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > things up I am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Aug 31 06:43:04 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:43:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Determine OS and version via VBA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4134F0E8.2471.2BB4250@lexacorp.com.pg> On 31 Aug 2004 at 21:11, Darren DICK wrote: > Anyone got any code to determine the OS and version? > Simple one: Declare Function GetVersion Lib "kernel32" () As Long Public Function GetWinVersion() As String Dim Ver As Long, WinVer As Long Ver = GetVersion() WinVer = Ver And &HFFFF& 'retrieve the windows version GetWinVersion = Format((WinVer Mod 256) + ((WinVer \ 256) / 100), "Fixed") End Function Longer one: Declare Function GetVersionEx Lib "kernel32" Alias "GetVersionExA" _ (lpVersionInformation As OSVERSIONINFO) As Long Type OSVERSIONINFO dwOSVersionInfoSize As Long dwMajorVersion As Long dwMinorVersion As Long dwBuildNumber As Long dwPlatformId As Long szCSDVersion As String * 128 End Type Function GetWinVersion2() As String Dim OSInfo As OSVERSIONINFO Dim lngRetVal As Long Dim strVersion As String OSInfo.dwOSVersionInfoSize = Len(OSInfo) lngRetVal = GetVersionEx(OSInfo) If lngRetVal = 0 Then GetWinVersion2 = "Error Getting Version Information" Else Select Case OSInfo.dwPlatformId Case 0 strVersion = "Windows 32s " Case 1 strVersion = "Windows 95/98" Case 2 strVersion = "Windows NT " End Select strVersion = strVersion & " Win version:" _ & Str$(OSInfo.dwMajorVersion) & "." _ & LTrim(Str(OSInfo.dwMinorVersion)) _ & " Build: " + Str(OSInfo.dwBuildNumber) GetWinVersion2 = strVersion End If End Function -- Stuart From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Aug 31 06:57:25 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:57:25 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Determine OS and version via VBA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18220136144.20040831135725@cactus.dk> Hi Darren > I used to have a little code jewel from the list tucked away in my own > personal little archive that would allow me to determine the OS in VBA- But > alas since the death of the laptop my personal stash has gone So....Anyone > got any code to determine the OS and version? We use this module: Option Compare Database Option Explicit ' Major Minor ' OS Platform Version Version Build ' ' Windows 95 1 4 0 ' Windows 98 1 4 10 1998 ' Windows 98SE 1 4 10 2222 ' Windows ME 1 4 90 3000 ' NT 3.51 2 3 51 ' NT 2 4 0 1381 ' 2000 2 5 0 ' XP 2 5 1 2600 ' Server 2003 2 5 2 ' Code based on MS API documentation. ' 2004-07-02. Assembled by Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Private Const VER_PLATFORM_WIN32s As Long = 0 ' Win32s on Windows 3.1x. Private Const VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_WINDOWS As Long = 1 ' Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME. Private Const VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT As Long = 2 ' Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Server 2003. Private Const clngCSDVersion As Long = 128 Private Type OSVERSIONINFO dwOSVersionInfoSize As Long dwMajorVersion As Long dwMinorVersion As Long dwBuildNumber As Long dwPlatformId As Long szCSDVersion As String * clngCSDVersion End Type Private Declare Function GetVersionEx Lib "kernel32" Alias "GetVersionExA" ( _ ByRef lpVersionInformation As OSVERSIONINFO) _ As Long Public Function GetVersion() As String ' Retrieves version of current Windows OS. ' Returns version as full string. ' ' 2004-07-02. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim OSV As OSVERSIONINFO Dim strVersion As String OSV.dwOSVersionInfoSize = Len(OSV) OSV.szCSDVersion = Space$(clngCSDVersion) GetVersionEx OSV With OSV ' Service Pack info string. Debug.Print .szCSDVersion Select Case .dwPlatformId Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32s ' Win32s on Windows 3.1x. strVersion = "Windows 3.1" Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_WINDOWS ' Windows 95, Windows 98, Select Case .dwMinorVersion ' Windows ME. Case 0 strVersion = "Windows 95" Case 10 If (.dwBuildNumber And &HFFFF&) = 2222 Then strVersion = "Windows 98SE" Else strVersion = "Windows 98" End If Case 90 strVersion = "Windows ME" End Select Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT ' Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Select Case .dwMajorVersion ' Windows Server 2003. Case 3 strVersion = "Windows NT 3.51" Case 4 strVersion = "Windows NT 4.0" Case 5 Select Case .dwMinorVersion Case 0 strVersion = "Windows 2000" Case 1 strVersion = "Windows XP" Case 2 strVersion = "Windows Server 2003" End Select End Select Case Else strVersion = "Unknown" End Select End With GetVersion = strVersion End Function Public Function IsWinXP() As Boolean ' Checks current Windows OS. ' Returns True if OS is Win XP or Server 2003. ' ' 2004-07-07. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim OSV As OSVERSIONINFO Dim booVersion As Boolean OSV.dwOSVersionInfoSize = Len(OSV) GetVersionEx OSV With OSV Select Case .dwPlatformId Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT ' Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Select Case .dwMajorVersion ' Windows Server 2003. Case 5 Select Case .dwMinorVersion Case 0 ' strVersion = "Windows 2000" Case 1 ' strVersion = "Windows XP" booVersion = True Case 2 ' strVersion = "Windows Server 2003" booVersion = True End Select End Select End Select End With IsWinXP = booVersion End Function Have fun! /gustav From Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk Tue Aug 31 08:07:44 2004 From: Paul.Rogers at SummitMedia.co.uk (Paul Rodgers) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:07:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record Message-ID: Somehow I suspect there's not much doubt about it. Sounds a brilliant life. Yes, school's going back here too with all that accompanying wonderful craziness. All the best paul -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 31 August 2004 12:13 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Paul, In fact I am trying to make this run on my home system which is part of the problem. This week I am playing "stay-at-home dad" as my wife starts the chhool year this week and has all those 1st week teacher meetings / training. I have never come even close to a db this size and it has definitely been a learning experience. Here's hoping I survive. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com ___ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 From JHewson at karta.com Tue Aug 31 10:15:59 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:15:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Columns with composite data Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C0103E29C@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> Just curious if anyone has done this before. I created a report with four columns. The columns run down, then across. The fourth column of page 3 is about half way down the page in length. Is it possible to use the remainder of the column space for a composite data? E.g. total number of records or something similar. If put in the Report footer, a new page is generated. I currently put such information in the Report Header. Thanks, Jim From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 10:44:29 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:44:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Gmail Invite (D) Message-ID: Ok, here it is again, a Gmail Invite Reply off list w/ a funny joke, the Invite goes to the first response. -- -Francisco From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 10:46:13 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:46:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] JIT Forms? Message-ID: Anyone have a link, or advice on creating controls JIT? Access2000 / ADP I have an unbound form, that I'd like to pass a recordset to and thus be able to on-the-fly create controls that match the recordset... any ideas? -- -Francisco From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 31 12:47:27 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:47:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] JIT Forms? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c48f82$95d45ea0$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> You can do that but only in design view. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] JIT Forms? Anyone have a link, or advice on creating controls JIT? Access2000 / ADP I have an unbound form, that I'd like to pass a recordset to and thus be able to on-the-fly create controls that match the recordset... any ideas? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 15:26:46 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:26:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] test Message-ID: test -- -Francisco From my.lists at verizon.net Tue Aug 31 15:27:24 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:27:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] test2 Message-ID: <4134DF2C.4040902@verizon.net> test2 -- -Francisco From ppeters1 at cce.umn.edu Tue Aug 31 16:25:02 2004 From: ppeters1 at cce.umn.edu (Polly R Peterson) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:25:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Preparing Access Applications for Office 2003 Conversion Message-ID: If any of you have experience/advice on this issue we would appreciate your input. Thanks in advance! -Polly P. ________________________________________________________________________ ___________________ PROBLEM: Converting from Office XP to Office 2003 raises security warning messages in Access .ADP applications that are delivered to users via a standard image. CONVERSION SECURITY ISSUE: When testing our .adp applications in an Office 2003 test environment, we find the following results: * When macro security is set to high applications basically do not function. * When macro security is set to medium, a security warning appears at startup: "This file may not be safe if it contains code that was intended to harm your computer. Do you want to open the file or cancel the operation?" If you select 'open' then the application appears to function normally * When macro security is set to low: Everything appears to function normally. OUR PROPOSED SOLUTION: Microsoft recommends setting Macro Security to medium or high in Access applications. After reading several articles, I'm leaning toward the following solution: Set Access macro security to medium and disable the security warning. >From what I've read, it's possible for an administrator to do this via Certificate Server on Windows 2000/2003 Server. The administrator could create a digital signature that would be valid across the domain. This digital signature certificate would essentially turn off the error message you see if macro security settings are at medium. QUESTIONS 1. How can we best adopt Microsoft's security recommendations and avoid this error message? 2. Does our solution seem sensible? Has anyone actually done this before? Are their details I'm overlooking? How have others dealt with this conversion? 3. Where can we see what security level we are currently using in Access 2002? The Tools, Macro, Security path isn't an option in 2002 and I can't find much on Macro security in that environment. SPECS: We're currently running Office XP, Access 2002, MS Jet 4.0 sp 8 (4.0.8618.0), Security Level: ? We're Migrating to Office 2003, Access 2003, MS Jet 4.0 sp 8 (4.0.8618.0), Security Level Medium From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue Aug 31 16:44:32 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:44:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] test Message-ID: You passed. -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 4:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] test test -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davide at dalyn.co.nz Tue Aug 31 13:51:21 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 06:51:21 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040901065033.00b2c0b0@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks for the suggestion. All the file names have the extension included. David At 31/08/2004, you wrote: >Hi > > >My similar experience with Access(97) running under XP (with Office XP >installed) when exporting text data was that if the export text filename >did not have an file extension e.g. MyDownloadFile, Access would hang. >Exporting to MyDownloadFile.txt would solve the issue. May or may not >be relevant here (I was using Acc 97 but it was the XP OS (or Office XP) >that seemed to be the issue here). > >Richard > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Emerson [mailto:davide at dalyn.co.nz] >Sent: 30 August 2004 06:26 >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] TransferText Causing System Crash > >That solved most of the problem. Now the commands work on the server. > >However, it is used as a terminal server. Although it runs fine when >using >the program direct on the computer, if anyone connects to a terminal >server >session they still get the same crashing. > >Any pointers on this one!! > >David > >At 27/08/2004, you wrote: > >Oh and one other thing to check that you have installed > >Overview of Office XP Service Pack 3 for Access 2002 Runtime. Note this >is > >in addition to normal SP3 > >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;834693&Product= >acc > > > >MartyConnelly wrote: > > > >>Well it looks like different Office XP service packs on the machines, >XP > >>SP-3 on your development machine. > >>Are you doing a full new runtime install on the server, or just >passing > >>over the adp file to the server with changes.? > >>This could lead to problems. > >> > >>David Emerson wrote: > >> > >>>Group, > >>> > >>>I have an AXP ade/SQL2000 runtime setup running on Windows 2003 > >>>Server. When I use the DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet or >DoCmd.TransferText > >>>commands my database crashes (Unexpected error in MSAccess.exe). > >>> > >>>Examples are - > >>> > >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel7, > >>>strTableName, strFullName > >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", >strFullName, > >>>False > >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, > >>>"dbo.ttmpSwitchNewIn", Me!txtSwitchFile, True > >>>DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acImport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel97, > >>>"dbo.ttmpTemporary", Me!txtDataFile > >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpAgedDebtorDDebitExp", > >>>strFullName > >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpExportMerge", > >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Merge\CustMerge.TXT", True > >>>DoCmd.TransferText acExportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpSwitchNewOut", > >>>DLookup("RootFolder", "tblCompany") & "\Switch\CustSwitch.TXT", True > >>>DoCmd.TransferText acImportDelim, , "dbo.ttmpTOURawData", >strFullName, False > >>> > >>>The commands work on my development machine (WXP Professional with > >>>Office 97 and Office XP). > >>> > >>>I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the runtime application. > >>> > >>>Other commands in the Access library seem to work ok. The version of > > >>>the olb (C:\Program Files\Microsoft OfficeXP\Office10\msacc.olb) on >my > >>>machine is 10.0.6308.0. The runtime machine (C:\Program >Files\Microsoft > >>>Access Runtime\Office10\msacc.olb) has version 10.0.2627.1. > >>> > >>>Any clues why the transfer commands might be causing problems? > >>> > >>> > >>>Regards > >>> > >>>David Emerson > >>>Dalyn Software Ltd > >>>25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park > >>>Wellington, New Zealand > >>>Ph/Fax (04) 478-7456 > >>>Mobile 027-280-9348 From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 17:29:05 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:29:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just a slow day then? (no posts?) On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:44:32 -0400, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) wrote: > You passed. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 4:27 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] test > > test > -- > -Francisco > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco From artful at rogers.com Tue Aug 31 18:35:08 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:35:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] JIT Forms? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <036401c48fb3$2724fd30$6501a8c0@rock> Me too! Wrapped in a little clever code, this request could result in an automated app-gen thingie that manufactures forms for every table, respects the relationships diagram, and acts accordingly. That could save us ALL a lot of time! A. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] JIT Forms? Anyone have a link, or advice on creating controls JIT? Access2000 / ADP I have an unbound form, that I'd like to pass a recordset to and thus be able to on-the-fly create controls that match the recordset... any ideas? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 31 18:40:07 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:40:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Will an A2K MDE run unde A2003? Message-ID: <001701c48fb3$d92f7320$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I have to call a guy tomorrow morning and tell him whether my software will work in Access 2003. I compile it into an MDE under Access 2000. I know that MDE will run under Access 2002. Will the MDE run in 2003? I also have Access 2002 which I could use to make an MDE. Would an MDE compiled under Access 2002 run under Access 2003? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From artful at rogers.com Tue Aug 31 18:32:55 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:32:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <001201c48f4b$6b8b0a90$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <036301c48fb2$d77ab3b0$6501a8c0@rock> Just to put things in perspective, JC, the first client of the people who developed MySQL had 60M rows in their principal table. There are lots of apps way bigger than that. I once had a client that was adding 10M rows per month to the table of concern (this was an app recording seismic activity from several hundred meters). I must caution you that you should not use the term VLDB as loosely as you have been using it. You don't know the meaning of VLDB -- not yet at least. You're beginning to appreciate the turf, however. Once I bid on a project that had 100M rows each containing a graphic file. Not to say that size is everything, but IMO VLDB comprises at least a TB, and often many hundreds of TBs. I just got a contract with a company using MySQL whose test database's most important table comprises 100M rows. They expect their clients to have 10* as many rows. My job is to optimize the queries. Fortunately, I can assume any hardware I deem necessary to do it. They are after sub-second retrieves against 1B rows, with maybe 1000 users. Life's a beach and then you drown. I don't know if I can deliver what they want, but what I can deliver is benchmarks against the various DBs that I'm comfortable with -- SQL 2000, Oracle, MySQL and DB/2. I figure that if none of them can do it, I'm off the hook :) The difficult part of this new assignment is that there's no way I can duplicate the hardware resources required to emulate the required system, so I have to assume that the benchmarks on my local system will hold up in a load-leveling 100-server environment -- at least until I have something worthy of installing and then test it in that environment. I sympathize and empathize with your situation, JC. It's amazing how many of our tried-and-true solutions go right out the window when you escalate the number of rows to 100M -- and then factor in multiple joins. Stuff that looks spectacular with only 1M rows suddenly sucks big-time when applied to 100M rows. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Paul, In fact I am trying to make this run on my home system which is part of the problem. This week I am playing "stay-at-home dad" as my wife starts the chhool year this week and has all those 1st week teacher meetings / training. I have never come even close to a db this size and it has definitely been a learning experience. Here's hoping I survive. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 3:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record 65 million! What an amazing world you work it. Is there ever time in the week to pop home for an hour? Cheers paul -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 27 August 2004 16:39 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Gustav, I am working on a SQL Server database of about 65 million records. We need to pull a subset of those for doing counts of data in specific fields. Trying to do that analysis on the entire 65 million records just won't work at least in anything close to realtime. Thus we literally want to pull every Nth record. If we pulled every 100th record into a table that would give a sampling of 650K records to run this analysis on. That still won't be lightning fast but at least doable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Every 100th record Hi John > Does anyone have a strategy for pulling every Nth record? My client > wants to pull every 100th record into a dataset for analysis, to speed > things up I am guessing. To speed up what? Analysis on a sample only and not on the full set? If so, you could select by "Random Between 1 To 100" = 1. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 19:01:30 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:01:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <036301c48fb2$d77ab3b0$6501a8c0@rock> References: <036301c48fb2$d77ab3b0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: For the record I think it was me who applied the term VLDB to his db :D. Even thow I've been my dept's DBA for the last 3 years, I have not run into any company database that touches the Millions of records, the only tables that I have that contain a near enough number of consequential tables, (auditing) On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:32:55 -0400, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Just to put things in perspective, JC, the first client of the people > who developed MySQL had 60M rows in their principal table. There are > lots of apps way bigger than that. I once had a client that was adding > 10M rows per month to the table of concern (this was an app recording > seismic activity from several hundred meters). I must caution you that > you should not use the term VLDB as loosely as you have been using it. > You don't know the meaning of VLDB -- not yet at least. You're beginning > to appreciate the turf, however. Once I bid on a project that had 100M > rows each containing a graphic file. Not to say that size is everything, > but IMO VLDB comprises at least a TB, and often many hundreds of TBs. -- -Francisco From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 19:03:20 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:03:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Will an A2K MDE run unde A2003? In-Reply-To: <001701c48fb3$d92f7320$6601a8c0@HAL9002> References: <001701c48fb3$d92f7320$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: I am curious as to why you don't deploy it w/ a runtime?, I mean you don't have it as opensource to allow the customer to work w/ the app. On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:40:07 -0700, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > Dear List: > > I have to call a guy tomorrow morning and tell him whether my software will work in Access 2003. I compile it into an MDE under Access 2000. I know that MDE will run under Access 2002. Will the MDE run in 2003? > > I also have Access 2002 which I could use to make an MDE. Would an MDE compiled under Access 2002 run under Access 2003? > -- -Francisco From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 31 19:25:07 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:25:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Every 100th record In-Reply-To: <036301c48fb2$d77ab3b0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <000d01c48fba$264f5980$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> In fact the client has another database that has 125 million addresses, another that has 14 million more people, and another that handles all their sports mailings. They would like to merge them all. I just bought a 3ghz socket 754 Athlon 64 which I am loading with Win2K and SQL Server tonight. I can only pray that this gives me SOMETHING in the way of a speedup against my old AMD Athlon 2500. I have to examine my options, down to splitting up the database and having different machines process pieces. I also have to learn to tune SQL Server. Since I am starting from "know absolutely nothing" it shouldn't be too hard to get better results over time. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Just to put things in perspective, JC, the first client of the people who developed MySQL had 60M rows in their principal table. There are lots of apps way bigger than that. I once had a client that was adding 10M rows per month to the table of concern (this was an app recording seismic activity from several hundred meters). I must caution you that you should not use the term VLDB as loosely as you have been using it. You don't know the meaning of VLDB -- not yet at least. You're beginning to appreciate the turf, however. Once I bid on a project that had 100M rows each containing a graphic file. Not to say that size is everything, but IMO VLDB comprises at least a TB, and often many hundreds of TBs. I just got a contract with a company using MySQL whose test database's most important table comprises 100M rows. They expect their clients to have 10* as many rows. My job is to optimize the queries. Fortunately, I can assume any hardware I deem necessary to do it. They are after sub-second retrieves against 1B rows, with maybe 1000 users. Life's a beach and then you drown. I don't know if I can deliver what they want, but what I can deliver is benchmarks against the various DBs that I'm comfortable with -- SQL 2000, Oracle, MySQL and DB/2. I figure that if none of them can do it, I'm off the hook :) The difficult part of this new assignment is that there's no way I can duplicate the hardware resources required to emulate the required system, so I have to assume that the benchmarks on my local system will hold up in a load-leveling 100-server environment -- at least until I have something worthy of installing and then test it in that environment. I sympathize and empathize with your situation, JC. It's amazing how many of our tried-and-true solutions go right out the window when you escalate the number of rows to 100M -- and then factor in multiple joins. Stuff that looks spectacular with only 1M rows suddenly sucks big-time when applied to 100M rows. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record Paul, In fact I am trying to make this run on my home system which is part of the problem. This week I am playing "stay-at-home dad" as my wife starts the chhool year this week and has all those 1st week teacher meetings / training. I have never come even close to a db this size and it has definitely been a learning experience. Here's hoping I survive. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 3:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Every 100th record 65 million! What an amazing world you work it. Is there ever time in the week to pop home for an hour? Cheers paul From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Aug 31 20:10:16 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:10:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Rotating Excel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c48fc0$747cdf50$80b3fea9@ColbyM6805> I need to export data from this big database into Excel. The objective = is to get the FIELD NAMES out with data from about 100 records. I then = need to rotate excel such that the field names are down the left side and the = data for each record runs down vertically, the data for any given field runs across horizontally. Can anyone tell me how to rotate the spreadsheet = such that the field names are down the left side? I assume that the export MUST go out with the field names across the top row, and the data below that. =20 Can anyone tell me how to get the entire 600+ fields out in a single = export? When I try to use dts it works but complains (fails) if I try and export more than about 240 fields. It LOOKS LIKE perhaps the length of the = field names in the first row is confusing Excel. It is telling me I am = exceeding the 1000 column limit (or some such) What I really want to do is export all the columns (about 600) with the field names in the top row, then rotate the whole shootin match. Any assistance on any of this is greatly appreciated. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Aug 31 22:24:58 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:24:58 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K:Determine OS and version via VBA - Solved thanks Gustav and Stuart In-Reply-To: <18220136144.20040831135725@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000d01c48fd3$426c1ef0$4a619a89@DDICK> Gustav and Stuart Many thanks to you both Both sets of code Work like a charm Many thanks to you both Have a great day Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, 31 August 2004 9:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K:Determine OS and version via VBA Hi Darren > I used to have a little code jewel from the list tucked away in my own > personal little archive that would allow me to determine the OS in > VBA- But alas since the death of the laptop my personal stash has gone > So....Anyone got any code to determine the OS and version? We use this module: Option Compare Database Option Explicit ' Major Minor ' OS Platform Version Version Build ' ' Windows 95 1 4 0 ' Windows 98 1 4 10 1998 ' Windows 98SE 1 4 10 2222 ' Windows ME 1 4 90 3000 ' NT 3.51 2 3 51 ' NT 2 4 0 1381 ' 2000 2 5 0 ' XP 2 5 1 2600 ' Server 2003 2 5 2 ' Code based on MS API documentation. ' 2004-07-02. Assembled by Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Private Const VER_PLATFORM_WIN32s As Long = 0 ' Win32s on Windows 3.1x. Private Const VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_WINDOWS As Long = 1 ' Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME. Private Const VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT As Long = 2 ' Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Server 2003. Private Const clngCSDVersion As Long = 128 Private Type OSVERSIONINFO dwOSVersionInfoSize As Long dwMajorVersion As Long dwMinorVersion As Long dwBuildNumber As Long dwPlatformId As Long szCSDVersion As String * clngCSDVersion End Type Private Declare Function GetVersionEx Lib "kernel32" Alias "GetVersionExA" ( _ ByRef lpVersionInformation As OSVERSIONINFO) _ As Long Public Function GetVersion() As String ' Retrieves version of current Windows OS. ' Returns version as full string. ' ' 2004-07-02. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim OSV As OSVERSIONINFO Dim strVersion As String OSV.dwOSVersionInfoSize = Len(OSV) OSV.szCSDVersion = Space$(clngCSDVersion) GetVersionEx OSV With OSV ' Service Pack info string. Debug.Print .szCSDVersion Select Case .dwPlatformId Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32s ' Win32s on Windows 3.1x. strVersion = "Windows 3.1" Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_WINDOWS ' Windows 95, Windows 98, Select Case .dwMinorVersion ' Windows ME. Case 0 strVersion = "Windows 95" Case 10 If (.dwBuildNumber And &HFFFF&) = 2222 Then strVersion = "Windows 98SE" Else strVersion = "Windows 98" End If Case 90 strVersion = "Windows ME" End Select Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT ' Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Select Case .dwMajorVersion ' Windows Server 2003. Case 3 strVersion = "Windows NT 3.51" Case 4 strVersion = "Windows NT 4.0" Case 5 Select Case .dwMinorVersion Case 0 strVersion = "Windows 2000" Case 1 strVersion = "Windows XP" Case 2 strVersion = "Windows Server 2003" End Select End Select Case Else strVersion = "Unknown" End Select End With GetVersion = strVersion End Function Public Function IsWinXP() As Boolean ' Checks current Windows OS. ' Returns True if OS is Win XP or Server 2003. ' ' 2004-07-07. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Dim OSV As OSVERSIONINFO Dim booVersion As Boolean OSV.dwOSVersionInfoSize = Len(OSV) GetVersionEx OSV With OSV Select Case .dwPlatformId Case VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT ' Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Select Case .dwMajorVersion ' Windows Server 2003. Case 5 Select Case .dwMinorVersion Case 0 ' strVersion = "Windows 2000" Case 1 ' strVersion = "Windows XP" booVersion = True Case 2 ' strVersion = "Windows Server 2003" booVersion = True End Select End Select End Select End With IsWinXP = booVersion End Function Have fun! /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 31 22:47:42 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:47:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Will an A2K MDE run unde A2003? References: <001701c48fb3$d92f7320$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <00f801c48fd6$6f473f10$6601a8c0@HAL9002> For my market having Access is quite common. So it's not really an issue. I've got Wise and could, I suppose, get the Sagekey script for A2K. But that's already 2 versions behind the latest. I understand that A2003 has a pretty decent deployment facility. Yes? If this prospect wants the software and it will only run in A2003 I'll get A2003, and then I'll have a chance to test the deployment features. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco Tapia" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Will an A2K MDE run unde A2003? > I am curious as to why you don't deploy it w/ a runtime?, I mean you > don't have it as opensource to allow the customer to work w/ the app. > > On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:40:07 -0700, Rocky Smolin - Beach Access > Software wrote: > > Dear List: > > > > I have to call a guy tomorrow morning and tell him whether my software will work in Access 2003. I compile it into an MDE under Access 2000. I know that MDE will run under Access 2002. Will the MDE run in 2003? > > > > I also have Access 2002 which I could use to make an MDE. Would an MDE compiled under Access 2002 run under Access 2003? > > > > -- > -Francisco > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fhtapia at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 17:32:19 2004 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:32:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Prompt after Form loads Message-ID: I have a form which autoloads data to some unbound controls. I have a need to prompt the user if he wants to overwrite some fields w/ defaults. However since the "IF" is in the form_load event it prompts before the form is fully loaded, thus the user can't make an informed decision. Any idea how to do this? on timer, then disable it? -- -Francisco From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Aug 31 23:26:57 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:26:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Prompt after Form loads References: Message-ID: <012501c48fdb$eb2ea910$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Can you use the Form_Open event? Can you load the data in the Form_Open event then ask the user what they want to do? What does 'autoload' mean in this case? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco Tapia" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 3:32 PM Subject: [AccessD] Prompt after Form loads > I have a form which autoloads data to some unbound controls. I have a > need to prompt the user if he wants to overwrite some fields w/ > defaults. However since the "IF" is in the form_load event it prompts > before the form is fully loaded, thus the user can't make an informed > decision. > > Any idea how to do this? on timer, then disable it? > -- > -Francisco > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >