[AccessD] RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual Basic.NET Standard 2003 ..."

Heenan, Lambert Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com
Tue Dec 7 15:36:27 CST 2004


The SDK download is indeed a complete package with which you can develop
.NET applications, but though you get comprehensive documentation, there is
no IDE. You will be using the command line compiler for C# and you will have
to provide your own editor.

Not too big a burden considering there are at least three free IDE's out
there:

Sharp Develop.  http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/
Mono. http://www.mono-project.com/about/index.html
and Borland C# Builder (free for personal use).
http://www.borland.com/products/downloads/download_cbuilder.html

Lambert

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C
> Contractor/Morgan Research
> Sent:	Tuesday, December 07, 2004 3:55 PM
> To:	dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject:	[AccessD] RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy
> "Microsoft Visual	Basic.NET	Standard 2003 ..."
> 
> Richard:
> 
> I do not mean to question what you're telling me, but I want to make
> absolutely sure that we're both on the same wavelength.  I understand
> that the .NET "Framework" simply provides the .NET runtime environment,
> (and NOT the various .Net developer tools - such as ASP.NET, ADO.NET,
> and VB.NET - among others).
> 
> What I am specifically asking about is the information at this:
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9b3a2ca6-3647-4
> 070-9f41-a333c6b9181d&displaylang=en
> 
> Microsoft download site, where the following descriptive text appears
> verbatim:
> 
> Quote:
> 
> .NET Framework SDK Version 1.1
> 
> The Microsoft® .NET Framework Software Development Kit (SDK) version 1.1
> includes everything developers need to write, build, test, and deploy .NET
> Framework applications - documentation, samples, and command-line tools
> and compilers.
> 
> End Quote:
> 
> Of course, trying to decipher Microsoft marketing hyperbole can be
> something of an exercise in futility, but when you read this statement
> word-for-word, they do use the words "... everything developers need ..."
> (among others) and they ARE describing a "Software Developer Kit" (SDK)
> product.  Also, the SDK download is approximately 106 Megabytes - which is
> quite a bucket of bits!  (Pardon the pun ...)  The .NET Framework (by
> itself) is just a tad over 20 Megabytes.  (I know this for a fact because
> the .NET Framework [download] appears as an "optional download" when I run
> Windows Update on my home computer.
> 
> My question boils down to this: Are you SURE (really sure) that the
> "Microsoft .NET Framework Software Development Kit (SDK) version 1.1"
> [download] is merely the .NET runtime environment?  (If that is all it is,
> what is the extra 86 Megabytes and why is Microsoft using terms like
> "command-line tools and compilers" as well as "write, build, test, and
> deploy .NET Framework applications ..." in their description of the
> product?
> 
> If this SDK can be used as a relatively inexpensive (or free) "learning
> tool" to help me learn (and write) VB.NET code, then I think it would be
> well worth the bother of downloading to my home computer - even on a slow
> dial-up connection!
> 
> I'm going to cross post this to the AccessD List in the hopes that
> Charlotte Foust and John Colby will see it.
> 
> Alan C. Lawhon
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Griffiths, Richard [mailto:R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:32 AM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual
> Basic.NET Standard 2003 ..."
> 
> 
> Hi 
> The framework simply provides the dotnet runtime environment.  To
> develop you need Visual Studio .NET 2003 "Professional" Edition.  I've
> seen recently for about $700 and this includes windows 2003 and sql 2000
> (developer/test editions) - not bad really
> Richard
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C
> Contractor/Morgan Research
> Sent: 07 December 2004 17:07
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at shaw.ca
> Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual
> Basic.NET Standard 2003 ..."
> 
> Jim:
> 
> Thanks for the .NET links & info - which I am now diligently research-
> ing.  I need a bit of clarification concerning one of the links you
> provided.  First, some background ...
> 
> We are in the process of coming up with a recommendation for our
> customer
> concerning what software (and development tools) should be purchased in
> order to facilitate conversion of our environmental database application
> to a "web enabled" environmental database application.  I also have a
> secondary goal of obtaining an "affordable" .NET integrated development
> environment so that I can "play around" with VB.NET, ADO.NET, ASP.NET,
> (and whatever-else .NET is required), on my home computer.  (I have a
> feeling I can learn more at home versus all the constant "distractions"
> and interruptions here at work ...)
> 
> I have visited the link you provided to Microsoft's download site for
> the (free?) ".NET Framework SDK Version 1.1" IDE.  According to info
> at this MS site, the 106 MB download contains "everything developers
> need to write, build, test, and deploy .NET Framework applications -
> documentation, samples, and command-line tools and compilers."  I
> presume this means that this download includes the VB.NET compiler,
> ADO.NET, ASP.NET and other .NET development tools - in other words
> just about everything that is bundled with Microsoft's full-up version
> of Visual Studio .NET?
> 
> What has me scratching my head is this: I went to Microsoft's "Product
> Information" page for Visual Studio .NET 2003 "Professional" Edition.
> 
> URL: http://www.microsoft.com/products/info/product.aspx?view=22&pcid=
> 9fdcc2af-6b86-4ee8-9b71-90cebe8626e6&type=ovr
> 
> and the "full up" (not upgrade) version of Visual Studio .NET lists for
> $1,079.00 direct purchase from Microsoft.
> 
> So, why is Microsoft, in effect, "giving away" the .NET Framework SDK,
> (Version 1.1) "free" at one of their download sites while charging
> $1,079.00 for [virtually] the same product at another Microsoft site?
> Either I'm missing something here, or I'm totally confused, or
> something.
> 
> There has to be a "catch" here, because Microsoft doesn't "give away"
> anything for free - or anything that is not "crippled" (or a woefully
> lacking subset) of the full product.
> 
> Have you actually downloaded (and used) the ".NET Framework SDK,
> Version 1.1" product?  (We are leaning toward recommending that our
> customer buy a copy of the full up version of "Visual Studio .NET 2003
> Professional" edition.)
> 
> Alan C. Lawhon
>            
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 5:18 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual
> Basic .NET Standard 2003 ..."
> 
> 
> Hi Alan:
> 
> I am currently following the same route, a little further ahead but if
> you
> look sharp I can be seen just up the trail a bit. Following are a few of
> the
> options out there. The actual portion of the .Net application suite that
> generates the web code is ASP.Net but the full .Net studio has ASP.Net
> incorporated:
> 
> Here is the pointer to the Asp.Net webmatrix editor and appropriate
> tutorials...and it is free.
> http://www.asp.net/webmatrix/tour/section2/newconn.aspx
> 
> Sharpe Develop is IDE has Asp.Net, C#.Net and Vb.Net (Open source)...and
> it
> is free.  http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/
> 
> The SDK can be downloaded from M$...and it is free.
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9b3a2ca6-3647-4
> 070-
> 9f41-a333c6b9181d&displaylang=en
> 
> Nothing like fair pricing and a good place to start. The best OS
> platform to
> develop the coding and testing is on an XP or 2000 server as they have
> IIS
> built in and applications can test immediately.
> 
> Good luck and have fun.
> 
> HTH
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C
> Contractor/Morgan Research
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:15 PM
> To: dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> Cc: dba-AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual Basic
> .NET Standard 2003 ..."
> 
> 
> ... or just try to learn what I can from [VB.Net] books alone?
> 
> Well, the "future" has finally arrived ...  Here at work we have a
> fairly
> significant environmental database application that we have been using
> (and
> "tweaking") for the past five years.  The application, called "EDS" -
> which
> stands for "Environmental Document System" - started off as a very
> simple
> Access 97 application.  Over time, as the capabilities of the system
> grew
> and the need to provide client/server access was realized, the front end
> migrated to Access 2000 and the back end [eventually] migrated to SQL
> Server
> 2000 - which is where we are now.
> 
> Well, you know how customers are ... they are always wanting changes (or
> "something new") and that is the case with our customer.  EDS is
> becoming
> increasingly popular with users outside our immediate organization.  So
> popular, in fact, that our Government manager has requested that we "web
> enable" EDS and make EDS accessible from a web browser - such as
> Internet
> Explorer.  Gulp !!  It didn't take too much web surfing (and research)
> to
> realize that "web enabling" EDS is going to be thirsty work ...
> 
> The EDS database consists of multiple form and report objects with lots
> of
> event driven Visual Basic code.  Most of the VBA code is attached to
> command
> buttons as Click_Event() procedures.  (There's a lot of logic testing
> and
> conditional execution for business rule implementation within the VBA
> code.)
> 
> The research I have done (so far) indicates that I face a steep learning
> curve when it comes to web programming.  I'm already looking at "HTML &
> XML
> for Beginners" (book) by Michael Morrison and I have just ordered a
> couple
> of books on databases and VB.Net programming.  (I have ordered
> "Beginning
> VB.Net Databases" by Thearon Willis and "Programming Microsoft Visual
> Basic
> .NET for Microsoft Access Databases" by Rick Dobson.)  I figure these
> two
> books will give me plenty to chew on - at least initially.
> 
> The senior programmer and I have been looking on the internet for the
> proper
> .NET development tool.  Right now it looks like we will be asking our
> customer to pay for a full-up version of Visual Studio 2003 - or
> whatever
> contains the full "Professional" version of MS Visual Basic .NET.  While
> researching the various developer tool alternatives for VB.NET
> programming,
> I came across this page at Amazon.com's web site:
> 
>  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000089GKW/002-1179299-3348025
> 
> The "Standard" edition of Microsoft VB.Net [2003] appeals to me for two
> reasons: It's (relatively) affordable - less than a hundred dollars -
> and
> the "Standard" edition might be a good "learning tool" for playing
> around
> with VB.Net on my home computer.  However, the "Standard" edition
> appears to
> have a number of ... uhm ... limitations.  (Look at Frank Spillman's
> "Roadblocks, Roadblocks" reader review in the above link.)
> 
> I would be grateful if some of the folks on this list who have actually
> done
> some web programming (especially with VB.Net) could offer advice and
> opinions with respect to the "Microsoft Visual Basic .NET Standard 2003"
> [web] development tool.  Basically, I'm wondering if the "Standard"
> edition
> has enough capability to serve as a useful "learning tool" - or is it so
> "crippled" that I would be better off simply reading .NET books?
> 
> Thanks in advance ...
> 
> Alan C. Lawhon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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